 Thank you so much for being here. I am Gaye Three Siva. I'm currently in Olone lands in Oakland, California and I'm a moderator today. We're discussing the topic of investing for equity with an amazing set of panelists today. We're still waiting for Janet. But first, some logistics. We're all new to this platform. So please forgive us if there are any technical glitches. We hope at the end of the session, we'll have about two to three minutes, two to three questions to take. So please, as the session goes along, type your questions into the chat box and we might be able to read it out later at the end for the panelists if we have the time. So yes, so I'd like to start by saying we know precisely how to trace how we got here. Here meaning this inequitable state that we're in. We can talk about colonialism. We can talk about occupations of indigenous lands and people. We can talk about private ownership, capitalism. But systems were built, policies were enacted, stacked on and stacked on over one another. And fast forward to today, we have three billionaires with more wealth than half of America. And the world's richest 1% has more than twice as much wealth than 6.9 billion people. And all this is not new. And I'm sure to anyone in this panel or anyone joining this panel, but it's worth repeating I think that we live in a system that benefits and we warn those with extreme wealth who have accumulated the fortunes on the backs of people around the world, who work for wages and under different conditions. And in addition, this pandemic is exposing the systemic fractures of our current financial and economic systems. It's unveiling access, accumulation of capital in the hands of people. The realities of what's at stake, of unprotected people around the world, curfews and quarantines are impacting groups and communities around the world differently. Majority of people around the world, many who are part of informal economy due to the curfews and quarantines, they can't go out, they can't sell, they can't make a living. And this is a product and symptom of a long-standing systemic infection of injustice and inequity. So how do we get here? And how do we change? This is what we'll discuss today with this amazing panel, which I have whom I have the pleasure and privilege of introducing. And Janet is still not here. So I'll introduce Lisa and Crystal. Let's start with Crystal. Crystal is the executive director of Eurista, a native CDFI intermediary offering financial products and development services exclusively to native CDFI communities. Crystal has worked with native communities for more of a professional career, spending 20 years working in the native and rural economic development field. Still waiting for Janet, but Lisa, Lisa Mensa is president and CEO of Opportunity Finance Network, OFN, the nation's leading network of CDFIs. Lisa worked with President Obama as the Undersecretary of Agriculture for Rural Development. And before that was the founding executive director of the Initiative of Financial Security at the Aspen Institute. And when Janet joins us, I will go ahead and introduce her now and she will say hi when she joins. The other panelist who we're still waiting for is Janet Moryu, executive director of Kenya Community Development Foundation who she has for 30 years of experience in the global nonprofit sector. She's the executive director of the Kenya Community Development Foundation, the first community foundation in East and Central Africa where she leads an indigenous foundation that promotes community development. And I am Gaye 3-Diva from Thousand Currents and director of the Buen Viber Fund, an investment fund that provides capital to grassroots groups in the global south doing leading work in building our next economy. So thank you all and thank you amazing panelists. I, it's a privilege and an honor to have you here today and to be with you. I would like to start with a big question, how? And Lisa, we'll get you to start with this question of how do we get here and how do we change? Thank you, Gaye 3 and welcome Janet too. So we did it. Yep, the technology will be the death of us all. So I'm so glad Janet's here because I think this how question for equity is an important one to have a global context for. And Janet will be able to speak for beyond the shores of the US. But I think when we're imagining tackling equity and inequities with money, we have to look back at how we did get to a system in the US. And as Sky 3 has kindly introduced me, I get to lead a powerful network of disruptors, of CDFIs who wanna take money and use it to change old system. And I believe we got here by literally centuries of an economy that basically had markets and structures that benefited the most successful and the most in power. And while America can claim fairly to have given so many people a shot at progress, it also left so many people behind. And I think what is powerful about this moment and I wanna speak to 2020 is that we're finally confronting the systems that help people back. We're no longer blaming people for their poverty, for their inability to move forward for the jobless rates, for the deep levels of climate damage that we have done. We are acknowledging systems. And I think when we acknowledge systems, we go to the laws, the structures, the things that kept disinvestment out of communities and we go to what allowed people to build wealth over time. So I think I'll let others join this discussion how we got here. But I think this is where we have to look at systems. Markets, laws, just go for those two and understand that the patterns of disinvestment that we have seen in the US have evolved because of markets and systems. And those worked for those in power and we who are disruptors are often fixing systemic injustice. Not just, you know, we make one loan at a time but we're attacking deeper systems. So I'll stop there, guy three. And I think you're still on mute for some reason. I am on mute. Thank you, Lisa. No, that's a powerful introduction to what we're gonna talk about today. And you know, I think everyone on this panel and also probably a big part of the audience agree that systemic change is what we need. I would like to invite each of you maybe starting with Crystal and then moving on to Janet and then Lisa maybe we can wrap up with you. What, how do you define systems change and what are you encountering in your work that is moving us in that direction? Well, I would say in a way in terms of work that we represent and capitalize and provide capacity building all over the United States, Alaska and Hawaii tribal nations that have been disenfranchised honestly since going in and began. So in looking at how do we change this? One of the main prognosis in working with our native community essentially is bringing power back to the people giving them the resources and the capital that they need to rebuild or reinvigorate their communities. We believe innately native people in its marginalized communities have armed with appropriate resources. They have the stewardship. They know what their community needs. They just need the resources to be able to envision that community. So what we do to change that number one capital makes huge differences by directly investing in these communities so they build private sector home ownership and build upwards of matters to financial mobility which many native communities have never seen. So really in changing this it's changing the paradigm of capital. It's changing the paradigm of resources and giving those to the people to the communities and to those grassroots leaders that really know how to implement this change. I think one thing that you'll find with marginalized communities across the United States and across the globe when we have individuals that are willing to help more so it's what they can do to or for us rather than what they can do with us. So when we look at changing that paradigm of what the relationship looks like and taking that out of a transaction and really giving a voice to the people and communities we have the answers to our community ills for lack of a better word, we just need the resources. So how we change that paradigm with the CDFI industry or WESA itself is providing those resources, providing that capital to where we can see longstanding systematic change. Thank you, Chris. Janet? Yeah, thank you. And I'm sorry that I got some technical challenges. Yeah, I identify with not most of what my colleagues have gone before I've said. It's true, we've been from a very uneven ground and even here I come from working for the Kenya community and the Latin nation. And one of the global partners for Texas Global actually one of the partners that are based in Africa and in Kenya in specific. And one of the things we find is that a lot of communities end up being disadvantaged because of various reasons. Sometimes, sometimes just certain things that have happened over time and all kinds of challenges. And sometimes just access to information, not knowing how to come out of that terrible situation that one finds themselves in. And with that, I may give the example of one of the ways we've dealt with this is just increasing access to technology, for example, through our partnership and our relationship with Texas Global. We work with a lot of non-profits, many of them with very small budgets. Actually, many times more than 85% with budgets that are less than a million dollars. So their fare is small organizations but as they access technology, as they are better able to save by accessing technology that allows them to do their work, to meet their missions, they are actually able to rise up and begin to do what they have set out to do to help with some of the marginalization issues. And this is just one example. So, and from a KCDF perspective, working with communities that are really disadvantaged and trying to help them to rise up, first of all, gain confidence, get reaffirmed that they have a lot of knowledge, they have a lot of information of how they have copped over the generations and over years. And as you revamp that, build their confidence, help them identify the resources around them or they're able to leverage, whether from government or many other actors, many of them are able to rise up and begin to move beyond their limitations. So maybe I'll just mention that for now. Gayatri, you asked all of us to talk about how we are confronting systems that deliver inequity instead of equity. Yeah, that's right. And I think what both Janet and Crystal expressed is this interesting belief we have in confronting big systems at very local levels by trusting people to know what they need so deeply. And I think that's almost the most hard thing to imagine that when we're confronting huge different systems, we follow strategies that listen very close to the ground to where people are. And it's almost, it seems inconceivable that we who think about the big systems of the need on the planet to end poverty and end environmental degradation would trust interventions that are so local. But I wanna put an emphasis on that because that's exactly what the community development financial institutions field has always been about is listening local, not getting out of the challenges of our systems by some huge outside influence, that we are gonna change development by doing something to people. We're gonna change it with people. And I think that's the first principle of this. It's not that they're other systems are immaterial, of course they matter, but I think our interventions are extremely local and extremely close to the ground. And I wanna give an example of when we look at persistent poverty in the United States. And this is a phenomenon we don't like to talk about too much because it runs counter to our views of the American dream. But persistent poverty is meaning that these are areas of the country that have been deeply poor more than 20% rates of poverty for over 30 years. And these areas of our country spatially matter. Crystal spoke of native communities, indigenous communities. So many of those are rated in these census tracts that are persistently poor. In fact, it is a quite of a rural phenomenon. 85% of the counties in the country that are persistently poor are rural, but it isn't rural alone. It is also urban, more than 2000 neighborhoods home to over six, nearly 7 million people are in persistently poor neighborhoods. So this was one of my excitements working at the Department of Agriculture for the last administration is being able to direct resources to say, here's a huge arsenal of resources at the USDA, and saying we need to shift systems by working and targeting deeply into poor areas. And whenever you decide to target, one of the best strategies I believe is getting very close to the people who experienced this. And this is why CDFIs to me are such a good tool because we're rooted in communities and we're very close. Our financing can go right close to the jobs, the facilities, the critical infrastructure that needs to happen in these communities. But being driven by the actual core needs of people there. So I just wanted to give an answer to your question around how do we address systems with that in mind? Thank you, absolutely. And I think the big thing that's coming up for me with the sharing is the building trust. You're talking about trusting financial institutions, large groups, people with money, trusting groups on the ground to do the work that needs to be done. The question is, how do we, or my question is, how do we build that trust? How do we bridge the gap? Are there examples in your work that you can share to enlighten us to that question? Yeah. And Lisa, Janet, Crystal in that order maybe. Well, I think whenever you're talking about money or finance, it's something to have some doubt, to have some suspicion. So people give up their money with great, they should be a little distrustful. So trust is earned and trust to my belief in the CDFI field. It's where we, whether we're credit unions or community banks or loan funds or micro enterprise funds, part of the trust is seeing who's running these institutions and how they deliver, what is the impact? And I think I believe that one of the hallmarks of a strong CDFI, of a strong Community Development Financial Institutions is seeing the results of your decision, seeing why many people come to us because they've been denied credit out of another system. And I think the first way we rebuild trust is the combination of the capital we bring and the assistance we bring. We call it capital plus. And that combo is sort of the key, the secret sauce, the time, the ability to look a second look at credits. And I think that's the start to a trusted relationship, letting you in, letting you have a chance, being clear about where the money goes and being clear about impact. That's I think the foundational aspects of a system of finance you can trust. Maybe I can go. Yeah, how do you build trust? That's really interesting. And I think one of the fundamental things we found is that it is a relationship. It is not just a transaction. It's purely taking time, getting to know people, spending time with them, understanding where they are, not you judging them from where you are, but actually going out of your way to be with them, to be in their context. Until COVID work all the time involved as KCDF, Kenya Community Development Foundation, making grant to a lot of grassroots organizations, believing that they, you begin by trusting them and believing that they know their context, they know their needs, they know the things that affect and have made the communities around them. And then doing your best not to be too prescriptive about whatever help you think you wanna give. So going with an open mind yourself, and that is really tough for a lot of funders to go with an open mind to not with a prescription of what you think they need from where you are sitting, but actually as much as possible being present with them. And in that process, you get to understand what influences them, what has informed them, what affects them. And so when they write, when they propose suggestions for their grant, you are open. And in many cases, it kind of means you're being willing to understand what goes with that money. So if it is core core support, just being present, being available to provide that rather than saying, I will only pay for this, I won't pay for that, you know. And it's in that context actually that our relationship with, or our work with tech sub-global has been very valuable because a lot of those organizations were able to quickly turn around during the COVID time and use technology, maximize on it. And as I've been able to get on with their work, when a lot of other international actors were not necessarily on the ground, but they were present because they were able to reach, you know, the people that they target for their work. So I think trust is, it takes time, and it's not a one-off, it's not a hit and run. And that's one of the things we found really critical to have a long-term impact on the ground with communities and enabling them to turn around and begin to change their circumstances so that they can now write on the change that they would like to see for themselves. Say on our part, or just upon both what Lisa and Janet incorporated really in building that trust, one of the first things that I think we look at as an industry, and particularly with Awista, is meeting people, communities, and organizations where they're at. So when you're able to come first with that preview and be able to build upon the competencies of that organization, of that community, that essentially boosts trust from the ground up. And two, when you look at the business model of what we do as a CDFI industry, typically we're the financial first responders right now, we're finding in COVID, but we are the financial pillars of our community and the only outlet for capital access and resources, particularly I'm speaking of native CDFIs within tribal communities. So in looking at building trust in that measure too, we have to be very culturally sensitive and we have to embrace that. And working with, we have over 573 tribes federally recognized in the United States, each one of those tribes is intrinsically different on their culture, on their mores. So being able to maneuver in those areas with respect and with dignity and listening to community. Important, I'll give a quick grassroots example of this. I started the first nonprofit on my reservation many years ago, the Turn Mountain Band of Chippewa, North Dakota, and it was a CDFI. And when I started providing our financial education curriculum, first of all, within the CDFI Round Building Trust, our institutions never say no, we say not yet. If you're not eligible for a loan, number one, get you there. If you're willing to get there. So it doesn't matter on your credit score. So that in and of itself knowing you have a chance. It's not no, it's not yet. And we'll take you there. So I was teaching a financial literacy course and that was a prerequisite before anybody got any type of loan. It doesn't matter what you wanted within our suite of lending services. And I was going into the process of talking about a long-term and a short-term savings pool and how we can start saving for those dynamics. And I had an elder at the table in my class and she got very angry at me and she started yelling at me and she told me, you know what, you're asking me to be selfish. You're asking me to stay for myself and not look at our community. And that crystal is not as what kept us alive for 500 years. And I thought, oh my gosh, okay. I really need to meet her where she's at. And I don't give confidential information, but she was in my office because. Is that me? I don't know if I just went in or out with my story. Hopefully you're able to hear the audio. But that's a really good example, I feel. You're back, Crystal, but could you maybe repeat the last piece that you said before you said you're back because we missed a little bit of that. Right, so in the end, the elder was telling me I was asking her to be selfish. I was asking her to save, not assist the community. Her particular circumstance was she was the matriarch of her family. She had a death in the family. She ended up going to predatory lending institutions to get bus tickets to bring everybody home and we were helping her out of that financial mess. And so in flipping this script, I told her, I'm not asking, we're not asking you to be selfish, but if you had saved, you could have more. So in just changing how she looked at that and with that, if you had $5,000 in a bank account, you would have been able to get twice as many bus tickets and you wouldn't be paying 1,000% interest on a predatory loan. So it's really just having the courage to stand in these places and being uncomfortable meeting people where they're at and figuring out a way to build their personal capacity and financial capacity. Thank you, thank you. We'll say I next kind of bring back to the topic at hand, investing. So how do you see investments as a tool to challenge or reduce inequities? And specifically who has access, who hasn't? Yeah, that big question maybe. Lisa, I see you nodding, so I'm gonna start with you. It's so important, I three. I've just, I started life as a banker and it was very, no one predicted this. They thought I would be working on refugee issues. And I said they're kind of the same because investors have power. This is how we accrue, we make choices about where the stores of money go and this allows others to move forward whether it's in lodging or in industry or in commercial endeavor, small businesses. And so how do I see investing? I see that we have an industry in the community development financial industry. People may not know that in the US there's over $222 billion under management, 222 by the certified CDFI industry. It's over a thousand certified CDFI. 60 of them are native that are been certified by our treasury. About half of them are loan funds. And so when I think about investing, changing the dynamics, I think about who is coming in to provide capital to these spigots. Robert Smith had started referring the lead, the founder of VISTA Equity Partners has referred to us as now the capillaries of the US financial system. The smaller veins that are needed to get blood into the full system, capillaries. I love that image of us. And I think about who is coming to invest in us because we are conduits to that job. In broadband and fiber optic cable, they talk about the last mile. Everybody can make money when it's a tightly dense set of users, but that last mile getting way out, particularly in rural areas, is the part where it's hard. So I think of the CDFI industry as the capillaries who can reach deep. So when I think about the investors changing things, I think about who's taking a bet on a system that's tailor made for getting money out to the areas that are struggling the most, that are furthest from the easiest investments that the market will always reward. And that's why I think investing in this sector is so vital and so potentially disruptive. We sort of had three waves of investors. I used to work at the Ford Foundation and that was I think foundations and philanthropy, sort of the first wave, 80s, 90s. Then we kind of had a bank wave, CRA qualified many of our institutions for investment. That was another wave, largely debt. And I feel we're at the brink of a next wave. And this is why Socap is so important and why new corporate wealth is so important. And we've just had Google invest with us. And I think it's such a breakthrough because it's money that came from the trader's side, from the CFOs and was willing to take time and low return, 1% 10 years and let us be the intermediaries, the conduit of that money. We were five times oversubscribed in our network of people wanting to do small business lending with the Google dollars. And I think that is so vital to see how, I think we have a capillary network so that if you're interested as an investor in really moving money out through the capillaries into the parts of the economy that just don't get reached by easy market delivery or when they do, it's often rapacious. It's the wrong kind of reach. So I would say guy three, for me, the investor story is one of, let's use the tools we know, let's join it with the networks we know and let's do it on terms that can actually disrupt what the kind of poverty we see in this country. I can go, yeah. I was going to say that in my own context, especially here in Kenya and I believe it's true for most of Africa, it helps very much to understand that terrain. And it in a sense goes back to the question of how did we get there? And there are a lot of areas that were neglected. The accessibility was a problem or culture. The culture in different areas has marginalized certain groups of people, women, children, people who have disability or other disadvantages. Remote parts, if you think about what are the chances that there will be programs in certain parts of us in the dry North and Kenya or some of those areas that are really not frequented where infrastructure is also poor. These patterns tend to follow inequality that we find around and that we have to be to kind of be deliberate to deal with. And we found it very important to understand the terrain, to understand what has happened, what has brought people to those situations. And as you understand, you then wear the eyes of those that are not on the table because unless you do that, they will remain out of the table, you know? So just being aware that for a lot of communities, women may not access school properly or they'll be the first people to leave school, you know, depending on the kind of environment they are in, they're the first people to be bad and if there is violence during elections or any other emergency that has happened, you know, they'll be the most affected. So going out of your way to create opportunities for groups like those is one of the ways that we found very, very effective and being very deliberate. And sometimes writing on the information you've collected to raise resources that are targeting those particular groups of people that are particularly disadvantaged. We found that to be one of the most effective ways. And that's one of the reasons why we have a soft spot for small organizations, small NGOs that are operating in the margins, you know, where you wouldn't find the big actors and trying to find out how can you build their capacity, how can you invest in enabling them to reach their communities more effectively, how can you offer more training and more support and more infrastructure, you know, in different ways that will allow them to be effective in the work that they want to do in their areas. So as you, and even how you raise resources, sometimes you may, you're able to raise resources and we do that a lot in KCDF by bringing about, bringing to the attention of the authorities and other people are interested about those particular situations that affect those that are really marginalized. And people then find it easier to then give you resources to support, you know, maybe girls or children or women who want to get into business or women who need to, you know, to create livelihoods for themselves, even just having confidence to say, yeah, I can do something and raise money. Investing in things like that, the ordinary person will not invest is some of the things that we found very valuable and one of the ways of really bridging that gap for people are particularly marginalized and on the margins of our society. Thank you. Thank you. So do you have anything to add to that question? Just a little, just more so thinking in terms of domestically here, but in looking at marginalized communities, particularly those in rural America, persistent poverty and Indian country per se, looking at capitalization and the resources that we require to really change this paradigm is still a struggle in all honesty. We tend to be out of larger foundation footprints, CRA accessibility, I can say does not happen in Indian country, even though Indian areas are deemed as eligible investment areas. So really we're just completely tenacious in finding and building those relationships. Typically what you'll find with a lot of larger organizations that hold capital or investors, they don't have programs that address women that don't address America or rural America. So it's really building those relationships and having them make a program. Generally what I'll do when we're looking to capitalize, find an organization that's somewhat nearer to what we're doing as an organization. I'll just build those relationships, try to break open those doors and create new funding endeavors. But it would be such a beautiful and beneficial world if we could continue to do that, but really be able to see flows of capital coming in. And I do have to say Socap itself and the whole social investment field I wandered upon maybe about four years ago and it was the first time I didn't have to explain to an investor why community impact is so important and why I want a low return. And they're okay with that because really looking at the returns that we're giving, you're not making a lot of money on it. We're not making our portfolio. That's really not the intent. It's to put capital to work where it should. But when we see these vast community impacts and changing people's lives, that's where we get the buy-in. And I think this venue and really looking at the disruptors that want to change the world. I'm looking up at the screen, we've got 700. I don't know if we've got 723 people listening to the session or just on the whole Socap venue but we're the change agents that are starting this and have been working like when I say starting we're standing on the shoulders of civil rights movement in the 60s of women's suffrage in the 20s of our ancestors just living period to have us be here today. So building this momentum, I think we're really coming to a change of consciousness with capital, with our humanity and where we are as a nation that really supports true equity. And I've never been so even in the midst of like a horrible pandemic and we're in the midst of COVID, I feel hopeful still because now more than ever people want to change. And I think we're getting to a point where people can ask themselves, how much is enough? Because greed, that's something we have to talk about corporate greed, personal greed. When you look at all of these resources, you need to come to that question, what's enough for you and you can't bring it with you. So how are you going to give? I think we're having people ask those really poignant questions of themselves and their organizations and they're extending out their services, their capital, their partnership. So I think we're at a very pivotal time in our history and I'm really happy to be on the road to a trajectory towards equality. I think we all are. Well, yeah, all of that. Yes, it's a reminder that humans as a species, millions of years, we've been a solidarity species and it's only been in the last couple of hundred years that competition and how greed is showing up in profits and returns and return profit maximization and all of that, it's just very recent and we shouldn't forget that. One last question from me and then probably we'll shift to taking some questions which we can see in the chat. And I think Janet and Crystal, Lisa, you mentioned the term low returns and my challenge or my invitation is how do we invite the investment community? We've spoken about access to capital but how can we invite the investment community to kind of expand the imagination around returns? How do we think about returns differently, not just in monetary terms? I just wonder if you have any practical examples or any just examples that you can share with the audience today. I think one thing we need to look at when we get to that question in returns is how do we look at assets? So if we get to how do we value assets, that's a really good pinpoint to get to return. So normally when we look at assets, we're looking at tangibles and that's very important but we also have natural resources, we have cultural resources, we have human resources. So looking at all of the community's assets in a true frame rather than just with a pure capital lens, I think is important but when we take in funding at very low percentages, for instance, Soista, we don't take money in above 2% and we're lending out at about 3.5 and our clients are lending out grassroots, 6% business loans. Looking at the opportunity to gather and garner capital and provide it at a lower rate that's not predatory is incredibly important for the communities that we're serving because generally predatory institutions and those interest rates are the only available outlet for capital. So I don't find it hard talking to my investors in all honesty, it can be a really quick conversation. I can have an investor come in and say, hey, I want to give you $500,000, I want the money back in a year and I want a 15% return. Well, that's not my kind of investor and we've got to move on very quickly but when I'm talking and we're looking at 10-year money, 2% and you're able to get a return but what I really find is the social impact, the community impact and how we're actually able to measure and quantify those because we can. We know that data is king and we've got models to prove that. We're able to get 1,400 new jobs with this note, I'm making it up but we do have these numbers and we're retaining employment and we're providing living wage jobs to individuals and communities that don't have it. That's enough of a return for the investors we're looking for along with a very solid track record. Oesta itself has revolved over 77 million in Indian country and had one loan default. I made that loan, it was risky, it was $10,000, they paid back seven. So really my default rate is still 0.1% and never defaulted on an investor. So a lot of that comes from, I think your own business model but really looking at returns and assets, different kind of really can change that paradigm. I mean- I'd like to emphasize what Crystal said because I think we are at a new stage of describing true impact. What is the return we're looking for? And when you're coming to a financial institution, community development financial institution, I think you can make a loan but the place we're asking you to go with us is to give money over time and invest it for the long haul so that we can get to the impacts that the community has already identified as key. We don't have to reinvent, I'm not really good at science, we don't have to invent new complicated models here. This is saying if you as an investor will stay, this is why I mentioned the Google debt, 1% 10 years. Now they will get that investment back. These low default rates are historically low in the CDFI industry. And when you lend through an intermediary like Oesta or like OFN, we've even had lower default rates because we're recourse to the entire institutions we're dealing with. So I am pushing for the investors to consider the bigger long-term impact, walk on those native reservations with Crystal and see the need for home ownership and understand that if you're interested in energy efficiency in this country, you will help new native communities build new kinds of construction that will be net zero, walk throughout our rural areas and see where we can build, see these kinds of jobs that we can create that the community has already identified as essential and understand that while you are accepting a 1% rate, you're saying with your money that you want deep change, that you want somebody who's gonna go and take a risk when we're coming out of a pandemic, hopefully someday soon, you want an investor who's gonna stick in there for the long haul and invest when nobody else, we are counter cyclical investments. I sit on a bank board and the job on a bank board is to fly to quality, to go up, you can't take any more risk. The job of a non-profit loan fund is to lean in and to actually try to restructure loans and make the next loan, whether it's a business or a home. So my view of this investor question that Gayatri you asked is that, let's start looking at impact over time. Let's say we can do return of principle. Every company in America holds some very low yielding investments, whether we call those bonds or let us be that part of your portfolio. Why not? I think that's what the treasurers are saying, the business round table, business round table. This is the shock of this time. Just came out last week and supported a billion dollar request to the CDFI fund but also called on their members over the next five years to let's place a billion dollars with the crystals of the world, with those who can make long-term investments in our field. So to me, not everything in America, not every investment pays and returns and you get your principal back. We actually have those investments. So let's dedicate some. The thing we said is follow the Google example, put a hundred million dollars of low cost if you're a major corporation in America, put 10 million dollars of grant, let the two work together and let's disrupt. Let's do something serious as America confronts finally where we started this panel. Finally confronts its deepest systems of racial and social injustice and dislocation. Let's do something deeper. We finally, we have the capillaries to do it. Crystal is, you know, they've been working for decades to get native CDFIs at a time when they can take this kind of money. So I have some hope that this is the moment to do this kind of work. Janet, I think you need to unmute. Yeah, I was just saying, I would just, I think we have to be persistent in sharing the change that we are trying to see and the impact that we are trying to make. And if anything, hope with our persistence, we can convert those investors to open up to the kind of change we are looking for, but we can't give up. So persistence, educate them about what is changing, what needs to change so that we don't turn to push the kind of changes that would not be what is needed at the community level, but would allow them to become more informed and about the change that we are trying to push. Recently, I was having a hard conversation with a corporate that was preferring to take some young, you know, high schoolers from, you know, from one to form four and leave them there because they felt if they continue with these very needy children, they can't, maybe they, they can't see the big impact. They were looking at the numbers and I was asking them, which one of us would drop our children after form four and think they're good enough to continue in the world? Where would they be? You know? So, you know, I think just helping them to understand these children are still vulnerable. We haven't helped them get out of poverty. We dropped them at this level, you know? So I think we just have to be persistent so that eventually our investors see the need to make the kind of impact that we are looking for that would make a difference to our communities. Thank you. Thank you, Janet. Thank you, Lisa. Thank you, Crystal. I think we have maybe time for one or two questions. We'll see from the audience. The first question I have from Ashley. How do we balance the need to build trust, which takes time with the urgency of climate change and biodiversity loss? The UN says we now have nine years to make dramatic system levels change. And I will... The lighting of my panel now is all off. You can't see my faces, but my face... Anyone? I have a little comment to that because I do feel the urgency. But thankfully, we're not starting at the beginning. I feel the urgency, but the community development finance field is old and much trust has already been built. So we're not starting at the beginning. What we're asking for is some trust in us to be able to do what Janet just said and be the persistent financiers of change. So I do... This question gives me a minute to say what I think is the intersection between the fields of community development finance and environmental degradation and the fight against climate change. And that is that low-income populations in deep and persistent properties are often right at the intersection. They're often the ones most affected, first affected by the fires, the floods, the degradation. So having trusted institutions that want to move our communities forward, whether it's a loan for energy efficiency or just a loan that makes something go forward. To me, you can have your cake and eat it too. You can have a two-four, something that is good for the environment and moves the most vulnerable populations forward. So that's how... I love the question, but we're not starting at zero with trust. We're starting with, in our case, sometimes institutions that are 40 years old and have done that and frankly have been missing the other side of the equation. They've been missing the investors to come and help them, you know, the kind of persistence that Janet's been talking about. They've missed the patient partners to stand with them and, you know, finish the job. Let's get it done. Thank you. Thank you, Lisa. That was, yeah. I will read the next question. Sorry, I'm having some connectivity issues. Can y'all hear me? Okay. This next question I have is from Matthew. I will just take this one last question and then close. You have three questions. Matthew, I'm going to pick one. The question is perhaps moving towards restorative capital. Is there, is the place to start the way we engage in restorative capital around the formerly incarcerated in America? Do we have to, do we have a look at the way the prison industrial complex and military, industrial complex is of a system of inequity and justice, injustice. Any thought on that? If not, I can also read the next question. I feel like that might be a little out of topic of what we spoke about today. What is the sanctuary and sacredness in our understanding of community investing and community justice and inclusion? How much is our heart center separated by greed in politics and individual greed? That might be a good question instead. I feel like I've been speaking a lot, so I'll go quick on this. Thank you, Matthew, for a beautiful question on both, on really justice and inclusion. And I think because this is an investing for equity, I do think we need the hearts to come back. And we need hearts to speak for justice. And we need hearts that will say, this is how I'm going to invest my money. And we need the way to fight greed is I think to give people a different option. And to say, I am standing here. I'll take my money. You know, I may want it back in 10 years, but let's stand with, you know, let's show people that there's a different way to get at this. And one of my favorite parts of the CDFI industry is the fact that we support so many formerly incarcerated businesses. And this is a huge population in our country that has such a hard time getting formal employment. And CDFIs have been bold partners for decades with those kind of... I think we lost Lisa. I can repeat the question, or Jenna, do you have anything to say to that question? No, I just wanted to say, I think as you fight to be more inclusive, as you fight for more equity, you automatically will begin to have more inclusion, more, you know, more justice. So I wouldn't, I don't look at them very separately. I think you keep on building, as you do that successfully include, reach them, reach the most marginalized, you find you are eventually achieving more justice for those that are really marginalized. And I'm not sure I understood the question while I was trying to read it well, but I kind of think they all go together. So I don't try to, but I would fight for more inclusion and in that process, you know, more justice for the most marginalized and better equity, you know? So, yeah. Crystal, do you have anything to add on any last words for today? Hello? Crystal? Do you have anything to add on any last words for today? I might have lost people as well. Conversation, thank you all for being here. Thank you all for your questions and thank you for the brilliant insight that you brought in today. I just am so, I feel so rich. That's three points to take away, you know, find small trusted grassroots organizations to invest in. You don't need to reinvent the wheel. You know, the solutions are already out there and let's expand our imagination. Let's think bigger in terms of how we define returns, how we define who are the people that get access and don't get access to money. So let's just expand our imagination around investing. So with that, I am going to close. Again, thank you all. I'm not sure if they're staying behind, but I'm just going to end with that. Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Good day.