 enough space to accommodate accessible entrances that are covered and stairways that are covered. Part of the issue that becomes with this as well as the zoning on the property is a suburban office zoning currently right now and it has some different restrictions in comparison to a residential zoning. So overall as Steve had stated we are looking for a multiple amount of variances as notated in our application from building coverage ratio, side yard setbacks, street yard setback, and minimum paved surface setback in dwelling unit separation, off-street parking spaces required within this zoning instance, and minimum eave width. Starting out the building coverage ratio we're requesting an allowance of 0.51 versus 0.5 again just due to the nature of what we're trying to provide with our plan that it limits us a little bit just because of the size and the nature of the existing sites. Front yard setback we're requesting a one foot five building setback in along the front panav side which is consistent amongst the existing structure right now. This is allowing for a double decker porch to be added on to the front as far as a means of egress and also from a convenience to each tenant. Side yard setback we're requesting a four foot eight variance building setback along the west property and a one foot nine building setback along the east property. Again this is allowing for additional covered entrance ways and access not encroaching any further than current standards on that property. Paving setback with the addition of the additional garage we're requesting to get the paving closer to the lot line which gets closer than the required setback within within the zoning standard. And then same with the rear yard setback we're requesting a 24 foot four inch building setback along the alleyway side. Off-street parking we have about two and a half spaces for off-street parking as well as two vehicle spaces within. For the zoning I believe it's three parking spaces per unit as what's requested with that. And then minimum eave width we're requesting a 10 inch eave width that's just being consistent with existing building and existing structure. I think that outlines it all. Steve do you have any comments? Yeah I think a couple of things to add. We did receive two letters from the owner of let's see 502 Pennsylvania Avenue which is the property owner to the east I believe and then 510 Pennsylvania Avenue which is the property to the west both in support of the proposal. I think a couple of the comments that I would say is as Mr. Presky mentioned there the property has a zoning designation of suburban office so that's part of the reason why they're here today but as you can see from the drawings you have before you the maps all the residences you know basically by the county courthouse along Pennsylvania Avenue our duplexes and single families. We have a gentleman I'm assuming you must have just recently purchased the property or have you had this for some time? Yeah I purchased it in October. And there must be a reason for that. Well again I live across the street I was looking at rejuvenating it I've got a couple people my sister my sister-in-law and someone else who would like to live there so I thought I'd refurbish it into a two-family you know simply because of the location. Yeah and so you know when you take a look at some of the properties over there these are all fairly tight lots they're put in there together you can see how the front lot line has an angle over there so you can see some of the need for the variances to the front yard setback not really I mean they're increasing the footprint but that's to add a garage presently there's nothing there there's a number of the other adjacent properties next to this that do have garages on the alley it's a significant you know improvement to the property you can see some of the pictures on the screen what's what you have there now and you know the shape it's in and the fact that we have someone who is taking a property on Pennsylvania Avenue which is one of the most heavily traveled corridors to the lakefront and looking to improve it and and have some vision and see what it could be yes there's quite a bit of variances but this is a very positive project and staff was recommending it. Pat do you have anything to say? I believe there was a neighbor I didn't know if there was anything that you wanted to add or I just want to say I totally support his idea and his vision I think it'll be a 98% improvement but my only question is there is a sidewalk between both our properties. Which property are you sir? 502 Pennsylvania Avenue that's to the east east okay I was just curious about like the sidewalk I know we discussed it but I just you know it who's responsible for that or if that you know I wasn't sure yeah what apparently I'd have to get an easement from him I don't have a problem yeah yeah we'll have a lawyer drop an easement for sure the sidewalk that is partially on your property yeah I didn't even realize that I've been there I've been there almost 30 years so I wasn't sure yeah it was brought out when we did the survey. Are you two gentlemen getting free passes for a trip to Mexico or something? I hope so. I'm taking a look at the the survey on the screen and it's the one on the east side over here is this so so that sidewalk is your property yeah but I like said I didn't know if I if I own it or you know yeah yeah so yes sure oops I'm sorry I'm on the wrong one I'm looking my fault thanks so just so that would be this area right correct right to clarify currently right now the the existing sidewalk is on the neighboring parcel so it's kind of an existing non-conforming element to it so what I've suggested is to get an easement to legally make that proper of what it is and who maintains it and in so on for maintenance okay that answer your question Dennis yeah yes and then like one more question to I know I should do this on the phone but like I'm considering a deck on the opposite side of my garage but I don't have a variance yet for it what's the yardage you have to be off the property line for a structure what for this city I think what we can do on that is probably you could either give myself or the inspector a call probably have and I don't mean to you know but maybe we could have that conversation and then we can talk a little bit more because it may have to go through a similar process like we're talking now everybody done talking Pat the gears laid up I pressed the button and it should turn red that easement has to be in place because that's a service walk so just keep that in mind and to the neighbor I'm Pat Eric I'm the building inspector give him feel free to give me a call and I can give you that information okay have you heard that I'll call the question we have a motion on the floor to approve it all the favor say aye opposed carried thank you you got yourself a deal thank you next up the bat is Chad war no no I'm sorry so what we're gonna be taking a look at here is a mr. Jack West falls requesting construct a deck in a front front and street yards at 1034 bluff Avenue this is a deck that started construction without permits and he's here to discuss the possibility of receiving a variance to allow him to continue to construct hello hi I'm Jack West fall I want to first of all apologize for that permit issue and just as a background or context on Monday of that week I called for an appointment for surgery and they said as soon as they received the pathology report they'd schedule it well I gotta call the next day on Tuesday and they scheduled it for Thursday morning it was a four-hour surgery and you know I was just a little bit out of it and that was the week I was supposed to apply for the billing permit so it's not an excuse but I just wanted to provide some context that I wasn't you know trying to get away with anything and in that respect this is Brian the carpenter and he put up his his sign so we weren't trying to hide anything it just as I said it just got caught up at any rate the property is at 1034 bluff that's for my taxes and water and everything else that's the address so the front of the house I understand is 1034 and then it has you know two side yards in the backyard now the side yards it's five feet off the neighbor on one side and some 16 18 feet on this side and the tenants downstairs tenant has a small girl and he wanted you know just some privacy for them to be outside and being that the side of the house is kind of on the street and you know just just no privacy and you know so that's awkward yes so we designed this to you go out the front door and then around to a side and that's gonna be a porch it's not really a deck it's gonna have a 42 inch high handrail all the way around it you can only access it from the front door so it's not really like a deck there'll be no no other access to it other than from the front door and you know the plan was you know have some private space because other than that there's no private space on that lot that's a question so when you talk when you say privacy is the deck just speak gonna be a deck with rails or are you screening something off what we don't have a sense in terms of what the deck itself you know so whether it's you or your contractor someone needs to you know when you're talking privacy a lot of times people are putting up a fence and screening things off so what is your definition of privacy well it'll be a 42 inch high handrail with two by two spindles every four inches okay so it's more it's not necessarily privacy it's no want to space the hang out on I mean it's yeah that's what a decksboard and private so well semi-private it's not it's not on the street let's say out on the grass yeah and you know he can leave his daughter out there and stuff like that so so the issue before the board is just like a lot of our fences and things like that there's stuff that we have as far as setbacks along fronts and street yards typically 15 feet for uncovered 25 for the house a lot of times we talk about design in the front yards this looks like it's going to be strictly wood treated wood are the rails or anything any type of color to match the building what no well stained what are we talking about doing well you have to leave it for a year before you can paint it but yeah we would be painting a thin white to match the house but you have to let it age for a year yep no no it would just be a typical typical deck design that's correct that typically you wouldn't be allowed to do this you know if you take a look at some of the maps or the pictures I have you know there are some homes in that area that do have some stoops that encroach from the house a little bit and so when you take a look at the deck it kind of lines up with some of those things but you know again what it comes down to you know when we're taking a look at these things is what's it gonna look like are we just gonna have a treated deck that's just jammed out in the front yard that looks so so but allows them to do what they want but with everyone passing by it and looking at it is it a decent looking deck and so whether it's you know wood rails you know different materials those would be the types of things that the board should consider looks like contract or maybe as innocent yeah go ahead I'm Brian from B&I Builders I understand under ordinary circumstances that the responsibility for the permit the submitting the design the variance all that falls on me however I know Jack personally I've worked on his other properties and this is something that he didn't have to do so he takes care of his properties he goes above and beyond I think in this case like he said he's gonna let it weather for a year maybe 18 months and paint it up so it'll be tastefully done I also hope you'll consider the fact that it is set back I don't have the measurements in front of me but I believe we're about seven feet off the edge of the sidewalk is it okay not only that it's a corner lot as well so yeah not much with respect to the rest of the yard in the back with those measurements you know you got to make sure they're right because if they're not you're coming back so he doesn't have a survey with a plot plan no he's got a couple of sketches and I don't know exactly how they came up with the measurements well just I know I know the one side yard is five feet to the east and I wasn't aware of a alternate setback for a side yard so yeah this is the trouble we get into when people don't call ahead of time but um Pat I don't know if you had anything well the only that we would not be here tonight had the contractor follow the rules and apply for a permit with building inspection first of all whether he is licensed in the city and the location of the deck it would have been denied at that time we would not be here so now it's kind of asking for forgiveness I guess if if this was done the proper way and went through the right channels would this have gone through as far as the staff is concerned I'll answer quick and then Pat you can it would have been denied and they would have probably had to come and do what they're doing at this point in time okay yeah that's correct about the permit process if I could like I said ordinarily obviously we all know it falls on the contractor however like I said I know Jack personally I'm actually from Green Bay so if he tells me he's going to secure the permits and submit the drawings I trust him to do that that week he had a procedure done on his eye I believe the material showed up prior to us starting and there was some spindles missing and a few other things so I kind of ran him around for that but if you know if he tells me you get to permit I don't question Jack like I said he did have a few things going on health wise and material delivery things of that nature that week so are you a licensed contractor I am yes and you in Green Bay I'm sure you when you're gonna do something like this you gotta have a billing permit to start all correct right and and usually they ask to submit a drawing like like you stated and and go from there what's your idea how far you set back from different places have different rules some people say you have to be so far from the center of the road other guys say you have to be so far from the curve so obviously I would have got all that information if I would have pulled to commit just out of convenience sake I said Jack up to do it and I just assumed that if you guys needed any of my information or credentials that you'd ask for it there so we just went ahead and started and I guess I didn't question them so it kind of blame falls on both of us I guess but I'll entertain abortion from the floor well if I can I can ask another question normally under these circumstances we don't have any kind of a survey so we don't know what we're what the measurements are how close for the lot lines and all that stuff officially I mean we have we're just kind of hearing rough guesstimates normally under these circumstances before we allow anything you really move forward as we typically want to get at least an official survey right so we know exactly what we're like a building permit which would have a survey is well I I don't know I mean it doesn't look like it was one question I can answer yeah I mean typically the answer is yes sometimes what we've done is to indicate to the applicants hey you guys need to know what you're coming in because the board could if they approve it require a survey to make sure that these measurements are indeed what they are so say for example they got denied they wouldn't have to be expense of having to go through a survey but the board could say hey if we're considering this you will submit a survey to verify that those what you're showing us is correct and then that permit could be issued so that could always be a condition of approval if that was something that we were looking at I mean I think I kind of like that idea because right now it doesn't look like it's it's to me it doesn't look like it's going to be a terrible project you know when it's all done especially if it's going to kind of match in and blending with the with the property but I think we kind of do need a an actual survey to make a conditional just to stay consistent with all this other stuff that you know all the other projects we approve or deny or something like that we just I think we should start there and make that as a conditional so what you're seeing is we could make a motion approving it subject to them getting a billing permit does that work sir and that would include the survey or I could make it we can make it conditional upon approval to have a survey that's correct because then if it doesn't meet it and it's short and it's not meeting it then it they wouldn't be able to get the board the variants or else they would have to come back the other thing I think that the board may want to consider is they talk about the green treated you know is everyone okay with the the treated wood it do you want to see it stained do you want you know you know that that white is pretty striking with the house and and to just have a green treated deck you know to go along with it you know that's something else to consider as well question owner has a go for what would you rather see us put siding on it like on the house so it matches the house exactly no no okay that won't that won't be very appealing at all I mean if you wanted to do some you know nice rails or spindles or something to that effect that that would look better than just having additional siding there's a lot of siding when you look at the building already all it is is white siding so I mean even if this was stained and had some you know decent design to it in terms of the rail or spindles or something to that effect it certainly would add something so I don't know if that's what you know the board wants to consider okay if if approving it you know that would certainly be the survey and and you know design would be some elements that should be incorporated in any type of approval if the board chooses that if they don't deny it well I mean we can certainly paint it this year it's just they recommend with 3d with it you wait you know a year and 18 months or your paint's gonna peel right off so that that's why we're gonna wait our problem is that we start doing this all of a sudden the next door neighbor wants to move it within two feet at sidewalk in front and what he is we're gonna stop this you know yeah just never to press the button that just a couple of questions do you have your state qualifier and your cq from the state okay second thing is in lieu of a survey we also are able to contact the engineering department and they'll give us what the setback is from center of road and then you would come up with a drawing not a sketch showing everything in scale drawing that's something else the board can think about as well I'm just throwing it out there and then to the board again third thing is that again no permit was issued so there was no plans to meet the deck code and I think I had a couple of issues when I went out there as far as joy spans so if you approve this tonight I don't know what you're gonna do and he has to tear half that deck apart am I gonna allow him to put it back again that's the question I have I can the answer that would be they would need to get a plan that meets code and if it if they don't get you a plan that meets code if the deck's not meeting code they need to do whatever is necessary to meet that building code that's what I'm saying so if they would have to tear part of the deck apart to meet the code yes can you put it back where you guys approved it or do we got an issue again hang on a second time well could you ask that one more time so if it's granted where the deck is right now and he has to tear that deck apart to re to make it meet code is that a new deck again and is he gonna have to come back again I think there's a couple of things on this I just want to make sure before I and we can talk more about that but first of all you know again if this is being proved I think a survey is a smart thing to do because we don't even know what we're measuring this up to second of all if it's approved they should get you plans that you know show how they're meeting requirements and if that requires them to remove things it requires them to remove things good and then they would get the permit as they should have in that first place if we go that route right route would you get a comment do we have the option of tabling this and let the issues get resolved before it comes before us so we're not layering on so many so in other words the next time it comes before us we have a billing permit in front of us well it's something that's more understandable but also you tack on so many amendments then who follows up on the amendments it would be a lot cleaner just to come in with an appropriately presented presentation good point tabling is always something that we can do obviously the questions that are posed here are you know I don't know if in the meantime they could get a drawing that specifies what it is get the building permits in the pat and get some type of design so we know exactly what we're looking at and and we've done that in the past and if the board feels comfortable instead of denying it to give the applicant an opportunity to get that in here to reconsider that that's certainly an avenue the board can take every said that and having heard that make a motion to table this for future discussion future submission or a second to that he's made the motion to table it there's a second I'll call the question is it all in favor say aye would would I be able to get on next months then as long as you move fairly quickly in terms of your drawings and getting everything in yes so you just want to stay in contact with Pat and I and make sure we get all that so if there's any questions but yeah we could get you back on next week depending on how quickly you can get things in or I'm sorry next month how quickly you can get it in yeah so just stay in contact with us comfortable you know that's your middle name is right Gonzalez I mean if I have to get a survey I don't know if I can do that they're pretty busy yeah so we can talk about that contractor gets up and together get some plans as well as something that shows us from a design hey here's what we're thinking yeah okay sounds good all in favor say aye about tabling it opposed scary okay you understand what the table means yes please do yes well somebody's gonna have to submit the plans to me to meet the deck code to meet the appendix B of the UDC code okay yeah we can do it but you mentioned some of you are getting drawings from engineering you can't do that you need a certified survey okay we'll get a rush on that good luck Chad you're up to bat what we're taking a look here is a very a variance application by Jed more requesting to add the width of the driveway at 2507 North 38th Street is he are you talking about my name the approach there too excuse me I didn't hear you because I noticed there's no curb there anything it's all black well the unique thing about this property that most of the properties down 38th are town not city I believe there's two or three of the properties that are actually city properties and not town so there is no curbs or sidewalks or overnight parking on the road the reason why I'm filing for it is because if you noticed on the drawing here where the slant is where you got your cursor that's the third car garage so if I actually park and you we got three rows three cars going in straight if you're ready to pull into the third car garage you won't be able to even make the turn while staying on the concrete you'd have to drive straight into the lawn in order to get there you see if you pull go down a little bit sorry are you only doing a triangle in cement or you take you on with the approach to the approach as well where you see the dotted lines on my diagram there it's the dotted line there if you bring it down not that one yep that one right there okay that's the existing conditions right now what is it what you see right there and outlined in the red is the existing okay that's all the existing concrete in front of the garage those two car garage and the one car garage the one with the dotted lines yes that's gravel approach which is kind of a nuisance at 16 feet from the existence and then the block to the right right there that's all grass leads to the third car garage so you can see your bottlenecked in to even get to each garage door slot if I'm parked in front of garage one and two you're not going on three you'll drive to drive right through the grass so what you want to concrete as I understand it is make a straight line to the end of the concrete now correct up to the lot line you are up to your existing concrete now it's going in that third well from north to south I'd like to keep the same with gravel yeah and what I would like to do is keep the same width which is I have a survey attached on there the existing concrete now at the house is 34 foot 7 inches now if you look see where it's bottled neck down it reduces down to like 22 feet and I know that the city had spoke to a nice gentleman here in regards to that and I was told 25 feet that's what led me here today to get the variance so the proposed new concrete would be the part to the west all of it the approach to continue what should have been done in the first place rather than gravel in my opinion and then also that the triangle piece so it would be 16 feet out further to get the approach correct and then keep the same width at 34 foot 7 out to the approach all the way to the road that way we can park in our driveway not be on the street worry about moving our vehicles off of the city street or town street however you want to look at it and park in the driveway otherwise what we're doing is rotating vehicles all the time or we're parking in the lawn or we're driving through our lawn to get to the third garage garage and it tears up the lawn which creates an eyesore can make a few comments I think if you take a look at the picture that I gave to you guys kind of see the neighborhood yeah existing situation I don't know if you want to take this I don't have it on the screen but this is what I gave to them to take a look at that gives a good picture but I think what you what you have over here is you have a town road it's got no curb gutter sidewalk some of the properties are in the town some of the properties are in the city there are others in that same block that have done similar things to what Chad Moore is requesting so from a staff perspective there were no objections to the request no just remember you are in the city so I need a permit absolutely thank you you got it and I'm a licensed contractor I know the rules good no I don't have any issues with it either as I told you some last night I was glad he told you the correct measurements when you went there yesterday regarding replacing where the gravel is do you have a drainage culvert there to be concerned about I'm sure you're concerned if you do but there is no drainage culvert in the existing condition that is now whether I'm required to have one or not I don't know so that would be something that would be I would be looking at answers from you guys I guess for yeah I don't we don't have a problem with water drainage now I don't think we're gonna change the elevation of the land too much maybe on that one corner where you see but I think there's enough green space to absorb it now you know I I'm not real sure about that so one of the things we can do too is get engineering to maybe take a look at that I don't know a pad if you had anything you are a city lot you are a town road you need to go to the town to figure out how wide you can make that access approach from the street we don't deal with that so if the town gives you permission to widen that at the road that far you can do it you need to check with the town okay I got my hand slapped for that so we're because you're in the city we're just telling you yes you can do this but town for the curve you whether it's curve or not it doesn't matter it's an approach from the street okay they're gonna tell you if you can or cannot do that okay don't forget that yeah and I'll and I'll I'll see what the town says about that now when I do approach the town for that I guess I'm I'm actually looking for direction too because I do know I don't want this to come across the wrong way but I do know in my city tax dollars to go to the city and that's why I'm before this board to see what direction I need to go so now I got to go to the town and ask them for permission to do to but I mean I mean that all respect let's let's work on this and then you and I can speak see whether or not we get an engineering in there we can get some information back to you in terms of if there's the need to go to the town or not so okay let's maybe take some action one way or the other on this and if it gets approved then you and I can speak and see who else we can speak to fair enough I'll entertain a motion Kevin what what is your motion to prove what I would I would strictly recommend approving or denying the request as presented okay seconded any other discussion call the question we'll vote on it all favor approving it as proposed I guess it's approved thank you guys good luck there Chad and I will talk to town next up the bat mr. Pelican we tomorrow good afternoon just out of curiosity there was a fellow by the name of Pelican that was a reporter I think for the press or something was that is not my side of the family the rest of mine comes more from Canada so I'm more of an implant we're looking to extend our driveway out in front of the house we have a 1957 original or the second owners our issue is with our driveway every time we get out of our vehicle because of the lot line we are walking on to the neighbor's yard that's a landscaping one so the wife's vehicle is also nine feet wide which is the length of our driveway I have submitted pictures too of showing that when the vehicles in and in the winter if you do just our driveway we are literally jumping into the snowbank so each year I'm really snow blowing the neighbor's yard if we go past the house we do have a privacy fence from the neighbor right on the lot line and the you will see a picture with the vehicle that limits that's the front so when we are parked right in the middle if you jump off you are with two kids we are always on the neighbor's yard which is some of an irritants for him and his perfect yard we would like to extend about if you look at the back of the house where the truck is the that straight but you can't use the other doors because we are right up against his privacy fence we have tried to turn the vehicles to make up where we could turn around I did it with my car once and got stuck and spent 45 minutes trying to get my car back into their driveway so I submitted the contractors plan to extend it on the front so we can pull both vehicles in to also use it that when we get in and out of our vehicle we are not walking onto the grass I do want to maintain that integrity of the 1950s house we also right on the bottom where you kind of see the curb come up that's where our 9-4 ash tree was our 4-foot wide ash tree with a specific removed last year that stump is coming up and pushing up out of the ground so when we would do the driveway we would also have to remove the stump that's underneath the grass the roots in that are certain to come up this year and push up the sidewalk and the curb through that area which there is also broken parts of the curbs so we will be doing 25 feet I draw off memory 22 feet of sidewalk and 25 feet of city curb we would replace to make it all new also guess my pictures I tried to show how the curb is coming up I believe someone walked yesterday with my wife Elizabeth and she was able to show so the end result is to make sure that it looks like it's always been there and that it's not a just added on afterthought that's why we would remove that front sidewalk that would give us 923 square feet of just grass I want to keep integrity of the house and the neighborhood just to make it look like it's always been there but at the same point have a driveway where we can actually get in and out of our vehicles without walking on the neighbors yard we hope he never puts up a rope fence or anything because then our driveway would be useless on the one side questions just to clarify my thinking what you're proposing is putting concrete in front of your front window they're all the way up to the existing sidewalk that's going through the house right now the handicap ramp we were extending the driveway in the front out another so you're going to widen the approach also yes we were why if you want to widen that so you when you're pulling in you don't have your vehicle turned that it always looks like it's not an added afterthought I during looking around I've not seen a pad where you pull off that ever looks like it was meant to be there they always look like you were being cheap and you tried to add it on I wanted to look like when you come up that it was originally thought that way I am open for other ideas I am flexible but ultimately I was hoping to like I said make a driveway more useful but yet also keep the integrity that's one of the reasons we would remove that front sidewalk to give us more green space sure sure this is something that the and both Pat and I have spoken to Mr. Peliquin about this particular project and that it was a tough one to present to the board this is something that the board has denied in the past as far as putting parking spaces directly in front of the homes itself we do have an ordinance it obviously in Mr. Peliquin's position he doesn't have the room to go to further to the south but one of the things that we've tried not to have is parking spaces right in front of the homes and if you take a look at you know some of the photos that I provided to you and you take a look at the homes and the rest of the block there's no one in this whole area that has any type of additional parking that's directly in front of their home so from a staff perspective we would not be recommending approval of the variance request that you have before you this board has been together for a while and I think you'll remember we had one on north 40th was the same thing you want to put a cement slab in its front lawn and you remember what we did with that one so during that take a motion somebody anybody else who wants to speak on us you will make a motion all right I'll make a motion to disapprove it deny every second yes it's been motion made a second is there any other discussion and I'll call a question all in favor of denying it say aye opposed I'm sorry mr. Peliquin thank you for your time thank you are there anything else to be brought before the board today I think the only thing I would mention is that we can work with the deck we appreciate your comments and we'll try to get some more information back to you to make a decision with regards to that matter any other business we brought before the board no hearing none I'll take a motion to do all in favor of adjourning opposed we're adjourned thanks for coming thanks everybody