 A quick 999 donation from Carl Vauby. He's got a question for you, Danny, and it's, has Mr. Sheehan personally seen enough evidence testimony to be convinced the UAP issue is extraterrestrial? Can he say anything about the most convincing evidence? Thanks, amazing show. Thank you, Carl. Yeah, absolutely. There are two specific things that have convinced me the most. One of them was back in 1977 when I was asked by the Congressional Research Service, Science and Technology Division, to be special counsel to their investigation of the UFO and ET phenomenon at the request of President Carter after he was elected. He was denied access to this information by George H.W. Bush, who was at that time the director of the Central Intelligence Agency. And President Carter commissioned a major secret study to be done by the Congressional Research Service, the Science and Technology Division. I was contacted by Marcia Smith, who was the director of that project, and asked initially if I could get at the information that was in the Vatican archives, because I was legal counsel, the Jesuit National Headquarters, in their Office of Social Ministry, their Public Policy Office. When we were unable to get that information, I was later asked by Marcia to go and deliver a closed-door three-hour presentation to the top 50 scientists of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the SETI program, on the theological implications of contact with an extraterrestrial civilization because of my position at the Jesuit headquarters. In that context, I asked Marcia Smith if we could get at the classified portions of Project Blue Book. So I could use that to prepare this presentation that I was asked to make to the top scientist in SETI. And it was in that context that I actually physically got access to the classified portions of Project Blue Book. And I saw photographs, not just photographs in the sky of some bright light jiggling around, or not even some kind of a craft that looks like you could kind of doctor it in the sky, but this was a crashed UFO saucer. There wasn't any doubt about it that had the photographs. So I saw several photographs of it that had plowed through this field that was covered with snow, was stuck on the side of an embankment. And it was actually being photographed by U.S. Air Force personnel and with cameras and stuff all around it in the photographs. And I was actually able to trace the markings on the side, on the dome part of the saucer that were nothing. They were not any kind of planetary language at all. They were a set of symbols that were on the side of the dome of this craft. And so I saw that. And so I knew perfectly well that that was true. And I brought it back to Jesuit headquarters and I showed it to Father William J. Davis, who was my Jesuit superior at the headquarters of the Jesuit order. And he reached down and slid open a drawer in his desk and took out a little Manila folder and handed it to me. And I unlatched it and I pulled it out and it was a little eight and a half by 11 black and white glossy photograph of a UFO. You know, perfectly clear that it was a UFO. And I said, where did you get this? And he said, well, my sister Doty gave it to me. I said, well, where did Doty get it? She said, her husband, Michael gave it to her. He was the air traffic controller up in Seattle, Washington. And his best friend, who was a commercial pilot, took this photograph out of the cockpit window of a UFO that was that was tracking his plane. And he the pilot didn't want to get in any trouble about this by reporting it officially. So he said, look, I'm going to bring it to my best friend, Mike, who is the air traffic controller here in Seattle. He gave him the copy of the photo. And Michael didn't want to get in trouble by reporting it. So he took it and gave it to Doty, his wife. And he said, here, Doty, take this and give it to your brother. He's a priest. So Billy, Billy kept this in his desk. And when I showed him what I had found in the in the art and the project blue book, he showed me that photo. So that was one of the two instances in which I was convinced that this was real. The second one was it Roswell that I had, I had, it must have been 1995, 1996, something like that. I was in the process of representing Dr. John Mack at Harvard University, who was in this well known confrontation with the Harvard faculty over the fact that he had published this book called Inductions, Human Contact with Aliens, etc. And in that context, I was invited to go to the International UFO Congress out in Laughlin, Nevada to do a presentation to give them an update on how we were doing in the litigation. And so a guy came up out of the audience and said to me, Mr. Sheehan, I need to meet with you about something really important. And so I did, I met with him with another fellow and I sat down with him. He said, look, I think I have found the photographer who took that famous photograph of General Raimi kneeling down in front of that balloon wreckage, the weather balloon wreckage. He said, and I had noticed in that photograph, I kept saying, look at what is that that Raimi has in his hand. He's got some kind of a telegram or something in his hand. And I had thought about that many times. And when the guy said, look, I think I found the photographer that I said, look it, if you can do that, find out if that's the photographer and see if there's any chance that he still has the original negatives of the photographs that he took that night on July 9, the late night of July 8 and early morning of July 9, 1947. He still has them. I know some people we can get some financing and we can digitize those negatives and get them blown up and we can see if we can read that telegram that Raimi has in his hand. And then it turns out that he tracked the guy down and it was the photographer. He did have the negatives. We got the negatives digitized and blown up and you could read the telegram. And we actually subjected it to a computer analysis. So we're some of the places where there were creases in the telegram that you couldn't quite tell what the letter was in the work that we subjected it to a computer that could tell whether it was a consonant or a vowel or whatever it was. And we reconstructed that. And it said, take the disc to right field and bring the bodies of the crash victims. And it said that in the telegram that Raimi had in his hand. Not thinking that in a thousand years that anybody would ever be able to read it. And the dumb guy brought it with him and got the photograph taken of him standing there holding in his hand. So I said, look, here are the two things. These are the two most convincing pieces of evidence. I can tell you this. If I put that evidence in front of an American jury, the jury would conclude beyond any reasonable doubt that the UFOs were real and that those bodies that were recovered there in Roswell were from an extraterrestrial civilization. So those are the two pieces of evidence that I thought personally were the most convincing for me. Okay. So real quick, Andy wanted to ask a follow up question on something you said, and then we've got a $5 donation that has a question for John. And I also wanted to get John's thoughts on whoever's phones going off. If you could silence it, that would be great. No worries either way. I know people are busy. But real quick, John, let's bring you in because I wanted you, I wanted to hear sort of your rebuttal to the two pieces of evidence that Danny found with, you know, the most convincing. And then we've also got a quick question here for you. Well, you're muted, John. So we definitely know it's not your dings. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. That was me. I was trying to make sure. I laughed at rebuttal that you automatically assumed that I was rebuttal. I don't know. Just a guess. So you're gonna, so there's a lot to unpack there. I'm going to start with the latter piece of evidence first. And I'm going to have to ask for a respectful reminder on the first part, the letter walking into a courtroom with a artificial intelligence. I would say filling in the gaps, you know, to just kind of quickly summer it. Danny, I've known you a long time. So I mean no disrespect and to say that I would respectfully disagree with an attorney when I'm not an attorney makes me a little uncomfortable. But I think I would respectfully disagree in the sense that if you showed a jury that that you had to get a computer to fill in the blanks, they would say you'd have to do better. And I think that we would need to really dissect the claims of, you know, what it was about Roswell. But sadly, I think there are so many holes in the Roswell story at this point. We've lost all the witnesses. So now we're going on messy second, third and even fourth hand information of he said, she said, that's challenging in a courtroom. And I often often liken this debate away from Roswell, but UFOs and UAPs as a whole as stepping into a courtroom improving your case. And I've had to do that in FOIA appeals now hundreds and hundreds of times. I've done 10,000 plus FOIAs in 25 years. Appeals, I have no idea to be honest with you how many I've done. It's definitely not thousands though, just simply because it took me years to realize that the appeal process actually does work. And I always recommend people to do it. So I've appealed a lot more. But when you get to the appeal process, then you get into essentially making your case. When you file a FOIA, it could be a little bit more of a fishing expedition. When you do an appeal process, you got to sit down and lay out the evidence of why you're challenging a final determination. And so the very wee little experience I've had with that aspect of it, that's just where I would respectfully disagree about that latter piece of the evidence. Happy to address the first part, but I'll be honest with you. I'm just drawing a blank on what the first part is. No, no, no, that's okay. Don't sweat it. But because you're talking about the appeals process, so let's let's ask this question here. And this is related to what you were saying. All right. Well, there was two things that kind of came up in the whole conversation between everybody that just went in this. Remember that there's two different types of lies that you're going to deal with with the government. You're going to be ones that are blatant just to cover up a blunder or some type of mishap or just something they just don't want to get out. Then you also have lies that are unfortunately actually necessary for national security and things like that. And these lies are just to as counter espionage, things like that. So our job is to be able to pick through that data, find what's not going to cause the most horrible, horrendous things, and then get our answers. And the other thing is, is Danny said that he had access to all the project Blue Book files along with the pictures. Did you have the access to the associated documents with those pictures to get a clearer identification of exactly what you were looking for? That it wasn't like an experimental craft that they had built and the passengers were just, I've heard, honestly, some really horrible stories about who they could actually be. And we won't go into that because it's a little too dark for my taste. But no, not mine, but the public. But if I just wanted to know if you had the associated paperwork with it and the reports that describe the crash in detail. Yeah, no, it was one of those mistakes I've made in the past. Once I got the photographs, and I saw the different photographs, there were like three or four of the photographs from different angles, et cetera. And you can tell that the Air Force personnel that were all around them were kind of stunned. And they were taking these photographs in this kind of excited way about this craft. And as I say, the key was that the symbols that were around the edge of the dome were symbols that were not anything, they weren't any kind of English or Russian or Chinese or any kind of hieroglyphics or anything. They were a completely unique set of symbols that were all around the edge of this dome of this thing, which led me to believe that, look, this is not any language that I've ever seen or anywhere near anything on our planet. That's what caused me to think that. And then one of the problems was that once I, they told me that I was not allowed to take any notes or anything else in the room with the documents. I did, and it's kind of an infamous story now, but I had this yellow pad with me that I had under my arm. And I opened it up on the inside cardboard of the yellow pad. I reduced the picture from this film strip thing that I had, from what they call this little machine, the microfiche machine that I was using to see the documents. And what I did is I traced the exact letters that were in this, around the dome of this thing. And I closed it up and because I knew that I had done something that they were, I was going to get in big trouble if I tried doing it. What I did is I put it under my arm and I walked out of the place really fast to get out of there because I thought that this was kind of dispositive. And I've kicked myself a thousand times between then 1977 and now I should have stayed there and I should have started taking some notes on any of the documents that were around that referred to that, but I didn't. So I had the, I saw the photographs and I saw the letters and I copied the letters and then I left. And so the short answer to that is I didn't go digging into all the rest of the documents. Not only that, there was tons of other stuff there. I mean, it was a whole room, like by, you know, maybe 20 feet wide by 15 feet deep. And they had these, these folding tables with these boxes, these look like big shoebox size things with these canisters of microphesian. And it was as soon as I hit that particular set of photographs, I, since I was able to copy the letters around the top of the dome or the edge of the dome of that, that crap that I just got up and left. And that was a big mistake. Is that, is that tracing available anywhere? Have you made that public? Yeah, have you, have you framed that, that cardboard? I brought it back to the Jesuit headquarters and I put it in the files of the Jesuit headquarters. And when I left the Jesuit headquarters, I took my files with me. And when we left, we were doing the Big Iran Confer case, this big case that we had, dealing with the, the off the shelf enterprise. And there, there was an attempt on the part of Jack Singlaub, who is the president of the World Anti-Communist League and, and green and these other guys that were the lawyers for Oliver North and the other guys, they were trying to get a hold of our documents. So what we did is we, we stacked up our documents in this big 18 Wheeler and moved them to California and actually put them in a, in a storage facility out there out by the Inland Empire here in California. And there was this huge massive storm. This sounds like one of those dumb fucking excuses you'd hear if someone on the stand and you turned it during, oh yeah, right. You know, but, but the fact is that there was this big flood and they flooded part of the documents that we had stored. I didn't know for years which ones they were, but when we took the documents out of there and moved them to Jackson Brown's ranch, where we had them for years, when I finally went looking for that particular file, a whole section of our Jesuit files are the ones that got flooded out. And then the people at the, at the storage facility had just thrown them out and never even told us about it and never even gave us an option to look at them. But I've concluded over the years that had to be one of the part of the documents that got flooded out. So we don't have them. So Jamar, I want to bring you in here real quick, because I haven't heard that beautiful face yet. What I want to add to that though, is the fact that there is such a counterintelligence value to the UAP topic that regardless of if there is a extraterrestrial connection or not, and I do believe that that's a big possibility for a portion of what we're dealing with, the stuff that is not extraterrestrial connected can absolutely be utilized by the intelligence community and counterintelligence operatives and whatever you want to say, as a way to muddy the public perception of what we are dealing with. And it costs the government nothing, because the general public will take just a little tiny nugget and blow it into something that it's not. So the answer, is it extraterrestrially connected or not, then becomes irrelevant, because the portion that definitely isn't, they can use it and start throwing things out there like, oh yeah, we're totally clueless. And I point to the official inside communication of the United States Air Force obtained through FOIA that talked about the, all with clearance holders and public affairs offices and so on. It was the internal communications that the Navy put out the statement to me in September of 2019 that they had no idea what those videos were, first time they ever acknowledged that. And then when you juxtapose that with the Air Force, internally, and again these were not public statements, I had to fight for the documents, internally the Air Force is going, yeah, the Navy says they're unidentified, but we're talking about UASs and drones. And the media turns it into UFOs and aliens. And it really gives an insight that number one, military agencies don't really know what the other one thinks does, or they agree with each other. But number two, look at the value of that, because now we don't know, as the general public, we just don't know what to believe. Is it alien? Is it not? Could it be? Could it be? Do they have the answers? Do they not? And again, that CI value, the counterintelligence value of this topic, whether or not it's alien, is something that they're going to utilize. So that I believe, Jamal, if that answers your question, that they will use that to their advantage, because in the process it confuses Russia, it confuses China, it may confuse Iran, it will confuse all of the powers that either we are trying to play nice in the sandbox with or we're not, it confuses all of them to, wait a minute, does their intelligence community really not realize that that's a balloon or that's a drone? Or wait a minute, that's us. They're really clueless. Again, it's that confusion from the CI perspective that I think is what's going on. Capacity to seek information that is classified. And they can seek the authority to get it declassified so they can have access to it. And this was undertaken by the Congressional Research Service, Science and Technology Division at my request as special counsel to them and that Marcia Smith, who was the head of the Science and Technology Division of the Congressional Research Service, when I put the request to her to have that get access to the classified portions of Project Blue Book, she just came back to me a couple of weeks later, totally surprised that they had agreed to do this. That when I asked her to see if we could get access to it so I could help prepare this presentation to the SETI program at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California, she didn't think they were going to agree to do it. And so she was surprised that they had agreed to this. And so she simply told me, yes, I had a right to come and see this. I had to bring two forms of photo identification. And I went over to the Madison Building, which was the brand new wing of the Library of Congress, and they had delivered these files. And they were in this room downstairs in the basement of the Madison Building. And there was nobody even there. It wasn't even open yet. It was brand new. It had just been built. And so when I went in, there were two suits that were standing in front of the door. When I arrived, who checked out my passport and my driver's license, and then I was allowed into the building. And I went down the hall into an elevator, they pointed out and went down into the basement. And there were these other two suits in front of this room. And I don't know exactly what agencies they were from. I don't know. But I'd never got a clearance because Bob Fink, who was the Chief Investigator for Bella Abzug, who was the Congresswoman from New York, who chaired the House Judiciary Committee, Subcommittee on Human Rights, always said to me, he said, do not ever accept a classification of security clearance because you can find out virtually anything you want to know without doing that. You've got the kind of contacts. You've got the kind of access to people. You don't want to have that because what they'll do is attribute everything that you've ever discovered from any other source, they'll attribute it to your security clearance. And they'll stop you from talking about it publicly. So I have refused to accept the security clearance. And so I didn't get a clearance to see that. So can I chime just a quick question? Yeah, please, please, John. Yeah. And I'm sorry, I have to ask. So if you didn't, because I know judges and attorneys sometimes get the in-camera clearances. So if you shut that down, okay, how can CRS divulge, or whatever agencies were in the hallway, divulge classified information? And that's okay. They didn't. I did. Well, no, they brought classified records to you, right? You said boxes. Well, they brought them to the Library of Congress. They were over the Library of Congress at the Madison Building downstairs in the basement. Again, my interview part is taking over. I'm just curious then, how could they allow a civilian to go in, attorney legal background or not, without the proper clearance, to just open up and see a picture of what you said was an alien spacecraft from the classified files of Blue Book? Like how? I don't know. I don't know whether they temporarily declassified the files or what they did. All I know is they brought them there. And there must have been 20, 25 boxes of these light green shoebox-sized things with these micro-peach in them. And they were all in this room on these folding tables in the room downstairs in the Madison Building. And it must have been, I don't know, February, March, or it was, I don't believe they're even snow. I think it must have been after March or so of 1977, when they did it. And that's where I saw the stuff. All right. All right, Gary, then we'll go to Andy. Sorry, Andy. I know you got a question. Sorry, Andy. That's all good. So I just got just two real quick questions. So since you actually physically saw the symbols, have you tried to replicate them? And then, without reading the documents included with the pictures, how can you be sure of the context of the photos? You know, even a TS project could make soldiers say what the F. So I just was wondering those two things. Okay, yeah. I was always very careful because I copied them, traced them literally in the exact sequence that those symbols were there at the base of the dome. But I'll show you. I don't know if you can see this. Can you see here? Where am I here? Yeah, just put the pop propping up. There you go. Yeah, see, I'll show you. I'll show you exactly what they looked like. But I don't know what the sequence is. I don't remember the exact sequence they were in, but they were like this. I want to see how close my guess was because I drew some stuff. Oh, what did you draw it? Okay. What does that mean, Andy? I'll tell you later. I think I know. Oh, what do you think it is? Well, I don't know. I don't want to give anything away, but I lifted up just a little. Okay, you see this? Yeah, a little, you know what? Let's let's let's hold on a second there. Let's blow you up real quick, Danny. Okay. But that's that's that's what they were a series of straight lines like that pointing either from the lower left to the upper right or from the upper left to the lower right. And they had these these series of series of dots in little little U shaped things like this things right right here in dots like this different sequences of dots. And they were all around the the bottom of the dome of the of the of the craft like this. They were they were along the bottom of the dome of the craft. All right, I lied. I got one more question. All right, so that's very that's very similar to a cuneiform. Have you have you tried to match it based off of different dialects of cuneiform? Yes, I have this is not cuneiform. It's not cuneiform. It was not it was it was these things here and that all kinds of physical structures have some similarities to other physical structures. But these were these were unique. They did not match when I was at the headquarters. We checked it up. They did not match any other kind of of of communication. Andy that did that answer your question?