 Welcome back to The Breakfast here on PLOS TV Africa. Away from getting young people into the electoral and political space, let's move to Kaduna State, where Reverend Joseph Hayab, the chairman, Christian Association of Nigeria, is joining us via Zoom to share on the current issues in Kaduna State. Good morning Reverend Hayab. Good morning and thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us. We received news this morning that four more of the Bethel Baptist students have been set free or have been found. Quickly share with us what the current situation is. Yes, the night of Sunday after the release of the 28th, four of our children escaped. Three of them were lucky to have been found by a good Samaritan who brought them home. One of them was unlucky. He was found by a greedy Nigeria who, instead of bringing them home, decided to call and negotiate his own side rate to show you how people have become heartless in our country. That night he had to insist after long negotiation within the hours to collect 130,000 from us and even instruct us to buy a small phone or 5,000 for him and some recharge card for 5,000, then he collected cash, 120,000. But in all, four of them are back to their parents and we have 83 years with the captain. Well, I'm shocked. As the person who collected 130,000 been arrested, was he reported to the police yet? Who is going to arrest him? You see, the situation we have is that if these children can even escape the way they escape. Just because at this point, these are not too far from where our security confers them. Look at the ages of these children, but you see, it's just something, you will go and be answering questions. You know, when people are in such situation, I am fond of using adage now, like our brothers from the East. There's an adage that says that if someone is in danger, even if you give him a night, he's going to grab it as long as he's going to escape. So I think that the situation we are now, we are doing virtually everything as long as our children will come back. The issues about who arrest him, well, we don't know, we'll catch up with him very soon. But you know, if we divide ourselves into, divide our attention into that, we'll just get ourselves into more problems. Focus down on this, get our children home first. And so, you know, this of course, makes me ask about the interest and the efforts of security agencies in either negotiating or getting these kids released, because if you have four kids, you know, escape, and it's not the first time that we're hearing of anybody, of kids escaping, I think that was something that happened a couple of days ago, sometimes last week. They should be able to trail or ask the kids to, you know, take them back or direct them to where the rest of them are. So is there any security effort at all? You see, I'm a pastor and a church leader. I don't want to do security work. You know, one of the challenges with Nigeria is that when you start guiding our leaders or offer advice, you will say, you want to teach me my job. And so sometimes we don't want to become teachers of people in their job. Our goal is to do our own role, playing the role of a parent, playing the role of a church leader, playing the role of a pastor. My job is to start with this parent, start with these children onto their back. I don't want to go and teach people their job. I think they are better off. One of the things that I can say in this medium is that it was when we have even gotten those 28 students, passed them onto their parents and I was driving back to town from the school before I got a call from police asking me what happened, how did we get them? How did we find them? You can't believe this. So I don't want to start teaching people their job because the more we explain these things, some people who probably see us as friends start getting angry because we are speaking bad of their work. But Nigerians know that something is wrong. Things are not going the way it's supposed to be. Revan Hayab, is there any confirmation with regards to the payment of ransom? Has any money been exchanged hands? Are there still negotiations going on? Well, you see, the other day I did explain this that I don't want to belong to the school of saying there was no money that was given. The only thing I'm not going to get involved now is how much was given because the focus is to get the remaining children back. But truly money was given, simple. And what they wanted from us, we gave them. And even they requested for additional food. We gave them before the initial release of the 28th. So it's not that there's no another new negotiation. Why they chose to give it to start releasing them in bodies is something we cannot explain. But from our negotiation and understanding with them, it was done. They're supposed to just release all of them to us and nothing more. Why are all these things happening? Since I'm not part of the bandit who connected to them, I'll only make a guesswork and I don't want to make guesswork for Nigeria. I'm going to speak what I know and what I don't know. I leave it on to when I'm sure of it and I'm going to say it. So there was a conversation. Money, food was asked. First, we gave their ask for money. Yes, the church didn't give the money, but parents wanted their children to come out as we brought them. So they contributed the money as it was expected. They gave and it was delivered. They promised they were going to release the children. They do not release and insist another food should be brought. Food was sent again the second time. Then a day or two later, they said, is it something that we say to people? The day they actually collected the money, we're hoping that they went to release the children indeed. And when we call them, they just tell us, I'm sorry, we've gone to town, so we couldn't give you the children today. That means they are connected with somewhere in the town. Where do they go to town? Huge money like that, they must have gone to the city where the boss who is in charge is doing. The problem is that these people were not seeing them one to one to talk. We are communicating with them on phone. I have been asking myself, the need registration we force and trouble Nigerians to do. Why is it not affecting these people that we are communicating with them and no one can trap them? It's only affecting innocent I am when I express myself. Recently when there was a ban on Twitter and I just posted my concern about the ban, security were sending it to me to show me they have seen it. And I just laughed. If they can see what I said about the ban on Twitter, why are they not seeing what these evil people are doing and they've not gone after them? It's a shame in our country. What is the, this is too sad. What is the current state of these parents? I said it a couple of days ago that Nigerians across the country must have run into debt trying to raise funds to pay ransom. So when we're talking, I'm guessing millions of Naira now from people who normally wouldn't have these funds available. So what is the current state of these parents who have had to source funds to get their kids back, including those who still haven't gotten their kids back? Well, we are trusting God that there will be no additional funds, but sourcing that phone wasn't easy for many parents. I remember one of them yesterday I called and she was in hospital. The hospital view was even difficult. This way and managed to get the phone to contribute as part of her daughter. It's quite, it's exactly the picture you're seeing. That's the woman and her daughter. It's quite sad. That's the widow, the wife of one of my late friends. That's her only daughter and she's doing no work. Brother, sometimes when I speak about this I'm really, really, really hot in my mind. But there's nothing we can do. Parents are in depth, truly, truly speaking. But what else can you say? We just pray that with life, there's hope we can get it over the sins. Is there any word from the governor of God in our state, as it stands? He is in praise of God and his son consigned. His son consigned. He is the star of the world. That's the word. So I'm just repeating what they've been saying. He has been bringing his son consigned. So that's the word he's showing consigned. Oh, we've had a lot of consigned. We don't want consigned anymore. We want action that will stop our children from becoming afraid of coming out. See, yesterday, before you may not ask this, the paramour ruler of white tribe, an 83-year-old man, over 80, who has been a paramour life, his class team for over 40 years, was kidnapped. So if as highly-placed people like that would be kidnapped, though it was in his family, that's to show you that everywhere, nowhere he said it. So this is a challenge we are having in Canada state at the moment. So all the government will tell us that he has been briefed, he's showing consigned, and then all the person who speaks and should know that consigned is not enough, is an enemy or he's identifying with an interest. So he was quite sad. But my focus as a leader now is, honestly, how these children can come back and how these parents will. Because those parents whose children are not back are really angry and not happy. Oh, we are consoling them. We are giving them assurance, but you know it's not easy. I'm not going to lie about that. It's not easy. I can't even imagine what this would feel like. Can you share with us? Because you look like you need to also rest. So we would have to let you go in a bit. Can you also share with us what the kids are saying, what they've been through while in captivity? Does any of them have any health challenges that needs to be quickly addressed? I just told you one that was in all of us. Actually, all those children had to be taken to hospital. All of them. And some of them are still. Some, because of their strength in their body, they didn't last long, but a good number of them are still in hospital. Same, the daughter of my late friend is still in hospital with her mother. I'm not a medical expert. So the doctors are caring for them. One of the parents who spoke to me this morning told me, look, my son had to vomit twice and it was so bad, that he's stabilizing. He's still in hospital, he's stabilizing. I said, well, let's do it. Because we didn't take them out to the hospital ourselves. We allowed the parents to take them to their own hospital since we have the other 80 something to attend to. We didn't want to have a divided mind. We're only asking information. How is it your child doing? What is going on? But at the moment, a good number of them are in hospital. I think their parents will be in better position to say, what is their condition? But the few that have spoken to me told me they are improving. We hope so. I could see many of them couldn't walk the other day. I just hope that they can walk better. You can see from the picture there that your man is finding it difficult to walk. When you look at their foods, you will know that these children went through hell. And they look absolutely traumatized. I'm also going to be, of course, hopeful that the Rest 83 are released pretty soon. I'm going to let you go in a bit. But I want to ask, if these ones who are being able to escape, does that in any way show that the kidnappers are losing capacity to hold all these kids any longer? Since kidnapping business started in Canada, people have always escaped somehow. So that shows that these kidnappers are not what we are reaching them to be. I think what really is the problem is we don't have the will to go after them. They are not what we are reaching them to be. But we don't have the will to go after them. When we go after them, I'm not a security guard, but I was born and brought up because my father served and fight in the army, in the civil war. So I grew up in the barracks. I have some knowledge of these things. I have served in many paramilitary organizations as a volunteer. I believe that we have capacity in Nigeria, that we can stop these people using technology, using modern equipment, using everything within our reach. These uses we are giving that we are just afraid of casualties have only made more casualties. So we just need to be honest to ourselves. Our leaders will love you, but we are just angry because we are not doing it right. If you see us expressing anger, the best know where all of us can be governor and president. They want just one person. Our job is to see you do it right. When you do it right, we will come to this same studio and press you. But when you do it wrong, we'll sit here and complain and tell you you are not doing right. So our government have what it takes. Our situation has what it takes. The question that is begging for answer is why are they not doing it? Why are they giving some excuses that even a layman will know that these excuses are not tenable? And I bring back this rhetoric question. How could these small children in this age understand what it means to escape from these bandits? And we are telling them the areas where they escaped and they cannot condone that area and start something. Look, strategically, these children supposed not to even last one week. They're supposed to have scared these people. But it has not worked. We just keep talking because the way we think we want to deal with security is talking, talking, talking. No action. Revan Ayab, can you also speak with regards closing down schools in Kaduna? Would you agree that that should be, you know, the step that should be taken currently until, you know, this is all over? If that step is wrong, then you cannot have an option than to accept that step now because of the situation. Because if you say that step is wrong and you don't want it and no children like you now will still come back to the same well-in table. So if that step is really a step to give them time to walk out security measures, to give alternative places for schools, honestly, they have my support. Because at the moment, you just have to understand what we're all going through. So any option that will reduce these things will pray and ask God to bless that option so that it will happen. That's really sad. We, of course, hope that the traditional ruler that you mentioned, the 83-year-old, I hope that he also is set free as quickly as possible. And many of these 83 kids also find their way back home. Reverend Joseph Hyab, you need to rest. But thank you very much for joining us. And we hope to speak to you again. Thank you. We'll take a short break here on the breakfast and we'll be back. Stay with us.