 I'm Marcia Joyner, and we are navigating the journey. And today's journey is not very far from here. I think it's about 50 miles from here to be exact. And it is with my dear, dear friend, Bill Isla. And everybody knows I only talk to dear friends. And so Bill is just, what else can I say? He is now the chair of Hawaiian Homes Land. I hope I got that right. You too. Yes, hello, Marcia. Nice talking to you. For anybody that doesn't know, maybe, yep, I have known Bill for, I don't know how many years, we had a 17 foot boat and we towed it 50 miles out there to the harbor, Boat Harbor in Waianae. And he was the, what was it? Captain, chair, somebody. Harbour master. Harbour master, yeah, that's what it was. And so it's been that long since I met Bill, trying to get the boat in the water. And he was just precious because I didn't know what I was doing, but I'm sure he got a lot of people in there that didn't know what they were doing. So since then, we have been very good friends. And so, but today, we are going to talk about his newest project. And that is a casino on Hawaiian Homes Land. So Bill, you wanna tell us about what you're doing with the casino or why, I guess, is a real question. Sure, well, good morning. Let me just give you a little bit of a background. The Department of Hawaiian Homes Lands is funded by the state legislature. We have some trust lands, trust lands that we lease to commercial operators to make some money for application on the creation of lots, loans, and developing of lands. But it's nowhere near enough. There was a lawsuit filed a couple of years ago. It's called the Nelson lawsuit. In that lawsuit, we prevailed in terms of getting a judge to say that the legislature is supposed to provide sufficient sums to the Department of Hawaiian Homes Lands for purposes, lots, loans, rehabilitation and administrative costs. We have not been successful in getting the correct appropriations or the right amount of appropriations in order to remove the 28,000 folks who are sitting on the weakness. Our estimate of sufficient sums is somewhere between $150 and $200 million a year. For the last, I wanna say six or seven years, we've been receiving about $25 million for what they call capital improvement projects, which is the grading of lots, bringing in infrastructure, acquiring of lands, and then about $18 million for our operating costs, salaries, keeping the lights on, those kinds of things. So there's a vast disparity between the 25 and 18, and then the 150 and to $200 million. So earlier this year, my staff got together and they decided, well, what can we do? We're in an economic downturn. There's a pandemic going on. What can we do to think outside of the box? And the idea of gaming on Hawaiian homelands came up primarily because we looked at other indigenous peoples on the continent and I believe anywhere between 60 and 70 casinos now throughout the United States. Most of them doing very, very well. There are a few that could stand some improvement. And we did some research into things like, well, what kind of social ills could we expect? Got advice from our cousins who indicated that based upon 30 years of keeping data on Indian gaming as it developed across the United States, that you could, if you put money, put resources upfront in enforcement and in let's say treatment programs for gamblers who are addicted for some of the other social ills that are associated with Las Vegas, for example, the sex trafficking, those kinds of things. What would happen in other locales is that you would not see any increase in the level of crime. So we addressed that in the bill right up front by making sure that the receipts from the casino would go to taking care of these social ills. We came across the simplest way is to seek an exemption from the criminal code that prevents gambling from occurring in Hawaii. So we fashioned the bill, Senate bill 1321 in such a narrow way that it would give just an exemption to the department of Hawaiian homelands for one casino to be operated on commercial lands on Oahu. The best minds regarding like how much, how much revenue we could generate from such an enterprise indicated that $30 million a year would be a very super conservative estimate. And this is after, this would be the department share of the taxes on the gaming receipts. We would also receive separately lease rent from whatever entity that came in and built this resort casino operation. So it'd be two pots of money that would come in. There are folks who indicated that, Hawaii is such a post proximity to Asia. There are a lot of Asians who like to gamble that with the tourism and the addition of a casino in Hawaii on Oahu, that number could be much, much higher as high as several hundred million dollars per year. So the 150 to $200 million that we estimate is necessary for sufficient funds would have been met by the casino revenue. And then it would be in perpetuity, so to speak. So that's how the idea came about. We ran into some flak from our beneficiaries because they felt, many of them felt that there should have been more outreach or what they call beneficiary consultation ahead of time. But beneficiary consultation, administrative rules talk about when land dispositions are done, that's when you do the beneficiary consultation. This discussion about gaming actually came about during a commission meeting when we were discussing legislative matters. And normally we don't do beneficiary consultation during or about legislative manner. So that created a sort of backlash, if you will, and we addressed that by actually holding several meetings statewide. They were remote meetings through Zoom and Teams, but that's the best we can do under these conditions. Well, now, where is it located? The bill that was introduced by the legislature, actually. No, I meant if the legislature says okay, physically, where would it be located? That was left open anywhere on Oahu that the department had lands that were zone commercial and that allowed for the department to go out and acquire additional lands or lands in an area where let's say it would be more tolerated, industrial area or some area, not next to a residential area. So that was added to give us more flexibility. Well, in the industrial area, would that be a location? Would that be a sort of location? It would, it would answer the concerns of many of our beneficiaries who didn't want something that big adjacent to a homestead, because it would bring additional traffic and noise. So we would look at other areas, perhaps closer to the airport, other areas that didn't impact residential communities. So all of these, the legislation was written in such a way that it would provide the most flexibility in order to make that determination. Now, how is it, if you are, there are companies I know that build casinos, was that what you would do, that they would have to come in and do all of the building that is necessary? Correct, it was actually a two-prong process. One would be to create a gaming commission that is attached to the Hawaiian Homes Commission, but not directly under its authority, so to speak. And the reason that a gaming commission is so important that we learn from all of our gaming experience, talking to other folks, is that the integrity of the gaming is the most important thing. You want to have a group of people whose job it would be to issue the one license to a gaming company, but there had to be integrity built into that process and transparency so that there would be no question and you would avoid, you would avoid the bad influence of organized crime to get involved. Then the department through the commission would issue a request for a proposal to build such a resort casino establishment. So there was a two-prong process that was attached to this bill. You mentioned the resort, but what about would it be a resort? I mean, not just the casino, but other facilities that's to support the casino. Sure, I mean, you want such a complex because you want to have a hotel that's next to it, you want to have restaurants, you want to have ancillary businesses that are around it because when you go to a casino in Las Vegas, it's a sort of one-stop shop where everything is available. Similar with the American Indian tribes, they've adopted a very similar model because it's works, it's effective and you do want to sort of capture people, right? Your customers to be there and make it convenient for them to be there. So that would add a hotel to all of it. It would generate in our estimation around 5,000 to 7,000 new jobs. Now, I keep hearing the sound. Wonder what that's about. Anyway, what about, I'm sure that Vegas people will object? Or have you- We sort of sense their presence in and around the legislature, but not openly to me or my staff. That's not how lobbyists work. I would just think that that would be the whole thing with, because that's Hawaii, if it wasn't for Hawaii, they wouldn't be as big as they are. Well, there's lots of Hawaiians and people from Hawaii and Hawaiians that jump on a plane and fly to Las Vegas early in the morning. And in testimony before the Senate committee, it was really interesting that Honolulu Police Department testified that on any given day on Oahu, there are between 70 and 100 game rooms that are already operating on a daily basis on Oahu. And so if you take a conservative, if you take a conservative estimate of, let's say the game rooms clear $5,000 per day, that's very conservative, multiply that by 100. And you see that there's half a million dollars in gambling proceeds that are going to these illegal operations. So you can see that people do game that there is a market for it. We were hoping to establish a legal market for it in which the benefits would go to native Hawaiians of the Hawaiian Homeland Trust. I'm just wondering how you can guarantee where the money goes to the state or just to Hawaiian homes. Actually, so the way that the receipts would be considered, there'd be a 45% tax on the gaming revenue, right? So 55% would stay with the operator, 45% would come to us. Of the 45% that came to us, we would, 80% would be directly deposited into a trust account. 20% would go to the general fund of the 20%, 5% would go to the enforcement and treatment programs. And then the other 15% would go into the general fund, of course, because there are roads and there are utilities that would come into the property that either the county or the state pays for. So we're looking to pay our fair share. There is an interesting question from one of the viewers that they had heard from other folks that you should just give Hawaiians back their lands and not lease it to them. And the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act lays out 99 year leases with a opportunity for a hundred year renewal. So that's the way the program was set up. It's not set up to give Native Hawaiians fee simple land. So I just wanted to answer that question. And of course, there's 28,000 people that are waiting for a lot. And at the current rate of $25 to $30 million a year, we just a ballpark based upon the cost of infrastructure on Oahu, it's gonna take 180 years at that pace to be able to take care of 28,000 people on the wait list, which is why the idea was hatched. Well, so, but do you have to put in, because now in this federal, was this land federal land? And I know that I'm confused. How much of this is still federal and how much of it was given to you at Hawaiian Homes? So the Department of Hawaiian homelands after the overthrow and during the territorial period when the Republic of Hawaii ceded, right? All the kingdom lands, all the government lands to the US federal government. When Congress created the Hawaiian Homes Commission Act, it returned, if you will, 204,000 acres to the corpus of this trust that became the Hawaiian homelands trust for the purposes of rehabilitating native Hawaiians who were 50% or more of the blood and 18 years or older. So what we're talking about now, where Hawaiian Homes, that is, are you federal employee or state employee? How does that work? Okay, so as a condition of statehood, say 1959, right? State of Hawaii agreed as a condition of statehood and it's in the organic act that it would take this federal program called Hawaiian homelands program and it created a state department called the State Department of Hawaiian Homelands. Now, as a requirement of becoming a state, the responsibility for the rehabilitation of native Hawaiians became part of that compact, right? So when everyone voted for our statehood in 1959, they voted to take on this compact and this commitment to native Hawaiians. And unfortunately, over the years, we have not had sufficient funding to accomplish this compact and this commitment. Well, now you're taking airport, for instance, and the harbors, now that's income to the state. Do you get any part of that? We do not. In fact, the Office of Hawaiian Affairs that was created in the Constitutional Convention of 1978 receives a pro-rata share of the receipts from seeded land. So that money goes to the Office of Hawaiian Affairs. Oh, but you don't. We do not. Our lands, we would get a percentage of whatever, sugar land leases and water licenses that were in effect at that time. We would get a 30% of those revenues. But over the years, sugar has gone out, water leases are up for renewal. It's controversial in the legislature right now. So the amount of revenue that used to come in through those sources has declined significantly. Okay. Now you're gonna put people on the land, houses, whatnot. But now who puts in the water and the electricity and all of those things that have to go with the house? Okay. So the Department of Hawaiian Homeland's through appropriations through the legislature, and we normally get about, not the last five or six years, we get about $20 million in capital improvement funds and $5 million in repair and maintenance funds. That's the money that would go to putting in the roads, the sewers, the water, all of the environmental work that would need to be done, any plan and design, and then the actual construction to make the land available, and then the homeowner actually pays for the vertical construction, right? But we don't charge the homeowner for the value of that land. And on Oahu, it averages to be about $150,000 per lot. So 10 lots is 1.5 million, a hundred lots is 150 million. So you can see 25 million doesn't go far. No. Well, now, where are those lands? And they're on every island, right? They are on every island, including Lina'i. We have huge land holdings on the island of Hawaii, Maui, less land holdings on Oahu and Kauai. Well, what about Molokai, the Parker Ranch? I guess it was Parker Ranch. That's sitting there, yeah? So Molokai Ranch was and continues to be one of the largest land owners there. On Molokai, the issue, we have large land parcels there. The issue is water. The development of water and the delivery of water, both for farming and for residential purposes. Okay, well, I was just thinking about that ranch has been for sale for so long. That's Molokai Ranch and it continues to be for sale. And unfortunately, we have a straw, they have a straw and the county has a straw in the same aquifer, which is what is limiting our ability to provide water for future development on Molokai. Well, let's look back over here, speaking of water, Na Na Kuli. Yes. Yes. Now, I saw in the news you were doing something with the cemetery there. What, tell us about that. Okay, so we have a cemetery that's probably been around since the homesteads opened there in the 19, I'm gonna say late 20s, early 30s. The cemetery started out being managed by churches. Each church had an area, and as the churches left management, there were individual families who cared for it. And here we are today where we have records, but they're not complete records of everyone who was buried there. As you know, with the baby boom generation moving through life cycles, we have more and more demands for Waianae homesteaders and requests for Waianae, which includes Na Na Kuli, homesteaders to be buried there. So what you're alluding to is an effort by the department to use technology to try to identify either graves that are not marked or lands that are between graves that are not marked that could be used for a burial. So it's really to sort of create an inventory of where deceased members or families are and then look at how much land now becomes available for future burials. Well, do you have to be Hawaiian to be buried there? You have to be Native Hawaiian. You have to have grown up in the Na Na Kuli Waianae area on homestead land. On homestead land. Right. So that's a requirement. It is because it's homestead land, so it's supposed to be used for small and Native Hawaiians or they're 25% successors. We're encouraging people. There are a lot of people that are being cremated nowadays, so we're encouraging people to plan ahead for your family. So I hope it's not too morbid, but when we do approve the digging of a new grave, we highly suggest that the first burial go down to 12 feet, and then the second burial is from nine feet. And then above that, you can put a whole number of urns that have to be three feet from the surface. So maximizing the amount of space for the family members of beneficiaries in Na Na Kuli Waianae. But it has to be, you have to be on the coastline there. That's correct. Well, oh my. Bill, they're telling us we're down to the end of the day. Well, can I ask you something? So what has happened in the legislature is the House bill was deferred about three weeks ago. And just this past Thursday, the Senate bill 1321 was deferred in the Hawaiian Affairs Committee. So for all intents and purposes, for this legislative session, it doesn't seem like it's going to proceed any further because we're in a biennium legislature. Of course, the bill is still alive and that committee is deferred. And perhaps during the course of the year between the legislative sessions, we may be able to share more information. Because what we've noticed is that as we share information of how the bill came about, what it does, what it doesn't do, we've seen the opposition go from 80% down to about 50% and the support now come up to about 50%. So once people actually understand what the bill does, how it impacts and benefits native Hawaiians throughout the state, we find that more people turn to support it. And when I say people, I mean beneficiaries. Wonderful. Well, Bill, it's always a pleasure spending time with you and you must come back and visit with us again. Well, I appreciate the invitation and the opportunity to share information because you get good decisions once you get good information. Well, again, thank you. Aloha and we will see you again. You take care. Aloha.