 So, Neelam talked about policy, I will talk about governance, the challenges of governance and this is basically a challenge of centralized imagination of policy and what are the, what are those challenges and you know how can we overcome it. So, our understanding is that you know this centralized governance actually poses problems. So, we have some case studies with illustrate that those governance in practice and then kind of come to our understanding you know how participate the governance can actually overcome it. So, this is the structural representation, we will talk about the present governance structure, the present funding of sanitation, how it encourages centralized imagination. Then the limitations of governance we will illustrate through two case studies and then we will tell you talk about you know how our alternate paradigm can work. So, this is the kind of you know policy and governance architecture of intense sanitation sector. So, one is you know we have the ministry of urban housing and poverty alleviation. So, that is more of the kind of slum development you know marginalized sections you know. So, they deal with that and then we have ministry of urban development which the node agency of urban development where they kind of take up big infrastructure projects funding of that J N N U R of like you know big infrastructure projects that is the second one. And the third one is ministry of environment and forest and climate change which actually looks at a entirely different thing of environmental regulations environmental protection, but they have a huge influence in sanitation sector because they are against you know kind of influence coming into the water bodies and things like that. So, they also have a major influence in urban development. So, these are the three major ministries that we have let us see what is under them. So, under these two we have this state slum development goal we have meditation boards projects concerning poor and slums that comes under M O U H P A A and then M O U D has state boards like the Kerala water authority or the Bangalore water and sewerage board you know. So, then those come under here and then the public works department sometimes kind of work with them and the big projects. So, it is basically implementation of big water supply and sewerage projects are coming under them. And then when you come here there is a central pollution control board which is supposed to be the kind of you know central agency for pollution control and under them there are state pollution control boards as Neelam was mentioning they are they have you know kind of mandate, but we see that you know they are with toothless also. So, we will understand why it is. So, one of the things that we saw is that you know it is their imagination is pollution controlled by policing you know can we go and kind of you know issue orders and you know and we had a case study of the LAP office they have four engineers environmental engineers and then they have to kind of regulate something like 1000 units like from a floor mill to big industries you know. So, what they do is that you know every I think every two years or so they have to renew their license. How can anybody kind of you know go and physically inspect 1000 units and do that you know. So, they have to kind of issue those licenses otherwise added to that then this house boards also which are also regulated by them. So, it is a you know. So, it is very difficult for them to police and do that and that is why we we we talk about participate in the governance where social regulation can also come. How can citizens kind of participate in analyzing what is pollution in kind of you know helping them to kind of generate data and helping them regulate that also you know. So, that is why this shift has to come. Another major thing that happened in the 90s is the constitutional amendment for decentralization. They have heard about panchayat rajin nagar palika according to 74th amendment of the constitution many of the powers have come to urban local body. So, that is the major shift that has happened here, but the problem is that you know they do not have capacity and in a state like Kerala you know in 1996 almost 40 percent of the budget was transferred to this three entire institutions and nagar palika institutions which now reduced to 28 percent or so because of the centralization that is happening. But in other states we do not know how much of that has happened and despite this no devolution of staff has happened to ULPs. So, we have this big water boards like Kerala water authority or Bangalore water and sewerage board which have a lot of engineers you know like we have some like 5000 engineers now, but if you go to a municipality there will be a few engineers. So, that devolution will not happen because it is a it is a crime to be you know kind of engineer of Kerala water authority or PWD and not a municipality or panchayat. So, people actually will not go there to kind of work there because you have big infrastructure we are doing in the other one and you know. So, devolution becomes a major problem. So, these institutions are completely underserved and undercapacitated I think that is one of the major problem and that is one of the things that we are trying to fill in also can be crowdsourced capacity is the question that we are asking in this project also. There are fragmented institutions if you come to Kerala the sewerage projects are done by Kerala water authority and sometimes it is done by municipalities also they are under the capacity. So, it will go to that I will tell you you know what is the kind of fragmentation that is happening. Then we have two missions one is Sujutta mission and then that the other one is that is clean Kerala mission the other one is higher than the mission that is green Kerala mission which is actually done by this government. So, these four structures actually work in sanitation. So, as Neelam was mentioning the national urban sanitation policy wanted one institutional home for sanitation, but when it is four we do not know how it happens. So, it is there is a fragmented decision making structure in there and then I told you about the decentralization the state governments and the public utilities does not feel that municipalities are capacitated they have to give them back the funds. So, there are there is a problem and then financing if you see the these are actually kind of you know big committee reports and partly it is kind of World Bank and ADB kind of understanding also. Then water boats recover only 30 to 35 percent of the total operation and management you know expenditure that is needed and not a single Indian city of any class or size recover the full O and M charges and leading to suboptimal functioning of STPs. I am not going into the debate, but you know this this whole what we call as the neoliberal turn in policy where everything the markets have to take care you know that perspective actually sees every activity should be profitable, but what is applied to a level can attain that sanitation has to be a public it is very difficult for markets to work in sanitation. So, these are one of the public goods that the state should provide because if you have a good sanitation if there is no wastewater and no pollution it actually saves public health and even private expenditure on health care. So, these are public goods that has to be taken care by the state also. So, we cannot completely kind of you know tell that you know you have to recover your full O and operation management and things like that that is a debate we do not get it, but please take take take in mind that this has to be a public good also whatever private pollution control and you know things like that. Then let us look at the allocations allocations by by by by big you know government funding we see that you know there is this big programs like the Avalar Nehru urban renewal mission which actually then gives funding for actually big infrastructure like centralized wastewater management infrastructure. Smaller cities constituting 30% of the urban population they will not kind of get much funds then slums are constituting 17.2% of the urban population and these cities and these sections of population are systematically marginalized from these kinds of allocations and so larger share per city goes to bigger cities and metropolitan cities. So, I think the 5 major cities get 70% this year. So, the 5 major cities in India get 70% of the allocations of the area you know it is actually in a way justified also because they cannot actually think about participation or decentralization or anything and that is the need why you know smaller cities like this have to and smaller cities and we have 7000 you know kind of towns in India including census towns and all. So, if you make a model for this 1 lakh 2 lakh kind of cities it is going to give a kind of representation of 80% or 90% of the cities, but all policies all thinking all research in urban studies is going to these big cities. So, that is why we are we have brought you to here I did bring you to Bombay because Bombay can survive on its own because big researchers it is you know many other things to kind of say let us come to small cities and kind of try to understand what is happening there and then yeah one of the major other things is that you know big projects have time cost overruns that you already know that means one it takes if you if you plan for 5 years it may take 10 to 15 years to come that is a time overrun cost overruns is that you know your your first estimate will be 100 crores and at the end it will become 250 crores. So, you know these all we say let us look at what illustration 2 illustrations of that that is what I am trying to do you know the central assistance for example increased from 3700 crores in 2005 to 43000 crores in 2011 it is partly because there were a lot of central government you know foreign funded central government programs like Javala Nehruv and Renewal Mission and all. Second there is this NBG goals in this million development goals which actually gave a lot of trust to sanitation you know public health and etc. So, all this actually brought in a lot of allocations into the sector. So, the imagination of this also has increased. So, we have a big commission called you know a high power export company it is chaired by Mrs. Ishajej Alawariya who is a very famous economist and then they calculated that you need something like 31 lakh crores for capital investment and 8.17 lakh crores of operation man-penn expenses to make Indian cities clean. So, that was out to be 13,329 capital costs and 840 annual operation maintenance costs. Can we afford India we have 1.4 billion per capita is 13,000 that they are asking and that is also because of this big centralized imagination that is working in their minds and she is very active in this she actually goes to this big NB funded projects in some cities you know like Udaipur and you know and then actually writes in newspapers how well the city has actually managed this and all, but the imagination is this. So, that is one second then we calculated the estimation. So, the average cost of a sewage project and the JLNURM is 3.33 crores 1 MLB that is 1 million liters per day if you want a project if the even the capital cost is something like 3.33 crores per MLB. Running cost for 20 years is 8.10 lakh crores. So, when I was the coordinator of the policy group of the inter IIT consortium who looked at the Ganga basin management plan. So, 7 old 7 IITs came together and we had 7 groups we worked. So, policy group I coordinated. So, just looking at this allocation we calculated just for class 1 and 2 cities the per day effluent is 11,000 MLB sewage that is coming out and we found that we need 57,000 crores just for the capital investments for Ganga basin alone and that is also for class 1 and 2 cities. So, I want you to kind of just think about whether this is a feasible option this kind of centralized imagination. So, that is all calculations now let us come to a specific project because case studies are very good. You know case study is a microcosm which actually gives you indication of the macrocosm. So, it is like you know you can. So, case study actually gives you a good picture of what is happening. So, this is a study that we did from 2007 to 11. 2006 to 11 wherever we were part of a South Asian from big South Asian project where 4 South Asian universities came together and did kind of research together. So, we had 20 PSDs and 150 MDECs that came out of the project. So, what we decided was that you know we will kind of you know cross supervised PSDs also. So, this is the PSD that I supervised and when we started this project in 2007 there was a there is a proposal for a cigarette treatment plant in Kandy city in Sri Lanka. So, we just kind of just diagnose that proposal and after 4 years when the project was over in 2011 still the project has not started, but the budget has increased and then it is still not started and the proposal amount is still going up. So, one is you know the we were very it is like actually it is comparable to Alapie. We are 160,000 population in Kandy and Kandy as many of you know is a very cultural capital of Sri Lanka because you are the Buddha's youth capital then. So, you are the Mahavali river and the Mahavali lake both are very precious for the Buddhists all over the world. So, Jai Ka there is a Japan Japan International Cooperation Agency they came out with this proposal that you know they will find this. So, it is a population of 160,000 water consumption is 25,000 cubic meters per day and 80% of this is released into Kandy lake and Mahavali river. Proposal for a centralized STP the estimate was 3 billion in 1998 and when we start and in 2011 when we was finishing we have 18 billion and so that was something like you know in 13 years another 7 years is gone then 83% of this has to come as a stock loan from Japan. So, what is the technology choice that they have? The technology choice is that you know you can have different levels of purification. So, if it is just disinfection it will be like cost will be 0.5 to 1.5 you know cubic meters you know rupees per cubic meter. Also treatment full treatment advanced treatment it becomes 75 to 100 the cost of treatment will be something like 150,000. So, the point is they chose the highest level of technology because that is the for a lender it is very good as the scale of the loan goes up it is good for the lender. So, from foreign post of the loan for construction contracts engineering services almost 50% goes back to the lenders huge benefits of selling the black box of technology for the plant and pumping station. The technology is not kind of you know it comes as a black box it is not explained what it is. So, that your expertise also can come along with that and then huge benefits then the operational maintenance more than 40% of the oil and costs for chemicals repair maintenance 90% goes back to dollars annually. So, it is a very dependent kind of a technology where chemicals in the oil have to come from there. Consultancy we found that it is a very inflated you know consultancy expertise that is being charged in the project which will come in the next project also. And then what are the burden to the borrowers when you look at the burden the laying of sewer lines repair of roads and you know kind of ensuring power supply all this comes into the garment and candy is like any of our city narrow roads and you know not planned it is all half hazard roads and things like that. You know normally in the original imagination of a European industrial city it is a very planned city. So, sewer lines water lines all this can be planned. So, here that is a problem then includes the low income settlements which is actually comes to 40% in the case of candy that is the responsibility of the garment because the project funds does not take care of that and 10% of the capital cost is oil and cost that is kind of 11 million per month that is also the responsibility of the garment and this all works out to be 410 per month even water supply we will not kind of look at that. So, my student work on this aspect actually you know what is the kind of you know a tariff that should be then fixed for this and then it found that you know it is a politically feasible then the garment has to subsidize that also. Then we found that you know there is a overpriced foreign expertise that is going to manage the project and we have a you know like Nehru you know they also have you know kind of tall leaders at the time and it was all kind of you know you are all trying from 50s and 60s to develop this public sector you know we are all our own expertise about design implementation everything but you know this so there is a lack of institution relations to expertise in this project that means whatever engineers that we have they will not have much to do these kinds of big projects coming. Then continuous import of materials and expertise dependence on the donors and then the most curious thing is that the end of the pipe solution you actually bring all the pollution in candy to one point. So and then there should be continuous you know running of this whole machinery and Sri Lanka is like us where we have 8 to 10 hours of power cut maybe and in that case the pollution in the Mahabalya river increases 700 percent because otherwise it is going to different streams and you know groundwater and wetlands and things like that now you centralize that into candy river into Mahabalya river which actually is so whatever you kind of originally imagine is going in the opposite direction. So this is the problem with the end of the pipe solution that I was telling yesterday where you centralize everything together now let us come to Trivandrum so after this we had the Ganga BSN project where I looked at many of the kind of UP, Bihar class 1 and class 2 cities same kind of story and then I found that in my own city Trivandrum there was something happening from 2014-15 you know an STPK so we did a case study of that there is also an interesting transition you know from now so this is a city which actually got water supply in 1931 the earlier cities you know like one of the first eight cities which got water supply during the British period and then there was a there is a sewerage farm also like in 1930 when water supply came sewerage farm also came so all the all the waste water used to come to a farm where they used to kind of grow fodder there and then 1947 public health engineering department or the public works department began PhD in 1971 and this is also Neelam's thesis has very well brought that out you know how the kind of imagination of sanitation changed by the government of India over a period of time so in 1970s 1950s-70s it was all public health and slowly by 1980s it became water resources development and infrastructure building after 1990s so it became an infrastructure sector which has to get loan and infrastructure estimate and the earlier one was more social and public health so that shift also is one of the major shifts that happened in policy 82 water resources department 84 it was turned into Kerala Water and Base Water Authority and then in 1986 Kerala Water Authority that means you know from government to para state so they can attract more loans with one world bank loan it became a budget agency so they can attract a lot of foreign funding I told you about this and 8 MLD sewage farm was there so it was actually sustainable utilization of the base water of the city where fodder was made and the entire you know kind of modern needs of the cattle population was met by by this one people used to come there collect the fodder and give it to and even Kerala University farm was being kind of fed through this one and in but slowly the system deteriorated also because the supply increased so by 2009 the government of Kerala went for a ADB loan and they generally are a loan so when those loans come in you what you say is that you know you ring fence that funding you build a fence over that funding that that fund will never be utilized for anything any other purpose because otherwise it goes into the kind of black hole of the government machinery so to avoid that what you do is you ring fence and you make a SPV special purpose vehicle which will actually be done only for this purpose so this SPV was called KSUDP Kerala State Urban Development Project so they were responsible for this and then we just looked at you know ADB loan was the amount of the loan was 9954 million rupees which is 79% of this and the state government share was you know 20% of that that is 2691 and the municipal companies like to give 11% that is 1580 million dollars that means you know 30% of the government funding alone is a huge cost JNNU is much worse even the 20% of the loans come to more than 43000 million rupees to get something like 172 1.72 million I don't know the numbers you can kind of look at that but the point is that you know this is a huge amount and this is a huge amount so if our government is actually spending it is there a better way to kind of spend it that is the question that we can ask the new governance structure the government of India which gets the JNNU RM loan it comes to the local self-government department of the government of Kerala and then it comes to municipal corporation because according to decentralization municipal corporation is the loan agency for sanitation ADB loan also it's like that and both this come to a project management unit that is KSUDP and then there is a technical support unit which is set up by one Japanese company and an American company so these two companies came together and they were the technical unit where you know you had engineers from those and then there is something called the project implementation unit which actually so this was in two corporations and three panchayas so each one of them will have a project implementation unit and then you can something called the design service unit we found you know then we found that you know this is actually the who are here you can have any any kind of imagine who will be here these are retired engineers of Kerala water authority because you know they know how the system works isn't it they are the best people you know for the last 30 years and they made a complete parallel structure with this and Kerala water authority which has all the expertise is completely marginalized from this the whole thing and the retired engineers are happy because they get a pension and they get some kind of small and they have recruited you know kind of young engineers also to kind of run around so then what could be the problem here the municipality doesn't know what's happening and they are supposed to be responsible for this so let's see what is that so this is the fragmented governance the water and sanitation services is shared by municipal corporation KWA and SPB because KWA still has to be there because they are the technical provider and urban local body owns the whole infrastructure and SPB coordinates design and implementation and then they have a company it's a Turkey contractor who will know the operation maintenance for the first 5 years and you know in the first 5 years nothing dramatic happens after that they will leave we found that you know the KSUDP actually maintains their accounts and all well but it's not popular second you know the number of remissions with average 50% in budget have happened in the project then there is another interesting thing called minimum commitment of the loan so if you have a 100 crore loan in the first year you should be spending 20% second year you should be spending 30% 40% ratio may vary but there is a minimum commitment that you should be doing that if you don't do that you invite a penalty so you have to quickly spend it so you will spend it on something you understand so there is a spending spree and these are blocked projects also so you have to spend something otherwise you will invite a penalty that's another major these are clauses that people don't know penalty is you know you will have to pay some money they will take away some money like 50 crore will be taken as penalty from the next loan you know one of my research associates actually spend in KSCDP in wrong time you know kind of reading the small print that is there that's when we identified all this and she posed as an intern otherwise they would not get it so this is one example of the timeline you know so March 2008 the detailed project report was prepared June the technical financial bids to ADB was done so September it was re-tended and December the tender note was 545 you know kind of billion and then when so in 3 months when it was awarded there was a more than 50% hike in and this people doesn't know you know actually up to this people will know the tender note will be kept at all and this happens under that even this can happen in Kerala water authority telling that it's only because of a foreign fund project that is happening but here the it's in a much more higher scale why you need an SPB is because you don't need to follow the procedures of the government system in which you can be caught at some point of time here this is all kind of you know understood and silently kind of you know so only you know this both called everybody loves a good drought is it known to be sila so I found that everybody loves a good project who are involved in this they will all get benefited even the engineers in Kerala water authority are not complaining because you know they finally have to sign the design and all are done by the consultants but the signing is done by them then you know what happens so earlier they had to design and you know they had to do all that and curious thing is that you know the Kerala water authority MD is no longer you know it was an engineer all the time then it became IAS now it is IAA days some AGs will come there because big things are happening are accounting big foreign fund projects are happening so you need so one of my students work is that you know how public water utility how the engineering you know how the engineers are losing and how it is kind of becoming you know more kind of accountant oriented and things like that so this is the institutionalization and that's why engineering education has to quickly improve and you know kind of answer to these these demands from below also because the design content is all gone so that's why we in this you know we are trying to kind of make them design the civil engineers so this is one thing here we have 107 MLD 107 milliliters per day capacity project but your sewer capacity is only 30% it has hardly improved 3-4% and this was done by the Maharaja in 1936 so after this big project the sewer capacity has increased only 3-4 so only the plant is there and this other one so we thought why it is then we found that you know one what I told about the candy system our roads are not you know then but in every kilometer because this is by gravitation so in one kilometer you will get into a head of something like one meter or more than that then you need to pump it so that means you need 20 cents of land every kilometer as pumping station which then where do you get in you know our kinds of cities so this is the major challenge we are not ideologically against centralization or anything there are huge practical challenges in you know in alopee you would not get a head at all because it is a plain thing so you need much more kind of a pumping so pumping is not only energy but it is also land so this is not the huge constraints of the railway system and then in JNNU we are very strangely no allocation for land for buying land so where do you get that land then so you have very high you know impressive detailed project reports cannot be implemented this is another curious thing you know it is the pre-fondance of consultancy we found that this is the percentage of consultancy over a period of time so in the first year itself 84% is pendant consultancy the Japanese will come and take away the consultancy in the first year itself then it is your engineers who can that is why we then need retired engineers to kind of come and design the whole thing so you know like the candy case you have a very interesting technology dependence it is a whole thing we thought that in the 50s and 60s we thought that this technology transfer is creating dependence we thought it is a whole debate it is very new through the funding through the neoliberal funding that is happening now so that is the first thing second is there is a 0% interest rates in Japan you know that so even a soft loan invites something like 2% for the state government then you have a central government there who is a money lender who gets a profit in that so at the end of the day it is not a soft loan for government of India or to the state government central government gets 2% I think how much the state government will get it for but for the Japanese government it is actually the machinery or as a country it is the kind of their own machinery that is coming their own expertise that is coming it is very great wonderful you can kind of run like a bullet but the point is everything comes from there your bogies, your rail tracks everything is constricted there and it is only kind of put here so you just look at the kind of flow of money 1880 Dada Bhai Navarroji wrote about drain theory how the British developed us what we are paying for the railways what is the kind of drain that is happening do we think that we are independent now so I think this is where we have to really think on our own kind of feet which most of us do not have a shoe also we think that we think on our own shoes 90% does not have shoes also in this country so we have to really think about what is actually important for us so this is it so the first thing on average it becomes something like 18% is the kind of foreign element of the consistency that is happening so this is the kind of observations that we have one there is a financial crisis for the KWA which we have to really think about why and then lack of planning and foresight urbanization, growing population so there is no kind of physical imagination of the next 20 years or something how we should move for our own public quality of living so it is not any foreign process problem it is our own problem that we are not kind of thinking with foresight second is thus if you invite soft loans with unequal and opaque terms then we have global standards of infrastructure like the SLB the service level benchmarks where all the population have to be connected through sewers very good London has done that, Paris has done that Trivandrum should do it so that is the global imagination of that needs to be de-skilling of Kerala Water Authority engineers plans done mostly through retired personnel international consultancy bulk of the consultancy so the context, our context has challenges in accommodating global models all of you agree this global imagination our context has a problem in accepting that can we think about what our context is and then plan that is the challenge that we have to kind of ask how to bring models to context or conceive models that suit the context that is the question that we are asking these are some suggestions like how to bring in transparency accountability and participation and governance how to bring in more ownership by the staff staff unions, is there a process to kind of do that being analytical input through the academia how much can engineering education you know kind of feed into practice and how much can the academia learn from practice so can there be a synergy that is being brought up so that we have contextual education also that as you are out of your engineering college you can plan the infrastructure also from here so you do not need to have foreign consultants coming and once this Jehruvin engineers are retired we have a big vacuum there de-institutionalization and that is when they can come and take over because big technologies can be handled only by them is it so in Kochamamba for example in Argentina in many Latin American countries this has happened many French companies have come and they took over but the problem is that too much of hike and so people have reacted also so so need to change curriculum from academic side and openness from you know kind of body they have a new grid of engineers who can practice the art of engineering beyond the science of engineering how to talk with people how to design from below you know those kinds of things then dialogue with universities incorporate these into character so those are the things so my last slide we can kind of recoup all these things this course and then infrastructure this course which actually is very global which comes to international financial institutions and this come become their vision documents this comes to government of India and then this also become funding conditionalities and this and then we have old state public utilities which are kind of bypassed because the funds have to come to urban local bodies through the international financial institutions also need that because they don't need to deal with the big state the big public utility where they are engineers so if that is not there then it can happen through SPVs that's where the SPVs so national water policy also will reflect all this and then you have you know water engineers speed level bureaucrats here who are actually bypassed what happens is that you have an expert provider that is the big consultants who directly comes to the local body you understood this there is a global discourse that global discourse gives us global finance and the global finance gives us global consultants they bypass the central government in the municipality who doesn't have any capacity so since there is no capacity there is a parallel body that's being made that means these government institutions get de-institutionalized de-capacity and so the point is now urban local bodies are they need to plan assessment, technology selection institutional options, implementation monitoring and regulation all these have to be done by the urban local body so the challenge that we are posing from this project is that can academic institutions be knowledge providers and local NGOs and residence associations and all can this realm work with these people to help them kind of get into this so local actions how can local actions be there so when you choose this actually there is no model for that how do you do it so that's our protocol and it's an evolving protocol so it's very important that you know so this exercise is very important to kind of refine that protocol thank you