 I think so, but check the website, that's the best way to do it. I had a conversation with the producers who organized all this and figured it all out with the building. So that was, I was just having a quick conversation. I wanted to know about you guys, you know, just to give a couple of weeks for our, because Monday we're out of time. Nothing. Awesome. I feel like, just for some kind of sake. So this is the 11th event. This is watch and work with the lobby of the public theater. I'm still in my parks. And we are going to, for the next hour or so, we're going to make a play together. It's also, or mostly really, a working class. Most people here are writers. And so it's a makeshift free writing class in the lobby of the public theater. I like to say it's just like Shakespeare in the park, but it's not Shakespeare, and it's not in the park. But it's free. And we're here for you, we're here to cheer you on and get you going, or restarted or helping you to continue to work. And we do that by this. First we work together for 20 minutes to create the action of the play. If you will. We work together for 20 minutes, and then we create the dialogue of the play together in which you ask me questions about your creative process, your writing process, where you're stuck, any questions about the business aspect of writing, anything, anything. And we will find an answer or a picture if I can know what we're talking about. So if you'd like to, you guys here who want me to go to the theater, you can just ask me and I'll repeat the question. Right, Brian? Repeat the question, Brian. We'd all appreciate it. Right. And those of you out in the interwebs, Caroline will tell you how to get in touch with us. You can then tweet us through questions on Twitter to the handle at Watch Me Work, SLP, with the hashtag HowlRound and the hashtag New Play. I don't know how to do this. Okay, so we're going to work for 20 minutes. It's a prop. It used to work. It used to be a work of the prop, but now it's just a decorative thing. So 20 minutes of action, and now we're going to do the dialogue. So those of you who have questions about your work, your creative process, ask me. It's so nice. I had a thought. I was emailing one of our producers, Trent, while I was supposed to be working. I stopped to email him on my phone, because maybe we'll go up to Memorial Day and then take a hiatus for a couple of weeks after with Memorial Day. We can do that sort of thing. I think about that. We'll take a poll. Somebody like, you know, a lot of them won't be here the next couple of weeks, and take a break now. Anyway, questions about your work, your creative process? Hi, Crystal. How's it going? I'm just going to say hi. You don't have to. No, I have lots. Oh, you do? Yeah. Oh, me. Hi, Joe. Hi. I guess... Oh, I've been tweening. If you didn't know. Oh, that was cute. Yeah. Oh, I know why now. I didn't know. I was like Crystal. Oh, you were like, yeah. That's cute. That's brilliant. That's brilliant. I've probably figured it out. Perfect. Oh, perfect. Oh, I see. That's what you should be. So, okay. So now your questions are making a different kind of sense. Yeah. And so your answers are kind of making a different kind of sense. Right. Because I didn't know about the process. Yeah. But it makes sense because I think it was spoken in almost a general sense. Right. Right. And so I picked up some stuff. Oh, good. Good, good, good. So just going through the process. I don't know how to try. But we talked about, when I was last year, you said to simplify and tell the story to myself. So, right. Because you were writing one draft in a light way and one draft in a heavy way. Yeah. And you were thinking of combining them. Right. Maybe integrating them. Right. So talk about telling the story to yourself. I'm just repeating what we're doing. Yeah. And then I realized, oh my gosh, that's what my daughter does in school. She writes, but she simplifies and kind of says, okay, this is what happened, this is what happened. She has to do hers, but for school. And I'm like, maybe I should just go to third grade. Right. This is, oh, did you figure it out? Yes. This is actually third grade all over again. Right. Right. But you realize, right, that's what they do. That's what we do when we learn how to tell stories. Right. This is what happened, this is what happened. And you're first to say your daughter does that. Right. Yes. But it turned out that, doing that, I wasn't clear about one of the parts. Oh, yeah. So I kind of had to step, take a few steps back. That's why we asked you to simplify. Yeah. And a lot of times we are having difficulty because there's a part that's not clear. Right. So we need to simplify. So this is what happened in this, then this, then this. Kind of get basic. You realize, oh, I don't even understand what goes on there. Yeah. So, which brought me back to those issues with the questions that I was asking. Right. Based on dialogue and character. And then I realized that, you know, from the very beginning when I first started coming here, to now, both of the characters have changed. They've evolved in height because, you know, it's been a long time. Right. I learned, we talked with Lisa to let them speak. Right. And what I was meant by the height in language was that he was very, it was like contemporary Shakespeare almost. And I didn't know if it was like one of the notes. But then you also said that, I forgot to fall in love at him. He said the love was warm and love was, you know, nice. And I forgot all about that part. And I'm like, that's a whole idea to play. And so I kind of was able to. Roll my whole head. I'm not gonna roll my eyes. I'm just gonna roll my head. I fell upon some discoveries about why he speaks the way he speaks. And I'm finding a warm side. And now his words justify why he speaks the way he speaks. Right. So. Right. Thank you. That's really good because Crystal was tweeting in last week and she was talking. She was the one who said, I'm writing this love scene. And I'm like, do that because the language feels elevated. And I was like making fun of her. I know it's her. I was making fun of her going, girl, you know about love, like that. And now I'm like totally making fun of you. But what she says now is that she's writing the love scene. I want to get some scene, which is kind of the same thing. And she had forgotten that it was about love. And we do that a lot in our writing. We forget the specifics of what it is we're writing about. We have all these other things we're trying to do. And we forget, duh, it's about someone wanting to get with somebody else. That's the basic of the scene, right? Yeah. So remember that it's helpful and then other things can come. Yeah. But I mean, just in within that part, I mean, he just, he kind of comes in. That's just what he is. Right. Well, from the experience, from the time that she's first on him when he didn't speak much to now. He said he seemed very, like, expected online. You always comment. Right. It was like, why is he always talking about life and how love is, and why is he always talking about it, you know? But it was like, there's something that happens from their eyes to that point when they meet again where it seems like that's just who he is now. Okay. How he speaks. Right. And also accepting her character for who they are. Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I'm very interested in what she has to say, Justin. Just accept her for who she is. And then much attention to her character. Yeah. Yay. This is what you're doing. I know. Well, next time, we'll guess it at you. Everybody in mind. Oh, it's not just Crystal. It's Crystal. Okay. So anybody else? Yes, Justin. How ought I to approach a project that's going to require quite a lot of research? Yeah. How ought you approach a project that's going to require a lot of research? Quite a lot. Yeah. Quite a lot, which is more than a lot. Yeah, which it's one quite more than a lot if we're using the language system. Yeah. It's one quite more than a lot. If we're using the English system. Yes. Okay. Okay. You're just going over my head. I would say it's an effing s-load. Yeah. As we would say on the corner right over there, it's an effing s-load of research, of effing research. Yeah. Yeah. Great. And the tricky thing, Jess, which is a really good question, how ought I to approach having to do a ton of research for something that you're writing? It's a good question because often we get lost in the research. It's been like 20 years researching. You know, and kind of, and start telling ourselves kind of what you're telling yourself now, which is probably true. I don't know enough about this to write about it. Fair enough. Okay. It might be true now, but that is a snowball kind of thing. And then we get trapped in front of the snowball. I don't know enough. I keep running forever. Because I'll never know enough about this subject. So I would say do you know, you don't have to tell us right now, but do you know the story that you want to tell that will come up with this research? Yes. Yes. It's sort of... You don't have to tell us. I would suggest not telling us the story, but you know like this happened and this happened and this happened and then in the end this kind of thing happened. Yeah. Great. Okay. So what you're going to research is the specifics of the details. Yeah. Right. Sort of things like, because it would be set in the 1930s. Right. And I don't know a whole lot about the 1930s. Right. The sort of trouble is that I finished the previous thing that I was working on. Right. Which I mentioned last time. Yeah. So I'm shopping around for a new idea. Right. Basically. And this thing is exciting. And when I think about it, I get ideas for things that could happen. Right. Like I thought, oh maybe there could be a scene in which they go for a drive. Right. And then I sort of thought, well could they afford to go for a drive in the 1930s? And then I thought, how much did gas cost in the 1930s? And then I thought, how much money would this character be making in the 1930s? And then I realized I have to do a ton of research. Okay. I would say, I would say that is not a ton. And I would say, be aware that you're already thinking that you don't know enough. See, you almost know everything about what you need to write about. You need to do some research. Okay. Because finding out how much money he's going to make a week. And that's like five minutes on Google. Right. Yeah. What's his job? Where did he work? Where did he work? Yeah. That's less than five minutes. Okay. So you have like, let's be generous, a week's worth of research. This is not a ton. It's a week. Yeah. You see what I'm saying? So, since you're already done with the story, you've got to do about a week's worth of research about how much a car costs, how much gas costs, maybe it's a friend's car, maybe it's his boss's car. Maybe it's his boss. Is it so? Return for PD. Or PD. So it costs him nothing, except trying to work on time. There's no research. I'm saying alright. It's like, make it about the characters. You don't really need the specifics of 1930. Yeah. You need to know more about the relationships between the characters. And that is going to give you the specifics. Most of the specifics. What kind of car? That's the research moment. Right? Yeah. Because you want to know where to look while I go. Yeah. So, do you see how I just did that? When you get specific about the story, you find out that you need to know you need a lot less research and your thank you. Because it's about the characters relating to each other. It's always about that. And people who pepper their work with specific, it's like name-dropping at a cocktail party. Who cares? You know what I say? But we want to know the interactions between the characters. So, go and look up. Are they in America in the 1930s? Yeah. Okay. And where in America? I'm not sure. I think it's New England. Great. So, New England in the 1930s. So, kind of pick the town, or pick the general area, Maine, or Boston, or whatever, whatever, Vermont, whatever. And Vermont in the 1930s. Not that I just want to know. Boom! That's like an hour of research. That's all you need. Yeah. It started. You write your first draft. Then you'd be fine. Oh, well, I really need to know more about, he was a carpenter, and he made houses, you know, where he was, and he did fine joinery. How do I get to know more about joinery? And then that's a whole, that's a... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. A lot of times, you spend a lot of time doing research instead of... Right. Right. Because you think, yeah, I'm not, I always think about it when I came 30s. I better do research, because all those scholars from the 1930s are going to call me on them, you know, my stuff isn't real. You know, it's not specific. I did a feminism from the war in the 7th to 1860s, and I, we did an event up at Harvard. Harvard. And I sat on stage in the, you know, in the 1860s, and I sat on stage between Henry Lewis Gates, Skip Gates, Scholar, you see the horns sound before they say these guys, we say these guys names. And on the other side was Eric Foner, famous historian, and there I was sitting between them, and it was a talk back. And so the audience functioned all about the research that I'd done, and I was like, ah man, I didn't do much, I don't know. And black, like you guys are laughing now, and they both were like, what was pretty good actually, because it was about the people. And not about the specifics of what kind of boots, how you, you know, put a sole boot in the 1860s. It wasn't about that. If it had been about that, I wouldn't have done that research. It wasn't. It was about relationships. So I did a fair amount of research, but not 20 years ago. And they had that song. It's not cool. Very, very good question. Just remember it's about the people, about the people, about the people. Anybody else? Just repeat what you said, because you're so awesome. Go ahead. No, I done a lot of writing, you know, about the 19-20s. Okay. And here you go. Carol's done a lot of writing. I'm just going to hear you out here. Carol's done a lot of writing about the 1920s. And how? When you're, while you're doing your other stuff, just have a paper handy just to write down any questions that's coming to you. That's great. While you're doing, while you're writing, while you're moving ahead, and you can go into the research afterwards when you know what the story is. That's a great idea. That's a great idea. Or if you could... Hold on a pause. While you're moving forward with your writing, right, keep a pad of paper handy and write down your questions that are specific to the 19-20s or the 19-30s or whatever. Yes. If you can always go back and... Yes. And if you can find people who are alive then. Go to Google Play. Research. That's the best. Go to Wikipedia. Wikipedia. Ask them questions. Wikipedia. Sure. Sure. But that's a whole other... You see, oh my God, someone who's alive in 1920. Great. I'm going to talk to them. Gosh, they're only available on Tuesday. We're talking about how to move forward. Yeah, okay. If it works out, great. Right. The chances are that you're going to use that did not work out. I'm thinking of a poet who's beer aunt Sue Ellen and she'll tell me all about... Surely. But I can only see her in January. Because, you know, she's in Hawaii for the rest of the year. So I'll wait. You don't know how many times I've heard those things. And sabotage them. Oh, okay. You went and you hung out. You listened in? Yeah. I have a question. You're allowed to do that? Yes. They don't have lawyers there and contracts? And most of it was family. Oh, family. Oh, okay. Okay. So that's a good... They love to talk. That's a good... Sure, sure, sure. You could... You could... Obviously just do what you're writing first. Yes. But that's a great idea. That's a great idea. So there are people who are living that you can go talk to which is great. There's writing, and while you're writing, Charles suggests keeping that pad of paper with questions or running tab of questions. You can figure out later. Sure, that's great. Great, great, great. Great. He had had so many drafts. Ryan was Ryan, right? He was Ryan. It was the other... Our Ryan, our second Ryan. Yes. Yes. You said start taking pieces from here and pieces to start off. Right. You have to be in it. Right. And I had put my play aside for a while. Right. And like you said, I realized that the story is... and then taking it down and just reading it. The story is... Right. It's all changed. It's all changed. Very good. And... I remember... That's just for me because I just wanted everybody here to listen to something about what Ryan was talking about. We were talking last week about Ryan with his different drafts and how to go to the next draft and how... that it would be... I know it's Rachel Lee's book part. It's a fabulous... Rachel Lee is having a fabulous book part. He saved that. It was so many times. He saved Rachel Lee from talking about it. He could close up the door. That would be great. But so, we're talking about getting that next draft and how... I mean, sometimes you could pick and pick from this draft and that draft, but that could be overwhelming. Sometimes you could just start anew. So Lynn's saying she's ready to do that and she knows the story isn't right yet. So... When you talk to Crystal, I remember thinking about that about all the incentives of what is the story of Ryan walking around and asking yourself. So I come up with the story and it seems to me... Oh, great. Right. But I guess my question is then how do you... You just jump in again. Right. Right. But you do. Right. So Lynn says... So she knew that she had to sort of find the story. Like we were talking about, Crystal keeps it simple. And so she's done that. And now what do you do? You just jump in again. In what form do you have the keep it simple version of your story? In what form? What does it look like? It looks like... This is the story. What does it look like on the page? Is it paragraph? Is it a two page essay or whatever? Yeah. Like paragraphs? Like this? Like that. Great. Okay. Good. So we're going to jump in. And this is how you're going to jump in. Like you're going to... Stones across the river. Bullet points. Outline. Right? So for example, we're going to... This is what happens. Right? And this happens. See? Not a lot. Not a big footprint there. Not a lot. Not... Just boom. This is what happens. And then this. And you're crossing the river. You tell yourself your whole story. And I'll say it by the way. Outline. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Bullet points. Bullet points. We talked about cars. We talked about index cars for right. Because it needs to be grounded. Like that ant halfway. That's showing ant pathways in right now. The public theater. We'll pull it up there. Anyway. It's good. It's good, by the way. And the other question I have is... I think that's your routine. Research. So anyway, so that's... So bullet points. Outline bullet points. You can use cars. You can use index cars. Okay. If you want. Okay. Good. Next question. So research. Yes. You know this over a period of time. That is safe from the early 60s to maybe the mid 70s. Right. One of the characters is... Right. So I was doing some research of the songs. And I wanted to have like the songs of the 50s. And 60s. Right. They weren't like hits. Right. But songs that were, you know. Right. And there was a song called Panjai. Uh huh. You know, which was a very popular song. Okay. So I picked it up. Right. And the information was about Panjai. It was written by... Right. And where it hit on the billboard drive. Right. And then it said it was very controversial. Because the song... It was controversial at one point. Because people thought it was about masturbation. Okay. Now, that's a lot of research. I mean, that's what's feeding it. Right. Right. But that kind of information is something that's researched. That somebody would do today. But at that time... I don't need all that information. Do you understand what this is going to be? It depends what you're doing. It depends on the story. You know, if the person was a... Again, so let's talk about all the research that she's doing for her project. It's set in the 60s and the 70s. She also includes some of the music that was specific to that time. And she looked at the song and she found a whole bunch of information. Which might have been useful. But it might be depending on the character you're writing. If you just want a song or some lyrics from a song, you know, that's one thing. And if you just want something in more detail like that, if oh, it's a controversial thing, you know, then that would be... Sure. It depends on what you want. It depends on where you're going. You see what I mean? I mean, if you want songs from that era, you don't even have to really do research. You know, I mean, you know, you know... I mean, so there's a... There's a whole spectrum. You can do research a lot or none. But I'm... So outline bullet points. Okay. Bullet points out by... You're... I mean, you're computer-made. I don't know about that. It's that air... Airbook. Yeah, it's that... Someone's calling you, I think. On your watch. Oh, you have a watch. That's not a thing. So you have a... Someone came to me. Someone came to me. Yeah, they did. It's very nice. Yeah. For example, I just get a song from the sixties. Right? Then I could just look up... Look up minor hits from the sixties. Boom, there's a list. I don't have to click on any one of them. I just... Oh, I don't know any songs from the sixties. Whatever. Blah, blah. He knows everything about it, who recorded it, who wrote it. Okay, that's... See, then that comes in. We just don't need a character passing by the park, singing a song. We have a kid who knows... You can quote the chapter and verse of the song, after hearing only two notes. So you need... You can quote the character, can quote chapter and verse, meaning recording artists, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, of a song after hearing only two notes. What do I need? I don't need just the lyrics of a song, right, Crystal? What do I need? I need who recorded it, when, who was the drummer on the song, whatever, who played lead guitar, whatever. That's a lot of information. It's specific to the character. If I just needed some lyrics from a character strolling by the park, it's very little research. You understand? So I'm not just doing research for the sake of doing research. I'm doing it to provide the character with some specifics for a dialogue or a character development. It's not Crystal. From At Telling Our Stories, she says, my new play I'm working is an adaptation from a collection of short memoirs that I edited. I've studied Annan DeBeer Smith's work as a guide to work with these personal narratives. I wonder about the structure and dramatic arc with creating tension in the stage play adaptation. So you are working on looking at an adaptation of short memoirs that I edited, and you're going to do them, can we say like Annan DeBeer, like Annan DeBeer Smith's work? Is that kind of interpreting? And you wonder how to create tension in the stage play adaptation. So to answer that question, I'm going to pretend that I'm Annan DeBeer Smith. I think the answer might be the same way you create tension in any story. You're going to feel the groove of the story or story since it sounds like it's a collection, many different people talking about, is there something working? No, it didn't say. Many different people telling those stories from the book of their lives, and you want to find common threads. And so the audience is going to be leaning and wondering, wow, wow, what happens next? What happens next? Things will accumulate. If you know Annan DeBeer Smith, there's a simple question after Annan DeBeer and a strange question answered. The same way you create direct tension in anything, it's not different just because you're in a series of monologues. It is not different. You want the monologue to accumulate, you want the story to build, you want if you want an intermission, you want also like Danny Hock does, there's so many people now who do this one person show brilliantly. Annan DeBeer, Danny Hock, many, and Lemon, I can't remember the name of the show, it was here a few years ago, Lemon had a beautiful one-man show. You want the story to accumulate, even if it's not your story, you want the narrative to accumulate, and that's basically it. And you can learn that from anything to read and reread Annan's work, Danny Hock's work, also any well written play is going to teach you how to just make a story accumulate, but keep your set word. That might not be specific enough, but maybe it'll show up next week. This is what I really meant. You can also finish back with more specifics if that was not helpful enough. Thank you for treating me. It kind of goes up. I can pick you back in off of that. And my experience with the bullet points is that I saw my therapist today, she said you sound a little manic, and I was like, hey, you're telling me, girl. I'm like, oh, I'm a little ungrounded, but I feel like with the bullet points I'm still having a hard time coloring in between the lines, like I'm still bleeding into other bullet points, but I keep revisiting them, and I'm just sort of like vomiting out the story, and I know, and I'm not like you said it, I know the story. I keep looking at those bullet points, even though I'm not like hitting them, I'm following, I'm letting the story accumulate or trying to, and then I think once I just feel like I've gotten it all out, and looking at those bullet points, and then to print out the content, I think it'll help me fill in the gaps or take away what's not needed, or I feel like, I mean, things like that, but you give me the advice that I'm really, really trying to go with the bullet points, but I'm still feeling so, I can't, I can't stay within one bullet point, but I know it's within the story, and so I'm sort of trusting that, that. Well you're using many bullet points, right? Yes. I'm finding that the bullet points is like I can't quite get one thing for a bullet point. That's okay, you can make two or three or four, you can do that, but the look on the page are bullet points. Do you understand why? It's not a paragraph. It is a one line. You can even number them, one, two, three, four. I recently turned it out by a person that I'm working on. The scenes were one, two, three, four, five, six, seven. I don't know if that's how it's going to be at the end, but it's just easy reference. And think of, if you can, close your eyes, close your eyes. Boom, the biggest scene that happens on stage in that scene. Right? I mean, that, that, just do it once, so. And I can imagine, the biggest scene that happens on stage right now. The biggest scene that happens on stage. That's a good bullet point. You know, like, he leaves, he's in the war. He comes home. That's the, that would be part one to the movie. All the episode that happens. Of course. You know, I didn't, so those are the bullet points for the plays. For the individual, I mean, all the book. They have a series of bullet points. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, I think, yeah. I think I broke it up. The way I was using bullet points, I wasn't using. I wasn't approaching. I was approaching the sections of time. Not, not like the actions, not like the actions on the time. I was approaching like college, like hospital. Oh, actions. I was, I think maybe I need to be a little more specific, but also a little, but also a little bit more specific of the actions, but not, like. Like your days did. You, you, you woke up. You got, you put your feet on the floor. You stood up. Oh, you're back. I know. You got so much in your sleep. Well, you know. I hope I wore out. But you know, right? You give me a, you know, and then, you know, you drink your juice and then go out the door. Those are bullet points for the morning. See? Okay. Again, think of stones crossing the river. This happens. This has stones. This has stones. Like those round stones, those are the bullet points on the page. The water is rushing. There's a lot going on. They're sitting. They're octopus. They're called whales. Yeah. So, under those, would you say like, would you say those bullet points would be the big bullet point would be like my morning and then those would be the bullet points to my morning and then I would, if I have stuff to elaborate under those bullet points to elaborate under those bullet points. Sure. Sure. But we said break it down. But morning, noon, night. Like, 2014. Break it down. Spring. Summer. Winter. Fall. Break it down. January. February. March. April. Break it down. January 1st. January 2nd. January 3rd. So I want you to say big ones. I think that's, I think that, I think I was using big ones. I mean, I was, I didn't get specific under them. So, that's why I think other things are bleeding. Okay. That's okay. You have as many as you want. And I like to have only a second. No, we gotta have as many as one. But I used the shape of them You're trying to keep the language tight and contain as if they were all on a flash phone. Yeah. Okay, if you want to get started, then share it out with me, you know what I mean? Thank you. Did that make sense? No, yeah. I mean in her language, or like how I'm writing it, I feel like unintentionally, I can like associate it to like Venus. Great. Great. Great. Yes. All right, Venus. That's hard. That's hard. I mean officially. Yeah. This happened. This happened. It's been played. Yeah. Yeah. From the start of the game. And yeah, um, this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened, and this happened. The sawing of the barns, the colt cándol lived in Santa Fe. She and the worker of North Carolina, the forest, flyonet and more, exactly the You know, the Santa Claus comes in and says, yeah, what the fuck? And then, you know, whatever. Right? Yeah. Everyone. I have a suggestion that you can either do or not, if it's attractive to you. I hate outlining. I'm just not very good at it. So what I eventually figured out to do that seems to appeal to me more than doing bullet points on a page is that I would do it with post-it notes on a wall. So I would sort of make, like, and they have to be, I'm only allowed to do them in Sharpie because I have to be concise about it. Otherwise, I go into tons of detail that I don't really need. And I write one event on a post-it note. It can be a scene, it can be a thing that I know has to happen, but I don't know how to write it yet. It could be a thing that I want to have happen, but it's not necessarily, and it's just like a series of events. And I arrange them in a line on the wall. And then that's great because if you want to reorder things, you can just do it. And you can see it on your wall like that. And then if you want to get specific under one post-it note, then you can put another one and another one and another one with details. Like, you could have a thing that says morning routine. That's like the big one at the top. And then you could have things like wake up, put feet on the floor, back hurts, make coffee, spill, cream, and you could list it all under the big heading one. And then it doesn't feel quite as though each of the bullet points is taking up enough space to be no longer a valid bullet point. And then you can also come up with ideas, and if you don't know where to put them, you can just stick them anywhere. You can color code it, you can do things with it. You can take pictures of it so that you can rearrange it and not lose anything because you've all got phones now. And also, if you decide you don't want to do something, the feeling of taking a post-it note off the wall and crumpling it and throwing it away is extremely satisfying. So, yeah. Thank you. This is great. For some reason, though, we suggested cards to Ryan. He's not going to card, so I don't know what. I don't know what. If he might have like paper, I might have not gotten the staples or something. I'm not sure. Maybe you like the sticky post-it notes. But it's like a marrying of the index and not the date. No, go for it. But whatever, you need space and all those kinds of things. I don't know what this space is for. That's a wonderful idea. It is actually. OK. No, it does sound nice. Thank you. You can see the slider or you can not see it. It's just called. But do something, right? Do something and continue. And again, that's great. More, more. And the trickling out, Ryan, you see, we say it, you see it like I like it a little bit. Let us reframe those things that we say those things about them. Because actually, you just explained a method of outlining that sounded like you were good at it. Outlining is a bad graph. I don't know why. I'm not sure why. And it's very effective. Whether you put pieces of paper on the wall or put pens in a bulletin board or post-it notes or index cards that you carry around your hand and put your pocket on the subway or bullet points, if you don't want to write things down on paper. Outlining is very helpful. If you find that you're needing some kind of structure that's very helpful. I mean, you know, the open road was an outline. Follow the open road. That's an outline we're talking about, right? There it is. We're in time? All right, anybody else have a great question? They'll be really sad if we don't get two. OK, we're really quick with it. Yeah, so we're out with us. If you know how you want to begin and how you want to end, how much do you have to give in? Or what is the compromise between the story writing itself to the end or having your end be the way it is? Like, if you know how you want to begin and if you know how you want to end, what is your question? What if when you're writing, as you're writing, it's hard to get there? Or there's another road that you don't want, is that it? Yes, yes. It seems like it's gelling in a different way. Right, so you know how you want to begin. You know how you want to end. And you start out on your open road, and you find you're not going to OS after all. You're going to Saskatchewan, and you're like, there was, yeah, I want to go to OS. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you have to just go to Saskatchewan, because that's what the characters take you. Sometimes if you figure out, I really want to go to OS, it's very important to me, how do I get to OS? And that's Dorothy's whole thing, how do I get to Canvas? So, right? Yeah. OK. So you're not trying to come to Dorothy. We'll talk about it more. OK. OK, and so maybe we will do next week, then the next week, and then take a hiatus starting Memorial Day. Better for people, yes? We'll take a hiatus, and then we come back for the summer. Yes, let's put some little hiatus in here as I chat around the universe. Oh, yeah, you're jetting now. Around the universe. Yes. OK. Thank you so much for coming. Yeah. Thanks.