 All right, thanks. So, hey, welcome everyone. So, I'm Timothée Arvier and I work at Red Hat in the Chorus team, mostly on Fedora Chorus. And I'll be talking here today about Fedora Kinoite, which is a new version, a new variant of Fedora that we're introducing with Fedora certified. So, let's get right into it. So, first, the question is, okay, why Fedora? Why even bother with Fedora? And then why even bother doing this at all? And then, okay, where are the apps? And the, okay, well, with everything, we'll see a little bit about the future and what we're going to do with that. So, first thing, what is Fedora Kinoite? So, Fedora Kinoite, essentially, it's a new Fedora variant, which is attached to the KDE Sieg, so the special interest group in the Fedora community. We 100% Fedora. So, nothing in Fedora Kinoite is different from Fedora. It's just Fedora, but a little bit different twist, and we'll see that coming right away. So, yeah, it's 100% Fedora RPM packages. So, it's pretty Fedora. The thing that's different, of course, we're not just building something else just for the sake of it, is that it's an immutable desktop. We like to call it an immutable desktop, not in the sense that it won't change, but that you control how it changes, which is really important, like keeping control of your computer, of course. And, of course, we're here at the academy. It's all about KDE, and this variant is featuring the KDE Plasma Desktop. The first release for Fedora Kinoite is planned for Fedora 35. So, right now, Fedora 34 is stable, and we are in the development of Fedora 35, which should be stable, something around October or something. Yeah. All right. So, why Fedora? Well, there are a couple of things here that makes Fedora interesting as a base for this project. The first one is that Fedora provides a stable and up-to-date software stack. So, we integrate a lot of things in Fedora, a lot of open source projects, fresh and a bit stable open source projects. So, we do a lot of work on Wayland. We have Winn and Enable by default, Pipeware and Enable by default in Fedora 34, SystemD user sessions too, in KDE, and all of that comes tested and baked into the image by default. With KDE, more KDE focused, we always try, oops, it's still working. Oh, sorry. Yeah. We always try to follow KDE packaging, following KDE packaging, the latest release of KDE packaging, and we try to go upstream first usually. So, we try to make sure that everything of ashes is upstream first and that nothing is like only carry-by-house. We always try to keep it upstream. I'm sorry. I'm having a bit of trouble. I hope you can all see, still see me, and hear me. That should be fine. All right. So, come on. All right. I'll have to ask you for change slides for why, but that should be fine. All right. So, yeah, we upstream first, and we are an active special interest group. So, we have weekly meetings on Monday, around 1800, and we're very active. All right. So, what makes a difference? So, it's a little bit different from the KDE spin, the KDE spin, because it's based on RPM history. So, it's a different technology to manage your system. And essentially, the idea is that instead of managing single packages, you manage an image for your operating system, and you move from one version to the other when you update. It's the same technology I choose in Fedora Core S, for example, Fedora IoT and Fedora Silver View 2. So, that's RPM history for managing the system. And then, there's flatback that you use to manage applications. So, the basics about flatback is that instead of installing applications as packages, you install them as different packages, as flatbacks, and they can come from different sources. So, you don't have to add them from your distribution. You can add them from something else. They could even be preparatory or provided by all the vendors. And that's not an issue at all. And finally, when you've got all that, sometimes you have to do the development, you want to have command line tools, and things like that. And everything on Fedora Act Unite is using containers, essentially. So, to manage containers, we use Spotman, which is a container manager, which is very well suited for command line tools. All right. And, well, with all that said, the first variant, this kind of variant that was introduced in Fedora was Fedora Silver View. And essentially, we are really close siblings of Fedora Silver View because we use a lot of the same technologies. We share a lot of them. Okay. So, what does it look like? Well, essentially, it just looks like any regular caddy desktop. Like, if you just booted a Fedora QD spin and you compare it to a Fedora QD spin, it's essentially the same. It looks exactly the same because it's the same packages, same software, same form of version. Nothing changes except maybe a logo. We don't have a logo yet, but in the next coming week, maybe we'll have a new logo. And that will be the only difference, essentially, if you look just at the cover at the top. So, here it is. It's a Fedora certified that I freshly booted, recently booted. And you just install apps using Discover, just like on regular QD. It's just like all the only apps, well, mostly the only apps that you can install are Flatbacks. And you've got the same menu, the same fine managers and everything, same browser. Nothing changes here. All right. So, what's the current status of this initiative? Well, the official support is still in progress. Well, it's working. We already have it's planned for Fedora certified, the first release. You can track all that on the link here. We already have so official development builds. So, in Fedora, we call that Rohai, the development branch, which is like continuing development. And then it gets branched for each release. So, in October, or before October, it will be branched for Fedora certified. And then we will get our first stable release of Fedora Kinoite. So, right now it's Rohai, so it's development builds, but it's working. And I also produce an official build. So, I produce an official stable build for Fedora 34, the current stable branch. The only difference between the Fedora 35 builds and the 34 builds is that I do the builds for Fedora 34. So, it's not signed by Fedora key. And it's not signed. It's not built on Fedora infrastructure. It's built on my server, essentially. But it's still the same content. All right. So, what's the goal behind all that? And what do we want to do behind Fedora Kinoite and everything like that? Well, the main thing is one to create a really easy experience for users, which I think is like the top one priority. If you don't have users, it's not worthy of making everything, well, most things are not. Even if it's just you, but yeah, like we want to create a good experience for users. So, the first one is we use RPMS3 to manage a system and make system updates essentially a null event. The idea is that when you update RPMS3, it updates in the background. So, you don't change your system live. It creates a new version of the system. And then you reboot into it. And that's the base idea because, essentially, you don't have to wait for this to apply. You don't have to wait for your computer to update before you boot or at the shutdown. You just do like the bits live on the system. And it will only take place when you reboot. And you just reboot into a new version. The base itself is also set as like one single consistent image. So, you don't get like half things installed or half things misconfigured. It's just either installed or not installed at all. It's a stomach. It's just one or the other. You can get mixed. And if for whatever reasons you reboot into the new version, and there's a bug, like, I don't know, there's not your bug or graphics bug. And you just want to go back because it's, yeah, it's your day. You don't, like, you have things to do. You just go back to the previous version. Then that's easy. You just reboot into the previous version. It's always there. And you keep doing the work while you try to figure out why the bug is there, or report the bug or something like that. So, yeah, that's the system. And our payment stream makes managing the system really powerful. And that's the most of it. Then there's flatbacks. And when you use flatbacks, you get a lot of advantages right out of the box with the way flatbacks work. So the main idea is that you can install any big applications just like on their own. You don't need to update anything on the system to make them work. All the life cycles of the application is tied to the flatbacks. And that's it. There's nothing like need to system. And it makes it really easy to update application, install new ones without even bothering whether or not it will pull any libraries if there will be inconsistencies or conflicts or anything. That's never going to happen with flatbacks. It's either they're working or not there. And that's fine. So, yeah, it makes applications updates and changes completely independent of system updates, completely independent of the kernel, the changes, and everything on the desktop. We have two main sources of applications with flatbacks. Right now, we have which has mixed free and up to software and property software. And we also have a round set of flatbacks built on federal infrastructure, which we only contains free and up to software. And finally, the last piece here that makes it a great experience is toolbox. So the idea is you have a new multiple systems. So you don't, you don't, well, it's not always practical to install a lot of key tools or command line tools or things like that on the systems. And what you want to do is do most of that inside containers. And toolbox is the best way to make that available. And it also instantaneously makes all the RPM packages from Fedora available to you directly and free of cost really easy to use. And you can also use toolbox with all the distributions. So essentially, you get all the software that is packaged everywhere inside every single distribution, using toolbox, and you can run them as graphical application on your desktop. And it will work essentially in most cases. So yeah, that's like the last result thing, but that usually work for most things. All right. So that's like the basic thing. We want to make the user experience great, great for updates, great for install access to software. You don't get to missing anything. And at the same time, you get all the benefits of easy updates, never, never having fear that something would break if you update. So then, all right, we have users, but most of the times we, we also try sometimes even users try and do and test things. And we sometimes want to, as developer, ship some updated software to users for them to test. And that's something that's really easy to do by, to do with the same technology. So the main thing is thanks to our PM3, you can actually give updates to your users and have them try them just like one shot or thing like that. And then I let them go back to the stable versions. And that's really easy. That's something that it's really hard to do with classic package managers. And that's really to do with our PM3. So you give it, you, you don't give up stability. And you, you, you keep everything, you keep everything working while testing a new version, for example. And that's what you get with our PM3. You keeps everything as is in the sense that you get, you keep all your files, you keep all those software, all the flatbacks out there, they're still stable versions, you just send the system. And that's it. And you can always roll back if you got any issues. If you want also, if you're a developer, you might be interested. Well, if you're a testing, a tester, you might also be interesting to test new flatback, new versions of flatback tabs. And that's something that's really easy to do with flatback too, because you can have multiple versions of the same application installed at the same time. And that's not an issue at all with flatbacks. You can switch between versions easily and, and install multiple versions in parallel. So you can always get the testing versions in the stable version. So if any issue comes back, you can just start the test, the stable one, and that's it. Then, yeah, and nothing that's great that with flatback, it's really easy to produce flatbacks from, from like PR or GitHub, GitHub PRs, for example, or, or any, any kind of PR, essentially. And for, so for example, you could give like, create a flatback repo, create a flatback change, just one, for one, for one fix and have it sent to users. And then the users can try this and like, make sure that by the day that the change is correct. And then you can manage the code. So I can put a link to GitHub action, because it's a quick way to, to, to try to, to try and create flatbacks from, from that. Right. And finally, we have developers. So if you are building on kitty, working on kitty, either the Plasma desktop itself or any applications, this is also a great opportunity for you because our industry makes you keep, keeps you in control of what's changing on system. So it enables control chance. I like to say it's immutable, but you have control over what changes in the system. You can replace any RPM on the system. So you can replace any component. If you want to have some, so for example, fix this system D, you could replace that and reboot your system and make sure that everything work. If, for example, you're working on fixing things there. And, and the interaction basically somewhere. And, but you could replace any part of Plasma desktop and, and do the same. You can replace that live too. So you could apply the change like restart your session. And that's it. You're good to go. There's no constraints there. It's just essentially, there are a lot of tools to make that available to still for developers. So it's immutable, but you still get to change it. It just you have full control of all it changes. And for whatever reasons, yeah, it's development from time we made mistakes. If you want to go back to the version that's stable, that should be working, then you can do that. You can either revert that change that you've made live, or if your system crashed, for example, if any, if you had an issue, if you just reboot, you just go back to the stable version. And that's it. So there's no rolling back packages, changing or having broken system. Essentially, you never in a broken state. It's either working or you just go back to previous version that should be working. And, and for flatbacks, it's a little bit of the same essentially. So our industry is just for the system and flatbacks. In fact, you can have any environment, any frameworks, any version of Python, or any version of whatever you want installed, and any framework, and you will have that independently of what's installed in system. So you don't get to, you don't have any conflicts of whatever when you, when you're developing for, in flatbacks, because you did, you just get libraries from the firmware, for example, if you have any application, and you don't worry about the conflicts about in a system or user missing dependencies, something like that, because everything is packaged and will be shipped as is. So yeah, it's really liberating to have that in fact, and it makes it really powerful. All right. So, okay, so it's, we want to make a great experience for users, testers, developers. So, okay, well, in Federal Recreate Night, do we actually have applications? Because for most of the operating system, we need both, we need like, the system and we need applications, of course. Well, the story here is still in progress. So essentially, we already have flatbacks in Federal Recreate. So in one can write, you install most of the applications as flatbacks, and you already, you can already install most of the applications that are available as flatbacks from Fedora. So right now, we have a good selections, but unfortunately, we don't have the applications yet in Fedora, because we're still missing some couple of tricks to make them work. It's still in progress. You can follow the status here in the issue. And it's planned for Fedora 35. I'll try to make that happen for Fedora 35, with the Fedora KineWide 3Ds, of course. The main idea here is that once we'll get all the little things tweaked and working, we'll get all the already packaged applications from Fedora, KineWide applications in Fedora, on KineWide, essentially for free. So we'll get a lot of them straight out of the box, working. The main thing to remember is that they will be the same version as the one package in Fedora, because essentially they will, even though they're not strictly built from RPMs, it's the same recipe. So you will get flatbacks that are essentially really looking closely alike to the RPMs once. And it's always granted to be free in Opposite Software, because Fedora is about free in Opposite Software. But then in the meantime, it's good. We already have a lot of KineWide applications available on Flathub. So on Flathub, you get a ton of applications. I don't even remember the name, the count of the current number of applications available on Flathub. If it's high, you'll get either, well, a lot of them. And we quickly expanded the list of KineWide applications available on Flathub. You can search for all the KineWide applications there. And we try to follow all with the latest upstream release. So they get updated really, really, really fast when the releases are made. Essentially, it's on the day or the next day. And Flathub is a great place to do a lot of things. It's a great place to fix applications and work with upstream PDE application developers to fix the application that sometimes don't really work well with the flatbacks unboxing model. So some latest changes are needed to make them really work pretty, I would say. And yeah, there's a lot of small tasks that are easy to get started on that are there for packaging, either existing applications or to fixing some display issues for some or things like that. So if you look at Flathub, right now we have like a ton of apps on Flathub. This is just like the landing page with some popular applications. So it's mixed. There's both on Flathub free and up-and-down software and proprietary software. So you get to pick which one you want to install, but it's just to be aware of that. And if you search for all.kid, you'll get applications, which are, of course, free and up-and-down software, but they may come with additional specific software that's sometimes restricted in some places, such as FFM Bank or things like that, for video codecs or audio codecs. All right, so I'm good on time. So let's see what's the fuel or Federaq noise. So the idea is, okay, that's what's going to happen in Federaq 35. We're really close to be too close at that because I'll show you a running Federaq in the right instance just after that. But what's coming next? So essentially, the plans for the future is that we want to be the best platform to try the next version of KDE. So either KDE plus desktop or the KDE apps, we want to make sure that users, developers, testers, everybody can feel safe like testing the next version of those packages, those applications, easily using Kinoite, while at the same time keeping working in stable desktop environment. That's like so cool. So the first one is we want to make the Plasma beta releases available. So right now, Federaq, on the right branch, we always take the latest beta as the latest stable versions. But the stable version will always be a little bit behind, of course. So yeah, we want to make those available in a different way. And we want to also make KDE applications like pre-release or lightly flat packs of KDE applications easily available to users there. So that's both work like in Federaq and work upstream too. So we want to work with upstream here to make sure that everything done upstream to make application work in flat packs will be working well. So on the, there's already upstream KDE testing versions of, nightly versions of KDE applications. So that's good. And it's, I would say just need a little bit of polish to make it work well. But the main thing here, so for, on the Federaq, you know, outside is we is bringing to users like beta versions of KDE Plasma desktop really soon, really, really fast to, for testers on stable branches. And this is what we want to do in the short term. So have multiple different streams. So right now we'll, we will have essentially a different stream for each branch version of Federaq. So Federaq 34, Federaq 35, and 36 coming in next in six months. And what we want to add is essentially a new versions that will be Federaq stable. So the current stable version plus on top like the beta versions of the KDE Plasma desktop. So well, you will get that really strong solid stable foundation like system D, the kernel, Mesa, the graphic stacks and everything Firefox. And then on top you will get like the next the beta Plasma desktop available or the nightly Plasma desktop if there's no beta. And you can just try that. And so essentially you don't, you don't, you kind of, you don't have to fear that for example, there's a bug somewhere in the, in the fast system driver in the kernel in this different version because it's still a stable kernel. You're just using like the nightly Plasma desktop. So if things crash, usually it's just your system question and not everything on the system. And that should be fine. So yeah, that's like what we want to create like this specific version that makes it really easy for users to taste the latest Plasma release on a very strong stable version of the system. And I think that's something that does not really exist today. And yeah, we, we want also to make sure that everything gets tested before it gets released. So right now it's, we need a bit of mix because we do testing, but sometimes things go to, go to users and we still have some, some, some part missing around testing and we want to improve the testing here. Yeah. And essentially that's it for, for the, for the main thing we want to bring. And that's a big one because like enabling users to easily test the next versions is like something without having to create veteran machines, create, have a new laptop on the side to do the testing, but like actually do the testing live is a big thing. All right. So here's the like short summary of everything. Well, we still don't have a logo. It's still in progress. There's an issue to track here. I'll share the slide somewhere. Oh, the slide should be shared somewhere. And yeah, if you want to join us for and help us do on that journey, we're working essentially in the Fedora QE SIG and we're working closely with upstream. We meet every week on Monday. Usually we are very, very friendly bunch. So feel free to join, feel free to join. And yeah, you can try it right now. Official development builds of Fedora QNUite. All the interestings are there. It's on the Fedora. It's on the Fedora infrastructure. And if you want to try several versions of Fedora QNUite, so an official one, non-official one, the one that builds myself, you can go ahead and try in this link of the Fedora magazine article. And yeah, I think that's time for a little bit of a demo. So let's see if this works. I think I'm good on time. I still have five minutes, something. And I can't hear anything, so because probably I need to fix my sound. Okay, so demo. Hey, Tim, I think can I offer any help? Yeah, I'm trying to share a window. I'll have to switch presenter to another brother. Should be fine. Okay, joining back. Can you switch presenter mode on the new one session here? I have an audio please. Thank you. Great. I'll take the first questions if we have one right now. Well, I tried to figure out how to share things here. Sure thing. So it looks like we have a couple. The first question is when will we get Kino for Plasma Mobile? I don't think to be, oh, do you hear me? Sorry. Oh, my bad. Sorry. I'm back. Okay. Wow. Our first question is when will we get Kino for Plasma Mobile? Yeah, this is planned. This will come when we have all the Plasma Mobile application and changes a little bit of tricks into Fedora. I think this package in progress for that. The other question we have is are you using Keynote as your usual operating system? If not, what would be missing? So yeah, I am using Keynote on my main laptop and planning to switch my second computer to it when it's released in Fedora. Awesome. And we offer any help helping to get that demo up? I'll switch brother again. Okay. Could you, yeah, not on the other one, please. Sorry. Sorry. It's a little bit of a mess because, yeah, one should be better. I'll try and resize that so that we get only the most interesting part on the screen. And yeah, so this is essentially Fedora Keynote. It's not squared, but yeah, that's twisted. Strange. And that's extra weird. Yeah. All right. So it's just a regular key desktop. Well, let's forget about that. I'll share something else. I actually share my laptop, which is running Fedora Keynote. So yeah, here it's my laptop. And I'm running Fedora 34. So it's the official version of Fedora Keynote. And yeah, so you can see here I have two versions running. I have two versions installed. So I always, at all times, we usually have two versions still in system. So the first one here is the version I'm currently running. It's marked by a small dot on the side here. And I have some packages installed on top of this version. So we have Chromium, have Chrome, each job and thing like that. And there's a second versions underneath, which is the previous version that I had built before. So it's smaller from last week, and this one is from two weeks ago. And yeah, I could just go back to the previous versions if there's any bug in this current version. And I'll do a build like on Monday, something, and I'll simply update the new one there. So that's essentially RPMS3 that you manage your system. And you have one image with all the components, the KDE desktop and thing that inside. And then you get flatbacks. So if you go and try to look at flatbacks, I have here a lot of flatbacks installed. So I have flatbodies, so proprietary apps. And at the same time, I have inkscape, for example, open source applications and some QD applications there that are installed from Fathub. So if I launch Dolphin, it will run. Yeah, I need this to do QD Dolphin. Oh, I have a Dolphin installed. Yeah, I have Dolphin installed. It's just with a small d. Yeah, so essentially, when I run Dolphin here, it's Dolphin run as a flatback. So it's the latest version of Dolphin, even though I don't have this version on my system because here we're running like 21, 21, 4, 4, 2. And if I run the system Dolphin, so the one that's currently in my system, it's a little bit behind because we have not updated the version in Federal 34 yet. So I can run both. Actually, I can start the Dolphin, the classic Dolphin 1, and it's just fine. I'll have the version from the system and the one at the flatback here at the same time. And they just do absolutely the same because essentially, the integration is very good with flatbacks and you don't get to see much differences there. And we've got a lot of other applications. We've got some, the calculator, the image viewer, it's already there, the extractor, and yeah. And classic ones like Libreface, Firefox, Thunderbird, and things like that. Yeah, I don't know if, what should I show you on the desktop here? Yeah, essentially, it's Fedora and it's a kitty desktop, so there's not much to show because it's basically behaving in the same way. So right now it's called Sivaboo, but this is just like a peer-to-peer version. And yeah, and if, if I was running the override version, you will get the exact latest. We're right now in the override, we are using the Fedora 2522, the Fedora, the KDE 522 releases that we have 2521, the latest one built and available that will be shipped to Fedora 34 in the coming weeks. All right, do we have any questions left? All right, it seems we have a couple. Does KDE apps come from Flat Hub by default or from Fedora Flat Pack remotes? By default, it's only Fedora, because we want to make sure that only free-in-episode software is available by default, and then you can have Flat Hub and get anything from Flat Hub. All right. The question I see is, how do you handle things like the, I'm just going to spell this out, NVidia driver? Oh yeah, NVidia driver. So you can get that installed easily. It's, it's, it's working now, it's been working for a couple of phases. You can get that installed on top of the image, and it will be essentially, it will rebuild the, the, the kernel driver for every new version to deploy. And yeah, that's, that's working. I don't have one in VG card right now, but I did testing and it works. Great. Well, thank you. Yeah, thank you. I hate to say it, but that is the end of our time. And thank you so much for being here and presenting. Thanks. Thanks, please feel free to jump back in the chats and, and chat away, answer any more questions that come up. Thanks. Thanks. Have a great rest of the day.