 Marian Tulski is a Polish journalist and historian and one of the last living survivors of the Holocaust. For several years he lived in the ghetto of Lodz. From there he was deported to Auschwitz and later to Buchenwald. After surviving the grueling death marches, he was finally liberated at Theresienstadt in 1945. Tulski decided to stay in post-war communist Poland. As editor and journalist for the weekly Politiker, he worked towards reconciliation between the various communities. Last January, during the commemoration at Auschwitz, Tulski gave a powerful speech that made headlines across the globe. Good morning my Dutch friends, not only my Dutch friends, but mainly my Dutch friends. My name is Marian Tulski, I live in Warsaw, Poland, and English is not my native language. So do please forgive me my errors, my mistakes which I will probably have while lecturing today and maybe one explanation more. I'm a survivor of Auschwitz. Prior to it, I was sent to it because of my Jewish origin. Prior to it, I spent more than four and a half years in the ghetto of Łódź, second largest Jewish population in prior Poland, so in a way I am a witness of history. My education, I'm a historian, this is my profession, this is my education, this is my job, and I can understand that a woman, the boss of the Nexus Institute in Amsterdam, invited me to give this lecture in order not only to present you, I would say, an academic point of view, an academic research, but also to combine academic research with eye witness experience. Thank you, Pope Riemann. And now to the point. The topic is what did the victims, that means the Jews, what did the Jews know about their faith, and precisely as well, what did I know, being a boy and then after three years, what did I know about my faith? Well, I can't understand and I can guess that some of you who are listening to my lecture would be maybe even amazed and they would oppose, they would say, hey Mr. Turski, what are you saying? You knew everything, you knew everything, where Hitler was not hiding his ideas, his approach to the Jews, Hitler was a full anti-Semite and not only, he also used anti-Semitism as a tool in gaining power, in gaining, yes, this is true, the souls, the hearts, the support of people of the state. And he announced his pronunciation were public since the 20s. Everybody knew Mein Kampf, his autobiography published in millions, in millions of copies, was a kind of a Bible of Nazism and in this Bible you can find his approach to the Jews. So what are you saying? Wait, wait, you are right, but only to some extent. I will give you in a while some evidence that pre, in times before the war, even the Germans themselves did not know exactly what would be the fate of the Jews. In this meeting, that they didn't even guess a particular moment when, when there would come a sudden and violent way of annihilating the Jews. And here's my evidence, here's my proof for it, probably most of you know the famous event of what is known in German as the Kristallacht, in English it means the night of the broken glasses. It happened November the 9th, 1938. It was in a way a landmark, a milestone in German Nazi policy vis-à-vis the Jews. The 9th and the 10th November 1938, they were, for the first time in this scale, a program, a total attack on Jewish businesses, Jewish homes, Jewish synagogues, almost all the Jewish synagogues were burned down, almost all of them, 91 Jews were killed, at least 91, then the shafts were looted, it was absolutely a night of broken glasses. One of those who was the implementer of it and who in the future would become one of the executors of so-called final solution of the Jews, his name was Reinhard Heidrich, who was very close to the narrow circle of those people who decided upon German politics, Hitler and then Göring, Himmler, Goebbels, Bohrmann, maybe some other, but this was the narrow circle of the deciding people and Heidrich was very close to them, he was a favorite student, a favorite supporter, a favorite son, I would say, pupil of Hitler, in a very short time he would become probably a member of this narrow circle who ruled Nazi Germany. Imagine that this Heidrich, a day or two days after Kristallnacht, wrote in an internal memo, we have it in the archives and I'm quoting it, the process of getting rid of the Jews will take 10 years, end of the quotation. If that had been the case, it would have been, not before 1948, but it happened, South girls, well, you see, he in his imagination, it would take 10 years to get rid of the Jews, I'm calling him to get rid. What did they mean? What did they had in mind, have in mind while using the word to get rid? The Nazis don't deserve to be excused, but as a historian, I must look into the sources objectively and to be very close to the historical truth. In those days, it meant, if the Jews, it meant depriving the Jews their citizens right, the depriving the Jews, taking them away their civil rights, taking away their property, if they only agree to leave their property, their businesses in Germany, and if they want to emigrate, okay, why not? We want to have a Germany Judenfreie, this was the idea of getting rid of the Jews in those days. Well, so it would, something happened special. It would, afterwards, what will change their policy, their approach to Jews and not only to Jews. And I'm coming to the title, so if you ask me what the victims did know about their fate, first of all, we should fix when it was decided by the Germans themselves. So we have, first of all, to determine when the fate was decided, when and more precisely, when the fate, when it was decided to speed up that fate, to accelerate to sudden, violent, immediate extermination. You will find in very many books, also in some textbooks still, and it's such a great source of information, as is the Wikipedia, that this was decided in Valse, the famous conference in Valse in 1942. It is, this information is misleading. I tell you why. Not only because the participants of this conference, which took place January the 20th, 1942, were not the high, the highest rank dignitaries, German dignitaries. Only Hydrish, who was presiding the conference, he was really one of the top, from the top. Maybe closest was the boss of Gestapo, Hydrish Müller, and then rather important dignitaries, but third rank, fourth rank, vice ministers, deputies of different ministers, they were not able to make the real decisions. Second point, look, the Valse conference convened exactly January the 20th, 1942, and since December the 8th, 1941, the first gassing in the German Kulmhof was implemented. The first gassing of Gypsies and Jews from so-called Wartegau, and we should have a little bit of imagination. You cannot just have an object ready in one day. Probably it took them at least a month to prepare the place, to prepare the transport to it, and so on, so on. So no doubt that the decision was made at least before November, maybe before October 1942. Yes, Valse was important, very important, because it worked out the logistic of the so-called final solution of the extermination of the Jews, how many transports, how many cars you need, what would be the schedule, who would be responsible for the logistics, and so on, and so on, so on, so on. But it was only something to work out a decision which was the verdict which was passed at least several months earlier prior to it. When? There is no doubt that the so-called Barbarossa plan, the offensive, Hitler's offensive of Russia, against Russia, and this very cruel war, that this was a change and then combined afterwards with the Pearl Harbor and the war with the United States, this was a new milestone, this was a real milestone, the landmark in German policy. Let me quote something very important, very interesting. A week before the offensive against Russia started, one of the most important personalities of Nazi Germany, Joseph Gabels, was invited by Hitler, and this is what he wrote, what he put it down in his diary, I'm quoting. It is the entry from his diary, dates June 15, 1941. The most powerful offensive the word has ever seen, he's predicting what will happen in one week. Napoleon's story has no grounds to be repeated, the Fuhrer estimates that the whole campaign will not last longer than four months, I personally estimate that it will take us less. We are a step away from it. The pact with Russia really was sustained on our honor. The Fuhrer says that whether or not right is on our side, we must win. There is no other way for us. What we plan is in every way proper, moral, and necessary. And when we have won, who is going to ask us how we did it? End of the quotation. And now another quotation, I don't want to overload you with quotation, but still it is part of my job, because those are the sources. Several weeks later, when the offensive is developing more and more, and also they started killing the communists, the Jews, the paratroopers, and so on, by special units called the Einsatzgruppen. Here you have this following entry from Giebel's diary, I'm quoting. It is a life and death struggle between the Aryan race and the Jewish basilis. Another government, another ruler, would have left the carriage to address this question and solve it once and for all. The Fuhrer has shown himself to be the undaunted pioneer and spokesman for a radical solution, and that is precisely what the present situation demands. Praise God, there is a war and we can reach for means that we could not apply in peacetime. We must use them to the full end of the quotation. Well, I think this is, it depicts the change of their own attitude, of their own, of the Nazi's own attitude, and not by incidents. From the same time, I can quote also something important, the authorization of second run in Germany of Hermann Göring, given to Heidrich. I direct, I am quoting, I direct you to make all necessary organizational, logistical, and material preparation for total solution of the Jewish question in German zone of influence in Europe. I direct you to submit to me shortly an exhaustive plan of organizational, logistical, and material preparations preceding the achievement of the desired final solution of the Jewish question, end of the quotation. This was really a kind, he entitled, Göring entitled Heidrich to convene the van der Konferenz to look for means, for ways, how to work out the final solution. And here the result of the first year in 1941, after the beginning of the Hitler's offensive, which was June, end of June, the 41, till the end of 41, 600,000 Jews were murdered in a normal way by shooting, by executions in the Baltic States, in the former Eastern territories of Privor Poland, in Belarus, in the Ukraine. And probably you know special names of executions. It was Padirai, Ponary, near Vilnius, Lithuania, 49 in Kaunas, Lithuania, it was Rumbula in Latvia, it was Babinyar in Ukraine. And here arises the question, what we did know about the change, about this acceleration to rape it, to immediate stage phase of killing, of murder. The news about Ponary was the first Jewish Polish Jews. And I will try to have a glimpse into three circles, three great Jewish populations, first around Vilnius, second the largest population of Warsaw, and finally I will come to my town, to Łódź, where I lived and what I experienced. There were rumors about Padirai, about Ponary, and thanks to the corporation even dated for before the war, between the Jewish pioneers, Jewish scouts gathered in the other organization Hashomer, has a year, with the scout organization, a clandestine scout organization, a Polish scout organization, headed by a wonderful gentleman, a great hero, Aleksandr Kaminski, they used the nickname, the gray ranks in Polish, Szare Szeregi. There was a corporation and because the Jews were not permitted to travel, the people, the wonderful guys from the Polish scout organization, sent dedicated people, like Irena Damowicz, Henry Grabowski, to those areas and they brought the report to deliver them to the Jewish leaders. One of the leaders was, you probably know the name because he was very famous, become very famous, Istrak Tsucherman Antek and in November 1941, when the scout, the Polish scout Grabowski, reached him and reported him what happened in his native town Vilnius, he was absolutely shocked, he was absolutely shocked and in his memoirs he confessed, by the way if you will have a chance to read them, they were published also in English under the title, surplus of memory. I'm quoting, it was a great blow, that was not just epogrom, the knowledge that Ponary Panerai means death knocked me off my feet. And this is significant, said this milieu, the circle of Jewish leaders in the area of Vilnius, of Lithuania, which was before the world, Polish territory, that they, they first realized what happened. Their leader, a great personality, a great, absolutely a poet, a fighter, may be some of you know his name, Abba Kovner, he gathered the main active of the young Jewish fighters in this area of Vilnius and the night of December 31, 1941, he declared publicly to them, it was a clandestine meeting and he declared and this is what he told and friends, comrades, colleagues, we are the witness of a new stage of German policy with respect to Jews. It is the stage of immediate extermination, end of the quotation. At this moment we can say, we can state that the leaders of Vilnius, of Vilnius Jews in the end of 1941 realized that this is a new stage in German policy, that it means immediate annihilation. How was it in Warsaw? Rumors about Kaunas, about Vilnius, about some other places reached the Warsaw ghetto in the first month of 1942. But, my dear friends, you should understand that maybe I will repeat it twice or three times, people don't want to believe that something at what's wrong could happen to them. People still believe maybe it was only an incident in this place, maybe something it was a revenge in this place, maybe it was a special coup, Nazi commander, but they could not, they could not embrace in their mind that a full nation could be a goal of extermination. My very good friend who also survived of Auschwitz, maybe you know her name, Halina Birnbaum, a poet, she lives in Israel, she wrote her autobiography and she titled it The Hope Dies the Last. This is true, people so long they live, they have some hope and therefore it was so, it was so difficult, so hard to understand it, to comprehend it, but there were two facts which had to disturb this routine, this way of thinking. First, when Zuckerman arrived to the Warsaw ghetto with the news and the news were delivered by the Scouts and second, very important, as probably you know, the first gazing started, as I mentioned before, in Chelmno, which was German Kulmhof. It is a long story, I'll tell it in brief. A young Jewish boy whom we know as maybe finer, maybe winner, rather winner, who afterwards would obtain a nickname Grojnowski in order to hide himself while to fight the shelter because he was chased by the Germans, was forced to be one of those who buried the Jews being prey to it, gassed in Kulmhof. This was the first gazing, the first examination camp which was established, Kulmhof, Chelmno. He escaped, this is a long story how he escaped, deserves a film, deserves a movie, but I don't have time now to tell about it. Then he found for a one day a shelter in a nearby 20 kilometers away from the camp in a little town, Grabov. He was looking for the local chief rabbi, it was a rabbi Yakov Shulman. He told him the story and what happened, escaped further on because he was chased by the Germans and found a place, a way to come to the Warsaw ghetto and after he came to Warsaw ghetto, he was in touch with the clandestine archive in the Warsaw ghetto. Maybe you have heard about it, there was a group headed by Dr. Emmanuel Ringelblum, a wonderful historian and they established a clandestine archive in the Warsaw ghetto now because it survived, it was preserved not fully, more or less 65 percent, now it is on the list of the great treasures of mankind, of the list of UNESCO and people from this clandestine archive took an interview with this schlammic wiener, we have it in our archive, still it is in Warsaw, when you come you can see it and he gave the first testimony how the gazing in a extermination camp takes place, so what he reported was afterwards published in the clandestine in the underground press in Warsaw, so you see two ways, one way the news from Wieners delivered by the Polish scouts and it's back to German, on the other way the testimony of the escapee from the extermination camp of Kulmhof, it could change the idea of the Jews, it could, well in a way I would say yes since this testimony it was already known in Warsaw ghetto what would, what is happening to Jews but am I not exaggerating what does it mean it was known who knew it, it knew only the elite dear friends how can you, can you imagine how many copies, how many copies were distribution was distributed a clandestine newspaper 200 300 500 maybe even 1000 people people were reading it some were shocked but in general they did still did not believe maybe it happened as well but with a great population of 350,000 or 400,000 Jews would he do the same impossible, impossible this was the way of thinking in Europe in those days and therefore I tell you if somebody knew it it only knew the elite and still between even some people knew about it it was not before July 42 when really the Warsaw ghetto population realized that this is a new stage in German policy vis-à-vis the Jews the 22nd of July 1942 began the so-called we know it from textbooks the great deportation from Warsaw in two months almost 300,000 Jews were deported to Tbilinka and were given to Tbilinka when the leaders of the Jewish organization understood realize that this is beginning of the liquidation of the ghetto and of the population of the ghetto you probably have seen the film pianist of Poroski so you can imagine how it looked in those days in Warsaw so the next day all the leaders of the parties convened gather together and we're discussing what we have to do the young leaders among them Zuckerman demanded we shall go out onto the streets we the leaders we the leaders of the political parties and tell the Jews now you the overall population would be killed would be murdered we should start the resistance against the Germans and because our faith is absolutely I've heard the verdict is passed on our faith we should resist with an axe with a knife what with everything possible I remember those words the words of Zuckerman I want to see the blood on Warsaw streets before it would be the blood in Tbilinka and it is very important to understand the most absolutely decent people decent decent leaders of the Jewish community well known leaders modest with great merits I will name they by name it was the leader of the religious party Rabbi Zeshe Friedman he was one of those who opposed the young leaders I'm quoting the Lord God will not allow allow the killing of the world society if we go onto the streets everyone will die end of the quotation another great leader Zionist leader professor Schripper Yitzhak Schripper said responding to the appeal of Zuckerman of the young people I'm quoting listen war requires sacrifice maybe 50,000 will die or even 80,000 but the rest will be left if we go out onto the streets as you want they'll kill everyone end of the quotation so my dear friends how to evaluate how to appreciate this kind of thinking you cannot abstract that you have a town with families Jewish families and those people those leaders responsible for those families they didn't dare to appeal to start what they were sure would end with a mass killing sometimes it's hard to understand but as a way to understand this possibility of those people who had the old people and the kids and the families to go with no arms against the Germans doesn't make sense maybe and still nobody could imagine that there could be a plan of a total annihilation of the Jewish nation but no doubt that this was the real after the deportations this was the main stimulus for those who left alive not very many some between 40 50 55,000 maybe 60,000 who prepared the uprising and which and we know we are proud of it we are really this is sometimes called the second massada but no doubt that after the great deportation when they realize that there is no other way they decided to make the uprising and also because there were not not more old people who were murdered not young kids they're murdered single young people desperate people could afford an uprising so here we come lastly to my ghetto to the ghetto of Łódź the deportations from the Łódź ghetto started in January 1942 and this is significant till May they were deported 55,000 out of the 160,000 population of the Łódź ghetto people of course were shocked but and he'll also please do understand our way of thinking at the time there were total families deported first of all those who came from Germany from Austria from Vienna from Prague from Luxembourg and them and then local people but in the beginning because the Germans the siege people they betrayed people they were telling them you are you will go to a new large ghetto where you will get more food than you get it in Łódź and what was absolutely absolutely mostly touching the population Łódź starvation hunger listen I will give you a quotation from a famous Czech Jewish writer who was in the Warsaw in Łódź ghetto Oscar Singer he wrote his diary his memoirs he didn't survive by the way and he admitted he confessed and I'm quoting some above all Jews from the Old Reich and Vienna accept the blow with their own kind of calm many say it can't be worse than the ghetto hunger outside the ghetto can't be greater and that is the most important after all a significant proportion of the Jews sign up of their own accord they want to take advantage of the opportunity to leave the ghetto and this is the mentality of people who know that if they will stay alive they will die due to hunger due to exhaustion due to tbc so if they go maybe it will be better there was something in addition in the beginning where there was the beginning of the ghetto in 1940 really the Germans recruited some labor people labor young people to go to the west the western part of Poland it was the eastern part of the aldreich to build auto routes to build highways and it was a very very decimating people job but they some very many died but some of them returned and told yes it was absolutely unbelievable hard work but we got more food than we were used to it in the which ghetto from this point of view some people believe maybe this is also something to new jobs they have new territories in the east maybe they will take us to work there and they will feed us better because where's that it is here in the ghetto of which cannot be and so this a first a first signal of that it happened something is the atmosphere wrong took place in may why in may 17s a little community of the little ghetto not far from which 20 kilometers from which Pabianica ghetto was joined was moved from Pabianica to Łódź and they told us a story that in their ghetto was a great acute laundry in this laundry to this laundry were sent to clothes to be cleaned and they found the people in the ghetto in Pabianica they found in the pockets money from Łódź ghetto what does mean what does mean imagine that the Łódź ghetto issued its own currency well first a fake currency just to take away the good money from the Jews but there's another story but when they found it they understood that the clothes come from people who were sent in deported to Kulmhof this was the first signal that we understood where the people deported went to a second or minutes signal was in July the same year when the commander the commander of the death camp in Kulmhof sent a letter to the Łódź ghetto asking whether in this in my ghetto could be produced a meal a meal to grain bones this this was something absolutely horrible but who knew about it only those who were close to the letter those there were some rumors but people still didn't believe a meal to grain bones is it this is so inhuman people can't couldn't believe in such inhuman possibilities and then it was one month even maybe two months because the deportation stopped in May and then June and July even August were respectively calm even more there was even more food in the ghetto why now we know because 55 000 people were kicked out were went away from the ghetto and there was some little bit more food in the ghetto additional food for those who still were leaving the ghetto and a new blow and maybe the last one to understand what is our fate reached us in the beginning of September in the beginning of September September the first suddenly she Germans went into all the hospitals in the ghetto took all the people put them on tracks and deported from the ghetto four days later was announced in German it goes in a gay spirit it means a curfew and the elder the elder of the Jews the so-called sometimes he's called the king of the Jews Rumkovsky had a speech as he used to doing it at the square in front of the fireman quarters barks and i'm going now to quote this his speech at least part of it because it is really i'm out of time the ghetto has been struck a hard blow they demand what is most dear to it children and old people in my old age i am forced to stretch out my hands and to beg brothers and sisters give them to me fathers and mothers give me your children yesterday in the course of the day i was given the order to send away more than 20 000 Jews from the ghetto and if i did not they said we will do it ourselves guided not by the sword how many will be lost but how many can be saved i arrived at the conclusion that however difficult it was going to be i must carry out this difficult and bloody operation i must cut off limbs in order to save the body i have come like a robber to take from you what is dearest to your heart i tried everything i knew to get the bitter sentence cancelled i succeeded in one thing to save the children over 10 let that be our consolation our great sorrow there are many people in this ghetto who suffer tuberculosis who they are perhaps a weak side number i do not know perhaps this is a satanic plan but i cannot stop myself from proposing give me these sick people and perhaps it will be possible to save the healthy in the place i know how precious each one of the sick is in his home and particular in particularly among Jews but at the time of such decrease one must weigh up and measure who should be saved who can be saved on who may be saved i don't want to comment it this is so moving so touching so horrible it is sometimes like like reading Shakespeare yes that's something of Shakespearean spirit mood climate and i i don't doubt that if there would be a collection of the greatest speeches in history of mankind this speech should be enclosed my defense now after september 5th everybody in the ghetto of which realized that this was the new stage the new policy that our faith the verdict was passed thank you