 Hey Justin. Hey Sal. You ever noticed how much quieter it is when Adam's been around? It's like this weird like calm, you know, like I can gather my thoughts and articulate things without getting interrupted. The mirror's not occupied all the time. I know, but I'll be honest though with all that, I miss that energy. I do a little bit and this month's promotion was Adam's idea. It was. The promotion for... We should keep going with it. We should. And so here's the promo. This is what happens. If you enroll in one of our top bundles, the RGB bundle or the MAPS Super Bundle, you will get two T-shirts for under a dollar. So any, your pick by the way, it could be a MAPS shirt. Sure, super califragilistic X-Pay Audacious. Right. It could be, I don't know what you just said. You could get a MAPS shirt. It could be a mind pump shirt. We have the new kettlebell mic shirts. Those are still available. They're awesome under a dollar for two of them. If we're enrolling in one of those two bundles, now don't forget the RGB bundle is MAPS anabolic, MAPS performance and MAPS aesthetic. That's nine months of broken down exercise programming or take it to the next level, get the super bundle, which includes MAPS prime and MAPS anyway. Not for everybody, but for the most awesome people. It's for the most awesome people. If you're not awesome, don't get that. But if you're awesome, don't even bother. Then you should do those and get your t-shirts. You can find this all at mindpumpmedia.com. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump with your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews. What you're going to hear in this episode is mind pump interviewing and being interviewed by Dr. Brett McCabe. We've had him on before and we love his take in the sports psychology world. I love to hear him break these athletes' minds down and how to better your mind, even if you're not an athlete. He's a sports and performance psychologist. What a lot of people don't realize is in sports, in performance, especially at high levels, the limiting factor for a lot of people is a mental part of it. We get into that and we actually get into a lot of things in this podcast. He actually breaks us down a little bit in there at some point. He breaks us down a little bit, which is pretty cool. It's kind of uncomfortable. You get to hear another side of us, so it's pretty interesting. He's also the author of a book called The Mindside Manifesto. He also hosts his own podcast called The Mindside Podcast, and the website you can find this at is www.themindside.com. He's also on Instagram at Dr. Brett McCabe. Now, Brett is spelled B-H-R-E-T-T. McCabe is M-C-C-A-B-E, or you can also go to at the Mindside. That's got to be Irish or Scottish, right? Say the name. McCabe. McCabe. Hey, McCabe. There you go. You made it a tie-in at first. My bad. No, it's Irish. Okay. So without any further ado, here we are talking to Dr. Brett McCabe. This guy got introduced to Snapchat today. He's like a 12-year-old. Oh, my God. He's so excited. What's the first one he does? The one that puts lipstick in his mouth. Of course. I'm not going to make me look pretty and fancy. That's one thing, though. Snapchat's one thing I haven't gotten into. You know what? Can I tell you something right now? Yeah, just wait. It's not easy. It is fucking impossible to understand. That's my point. It is. It makes no sense. Listen to them. Which is probably because I'm old fogies. Okay. So when I downloaded it, because to me, it's like having way too many baseball cards when I was a kid, is like a whole nother brand came out. Another brand. I'm like, I can't keep up with it. So I downloaded Snapchat and my 16-year-old daughters. I'm like, how do you find people? Exactly. She goes, you just hit that thing where it goes into your contacts. I'm like, but I don't want them to know I'm following them or I'm not following them. Right. I don't want them to get an invitation or something. It's a whole new set of operating skills. It's like, what's going on? So this is, we brought Taylor in. That's exactly what his job is to come in and teach us to be younger. So that's what we... I did it. We all had to... He's trying to make us hip. We had this little... We're losing our cool factor. This pow wow about... We'll be 44 and not having it. I mean... Yeah. It happens. I know. Well, I never had it in the first place. I don't notice anything. I don't notice I lost it. Yeah. It's true. But... That's usually how it happens though. Yeah. You know, you're still wearing the same wardrobe and it's by the past. Yeah. That's what's happened. Yeah, I know. We just... We called them out on that. We get it. Let's get into psychology this. This is the perfect man to be talking about this. That's what that's true. We were just discussing this the other day how... What is that that causes us to get stuck in an era? In the decade. Yeah. Everybody does it. Yeah. We all... And you start... You stop at one point in your life, whether it be in the 20s, 30s, 40s, doesn't matter. Everybody gets stuck in an era. The 20s. They're listening to the same music they were listening to and they're wearing the same shit they were wearing to. What is that? But you know what's crazy about that is when you go back and look at pictures when you were a kid of the people you thought were old. Yeah. And then you look at yourself now and you're older than that person that you thought was ancient. I hate that. Yeah, it happens all the time. I hate that. I used to look at my mom and think, you know... And now I look back. I'm like, my God, she's the same age I was when I thought she was like old. Yeah. Like ancient. Yeah. And I think I think I don't know what the phenomenon is called or why the hell we keep wearing the same clothes and stuff like that. I think it's comfort. I also think it's just people don't want to get out of their comfort zones. I mean, I think that's more of what it is. Is it's, you know... Okay, look, when the whole skinny jean fad came on, I'm not built for skinny jeans. So if you see me in skinny jeans, then, you know, I'm like some British guy that was overweight and ate too much porridge. I mean, just let it go. You know what I think it is? Here's the thing. I think what drives fashion, because if you look at fashion, I don't know if... This guy, this guy's gonna tell us about fashion right now. I know. This is good. Let's hear it. I'm about to educate you. I hope you're recording now. I'm about to educate you, Adam. Everybody sit down. Let's listen. Did you guys know that with high fashion, there used to be only a few seasons? There used to be a few or a couple seasons a year. And now there's tons of seasons because they're trying to churn and burn. There's 52. There's 52 a year now. They want you to buy clothes and get rid of the old ones, because the faster they move through trends, the more clothes they can sell. And fashion is really driven by people trying to fit in, people trying to look like... And the way they set trend is they'll have trend setters, who are typically celebrities or whatever, wear these things. Once you see somebody cool with it on or who's perceived as being cool, that becomes a new trend and everybody thinks it's cool. And when you get older, you just become wiser and you don't care. You see them, you're like, that's stupid. I'm not gonna wear that. It's like Brad Pitt stops at a truck stop and puts a hat on. Whoa, trucker hats, it's so in. Exactly. So I just think you get wiser. And that trucker hat had been planted by somebody to put that on and just throw it on like you just got the tag still on it. Exactly. Exactly. Well, here, yeah, but we... I just never fell for that. We went a little further here because I think that when we're younger, a lot of that is driven by our insecurities, right? Like I want to fit in, I want to look cool, I want to feel cool. And so we do those things. Then we get an age where you go like, oh, then you realize that you connect the dots like, oh my God, I don't need to do this to fit in or look a certain way. And then I remember this. I went through a like Levi's and Haynes white t-shirt only closet for like two years. Like nothing but white t-shirts and just Haynes. And then I think there's an... Then I come full circle again and I go like, well, there is something to be said about dressing nice and feeling good, like cleaning yourself up, wearing a nice outfit that actually goes together. So I think that you're just still stuck and I don't give a fuck here. Maybe or I feel cool regardless. You know what I mean? I am cool. You're comfortable in your own skin. I am cool, therefore I am. There is something cool about a guy though, or a person who sets their own trend. And at first we look at him and go, God, they're so out there. But then you kind of grab it. I mean, you get it. It's like it becomes their identity. Well, I'm probably just the confidence around it. And I'm just going to warn you guys, like just so you guys know ahead of time, I'm like one or two steps away from just being naked all time. So let's not start that today. Don't push that too much. We're not going to have any more gas over if you start talking like that. Let's not get that. That's your same seat and your same sofa. No, I said that. You said this one. Yeah. Okay. That's great. We're upsetting. You know, Brett, the last... He does yoga and nature on top of that. Make it hot yoga. Spray yourself down with some my condo. My condo is all over. Brett, the last time we talked, I wanted to ask you something. Have you seen the movie Moneyball, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. What's your theory on meeting a player and judging about his character by his girlfriend? You remember that part where he says that? Where he says, if his girlfriend's a six, she's not hot, he definitely doesn't have confidence. Yeah, you know, I've heard that. So I've heard that by some college football coaches, too, as you look at which college football coaches are going to be better by judging their wives. Because if they're good recruiters, they're going to out kick their coverage, right? And they've got closing skills. Yeah, they got closing skills. And it is an impressive thing. I mean, we were at the game last night and the tickets that were left for us at the Giants game were by folks that were family. And so we're kind of sitting around, and I mean, I was doing the same thing. I was looking like which guys got married after they were it and which guys got married to the one that they've been dating since they were 12. High school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I think there's some, who's that confidence guy? But you know, the confident guy is usually the one that doesn't really have the most skill set or in life. I mean, it's always the guy that you look at who are at the bars that picks up all the girls. It's not the one you go, oh God, that guy would be the one to pick up all the girls. Yeah. It's the guy that's got to overcompensate and they end up being successful. Yeah. You know, let's define confidence though. Let's define that for a second because you hear people talk about like, oh, that person's so calm. I feel like sometimes it's hard to, it's kind of hard to define because some of the characteristics of someone who's confident can come across as just cocky in someone else. I mean, what does it look like? That's a good question. I mean, confidence, I guess, confidence is kind of like how the Supreme Court defined pornography. You know it when you see it. You know it when you see it. Awesome analogy for that. Yeah. You don't remember? Yeah, that's a real thing. That's literally what they said. I'll know it when I see it. Yeah, I'll know it when I see it. I can't define it in Larry Flint cases. I don't know what it is, but I know it when I see it. I think that's what it is with confidence because working with elite athletes, I've got athletes that may sit there and apologize for the success that they have, but when they're in the heat of the moment, they're confident. Okay, so do we define that person as being confident? I don't know people who are brilliantly confident in life, but they go into work and they're not confident and yet they're brilliant. So to me, confidence is this fleeting moment of knowing what you're able to do. To me, I had an athlete and I kind of wrote it out on a board one day. I had an athlete, we're talking about how to build confidence and success and the results don't always build confidence because if that was the case, then you wouldn't believe you were going to be successful until you had results, but how do you get results if you can't be successful? Sure. So to me, confidence leads to belief and belief is the true master of who we are. If you believe in yourself, if you believe in your ability, you can overcome anything. So belief is I'm always able to meet the demands of the moment. I believe in my ability. Okay, what leads to belief is confidence. Confidence is I know I can do this when it matters. What leads to confidence is trust. Trust, I can do these things, these individual things, and I know I get consistent results. That leads to confidence, which leads to belief. Well, how do we trust? Will we build a plan to get there? And what's the plan come from? A vision. So to me, vision leads to a plan, leads to trust, leads to confidence, leads to belief. But that goes up and down during the course of the time because one of the things that we do is people is once we hit a certain level of confidence, we change the game. We're not comfortable staying where we want to stay. We got to continue to push and we're moving to new domains all the time. So let's take a look at you guys, right? So I'm blown away walking into this studio and those are the people who are listening on the podcast. I want you to understand this is impressive. Thank you. And you guys have a vision, all right? Thanks. And to me, I was driving down the road and I'm like, okay, where is this joint? And I walk in and I'm like, God, this is sweet. Like I'm sitting in my back of my head going, how the hell am I going to build this in my office? Because it's that cool, right? And but you guys have a vision. It takes a lot of sacrifice to get there. So when you first started, you probably said here are my benchmarks that I want to hit and you got confident at that. And now it's going to go to the next one. So what happens in two years if South, you know, South by Southwest, whatever it's called calls you because you guys are a phenomenon. There's going to be a moment where like, damn, right, let's go do it. And then there's going to be a little thought in the back of your mind going, but are we at that level? Because you identify other people and go, they're at that level. But you already are at that level. So that's why confidence kind of waxes and wanes a little bit. Because we always change our target. We as people are not content. We don't survive on contentment. If we did, we wouldn't continue to procreate. We wouldn't grow and our species would have not evolved. So when we become content, we stop living. So confidence is always got to be this thing that it builds and then it gets depleted. And then you get hungry again and you start going again. You know, I think a lot of us look for false ways of confidence, which is the amount of people we put around us, our followers. I mean, look at today's society, it's defined by how many Instagram followers you have. They're hollow. Right. I mean, it's changing the young lady's market. I mean, women are being defined by their Instagram followers, how many likes they get because of how they look. Do you find yourself speaking to this already? Like, are you having to talk to them? I thought you're going to ask, do I find myself looking at likes about how I look? No, I've lost that battle every day. No, no, no, do you? I wax up and oil down and I stand in the mirror and take a selfie. Do you find yourself talking? You should. Speaking to young athletes about this already. You know, I had a conversation yesterday. We were a very, very successful club with some very successful members. And I said, if you look back at the 1980s, you guys are too young for the 80s. I don't know how old you are. We were babies. You were babies. Yeah. And... Doug's 70, so he was young. He's right there with you. So the 80s was this idea, right, of you can do anything if you put your mind to it and get after it. And it was the power of the 80s, anything is possible. The Reagan era, we are proud to be in this world of self-fulfillment. Yeah. It's actually the decade. People don't realize that 80s is the decade that made really modern America. It is. America has become the sole world superpower. CNN did an amazing documentary called This Is The 80s and We Are The 80s. Incredible. It was all about self-fulfillment, but it was... There was this thought of work your ass off, get after it. The American dream, right? And it came out of the World War II, which was the World War II, folks, because I remember those were the parents of the kids in the 80s. World War II is we defined our culture. We defined our society. The 60s was a lot of pride. The 70s was expansion. And then it came back into, okay, let's build. The 90s was, you can do anything you want if you come up with something innovative. And the 2000s was a little bit that. The generation today is I can do anything. And they forgot the other two parts. That's so well said. So because they forgot the other two parts, that's why we've got snowflakes. That's why we got people who get pissed off so easily. They get their feelings hurt when you don't tell them something's not right. Versus going, look, I'm always gonna have adversity. I've gotta build confidence. I'm gonna grow. And it's working to get to that level. So what happens is we got, instead of people who are dreamers and builders, we got a lot of frustrated, pissed off people that have no money in the bank and no emotional money in the bank, no confidence money in the bank. And so they walk around frustrated and then they start transferring blame to everybody, telling them why they got screwed over. Versus saying, you know what, let me get my hands on the dirt. Now, driving around here and driving up 280 and 101 and seeing Silicon Valley, it's inspiring to think that these small businesses were created with a plan and now they're world powers. I mean, you feel the sense of innovation here and you see that and you guys are in the seat of that. And you guys probably take it for granted because you're totally right. So many of these companies are not even 10 years old and they run the world. Google hasn't been around that long and it literally- Google, Netflix, Apple, we got them all in our back yard, Facebook, all of it. It's crazy, but what you're talking about with the decades leading up to the 80s and then coming to now, it's like you have tough times. The 60s was like this expansion, learn about ourselves, kind of break free from some of these societal molds. The 70s was excess in that particular regard. Our economic system was horrible at the time which bred the 80s and it's almost like tough times makes good people, good people bring good times, good times makes weak people make bad times. And it's like the cycle that you see. Absolutely. And what we've had from 80s, 90s and now is a lot of good times, a lot of growth, a lot of good times and a lot of like, take that shit for granted. Yeah, look at the- I mean, I'm not a finance guy. We're not gonna get into finance here, but look at where the Dow Jones is right now. We're supposedly not in a great economic time. It's all time high and I don't understand. I mean, we make decisions, we refine. I mean, it's the same thing in life. We grow, we do, we learn, we grow, we do, we learn. The learning is the part that nobody wants to do. Everybody wants to grow, do, succeed, grow, do, succeed. But if you don't learn, you keep repeating the same problems. And I think mentally or psychologically, that is where a lot of people struggle is, they've failed to learn, so they repeat their lessons. Well, you wanna stay, what causes people to grow? It's pain. Nobody grows from comfort and where everything's great. You have to go into pain and nobody wants to be pain. So what was the fertilizer back in the day? Before we had, it was cow shit. So I always tell people when you plant your seeds, you have to push through a lot of crap to succeed. And that's what fertilizer is. You gotta push through inches of crap in order to push through to that higher level. Nobody wants to do that, nobody wants to do that. They wanna buy it in a pot already and say, you just give me the one last step to go. And it doesn't matter what brand you're building, it doesn't matter what athletic environment you're building. There are those who will do whatever it takes and are willing to make any sacrifice necessary to succeed. And we continue to see those patterns continue to succeed. But what I'm afraid of is in our society today we don't see that as the standard. We see that as they're just different. But to me to be successful and to build that confidence and have a vision and a plan is you gotta do the uncommon things to become extraordinary. What are coaches having to do with athletes now that's different than 20 years ago? Because now they're dealing with that everybody gets a trophy generation. Yeah, well everybody gets a trophy generation as the parents. The kids and because of Travel Bowl and AAU and all these they're gonna play five games in a weekend. So for me growing up as a baseball player we may play two games in a weekend, but it was live or die. Now they're gonna play five in a weekend doesn't matter if we went three and two. I mean we wanna win, but it's okay. And so parents are coddling the kids like, it's okay, it's okay, you got another bat. You're doing good. And a little bit is there's a researcher out of around here by the name of Carol Dweck who coined the term growth mindset and said that there are two types of mindsets of people. There's a fixed mindset where people are always trying to prove what they're capable of. And then, you know, so there's a stress and they don't grow a lot. And then there's the growth mindset, which is really one of the greatest words you can use is the word yet. I haven't figured it out yet. In other words, I will, I believe in my abilities, but I'm learning every day. We've become so growth mindset when somebody struggles, we're like, it's okay, you'll get it soon. And so we don't allow them to feel the adversity and the struggle. So we say, move it off. Well, then they go to elite colleges and are playing and the coach doesn't want to say, it's okay. They want to say, figure it out as soon as you can because I'm relying on you. And the kids sit there with this attitude of like, why are they being hard on me? But it's because nobody's ever been hard on them. Because what happens if they're hard? Mom and dad go to the school and say, coach is being hard. Look, in Alabama where I live, high school football is so prominent that high school coaches are making significant money and they're being fired after losing seasons. Now, remember, they are teachers at a school first, but most of them don't teach anymore. They are in a full-time football coach. Now they may teach a drivers out over the summer, but their job is to be a football coach. Well, they get 10,000 people at a football game, you know, on a good game. So there's this pressure. Well, if the parents don't like what's going, what do they do? They create a movement to eliminate the coach. Wow. It's happening in college. Oh, wow. Yeah. And if you get enough parents who are going to the athletic directors and the compliance department and all that, they can come up. This isn't the Baylor situation. That was God-awful and should be, that athletic department should blown up for the rape cases. But we're talking about coaches that may, I mean, I've heard situations and worked with people who've, the coach got fired because their tone with the players was not constructive. Oh my God, really? Yeah. Wow. And it just builds. And so you turn, you cross one parent, that parent, you know, apathy spreads like a virus. So if I'm ticked off and feel powerless in my situation and I choose to feel that way, then I'm going to try to recruit you because it's easier for me to recruit you to see my side than to change my perspective. Right. So I may miss on you, but I'll find you because you're ticked off about something too. And I may find you and then all of a sudden, one to three to 10 and all of a sudden, we have a movement now. And it started from discontent. And so that once that was with athletic directors and those organizations, unless that coach has unbelievable clout and respect over years, they don't want to deal with it. Wow. Because it's just easier to move on. So that parent unwound, and I think parents, they do it inadvertently at first. They love their kids so much that they're actually hurting them. Yeah. You know, I have, I have two kids and it hurts me just like any other parent when I see my children fail at something or try something and not do what they thought they could do into experience pain, lose a game, or get a bad score in a test or whatever. I love my kids more than anything and I see that, but I also savor those moments because I know that the lessons with, there's lessons within those moments. It's an opportunity. I always look at it that way like, okay, they just lost the game, performed poorly. Here's a great opportunity to teach my kid something. And I actually had this with my daughter not that long ago. She came home and she prides herself and doing good in her school work and she likes to show me and what she did. And she came home and she showed me that she got, she did a test or whatever and she's only in first grade. And she got eight out of 10 and she showed me, you know, look, I got eight out of 10. You know, that's really good. And I said, do you think it's really good? And she said, I think so. And I said, did you try really hard with this test? And she's like, I think so. I said, did you try your hardest? And she's like, I don't, she was confused. Like, what do you mean? I said, do you think you could have got those other two right if you had tried harder? And you could see the wheels turning. And she said, well, yeah, but isn't this good? And I said, if you think it's good, it's good. I said, but don't tell yourself you tried your hardest if you didn't. And I'm just being honest with her. I'm not pressuring her or anything. And I just want her to understand that, you know, if you do your absolute best, that's something you got to be honest with. And then if you get an eight or a 10, then that's fine. But if you get an eight, but you could have done better, be honest with yourself. And if you're okay with that, that's okay. Yeah. And I've had those conversations with my kids and people cringe. But the reality is you don't, it's not like you're putting undue pressure on that. It's not like I'm saying you're grounded or, you know, you need to be a particular way or whatever, because it's not a bad thing that she did or, you know, that kids will do. But they themselves understand that they can do better if they work harder and that they didn't apply themselves fully, which is okay again, but it don't lie to your kids. That's what I hate when parents lie to their kids. You watch your kid play a sport and you can obviously tell your kid's not trying. And then they lose and it's like, oh, it's all right, buddy. You gave it a good, don't lie to your kid. Like, tell him like, look, you lost because you weren't really trying. I could tell you weren't really, you know, trying while you were playing. And that's fine if that's what you want to do. But what I want parents to understand though is and people who are listening to this is when you're judging that, don't just judge the behavior. Ask why the behavior is happening. So are they not trying because they're afraid? Are they not trying because they don't understand? Are they not understanding? Are they not trying because they don't believe in themselves? Are they not trying because they're actually overwhelmed? And one thing I always tell parents is when you're coaching your kids in life, in school, in anything, be very careful to judge the not trying because it's like I'm opening up a MacBook and you opened up too many apps and then you decide to open up iPhoto. And now you get the spinning circle of death, right? The computer looks like it's not trying. What's really happening is there are six things behind the scenes that are spinning. And those six things behind the scenes are spinning so hard that it's working down its ability to engage. And that's what the athletes are doing. So, and kids too, but what you said was so brilliant is, look, as parents, we can't tell them it's okay all the time. It's going to be, you'll work through this. That's what I want people to tell them. It's not, it's okay. So, in school, if you only make A's, what are you learning? It's exactly. There's a problem there. Every one of us knows our instructors. I know my instructors in high school, college, grad school, even my supervisors on residency or internship, they would sit there and I can remember the ones that got their foot up my rear end, told me I wasn't good enough in something, and I thanked them for doing that. Now, if they were sitting in this room, would I be still probably a little elevated heart rate and a little nervous around them? Heck yeah. But that's what makes us better. I mean, think about you guys on Yale's business and your vision. What in the last six months, what have y'all screwed up that you've gotten better about? Plenty. Let's talk about an example. Well, let's, no, let's do talk about everything. Let's, no, no, we literally were just talking about it off air is this social media thing. And for us, we're a media company. It's kind of important that we got that down. But yet we're also 35 plus years old, so there's a major disconnect from these platforms and there's a part of us that wants to say we don't need it. We're fucking good enough to build this podcast, build this business without it because we've already got enough people that are listening to us, that are calling us, that are emailing us and kind of neglected it. And we kind of half ass did it. And there's now been this realization that we need to focus on this. This is going to be not only a major part of our business, but in the next 10 plus years, it will become necessary for this generation that's coming up. So we have to learn this, especially if we're going to be a media company. So the steps, the growth that we've had just in the last month. So, so I'm going to interrupt you. You just hit me when you thought, probably because I'm drinking that coffee. Good stuff. It is great stuff. And I'm sitting here and my mind is going like 4,000 miles an hour. I warned you. But it's like, okay, I'm going to help myself here. Watching Friends, the show Friends. Everyone watches it, right? You guys did, right? Yes. Okay. Totally. Totally. Friends and Seinfeld. Yeah, Seinfeld. Yeah, going back and watch Seinfeld, I'm not as hip on as I used to be. No, really? The acting is not as good as it was. But anyway, but when you look at how that show evolved, okay, that was an impressive evolution of a show. That's why it's stayed around so long. It's exactly right. They were innovative and they did things differently. And it wasn't like they were doing crazy laugh tracks or anything like that. The writing was innovative. And I think that's why Big Bang Theory is kicking ass right now too. It is pushing the limits, but not the limits of raunch. It's pushing the limits of what we are comfortable in learning from. But if you go back and look at the early sets of Friends to where it finished, it was more visually entertaining. It was more engaging. I think it's an amazing thing to look back. So everybody evolves. But we're talking before we went on air of how these social media platforms are changing everything. Where are we going to be in 10 years? And it's scary for us at our age. I mean, we're about to add a social media and marketing person in our business because we need somebody who's got a pulse. What are we going to hire, a 14-year-old? Because I need to know exactly what's happening in the business because that's our clientele. It's intimidating to me. You know, something you said earlier really struck hard for me. And you said, and we were talking about kids, why maybe they're not trying because of fear. And that really hit me because I think that is a bigger issue than we all realize. Whether we're more common. And an adult, and I'll tell you why. I'll use myself as an example. This is why it hit me so hard. When I was in elementary school, I was always on honor roll. And school for me was just, it was so unmemorable. So easy, I'd show up and I'd get A's and it was like whatever. So they sent a letter home to my mom and it was, we wanted to test your son for GATE. GATE was gifted and something. And never got one of those. Yeah, so it was like, my mom was so excited. Oh my God. I applied and failed. They're going to test you for GATE. You're going to take all these really advanced classes and we're so proud of you and whatever. And when I got the test, I was afraid to apply myself because it's one thing to fail when you're not trying because then you're like, I don't care. Yeah, that's so true. There's another thing to fail when you tried really hard. And that's scary. Very scary. That is deep. It hurts more. Because you actually failed. Yes. You actually failed. And I remember that distinctly. I distinctly remember failing on purpose because I don't want to try hard and fail. And that's happened throughout. I've had to challenge myself with that throughout my whole adulthood. Like you're going to play a basketball game with someone or you're going to work out with someone or you're going to do something with someone and you're like, well, fuck this guy or this girl or whatever is better than me. I'm just not going to try hard because if I don't try hard then it's okay that I lost or I didn't succeed or I'm not going to try hard at this business. Like I totally can't because it fails. I can always look back and say, and that is huge. Yes. It's massive. And it's almost a fear of success. And I struggled that when I was pitching in college. A fear of success. And I was going to have to repeat that level of success every time out. And you're exactly right. People hold back because that hold back is their safety net. Because they can look in the mirror and go, but if I had done that, it is hard to look in the mirror and say, I gave everything. And I still didn't do it. And I still failed. And I look back at things in my life and business. When I left a very successful corporate job to go back into being a psychologist, I had this vision of what I wanted to be in the sport stuff, but I wanted to be raw. And I remember telling my wife, my daughter was a freshman in high school. She's now finishing her second year of college. And we didn't have a college plan. We had kids young, we were in grad school. So we were trying to still put our stuff together. And I left a very successful job where a lot of my expenses were covered in life. I mean, most of my meals, my car, my car insurance, I mean, health care. And here I am going out on my own. My wife didn't work. And I remember telling her, but I want to invest in, I want to bet on me. And I said, look, if something happens, I could go back to work and find a job. But I am going to do whatever it takes. And I tell everybody, I will lick the concrete out there for revenue. And now we're at a spot where I can be a little bit more selective. But I have done things, I'm not going to say that I'm ashamed of, but I've done things that I look back and go, that was crazy. And, but why don't we do that in everything in our life? And it took me to get to that point where it was something I really, really wanted. And I don't know if I'm going to succeed at this. I don't know how we even define success. But it's just like you guys doing this. If you always are holding back something, then you're not being authentic to you in the world. I believe people wear two things. They wear a mask because they show the world what the world wants them to see. Or they think they want- What we think the world wants to see. Correct, coffee. No problem. And we also wear a backpack. And our backpack is every burden and fear we just keep filling our backpack. So the problem is that what we're trying to display to the world is this perception of what we think the world needs to see from us. We're making an assumption that's not even accurate. That's why when we really strip it all down, we take off our mask and we sit there and we go, I am who I am me. It's actually where connection happens. That's why in relationships, when we become truly vulnerable to each other, usually after an argument, I mean, that's why the passion is so high after an argument is we're vulnerable. But in our world, we don't want to take off that mask. If you think about just in your industry fitness, I know in my industry in the mental game, there's so many masks being worn. It's worse in our industry, I think. It's crazy. Yeah, it is. It's so superficial. It's so superficial. And there's so many people that have these businesses that are bigger than they really are. And I'm not saying that you can't do that, but they project themselves as flying on private jets and doing all this. And then they leave the tarmac and then they take the greyhound. Well, what's great is all that is, I mean, upending. The tide is turning with that. And I think that I could even attribute a lot of our success to that simple fact alone that we really had to come out and be honest and challenge ourselves to be vulnerable like that and let people know the real deal, like the behind-the-scenes things, like what you really need to focus on. But what did it take when I asked you when we were sitting out there about your business and you guys are doing this full-time? And that's why I asked the question is, do you guys still have a training business? Because I was waiting to see is, is this all in or is this just testing the water? Now, I love the fact that y'all are all in. No, we're all in. Yeah, and that makes you hungry. You have to take the mask off because now you can't see fully when you have a mask on. So when we were willing to go all in, now you didn't do it recklessly, you had a plan. But also the other backside is these burdens that we carry, filling the perceptions of our parents, our family, our friends, the fears and the doubts, we carry that and it weighs us down. Look, clear out your backpack, take off your mask and be you. That's what you guys do. That's why your media, the podcast and YouTube, it engages because it is you. There are warts. There are mistakes. There are, oh look, let's go back, but I'm not afraid to leave everything on the table. Well, one thing we did and we continued to try to do is number one, we challenge each other and more, I have grown, I'll tell you what, I have grown personally grown more in the last two and a half years that I've been working with these gentlemen than I did in the previous 20. I mean, I'm not exaggerating the same thing. And it's two things. The first thing is you almost have to learn to enjoy the painful growth process and seek it out because if you don't, you constantly run from it. So it's like, oh, here's an opportunity for growth. Here's some pain. Okay, cool. I love that. I gotta, you gotta tell yourself you love it and go for it. And the second thing is early on we, and this was not planned. This actually wasn't planned. This was almost, I hate to say instinctual, but it kind of happened this way where we branded ourselves, like it's part of our brand. It's part of mind pump to be vulnerable and to make mistakes. And one of the ways we do that is we let our audience constantly know the mistakes we make and what we're planning on doing, what we're doing. Very little is done behind the scenes where audience doesn't know about. And now it's part of our design, but initially we just kind of did it that way and it's really set us up well to where, if we fuck up, when we will, if everybody fucks up, right? They're a part of the process. They understand it becomes a part of our brand and actually helps us. Because I think among all of the other detriments to wearing a mask in a backpack is if you are that business, if you are that individual that wears a mask in a backpack and you're really good at it, because there's a lot of people that are really good at it. That master wearing a mask is the second there's a crack in that mask and people see through it, your business is fucked. Once you've built up that, and then they jump and then they destroy you. People love to just smash it. The lynch mob comes. Do you know how hard it is to make fun of or poke fun at the three of us? Any of us. It's very difficult because we'll do it first. And we'll laugh at it and have a good time with it. And now we've realized it's actually given us strength because we've started that way. Whereas if you put out this persona all the time, like you see this with fitness personalities all the time, right? I'm always fit. I'm always ripped. I'm always buffed. I'm always strong. And then they'll be seen somewhere and they're off season and they're fat and they're whatever or they're working out and they're moving like shit and somebody will catch them on camera or snap it. And next thing you know, that shit goes viral and it's ruined their brand. There's one gentleman, I can't remember his name. He puts that persona of being this tough macho, buff, good looking, super great guy. And I guess he was coming off an airplane and he had his hat off and he's got like this total receiving hairline and it's picture. And that shit went viral and people make in front of him. That wouldn't have happened had he let himself be vulnerable and be himself from the beginning. But it's because he created this false. Oh, that's, I mean, 100%. We've been teasing about my thinning hair since the very first day, right? Oh, I got it. So, here it comes. So when you call it out like that, I mean, that is a lot of mind pump raw truth. But I also think that that is going to be where everybody is going to have to go in the next 10 with all this ability to connect to us. Boy, how hard is it to wear a mask? Okay, well, it's, well, we just find new and innovative ways to do it. That's true. Okay, but the truth is our environment has no control over us unless we give it that control. Now, I know we all hear the thing. If you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life. I mean, I work every day. I work at getting better. I work at trying to be the best that I can be. So I'm working every day. I'm never off. And, you know, I hear people say, if you just love all this prosperity comes to you. Yeah, I mean, I'm the same. Yeah, the secret. You know what the problem with the secret was? Tell me what the problem is. Fuck you. Yes. Yeah. Here's the problem with the secret. Everybody loves it. It was the law of attraction. It wasn't the law of doing. Everybody went out and bought this book. We should write that book. Yeah, the law of doing. Yeah. Step one, nobody would find your goal. Step two, work to it. Nobody would buy it though. Nobody would buy it. It reminds me of the joke. Man, their cries work. It reminds me of the joke of the guy who's like, he keeps praying to God and he wants to win the lottery and he prays and then he prays and prays and prays and then God finally, you know, he's talking to God and he's like, God, you know, I've been praying to you forever to win the lottery. What the fuck, man? I haven't won anything. God's like, you got to buy a goddamn lottery ticket. Yeah, exactly. So that's the secret. It's like, it's going to come to me if I attract this. Look, I'm a spiritual guy. I was raised Catholic. I believe in spirituality. I believe spirituality is the step beyond religion where you don't ask, you know, I love organized religion. I don't personally attend an organized church right now, but to me, religion is when you go, you ask the question and somebody gives you the answer. Spirituality is knowing to ask the question then on your own search to find your own answers. And I think when we get to, and we're not going to go that way in this podcast, but to me, that's what we're all about life, right? So the secret is, you know, I'm going to attract it. I think what missed in the secret or maybe the message was in there and it was missed was when people are in love with, with what they do and they're committed to growing, they become magnetic because they're asking questions to other people. They're learning from great leaders. They're, they become attractive to others because they're on a constant thirst. Nobody likes to hang around with a know-it-all. Everybody loves to hang around people who have similar interests that are in similar mindsets who are wanting to learn in Hungary. That's why incubators work. Okay. That's why Silicon Valley has so much innovation because there are people. You're surrounded by. You're surrounded by innovative people who are asking questions and ripping the mask off for the most part and saying, these are the warts with our business. Help me figure out this, this policy. Let me, and to your point, I mean, look at what we do with our, with our celebrities. They're photoshopped and made up so perfectly that when they catch them walking the streets, there's an entire show of TMZ about it. Right. Yeah. And it's, it's what it's showing is, oh my God, she's, she's, you know, she's not wearing her spanks today. And she's got a little jiggly going on. Right. And everybody's freaking out. And the next thing you know, poor thing is having to restrict eating just to maintain this image. Well, I think it's hard, and this is just human psychology. Maybe you can, you can help me on this. But I think it's hard to truly understand how many opportunities you create for yourself simply because you're in a state of, where you're passionate about what you're doing. And we can use sports. Like if you're swinging a bat at a ball, the odds of connecting go up if you get more pitches thrown at you. It's just the bottom line. Well, if I'm passionate about my business or I'm passionate about this growth or this whatever goals I have, I'm more likely to talk about it throughout the day. I'm more likely to connect to people who maybe have information that is related to what I'm looking to do. I'm more likely to meet people who may have influence in this particular field. And so really what's really happening, and it's very basic, is I'm just getting more balls pitched to me. I'm just, it's just more opportunities. And then when something happens, we're like, oh my God, it's serendipitous. It's like magic. No, I mean, really the reality is, you're just getting more opportunities because you're following what you want to do. And everybody can relate to this. When you're passionate about something, you tend to talk about it and think about it a lot. I mean, you get annoyed on people's nerves about it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But to your point about how many doors you got to knock on in order to find the one that is your magic door. We see overnight successes, but what we forget is there's tons of sleepless nights and overnight successes. And there's very rarely, as somebody ever, I mean, Pamela Anderson maybe was picked up at a football game where all of a sudden they said, you're going to be the next superstar for modeling. I mean, this is 25 years ago. That doesn't happen. And there's a vision. To me, great people have a stubbornness that is unremitting. The stubbornness is not stubborn about what they're doing. Well, there is that. I mean, there's some media consultant came in and said, y'all got to change what you're doing. You got to do this. Y'all would probably say, that's not our vision. Now, help us, but don't change us. That's fine. You got to be stubborn to what your vision is. We fired three companies before, Taylor. Really? Yeah. Yeah. My point. And the stubbornness is not about being stubborn to say you can't take feedback. That's a mistake. The stubbornness is I am never going to give up. And what information, what thing in this environment am I going to allow to control my innovation, my interest, my motivate? When we start giving power to our environment, then we're lost. We become within a hurricane or a tornado. I mean, we're at the will of our environment. When we believe with a deep-seated conviction of what we want to do and we're willing to grow and be hungry and bring people in, then that's why they grow. And that's why we're successful. I mean, LeBron James, make-o-down is one of the greatest basketball players of all time. He's truly innovative. But when he was first up, he was a shooter from the outside and a driver. He didn't know how to post up. So when he had a mismatch and was up against a smaller guy, he lost his advantage. So he spent an entire summer with a Kimmelajewan and said, teach me how to post up. So that dude with the greatest tools in the world went and found another tool. My God. So why are we looking for physical gifts all the time? It's what I call capacity. Can you meet the demands of the moment? And very few people have the balls to let it out and not worry about proving their underlying ability. That's called capability. Very few people are willing to sacrifice that discussion to say right here, right now, this is what we're living for. And I'm willing to do it. I may not be a hundred percent, but damn, I can give 90 percent. I can give a hundred percent of my 90. And I can meet the demands of the moment. Well, what do we have to let go of to do that fear? We have to have a lot of conviction of what we want. We have to let go of social acceptance. We have to let go of a lot of things. Now there are steps that you can do that'll help you with this. One of the things that I learned recently, and you hear this all, it's funny too, because you'll learn things that you kind of knew or heard, but you never really got. And then one day you get it and you're like, oh, well, that's now I understand. You know, we all hear the whole, you know, the journey of a thousand miles begins with one step and, you know, most of the problem or the stress or whatever that you're dealing with has to do with your own self and your own mind. And the actual thing you're stressed about isn't nearly as difficult or stressful as you think. And I don't remember where I was hearing this. I think it was, it might have been a POW or someone who was talking about like, how did you get through, you know, that period of time where you were just in this horrible conditions? And he said, well, I broke everything up into hours. You know, like I can survive anything for 60 minutes. Like if I think to myself, I'm going to be here for five years. I mean, that's ridiculous. It's daunting. Or if I'm going to run a marathon, and I think of it, you know, 26 miles like, ah, but I know I can run half a mile. So I'm going to run a half a mile at a time. And I started applying this. I just, you know, recently went through some very difficult times kind of one after another. And I started applying that. And instead of looking, oh my God, you know, this is going to take two years to work out or organize. I just started breaking things up into like weeks and days. Like, okay, today I'll do this. And to the next day I'll do this. And before you know it, you've gotten there. And it's really, you start to really realize how much of the difficulty in the things that you do are just, you created them. You create, I mean, and stress is a real thing. We all need to have stress. It motivates us to do certain things. But when that stress becomes a cycle of worry, and you start to suffer from it, you start, you're suffering, and you're just thinking about this thing over and over again, and you're not moving forward, that's when it becomes a problem. Well, and the reason it does that is because we give power to it. We give power to the things to impact us. And when we feel out of controls, when we feel powerless, so it's a little bit of a cycle. But in life, if you go, that is a demand that I need to meet. That's what's called stress. Stress is an external demand or internal demand being placed on us. We don't know what we can handle until we fill up our dump truck. And so I always use an example for my clients and athletes. Stress is how we know as a bridge, it's over a big canvas, a big canyon. And it has a weight limit. And that's great. They build it, trucks go over it, no problem. When is the stress going to hit that? Well, we don't know until we overload it and we find the cracks. Then the engineers come in and say, we need to reinforce this, we need to reinforce that. If we looked at stress that way, and said, look, stress will always find the crack, water will always find a crack at us. So under stress, we'll identify our areas of improvement. If we can take that just like you, you found a new way to persevere versus feeling powerless. You found a strategy, a coping mechanism to push through. That is something that will help you in times because we go in cycles. So there's times that we're flying and there's times that we're crashing. And if you don't learn how to overcome these, then we repeat those patterns because you have to learn the strategy. And the strategy is yours. I can't use your strategy. I got to find my own. Now I can say, I know that worked for you. Let me investigate it. But if you don't put your own stamp on it, then what you don't do is you don't know how to manage your own stress. So stress, I want people to look at stress as, man, that's a gift. It is an absolute gift. It hurts terribly. We know the long-term effects on stress on the human body. It's well documented. It enhances just about every medical condition. It amplifies the suffering that comes with it. It shortens lives. Okay, so we'll get out of that part. But it also allows us to go back and find what we need to do. Most of us try to add things under stress. Sometimes we need to eliminate. We need to eliminate people who are sucking the energy off of us. We need to eliminate the tasks that aren't proven what we need it to be. We need to reinvest in ourselves. And that's taking control back and power back. And this is why the fitness industry, because that's our field, right? And I can connect it very strongly what you're saying to the industry that we've all worked in for so long. This is why the fitness industry has done such a poor job of solving the health problems that we're suffering in modern societies. Like, if you look at... Obviously, we'll just use American as an example and we look at the obesity epidemic and the diabetes epidemic and the autoimmune disease epidemic and children now are displaying diseases that were only adults got. Correct. And by the way, this has only been over the last 30 years. In before the 1980s, I think it was children didn't get type 2 diabetes. In fact, it used to be called adult onset diabetes. That was the name of it because it happened as an adult. Now we have kids have it and they change the name. Anxiety is another one. You look at 4% of Americans were diagnosed with anxiety in 1980. Today, it's over half. And you look at all these problems and the fitness industry grew along with it and it's done nothing to help it. And the reason why it's done nothing is it's not empowered people at all. Oh, no. If anything, it's taken power away. We mark it to insecurities. We poke at the insecurities to get them to buy things knowing damn well that they're not going to succeed, that over 85% of them are actually going to fail and we don't give a fuck because we're getting the money. And so when you... You make money off people not showing up. That's how gyms work. That's how... Yeah, one of the largest boxes. Yeah, I want to sell a bunch of memberships. We don't want you to show up because it's crowded. And that's crazy. It is crazy. Right? And to your point, anxiety is spiking in this country. And it's spiking because we never have... We're never off. These smartphones are constantly... If you go on vacation, you need your phone. But what's in your phone? Your emails, your tasks, your messages, everything. So you can't turn off, right? We feel powerless to things. Power is the source of everything. So I'll give you a very simple clear example of that. So I have terrible navigating abilities. Terrible. Like... He does. You could put me... I could... Honest to God, I will get lost walking out of our own gym. We almost went to Mexico one time. Yeah. It's horrible. And so... You're just trying to go to Chipotle. So I know, right? Navigation on our... Mexican food, he's like... You know, the nav on your phone is brilliant for me because I don't get lost. But a couple times... And I get anxiety over. I get anxiety over getting lost because I always get lost. Recently, I went to a couple places and I said, you know what? I got my phone there just in case something happens. I'm going to go there and I'm going to find my way on my own. Let's see if I can remember. And I did actually got there. I actually paid attention. I got there. But the feeling I got from it was so... I felt so empowered. Yeah. I felt so good about it. Now think about that. You go on vacation. You have your phone with you. Everything's planned. You got all these emails. What if you just shut off for a second? Got this one. And then a day later, you're like, wow, nothing fell apart. That's the only benefit I see of a cruise. I mean, there's other things that I don't like a cruise, but that is one when you're out of seat. I mean, you can't get your stuff. It's awesome. But then the anxiety starts building as you're getting closer to port because you're going to turn it on. But it goes back to our conversation about parents and kids. Remember that thing about you'll get through this. You're not going to get over it and it's not going to be okay. When that kid, that youth athlete, and whatever it is in life, you make a 60 on a test and you come back and you rock the next one because you figured out a plan. That is empowering. And people start realizing, wait a minute, I can control my destiny. I can influence it. And we get so caught up on the hurt and the pain versus the build. And that's why I love the stories that you often see on like ESPN 360 or whatever and they're telling these great stories because those are just nothing about building and people identifying these fears in their lives. And then they knock it out of the park and you're like, rock on because they're human. You're cheering for them. You're cheering for them. And so to me, it's almost like we should have, every business should have a white board in it with our screw-ups and leave them up on the board and remember them. And that way you look at them and go- Then we'll pee on them. And pee on them. Yeah. What? I don't know. That was in the field right there. Next to Marcus territory. I'd say it's kind of, you know, no. So you got to look at that and go, I know where I came from. I know where I came from. And I know what I learned from it. But sometimes that scares a little crap out of me because if I see those and I've overcome them, what's around the bend? That's why you don't like getting lost. You don't like that feeling of not knowing where you are. But you know, to use that Zen meditation, but there you are always there. When you found your way, you realize, okay, I'm not as bad as I think I am. And I can figure it out. I mean, what do I always do? Well, here's something that we're running into. That we've run into now a few times. And maybe you can help us with this. Actually, I've been, I was really happy when I knew you were coming here because this was something I knew you could probably help us with. As we started, now we've all been in the industry, fitness industry for a very long time. So this has been a long road. And when it's not an overnight, it's not an overnight. No, I don't believe in that. You know, it's like, there was many overnight. Yeah, I mean, I mean, I own my own business for, you know, since the age of 22. And you know, mine pump was the first one to really make it happen in this particular industry. But it's been a culmination of all that. And the same thing, you know, I can speak for these guys. I know their history as well. But something that's happened to us is when we first started, you know, this business with this vision, we went after it unabashedly. And then we got some success. And we found ourselves in situations, and luckily they were short because we're very good at catching ourselves. But they'll happen where instead of playing to win, we start to play to not lose. Like, oh, shit, all of a sudden, we've got this thing now. We can't be... We want to protect it. We can't be as like, as, you know, innovative and as aggressive. And we can't be our true selves as much as before because that's kind of risky. We got to protect what we just built. And then we catch ourselves and we like, fuck that, like... We got a brand new audience that we just absorbed. We can't scare them off right away with, you know, being ourselves. Ah! Yeah, and it becomes this like battle now. I've noticed this with us is that we go through these growth spurts and it becomes this battle of, you know, are we playing to win or are we playing to not lose? You know, it's like that boxer in the ring and he's just running around because he thinks he's ahead on points and he doesn't want to fight because, God forbid, he gets punched. Floyd Mayweather. But that's, you know, when you're jumping on a trampoline and you get to the very top, there's that moment of like kind of fears you start coming back down. Like you get in this weightlessness point. It's like, oh my God, it's just a momentary thing. That's what happens. You know, when I use an example, a lot of people who've climbed Mount Everest, it's something I'll never do. I mean, I have no interest in taking 10 weeks of my life instead of on the side of a mountain and I'm not going to do it. But they don't just climb to the top. They go up, they come back down, they go up, they come back down, they go up, they come back down, they go up and they keep pushing to reclimatize to the oxygenation issues and the body demands and then they start building up that strength. Now, these are people who've been fit for nine months. I actually didn't know that's how that works. Yeah, they have to get acclimated before they can do the whole climb. Makes a lot of sense. It makes total sense. I just never even thought about that. I know. Wow. It's a long process. So it is. That's why it takes nine weeks. And there's a guy in Birmingham that I've interviewed on my podcast, Kent Stewart, who has climbed, he's been on the mountain three times and he talks about that. About, you know, when you first leave base camp, you have to go through the Kumba ice falls, which is an act of glacier. And he's like, falls. It's like you fall if you make a mistake. I mean, like to your death. So every day when you leave base camp, you got to check in a moment of like, I'm going to go through one of the most dangerous places ever. You go up to base camp, you know, to camp one, then you turn around and you go back down. And you keep doing that to build up the ability. Well, that's what success is. So if I'm working with an athlete, you know, we all want to be, you know, in the far right and the same with business. I want to take over the world where you're not ready. You're honest. Some people do it. Some people win that lottery. And they quickly figure it out. Okay, they're going to have to learn the lesson at some point. But most of us have to go and fall, go and fall, go and fall. But what we're actually doing is growing. The line is, you know, the regression line is definitely going up. But what's happening is when we fall a little bit, we don't fall as deep and we don't fall as far. And we don't actually fall for as long. And then we, up we go again. So for you guys, for me, you know, when I started, I did the exact same thing. And I still do. I don't want to lose this client base. I don't want to lose this one client. And I'll sometimes work harder to keep the client and then give them everything I've got. Because I'm afraid to lose them. But I never think in my mind, well, I could get another client. And what did I learn from that client? You know, that's often what I have to ask myself is, when I'm working with this team, what did I learn about me? I worked with a very talented golfer on the tour who challenged me every day. And it was a challenge. And the kid is very successful. Very proud of his success. And we have a good relationship. But he challenged me. And what I realized is never sacrifice what I believe because, you know, he was very good at finding the areas that you lacked your most confidence. So he was very good at it. And it was just, it was the way he adapted is he would push you until he found an area where you weren't as confident and then you kind of attack. So what I found is if I'm on the defense, he'll find it every time. But if I'm giving them everything I got, if it's not good enough, so be it. And I learned a lesson. And I remember sitting down with my wife who runs my business. She's like, look, you have got to give them what they're hiring you for. And if it's good enough, it is. If it's what they want, wonderful. If it's not, they'll go somewhere else. Same thing with you guys. You don't have to win everybody in this marketplace. Because, and I get caught up on that. I mean, last, yesterday, actually, I was hitting social media. And I, for some reason, tend to be a source of some sub-tweeting. And it pisses me off. I mean, it like hurts because these people, one, don't know me. They don't ask my questions. And I say what I believe, but I'm also not. I also have this underneath. I'm just a soft kitty. The fact is, I want people to like me. Okay, I want to be accepted. I mean, that's what we all want. And when I see it, it upsets me. And then I see certain folks in this field kind of grouping together. And I'm like, why am I not asked to do that? You know, I've got unbelievable credibility. I think I do a good job. I've got tons of elite athletes, but I don't share who I work with. So nobody knows. I don't go out there and say, I walk by this guy in a gym, and now I'm his mental coach. That happens a lot. And so to me, I start lacking my confidence. And it hurts because I sit there and I'm like, what the hell am I doing wrong? But then I sit back and I go, wait a minute here. I'm doing damn good work. And it doesn't matter what they think, what matters is what my clients think, and what matters is what my wife thinks, and what matters is what my two daughters think. And most importantly, who matters the most is the man in the mirror. And I can't lie to myself in the mirror. And if I look back and say, have I done everything I possibly can? Back to that earlier question, probably not. Or have I? Yeah, I have. If I can sit there laying on the ground, beaten up, but at least I know I gave everything, I can live with that. And that insecurity, that's what we have to... So I'm trying in every day of my life to figure out how to do that better, or push it. Well, that's what you guys are doing. Mm-hmm. Well, I had that experience a long time ago, managing large teams and health clubs, where I think everybody wants to be liked, right? Nobody wants to be disliked. And I asked myself, why do I want to be liked by all these people? And I really dove deep into that. And I realized that if I'm not being my true self because I'm trying to get someone to really like me, then they're not really liking me anyway. Oh, that's a mask. They like the mask. Right. So to me, and I wrote this in the book, there are three drives in every human. The need for accomplishment, the need for social acceptance, the need for stability. Okay, so we're driving. If you really look at your life, those are the three drives besides sex, food, and shelter. Let's take those out. We all want accomplishment. You guys are doing this because you want to build something. I mean, I would think it, your vision, I know of talking to you, and seeing it, I get it. You want to make a dent in this industry. You want to provide a service that there's a gap. You want to be... You want to sit back at some point when somebody comes in and buys you out, probably, and go, damn guys, we did good. We accomplished this. But you know what will happen, right? That clock will tick. That clock will tick, and then you'll go, you want to do something else? Yeah. Because once you do it once, it's not enough. My girl reminds me every day. I know. She, I always tell her, honey, we're right there. We're almost there. Honey, we're almost there. She just laughs at me. She just laughs at me. Yeah. We all want social acceptance. That's what social media is about. The power of a like actually is unbelievable. Oh, it's ridiculous. One of the biggest fears, I think one of the top... Dopamine. Three biggest fears of all people is public speaking. The most, one of the safest things you could possibly, not going to get killed, but it's the number one fear for most people is get up and speak in front of people. People being rejected by, you know, mass... People you value. It's hilarious. Yeah, and that's why we want acceptance. We're social creatures. If you want to break a human, isolate them. That's what we see in bullying, and that's what we see in shunning. In fact, isn't that considered like cruel and unusual punishment? Oh, absolutely. Convention banned it. Oh, yeah, 100%. And so when you look at what we do with violent offenders in prison, they put them in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day, and then they wonder why they're violent. Right? Yeah. I'd go crazy. They get an hour outside in the sun. If not, they're just communicating with people that they're picking at all day long. And the last one is stability. We function extraordinarily well in chaos as people, and we're always trying to find our stable, our stable pathway. But we want predictability. You want to know, and we want to know, what are you guys going to make in October? What are you going to make in January? I don't want surprises. But yet, why when we first see chaos, we go, oh, my God, we actually go, okay, I got it. I got it. I got it. I found my pathway through it, which is stable. So that social acceptance is critically important. And that's why, I mean, you guys don't want to be the maverick jerks of the industry. That's not what your message is. Your message is bringing, as you said it very clearly, finding great people who have great content and who don't know how to do it, and you're going to bring that to them. Some people choose to be the a-hole. They want to be the antagonists. They want to be the guy that knocks down everybody else. And through that, they create a little social acceptance because they create a standing. But I look at you guys and I go, this is, I mean, you've got to have some social acceptance. But what do you do? Eventually, you're going to start saying, well, I want acceptance from these people. I mean, my fans are great, but I want to be accepted by XYZ in the industry. I have no idea. I mean, more than anything, what drives us more than almost, of course, we're all entrepreneurs. We're businessmen. We like success. We like accomplishment. We like challenge. We definitely crave challenge. But really, the things that we share behind the scenes where we will send these messages to each other is when we see the impact that's made on everyday people. Like, we'll get messages from, God, I used to beat myself up. I used to starve myself. Or I used to eat this particular way. Or I used to have this horrible body image issue. And you guys really changed my life. Like, I'm accepting of myself. My relationship to food has changed now because I do because I love my body and not because I hate my body. Like, these are the stories that when we hear, it makes me feel. It makes us feel very, very good and passionate about what we're doing. So let me ask you this question for the three of you. When you get those messages and you share them, you all sit back in your chair for a minute and there's a glow. What comes next? Oh, more, more. Passionate, more gracious. You drive. Let's go again. And that's why it's so important. I mean, that's what drives you guys, right? I mean, it's making an impact one person at a time. One person at a time becomes your tribe. Your tribe becomes your mass. Your mass becomes your raving fans. So that's also why one critique hurts. Oh, yeah. I remember. We all got our first one. We all had our... What was it? Somebody left a review. So we have over... This was our only day. Yes, very, very... It's really messed with you a little bit. Yeah, you mentioned this on air, which was awkward. When we first started, it was awkward. No, it was good though, dude. It was good that he did. Well, no, I admitted that it hurt my feelings. I said, hey, you know, this was... And I knew when we first started off, I kind of played the antagonists out of the three of us. I tend to poke and prod and say the shit that's off the wall a lot. So I come off as the guy who can kind of be the asshole, right? And I'm okay with that role in the three of our personalities. And I actually had somebody who like... They wrote a long old review and it was like complimenting the actual show. But then it like singled me out of like not liking me. I think the part that was hard about that was like, they didn't just hate... They said, you know, Sal's great, Justin's great. I don't like Adam. Yeah. And that was really for him. Yeah, because it wasn't like they were attacking the show or what we do or what like that. I'm okay with that. It was like, it was a personal attack on my personality. And it was really... I can't remember the exact things. We've had over a thousand reviews, right? And literally out of the thousand, I think we have 997 that are five star. And then this was like this one like not five star review. And they wrote this and said that. And I had to like, whoa, I was like, wow, I can't believe that that hurt my feelings. Like that I allowed that to... And so I felt... And that's something about this show that we try and stay very real and raw and be as transparent as possible. And I said, man, wow, that hurt my feelings. It hurt my feelings that somebody who doesn't even really know me because they've heard some episodes and I talk a certain way or I didn't... They liked my other two co-hosts, not me. And it actually hurt my feelings. So that was a major growth. Did you change? No, I didn't change who I was. What I... I mean, because you have thousands and one hurts. Yes. Isn't that crazy? I get it. 100%. It's crazy, right? And I would... If you would have told me that that was going to happen before, I would be like, no big deal. I would tell you that I wouldn't think of a big deal. When it actually happened, I was like, whoa, that actually got me a little bit. That actually... It bothered me because they attacked my character. And I think that was... That's my pride and my ego getting in the way that I want people to know that, man, I'm really a good guy. Actually, I care a lot about people. I do a lot of good things for people. So for someone to attack my character like that, it really hurt my feelings. So I had to... But it was good that it happened early on. You didn't go to your safe space or anything, did you? No, no safe space. We gave him a furry stuffed animal and crayons. But it was... And you said something that I love that... And I don't know, kind of forget where I read this, but being comfortable with being uncomfortable, and I really seek out those moments because like you said, those are your moments of growth. Like in... If you're... I always like to look at every state change. So we've been talking a lot about negative stuff, but even positive. Like, I'll evaluate why I got really excited about something or why I got really happy or joyful or laughed about something that was any sort of state change. And then of course, if there was something that made me feel a certain way, and instead of like, oh, angry at this person, instantly I think back like, whoa, why did that bother me? Why did I allow that? So before we went on the air, you were talking about... And I was checking my phone, so I kind of heard what you're talking about. But the fish that grows to the size of the bowl, right? Yeah. So it's what I call the goldfish effect. So we... The human mind is very much like a goldfish bowl. You buy a goldfish at Walmart or whatever. You put it in a five gallon fish bowl and it ain't going to grow out of it. It's never going to jump out. It's not going to hit the side. It doesn't even hit the side of the thing. It just goes feed me and it comes up, it feeds. But it regulates its growth based on the size of its environment. You put it in a bigger bowl and does the same thing. And I always joke that if you put it in a pond outside of a Japanese restaurant, it becomes a koi fish. There's some of me I'm sure on your podcast or mine is going to sit there and say, okay, now theoretically and truthfully. It's an analogy people, get over it. Yeah. Okay, but it grows to larger fish. Our minds do the same thing. If all we think is we could be is this big. That's all you're going to be. Nobody's going to come pluck you out of the thing and say, look, you don't believe you should be a starter or you don't believe you should be on the main stage. We want you to do it because it's like you never bought the lottery ticket. Right. And that goldfish bowl. So we have to shatter our fish bowls and get out of our comfort zones because what we actually do is what we define as our comfort zone is actually one step inside of it. Right. Because we never, it's like the dog that's got the electric fence. It's not going to go find the barrier after it's been shocked a few times. That's natural inclinations. We're going to keep resisting. And I find myself doing it too. You get a bad review or a coach I work with is like, yeah, I'm not digging Brett. Doesn't work. And I'm like, I ruminate on it. I can't let go of it because I'm a people pleaser. Yeah. And it hurts that I've let somebody down. I go back and said, did I give them everything I had? Yeah, I did. You know, I mean, I've given talks or sometimes, you know, you get moving fast and you say something and you're like, oops, didn't mean to say that. And it's like, oh God, I hope they don't misunderstand what I'm saying or hope I didn't offend anybody, but I do it with passion. And that fishbowl, that fishbowl is so damn comfortable. Right. You know, it's, I think we forget that we, as humans, we are driven by some of these similar primitive instincts that we see in other animals. Ours are just far more complex, but like, like circuses when they would have elephants. Oh, the elephant. I was, yeah, thinking of that. People don't, I mean, people don't know this, but one of the ways they would train an elephant is when they're young is they would chain them up with heavy chains. Right. And this elephant would fight and fight and fight to free itself. And over time, and you'll see this if you ever look at these, like you don't have any of these circuses here in America, but these terrible countries will have them. You see these massive elephants and they're tied down around one ankle on the skinny rope. And you think to yourself like, that elephant could break that rope at any moment. At any time. Yeah. It has now been, it's a limit with them. It's a condition, yeah. It's a limit within its own, within its own mind. And this happens to us as humans as well. Yeah. Far more complex, but when you realize that the size of your mind or your consciousness or whatever you, whatever term you want to use, if it's the size of a walnut, then everything is that size. Your understanding of the world is the size of a walnut. Your relationships can only reach the capacity of that walnut. Your understanding of yourself, your business, it's all that same size. You can never go outside of that until you take that, the size of your mind or your consciousness or your understanding and grow it to the size of an orange and then the size of a watermelon, the size of whatever, the larger it gets, the more you expand and grow upon it, the more your understanding of everyday things. I find this with myself, like my understanding of things that I thought I understood, the things that I thought I knew, my understanding of exercise and fitness, very simple things that I've been doing for, for decades, grows and expands as I expand my mind's own capacity. But the only way, the only way you will grow is through being uncomfortable and painful. It is literally tied together. It does not happen from being comfortable. You cannot go, I'll use a gym analogy again because we're a fitness podcast, right? I am not going to develop bigger biceps if I use the same weight and do the same exercises all the time. At some point it will stop. I have to introduce a new pain to it or make it a little bit uncomfortable to cause it to grow back. Is that because it accommodates? Is that what it does? It's just- You adapt. Adaptation process. Okay. Which is just like everything else in the body when it comes to how we adapt to anything. Your mind is the same thing. It just adapts. 100%. It eventually just adapts to- In depression we call that learned helplessness. So a very powerful psychologist by the name of Martin Seligman had done some research and he was studying dogs. And if you put dogs in a shock box and the floor has a shocker in it and if a light comes on, so there's two shockers, they're side by side in this box, there's two lights. If the red light comes on, the left one shocks. Dogs figured out pretty quickly. Oh crap, red light, get to the other side. The blue light comes on, that side shocks. They see the blue light, they run to the other side. But if you make it inconsistent, red light comes on, right one shocks, blue one comes on, they both shock, the dog just lays down. It stops fighting and it just says- It just gives up. It gives up. Oh wow. And it just says, pretty much, world, I don't know what's coming at me and I'm just learning to be helpless. Okay, versus, see, our environment is inconsistent to us. That's what creates the fear. The inconsistent, the unknown. We don't know what tomorrow is going to be. There could be a terrorist attack tonight. That changes our lives. There could be, God forbid, we meet somebody at Starbucks that changes our life. It could be that, you know, some conversation we have changes our life. Never know. Never know what the next phone calls me. And that doesn't mean for us to live scared. I don't know what the weather's going to be tomorrow. You know, it's funny you say that. I just thought of it. So I go to a gym and work out on my own. And I go in there and I use a locker. And all the lockers, by the way, are open for everybody. And I use the same fucking locker every time. Every time. Every time. And it's like, you ever, you know, college campuses. Look on college campuses. Pick your desk. You can sit wherever you want. All semester, you sit in the same desk. Same desk. Unless there's a hot chick that you want to follow around. Yeah, follow around. This is, it is... Before I was married, honey. Yeah. This is our, and you got to understand, this is the interesting thing now. Our mind has the ability to evolve far faster than some of our instincts. This is why you have this awareness, you know, revolution that happens, you know, throughout the decades where people changed the way they think. But there's still these primitive instincts that we evolved to have because of the environment that we used to live in. None of us live in the environment that, you know, our 10 generations back evolved in where it was a good thing to have everything be predictable to know exactly where to go. The lion's going to be over there. I'm going to be over here. This is my cave. Stay inside when it's dark. That kept us alive. But today, you know, the risks aren't nearly the same. And staying, trying to be safe all the time will severely limit you. Well, and that's why anxiety is spiking. Because we're like, what we're doing is we're like those dogs. That actually, that dog studies kind of defines the level of depression. But anxieties and depression run together 80% of the time. So when people have anxiety, they're unsure about the upcoming future. In other words, they're walking outside to check the weather and yelling at the clouds versus saying, go get my umbrella. What I want that dog to do is to bear down and get ready. When the shock comes, it's ready. It's got it. Okay, I can survive it. That shock, I know how strong it's going to be. I know what it's going to be. I know I can survive it every time. The reason anxiety comes in is that the predictability of the old days of, okay, I don't know where the lion is. I don't know where the bear is, but I know that's its den. And it's probably going to stay somewhat nearby. And I know it's going to get dark at 5.30. And at night, I'm going to, you know, have a, I'm going to eat around the campfire. Then I'm going to bed. I'm going to start the process again tomorrow. We don't have that predictability anymore. Because we've created such technological advances in sports, we've got such talented people we're competing against that the unpredictability is an all-time high. And as a result, we feel so powerless. And as a result, we have anxiety. Anxiety is spiking among college athletes. It's unbelievable the number, the amount of anxiety that we're seeing across college campuses. Really? Unbelievable. And we used to think that is interesting. And it's crazy because, I mean, let's be honest now, right? If we went, what do we, you know, 2017, go back a hundred years. Let's go back a hundred years. Life was way fucking harder. You actually had a lot more shit like to be stressed about an anxious over. You could literally, literally get an infection and die. It happened a lot. If you got pregnant, there's a good chance you're going to die in childbirth. You're probably going to be malnourished. If you lost your job, you might starve. This was a hundred years ago. It's not that long ago. Today, none of that shit's going to happen. My God, 15 years ago, you had to go to a travel agent to get an airline ticket. 20 years ago. So to your point, but we didn't know what we didn't know back then. That's right. So right now on our phone, we could get an alert that says, bus bombed in Lebanon. And we go, oh my God, I feel terrible for those people. See the pictures of it. You see the picture and we connect to them. In the old days, it took 48 hours for us to get that news. If we were looking for it, it wasn't in your face. And then it was in a newspaper the next day. Exactly. So the unpredictability is what's killing us, but it's not the unpredictability. I had a, in Alabama this summer, we had about, I think it was like 90-something days without rain. And for us, that's a lot. We had just this bubble over this area that just, we got into a major drought. And it was in the fall by the time it started raining. So I was working with an athlete one day and she was from a foreign country. And we were talking about perception and identifying what the environment is. And I said, if you walk, it was pouring down rain, first day it had rained in the entire, I mean quarter, half a year. And I said, if you walked outside right now, what would you think the climate is of this city? And she essentially described Seattle, right? The perception of Seattle. You know, wet, rainy, cold. And I said, but we've had 93 days of sun. So when you allow your environment to dictate your perception, your only, and your emotion to dictate your perception, then that's where we're lost. And so I want people to look at the unpredictability of life and go, you know what? I got it. I don't know what it's gonna bring, but I've risen up to every challenge and I've always found a way. That's that stubbornness, that's that vision, that's everything. You know, they did studies, you remember the movie Jaws when I came out? And they did saw that a drive-in theater. Yeah, great, great movie. And they did studies on people and their perception of the dangers of swimming in the water exploded. People thought shark attacks were happening all over the place. I feel that way about Sharknado too. Yeah, sure. And the reality is, shark attacks are pretty consistent all your long and it's extremely rare. And now that we have social media, now that we have less technology, it amplifies the perceived threat of all this crazy shit that's happening. So what's your biggest fear? Geez, well, now that I have kids, I mean, anything that has to do with the safety of my children, by far. Okay, we'll take that as a given. We'll take that as a given. Okay, now in business, in life, your perception, what's your biggest fear? Stability, for sure. Describe that. What is that? To not have an income the next month, to not have enough money to pay your bills and to put food on your table. That's probably the... And to be honest with you, which is ironic because that's, you know... You haven't been honest with me yet. I hate when people say that too. I just caught myself doing that. You call me out, let you get it. You know, I grew up some... And I know, so this is, you know, go to diving in deeper, right? So I know that's my insecurity, and I know that's driven from my childhood because I grew up poor. But yet, by 19 years old, I was already... I was only making 50 grand, but back at 19 years old, that was a lot of money, and then had bought my house by the time I was 21 years old. So for sure, I know where it stems from, but it's crazy how we allow something like that, this, oh, like, I'm not gonna get paid this instability when in reality, I'm probably just fine. I'll always be just fine, but yet that drives me, and that is some fear or the anxiety that I would deal with. Yeah, but why not for you, though, growing up poor and look where you are now? Why not look at that differently and go, I grew up poor? I don't wanna go back there, but I'm okay. I mean, really, think about it. Well, that's what I have to do. When you said that, like, if I'm being honest with myself, that's part of what drives me and motivates me. So I guess this is a good question for you, then. When you know that something like that, all right, something like that is also a major motivator, right? That's a part of, I have to know that that's a part of my success was also driven from my initial fear, and the evolution of that is to no longer be afraid of that to embrace it, to be okay, but to accept that I'm not gonna not be able to pay the bills, I'm not gonna not have food that's never been a problem, but then also to be okay with that and use that to propel me, like where is the fine line and the balance in that of having something that is stemmed from childhood that you've now grown, you're now aware of, how do you embrace it and how do you use it so that it's not something that holds you back, but it's also something that you can continue to use to help fuel you. Yeah, it's being able to look at it and understand it. See, when you say poor, what do you think? Well, food stamps, being evicted from a house, yeah, that's poor to me. But we celebrate that in entrepreneurs. Right. I mean, there are sales trainers, like I've had my electricity turned off seven times, right? It's true, it's very true. And so to me, I look at that and I go, would you be as hungry today if you grew up on a trust fund? No, definitely not. That's what I'm saying though, that's I know that, like I'm definitely not somebody who's like, I'm the last one to say, poor me, feel bad for what, how I grew up. It's like, I wouldn't change anything. I really wouldn't. And I had a hell of a childhood growing up and I know that that also built a lot. So does what drive you, the desire to not be poor or does the desire to be rich? Probably the desire to be rich. If I'm honest with myself, if I look, if I go back to diving into, you know, go back, go back, go back, I remember being a child, you know, and I remember hanging out with friends and going to their house. And, you know, they had, they had, you know, mom always had all like, desserts on the counter and candy jars. And we were watching pay-per-view TV and we were going to Giants baseball. I could do all these cool things. And then at my house, I didn't have any of that stuff. And so really, as a kid, I desired that I wanted that for myself. And then I also had parents that talked down upon people that had lots of money. Like, that was a bad thing. So that was like a struggle as a child going through that, them telling you that, oh, money doesn't matter. All you need to love, love, love, loves what drives happiness and money is the root of all evilness. And people that have it are all evil and bad. And I'm going in my head, I'm scratching my head as a kid going, well, these people don't seem evil. Yeah, they seem like they're doing all right. They seem fucking happy. I have a similar situation too, like growing up like with money being looked at differently. It was, it was something like, they are the ones that have it, but what we have is more impactful. It's love, it's this, it's that. And so I had that idea of the success of, financial success as being a negative thing. And also for me, one of the biggest, I guess, fears going into more success-minded and achieving new platforms is all the eyes and the eyes grow. And that's what kind of gives me anxiety because growing up and kind of doing my thing, I always just wanted to do my own thing. And I didn't- But why did you want to do your own thing? Because I wanted to make myself, I was just interested in, I wasn't trying to show off to everybody else. I wanted to make myself feel good and to do that for just myself. And I feel like for me, it's really hard to, no, you know what it is? It's avoiding criticism. That's what it was. Growing up, I just tried to avoid criticism by just keeping everything internally to myself. So you didn't want conflict? Right. Right. So now it's at a stage where- So Adam was crushed, you were crushed by that critique. Yeah. Why does that happen to you? Because I've probably haven't put all of my entire self out there on display. Right? And I have and I've been working on that, but it's been hard. So for me, I went through a transformational kind of a change, a challenge in the very beginning. And not only that, I didn't speak a lot. And so that was a safety thing for me. So I would pull back out of the conversation- And you'd go for safety. You would be that reporter or that commentator who would just kind of take the middle line. Right. There's not a lot of things to- The filler. The filler, yeah. Yeah. So that's, I mean, and I kind of found a role in that as far as the team dynamic is concerned. Does that tick you off? Sometimes, sometimes I feel like the subject matter, it moves quickly. And there's a lot of words, a lot of the subject matter's already covered. And so therefore I didn't, I wasn't able to get in my opinion. Yeah. So I bet you envy the quick-witted when you listen to things. Yeah. When you watch things. Well, you're attracted to people. I was very attracted, yeah. So like you're Stephen Colbert. Yeah. Like you're stand-up comedians, like those are people I always idolized. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And we tend to idolize the people that were the opposite of us. Like we always see other people's strengths and what those strengths are or weaknesses. Interesting. If you really look at what other people, you go, I love what that person does. It's because I can't, like I was, I've, ever since I was a kid, I've worn orthotics. And I'm not flat-footed. I'm what's called the form flat-footed. So I'm, I even, I crash in even more. My dad was in the Air Force when I was diagnosed with it. We were living in the Philippines. So in today's world, they probably have put me through physical therapy and I probably would have strengthened that. But, but I've never been a runner. I can't run. All right. And when I was a baseball player, we had to go run five miles. And I mean, it was like watching an elephant run. I mean, it was just, you know, you know, going down the road. But whenever I see somebody running on the road, I see freedom. I'll never feel that. I don't know what it's like to run and open it up. You know, there's guys that are running and they've got their, they've got this just sculpted body and they just look, they just look awesome running down the side. I'll never get that. Looks effortless. It looks effortless. And so I idolize that. So I actually think that is the ideal of being fit. Because I can't do it, I reject it. But then I resent it. Okay. So, you know, when I said, when I started this industry and took my psychology and said, okay, I'm gonna work with athletes on performance as I said, well, most of the people in the field are skinny. They're fit, they're tan with great teeth and great hair and I ain't got none of that. So I just got to have good content. But that's a self-fulfilling, that's a joke that's made to kind of soften it on me that, you know, I don't like, I trained for a living, you know, when I was in college. I don't like to work out. I don't like it. I like to eat. I like to eat the bad stuff. Okay. So to that, it's like, sometimes we resent that. And the problem is you have a lot to offer and I'm not sitting here doing therapy, but you have a lot to offer. And the fact is we ruminate on the things that we don't like. Like to me, damn, you grew up poor. You survived. But I see with like my mom and my father-in-law, both grew up dirt-ass poor, you know, like outhouses poor. And my father-in-law won't eat chicken today because that's all they ate, that's all they could afford, they had a chicken house. My mom grew up in an environment where she didn't get along with her parents. They rejected her. She was a model. She's a twin sister. They're beautiful looking at the pictures. I'm like, damn, my mom was hot. And they rejected her. And they would make comments like, you know, the other sisters are prettier. I'm like, what parent says that? But you have to understand, when they react in a certain way, like my father-in-law sold his business, all he wanted was to get to a spot that he'd never lived poor again. He didn't care how much money he actually made. My mom just wants a family. And so when she would get upset about something, I'd have to remember why. It's because she didn't like her family. And we always are drawn to the opposite. I mean, what's your biggest fear? You had time to think about it. Now you got something really succinct. Oh, of course. It better be better than ours. Yeah, of course. And she'll deliver it so much better. He'll find a way to make his fears make him sound hella good right here. Just watch. You ready? Spiders. I was gonna say that. Now, you know, I'm not afraid of being poor. I feel very confident in my ability to earn a living if I had to. I don't have to share the same fear with Justin in the sense of I talk and I talk a lot and I have no problems speaking my mind. In fact, I probably speak my mind too much. I was thinking about what's a real fear for myself and I think it, actually I know, it has a lot to do with I don't want to be a fraud. And what I mean by that is I've led lots of teams. I've managed gyms with large teams and I've had people work for me and they themselves have grown and become successful and I helped coach them through that process and I have younger siblings. I'm the oldest of four. And when they go through tough times, they call me to ask me advice and I give them advice on what they need to do and how they need to succeed. And I don't want to fail because I don't want to be a fraud. I don't want to realize that my beliefs in what it takes to succeed and what it takes to do well is bullshit. It doesn't work. It's not working for me. Like what's going on? So that's one of my fears. I don't, I guess I fear failure but more than that I fear that this identity that I believe is mine is not, doesn't work, isn't real. Like maybe I don't succeed because everything I believed in was wrong. That's a very scary thing for me. Yeah, I see it. It's what we call imposter syndrome. And you see it with, you see it with physicians a lot and that's why they put up an image but the best people are insecure. And you don't want a physician who knows it all. You want a physician who knows what they don't know. Right. I'm intelligent because I know that I know nothing. Yeah, I'm intelligent because I know I need to ask for help. Right. And if you look at the three different fears, now you know what drives y'all but you also know what keeps you up at night. And I recognize all three of them. I didn't grow up poor. I grew up upper middle class. So I don't, but there was a time in our life where my dad lost his job after he had left the Air Force. And I remember I was a sophomore in high school. He lost his job and even though he was a pharmacist he could find a job but it was hard because he had a really good job. And I remember that pain of family financial problems. And I never want my kids to ever know about the finances in the house ever, ever. My parents didn't do anything wrong there, but that got me. I recognize deeply with the imposter syndrome. I feel that one a lot because I want people to connect and what I do, you live and die a little bit by the success of your athletes but you sometimes have to remember that they don't always succeed and your job is to guide them through that. But what happens if what I'm giving them is crap? That's scary and I get it. And then the same thing with you about, I'm the same way. I don't want to say something that crosses. Like I told you, being subtweeted about something I said, it hurt. I mean, it bothers me. Like I just want to go on blast but I refuse to do it. I just want to blast these people. But fear guides us unfortunately. And I don't think enough people really are honest with what their fear is. I think that's that mask. I think you've got to be okay with it. I think that's the first step. I think you got to realize you might not be open to really looking at it because you're so fucking scared of it. 100%. You ever watch a memory or a kid, you watch a scary movie and there'll be like a scary face and you turn your face. You don't want to look at it. Correct, you don't want to look at it. You just don't want to look at it. Okay, how about this? I'll give one more. My daughters are 20 and 16 but they lay in bed at night and they say, there's something under my bed. Well, they don't get out of the bed to look at it, do they? They actually think there's something under the bed. They make it into something much larger and it becomes a monster that they saw on that TV show. And now it's real. I mean, I'm telling you it's real and you go flip on the light and it's their underwear they didn't pick up last night that's laying on the bed. They misinterpreted those. Fear is the bully on the playground. It does not get out with until it gets faced. When you refuse to face it, it just continues to grow and it becomes the baddest son of a bitch up there. But like any bully on the playground they are the most insecure human beings there is. So we see their bark but we realize they have no bite. But we don't know that until we do it and that means we got to step out of our comfort zone. We got to break our fishbowl to get after it. And punch them in the face. And punch them in the face. Yeah, fuck you bully. Yeah, 100%. And it's fun. I mean, it's, you know, like I said, I'm fascinated by seeing this because I know there's a vulnerability that comes with doing what y'all are doing. I mean, I look at the room. There's, I mean, how many of you, there's five of y'all sitting here. Did I add that right? I want to LSU. So there's five. There's five lives. There's more lives behind it depending on it. Which one are we going to be motivated by? These five lies are the millions of people out there that needs your message. If you take care of those millions of people out there that need these messages, these five prosper. If you worry about these five, they suffer. You know, it's like when you go, when you're a kid and you go to the doctor. We need a lot of candle. I just, you guys said we just went deep. Well, it's good. We're going to log after this. I like this. It's good because it's, I know it's helping me. I mean, you know, again, I talk a lot about liking to speak to people. I enjoy speaking to crowds. But I'm also terrified about it. Like when we go speaking lives and we have people in front of us, I'm terrified before we go do it. You imagine me, dude. It takes like 10 minutes, 15, 20 minutes sometimes for me to get into my flow because of that fear of what? You know what, you're saying that. I found I'm doing the same thing. I love, when I worked in the pharmaceutical industry, I probably gave 100 talks a year. But it was on their content. I could take their content and make it great. I liked, I'm narcissistic enough that I like being in front of people. But what I'm finding now is like coming up here and I had to do a couple of talks earlier in the week and whatever and you know, I reached out to people and I find myself, I'm starting to get cranky on the days I have to give talks. Yesterday I did a full day clinic up at the Olympic club and I was cranky in the morning. And it's not cranky that I know I can't do it, but it's what is going to happen. And I start worrying and I find myself, I get, it's like last night when I got back to my room, I felt so relieved because this wasn't anxiety provoking for me at all. This was I couldn't wait for. Because this is going to be us just hanging around, having a conversation. There's going to be no judgment. I mean, what's the worst is I leave here and you go, that was sucks and don't, don't run that podcast. Okay. There's nothing to loss. But you stand in front of an audience and you look out there and I don't know if you have this thought and all of a sudden somebody's like doing that on you. Yeah. Or get up and leave. Or get up and leave. Get up and leave. You've had that a couple of times. And you're like, you and you change your entire talk to that person that's not paying attention. But right next to that person, there's somebody who is just really cares and living it. And I find myself doing that. I get cranky and I try to find the person who makes me uncomfortable. And I end up tailoring to them and I'm missing. That's my fault, that crankiness. And at the same time, I go, wait a minute here, what happens? I've heard great people. I've heard musicians say, I played a one person in the audience. I make contact to that person. I try to change their life. And like, well, you're playing in front of 30,000 people. It doesn't matter. That one person matters. And I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. And I guess that's what actors do. I mean, they become so invested in their one character to that person they're interacted with. But I get you, man. I mean, I'm there. Yeah, I think one of the things that's helped me as recently as I've identified the physical feelings of anxiety and that the way I interpret those physical feelings can determine whether or not it's anxiety or excitement. Okay, let's go there. Can we? Yeah, absolutely. What are the feelings of anxiety? It's the same as excitement. Damn right. The exact same. Okay. Elevated heart rates, palms. You feel tight in the chest. You got to take a leak. You got to go to the bathroom. That's exactly what happens when you fall in love. By the way, it's the same fucking feeling. I'll mention it. Let's ramp us up. Yeah, but what the difference is is our interpretation. So for me, the way I look at emotion is it starts with a stimuli or it starts with a stimuli, you know, not a stimulus. Starts with stimuli. Stimuli gets perceived. Okay. That perception is guided by our past, our future, all those thoughts, you know, our judgments, our stereotypes, all that stuff. That creates a feeling in the body. That feeling in the body becomes perceived. That perception becomes evaluated, which becomes an emotion. So if we feel this way, our mind has a radar system in it. It's checking the environment. So when we go, it's anxiety. Oh God, this feels uncomfortable. The mind goes, why is it uncomfortable? Why? What's wrong? What's going on out there? And it sends out the scouts and goes, find what's wrong? And it goes, you know what's wrong? Dude, I don't think I know my talk very well. And so and so is going to be in that audience. And oh God, I don't know if I know it. And then it starts recruiting. Fear is like that friend you invite to a party that you know. It's like, if I invited you to a party and, you know, I'm like, come on, but I know you're going to bring 10 guys that I don't like. That's what fear is. I can deal with you, but it's the next 10 that I can't stand. And so what happens is that feeling in the body, which is neutral, it makes us, it's a perception. It's neutral. It gets cognitively interpreted as fear, which then brings in a whole flood. What do you think that does to our motor system? Is it achievement focused or protection focused? Protection for sure. 100%. Okay. That's a completely different model. So under protection, we get more cortisol. We get more other stuff. But what do we get under achievement? You said it earlier. It's dopamine. All right. Yeah. Okay. So under achievement, hitting those small goals, it's a dopamine release. Why does the body secrete cortisol? Do you all know? Oh, it gives you, well, initially it gives you more energy. For what? Fight or flight. Yep. To protect. So it's preparing. It's just creating a little bit more protection. But when we're achievement focused, we get that tunnel vision. It's like, people say, if you get in that flow state and you get out there, the number one step, if you read the book, Rise the Superman. Awesome book. Okay. We interviewed Stephen. Yeah. Fascinating. Steel and fire is great too. And you guys interviewed the co-author, didn't you? Yeah, Jimmy Will also. Both of them. Yeah, both of them. What's fascinating to me about that is it takes, the first step is acceptance. And when we can't accept the outcome, we're never in an open explosion into success. When we cannot accept the outcome either way, then we go into protective mode and we're trying to save face. We have to be willing to accept whatever happens. And I would love for you to, before you go on stage, you go, you know what, guys? I may bomb, right? But I'm giving them everything I have today. And if I bomb, I'll deal with it. What's the worst case? They're going to rip me on social media. They're going to say, we're frauds. That's fine. I can learn to deal with it. But you know what? I'm going to give them, and for you, I'm going to give them everything I got. And if they like it, they do. I may have one person who likes me. That's cool. There may be something wrong with that guy though. It's one more than I had yesterday. Yeah, exactly. All right. Excellent, man. Sweet. Always great talking to you. Dude, this is great. All right. Thanks for it. Let's do this. You're a lot of fun, man. Dude, you want to sign off? You want us to sign off here? I usually sign off on our show, but I don't know whose show this is. Yeah, no, it's the, like we said before, it's the law and order homicide crossover. That's right. Yeah, we'll do formal. What we'll do is we'll do a formal. Yeah, we'll do our, I'll do the formal one too. But look, it's a pleasure to be here. And I'm always fascinated by seeing entrepreneurs who have a vision of what they want to do and are innovators. Innovation starts in the mind, always. You know, I look back before we sign off, but you look at Disney World. Could that be built today? Not really. Without it. Because everyone would tell them why it would fail. But that man started with a vision and a dream. And that vision and dream kept growing with other people who got on board with that dream. And that's what we are. All right. Excellent. Appreciate it. Check this out. Go to mindpumpmedia.com. 30 days of coaching still for free. Also, find us on Instagram. You can actually ask us questions on Instagram and check out our Insta stories. We run promos all the time. You can find it at Mind Pump Media. You can find my personal page at Mind Pump South. Adam's at Mind Pump Adam. And Justin's at Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes maps anabolic, maps performance, and maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee. 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