 All right, rightly said it we are live and welcome back. This is why in the morning and I'm Brian Sankoa You can find me at Brian Sankoa one or one and that is in our socials and as well our socials mine House is at Y254 at Y254 channel underscore on Instagram with the hashtag or in the morning and then also Thursday vibes That's where we can actually interact with us including tiktok. Yes, we are on tiktok at Y254 channel By the way a window follow. We'll be having amazing tiktoks being posted and speaking of tiktok or tiktok on that note We are going to talk about matter software engineering and exactly what happens In the front end and the same time in the back end, you know We are on social media at least at least half of the mill millennials if not all are on at least on our social media A very specific social media and that includes Facebook Instagram Twitter and whatnot But what exactly happened before these apps come into fruition? So you are going to actually delve into that and get to understand the science behind all these apps that we love using Each and every time and the joining us in this interesting conversation is none other than Maxwell or Ching who's a software Engineer and he has a lot to actually tell us today and it really come to it. First of all, good morning and welcome Morning. All right. So tell us briefly who you are and what how exactly you got into this space and what exactly happens in there Good morning to you. My name is Mark. So I'm a software engineer and a co-founder of v-share here Basically my journey started after Joining high school When I joined high school, you know, when you get to join a school, you're new to the environment So there are a lot different subjects that somebody can take. So When I joined there and I my first lesson in computer studies, I Enjoyed that first lesson and for me that was, you know, like the Go for me. So I Started, you know, getting interested to know about what happens in the software industry I started reading more. I could even read books beyond my class, you know Getting to know what happens like in the future. So I will interact with you. Yeah, I interact with form for books so basically the interest kept growing and I went on to, you know, do it to the form for level and after from for The path was clear to me. Software engineering was the go either I was going to do computer science or software engineering So and that's how I found myself in the field. All right. Good. That's really an interesting story Because, you know, most of us have been always been pushed to do concepts that should please Our guardians, but I'm glad you followed your passion and you actually knew yourself Like you had some sort of identity before you chose this which I feel like is going to go on well and end up What for you? So I really like to know like what is the difference between an IT export and a software engineer? A lot of people say I will say I'm a funny IT. I'm only software engineer And it's really confusing for somebody who has a very shallow Knowledge of this profession Like if you could exactly paint for us a picture if I told us there are different two things or is the same something? Yeah, basically it's They're close. So I'll say like, you know, with software engineering is somebody who has undertaken You know, you've learned the principles you've learned at the procedures of on how to, you know To create an application or a product that will shape the future or you know help The back end users on how to, you know, make their life Simple again when you look at it personnel The difference is you you I can't be an IT personnel But it depends my good with that, you know creating softwares am I good with coding? So it personnel mostly it's used to refer to people, you know, who can ensure Uh, technological operations in an organization are running fluently without touching a code or involving themselves in You know creating something or like a software. So you're just there in organization to make sure that their technological operations are running fluently All right in your description you say you're passionate about Developing with a strong focus on back-end engineering If you could explain to that to our view what exactly that means We're really interested to know what exactly is that Yeah, so back-end engineering is uh, basically, you know Creating api's that are Please when you mention any abbreviation Because here we are in a class So api's application programming interfaces. Um, so when I say back-end, it's like this newsroom We are here. We are on the front end, but there are some guys who are making sure we are live And people can see us at the back end. So now in a software engineering So in a software engineering world, it means When you log into a website, how you log in when you're being told like your password is wrong It means somebody worked on the back end to ensure that you have to provide the right credentials to do that So, you know, you focus on creating web servers and Integrating databases on these web servers to make sure that application is running smoothly And yeah, the application is secure. So that is what you call bit. Uh, that is basically what is back-end engineering is Interesting because it has given me and it has given me Actually a vision on how to how we use social media each and all the time And and and I'd really like to come to that example that I had mentioned of tiktok Big band in britain and usa, but you'll tell us before we go there. Tell us what are some of the examples of that software engineering some of the examples that Are in that area Before we get into using social media Data privacy and whatnot some of the examples of software engineering. Uh, maybe you could expand more Like what what let's let me just say like now. What what what is the fruit of software engineering? Oh, yeah, so again software engineering is you know, uh, it's a day-to-day activity of software engineers to try and Create More applications On all solutions that can make human life easier, you know, there are repetitive tasks that Used to be done manually by human being or some things used to involve human intervention So when software engineering comes in it tries to leverage, you know to try to create applications that can Automate these repetitive tasks to avoid human intervention So instead of you focusing on doing this maybe you can move you to another department because now this one is being Done by a software. So, you know, you find collaboration Productivity is very high in such places where they use Software as to you know to do their daily operations, especially in our organization. All right. Good now Like I mentioned before everybody's on tip not everybody though. Yeah, please But everybody's a millennial at least there's half of our millennials who are I believe you're also millennial. We are on social media We are using apps that have been developed Which I feel like You are among the people that can develop an app So what exactly happens for an app before it comes to fruition? And then now it has people over 10 billion people using the app all over the world If you can paint for us a picture using maybe tiktok as an example or any other that will pop up in your explanation Yeah, so The process of creating an application, you know, it's it has to start from an idea, you know Uh, like you see tiktok or maybe let's start from Okay, let me use tiktok. So tiktok was somebody's idea. You know, somebody sat down and thought of Why can't I come up with a social media where you know, uh, people can showcase what they do or they like So that was an idea. So he shared it with you know a group And this way now it involves information gathering. So after ideation you have to gather the information So that is the second step after you gather the information, you know When you're gathering information you're getting the feedback from you know, uh, from real users. Okay, we like it Many people will have you know opinions on it. So after you do that again Now you plan on how you want to to do it and then you design now you design the platform now. That's where Uh, you find interfaces. So somebody's saying I think we should have these buttons on the lower side I think we should only have home button You know user button. So after design is now where you construct or you code Now you create the application It's after creation is where it goes to test and maintenance Once it has passed the test and you know the creating team or Uh, the software engineering team feels like this is ready and this is good And then they release it on the market and that's where now maintenance starts So, you know, when you release the software into the market, you get feedback from the users So it's this feedback that the organization that came up with the application Now they have to be very responsive on this feedback to help the application to remain To be adaptive to the technological change and user needs change. So, yeah, that's basically Interesting interesting. I'm trying to to really think I was reading somewhere of You know the ideas are skipped. What I was saying Instagram is gallery like mainly for photos and videos It's a gallery platform and then Twitter is text But it's like both text and gallery because you have to use Infographics and let's say still photos even videos as well. So at what point do you uh, do you say that this is an app That's suitable for like official users only and this one is a is like for everyone anyone who can do anything Can even including adults and I'm also interesting to know how like apps like only funds Where now people are there to just showcase Crazy things but crazy in a good way because crazy to someone could be good and crazy to another person could mean amazing So, uh, how do you draw the line between these apps and say this one is for disabled people This one is for everyone and this one is for people who can't do this and that I believe that is interface friendly Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, again as I said earlier when you're creating a software is it has to start from the ideation point So what's the idea at the at the point of you know thinking like I want to venture into Software engineering market or you know product market creating solutions that can help people to You know for entertainment to Automate their work to help them grow in organization So at that first point is when Uh, so you have to decide that this application. I think it's for children. This application. I think who are the target audience That's where it comes in your target audience When you release your application Automatically when you start marketing it it will be suitable for you know, I'll say that this application is suitable for children So It begins at the first point. So it's not something that the market will decide later It's you who is like the the original idea like I'm creating this app for disabled people Exactly and and and and now when it comes to even using the platforms how user how user safe Are the amps in terms of data management, which I believe is a very big issue worldwide when it comes to Digital space including us Africans. Uh, we are being told we've seen videos of us genius being sold to china People are speaking in a certain language that are interpreted to be saying different things How safe is it and what are some of the laws that you know are there to regulate that which I feel like it Needs an international focusing like we need to understand Privacy of our data and then you will talk about the legal implications as well Because I understand you have something amazing that you developed as well in that line. So you will tell us So basically uh again, uh, that protection is a very big issue It's a very major issue when it comes to creating cloud applications or yeah, so any software So you as a company Now again, this is a groundwork. This is a groundwork that you have to do as a company, you know, you have to lay your Security protocols before creating such an application because you know once you put this application on the on the internet And with the evolving technology, you know, you have to be very because every day hackers keep getting smart So if you don't lay your security protocols at the beginning or when you're creating the application then generally Uh in the in the future you might be hot and you see yeah, the repercussions are very severe and There's no going once you get attacked Online, you know, you've ruined your customer Relations with the organization. So Again, it's something that has to be looked Before even Releasing the software. How is our security measures? What should we do to protect? Somebody online or somebody from getting out when using our application online. Yeah I remember those was it CNN's website or it should have been a talk show's website that was hacked. Yeah, and then people said very Not so good What what do we call that like when our soft when our website is hacked and then The later on it's found out that somebody from another country tried to invade it and attacked it You know, we call it an attack now attacked the website and thank you Website you go down to to bs. Do you mean? Yeah, what usually happens? Yeah, that that is what we call a didos attack denial of uh, you know service attack So your website is online and then somebody With malicious intention just Takes it down So for you when when your customers are trying to log in they're being told like the website is down But in real sense or unavailable. Yeah or unavailable. So but in real sense, it's not your you know, maybe you're not It's not your software engineering team that is making Any updates or any changes Somebody who attacked you. So yeah, that's what it's called. It's like an invader a bug Anyway, because we show you a scary story in a virus. Oh, come on virus But I please explain explain on that one before we move to the next point. What exactly is a virus? I must get the flesh on you make your a virus. Oh, I link this new cable because in me uncle says is in me uncle On a virus. Oh, so you need any flash. What exactly is that for somebody who doesn't understand the technicalities of the back end? So virus is uh, it's like It's a malware. Yeah, it's a malware. It's like a it's like a worm That attaches itself on your on your data. So, you know, uh, your flash drive was clean and then Maybe my computer is having some Worms or malwares once you inject it, you know, this thing it's it's created by someone So and somebody who created it. It means He coded it very well in a way that If it sees an end if it sees any, you know, external drive Injected in it can just attach itself on the file without knowing So when you copy files from my computer and they were, you know, affected by this malware already So you carry it with your flash drive and that's how you know This flash drive you go and insert it another computer and slowly by slowly you are gets infected. Yeah my virus Yeah, it looks like body to body or human to human and without no less switch gears Kidogo, what are some of the regulations when it comes to data privacy management? Are there any principles maybe and if at all are there possible solutions and you as a software engineer Have you tried to maybe look for a specific market? And what are some of the let's say some of the things you've created to actually fill that gap in terms of legal the legal aspect and What happens in that area? Especially when it comes to using also social media Yeah, again with social media When you're creating such a platform where it needs or requires user information that is going extra So, you know with applications that needs to Require or have access to your phone book have access to your messaging You know, it's weird why an application would have access to your message. So, you know, I think They are The organization, you know, they have to be in conjunction with the with the legal Or with the judicial system or maybe the data protection act Yeah, yeah to ensure that these user data that you're about to you know to Get how are you protecting it? Like, uh, how is this person safe online? How is this person's data safe with your application? What are the measures that your organization is taking to ensure that, you know, we cannot have a breach of data where Somebody's sensitive information was posted online. It's because our organization was breached What are the measures you take when you you are when you are the legal the legal When you take when you are Organization is breached when there's a data breach. So yeah, and on that note I had asked you you're forgetting or what have you created yourself to fill in that gap to solve that problem Are right now we've not ventured into any data protection software You had mentioned ish area. Yeah. So ish area is basically As I said earlier ish area is a is a legal software Yeah, it's an easy to use Law firm management software. So basically what we're doing is we are providing A software to law firms to help them manage their daily their daily today Operations in a in a in a firm. So, you know, instead of law firms focusing on How they can, you know handle their clients data how they can store these files that they receive paperwork We migrate them to you know digitally so We only wanted to focus on client. Yeah, it's for you to, you know, deliver better services and To the clients instead of focusing on how am I going to protect this data? So ish area is a cloud application software All right, so it can be downloaded or somewhere at the moment. Is it existing as an app or as a website? It's a website. So it exists online. It's a web application It's a software service, which means we can work with many law firms just using one application interface, so Maybe you can check it, but you work and people access it So when you go to our landing page ish area.co.ke You'll get us there. You will see the services we offer Yeah Before we we we move away from that. I'm also interested to know like why exactly did you choose that? The law firms or why did you target law firms? Maybe it was there a need or a gap that you so I'm a problem that you so if I create this then I'm solving this menace and have you was it from a personal experience or from a professional experience Do you see it happening everywhere in Kenya? So you you said now I'm going to create something that will solve this issue Yeah, so basically back in 2020 I think that's when the corona pandemic struck us So, you know, uh, there have been changes in the legal Using, you know the legal system of Kenya. Uh, there have been these reforms that uh, they've been doing Over the past, you know, two years. So there's this new Change that they recently did. It's a technological technological change. They're trying to modernize law courts where They've introduced a filing where clients or, you know Advocates can file a case and you know access court documents online And we felt like, you know, this was done to help law courts, but You see the law firms were left out and yet they are in the Legal space again So we thought of a way how can we, you know, help law firms to move from manual paperwork To, you know, going digitally. Yeah, so that's where uh, so sharia is basically we We are four of us so one of our friend actually did law and You know, when it come when it came to creating the software It was our major lead because uh, he would guide us Yeah, combine the brakes software and tech. I mean tech and law and law. So, uh We saw the gap and we thought of I think we can do a great thing in the illegal tech space We can create a software that can help even law firms to go digital Yeah I don't know if you can be able to answer this What are some of the digital laws that are there from your experience that you'd say if somebody It also is especially regarding to data privacy Like you say if somebody like for us at why we are we want to defend ourselves against somebody who was just attacked us And they're trying to use something from our socials to you know, take us to court What is that one line we can use and to not be gave Not to stop at an ombi according to the constitution Chapter blah blah blah blah the digital Says Yeah, so basically again You know, this is a legal matter and um from my expertise More for software guys, but I'll I'll try to put it this way Any organization that is dealing with A software that you know has to acquire user data and you are as organization. You are dealing with variance sensitive and Private information of your users Again, I think you're required to have like Let me say a law firm, you know, not a law firm, but a lawsuit. Is it lawsuit or yeah lawsuit? Yeah, exactly people who are there to ready to defend you in such matters arise So, yeah, that's the first measure you can take making sure that you're being protected by one of the Your law firms in your country. Yeah, which which is good to always have a lawyer. Yeah, even if it's a lawyer friend Yeah That there's there's something called commercial law and even entertainment law Like it's everything it even applies to adult content I show it and it's something that a lot of people are not aware even how to be safe in the digital space And I think you'll answer that at some point, but let's switch gears to matters ai Which is an interesting topic and I had mentioned apps like Chat gpt which are now trending and a lot of people are trying to understand He chat gpt in a mini by the way, I don't know if you have a digital Smartphone digital really if you have a smartphone in short a point or two on the late chat gpt In a mansion in one as a country. There's a queen at your maker now So we tell us what how ai has evolved to a place now We can easily do things without even having to use human force or human labor to just like we have things happening magically and I love the fact that this chart gpt gives you things in less than Two three seconds as well before that talk about coding will come to that. Don't worry talk about coding Is it a must for you to be a coder to be in this space and what exactly is coding? Yeah, so coding is like like I've said before like After you design, you know design is like this room This room somebody can tell me to create a website how this room looks like so when you design You just draw it something like you're drawing on paper. So now when these structures are standing here Now this is what we call the aftermath of coding the design for the design So coding is basically, you know constructing that software to make it Use usable by somebody, you know, somebody can interact with the application and Actually do one or two on it. So yeah, that's what coding do. So you create the software after the design So to be in tech space, do you need to be a coder? No, you don't need to be a coder There are a lot of things that you can venture in you can decide to be a tech for me. I want to be a technical writer You know, yeah, I just want to You can also you can still be in the tech space by just, you know interviewing What do you call them? Uh tech startup founders or any uh startup founders? Yeah There's so many ways to be in tech. So you don't need uh to be specifically to be You know a dev or a coder Yeah, which is interesting because I have a very close friend who's Very deep into coding and uh, I we interact sometimes and the things he tells me He mentions a lot of lcd You had mentioned of java script and I go and I read about them like brav not ready for this kind of lingo It's like low, you know, the the jargon is too heavy like he must be very You know Mentally a bit now. I'll talk about AI that I had mentioned before Including chat gpt. What what exactly is it? Yeah, so chat gpt is uh, you know, it's a Very smart intelligent board. So chat gpt is done for chat generative pre-trained performance. So It's a chat board that human can interact. It's it's an interactive chat board. So you post your questions B o t Please explain bot because in terms of forexp, you're gonna come in a boat as in a backfire Yeah, so boat is basically, you know, something that can Interact with a human or you know, you can give it instructions and it Performs the action. So is it like a command a computer command? Yeah, but for chat gpt now. It's like you you're giving it the human language. So All right Yeah, so about it. So you're giving it what you're thinking. I want Brian Sarko's cv What is the difference between bot and google now? So google is a search engine Basically, it's it's the same thing. You when you look at chat gpt when you look at google These are uh, these are chat uh that search engines, but you know chat gpt is more Let me say sophisticated and very smart because it's using AI models, you know model is something that is trained to understand the natural human language and give back information From the information that have That have key does and as an input So, you know tech is evolving and uh Chat gpt is kind of, you know disrupting The workspace. Yeah, and people are feeling more threatened than before people are thinking like that the verge of losing their jobs Uh, you know, there's uh issues about school homeworks, you know teachers are fearing This thing is going to replace them But again, uh, my tech is very simple on this matter of AI revolution It reminds me of some month. I could one at time Yeah, you want to scare our son and but I don't know to some months. I come with you but uh A physical baby girl and don't know it's a month and people actually did not know that that was introduction of AI Yeah, right. So I'm relating you can see yeah, so my tech like You know, many people have been into many spaces and the first thing somebody, you know when the speaker is done and somebody Do you have a question? The first question is always software engineer software engineers, especially they are so worried The first question somebody raises hand and says hi My name is dash dash I take my job as a software engineer you see Yeah, people are so threatened and but my tech is very simple. This matter is this something that you cannot control, you know Technology will keep evolving. So you as a person what you need to do is level up, you know Yeah, do When you knew one two three that now AI can solve The only opportunity you have to remain very relevant in the in the tech space is to keep evolving You know learn to adapt learn the new things if AI now can create uh or give you a code snippet of a certain function Why don't you as a software engineer, you know Focus on maybe uh, you know, software Architecture focus on software design. Yeah, you see you when you keep leveling up Then you don't need to worry about these things because these things they're there and they continue coming so Again in the school in uh in the school industry again teachers are threatened You know students are not now doing their homework and even some schools Especially boarding schools where they're using internet the burning time GPT from access on that uh internet. So For me, I see this thing as you know It's it's a blessing because Is there a blessing and a curse at the same time? Yeah, it's a blessing and a curse at the same time because now it needs you as a human to level up At a level where you thought that you'll never reach because You have to live unless Unless you'll get you want to get uh retrenched Right, but you need to level up. So again in school. I see this tool as a helping aid to a teacher So for me, I think it's a good thing that teachers and can embrace instead of burning it They instead they can you know show the students how to use it to be informative, you know with the current Uh technology or the current trends in the world. So that's my take Interesting, but at the same time my dilemma is This M M AI software apps and everything from that space is human generated So i'm really wondering how what a human being has created is at the same time threatening his or her opportunities That is my dilemma Yeah, um You see When you when you're doing an innovation You are not doing innovation to You know to disrupt the normal human being You know way of living or trying to take his job away what you are trying to do is to Help him to Or help them to you know to do their job if a job efficiently and effectively so AI is just there to Help us and move away from the repetitive tasks that we used to do manually. So they get automated So Yeah, that's basically my feeling. I don't think we are being threatened by the same human being who created the AI Yeah, they're just trying to help All right, which is interesting at the same time because when you look at The world we're living in especially when it comes to education. They point to mention about education. I'm trying to I feel like it's going to make work easy because right now for example, you're still in campus and you want to I don't know if you believe in using exact information from the internet But at some point for me, I've used it in my academy at some point at school They're like, hey, I'm a semi-twenty to make an any to make an essay about, you know How to create software dioxide you go chop. You will not put the exact Components and you know, so it's really interesting. So we are due for a break All right, so you can interact with us on our social media at y254 channel But before we go, I'd just like you to give your final word and what we should expect from you because I'm told that time Is up and where can people access you? For example, if a person needs your services in software developing because you deal with the front end and back and Where can they access you? That's your camera? So you can access me on twitter. My handle is emu chain underscore You can send us an email especially if you're a law firm and you're looking forward to take your law firm online Uh, we can provide the best services for your law firm Send us an email to support at isheria.co.ke Thank you Number you don't want to give out your number You're good. You're comfortable. I'm not forcing you please. Okay. Sure. I'm comfortable. So you can reach me on 0704 407 239 0704 407 239. Thank you All right, we have been speaking to maxwell or jeng who's a software engineer and definitely if you are clueless about what happens In that world Yeah, I'm sure you've learned a lot personally for me like this is another chapter. I'm already opening I don't know but I don't know about you But tell us in that hashtag or in the morning as well as thursday vibes at 1 2 5 4 channel underscore on instagram Mine's is that brian. So go on a 1 we take a break. We come back with much more stick around