 Welcome to The Advocate, where thought-provoking topics are discussed with no-holds-bad here on Plus TV Africa. We basically call a spade by its name. Today, all the advocates are in one voice against bullying. Famous American actress Madeline Pesh said, �The people who are bullying you, they're insecure about who they are, and that's why they're bullying you. It never has to do with the person they're bullying. They desperately want to be loved and be accepted, and they go out of their way to make people feel unaccepted so that they're not alone. I am talking about the duty of care within the educational system. Helen focuses on the responsibilities of parents, schools and the government. Elijah is looking at correcting a failed system through the educational environment. Benetton is asking if the child has any rights, and Tolu is calling for home training and social security of the children. Sit back, and after this break, we'll be here to dissect it all. Stay with us. Bullying and the duty of care within the education system. This past week has been one of tragedy upon tragedy in relation to the care of our children within the educational system. Two particular cases have summed up my fears about my own children and what could happen to them in school. First is the alleged murder of Sylvester O'Romany at during college. Who had been the victim of ongoing bullying until he was eventually brutalized resulting in his death? The second of a school which supposedly carries out inclusive education yet keeps its special needs students in a separate room using actual physical restraints and electroshock treatment on them. These are just two cases and what we know must be many more. Having two children, one a boy who looks mixed race, has a gentle and kind spirit as well as a daughter with Down syndrome. I worry about the possibility of them being bullied. At home I do my part to teach my son to stand up for himself and always to inform his teacher or grown up in school if any incident happens and most importantly to always tell me. That if anyone threatens him if he speaks up that still he should immediately tell a member of staff at school and me as soon as he gets home. Even if they threaten him, his sister or myself with physical harm. For the daughter who has learning delays it is harder to do. We place scenarios and teach her to shout, run and defend herself. But the comprehension for something like this just isn't there yet. So I do the work at home. But what happens at school? When we hand over our precious ones the school is responsible for them at all times during those school hours. If something happens there should be immediate protocols to follow. But who is monitoring and regulating the schools? Honestly if private schools are left to regulate themselves as they currently are there is very little hope of anything changing. If governments are not willing to regulate fees exploitation something I believe is a lot easier to tackle why would they regulate duty of care protocols? I especially worry for my special needs daughter because students with disabilities are two to three times more likely to be bullied and up to six times more likely to experience physical violence than their neurotypical peers. Children with learning disabilities are two and a half times more likely to suffer sexual abuse and sexually based violence than their peers without learning disabilities. In my eye it is past time of talking. Now is the time to rally and go beyond the knee jerk emotions. We must push our elected officials and those in government to tighten existing laws and create better ones to tackle regulation as our children are not safe in schools. This is a human rights issue. It goes beyond posting on social media. We must petition state and federal legislature. We must make our physical presence known about this issue and we must make sure of regulation and enforcement of education institutions and those who work within them. We must act. And we must act now. Yeah. So I'll say two things. The first thing is, you know, I think it's a good time to give a minute of silence for Sylvester, you know, because if you think about it, second is throughout history there are people who have started a revolution. Think about Rosa Parks. I said no. Think about Martin Luther King, right? Think about George Floyd. Okay. And I think Sylvester was without George Floyd, you know. This issue didn't start today, it didn't start last week, you know, but at some points one person would say no. Unfortunately Sylvester had to give his life for it. But I think this is a time that the revolution starts and it begins with me and you, you know. We shouldn't have to wait until someone dies, you know. But we must act now. Parents have to start being more responsible with their children. Schools have to put systems in place that make bullying unacceptable on any count. But my thing is that aren't there existing things in place? There are existing things in place, but it seems that there's a very kind of lax attitude. Yeah, they're not enforced. I mean, it's just like the government in Nigeria, they're laws against, you know, traffic, laws against tax. I mean, there are laws. But if it's not properly enforced, until someone starts to have it, it's just the way we're designed as humans, until there's punitive measures and there's actual enforcement and there's, you know, there's consequences for those actions. People don't take them seriously. This issue of bullying didn't start now, just like you said. When our parents were in school, I'm sure they experienced it. It's always a common expectation that when you get into secondary school, they'll tell you when you get there, your seniors will ask you to sweep their classroom or ask you to buy something and they won't give you money or they won't give you enough money and they demand more than what they give you. So they expect you to add your own money. All these things are, I remember when I was in secondary school, I myself, I experienced one. I think I was in J.S.3 and there was this particular guy in S.S.3 that asked me to do something and I told him I was going to, I was going somewhere I was not to find. The next night, just so I got a slap on my face, I guess what I, I went home, I told my mom, my mom followed me to school and reported to one soldier and the moment the soldier asked for me, because I went to military school, this guy saw me later. I started apologizing, had to apologize to my mom. So I had to not tell my mom that, okay, she let him go since he has apologized. Ever since that time, he became my friend. The next time when he sees me, he just became my friend. But my point is, most people don't get lucky like myself, you know. Students, they pass through this as like an expectation, like a common mindset. We need to change. I can understand that. I can understand that there's a certain protocol, right? There's certain hazing or something that most school, just the nature of the younger ones. If I call it what it used to be in my boarding school in England, it was called the faggot system. That's what it was called in our boarding school. It wasn't a sexual thing, but that's what it was called. So the younger boys would be the servant of the older boys. They would take their laundry, tidy up the room, make their beds, all that kind of stuff. So you are assigned your, your senior. And you literally had to serve that senior. But it's really proper, that's the question. It isn't, it isn't, it isn't. He's not proper. But it seems like a natural thing that happens. My issue is that it isn't Lord of the Flies because they're not abandoned alone on some desert island. There are adults there. There are people who are in charge. And you cannot tell me that absolutely no one, no one knew what was going on or knows the environment that exists in that school. The problem is with that, regarding that school, is that it's a wealthy school. So the people who attend there have money. And that means that one, the school, wants to make sure to be taken that money. And two, that they will adhere and bend to the will of those parents. But rather than what is right, sorry, any good, sorry, I'm firing today. No, I think, I mean, I understand what you're saying. But I'm also trying to be conscious of the fact that, yes, this one school may be the one that is in the spotlight today. But it's a crisis. It's a crisis across the board. So is it just about the fact that the schools are like looking to take the money or even parents are complicit? Or even where do we draw the line? Because as we've all said from different experiences, I mean, everybody experienced some sort of seniority, you know, that kind of there's a right of passage, sort of, so to speak. But isn't it, because one of the things I kept on thinking was, where he said, enough is enough. So what are we supposed to be doing next? What are we pushing for? What are we actually fighting for? What exactly is the next level for this kind of crisis? Before I say what I think is next. Let's hear from Helen. Let's hear from Helen, are you there? Yes. Well, unfortunately, I never experienced bullying. And that's maybe because I was a kind of a bully myself. But, you know, I went to a military school and whatever was a punishment was a punishment because one did something wrong. But the unfortunate thing we have here now is that it's not actually the seniors being the bullies. It's actually your mates bullying you. That's a whole new dimension. I can't imagine my classmates bullying me, or beating me, or whatever the case may be. So I say, we really need to look at this thing critically and find out where is it actually coming from? Why are these children becoming mini-monsters? What is responsible for this mini-monster facade? And look at it deeper and not look at it from the point of, if the senior that is doing the bullying, or the teacher doing the bullying, let's look at it from the classmate point of view. What gives the classmate the audacity to bully his fellow colleague or fellow classmate to the extent that he has a mind to commit murder? Yeah. So I think that kind of, I really like that Helen has a technique from. I think that, at this point in time, with what Tonya has raised as her advocacy, the audacity is one of the things that I have seen when it comes to children, and I'm not a child expert. The only part I can talk about with this is that, I mean, I'm a certified children's etiquette coach. I was interested when I was doing my certification. There was an area on bullying, and I found it interesting. I was like, why bullying? But then I know that things are coming out. I realize that issues around self-esteem, peer pressure, what makes it, and then when you, the quote that said, oh, it's not about the victim, but the person who is bullying. So what gives another child the audacity to look at his peer or happy and say, I want to put you down? It's where, at that point in time, the duty of care within the education system, where you have adults who are supposed to regulate how interaction goes on amongst children. And I think that's where the failure is happening in this particular case, as with this particular case. They even have the training to identify such things, a thorough training to identify such things, because literally, the schools are doing anything they want. That's a problem. You cannot leave the perpetrator to regulate themselves. And I think those parents actually have, I mean, you know what? So I think that, yes, I think it starts from the parent. Yes, but that's into your portion. Yeah, let's leave it at that. Let's not do that, because we're going to start entering everybody else's territory. Yeah, but I mean, you're talking about rules and rights. I mean, there are rules already in place in those schools. I mean, bullying is not, if it's not acceptable, it's not. If you have to put signs everywhere, if you have to hold weekly sessions to remind, because I mean, children can be programmed. So intention matters. Yes, absolutely. After the break, Helen is next. After the break, stay with us. Bullying, responsibility of the parent and the school. Bullying is the use of force, coercion, harmful teasing, threats, and abuse that is always dominated on the individual. There are many warning signs that are indicated that someone is affected by bullying, either being bullied or bullies themselves. Recognizing the warning signs is an important first step when you're taking action against bullying. No more children who are bullied or who are being bullied ask for help. A child has a right to be educated in a clean, safe environment without any obstacles that are going to be obstructive to the learning. The school has a duty of care to provide it and the parents have a duty of care to pay for the services that the school is actually rendering. First, let's examine what makes bullying such a trend? Why are children indulging in it? Most students that actually enjoy bullying are actually a product of a bullying environment. It is important to understand that your environment makes 90% of your character. And when you're subjected to bullying in that environment, the tendency is that you will continue in another environment. Those are just statistics. It doesn't mean it actually applies in all cases. There are certain things that parents don't consider as bullying and they consider it as their child standing up for their rights. So we have to look at critically what do we understand by bullying in each and every environment as well as in each culture? What is the way forward? It should be no tolerance, no tolerance, zero tolerance, no child should be subjected to bullying and we really do need to stand up and make sure that that is the case. Where's the research that there's been bullying, especially Nigerian schools? We hardly have many cases because most parents or most children don't come out and say they're being bullied because they're still in the target environment. What does the constitution have? What does the constitution say? And it is clear that the constitution says that a child has the right to be educated and that education should be quality education. But however, our public schools and federal schools have led us down. We are seeking respect in private schools. The act of collective school fees, acceptance fees and all ridiculous penalties have driven the issue of no accountability of private schools to the government. We can't do it alone, definitely, but we can do it together. And we don't have to wait for another child to die and we don't have to wait to know that these children have the rights under our constitution. In my opinion, we have let these children down as citizens of Nigeria, but more so, the government has also let them down. We can look at the notable case of the Chibok girls. What's happened, we don't know, Sylvester now has come and this is a situation we find ourselves. Most schools have not been monitored since inception and in every state, there is a department of quality and assurance who are supposed to monitor schools, but most of them have not had that inspection since they had inaugurated their schools years ago. What are we saying now? The monetary team in the ministry, they've all become elephants in the room. I think, very interesting comments by Helen, but I really think that one of the things that's going on here is a case of when you build high walls and fences to protect yourself against intruders and you don't care about what is the actual cost and eventually your walls get climbed upon by those people outside you. I remember many years ago while doing a lot of advocacy around issues in Lagos state. And I went to the office of the then attorney general and he said one thing, said that he's very, very worried. This was almost about what's going to happen in Lagos over the next couple of years. And because those things are, so what is happening here, which is what Helen is pointing out, we have had all those schools. We've all left the public school system because we felt they were not good enough. But they did it many times, they've been carrying cries from different angles for all of us to actually put an eye and ask questions as to what exactly is going on in there. Who's advocating for teaching training? Who's pushing for standards? And so now the private schools that we all ran to are paid through our nostrils and felt that they were good and now letting us down. So maybe really, as Helen's advocates say, responsibility of parents and schools be your parents who have children in schools, responsibility of adults to say, we want the education system to actually be looked into. We want to call on the ministry of education across all the states. What are the standards? What are the monitoring boards? And like when Helen said about QM evaluation, monitoring evaluation, I think that, I mean, I may have a slight, I don't know because I have worked in the education space for a bit and interestingly, yes, it does go all the way after well, but they do come to the schools and one of the challenges that school owners have is that, of course, when they finally come, there's a lot of the other requests that come into play and so you literally can do the Nigerian and go and get away with some things. Exactly. So which is what I was going to say? Just corrupt again. Yeah, that's, someone needs to monitor the monitor. That's another dimension. This is a question that is going to monitor the monitor. Because if you think it can cause direct debt, but indirectly it causes debt. If somebody is not doing that, you actually think you have to, right? The truth is, like I said, there are laws in place. There are rules. If you look at the system, there's actually a system in place that is enforcing it and then who is making sure that the enforcer is enforcing it. So it's levels and levels of irresponsibility and in discipline and corruption, that is just... You need to enforce the enforcer to enforce the rule. Absolutely. Yeah. So what is our solution? We know we have to regulate, we know we have to monitor. How? Because me, I'm ready with placard to start somebody. Placards are not ready. I think we need to start. But then, really, I don't know how much that is going to do. No, you see, I start holding accountable. So we need, first of all, there's need to, there's the need for research. What is the person obtained? Who's responsible for what? Then there's no need to ask, where does the box stop? And then when you now start going, okay, say what? Look, you know that in any system in a society, you have the three tiers of government, you have the media, you have civil society. And the reality is that those last two arms, the informal arms of government, the media and civil society are fairly society. Because at the end of the day, you need galvanized movement. Yeah, galvanized movement. If they're going to have kill, so you're going to have riots and then the government comes back again to say, we're keeping the peace. So you're going to have to say, okay, so this is what it is. What are the things that they're supposed to enforce? And how do we ensure that this goes on? Because it has to happen. Do we have to start making demands? We've said that we have to start demanding for accountability, right? I believe in process as well. One is yours. I mean, so that's how it starts. It starts as an echo. But if we know it is a resounding explosion that they can't stop but be accountable to. So I kind of see it three ways. And I think Helen, you kind of touched on these things. One is the actual physical movement, right? Two is that you actually have to come up with sincere regulation. Something that actually works. And I was on a podcast with our fellow advocate, Kunle and Helen a couple of days ago. And Kunle made a great point in that there are laws that exist, but they're so vague. You know, to uphold the rights of a child. What does that mean? What are the human rights? It's so vague that it's just left to a wide amount of interpretation. So we also need the law makers to go back and actually make laws that are enforceable before you can even enforce. Very clear. Yes, Helen, would you want to give a last word before? Yeah. My thoughts really is the fact that how do I put this that it doesn't sound funny? Just say it, go for it. Just say it. Go for it. We really, at this point, really need to have a physical action. You know, we've been having actions against government days. Government didn't do that. Nobody has really come out and stood the ground for education. We need to come out at least maybe go to the governor in a group and let him know that we are tired of our children. When I was in school, if you were in a private school, that means that you were so dull that you could not pass any federal school. That was where we were. Now, private schools, whether you pass or you don't, you're in there. We need to go back. We really need to go back. And my personal opinion is that let us, for the first time ever, come together, march to the government office or minister of education, if not for anything, for the children who have died. For the children who have died and go there and let them know our hearts. And then we leave it like that and then we continue on the Bonson burner and push in like we're doing as it is now. Absolutely, I agree with you. Absolutely, I agree with you. Thank you very much. Good way forward. So we have Elijah up and it's a very, very interesting topic. So please stay with us after the break. Educational and learning environment towards correcting the field system. Educational facilities are supposed to not only equip children in cognitive development but also behavioral development. However, some authorities are filled in their leadership responsibility to inculcate discipline in their words. Given recent e-fated death of Sylvester Oronomi, a plethora of complaints have been filed on social media about the negligence of schools in monitoring the activities of their words and going as far as politicizing their system in favor of the fittest. On the other end of the spectrum, parents are also being blamed for not paying much attention to their children's development process, thereby unleashing both abuse and the victim in an unchecked and unforgiving system. However, these occurrences are avoidable only if some school authorities and parents can form a synergy to put this anomaly in check, to prevent future fatalities through the following. The parents-teacher association is an essential part of the learning process of a child, so it must not be eliminated. Unusual behaviors from students or pupils must be duly reported and addressed. Boding school facilities must be structured with an intent to curb bullying and unacceptable behaviors. There must be school disciplinary and correctional committee for bullies and victims. Parents should not be negligent to their children or world. If these steps are put in place, the school system will be less of a torture zone and more of a learning and development environment. Let's ponder on these words by Katkura, a world-class auto and chief. Bullying is killing our kids. Being different is killing our kids. And the kids who are bullying are dying inside. We have to save our kids whether they are bullied or they are bullying. They are all in pain. Let us save our children from the menace of bullying. Rest in peace, Sylvester Aronomi, and other victims of this evil. I like... I mean, it sounds nice when you say that both children are in pain. Unfortunately, only one set of children are dying. You know, more often than not. So I understand the empathy and the understanding for the child that is bullying the perpetrator. Because most times, like we've said, the environment, like Helen said, has 90% to do with the child's development of formation, character, you know, formation. You understand that. However, we must also understand that more often than not, while that child has issues, is the child that is being bullied that gets the wrong idea of the stick more often than not. That's a child that turns out sometimes a bigger bully because they need to fight back. Sometimes that child that turns up timid for the rest of their lives. Or dead. Or dead in some cases. Well, there's a case of the girl in the U.S. 12-year-old with autism who committed suicide as a result of ongoing bullying. She was being bullied so bad that she took her own life at the age of 12. Imagine that. What about the one that happens on Mounts-Bak in South Africa? Is student killed or safe because of bullying, too? I don't know that you follow that news. That was on Mounts-Bak in South Africa. You see? See, I kind of think that, I mean, yes, I might try to take a slight outlier position. It's really to lose stance as to, yes, the bullied actually suffers some more. And yes, maybe apparently and obviously, the bullied may suffer some more. But then we do need to understand something that in reality, when you start to delve deeper into behavioral patterns and working with children, every action has their psychological undertones to this. So see, a person who is bullied, I'm not saying that, I'm not justifying because truly, I was not exactly a bully. Are you sure? No, I'm not. Are you sure? You look like a bully. I'm not sure. No, I was just one of those very interesting, you know, double personalities. So I was assertive, yet I was also very timid. So I'm timid and I stay in my space, but you push at me, I kind of assert myself. So I feel that we need to realize and deeply focus on the fact that there's a valid set of points that Elijah is raising. The bullied and the bullied. But that brings me to something that somebody said when this conversation was going on. And that in a lot of schools, most schools have just, if you look at it like one counselor. In fact, the guidance and counseling system in school is almost more important. There are no intention. More schools look at, you know, intentionality is the last leg of this conversation, in fact. Most schools focus on teacher certification, education, the principal and things like that. But let's look at a step, let's take it as one step back when he was talking and we're talking. I remember that a lot of our parents, or at least two generations, and the immediate past generation, had parents who, whether or not we look at parents, and we talk about parenting, parenting intentional, parenting is really important. But a lot of people that seem to have turned out, okay, in terms of their built-in life, when the school was really like, you know, when you had people who were in the system and they were so okay, you know what this person is being said to school and this was good enough. So I feel that in this case, when Elijah was talking about, how do you correct a failed system? The system is failed, right? That we're talking about the educational system. And in this situation here, little things that when he spoke about it, what kind of the undergirding of it, that behavior, that was those issues. It's a behavior. Yeah. What is the cause of that behavior? What is the cause of how to deal with it? So we have someone here called Helen, who is an advocate. Helen. And there's something that happens, there's applied behavioral analysis in the special needs, you know, when we're thinking about special needs and you are working on behaviors of children and you try and find the cause of the root behavior, ABA, ABC, you know what happened before that behavior? So you immediately are looking for the root cause, the behavior that happened and then the consequence of that behavior. Now we're dealing with the consequences of all these things and we haven't dealt with the antecedent. What is the root cause? So I think Helen is a really good one to just let's get her opinion on this. Well, I guess now I'm talking from the point of a behavior analyst. So yes, you have the antecedents, you have the behavior, you have the consequence. We are dealing with the consequence. That's what we seem to be doing here, but we need to look at what happened before. But as you guys, as Elijah was talking, I said to myself, we have so many social workers who are redundant. Yes. We have so many counselors who are redundant. Why can't we have a system that every school must have one social worker. Those are the challenges. And one guiding and counselor. And it will be done according to the population of the school. So if your school is, you have 1,000 children in your school, you would have at least two or three to service these children. This is what I feel should be the immediate stop gap, because it's going to take a while for us to get to that point. But as you rightfully said, those disciplines are totally non-existent in most of the schools. Why can't they, why can't we advocate for them to come back? Exactly, absolutely. Well, I'm going to tell you one, Helen. Those that think they are guiding and counselors needed to be guided and counseled. Those that teach needed to be taught. When I was in secondary school, I told you I went to military school. That's why we had the soldiers to instill discipline in us. And sometimes punish us via the normal military means, even lock you up in that room, if need be. We had guided and counselor. Most of the G&C were mostly women, matured women. When I mean mature, I'm not talking of young teachers. I mean women in their 50s. When you meet their mommies, they will sit down with you like my son or my daughter. They will advise you. Now when I got to, when I was in GS3, having passed through some nasty nonsense in school, when I got to SS1, SS2, and eventually I became a prefect, I remember I had meetings with other prefects like myself. We said this is our gym will be different. We're not going to punish junior students. GS1 to GS3, we feel they are too small. We don't punish them. If you do wrong from SS1 to SS3, you'll be punished. So that idea of asking, hey, you come and sweep our class. If any of our classmates does that, we disappear. They don't like us for that. But others said before us, did you die? Why is your own case different? We said, no, us will be different. We like discipline, but not to beat or punish innocent children. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, so I understand that. Because sometimes, again, unless you can empathize with what someone is going through, no matter how many degrees or certifications you have, sometimes it's just education. Sometimes it's just empathy. Being able to understand what this person has been through. I mean, for a long time I was a bully. For natural reasons, I have four older brothers. I was bullied all my life, more or less. But not to, it's the hurtful teasing. Did you say you were? Well, I'm not like all my life. Were? Yeah. Exactly, I'm still bullied by my older brothers. Because they are way older than me. So you get those things, they still bully you. But what it does for you sometimes, it toughens your, but in some other cases, the negative consequences of that. And you have to now personally check yourself and see the tendencies that you have. And then, like you said, go to the root cause and say, where did this thing come from? And then start to address those things. Well, thank you very much everyone. The question of the child rights plagues a lot of Nigerians. And it breaks it down after the break. Okay, so my question today is, does the child have any rights? And obviously it's clear that I have a passion for children in a very funny way that's different from a lot of people here. But I will start with what the UNICEF website has to say. Your child has a right to a safe, nurturing school environment that respects their dignity. I'm particularly talking about the rights of the child today because questions around what child rights have come up a lot. And maybe parents and schools are not even fully aware of the rights that are clearly enunciated that all children have. The Convention on the Rights of the Child states that all children have the right to an education and protection from all forms of physical, or mental violence, injury, or abuse. And interestingly, bullying is no exception. Although designed for the safety and protection of children have to be provided for by adults and the government. Making a clear responsibility lie on the parents' school as well as the government. Although children and young people are covered under the Human Rights Act 1998, their rights are more clearly specified under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, known as UNCRC. Now people usually ask the question, how do those kind of conventions play out in Nigeria? Nigeria has ratified most of this international treaties and once you have ratified the treaty, it's applicable in your country. Although neither specifically mentions bullying, bullying behavior does breach a number of the articles in both. So I'm saying alongside this, both outline the responsibilities of adults to protect and safeguard children and young people from bullying behavior. The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child has 54 articles setting standards in healthcare, education, and legal, civil, and social services which cover four broad areas. And these areas are survival rights, development rights, protection rights, participation rights. And what is a right? A right is simply a basic need. It's not an entitlement or an expectation. It's a basic need that is expected children need to be protected from bullying behavior so that they can survive, so they can develop and participate in a fulfilling life. And therefore, we're declaring today that bullying is a bridge of children's rights. So how do we showcase this? Apart from the other rights stated, we also have survival rights. What are survival rights? That's a right to survive and develop healthily. The impact of bullying behavior must be addressed in a way that meets the needs of those young people affected and involved. And once again, I say that adults share a responsibility to address any behavior that can harm the development of children. We need, what do you need to be happy and healthy? The positive impact of healthy relationships, supportive role models, inclusion, love, and respect, and all these are things that can be undermined by bullying behavior. So what is it that society, we all need to do? And what are we advocating for today? We need to teach our children how to value and promote a healthy sense of respect for themselves and others in order to reduce the risk of bullying behavior. One other right that children also have is development rights. They have the right to relax and play. An excluded child by bullying behavior has a harmful impact on development, on their health and well-being. Once again, as adults, remember that rights of children can only be upheld by adults within them. We are responsible for shaping an inclusive culture where children or children can participate. Bullying and its impact can be detrimental to a child's capacity to learn. And this right also highlights an adult's responsibility to take young people's views into account when making decisions that affect them. A child's right to education can be denied if they refuse to attend or are removed from school because of bullying behavior. Staff and parents have a responsibility to change behavior that is making a child feel unsafe. It's upon us to develop children's talents fully. The impact of bullying or self-esteem and aspirations can prevent young people from reaching their full potential. Children need to be heard and they have a right to be heard. And so it's time today to call on all adults and more especially parents and adults with the duty of custody over children to listen to them and uphold their fundamental rights. And I think that maybe we have found those points and ways that we're going to use for advocacy with the Lagos state government as suggested by Helen and the other advocate here. And we have a point, how many points are agenda to them? We have agenda. What a lecture indeed, what a lecture indeed. So there was something she said that caught my interest. It's not about value system. You know I've said this thing before, enforcing the right values. It's charity begins from the home. The person being bullied most times, no the person bullying, the bully, most times the product of his home. What check out their home? Many of these children, perhaps from broken home or from home where their parents don't pay attention to them or don't show good example or see how their parents talk down on house made or whatever and they grow up with this attitude and when they get to school, if it's okay to inflate plain and look superior to others to them too, it all boils down to values. We have to be careful about what we do around our children. Yes, why I agree with that and I think it's really true. I still think that there's a part that is usually under emphasized. The fact that when you talk to people over time, people always say they feel unheard. People really don't. So when we're growing up, it was constant children are seen and not heard. And so when people say when the kind of classifications you put about how people that turn out to be bullies. Some of the people that are bullies that were bullied us or grew up in regular good homes, sometimes not knowing or knowing how to behave, not knowing social skills because some people don't even realize that I'm bullying you, you just feel that like there was an advocate dimension that I said, but it was Helen that said, some parents see that as a child studying up for himself. And that's what we mean. The education, the orientation is deep, really. And I'm glad that the behavioral, at least the behavior is important, it's deep. So the thing about rights that you've said, what caught my attention is the fact that if Nigeria has ratified these rights, then why aren't we enforcing them? So the fact that policemen can go into a school and with live ammunition and just start shooting students. Yeah. I mean, that's all we need to say. Apparently rights are trampled on on this part of the world. So at some point, we need to be start advocating for people's rights to be of help. She said, because if you just go by just the rights that people, humans have, that alone would set a lot of boundaries and a lot of standards in place. All right, Helen, I'm sure. I would just bring it to your notice that, do you know that there is actually a psychometric test that is used in the UK currently to determine the bully and the bully are? I'll ask you. Please, we need it. Yes. I like to see the link. But remember, I remember when I was trying to, there's a particular school in GRE that is quite known for the students being bullies. And they called me in. I spoke to the council and said, look, you know what? We can solve this problem. We can just administer this particular test. Oh, yes, great. Wow, ooh, ooh, ooh. And within the next, you know, the next time, oh, we don't think we should administer it. It's very sensitive at the moment, blah, blah, blah, and this and that. So that died. And it died because the parents were not ready to accept. If the results came out, if my child is the bully here, how am I going to take it? So we're not looking at it from the point of, this can help your system. And you know, the problem is that, I'm not saying that schools are not doing the right thing. Some of them are really doing wonderful things. Sometimes it's actually the parents that make a lot of these schools do what they do. Absolutely. I know that some schools, they want the best for the children, they do health checks, they do this. These are the same parents in their school that will go and petition them for doing the right thing for their children. So I know that this whole semester thing has become a very, very big issue. But what I also don't want us to do is, I don't want us to lump all the schools in the same category that we're lumping during college because there are some schools that are actually doing it love. Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely, I agree with you. You know, I think there's something that we can do in terms of, you know, when we're petitioning, when we're going forward, it has to take parents' involvement, school involvement, government involvement. But Heaven's hit something where if we can identify the schools that are doing it right, we can learn from how they're doing it right and apply it on a wider, yeah, across board. So if there are people already in this space doing it right, then let's learn from them. Yeah, which is what, you know, I was going to say about Helen that, you know, it's that thing you say about, he'll pay you the pipe and it takes the tune. So until schools are ready to say, no, we do not accept this kind of behavior, please take your children away. Exactly. Until schools are able to make that stand. That's it. This thing will not stop. That's it. You know, the educational system will be beyond the school fees. Yes. And say that this is ours. That's it, yes. And they are prone to re-enter. No, so you see, all these are not going to change if the educational system, the owners of the system, say no. Yes. And that also now brings to the father, okay, how do you actually diversify your offerings and touch it with that? Parents will hold you to rise up. Yes. Yes, absolutely. How do you push the educational system? Anyway, Terlu wraps the conversation up after the break. Charity begins at home. Justice begins next door. Charity has left the home. She left the home when she decided that the critical task of raising your child to be a decent human is someone who has his responsibility. Charity has left the home because we are now raising children without discipline, without instruction, without direction, without boundaries, and ultimately without the conscience. Charity left the home the day you chose that meeting, that appointment, that event, that friend, that similar or gendered line over your child. And on that day, you excused bad behavior for, oh, he's just a child. Oh yes, he is a child. And yes, badly behaved children become badly behaved adults. Badly behaved parents. Listen, badly behaved children, more often than not, are the ones who become criminals, drug addicts, rapists and murderers. So think about it next time you make an excuse for that child and say, oh, he's just a child. Child on child crime and abuse has carried on over the past 20 years to as much as half the percentage of adult crime. Let me put that in context for you. For every two adults and there's a criminal, there is one juvenile child. I should add where that statistic will be in another 20 years if we do not take drastic actions starting today. As you hear my parents' words as early as I remember saying, remember the son of whom you are. That phrase as simple as it was carried weight, carried weight because they were not just referring to themselves as parents. By saying those words, they were opening a whole set of instruction, discipline, direction and yes, home training. I mean, it's called home training for a reason. Many parents today look at their children in the eye. Many, sorry, let me say that again. Many parents today cannot look at their children in the eye and say, remember the child of whom you are because there is nothing to remember. They haven't done the hard work. Many children today are bad boys and bad girls and are celebrated for it. We must start to reprogram our kids to respect plain old decency in a world where good, bad, moral and immoral have been heavily subjectivised. Without taking responsibility away from schools, the task of raising a decent human is the primary responsibility of the parent. I repeat, the critical task of raising a decent and responsible human is the primary responsibility of the parent because if you don't raise your children right, somebody else will. In some cases, that's awarding in prison facility or other inmates. Social security is what I advocate for. Criminal legions must be truly criminalised. Parents must be held fully responsible for neglecting their roles and let's bring charity back home. At that point, just drop the mic and walk. Hi, hi, hi. I mean, I don't know. I really think that what you have said is so true. You've hit the nail on the head. And the question that comes to mind immediately is where did we get it wrong? What is happening in the home? Where did it all go wrong? At what point? Yes, and I really think that maybe when we look at it, when you see the situation, is when they crush the desire for the final things of life and how I don't want my children to suffer the way I suffered and how I want to give them a good life, all that stuff becoming the norm. But because when you talk to some parents and you're trying to tell them that, oh, this doesn't make sense or this shouldn't have done it, look at you like, what are you talking about? I mean, there was a time when I was in love etiquette classes and at some point, every time we almost got that sense of, oh, really? Hey, do they really need it? Well, maybe they need to learn how to use their fork and knife and I'm thinking, do you think that etiquette about fork and knife alone really was about behavior or social skills? And so do we, the parents don't think it's that important? So let me tell you something. So I left Nigeria at six years old. I went to boarding school at the age of six to the age of 18. My parents never relocated, they were here. I can tell you every day of boarding school my father was in my head. He had done that walk at six years old. At six years old. To this day, the man is still inside my head. So it's really important in those initial, we call it the early intervention years in the special needs community, those first six years, especially those first two to three, that you really impress the values on children because that is the time the brain is the most spongious to understand, to absorb and to be able to become part of their DNA. So it's really, really important that parents clue into this. You cannot leave your child for the nanny. Yes, absolutely right. What I'm going to say is I was just thinking about something. You call the rema, it came to my mind. There are two things here. Parents should think about the future of their children. What kind of child do you want? What kind of adult do you want to try to grow into? If you go to America, George Bush, George H.W. Bush, Bethe, George W. Bush, do you know the amount of work he impacted in the life of his children that he had one of his son, a governor and a president, another one a governor, right? Senator. Do you think it was just because he was a president? That's why he became president? No, that was intentional parenting. And then the other aspect from, away from parenting, the school, those that go into education and want to be a teacher, many at times they don't go for the glory of teaching and impacting life. They go because, oh, that's the work I'm doing. I just want to do it. I don't care. I want to just collect my money and leave. Please, we need Helen to talk. You hit an issue. And I know Helen was sitting there wanting to say something, particularly on this point. Helen, yes. In fact, I think I love all of you. That's what I'm saying. Because we love you too. You're all speaking my language. I think it's really, really, really, I'm always one for charity begins at home. And I concur with Tonya because I also went to school in the UK. And every time I wanted to make a wrong move, I would just remember my father. My father would tell me that he would kill me first before I would disgrace his family. That was his words. Do you understand? So I sit down in my quiet moment and I'm thinking, the parents of these young boys who have now been identified as the suspects of killing this young man, what would those parents be going through? You see, it's a tragedy all around. It's a tragedy all around. And I'm very, very sure that if you look at it holistically, we have to mourn for both parties. Sylvester's parents have lost a child and five to six other parents are more or less going to lose their children as well. But Tolu hit on something towards the end of his intro, which kind of hinted at, do you prosecute the parents? I kind of got that thing in terms of the ramifications for the parents. Social security abroad. I mean, if you're badly behaved parents, they take your children from you. In Nigeria, that might be a bit of a relief for them. You know, just take them. We should probably have those kind of things in place. So I think it's a good time to have a moment of silence for the daily part of children over the last couple of years or whenever that's having victims of bullying or physical abuse. I mean, their souls rest in perfect peace. Amen. Well, time is never a friend on this program. However, the Advocacy Continues on our social media platforms on Facebook, Plus TV Africa, hashtag The Advocate NG, and on Instagram at Plus TV Africa, hashtag The Advocate NG. To catch up with previous broadcasts, go to plustvafrica.com slash The Advocate NG. Don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel, Plus TV Africa. Like Catherine Jenkins said, children should be able to live a life free from bullying and harassment. And it's time that we all took a stand against this. Till next week, same time, on this same station. Let's keep advocating for a better society. Bye.