 Hello and welcome to NewsClick, I'm Shreya Singh and today we have with us Kavita Lankesh, our renowned filmmaker and the sister of your late journalist activist Gauri Lankesh who was assassinated on September 5th, 2017. Kavita's film Gauri has won the Best Human Rights Film Award at the Toronto Women's Film Festival 2022 and today she has joined us to talk more about this. So welcome to NewsClick Kavita and thank you so much for joining us today. First off, congratulations on this award. Can you tell us something about the journey of this film and how did the making of this film go? Did you face any challenges while filming? Yeah, a lot of fit actually. Initially when I heard there was a free press unlimited a company called Free Press Unlimited in Amsterdam who were funding projects and they were asking seeking products throughout the world to impunity to a journalist and I thought okay why not apply? Somebody told me why don't you apply it? And I was really hesitant because 1-8 was Gauri's second you know the way she was assassinated. Do I really want to revisit the whole experience? I was quite hesitant but I thought okay let's just apply it we'll see maybe I won't get it you know. And also the fear of making it itself I mean there's so many you know thoughts which are going on directly and everything but then I just applied it in here with the whole project how I want to do it and everything and the four products selected across the world one of it was mine and it took about two years because in between as you know one year was a whole lockdown and a whole lot of fun because of the pandemic we could travel we could shoot and all that but when we did start to do some research and also collect what kind of narrative are we going to film? It was kind of very painful I must say because you know I was as Gauri is always I keep telling everybody she makes me work at least once a day in a week because some papers some tell this challenge across the world keep asking me can you send a photograph can you write about her or can you do this and you know once a week it's always been on and now it's been a whole one year completely dedicated to her and I think it was both triumph you know triumph as well as pain while making it actually because pain was when when I visited the places she had been to and talked to people she's worked with and you know and also I feel proud of her because the kind of things she has managed to do you know the issues she has tried to address over the years talk about it write about it intervene with the government to resolve the issues to a certain extent from tribals to the power would be the issue which was her first case for instance since the journey from 2000 we have taken when she shifted from the English daily to the regional paper of my father's so from there onwards till her death and clear assassination is what the film is all about actually and at a time when press freedom is being attacked and people are being imprisoned for their beliefs and their work for the marginalized communities I think it becomes even more important to talk about Gauri's work in her life so can you also tell us something about what does Gauri mean to you and what did journalism mean to Gauri no Gauri I think I mean of course she meant I always say she was just not my sister she was always my soulmate and my best friend because we would exchange you know all our creative works two ways to fight and everything but of course any article you know it was very funny when she shifted from English to Canada she didn't really know that she didn't know the master she didn't master the Kannada language it took a couple years to master it and she reached a stage after two years when she could correct proofread other people's writing though she was not familiar because we could read but not really write Kannada that fluently or that rapidly you know but the same thing happened reverse when she was asked to write late-front to come into combat or to helco or Bangalore there are so many papers she was writing occasional writing freelance writing weekly one scholar kind of thing so she suddenly started getting teachers that I can't think in English anymore you know it was shift of over the years and there's a lot of transformation I have observed while making the film or even before that to what she was when she came from Delhi to Bangalore and what she was here you know I mean I think in Delhi she was you know a little more distanced from the issue she would write about it and move on to another article especially since she was working under somebody here she reached out to the grassroots level I mean she wrote about it on and on every every week she would bring an article about different issues which was close to her heart and she got involved I mean that's why I always say she surpassed him not just journalist she also became an activist you know so that's how she would not just write and forget about it but she would sit there in protest she would go on paray or you know more protest walks or I mean everything she was doing the journey was with her I think she was with the journey throughout and that was the transformation and yeah I mean it's been five years and I mean you continue to miss in various aspects every day me and my daughter and my mother so I mean like day to day activities because we would meet every weekend I would meet almost every day we should spend time with us in the weekends and you know we would catch up on various things personal and professional you know so that's something I miss a lot you know and and she would keep me updated because as you know the freedom of press is so little and they don't even cover if it's some maybe a small but very important issue in some remote corner of the country you know they would just every day it keeps happening they sideline it to some small column and I mean or they don't even publish it so these are things she would talk to me about you know atrocities which are happening against the Dalai to the minority so these things which were not apparent in the television channel or the newspaper she would discuss with me and talk to me or even my daughter at that point so these are the smaller but most important issues which she dealt with and she was obsessed about which I miss you know talking to somebody about those kind of issues yeah without talking about the trial like you also mentioned it's been five years after several delays the trial started in July this year so do you think it's achieve it's going to achieve it's really nearing anywhere near the idea of justice that you have in your mind I trust the justice system in spite of how many things that are happening recently do I know that you know the court is a very very bogged down by a lot of cases and it does take a lot of time in India and it's been five years as you mentioned and it's finally started but I'm glad that a couple of things I'm happy about is that it started first of all for one and secondly that the judge which was previously was presiding he dedicated about five days a week to this Gauri's case so almost like a sweet time which we were asking the government to do so that with that is very good things which happened again the hearing was on the October 10th to 15th it starts off and yeah I mean I think 350 witnesses are there in various different you know sectors like the investigation team as well as the person of everybody so I was one of the first one to be questioned because I was the one filed FIR and yeah they grilled me for three hours but it's fine I mean yeah it's the the truth should win Gauri should get justice in the end of it all that's all but it's not it's even if she gets justice it's not just about her it's about journalists across the country it's about secular people it's about people are fighting for the democratic and constitutional rights it's all a win for them as well I think I mean it's people who they said at least it shows that people can't be silenced you know I think Gauri lives on once she gets justice not only in the court but again as I said making this film is also for me more than winning the award I think it's important that what she stood for is reaching out across the country and I would like to have multiple shows in India as well especially a lot of students colleges have come forward wanting to screen it and Gauri always believed is the you know new younger generation who can be the change in this country we have to have some hope so hopefully you know this film will reach and and there's a lot of misconceptions also about her that she's an axolite and you know things like that just because she had fought you know against an axolite saying drop your arms coming to the democratic society in fact so these are the things which I've tried to clear up in the film as well which is stood for and again one important thing is I'm not trying to you know personify her or make her into a grand heroine I'm trying to make her as human as possible with you know showcasing a little flaws as well so I think it's a humane story the film and which was what Gauri stood for I think you are right to point out that people cannot be silenced they will keep speaking up in whatever medium they find the most comfortable in your previous interviews also you've mentioned that you prefer to express your beliefs and opinions through your medium that's films so coming back to the film what was the message that you were trying to express you tried attempted to express through this film as I said I wanted you know there were a lot of misconceptions about Gauri she was that she was anti-Hindu she was not against Hindu she was against Hindutva extreme right-wing attitudes and I tried to clarify all those and also tried to portray what the right-wing people have threatened the trolled her fought with her you know abused her physically these the kind of things which I've showed because whatever wing you are I mean if you try to resort to violence that's when you know I mean this is what our country is becoming it's becoming so divisive so polarized I mean we have managed to perceive hatred in each and every family I think you know every family there's somebody you don't want to talk to you know because your ideologies are different and there's some kind of fur this is what has seeped in over the years and this blatant you know on the arm kind of show a showmanship of upper casteism which is all there now rampant around us and this is what exactly what Gauri was against these things you know so that's what I've tried to portray and I mean by showing her itself a lot of these layers have opened up I would say yeah and as a last question that I would want to post to you Kavita is that five years later do you think what has changed when it comes to freedom of speech in the country the press index has gone worse over the years but apparently the powers to be don't believe in it so they don't believe in the index at all but as you know this is kind of a scare I mean I was talking to one of the top journalists the other day and he was telling me that it's become worse the scenarios become so horrible that you can't mean you can't go out with your family or you can't really if you threaten every minute you know because it's not just the an individual who's trying to attack you or the face this people are trying to attack you but it can be a mob and then the mob there's no explanation there's no chance you know you can't really pinpoint at a mob and say somebody so it's they're set free and this is a scary thing and as you know even I myself when I mean I'm not a great Twitter that way on social media that much I would be shared few things which of course mattered and which influenced me or you know which I believed in the in a subset of issues I would but there's a kind of a hesitancy in you do you have to can you or do you want to post it or repost it or have any opinion about it because you don't want to be dealing with these you know attacks all the time and this a kind of self-censorship which is seeping seeping into all of us I think and that is what does it say about freedom of press or freedom of speech completely getting you know getting lesser and lesser and one day we'll just be like sheep in a herd that's going without talking in this following the mighty leader I think yeah and thank you yeah and I hope as I said again the younger generation yeah I guess youth the students movement is quite good I hope really they stand up and you know voice their opinion out boolean freely without fear definitely I hope the day comes to and thank you so much for that thank you for joining us today Kavita we are hoping to see the movie as soon as possible this beautiful movie that you made thank you so much for giving us your time thank you and that's all we have for today for more such stories please keep following news click and also follow us on Twitter Facebook and Instagram