 What's up everybody, it's Lady J Bookums. And it's brand man Sean and we're back with the no name podcast. Why are we saying no name? Because we don't have a name yet. But so stay tuned because we're gonna be hoping y'all give us some names of what y'all think this podcast should be called. This is just episode two, part two. We're experimenting. Help us get it done y'all. Lady J, what are we gonna talk about? Take a seat. So I had a real cool topic. I feel like a lot of people would have some opinions about this, right? So my topic for today, my folks, my people, is going to be the music industry. Is it a dream filler or dream killer? Okay. I like that. Now, the reason why I wanna talk about that is because we have so much going on in entertainment. You know, I feel like every, this is not even just for music, right? But this is entertainment in general, like actors, whatever, so many people wanna be a part of the entertainment business, right? And they have all of these preconceived notions about what it's gonna be like when they get in, like, oh, I'ma get it, I'ma get money, I'ma get fame, I'ma get all this stuff. But then we have a lot of people who get into entertainment and they just, they lose their mind, you know what I mean? Like, they become so depressed. They all on drugs, you know? They all in the media for all kinds of the wrong things. And then they all be crying, then they all get to the point where they're making those videos like, yo, the business, you never thought, you know, is the devil, is this, is that, I wanna get out the business, you know? So we have all of that going on right now. And particularly, you know, we have the summer walker thing. So summer walker, everybody knows she's been like, taking off, she got in the game and she took off and she's bouncing all on London on the tracks, you know, lap and all kinds of stuff. She's very on, on social media, she's very lit. But in person, she's super awkward, right? When she's been doing her, she's been doing like interviews and everything. She's super duper awkward. Right, right, right. I haven't seen everything, right? But I've heard a lot of people say that. As far as like the how awkward that she is, I've definitely heard that. I think I saw like one small clip and she is like more meek than you would expect her to be versus the energy she shows online. But one thing that I think is to consider, like there's a lot of people like that, right? Like that's when, when you know when people will say, well, I don't know, they say to you, but dudes like growing up, right? Dudes always be like, hey man, you know that quiet girl, that's the one, right? You know, it's different behind the scenes, right? Sometimes there's always people who are shy or active one way, but then of course, just like when you get with your family or you get with your friends, you might act differently. The difference is though, if you project that out to the world, right? Show how you act with other people. Fans are gonna expect and think that that's you all the time. They don't understand that this is the comfortable me, me, but generally speaking I'm shy. That's I think what a disconnect is. But I think that's like where it comes into being authentic, right? Because we have, we have so many of the artists or entertainers that get into this business and it's like a lot of people feel like I have to be a certain way. Like, oh, I'm not a social media person, but because I'm getting a little fame, I gotta be on social media and I gotta do this and do this act crazy or whatever. And then when something happens, they're like, well, that's not really me. And I think that's one reason why Summer Walker is getting a lot of backlash because all her fans, like she went canceling tour dates and she went online talking about, you know, I'm not trying to sell out. I'm not trying to change myself and blah, blah, blah. But the fans is looking at her like, bro, we've been running your streams up. You know what I mean? Like, we've been buying your tickets up. You can't tell us like, this is not what you want when we've already invested into you. Like, because this is what it is to be an artist. You feel me? Or being a public recording artist. Like, this is what it is to do that. So it's like, you kind of gotta come out and actually be yourself. Like, don't be, don't come out. First of all, your lyrics make it seem like you're lit. You know what I mean? You don't sound like an introvert. You don't sound like somebody who's shy with all this stuff that you're talking about in your lyrics, right? So it's like, we're expecting you to be a certain way. You can't fault the people for being like, being mad at you for you coming out saying like, oh, I'm not doing the music no more. I'm not doing interviews no more. All right, you can't fault people on that end, but it's also no indictment on the artist because I think it's common, right, for artists to be that way. Well, not, not so much today, but like, there's always been an artist, a type of artist that can express themselves and when they're on stage or when they're in that zone, they're, and they're a whole another person. And then when they're just them though, the normal them is like beyond saying Sasha fierce, right? Artists create these alter egos because they have to put them in a space to create this whole different type of energy that just might not be them in the first place. Or they have that side to tap into them, but you literally have to go in the zone to bring that side out of you. Right, but at the same time, it's like, all that I know as a fan is what you give me, right? That's what I'm saying. You can't fault the fans at the end of the day. This is what we see and this is what we expect. I think cases like this, all right, with Summer and other artists that you'll start to probably see more of that, people will look at Summer as like a case study. And I saw, ooh, I see how Summer moved. Maybe I'm like Summer, but at the end of the day, I saw how it affected the fan base or that little upward created and I don't want that. So they might move accordingly and be aware of how to communicate that. So this never happens. You get what I mean? Yeah, but it's like, I feel like, cause she's not the only one. That's what I'm saying. She's not the only one. So one thing I feel about a lot of entertainers like or creative people in general, I feel like creative people are more of introverts anyway. Like a lot of creative people, they're super creative and they like to be alone, to express, whatever they express. To be in your own mind and figure stuff out and create. Right. So I think that's one thing that she's trying to say, but when it comes to like artists or entertainers just being authentic, I feel like that's something that we're lacking and that's the reason why so many people are coming out and they start off so strong. And then they get into the game and they start seeing like, oh, I have to do all these interviews. I got to be in front of all these people. I got to do all these things. And then they just don't want it no more. Like Ari Lennox was another one, Boonk Gang. Like, I don't know. I don't know what y'all know about this guy. But he literally like, I just dropped my phone the other day cause he put on, he posted a video on Instagram. First of all, he came out and he was like, hey everyone, my name's Johnny Cabana or John Cabana. Like I was like, yo, first of all, whose voice are you using right now? Like, boy, so, but he literally came out and said the most important thing. First of all, he said, you know, I apologize because I had this platform. I've been using my platform to promote all this negative, crazy content. Right. And if we take a trip down memory lane, you know, he was like going to different interviews and he was so high or whatever, allegedly. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Where it's like your whole team is so sober and you just gone and he shot himself and all these crazy things was going on is like he was crying out for love. But in this video that he just posted, he basically said, I apologize. Crying out for love. Yo, why was y'all love me? Yo, he's crying out for love for help, attention, something. He was crying for something. Boy, that boy was down inside. But my opinion. But he basically said on this video, like, yo, I want to apologize. In the John Cabana voice or Cabana, he was like, I want to apologize to you guys for using my platform to promote negativity. You know, so he said, I just wanted to be loved. He said, but I want to be loved for who I am, not this character that I created to be a part of the industry. His words, not quote unquote, but like those are his words. You know what I'm saying? So that's the thing. Like we have these artists coming out or entertainers period coming out in some models, all these people coming out, doing all these things just to be reached or be loved or be popular or fit in or whatever. And then when people start testing you, like we start pulling your car, expecting you to do certain things, you don't want to do it. Yeah, I seen you do tricks online, do that trick in front of me. Right. That's exactly what they're looking for. Super busted open, like, but I see you in a strip club and you don't even want to bounce. Like, girl, you better bounce that booty. Like, you ain't bouncing all over Instagram. What? You can say that, like you're gonna choke on that. But that's what I'm saying. But this is an era I think this will pass, honestly. Do you? Yes, because everybody, the new era is always learned from the previous area. Right. And, okay, we opened up for all this creativity and then online happened and it allowed people to create fan bases more quickly. And what people started to see that mimicry was getting them there faster. Right. And I can copy and I can be like this, I'm gonna put on the outfit, right? I'm gonna get a tattoo on my face. I'm gonna put on curled up hair. I'm gonna dress like I'm a little dirty or something like that. Like, whatever, you know, whatever, all right? And then this is gonna get me here. And then I'm gonna start doing stupid stuff. I'm gonna bus TVs in a hotel. I'm gonna like drink, like, whatever. You don't even do all these things. But now people, like the kids coming up, they've had the opportunity to watch the rise and the fall, the rise and the fall. So they might recognize, oh, there's some elements that can act as market. We've watched Takashi, right? His situation. Oh boy. He's a perfect example. You can see all these elements where, okay, this is useful and I can use this smart. But how do I do that in a way that's one more authentic to me and that's more sustainable? I think kids, because we'll figure that out. So we'll recognize this area. Well, you know, it was, wow, these people were just. Wow, now. Yeah, they were just doing a whole bunch of stupid shit just to do stupid shit. But the next generation will figure out a way to do that where it's less of that, right? We'll see a little bit more of this R&B stuff. We'll see a little bit of people having their own version of them versus this troll marketing for the sake of troll marketing. But we would have to have a group of people who start to do this in order for the next generation to see it because really, the generation now, they are the young kids that are looking up to this. You know what I mean? YK Osiris, is that a name? YK Osiris? You know, he was just online putting these videos out about the music industry and he was basically like, y'all gotta stop thinking being signed is a blessing from God. It's not from God. And he was like, why is it that, we talking about all the rappers and so-called singers these days because I don't really think we have R&B anymore. I call it rapping B. You know what I mean? It's a lot of rapping B. We have R&B coming, coming back. If you started, R.E. Lennox, right? Okay, yes. Summer Walker-ish. Summer Walker-ish. R.E. Lennox is probably more of the song. LMA. Who else? Daniel Caesar. I feel like R&B to me was those singers who really ad-lib on their tracks. Not where it's just like- Rarely ad-lib. Like, they got the runs runs. Like Tyrese used to have the runs runs. Oh no, you talking about the R&B R&B. I'm talking about R&B R&B. Yeah, that's- We got rapping B. But that was R&B, that era of R&B was R&B with hip-hop experience into it as well. That hard, like the Jagadish, the, not the Shantju, but no. I don't know. J.Y. Right now. No, I don't know about that. But like, all that right there, they were going rougher. They added an edge. Pioneer by Puffy largely, like added that edge to R&B, R&B, hip-hop edge, image-wise and all that stuff. Because it was a little bit smoother going before that. Yeah, but I still feel like R&B back in the day was, like, especially from the male, a male singing R&B, it was really about like making love and stuff. Like the R&B that we have now, they all say the B word. Like, you can't have an R&B song calling females bitches. But that's what I'm saying. You can't have an R&B song talking about, I don't even want to say it, but it's like, this is just a rapping B situation. That is most people, right? For a while, it was like, R&B was for real, for real out of there. But that's what I'm saying. There's people, because of course it never stopped. It just wasn't getting any attention. There was all those artists, but now there's actually been artists that have got attention. What's it mean? The Ella Mai and Ari Lennox, those, they are that now. Definitely Ari. When we'll see, look, all right, I'm feeling some senses about Ella. That's all good, but she got her platform. The only thing that bothers me with Ella is that after every track, she starts talking. Like, in her, listen. That's some R&B stuff. That's some old school R&B. Yeah, but it bothers me. Let me tell you what bothers me. Let me tell you what bothers me. And I love you. He stopped talking like to me. Yeah, but like her accent, listen, I love people with those accents, but it's weird how like your song is so, your voice sounds so American. And then at the end you just, I'm like, who is this? Like, it bothers me. I just be like, girl. It sound like she brought in a poet to. Right, I really want to. Next. I hit the next. Soon as the beat drops. All right, well, no. All right, when we see the rise of R&B come back more heavily, I think will be when we start to see more males though. That's what, cause I feel like women are holding down. Cause there's more names for some reason they're just not coming to me. But like, there's not that many males. Right. That are really. Like Jacquees. And he's more of the rap and beat in a lot of cases. But swear he the king. I can't think of one male that's, cause Bryson Till is a trap soul, which is really what the rap and beat thing is. Exactly. Even like Tori Lane's is like. Yeah, Tori Lane's doesn't do too much like clean cut for real R&B. Right, but Tori Lane's is crazy. So his, I don't know if you listen to his. Like crazy mentally or crazy. No, no, his songs is like lyrically. Like his new project that he just dropped is ridiculous. Chicksake. Was it five? Yep. Yeah, it's crazy. It's definitely crazy. I haven't got a chance to listen to it. I've been wanting to. I feel like it's up there. I got to clean my house first. You know what I mean? I need some open space. I feel you. To fan on, put on a candle or something. You know what I mean? I feel you. But yeah, I don't know man. It's just like getting back to the top because we probably went off a little bit. But it's like, yo, I just feel like artists, I think they, we have the opportunity to be way more authentic these days. But it's like, we got to be, we got to start being comfortable with ourselves, you know, to present ourselves. Cause this, this goes even deeper than just people in general, like being on social media, you know, like every female that I know probably uses a filter. You know what I'm saying? And that, that just plays a part of like how comfortable are you with yourself? You see, I had to pull up with a scarf. Do you see the scarf? Pull up with the scarf, yeah. This is a T-shirt. This ain't even a scarf. You know what I mean? But it's like, yo, that's. Black women are magicians. You feel me? Look, you got to be comfortable with yourself. Cause if you're not comfortable with yourself, people are not going to be comfortable with the real you. And they're going to always expect this character that you feel like you have to present to the world. Man, first of all, hold up. I got to stop for a second. Oh snap what? Cause you talked about how rigged up my equipment was, but you got a T-shirt. First of all, why would you put me on glass? First of all, we can turn these cameras to what we working with. Like we would expect more, but we appreciate you because we appreciate your authentic self. You know, the quality of what you're going to put out is still good, right? So that's the thing. If you're an artist, you're an entertainer, like you can be dope being yourself and then your quality will just shine through, right? Your quality is going to shine through way more than you putting out something that's just putting it out just because you feel like, yo, this is what I got to put out to just be this person or to sell, whatever. The quality is going to start going down. Like Summer Walker might start going down because now you're trying to take the music away from fans, right? You're trying to take that quality, everything that we just invested in. We push your streams up to the max. And now you're talking about you don't want to do music no more. Do you believe as an artist, just because just as a vice, being somebody who thinks about marketing and branding and things like that, do you think an artist can actually build a sustainable career today, right? Just being a recording artist. Because I think it's a different era, right? A recording artist then used to be for real, for a recording artist and it wasn't that much notoriety created about it. But it seems to today, there is a way where you can get so much of the same visibility but never come out in person and make a lot of money. Definitely. So there is a difference between a recording artist and a performing artist. There are recording artists that make six figures and you and me probably never heard of them. But what they do is they build that fan base online, period. They build the fan base online. They have product. Like they really have the super fans cause they are selling albums. You know what I'm saying? Like they're selling albums, they're selling merch, they have fan clubs and that's where they're making most of their income. So, but they only do stuff online. They never pull up to anywhere to perform. Now some of them do live performances where they're broadcasting lives online. You know what I mean? I've been trying to get, I had a few people where I'm like, I've been trying to get them to do that for years. The ability to just broadcast live, interact with people, do a special performance, do an unplug live. There's so many things and versions that you can do live that you couldn't do before that, yeah. There's a lot of capping that. Then we have all these tipping features on TikTok and all these other platforms. You can take tips, you can charge people to get in and they'll still tip you and get some more money out of the process. And so merch, link and buy or link, they go buy and now I have a call to action. All that stuff. All of that. And that's what I'm saying. So for those artists, it's like for everybody feeling like, yo, I want to, I need to get a deal because you feel like getting a deal is going to get you in places that you might not get in. Or whatever the fact, whatever the reason. There's a lot of things that you can do on your own. Like Summer Walker is dope, hands down. Her pin game is dope, her voice is dope. She plays multiple instruments. So she literally could have went the recording artist route if you felt like I'm not a person that likes to be in the public eye. I don't want to be sitting around doing interviews and all that. All right, but here's another thing though. The reality of becoming what she's become is hard to cope with or understand before you get there. So that's another thing. See everything that glittering gold, right? Your mama used to say, I'm gonna let you touch it just so you can see why you shouldn't be touching it, right? So this is really for all of us artists looking at it, we've had artists after artists show us why the music industry or getting signed to a label is probably not the best thing. Like especially now, it's way more artists coming out now that's speaking up about the things that are happening once you sign that contract, right? You said YK Osaru said something like that, right? Right, exactly. So he'd been saying it and then all these weird stuff started happening in his life. He'd been arrested, all that stuff, but he literally was like, bro, like when you sign that paper, his words, you're basically selling your soul. Now one thing about independent artists, like when you sign to a label, you actually become like an employee. Like you're working like a nine to five. You have to bust your ass to get those performances and all this stuff because the labels are giving you this money that you have to give back. At some point. And then it's like most people don't own their masters. They don't own a lot of stuff. So for performing artists, you make your money performing or getting sponsors or having some type of product linking up with a partnership like Cardi B with Fashion Over. You know what I mean? It's like you have to create all these other lanes of income because a lot of that money that comes back in is gonna go to the label and go and go to the team. It gotta be buzzed down like a billion ways. So you have to literally be on call. You gotta go to all of these concerts and be in front of all these people. Do these, like you gotta act like you was a nine to five. You gotta pull up like it's a job. No, yeah. You know what I'm saying? That's the process. People think artists, I'm creative and I just want to do art for a living. But it's so much more to do it sustainably than just do art for a living. Showing up all the time, consistently, maintaining those relationships. You already feel like, oh, you're too you person. No, you got to talk to these people. You go to the radio, you go to somebody's podcast or whatever, you still got to make sure not only do they do it and you pay for the service, it's in your best interest to build a relationship with those people again and again. It's an entire process to really nurture. And that's what I mean though. For one, not even, look, even outside of all that, just to be recognized by a lot of people when you go outside, that's a completely different experience. It's weird. And like I know you've probably come in it, come ahead, like environments where people recognize you, right? But it's different when you think about that, like, what if I'm Justin Timberlake? If I'm Kanye or I'm Jay-Z, Beyoncé, and that's a different, and because of what you do, it's a different type of fan, right? Fortunately, because it's a little bit more education, most of the people are thinking about, like people who are looking for education, typically aren't the same kind of fools that are just, I'm a fan and I'm, you know what I mean? That's a different type of person. I'm addicted to you or I'm like, that's a whole another thing to deal with and people just want you to either dance for them. I just want a picture or I just want to say I saw you so I'm gonna do something stupid to get your attention. And I'm like, that's a whole another level of thing and not to be able to walk outside. That experience is an interesting experience. So I think people aren't prepared for what that's actually like. It does look good, right? So how do you prepare for that though? That's the question. Well, that's the thing. You don't find out till you get there if that's you. So then if you start to realize it's not you, you can do it with someone walk or it's doing. Cause I think it's pretty early. It's weird now, but I think this is a positive move for her to be doing it this early. It'll hurt in the meantime it's for people like fans and all that stuff. But now they can strategize on how do we move forward? But it can possibly, because some people just can't, they can say, oh, I'm not doing music anymore. But if you're signed, you have like obligations that you have to fulfill. Some people can't do that. Right, before you can even get out of a contract. Like she might have a contract that says you have to put out these many albums. Like you can say you're not doing music, but if you're not putting out any albums for us, you're not putting out music period. I don't think she says she's not going to do that. Like LVRN, Love Renaissance, her label, like I've seen the posts, they've been pretty supportive and understanding of that. Of course you never know everything that's going on behind scenes, but they've been supportive of it. And I think they recognize, like the way that team moves, to me they'll be smart enough to also realize that this is a learning experience. Cause maybe there'll be more artists that we can deal with and create a new model. It'll force you to think about new ways. If you want to run business and do business well, recognize that this isn't just an isolated thing. For once she's successful, this gives you an opportunity to learn a new model and create something. How do we maximize on the artist that moves this way? And now as a label, we can take in both types of artists. You want to be out there, do that whole thing, whoop-de-whoop, but we also know how to profit and maximize for the business while also take care of the artist's health in this type of model as well. Okay, boom. So you just said something about artist health, right? Cause I was going to ask you, one thing I feel like that we're getting a lot of is people saying that all of these artists have these disorders, like Kanye, her, anxiety. Her has a, what did you say about her? Not her, I was saying her as in Summer Walker. They were saying she got some stuff going on, the anxiety or depression, which is very real. We have all of these, quote, unquote, like disorders going around within entertainment in general. And this is what actors and stuff too. And then it comes to a point where a lot of our entertainers fall victim to being on drugs, committing suicide. We have a long list of artists committing suicide, actors, all of that stuff. So it's like, how do we cope with that? Because people always say it when I read comments, they're like, but these are the people that the fans put on. These are the people that fans make famous. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, how are we supposed to act or even respond to that? Because even in Summer Walker's case, when everybody was attacking her, all of the celebrity people were like, yo, well, this anxiety or this disease or whatever, this is real and people need to understand that. We're not just robots, we're people and blah. So one, you know how people say the more money you get, you become more of yourself or people change, it really is projecting you on a larger level. So people can say that positively, but it also shows negatively. I always say when something scales, when it gets more exposure, the issues get exposed, right? Whether it's your business and then you realize, ooh, I gotta get my process together or whether you're a person and you realize, oh man, I should have fixed this broken heart of me. And it exposes that brokenness, but most people aren't exposed to that level of attention so that brokenness doesn't get analyzed. They don't even have to encounter and come to grips with it because they're unaware with it. It's only when you're going through something or you get hit with it, right? You might, oh, you might find somebody in a relationship that you finally actually love or something. For real, for real, finally. And then you say, man, how come I can't get past that point, dang, I got daddy issues or dang, I got, you know, like it's only when it matters that it becomes a thing. So there's this group of people who've actually crossed that threshold and they're telling you it's like this over here, but the truth is no matter how much we hear it intellectually, everybody always thinks I wouldn't. If I had that much money, if I had this, like they can't relate. It's like a type of, it's attention classism, right? They don't understand, they can't connect. So like what gets done about it is one, people have to humanize people. Like you have to realize like we're not this, they're not an object. Because the whole mentality of we consumed you, we put you on is wack. First of all, you one individual, it's not like you as a group of fans and say we all about to put them on. You like this person, you like, all right, if you wanna stop listening to me because of this, cool, whatever, you know what I mean? But like we don't own you now. That's how people, like we put you on, we owned you, now dance. And that's the same mentality that honestly, like when you look back in the history, how they had black people could do, they couldn't have rights, but then they could be entertainers, right? It was the same way. Like we own you, do what we want you to do. You don't get the access to the same human level of empathy. And that's the issue with that to me. So the way you saw for it is one, fans need to educate, be educated and understand more. I think there's gonna be more of it because there's more people that get it. Just because social media, more people get exposed to that level of attention versus before, it was just a huge gap, right? In terms of attention. But now there's a lot of people who still have some level of, so like you got like 24K or something like that on Instagram or something like that. You know what I mean? Like back in the day, that wouldn't have been the same. Like you might've had, you know, you might've been known, but it wouldn't be one platform, people could constantly see you with it, right? So I think the fan education is a huge part of it. Obviously awareness and people doing whatever they need to health-wise and having that self-awareness is another part of it. And then another part of it is the infrastructure of the music industry is built on a lot of serving vices for artists, right, and being able to control them, right? So I'm gonna serve you these vices and we're gonna have this whole mindset of you need these things for your creativity to actually be activated, right? So now you feel like you need this to do what you need to do. And this thing also allows me to keep you in this space where I can just take the money into business and I can live my merry go lucky life and you are in this whole state of flux and now you get attached to something and damn, you dead. But that sucks for about three weeks and now I gotta find another artist that I can link up with, right? So I think as people become more and more independent and think for themselves and not all go through the same system, people will begin to be able to think for themselves to a standpoint of, hey, this was good for my business. This is good for the lifestyle that I wanna live. I don't have to prescribe or subscribe to the same system that everybody has put and wanted me to do. And they'll start to, once again, watch all this stuff happening with these other artists and realize I don't need this. I'll see some other artists pop up and be successful. Chance is something he did so well so quickly that it's hard for people to feel like he's touchable and use him as an example. But some artists like Russ make it a little bit more touchable in some ways, even though he creates a whole persona that still makes it a little less. But then you still will see somebody like Arizona Zervis. I don't know if you know who he is. He has a song called Rock Sand that popped on TikTok and he's still indie and he's even more touchable. He doesn't have, I don't think, the artist awareness in the community yet but you'll start to see more of those stories in these case studies and people will be able to believe in themselves. Now, one thing that you were saying was, people getting to the point where they're not really like following the trends of what's going on. They're kind of like standing out their own tools, you know, kind of being separate from like everybody is doing the same things. And like right now we have just to switch gears for a second, we have like Kaepernick, right? We was kind of talking about him and he's somebody that just started standing up for something different, right? But now we have a situation where he had this opportunity come about and he kind of like dipped off on it, you know what I mean? Which is like a lot of people was like, bro, I thought this is what we were going for. Okay, so just for people who aren't clear on what happened, right? Obviously Kaepernick, collar Kaepernick football player quarterback has been kind of black ball, at least that's how people feel, right? Out of the league for about three years now, NFL scheduled a workout for him. Short notice, there's all these details, right? That are a sketchy on both sides, but short notice point is he made some drastic changes at the end where he didn't show up and he rescheduled it to be an hour away from what flowery branch to Riverdale. If you in Atlanta understand what that is and what that could be like at three o'clock on Saturday, that could be an hour even more away. So you tell people this basically 30 to 10 minutes beforehand and then wearing a Kuta Kente shirt and all these things and having this speech where you are antagonizing the NFL. People just felt like, like you said, like, yo, what happened? I thought this is what we wanted. Your actions don't seem to be in line with what we wanted, right? So I don't know, for me, right? Mark it in Brandon's standpoint. I'm not gonna get into the cultural commentary and opinion here or there. I think there's of course there's always valid points on both sides. We wanna go that route. But let's just speak from Kaepernick's standpoint, right? Cause we already know what the NFL is. It's a system and it's not that they don't, it's sports agency, sports organizations, all that stuff as a whole. It's a corporation. Yes, you can say people are racist. Yes, you can say things like they don't care about. Like you can attribute all those things to them. But the point is when it comes to the money most of the time, they don't really care. Like I think we over index on how much people care due to the racism standpoint, just to be real. Like those corporations, if the money's moving forward, they don't really care, right? Like this is like, I will, do I care about breast cancer? Not really, but I'm gonna still, but no for real, I'm gonna, but I'm gonna do a breast care awareness month cause it's good for PR. And then also I'm selling breast care awareness, breast cancer awareness merch. And they get 10% of it, but I'm really, this is another revenue model cause people rock with this, right? And I, oh, this organization, this other cause, all this stuff is still making me money at the end of the day. And I'm moving along without any distractions. Kaepernick became a distraction. Tentibo, if you don't understand what happened with him, very, very similar to Kaepernick, except it was Jesus and people, and him not being as good as people thought. People didn't think he was as good or worth their attention he was getting. I'll just try to sum it up that way. But he became a distraction. Even Carmelo Anthony to the extent in which he finally just got back in the league. Some of it was an distraction. And you'll find that a lot of times for players that aren't so, are at a point in their career where it's like, you're not obvious where you'll make, you're the best in the world, but maybe you had that level of notoriety for whatever reason, but we don't think you worth it. Like Lonzo Ball because of his dad. It's like, we don't think you worth it. No, it's questionable if you're worth it talent-wise, right? But you're bringing starter attention, superstar attention, and people are asking about it. That's a distraction for us at the end of the day. You getting away of us just making money as fast and quietly as we want to. I think that's, people don't consider that part as much, which is still creates a lot of effed up stuff, right? But it's like, that's why. The other things are just, other narratives and comments. So like, cap. And I was like, you're comment on this obviously. Like, you said, I thought we were gonna do this, right? I thought we wanted this. And I think that's the biggest question. Like, when you're talking to your fan base, they need to be clear on what you want. Right, because you got all of these people that are like, you don't round everybody up, right? You know what I'm saying? We got kids at school kneeling right now. You know what I mean? We got all this stuff happening for the change. And then, you know, the opportunity came for, you know, to shed some light on you in a positive way. And was like, okay, this is the first step in the right direction. So we, everybody was kind of excited for him, you know? And then he kind of like started switching stuff up. And then you get to a point where it's like, you kind of got to pick sides at some point. Like, like that cap. Like, I'm trying to be on your side with this, right? But it's like, why would you do all of this stuff? And then, you know, the whole thing would like, you know, Jay-Z getting into the NFL, you know, after he went on his track and was like, y'all need me, I don't need you. And all this, you know, he was just so team cap, you know what I'm saying? And then he got into the NFL. And then everybody was like, oh, you sold out, you this, this and this. And so I was like, I always wondered like, I don't know if Jay-Z kind of had a hand in, you know, setting the situation up. That's what a lot of people are saying. That's what they're saying, right? Because I know I seen him like make some type of comment and was like, you know, he put his reputation on the line, you know, it's like putting his reputation on the line, getting into the NFL because of all the stuff that he said. And I think someone said, so I think Dave Rock Nation released the official statement saying that he basically hasn't talked to anybody saying nothing, but that was like something that people have said, he said too, it's another, you know, all this stuff becomes, he say, she say, right? But that's the problem because what you're alluding to is just confusion. So when I think about clarity being one of the strongest parts of brands, like it was cool when our NFL cap, but now when you have people that were on cap side starting to get a division, I thought that was what we wanted. Of course you're going to have the other people that just ride, yeah, he's thinking it to the man again. Like, you know, but you're starting to create division within your own fan base, right? And that's when stuff starts to become confusing because you haven't really stated openly to my knowledge, right? This is clearly what we want. We're just constantly following the story. And then everybody's building opinion and narrative, but it's never coming directly for them. They might say, oh, we didn't say that here and there, but they haven't really said, hey, this is what we're going for, this is where we work, because remember, this all started because of police brutality, right? So it's like, are we still working on that? Is that what you're still doing? Or now is it just about the fact you were wronged? Which is another, like, you weren't wronged. Are you salty cracker? And now it's like, you know what I mean? And he was wronged, right? But this- Like, what is the end goal? Yeah, like, that's what, what is the end goal and why? Are you trying to make a personal statement against the system? Because now it's starting to feel like egos. Like, is you, now we're just watching a battle of you against this thing, or do you have a reason that you're doing what you're doing to affect a greater good for maybe future players in the NFL? Or for them not to have to deal with stuff, set precedent? I don't know, but that's the point. Like, when you call for supporters, especially if it's something that's drawn out, like, people at some point, like, all right, why are we doing this? They gonna start asking questions, you know what man? Let me just watch this football, bro, because I'm tired, man. Like, this is just another day. It's the only way I can connect with my son. So it was like, I love you, Cap, but now that's where it's starting to come through. I love you, buts. And it's crazy, I feel like, you know, just what our entertainers in general, first of all, it's just amazing how much, like, the things that people that we kinda look up to as entertainers, like, the things that they do or don't do, like, literally be affecting us, you know, or fans, like, that's our life, you know what I mean? Like, we be feeling it. When you go through something, we feel it. When you're saying you're not dealing with something, like, you can literally, everybody went on, like, we're not buying Gucci. So like, the whole world's like, oh, we're not buying Gucci. And then as soon as like, artists be like, oh, we buying Gucci again. It's like, now everybody wanting Gucci belts again. You know what I mean? It's crazy how, like, the world is affected by these people that are in, you know, the position to have these platforms and to really, like, set the tone for certain things. You know what I mean? And I think that's one reason why, coming back to you being authentic about yourself, who you are, your brand and what you stand for, like, I think that's why it's so important because we have so many of, you know, the younger people looking up to certain people and like, this is what I wanna be. This is what I wanna do. You know what I mean? We're creating a generation of little monsters right now. You know what I mean? Like, we got a bunch of monsters in this world. Like, we got a whole bunch of savages. You feel me? Like, they just ready to just do so many things because of what they are seeing from like, these big people. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, yo, you gotta be clear. Like, who are you? What are you standing for? So I can figure out, like, sometimes I need to figure out who I am versus, you know, who I'm looking up to. You know what I mean? Or what I associate myself with, right? So I think like, when it comes to artist and branding and all like you were saying, like it just, it definitely has to be a clear message. Like, and at some point we gotta figure out, like, are you moving this way because you feel a way or because like you're trying to change something or you know what I'm saying? Like, we gotta figure this thing out. Yep, that's all it comes down to at the end of the day, right? Because now you get elevated to a position of leadership and you have to lead. Or you can clearly try to pass off leadership but you need to be clear about what that looks like. They be like, oh, I'm not a leader. I'm just like, I'm chill. Like you can, there's even ways to communicate that to your fan base. That's a whole another conversation. There's a lot of artists who be like, I'm not nobody's role model, like. Right, yeah, a lot. So many people, but then why do they say that? Because they aren't aware of what it's like to the other side till they get there and then they realize, oh snap. This little thing I said, this little girl literally just built her whole life around that. I wore this haircut and now I got a whole school wearing this haircut and then it is the way to do it. And then of course some of the older people who have a different way of looking at things will say, yo, like, you need to get your stuff right and the artist is trying to push back against all of those things. You don't expect to be in that position but it comes back to, once again, your authenticity. What's you? Because if you start from that place it makes it easier to handle the other things as opposed to like somebody like Book apparently as based on what he said where I was like parroting or, well, peacocking I guess is better word. Yeah. He's not like somebody's grandma, not peacocking, it's my auntie. But now like he was putting on this image, right? And then everything's being built off of something you don't necessarily even believe in. And once it gets to that other side it becomes a monster that's growing in and of itself. So I know it could be hard to deal with but yeah, authenticity makes it a lot easier on the front end. So that goes back to the initial question of the podcast. Is getting into the industry a dream filler? Is it filling for filling people's dreams or is it a dream killer? Is it killing people's dreams? For me, you know, I can't go more in one particular way. I would say ultimately it kills people's expectations. They think it's this thing, they weren't educated on it. They came into this life as a consumer and you've been sold this image of what it's like. And then dealing with it as a business, as most of these business working in AT&T, ain't all just being on the cell phone. You know what I mean? You get to see that and there's a lot of, there's definitely an ugly side to it, 100%. You know what I mean? There's definitely a lot of shadiness to it but that's the part that people don't get to see. Even just the regular work, above all the evil stuff that might happen. Artists don't see, they just see, like on the front end as a consumer, you see the stage. You see, you hear the music, you know what I mean? You see the interviews. Now we're in an era where you can get educated on more to other sides before, before and, but that's why I think ultimately it's gonna be handled right because we're seeing this, we have more access to more sides of it. So at some point it won't even be killing expectations because the expectations will be a little bit more, you know, it'll be based on real information or more perspective and context. So pretty much it's your obligation as an artist or entertainer or creative or a business for whatever you're doing. It's kinda like your responsibility to really research and study and start looking into things like before you jump into these contracts, these deals, you know, whatever these, these partnerships or whatever you're doing, it's like really on us to do some research because I feel like especially now a lot of those answers are in front of our face, you know? How is it when you sign the things you go through? I feel like those answers are in front of our face because these artists are basically telling us, some of them tell us without even telling us just the way that they move, the way that they look, they're, you know, the things that they're putting out on social media, the way that they're sitting in interviews looking like I don't even wanna be here. You know what I mean? The answers, they're putting this stuff out to us but we, sometimes when we want something so bad, it's like we don't see all the negative stuff, you know what I mean? We ignore all the signs just because like, all I see is what I want, you know what I mean? So I think it's important, you know, for everybody to really like start doing your research and then understand your own words, you know what I mean? If you know you got talent, if somebody really wants to pick you up, that means somebody else probably wanna pick you up, you know what I mean? That means you got something, right? So it's like, I think it's important for us to learn how to like turn ourselves into business and manage ourselves and market ourselves and wear these hats ourselves so that we understand what it even takes to get to that level. And we know that we put the work in because once you, if you start setting those type of goals and you start, you know, climbing up, knowing that you have been the one getting you there, like I feel like that will just make our indie community feel like, yo, I can do more, like I can do this. I don't really need such and such to coast on me. Like I'm already, I got the momentum, you know what I mean? I feel like if more artists went that route and really put the work in to really build up their brand, build up their fan base and all that good stuff, I feel like they will appreciate the indie side of things and kind of like keep that going and not be so pressed to sign this deal because somebody's coming at them talking or I can give you this and give you that. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I think everything's trying to in the right direction. In my opinion, I know people are negative, but I'm typically an optimist in a lot of that area of things. But look, we wanna know what y'all's answer is. Does it fulfill dreams? Does it kill dreams? Other than that, look, no name podcast once again, but that's only because we don't have one. We want y'all to give us something, hopefully, but if it's wack, we just hopefully we're gonna have to figure out something ourselves, right? But we wanna do this, let us know. If y'all are just interested in something else that we should talk about at some point, we'll get, we're working on it. We're working on it. Appreciate y'all's support in being here. It's Lady J Bookums. Lady J Bookums, follow me on Instagram at Lady J Bookums. Follow me on IG at brandmanshon. Hit that subscribe button. All that good stuff, we out. Peace.