 Taggert, thank you very much for joining me. We're just going to talk about a little incident that occurred yesterday, which I didn't know anything about until I had a meeting and somebody said, did you know that the 100 mile treadmill world record was broken on Zwift yesterday? No. And here we are, 24 hours later, and I'm talking to Taggert. Tell me about your surname. I love your surname. My name is Taggert Monettin. I am 25. I'm a PE teacher and an ultra marathoner. Have you done any family history about your surname, Monettin? I know it's Welsh. I think it's Welsh. That's about all I know. I couldn't really tell you much to be honest. Do you know anything? When I first heard it, I thought, oh, a Dutch guy has broken the 100 mile world record. So don't know. He's from Illinois. Okay. That's funny. That's great. Okay. So you're 25, 25, 26, 25. 25. You're 25. You're from Illinois, born and bred Illinois? Yep. Born and bred in the cornfields here. Tell me, you're a farm boy. Okay. How did you get into running as a farm boy? Well, originally I was a wrestler. I wrestled when I was a kid and, you know, wrestling practice, you run a lot. So then my senior year, I decided, you know what, let's go out for cross country and track. And long behold, that was my true love all along. So when I was 17 years old, I first started running and fell in love with it, just like most people do. Okay. So around about 16, 17, you kind of started to run collegiate stuff. Did you track? So I had a very short collegiate career where I actually hated running for a while. I got very injured quickly. And I ended up in triathlon when I was a junior in college, my third year. So I saw, because obviously I did a little bit of snooping. Yeah, you did. So you did a pretty good sprint triathlon time a couple of years ago. Yeah. I got into a really good triathlon training. Like I said, I was a junior senior and then a little bit post collegiate career. I was only running like twice or three times a week. And a lot of my, well, all my triathlon cycling was on Zwift, which was really nice. And I actually got very strong on the bike from Zwift races. I wouldn't even do bike workouts. I would just sign up for like 30 miles on Richmond and I'd get done for an hour at 320 watts and I'd be smoked. And then I hop off the bike and run three miles. And then I hop off the bike and run three miles. I am convinced that nobody does workouts on Zwift riders. I'm sure they just all race. And that's how they do that if they're training. It's all racing, isn't it? It totally is. It got me in the best shape, you know, because with the A racing, I'd say the tempo is like 280, 290 watts for me. And then the sprints are 400. And like you do that for an hour, you're burning a thousand calories and you got like 80 TSS points on training peaks and being about a boom. There you go. So I miss it. You say you miss it so you don't cycle very much on Zwift anymore? Since I turned into ultra running, I primarily run in my off season. In December, I did some Zwift racing just to stay in shape and just to get my heart rate up. But now that I'm just running, no, I do not. Unfortunately, I just don't have the time to since I run so much. Same, same here to be perfectly honest with you. My bike has gone in place of another treadmill next to me. So when did the change happen? When did the change happen from triathlon to just running and then ultra running? So in November, 2019, I ran a marathon. I did 237 from like 20 miles a week of running with a lot of triathlon training. So then I decided in 2020, I would chase eventually a United States of America Olympic trials qualification, the marathon and 2023 and OTQ. So because everything that happened in 2020, I never got my chance to run a marathon. So around like July is like May to July, I went in this huge base training phase just hoping for a fall marathon and it never happened. And then finally, once my fall marathon got the official cancellation, I was just kind of speechless. I didn't know what to do. I was running 120, 130 miles a week and that's when I was like, I'll just sign up for my first ultra. So I signed up for the Tunnel Hill 100 Miler that was on November 14th of last year and I trained my butt off for 16 weeks for it. Let me just go back to something you said right at the beginning there. So you did your first marathon in 237 from 20 miles a week training. I'm not broadcasting now. There was a lot of cycling and swimming in there. There was a lot of cycling and swimming in there. If you want to break three hours for a marathon, you've got to be doing at least 60 miles a week, 100K a week, you know, or you're not going to break it. I mean, there's different ways to do things up there. And like you said, you did a lot of cycling, a lot of swimming, and that will all help with your aerobic base to get to the use of the level that you need to be. And also, let's not forget talent. You know, some people have it, don't they, really? I kind of credit Zwift Racing to work those muscles that I wasn't when I was running, you know, that made my quadriceps really strong. That could handle the beating that they took on that day in 2019. So I did, I did a lot of hard cycling and I was swimming 30,000 yards a week on top of that. So. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So you've been putting in the hours. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I was putting in probably 20 hours a week of triathlon training, which is very tough training. But listen, you're 25. You should be out nightclubbing. You should be drinking with the boys. Why are you putting in 120, 130 miles a week training? What is it about your personality that makes you do that? Well, now I'm training a lot higher. That was just back at the first of the year 2020. I'm not saying I don't go out with the boys at the clubs on an occasional Saturday night, but I don't know. It's just like I had this all or nothing personality. You know, I can't be, I can't be at 60 or 70%. It's either 100% or like off season pretty much. I just can't see myself wanting to pursue this dream of someday, eventually, ultra marathon records and an Olympic trials qualification and only giving myself 70% of the effort or 80% of the effort. Did you have any encouragement from your parents? Were your parents sporty types? How have they helped in your development? My dad in eighth grade was a five minute miler, which kind of helps my genes a little bit, I suppose. But when he got into high school, he was too cool to run and he just played baseball and basketball. My mom, my mom wasn't very athletic, but both of them, ever since I started distance running, have been very supportive towards me. So I mean, like even to this day, I don't live at home, but my mom still cooks my meals. She meal preps for me and brings it over. She does everything she can to accommodate my training just because it's so tough when you're running 200 miles a week because you have no free time at all. Well, believe me, wait till you get kids and a wife. That is a ways off for me right now. The good thing is though, in about 10 years time, you'll swap your mom making your meals and crewing for you to your wife making your meals and crewing for you. That's just the way it works. Exactly. So we get to November 2020 and you enter this race. I guess before the race, I should say one quick thing. For 16 weeks, I averaged about 16570 miles a week of running and I went into the race with the intentions of breaking the American trail record, which was 120824. It was Zach Vedder's course record there. And after the best day of my life, I came across the finish line and 12 hours, 19 minutes and 54 seconds. So I came up 11 or 12 minutes short of the American record, but I mean, for being 24 and running that time, I was just, I was thrilled. It was, it was the best day I could ever have helped for. Plus, it was like a dream come true almost. I was going to say, so, so somebody who's that driven that they're running 165 or so miles a week in training and then and then sets how public was that goal? Did you tell everyone that's wanted what you wanted to do? Or did you just keep it to yourself? I thought, I thought about making it public. Then one of my best friends said, Tiger, you probably shouldn't do that since you've never ran an ultramarathon, you know, but I was confident because I was confident because the odds and the long runs I was doing pretty much equal to close to a 1208 or 1209. And you did. I mean, it's essentially you did that. You did 1219, which anybody would say is close to 1208. And the only person who beat you in the tunnel was the current at the time that the world record holder for for the hundred conditions. Yeah. Yeah, that must have been. That must have been awesome. It was it was so sweet. It was just getting through that finish line and having my and having my three best friends there. Everyone was just pumped up to be there that night in November. Immediately following that, did no one contact you and say we'd like to sponsor you? Did you not get any calls? I reached out to a few and they said I didn't have enough results. I was told by people that I was told by people that, you know, all these all these companies are going to are going to come after you. And a couple of them just basically said that I didn't have enough ultramarathon results. So I still don't have. Yeah, I guess they're hedging their bets and they say, well, maybe it was a freak result. You know, would we just have to kind of keep our eyes on this guy. Yeah. So you finished the tunnel and you've done it in a ridiculously good time. What is your next plan? What did you think? What am I going to do next? Well, my next plan was to take about three weeks off a run and gain 10 pounds and play a bunch of video games. So I did that. Sounds good. So I did that. Then going into the new year, I really hadn't had any plans. The COVID numbers were on the rise in the US, especially Illinois. And with being a PE teacher, a new homeowner, and just being single, I couldn't afford to go go across the country and race, you know, most of my races are within a three to six hour driving distance. I'd love to go race somewhere, but I just, you know, I've got a mortgage. So I thought about doing the US 100K national championship, but then that got moved back from April to September. So then around January, I'm just running on the treadmill one day and I'm scrolling through my phone and I look and I see that the treadmill world record is 12 hours, nine minutes and 15 seconds. And I say, well, I can probably do that as a tune up for this fall and try to try to hit it. So I made it public, I think on January 4th that I was going to hopefully run under 12 hours for that day. And that's when I decided that for the next 16 weeks, I would train for the treadmill world record. So I was going to ask you how you came to use Zwift to run with during your 100 mile attempt. But we've already talked about the fact that you were cycling on Zwift at one point. What got you into Zwift? How did you hear about Zwift in the first place, back when? Back when I was in college. Oh man, it was around that 2017 mark when Zwift was really hitting, really hitting like triathletes and cycling. And I was at I was at college triathlon nationals and I think they had a demo or something and you could sign up for Zwift for free for like a month. And once I did it, I didn't even have a smart trainer at the time. I've got a kicker now, but I signed up and I just started writing. I was like, this is insane. This can completely change my training. I don't have to go outside anymore. I can just I can ride in here. I can crank watts in my apartment and just be safe, you know, and it was just a huge game changer for me. And my last year in triathlon training, I have it recorded that over 95% of my cycling training was inside. And when did you first start running on Zwift? I didn't start running on Zwift until this this past year, pretty much when I was looking for different platforms to use for the 100 mile race. I didn't really think it was as big as what it was when I got on Mayfield for the first time and I saw there are 50 people on there. I was like, oh, there's there's more people on here than what I expected. And because I wasn't cycling, I didn't I didn't I didn't like renew my subscription. And I thought Zwift running would cost money, but it's completely free, which is awesome for any runner, ultra runner, you know, who who wants something that's a little more social for them. So I was like, OK, well, this is this is free to do. And it's something that's halfway, you know, that that you can focus your mind on rather than just your steps on a treadmill. Why didn't you just use a YouTube videos or, you know, Netflix or I have tried to watch videos while running and it just takes my concentration away. I don't know what it is. I can't watch videos. I can't listen to podcasts. It's got to be it's got to be like either Zwift outside or music. There's there's there's nothing I just can't do movies. I've tried so many times and and I spend hours on a treadmill a week and I just can't do it. Why do you spend hours on a treadmill each week? I know I did read the article about you in Canadian Running Magazine. And I thought it was interesting what you were saying about why you do run on a treadmill a lot. Can you explain that to people? So I think I think running and triathlon and just in general, you know, everyone calls it the the treadmill. You know, people runners still look at the treadmill like cyclists used to look at the trainer a lot, I think. So I I really adapted the trainer in my triathlon training and I learned to love it. And I knew I had to do the exact same thing with the treadmill to be safe to prevent injury and all this stuff because because the treadmill absorbs all that shock. And that's how, you know, I've been able to run so much every single morning on the treadmill in the afternoons outside because I'm not pounding it's it's it is flexing for me. And I just think as runners, if we're able to change that mindset, that it's not the treadmill. It's a it is a training tool that can improve us. You know, everyone will get injured less. We'll start running faster. All that good stuff. I did I did all my training. I had three fans on me. I had music blastings with I mean I got my nutrition. I don't have to worry about anything. You are still focused on running as well. So you've got something in front of you which is entertaining to a degree. You've got a bit of social if you want to chat to people or whatever. You've got runners running around you. But essentially the core of it is that you're still focused on your running and even more so to some degree because rather than looking down at your watch, you've got your stats on the screen as well. So if you want to see what your heart rate is doing, if you want to see what your average pace is, it's right in front of you as well. It's kind of distracting but also focusing at the same time. Oh, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Definitely for sure. During during the 100 mile run, I mean, I didn't really ever have to look away of the screen because unless unless someone was wanting to talk to me. I mean, I just kind of stay focused on the screen, you know, just my avatar and and other splits on the side of the screen. What were you thinking about for 12 hours? 11 and a half hours, let's say. For 11 and a half hours, the same thing that I thought about for the 16 weeks, I'm going to go break this record. And the only person stopping me was myself. I mean, I fully believe with endurance sports, all it takes is all you're willing to give and that's just kind of my motto. I mean, I had fun, I talked to people, I enjoyed myself. But, you know, around that mile 30 mark, the chatter kind of stopped and it's time to lock in. I've got 70 miles ahead of me and I just did my best to stay focused on my running, you know, just putting one foot from the other and doing my best to eventually break a world record. But tell me about nutrition because it's the main reason why people DNF in these sorts of things. Are you a gels guide? Do you keep sugar going in or are you fat burner? What do you do? I have a very high carbohydrate based diet. I eat a lot of fruits and vegetables. So in races, I rely on carbohydrate. Every two miles I would have what's called the salt stick chew. I would have two of them that's like 50 milligrams of salt just because of the heat in there. The last three hours was over 80 degrees in the bar that I ran in. So it was very hot. Yeah, it was very hot. As far as regular nutrition, I would rotate between four things. A either chocolate or vanilla goo. A honey stinger or waffle. A cliff block chew or a banana. So I would have one every four miles. So every about 28 minutes, I eat one of those whenever I experienced tightness in my legs like a cramp. I would drink about three ounces of pickle juice and I would take an extra salt capsule. Then at past the 50 mile mark, my capsules change from just regular capsules to ones with added caffeine in there. And I didn't have a stomach issue the whole day. I actually didn't go number two. I had either tunnel hill or during the treadmill. I know what my body needs. I'm not afraid to take an extra gel and I'm also not afraid to hold the gel off for a mile. There were twice during the treadmill run where I took two gels right back to back. But how do you know that? How do you know that you know what your body needs after just two 100 mile ultra runs? Because for most people they would say it takes years of experience, years of running these ultras and throwing up everywhere and dying a horrible death two thirds of the way through the race and walking it in at the end before they finally get some idea of how their body works and what to use. What have you been doing? Is it triathlon? What was it? It was triathlon. Focusing on the Olympic distance and eventually 70.3. Most of those races are between four and four and a half hours. I wasn't a marathoner who was a fast marathoner coming into ultra. I was a fast triathlete who was coming over into ultra where I had a background of carbohydrate, electrolyte, magnesium, salt and all that. I found out in my training runs that my stomach is a little more sensitive than cycling versus running. But I just kind of experimented pretty much every Saturday or Sunday. When I was doing a long run in my build-up to Tunnel Hill and my build-up to my treadmill, I practiced it. I would take in the exact same nutrition that I did on race day to where there was absolutely nothing new and I knew how my stomach and my gut would react. It is fascinating because you speak with such maturity about running at such a young age I was going to say a lack of experience. I mean, you have got experience, but the fact of the matter is you've only done 200 miles. The way in which you speak about nutrition, the way in which you speak about pacing, your race, your running and the way in which you talk about your goals speaks of an older, wiser man than is sitting in front of me in Illinois right now. You better not let my mom or my friends hear that, so that's why I'm at that point. I just pursued you and me. I've just always done my research on running. I'm not afraid to ask questions. I'm not afraid to go look up stuff, to see what other people have done and adjusted to me with anything as far as triathlon and ultra in a big endurance event. What works for you might not work for me and what works for me might not work for another guy. You just honestly have to understand what it takes for your stomach to handle stuff and how to train. On race day, I woke up at 2 a.m. because I knew I needed to drink this amount of coffee to go to the bathroom and that I knew that the caffeine in the coffee would wear off at a certain time. That's when I would take in my breakfast and my breakfast would digest by the time I lined up. It's just really understanding yourself and your body to be able to have a successful ultra endurance event. You've got to fine-tune with yourself, I suppose. Let's just change tactful one second and talk about technical things. A lot of the Zwift runners are very keen on our gadgets. We all love our watches and our treadmills and our heart rate monitors and our hookpods. What was your technical setup for your 100-mile run? In front of me, I had an 80-inch flat-screen LG TV that was at the bar. It was great to look at all day. On my feet, I had a stride pod, just as normal. I don't ever actually use GPS. I just use the stride pod because I trust it for distance over GPS because that could be off. On my watch, I had my Garmin 945. Like usual, I love it. It plays music. It can hold like 1,000 songs. It's probably never failed me right here. It's always on me. I don't wear a heart rate monitor. Never had, never will. I can just tell by myself when I'm... This kind of goes back to understanding your body. I can understand how to run slow, how to run medium, how to run fast. So I couldn't tell you what my heart rate was all day. I could estimate that's probably 150, but I don't know that for sure. What treadmill you were using to make? I used a Matrix treadmill. Okay, cool. It was a Matrix, a commercial treadmill. I got the job done and handled me fairly well. I had four fans. I had one in front of me, two to the side. One actually on my face, and I had the little fan across the treadmill. But I still wasn't good enough for the heat there that day, but... Sure. Let's just talk about this stride for a second because a lot of people complain that when they're running on Zwift, the stride put towards gives them a slower pace than it would do it does outside. Have you experienced that at all with the stride? So I did a 75-mile tune-up on Zwift with the stride, and I had Zwift reading slower than what my watch was, and it was my fault because I realized I didn't hit the little tool button to calibrate it. It was a Bluetooth that picked it up, but just like any smart trainer, you have to calibrate it whenever you move it, and I didn't do the calibration. So as far as issues like that, I didn't have any because we calibrated the stride pod the day before, and then we also calibrated it that morning, so I didn't have issues with that. Did your treadmill read all the way up to one-six-one kilometers? No, no. The treadmill shut off every 99 minutes, about every 14 or 14 miles. Every 14 or 14 and a half miles, I had to hop off and go pee and basically came back. I didn't mind it at all. It was nice to have the break, honestly. Have you made any moves to get the time ratified at all? Do you think it would be allowed to be recognized? Yes, I'm going through with the Guinness Book of World Records for that. I am filling out the information and sending in the video of the run and everything from the livestream, so I'm still technically awaiting it. It'll probably take six weeks for the whole thing to be either yay or nay, but I've done everything as far as that. Hopefully it will be ratified, but I think we're getting to a stage now where a lot of times are being run indoors and outdoors, where the official Guinness guy isn't there. I think it happened for Florian's 100k as well, but I think a lot of us are just accepting, we'll all know that you've got the 100 mile treadmill world record. Everybody knows that. It doesn't have to be ratified by Guinness. Do you know what I mean? We all know. Okay, cool. So you've done the 100 mile world record on a treadmill. That is yours. Where do you go from that? From there. I hop off the treadmill. I tear up. I give my mom a hug, which was the best thing ever, because I felt like it was our world record. I open a bottle. I saw the video. Yeah. I pop a bottle of champagne and I celebrate with my closest friends and family for the next 30 minutes until I almost go into the coma. So I get done there. And now I am focusing on the overall world record, which I'm going to try to do on June 19th. I'm going to go to a race in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's called Six Days in a Dome. And hopefully I can run under 11, 14, 56 on that day. That's the plan. Would you say that you are, I mean, you are at the moment, but you're going to concentrate fully on pretty flat running? Or do you have any plans to go and do something like Western States, come over to Europe and do UTMB? Are those thoughts in your head at all? Oh, those thoughts are definitely in my head. It's just where I live in Illinois, there's no trails for me to train on. So like logistically, as of right now where I stand, it makes the most sense with me working full time to only train for a flat race. I would love, I would love go to Western States. I would love to go to UTMB, hard rock, all that stuff. But as far as right now, the track stuff appeals to me. But I would definitely someday love to eventually try to get a golden ticket, you know, try to go, you know, just, just try to do the actual trail racing. But just right now it's just, it's just not in the cards for me. So hopefully someday after the OTQ, maybe that, but it's not right now. Sorry, what's the OTQ target? An Olympic trials qualification for the marathon for the United States. And so the Olympic trials, when, when are they due? So they will be ran. It hasn't been released yet, but I imagine it'll be like March of 2024, February of 2024. So a ways off, but I still got to run my qualifying time for that in the next year, but next, or I guess next two years. But listen, like I said, if you know, if you break the outdoor 100, you've got to have something's going to happen. Something's going to change for you. You know, it really has to, I would have thought. And just a couple more, you know, two or three more decent results on the ITRA websites or whichever website you use to look at your ultra stats. And you've got to have some phone calls target surely. Honestly, I still haven't had a phone call yet. I mean, I mean, other than Salt Stick, who is providing me with product, them and I have a nice relationship, you know, I give them shout outs and everything and they provide me with stuff I need. But I don't, I don't have anything. I'm just, I'm just a PE teacher, baseball, basketball, track coach who runs. Have you had any thoughts about doing the 50 mile or the 50 K world record times on treadmills or outdoors? I don't even know what the 50 K and the 50 mile is. I'm more interested in because of Jim Walms. He's running January, you know, I think that kind of sparked a lot of people's interest in 100 K. So maybe someday, few years from now, I'd like to do a fast 62.1. But as of right now, you know, I want to get this 100 mile world record and then kind of go from there because I have no idea what I'm going to do this fall or next year. I just got to focus on this next 42 or 43 days of training to, to achieve that goal. That's one really important thing I forgot to ask you, Tag, what shoes do you wear? So for Tunnel Hill, I wore the Nike Alpha Fly. Then for the treadmill 100, I wore the Hoka Carbon X2. Okay. So how do you find the Carbon X2? I found them a bit hard, actually, certainly compared to the Vapor Flies, which I wear a lot. So I do all of my training in the Hoka Bondi 6 and the Hoka Bondi 7. I made the switch because I think I enjoy a four to five millimeter drop. I think that's kind of what goes best with my body. So that's why I chose the Carbon X2 over the Alpha Fly. I've tried that in the next percent and the next percent was a little, was probably just a little too thin for my feet. I've got fat feet. So, so the Alpha Fly made sense for Tunnel Hill and then, and then with me doing all my training and the Hoka Bondi, it just made sense for me to do this and the Carbon X2. Well, listen, Taggett, it was amazing to hear about that run and I'm so glad I've got to talk to you. Do you know what? I genuinely feel like I'm talking to somebody who in five years' time will be regarded as one of the best ultra runners in the world. Seriously, I'm not, you know, I really hope so because you strike me as a really intelligent guy who's really thinking about what he's doing. And, you know, you've had two amazing results, the treadmill and the tunnel, the tunnel win and the treadmill world record. I really wish you all the very best for the 100 mile world record as well. And on June the 19th, did you say June the 19th? Where is it? Where is it going to be? Where are you going to do it? It is at the Pettit Center in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It's called Six Days in a Dome. Okay, so we'll keep our eyes out. I'm going there. Yeah, I'm going there with all intentions to break it. It's going to be, it's going to be just like Steve Prefonte inside a suicide pace. The only pace worth, the only pace worth running is the pace you're going to die at. So if I'm not running at 645 pace, then I might as well step off the track. That's Jim Wormsley though. Jim Wormsley says that. And that's been my, I'm guessing because I'm not, you know, I'm a mid-packer. Elite runners have to have that mindset of, I am going to go for this. And if it kills me, it kills me because there's no other way to do it. Someday, someday if I ever make the Olympic trials in 2024, the only pace worth running is the pace of the lead pack because you never know. Even though I'm not the most naturally talented guy, I might not have a, well, I will never have a sub 210 marathon. I'll never have a sub 205 marathon. But if I can someday hold on with those leaders, you know, the Galen rubs of the world, whoever threw 16, 18 miles and I fall off and die, I'd rather do that than be 150th place in the back. That's just kind of my train of thought, you know. I'd rather go out with the lead pack with the elite pace and just do my best to hang on as long as possible because you never know. With that one day, it could be, it could be your, it just could be your day. Somebody could be off and you could be on and it could be your day. It is very risky to do it because, you know, it could happen where you DNF and you just have an awful race, but I don't know. It's just worth it, just in case. Fantastic. Taggart, thank you so much for taking the time to come and speak to me today. I hope we speak to each other again and one day we might run together on Zwift if I can keep up with you. Sounds good, Stephen. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I had fun today. Take care, Taggart. Thanks very much.