 There we go. Seeing a presence of a quorum of the Community Resources Committee, I am calling this meeting of that committee to order on August 4, 2020 at 2.05 p.m. Governor Baker's March 12, 2020 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, MGL Chapter 30A Section 20 allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the Community Resources Committee. This meeting is being recorded for future broadcast and all votes if taken will be by roll call. At this time I'll call upon each of the committee members by name to make sure that we can hear you and you can hear us. And then please mute your mic after word. Shalini Balmilne. Yes. Mandy Johannicky is here. Evan Ross. Yes. Steve Schreiber. Yes. And Sarah Swartz will be absent today. With that, before we go on to the very first item on our agenda, I want to bring up to the committee the option of removing the comprehensive housing policy from this agenda item for discussion given I think after our meeting last night we might all be a little bit not up for such an important discussion at this time in terms of exhaustion and presence so that I just wanted to mention we could take that decision now by some sort of consensus whether people want to discuss it today or not or we could wait until after we finish the planning board appointment section and then make a decision then that's up to the committee but I wanted to bring that up as an option for us. Any thoughts before we move on to action items? I'll second that Shalini sorry for this but she raised my hand and Shalini. Thank you for calling my name. Yes I would I would second that I think I would appreciate a little more time to give in the late night and then work in between. I would prefer if we could postpone it. Thank you. I see a nod from Evan. Steve do you have any issues with that? No. So we will we will remove the comprehensive housing policy from this agenda and move it on to I believe it will fit easily onto our next meeting agenda on the 18th so so we will do that and that leaves us we have no action items and that is because while our presentation discussion items planning board appointments interview questions is what we will move to I do not intend for us to finalize these questions based on the procedure we have adopted because we will receive the statements of interest from candidates on Monday August 17th we have a meeting on Tuesday August 18th and one of our processes for interview questions is to if possible utilize the statements of interests as a possibility to determine what questions there are so I hope today to get to a sort of list of what we might include and then given when we see statements of interest filed what we may be able to remove based on what we got or what we might want to add if we've still got questions after reading them but I want to be able to go into that meeting with essentially a list that's already been discussed at that time so we had as you saw the emails I put out a call for questions I received a response from two counselors that that don't include committee members so the questions I might want to add are not in there the questions you guys might want to add are not in there it was just those that aren't on the CRC those were posted I believe this morning in the packet and so we have those two and I also posted the questions that were used at least from what I could tell the last time we had a planning board opening Evan can correct me on that if I pulled the wrong set of questions but I tried to and so I I'm not sure where we want to start with questions um Shalini has her hand up I think I would suggest starting with the original questions from the last planning board meeting and then discussing those from the counselors and from CRC members but if anyone has any other suggestions I'm open to them Shalini I think what I'm going to say is not relevant anymore but there were a couple of attendees and I was wondering if they were here for the housing policy and if you wanted to give them a chance to speak today even though we're not discussing it but looks like everyone's left looks like everyone's left I'm not sure I can go back to see who they were I know John was intending to come for that um I think I thought I did recognize Arthur Keen, Janet McGovern and Dorothy still here and one other person with Kay the name was with Kay okay so there was a person in with Kay who might be interested in housing policy housing policy yeah so anyway okay but thank you for that um yeah we will have public comment after the interview questions if there's any public okay so any other questions see none I think what I'm going to do is put the original the last round of planning board interviews questions up on the screen so that we can see them and discuss them um and that is this one I think everyone can see them now yep okay so this is the set from what I could find that was adopted on January 8th of this year for the last opening that we had um my plan is to kind of just go through each of them uh and discuss them wording whether we want it or not and then move on unless anyone's got something different um or better suggestion so we'll start with number one which that question was why are you interested in serving on the planning board thoughts on it Evan has a thumbs up Shalini or Steve Steve's a thumbs up Shalini's a thumbs up my only thought would be this one might be one that we mark for reconsideration after seeing the statements of interest depending on how well that's covered there um but that's again I don't intend to remove it now I'm not arguing for it I think we should just revisit it when we've been able to see the statements of interest that are submitted and what is your relevant it so we'll leave it there we won't change it what is your relevant expertise or experience is the next one I'm not seeing any thoughts I think my thoughts are the same we might not need this one or we might need to rejigger it depending on what the statements of interest provide thoughts Shalini I think leaving it is a good idea because sometimes people some people disclose more some disclose less but when they speak about it it might give them a chance to say looking at other people when they said oh I have this also which I forgot to put in the written statement okay that's a good point okay any others on that one seeing none the next one is what important perspective do you feel you bring to this body I am seeing some nods of yes on this one seems awfully close to two and four so how would I answer two and three differently hmm I'm not sure that I would answer them differently Evan I'm sorry no no Steve I thought you were done that's why I wanted to have I know I just afraid to raise my hand sorry right um so if I had uh thought of this in advance you so you did grab the this is the um planning more questions that were last used for the planning board if I had thought in advance I would have also sent you the zba questions on an extent the questions we designed for the zba were based on our experience doing these questions only because um for the zba we actually only asked why are you interested in serving and the reason was that we we got kind of similar answers to one two and three right there's someone's why someone is interested in serving is often either because they think they bring an important perspective or they think they bring relevant expertise and so I think all three of these are good questions I would question whether we need all three or whether we want to just use one or two of them or combine I mean like question two could be um what is your relevant expertise experience or perspective or something like that um because the other you know expertise if someone's applying because they're just a lay person who's interested in the planning board that actually the experience they bring but it's also so I guess my question is do we feel like we need these three separate questions because as Steve said they're all sort of similar or can we integrate them into one or two or just choose one or the other thank you for that I'm going to try and type the zba questions in so that we have them see if I can get this so those are the zba questions I hope people can see them um yeah so it's Shalini and then Steve Steve can go first did you have something yeah go ahead oh in a way I think number three is a better question than a one two a one two three I think three is a better question because I actually think that if they don't hit two with that answer then there's an issue but there's also something to be said about breaking down questions into the smallest parts so it's like working muscles individually um so we could also say if you've already answered it don't feel obligated to answer again I can go next sure Shalini unless someone wanted to respond to that I think what I'm saying is sort of a response to what you're saying Steve so I'll go ahead uh I do agree with the the perspective to me is the most important question here however as Steve was saying I think when you break it down and like when I leave classes and I'll say okay what is your intention for being here and don't go with the first answer because people have a certain idea why they're doing it and then I'll say okay now you know go a little deeper and don't go with the first answer what else and generally they'll come around with something else hopefully they've already done this work before they come and speak to us yeah very often people haven't done that work and so I think asking them in at least two different ways a similar idea will get more and differences amongst the people any recommendations Shalini I think though we could potentially combine the expertise experience and perspective because yeah the why is the different question all together in some sense like it's a motivation why you want to do this and it gives us where they're coming from like what is their drive for doing this and what is the what question like what do you bring to the table so I think you could group the what together and the why separately we'll do Evan try to figure out how to reword that so I was actually gonna say I actually like what Shalini just said which was what do you bring to the table and I'm wondering if instead of calling out expertise experience perspective or something if it'd be useful to just say what do you where it's missing on the fly right but what do you feel you bring to the planning board that is useful or what do you feel like you bring to the planning board that can make it a successful body or something like that and then they can kind of choose from do they want to talk about qualifications do they want to have an education do they want to talk about perspective instead of us saying give us your perspective give us your expertise it's well what do you think you bring of course that is also very related to number one which is why you're interested because you're interested because you think you can bring something although not necessarily I mean you could have I know I wasn't in the interviews for planning board in in uh April 2019 um because Sarah was our designee that was a different process but she said there were people whose whose why was because they were just satisfied with the planning board right it had nothing to do with perspective or anything like that so I guess they are different anyways that's just one thought Shalini you still have your hand raised oh comment or not oh yeah I just wanted to bring it down very okay no that's fine um so at this point you guys are seeing the changes I'll obviously retitle this document and all that we're talking about as we go um if we're satisfied with sort of the with at this point the deletion of two the acceptance of one and three as it is reworded we can move on um and so it looks like maybe we'll move on for now again we can think about these for another two weeks um and come back with potential changes we'll have one document to work off of then um and and be able to concentrate on that in two weeks um so the next is tell us about an experience you have had with collaborating with a group um which is also one that was used down in the zba it was the fourth one in zba it needs to be fairly standard I'm not seeing any questions or hands it's a good one so the next is given that the planning board is the keeper of the keeper of the master plan uh what do you see as the planning board's role in achieving the goals of the master plan to encourage vitality in the downtown and village centers Evan so um based on the experience that oakah had with the january interviews I don't feel like this question worked um I I think it had some really good intentions which is we wanted to hear people talk about the planning board in the context of the master plan and so we pulled out sort of one of the goals um what we got was people reading sections of the master plan to us we got one interviewee who criticized us for the interview by saying there are lots of goals I don't know why you chose just this one it just did not work as a question so I would say delete it that said I do still feel there might be merit in having a question that relates in some way to the master plan it just shouldn't be this question Melanie so doesn't that tell us something about the people when they respond in that way like they're criticizing us for asking that or why did we choose this and not the others or I think it gives us some information about the people um that being said um I think it's a good question why just this goal and not the other goals but but I think it's an important question somehow maybe not just downtown maybe just the economic vitality or that's consistent with the master plan like it doesn't have to be just downtown but it could be like the what is that thing that's coming up that innovation center with Rosenberg could it be focused on zoning revisions maybe you know the master plan has Steve can better rattle off all the chapters but there's like a conservation chapter and a land use chapter and a housing chapter and this chapter and that chapter so maybe instead of a goal it could be what do you see is the planning board's role in achieving or in revising by zoning bylaws to achieve the goals of the master plan period you know not pick out one goal but or you know that was a very rough thing but how could the planning board help achieve the goals of the master plan period um and see what goals they identify maybe Steve so yeah so I think the important thing is that a they know there is a master plan and that b they know the planning board's role regarding the master plan no and then a b c that they know the master plan's role in framing discussions about zoning so to me it's the part that they know sort of that hierarchy so I would be totally comfortable with the question that just said whether your thoughts about the master plan or what's one thing you would change about the master plan or just something that indicates they're aware of it but I am just the way that this particular question has been framed and even some of the variations we're discussing seem to in a way seem too much leading the witness so I would be much more curious as to whether or not they've read the master plan or are familiar with it at least familiar with it would it be possible to do that through a what one goal or can you talk you know the question is like what what do you think the planning board can do to help achieve the goals of the master plan yeah or um yeah something like that or what's a part of the master plan you think is lacking or or I don't yeah I mean we can't even come up with that I'd like what you said though Evan and then Shalini yeah I liked I liked so Steve actually hit on the sort of one of the original purposes of the question which was we wanted them to show that they knew we had a master plan and had at least some idea of what was in it even if they had an age of it and so I kind of like Mandy's because it forces them um to one show they know the master plan to show that they have at least thought about some of the goals and three thought about the role of the planning board in achieving those goals and I think to what Mandy was suggesting earlier that could be zoning but it could also not be right I mean that you know when they're considering special permit and site plan all of that is related to to master plan in some way and so I think I think that I like sort of keeping it broad and allowing them to sort of choose the goals that they want to focus on I agree what are the thoughts on the red that I just typed given that the planning board is the keeper of the master plan what is one thing the planning board can do to help achieve the goals of the master plan Steve you're muted I would prefer to take out the first part and they can tell us what they know you know what's one thing so in other words I wasn't there for the last set of interviews but someone gives the answer well the planning board is the keeper of the master plan then you know that we get points but I'm not sure we should give that answer other thoughts Shawnee do we want to just keep it general as achieve the goals of the master plan or would we want them to talk to one of the goals and that would give us an idea what the interest is in or something or no like economic development is something that's so lacking so I like that there was a focus on that um but if we give it keep it so general they may just make some general statements and we what is the purpose of this question one is to understand to know if they know about the master plan do we have a second intention here like my intention was to know what their thoughts were about economic development and are they able to think have a vision for what how we can because the master plan does have these goals and I think it was one of the persons in the past who said that there is sometimes conflicting seemingly conflicting goals and and then how do we uh yeah how do we move forward and make progress on those goals and stuff so I would like basically to hear from people what their perspectives are in economic development. Evan? So two things which I think are kind of a response to that so it would yes one of the interviewees noted that he felt some of the goals were conflicting um but also having read the master plan and whatnot a lot of the goals are interrelated right and so I guess I would I would maybe be leery about making them choose one goal because I think that so many of them are connected and I think that um saying goals gets them to speak to the larger vision which I'm a little bit more interested because this economic development and conservation and housing my one issue with the current word in which I I like except for one piece is the one thing and and the reason I'm hesitant on that is it makes it sound to me as though and maybe this is what you're trying to get at and so I don't take it out because you might disagree with me um but it makes it sound as low what when I read what is one thing I hear what is the planning name one thing that the planning board is not doing that you propose they do um and maybe that's just my interpretation whereas I'd rather just hear them speak a little bit more generally about how the planning board can realize the vision of the master plan but I think the one thing is you're going to hear them I worry that they feel like they have to come up with like a one little proposal that hasn't been done um which isn't which I'm less interested in than a broader like what do you think on the planning when the plane where should be doing um so that's my thought we could do describe how the planning board can help achieve the goals of the master plan does that address it Evan and would that be acceptable to others I'm seeing nods yep so we will delete the other one put this one in and with no we'll move on to the next question at this point which is are you comfortable up Evan are you ready to speak to this question before I even asked it both of the both of these questions were were pushed by one member of oka um because we felt as though they were really important to get sort of a verbal yes or a verbal commitment to these they were both answered as just yes or no by the majority of people there was some confusion around applicants about whether they had they should be giving more information than just yes or no um and that's why we got rid of them for the zba questions because we had like two for the six we had two candidates they're just like yeah and then we had one who talked for three minutes about the importance of open meeting law and then sort of interesting after that is in talking to some counselors some people were like oh I like the ones that just said yes or no it showed that they could give a concise quick answer and then no one to shut up and then some counselors like I didn't like that they just said yes or no we gave them a platform to speak and it was just it didn't help us it didn't do anything um so I would strike both six and my personal opinion based on what we saw is six and seven or yes or no questions and aren't worth our time other thoughts on those two completely agree I'm sorry I'm Steve completely agree Shalini Shalini is not in her head agree so I will X them out um the zba questions that aren't in here I think is number three describe a situation where you disagreed with a rule of regulation but had to apply it follow it I would be interested to hear from Evan whether that was a question that was successful for zba and also whether he believes it might be successful for planning board under their regulatory function so um I thought that this was a very interesting question when we asked zba um I think that we got really unique answers from people and we got people thinking uh you know previous zba members focused it very specifically on zba initiatives others focused it on you know faculty hiring committees I think we got very unique answers um so that's my first I'm gonna I'm not going to provide you a clear answer first answers I think we got really interesting unique answers second part of it though is I don't think I heard anything necessarily that helped me make my decision um so you know it depends what we're really looking for um and whether or not this um is useful for the planning board I mean I do think it can be um because the planning you know planning board is constrained a bit by the zoning bylaw and their role um I guess I'm not opposed to the question I thought it was an interesting question it was uh but I don't necessarily know that I got useful information out of it other than oh that's a really interesting story shalini sorry I had a similar question which was like how to deal with conflicting opinions and controversial decisions and I think that's a very important question that between that or this like the kind of alluding to the idea how do people navigate discomfort and I think it's a very important skill to have so shalini would put that one on there right it was whatever language we come up with as long as that's my goal with that question is to see how different people respond to and uh it was somewhere else we saw I think it was in the school committee where some I don't know why this one answer is really sticking in my head funny enough that person is applying here but anyway um I thought his response was really good uh which was related to this idea it kind of really stood out of how like it seemed like he had been through situations and he had a really good approach to the you know these kind of situations which is so thoughts on shalini's versus the disagreed with a ruler regulation but had to apply or follow it or both I mean at this point we don't have to get rid of any because we're not finalizing I think I think my I lean towards keeping the ruler regulation in and I I don't have an opinion on the other one yet for now um because I know it can be really hard to set aside your own personal opinion that you hate that rule and still vote in favor of something that follows that rule um and so I you know I take Evan's feedback seriously that did it really help make a decision I don't know um but if if someone comes through and answers that question with well I would I just wouldn't follow it because I don't like it I would you know that would be very telling to me you know if they couldn't come up with an answer that says well I'd still try to do my best to apply it even though I hate it um Evan and then Steve I was Steve has to stand up for me I'm okay Steve um yeah so not everybody's had to apply a rule or regulation I guess they've all had to follow it but did you get many parenting stories when you ask that question I'm curious uh not from my memory we got a few given the nature of this community stories of being that but no parents um I like the you know the idea of where the situation that you've been uncomfortable on how if you dealt with it that's sort of a good job interview you know type question I kind of like the specificity of three number three and I like the fact that we might get stories interesting stories but um whether or not they're deal whether or not they'll change the needle on I don't know I don't I don't mind number three the number the one that proposed by Shalini I think that is also similarly important but so a lot of it is just them knowing the language on how they would because everyone's going to say that they're good at that right or because you know if they're over 21 or whatever the minimum I don't even know if we have a minimum age over 18 they've had to deal with this in their lives and so everyone will have you know something to do that but I'm not sure I don't know I kind of like the specificity if I had to choose when I would take the specificity of the one for the zba I've been a man Shalini the one one uh I should have mentioned this before one of the other uh rationales uh that okah had in putting uh this question in for the zba is so I mean I'd be hard pressed to find a situation where someone's going to come in and say oh I've never done that if I don't like a rule I just don't follow it right like it you know people are um more than that to part part of it was um so these questions get us information but they also sort of signal to the candidates and so if you looked at the selection guidance for the zba um under characteristics of an effective zba member um and under the input from the chair both featured understanding the judicial nature of the body and we saw this question as sort of signaling to people like this isn't a body for you to just come in and just implement your own opinions there are sort of rules and it's it's really in a judicatory body um and so this question helps think about that and so I guess your other question Mandy was do you feel like this is useful for the planning board and I do think that there's there's a there's a role in there for that of even if we're not sure if we're it's going to move the needle does it signal to the candidates um sort of our expectations of planning board members as an appointing authority I think Shalini's question is is really interesting um one of the things that we might do is just kind of put out everything we can consider and then at some point we might find them because I'm actually thinking that Shalini's question might also be interested to try to combine with current question for collaborating with a group because it might be interesting to hear them talk about collaborating with a group when there was conflicting opinions within the group or collaborating with a group around something controversial um and maybe instead of keeping those as two separate questions there's a potential to merge them that's a good idea um Shalini's nodding she sold her hand up I I like that idea of combining that and I was just going to say that making the conflicting opinions more specific to you as Steve was saying you know describe the situation where you have to deal but I think I like that describe the situation we have to work in a group around a conflicting or controversial decision that's that's perfect we're going to leave on both for now um it's going to get very red soon so apologize for that um let's leave on both let's discuss this fifth one from zba that's now number two or whatever um sort of the concluding question it'll end up in the middle of the list right now but um for now leave this one in the did you forget to tell us anything question yeah okay so now what I'm going to do I'm going to take this document and I am going to copy over the two questions we received from the council into this document so that we can see them on this document since this is our working document um and then Shalini would you like me to copy the rest of your questions over to that you would send me so we can see them sure okay so I will do that give me some time here I had questions I come up with um I haven't reviewed them in a little bit because they're what I sent well last time um so some of them might already be covered here so I'll go back later but we've got this set and then we'll see if Evan and Steve have questions too they'd like to add for consideration um the two we got from other counselors is what can the planning board do to promote growth particularly downtown and in village centers that will enlarge our tax base consistent with the master plan Evan so actually I was uh I had come ahead up a little bit earlier um sorry um the first cba question what is your understanding of the role of the zba you crossed out is already in the oh it's actually not but we we touched on it with the master plan and so I guess I'm wondering um you know we thought it was important for the zba to hear what people think the zba does um I I guess I'm wondering do we feel like that's a useful question um or do we feel like it's sort of captured in some of these other questions it might be useful as we're going through to leave it in maybe as we think about this over the next two weeks we'll figure out something else simply because um I would worry if someone comes in thinking the planning board only deals with zoning bylaw revisions um but we might be able to find a way to capture that another question so that we can shorten our question list but for now it might be worth leaving in from my thinking yeah I mean that's I I guess and the reason I was thinking about it is because we've had these meetings about master well you guys did master plan update process before I joined but we also talked about zoning process and a lot of that conversation was about the respective roles of the planning board in relation to the council so I guess I was just curious maybe that would be useful to hear them think about the role of the planning board itself back to we'll leave it in I have just thought it was already on the list um my brain is not completely functioning today right now um the question the first question from the councillors promote growth particularly in downtown to enlarge attack space um I think this brings us back to some other things we were talking about earlier with the other one where the goal there was a goal picked of encouraged vitality um this one's talking about relating it to funding essentially uh thoughts Shalini likes it I mean we've already sort of discussed it but you know where I stand on that one Steve you know I feel it's leading the witness a little bit you know giving the answer and in particular it's giving the answer to some of the questions above um so I'd rather hear you know the people may in fact not agree with this like they might have some other so uh yeah I'm not sure that I'm on board with this one also I don't know the answer other than loosen up the proposed loosening up the zoning bylaw I mean the question is is there more than one answer and I don't know um my concern I'll take my time before Shalini goes again is I guess it's not a concern the thing I would do to support this question in the reason I would support it in is I actually see the planning board as a very political appointment um and so opinions on things like growth um and zoning I think are important to know before we do appointments I know there are many councillors that disagree with that opinion um but I think this question gets to some of trying to might help us determine whether the views of the person were seeking to appoint a line with our council goals um the goals that we had for policy in the manager's performance review um and our own intentions for what we would like to see out of the planning board and out of zoning revisions um but I know that might not be agreeable to a number of councillors Shalini yeah I think I was going to say something very similar you just articulated it much more clearly than I will but I that's kind of what I was thinking is that the role of the planning board is to plan for our systematic growth and in the different domains of housing and and you know all of these other areas and so anyone who's coming in with very tied to a certain perspective of trying to keep Amherst in a certain way or whatever I think it would allow us to see that they are coming with a very rigid a priori idea of what it is and if it's not consistent with our with the master plan or um the role of planning board then I think it would allow us to see that we need to be able to see that Steve yeah so maybe the problem I'm having here is that if you take a take away the part of the sentence that's between the commas then the question becomes what can the planning do to promote growth that will enlarge our tax and I'm not saying do that but yeah but so great what can they do to promote growth that will enlarge our tax base consistent with the master master plan so that's really only about money right it's only about but there's many many other reasons to promote sustainable or good development I guess and I wouldn't even call it growth because growth can mean a whole bunch of different things to different people but to promote um sensible development or whatever that will increase the livability of Amherst or something like that but it's not just about the money it's about housing affordability it's about the mix of people that choose to live here it's about reducing our our um dependence on fossil fuels and you know et cetera et cetera Evan yeah so this is a tough one and I I think I'm probably following a little bit more in line with Steve's opinion on this um I guess my first thought was how is this meaningfully different from number five how we can help achieve the goals of the master plan and it's that we're pulling out something specific right um it's specifically talking about and you know one and then the set the last question on this page the bullet I mean they're very similar questions they're both about sort of economic development and growth right um we're pulling out that and I'm certainly someone who cares a whole lot about that right um but then I'm thinking in my mind well this question could also be you know Steve mentioned housing affordability right what can the playing board do to promote housing affordability it could also be sustainability right it could also be the diversity of our the social and racial economic diversity of our community like you could pull you could actually do this question and plug in any goal and I guess I I'm just I'm feeling some um questioning around why we pull out just economic development even though that's actually one of my priority goals um and that's why you know Steve's sort of statement about livability or vitality I think covers a lot of these different but then I guess gets sort of back to question five right so it's do we want a question that's overall master plan which is specific and then one specific aspect of master plan and if so how do we justify economic development versus housing affordability versus sustainability right Shalini okay I think I have a great question which is gonna which is gonna take into account all of these things he said maybe the single question could be what interconnection do you see between development housing blah blah blah and racial equity or something because they are and that's the main point problem I've encountered is people are not able to see connect the dots and the reason we're not able to have diversity in this town is because people can't afford it and people can't afford it is because we're just relying on the property tax and we don't have enough of that and so people can see all of this I mean at least it'll allow us to get to see if people are able to connect the dots so create some sort of a question like that I just typed one up as you were speaking my thoughts were going to be after this five of describe the planning board to help achieve the goals we could list a couple of the goals you know not just economic development and say pick one goal and what can the planning board do to promote that or you know but again it doesn't really change much from the question at number five and then I don't know Evan right so so and the difference between what you just said Mandy and what you wrote in response to Shalini is you put the role of the planning board in the question and she took it out right and so I guess five is all about what's the role of the planning board but it sounds like to some extent that question that you wrote that Shalini throughout there is actually less about the operation or function of the planning board and more we just want to hear your thoughts on development housing and all these things in our town which I think gets back to what you said earlier Mandy about this is sort of a political appointment and we do want it and do we want to hear people's viewpoints I think Oka and I'm not saying this is good or bad I'm just giving context Oka focused very Oka did as much as we could to get away from the political side of this and focus very strictly on what are your skills what are your qualifications what why do you think you'd be effective on this committee to try to but but we know it is a political appointment right and so I guess that's my big question with what's what you just wrote and what's currently highlighted on the screen is is our is our goal to just get their perspective or viewpoint on development growth in town leaving aside the planning board altogether which is sort of captured in five what's the intent of the question Shalini my intent is to see if people would have are able to hold these competing goals and they're actually not competing seemingly competing but they're actually interconnected and if they have the capacity to see and connect the dots and I think in like in research we would always say there is no objectivity really because everyone's coming in with a bias and so it's but it's better if you just put the bias out there that this is the bias we're coming in with I don't know how that's related to this but it was just making me think about that because we're saying it's a political decision but we're not going to but we know it is a political decision and I think more than the politics of it I think is the ability of the person to be adaptable and not come in with very rigid so I'm not interested in where they're coming in from as much as are they able to see the bigger vision and then adapt based on you know what the master plan vision is rather than their own individual agenda because we all have an agenda so I really appreciate Mandy that you structured our schedule so that we don't have to vote on this today. Oka always did these in one meeting but I think I would struggle with that right now and so maybe I think this is one I might want to think about a little bit not think about whether I think it's useful and I understand where Shalini's coming from I think we I think we have to really think about the wording of it and again I question you know again we picked out development housing sustainability racial equity we could again so we could throw a historic character in there right we could throw like there's a million things we can do so thinking about how we can work with that but I might just suggest that we leave it here for now knowing that we can edit it on the 17 18 because I think I think I personally would benefit from just thinking about the best way to ask this question so we get what's useful for us the other thing I was just going to throw out really quick as I see in attendees John Hornick and so we might want to mention that we're not doing the comprehensive housing policy today yeah thank you for that I've been watching I hadn't been watching who was in the attendees list and I miscounted apparently um yes John we have decided to postpone that to the next meeting on the 18th that you're allowed to stay John if you wish to and you can stay for public comment which we have not done yet but we won't actually be talking about agenda item I don't know 3b or whatever it is um and all so thank you for pointing that out Evan um so let it sounds like we're gonna leave it in we're gonna think about it we might come up each person's going to be tasked with potentially coming up with revisions to this list I'm getting the feeling though that this one we feel is covered sufficiently enough by number five up above to delete it from this list and potentially this other question to delete it from the list is is that what I'm seeing I think so so I'm gonna delete down from the list the next question we received from counselors was do you offer a perspective that is otherwise not adequately represented on the planning board and if so please explain I see a head shaking for Evan I'm trying to I don't want to make it too small um we're obviously out of some room here okay or maybe I can do this no markup there um now we can see um some of what we've gone with so we are on this one here um I'm trying to figure out whether it might be adequately covered somewhere else Steven then Shalini yeah so I'm uncomfortable with this one for a number of reasons and like we are interviewing everyone including incumbents so like let's say that they are also a baker and we have two other bakers that are being considered so yeah I don't know I'm a little uncomfortable with the way that this one's framed and I think it's actually asked somewhere else a little bit earlier Shalini yeah I was thinking that this question is a combination of that perspective that you bring question and then I later on had that one about what is it uh you know okay so I do feel that we need more diversity of perspective like I learned that in our district meeting that was one of the takeaways for me is that when we're making policies it's affecting people and when we don't have that representation in council there's no way for us to even think through how it's affecting people because we just don't have that perspective and which is why I think it's important to really go out of our way to try and get people who are generally underrepresented in these committees on town council and so forth so there's some way to ask that bring that question and highlight that Evan yeah so um I personally think that this question is adequately covered in what do you feel you bring to the planning board that can make it successful um and if they don't mention it there they can also mention it and what's kind of labeled as question three five uh what else would you like us to know I don't think we need to ask this directly because I think that it's if someone feels that perspective is important that's what they're going to talk about and either why are you interested or what do you feel you bring or what else do you think we should know in making artisans sure um okay the challenge point I I agree 100 about um getting people who are underrepresented I think unless things have changed since I last looked our pool is 100 white almost exclusively male and homeowner and so I don't think we're gonna get a question I don't think we're gonna get an answer from anyone that represents bringing underrepresented demographics under the planning board from our current pool um I think what we'll get is what we see I'll try and be careful on how I say this because they're being reported what we see a lot in this town which is um privileged white homeowners talking about how they bring diversity um which only so it sounds like we're gonna delete this question is fully covered um this next one which was one of Shalini's um Shalini I guess um this is something that the appointing people have to look into I guess the person who's underrepresented doesn't have to say I'm underrepresented we should be able to so okay that's kind of my thoughts so I'm gonna delete this one yeah the next one you had was what role can you play in the planning board to promote economic development yeah we already covered that one we're working on covering it and struggling through how I'm gonna delete that one okay Shalini yeah and the next one is uh walk us through the process you'll use for making decisions in the planning board um I can provide the thinking behind that was yeah what I was thinking is that people sometimes come in with very confident we should do this or we should do that and then I'm always curious what was the process for coming to that conclusion and the reason also is multifaceted because I generally tend to doubt everything that I'm saying and offering and feel so underconfident and even though I've done research on the topic I've spoken to people but I'm still like maybe we should try this and then I on the other hand I'll hear people who have not spoken to anybody has no personal experience or will be so confident in saying what they are proposing so I was just wondering if it would be helpful to get a sense of you know I mean because it like what is the process that people are using we are not trained urban designers or what are our policymakers or what not we just random people and what is the process we're going to be using like are these people going to go out and talk to people are they going to do research are they going to dig into their own personal experience so I think it would be helpful to see what and I don't know how to ask that question but that's what I was thinking. Thank you for that explanation Shalini, Evan. This is a really interesting question and it kind of makes me think about discussions about our process of like well what do we which you all on the OJCRC talked about extensively and we're starting to implement right of what do we consider when we're making a decision my old if we're going to do this question and again I think this is another one that I might have to think about and I think it's an interesting question and my only thing I would say is I'd want to maybe try to constrict it to maybe zoning amendments or so I'm a little worried about saying like what's your process on making a decision who would you talk to what would you research for us an SPR right or I worry about it seeming to conflict with our questions about like disagreeing with a rule of regulation so I guess where there's opportunity to do a whole lot of research creative research outreach talking to people isn't coming up with zoning proposals or you know in a decade the master plan the new master plan but I don't want necessarily to think I'm just not sure that it easily transfers over to special permits and site plan review and I think what you're talking about shallowney you know makes sense for master plan is owning but I'm not sure it makes sense for things that are sort of constructed by our bylaws about the process that they have to follow does that make sense I'd love to hear from Steve on this I'm gonna before Steve I'm going to put up two questions I had drafted for myself that kind of relate to what Evan just said which is why I want to throw them up there they don't completely relate but they're kind of there and then Steve yeah so in a way if we were interviewing a supreme court nominee the question would we be trying to figure out whether or not this candidate is a originalist or a I don't know what the other term is so do they have a very strict reading of the zoning bylaw and you know the town bylaws or do they see it as a more flexible organic document and I think that that's a very real that's a very real issue that actually does have some relationship to everything above particularly the yeah maybe I should leave it at that but I do think it's an important question but for me that would be and actually I think it's probably most relevant for because the zoning bylaw is such a you know such a lengthy and deliberative process that goes to the planning board that no individual ever really has fingerprints on a particular zoning bylaw that you know makes it to us but they're really immediate one are the SPRs you know the kind of the boots on the ground decisions that the planning board is solely responsible for but I would actually really love to know what their opinion is or how much is there a right amount of flexibility in the zoning bylaw or should it be stricter or because there is as we all know quite a bit of flexibility that unless you know through this waiver process or through the special permit process yeah so throwing it out there it's a horribly worded question so don't worry about what I'm typing just to kind of get that that thinking on the page yeah what is the opposite of original list like um well there's a constructionist constructionist well the originalist or constructionist let's just ask that I'm not sure that's the interpret say I can't even spell the word interpreted so I don't know you know there's strict construction which is letter of the law as originally meant or you know and then there's I'd have to come up with the right term yeah yeah so other thoughts on Shalini's question it sounds like it might be useful but we're not sure the wording is correct at this point um and then thoughts on what Steve just said and then I'd like thoughts on the two I put up there are kind of the same thing um but I am curious given how we've had to work with the planning board um especially as it relates to zoning by law revisions and potentially master plan revisions what people think about that so hence that's why I had that question there just general question is how long are these interviews um um I think that's one thing we have to consider next time as we go through these questions and how many of them we actually really do need to ask and what the time limits are on responses we'll know at that point how many candidates we actually have um you know the the pool has potentially grown since our last meeting um so you know I'm I can't obviously we don't talk about numbers but it has potentially grown okay thank you so Evan so I think um looking at the the one two that maybe put on the screen and then um the one that that Steve said I I guess my my initial thought is how much knowledge do we expect them to come to the planning board with right and so we talked when we were talking about um what's now question five up top we had talked about we want them to know uh that we have a master plan and generally what's in it do we want them to have read the master plan in its entirety I you know that I don't know right but we we said we at least want them to know we have one and what its main goals are we want them to know the top lines right and so when I'm looking at these questions I guess I'm just wondering what's our expectation for the knowledge they come in with and that's so for number one I think that's a really important question because we've been talking about this for you all we're talking about this before Shalini and I joined and then we've still been talking about it I worry a little bit about someone who has to sort of before the who maybe hasn't been paying attention um but is interested and has something to offer feeling like they have to learn about what the CRC is and and come up it I worry that's asking a lot but maybe it's not and the same thing with the question about flexibility and the zoning by law we could that's actually a pretty I think that's a technical a pretty technical question and so um I'm not I think I would be a decent member of the planning board I hope but I would think I would struggle even based on what I know right now to answer that question um because I think it requires them maybe to have read the zoning by law and so we could argue that yeah we want someone who's applying for the planning board who have read the zoning by law or we could say look that's an unreasonable expectation and so I feel like I'm hinting at my opinion here but I am I guess I'm curious with these is what do we expect people to know before they even interview and is it reasonable to expect them to understand what the CRC is and what the dynamic is and and have a firm enough understanding of the zoning by a law that they could answer question about flexibility and interpretation before they even get to an interview so I'll answer it with my the question I came up with um I you know we you know Steve knows we have struggled with what our role as a community resource committee is as it relates to master plan this one is more on zoning but um zoning revisions where do they start where do they end who gets it when who talks to who and all of that um but throughout all of it we've determined that there needs to be some sort of relationship um and we're struggling with potentially what that is um but I I guess what I'm trying to get at is to to make sure individuals that are applying for the position understand there needs to be one um and sort of accept that and and maybe have ideas of how that could work um because you know we've struggled with how it would work um I would be concerned with someone that comes in and says we don't have to talk to CRC or the council at all as it relates to zoning by law revisions we can do our own thing like that would totally concern me because we're the ones that has to pass the by law revisions um as council you know and if if someone doesn't understand that um you know or or has a negative attitude towards that I I think I'd be concerned um so it might not be worded well there's probably a better way to word that but that's trying sort of trying to get at what I'm at is trying to get towards a collaborative process so that the planning board doesn't waste their time on zoning by law revisions that have no chance at the council um you know things like that that it's not siloed that there is collaboration there um it probably can be worded better but Shalini yeah I would agree that people need to know that no I wouldn't agree about that but I think they we we do need to work together and that's such a great need but where would they find out about because we're still figuring it out ourselves what that relationship so where would they go and even find that relationship and learn about it yeah you make a good point I'm not sure and I am totally open to ways to figure out how to ask the question without requiring stuff like that I'm just going to do some reformatting here while we think all right people okay I think after describing all of that I'm okay with getting rid of the role do I do we see the planning board having in zoning by law revisions so I'm going to delete it since it was my suggestion unless people really feel it needs to be in there we're dealing with those three if we're not sure what to do now and we're thinking about them we could leave them on here for the next two weeks continue thinking with people bringing revisions to me and I wouldn't incorporate them all into the same document for preparation for the next meeting instead of sitting here in silence yeah maybe that's a good option I I'm really struggling with this question because I think that you're right that we need people to understand there's a relationship between the council and the planning board I just I'm just not I'm not sure how if you're not on already on the council or the planning board I just don't know how you answer that question like I think that that requires a level of understanding of these bodies that might be above what we can reasonably expect for an applicant because in some in some way I mean you're asking them to talk about or develop process which we know how hard processes because we're like almost on year two and we're still getting bogged down and process all the time so yeah I guess that's that's that's where I'm really struggling with this is if the relate if it's about the relationship between the planning board and the CRC or the council I don't know how you reasonably answer that question without having some experience serving on it either and and because of that I worry that it's a question that might favor someone seeking reappointment over someone who is applying new to the body Steve well plus one to what Evan just said but also vice versa so someone who's on the planning board might have a really nuanced opinion about exactly how these should work and that nuance may be in conflict with what we think and then somebody brand new might present a sort of completely different perspective that's untested so we have way too many questions you know so I think that can probably be one that I would jettison and I know that we're going to edit that's not a leader are you you remember it or I'm trying to it's not letting me oh yeah the option we programmed your computer to only allow four questions yeah but anyway there's 12 questions there yeah yeah and times 15 applicants or whatever be close there we go how'd you do that I switched lists and then switched back I have no idea why that worked word can be a mystery sometimes but so I think at this point we've got a list of 12 we know it's too many there's potential for I think it was one of these combining into another one I'm not even sure which one it was now um might have been the conflicting opinions controversial decisions along with a disagreed rule regulation I think might have been the two no it was uh it was my suggestion and it was um five and three uh contextualizing collaboration with a group in the context of a situation in which it was controversial or where with the group had conflicting opinions I'm I'm well move that in just to give us an idea of that um yep and then the ruler regulation you have to apply and follow it is kind of the same as sort of these two I'm just going to move them in just to relate they're kind of related how do you apply stuff but it sounds like we're kind of the point where we've got an outline we're not finalized we didn't intend to finalize today um we have some thinking to do the question I have so I'm okay with us as if everyone else is of sort of laying it down for now and coming back to it in two weeks the question I have is I received responses from two counselors on request for questions since they are not finalized I was thinking of going back out and asking again um and I was thinking of somehow including this list in that set in that email with however raw it is right now um and I would like thoughts on that um because it might help us to get feedback on these questions in two weeks it given the way they are now though some of them are not I'm not sure some of them are ready to go out to the full council for feedback which is my concern with sending them out Evan so not to sound um well you sent out an email soliciting questions you sent out a reminder email this is the third time the council has been asked to do this they did it once for planning board in january once for a zba in april if they didn't get you questions by the deadline they didn't submit questions I we I'm worried we have so many I'm I'm worried about either getting more or getting emails from counselors giving their opinion conflicting opinions on different questions um I don't so I don't think we should send it back out the one thing I would ask and I ask is an understatement strongly urge is that as soon as possible this be sent to sarah um and if she is not going to be at the meeting on the 18th um if we could at least get her thoughts on this because she had she one always provides very valuable information and two also has the experience of having done this before so I'm much less interested in getting in giving uh the full council a second chance as I am in making sure we get input from our fifth committee member that is a very good idea I'm shallony yeah I completely agree I'm just going to share I completely agree and I don't think you should increase your workload unnecessarily because you've already done that one so okay so I will not send it out to all the other counselors if they ask I will if a counselor asks I will send it to them though um as a courtesy if someone actually comes back and asks um and I'm thinking particularly of the two members that actually sent me questions and knew we were discussing it today they may ask what the result of that was um and I will let them know um okay so I'm going to stop this share for now so I can see other people a little better um so I think that brings us to we are not doing comprehensive housing policy today postponed um general public comment um so if there is public comment people may speak on the matter within jurisdiction of CRC you're welcome to express your views for one to three minutes um and so we have a member of the public happens to also be a counselor but I have to offer public comment so if anyone including the member of the public is there wishes to make a comment at this time raise your hand and we will recognize you Dorothy is remaining quite quiet right now so I am going to assume she does not want to make a public comment up there we go so I am going to Dorothy I'm going to allow you to talk um you're going to actually get promoted to panelists to do so because of the version of zoom you're using um so patience as you come in Dorothy and once you're in you should be able to I think hold on I think you can change your you can control your own mic Dorothy we can't hear you though I'm not sure there's a mic connected so Dorothy we don't you don't have a mic connected to your computer because I'm not showing any mic I think that is meaning you don't want to talk okay so hard to figure these things out um so we're going to change her back to attendee as we figure it all out and given that um that moves us on to minutes um the planning board will be addressing those two outstanding sets of minutes June 3rd and June 17 tomorrow night so we will address them at our next meeting we will finally have copies of them to be able to address and pass but I want them to pass them before we see them since we were joining their meetings essentially um and then the July 21st minutes I got today so they will be in next week's packet um given that I don't think I have any other announcements next agenda is going to be a continuation of these questions we will settle on them um we will have a final pool of candidates at that point because our statement of interest deadline is the 17th and our meeting is the 18th um so look for I know it's a quick turnaround those statements of interest are due at close of business Monday the 17th our meeting is 2 p.m. Wednesday the Tuesday the 18th it is a quick turnaround I will get them up as soon as I can I was not at we'll have a council meeting that I'm trying to read manager evaluations at 5 30 starting but maybe I'll find some time it's gonna be busy night I will get them up on SharePoint and out to Athena she already knows that they're gonna need posted as soon as possible um so I will probably make sure they're posted before they go out to you or send you copy you guys on the email to Athena to post um so that we can get those statements of interest and know the pool for the meeting on the 18th and then it'll also go up on an agenda and all of that um the agenda will also include housing policy that we postponed and we had said our two to four o'clock meetings on Tuesdays would run through the summer and then we would revisit it I do not know whether two of us will know our school schedules well enough in two weeks to actually be able to no I'm talking about me and Sarah with our kids sorry I might have been set for like two years oh my god no Sarah and I I'm not sure we know what they're doing they're doing where they're going so I I'm going to try and put it on the agenda but I have no idea whether we'll be able to um actually deal with that there is one thing September 15th we shouldn't change the time of that is a two to four o'clock meeting um it is when we have I have confirmed with Dave Zomek that Chris Brestrup and Rob Morrow will be ready to present on zoning bylaw priorities at that time I have to get off I'm sorry that's okay we're almost done so just going through the agenda items um yeah so that meeting will have to stay the same in the same time simply because we've confirmed it um but but we'll see when we can get the rest um yeah and that's it right now that I have for next agendas and plans um if anyone's got any suggestions I think it'll still be a full agenda in two weeks to get through these questions and try and talk about housing to start the talk about housing um so any other thoughts questions announcements seeing none we are going to adjourn at 3 31 p.m yay thank you thank you all bye sleep I know I need to