 Okay, we're back inside the Cube, our flagship telecast, we go out to the events. This is our third EMC World. I'm John Furrier, the founder of SiliconANGLE.com with Dave Vellante, my co-host. And three years ago we embarked on the Cube journey here at EMC World. This is our third EMC World, Dave. Pat Gelsinger has been on every time. And welcome back, Pat Gelsinger, President of EMC. Welcome back. Hey, thank you very much. And you guys are great, love working with you and the honor of participating with the Cube. So this is great. So Dave, Dave, we were talking before you came on about this conversation with Joe Tucci yesterday at the analyst meeting. So why don't you start it off with a couple of those fire those questions that Pat. Yeah, well, so Joe gave a great, it's always a pleasure of mine to be able to sit and Joe does the Q and A. You did as well, but unfortunately I couldn't make yours because we had- So you show for Joe's, but not mine. Oh, here's what happens. So John had to go to the H-Base conference yesterday. We got to cover a lot of stuff, Pat. We got ESPN tech, we got ESPN too. I was solo yesterday, it was a real challenge. But well, let's start off with, I mean, great keynote. I was there, and so 42 products. I mean, I thought Megalaunch was out of control. Yeah, okay, so let's do it again. Megalaunch too, so that's just amazing. I mean, give us the, not the rundown on all the products, but what's your take? I mean, you've got your fingerprint now on the portfolio, it's rounded out. I mean, it's really come a long way. How do you feel about it? Well, I feel good, right? And I think the company overall feels good just that, hey, people are saying, boy, we're picking up the pace. And Megalaunch was great, we sort of had a nice confluence of events for this one-time thing. But now, less than two years later, what are we, 15 months after Megalaunch won, 42 products. And everybody's saying, wow, we're picking up the pace. And in the technology industry, you know how it goes. If you're not leading, if you're not moving ahead, you're falling behind. There is no hold of the status quo. So I really feel good about that. I also think the quality of the innovation, right? You know, you look at the 40K, you look at the Isilon products, you're some of the Vplex capabilities. You're just saying, wow, these are really like good products, right, that really are having great impact on the industry. And that's some of the just totally innovative things that we're doing that nobody would have expected us to be doing. So that whole portfolio, I'm just really proud of the teams. You know, that's really an honor to be part of it. So when I made the fingerprint comment, it reminds me of something you said on theCUBE back at Sapphire. You said, we asked you to compare Intel, the EMC said Intel marches to the cadence of Moore's Law, EMC, you know, it's maniacally customer-focused. But it seems like when you pull together 42 products like that and synchronize everything, there's that sort of cadence mentality. Is that just a coincidence? Well, it's my observation. I knew I was going to be at theCUBE and we had to have something to talk about. So hey, I just said, look, we got to pull these stuff together. Just for you guys. You didn't want to be embarrassed on theCUBE. I mean, that's no small feat synchronizing that many products. Yeah, it is. And obviously, hey, some are shipping and some aren't right yet, but pulling that together obviously. And I'm also very, very proud. This is one of the things inside of those 42 that really bring me pleasure. Because a few of the announcements were cross-business unit products. And to me, that is great. Deplex and RecoverPoint, now being integrated. RecoverPoint to the VMAX. Oh, wow, that's really pretty cool. The VC Ops announcement with VNX for storage analytics, right? We're seeing alignment across VMware, right? Data bridge across all of our management. To me, that's sort of as well. We're not just picking up the pace right inside of our development engine. We're also working better across the development engine. And that really brings me great pleasure because that's sort of the thing that I can only uniquely sort of help facilitate across the BU, so I'm really proud of that as well. Yeah, and then the other observation is that the portfolio has changed so dramatically. You weren't here back in 2006, although you were working with EMC. And you look at the portfolio back then, it was okay, it was good, good products. But wow, complete transformation with Data Domain, a nice salon. You made this extreme IO acquisition now. And let me ask you about that. So we got to spend some time on that. Do you feel like you now have all the pieces of Flash in place? And what about the software to bring that together? Is that software Flash? Sorry, is that software Fast? Yeah, clearly with the acquisition of Extreme IO, as we understand the taxonomy of the industry today, we got all the pieces we need. But far be it for me to say we've ended innovation in this space at that level. So I'll never say never in this industry because we haven't cornered the market on new innovative ideas. But at least as we understand the taxonomy now, we got the pieces we need, period. And of course now tying those together, that's for Fast. But also when I mentioned this in the keynote, that our services and management as well need to tie those products together. And you notice in the VMAX 40K demonstration, we did the provisioning of VF Cash inside of the management tools, the Unisphere for VMAX 40K. So you're starting to see the ties in action to simplify that management experience. Also all of the dial home and analytics capabilities are done through the same SYR capabilities that we have for other products. So we're just stitching it together so that our customers can say, oh, I bought this one, it's easy for me to add this capability to it. So I got to ask you about the 40K. So I see that, I say, wow, that is huge. And then I see Extreme IO, and I say, wow, that's scale. And I say, is there a new tier one coming? Is the 40K sort of the last big giant array that we'll see? And you're going to start to see things like Extreme IO morph into that capability, bringing the software and robustness that you have in a Symmetrix and a VMAX. What do you see there? So theories that would have, this be the last VMAX are clearly misguided. We have a roadmap for innovation inside of VMAX. I even pointed at some of the capabilities. The next generation VMAX is well underway. And I mentioned one of the new capabilities it's going to include. It'll run VMs right inside the next generation VMAX. That's pretty cool. It really radically changes the definition of what is a high end array? You're running compute workloads inside of the array. Is that a storage array? What are you talking about? Is that a mini data center? It starts changing the definition. So the VMAX innovation engine is alive and well, period. But if you go think about VMAX, it's a scale out platform. We've got scale heads and we're going to increase that scale going forward. Right as well. And you say, Extreme IO, it's a scale out block. All flash array in front of it. These sort of things sort of look the same, don't they? You sort of say, how might we composite those together over time? And maybe in fact, Extreme IO technology ends up being as the new front end of VMAX in the future. Maybe so. We're still, literally, we just completed the acquisition a couple of weeks ago now. And the full breadth of how we're going to bring together that portfolio, we haven't done it. We haven't gone through the work yet. And that team's job is maniacal, get Gen 1 product done, shipping and available to customers, make it part of the management suite. And then over time, we'll factor it into the product line in, I think, multiple ways. So, you know, I love the observation around that you share, that's about the integration, brings an operating system kind of mindset to converging silos to deliver value of customers. So going forward, you've got Green Plum under your belt. We've got Pivotal with that. Kind of that little dance going on with those guys going gray for them, really transforming the exciting part of Green Plum to big data. And then you've got the Flash and acquisitions. How are you looking at the data? Because you were up on stage talking about data gravity. Data is a real big pawn in our chess piece, not pawn, but chess piece in this architecture. Because where data sits is interesting because we're hearing from startups, I was just from San Francisco for the HBase Conference and all around that because of the role of data, Amazon is becoming less useful for startups. Because the provision in AWS with data, the cost involved in moving that data is significant versus the old days of put the credit card down, spin up, web servers, MySQL, not anymore because the data is sitting up there. So you can't just spin down data. So that's a big concern in the cloud. So where data sits in the architectures, going back to hosting, to manage hosting. So what's your vision on data? Because you have to integrate data. So it's an integration challenge across multiple sets of architectures, but also it's a value opportunity to enable some products. Well, we do think, and that was the point of the beginning of my keynote, is that the gravity is shifting from this app silo into the data pool. And that shift we think is inexorably underway. We're still at the beginning of it, but it's going to happen and it will never come back. Because when you go think about the old world pre-cloud, I had my database that was bound to a set of servers, so I added to its mass, which then locked up the data, and I could only get in and out of it with these ETL-like tools, they gave me little portals and so on. But it was this big mass, and that's where center of every app for the last 20 years was sort of somehow gravitationally in the orbit of that stuff. Virtualization just chopped it in half. You said it's infrastructure, all converge. And now apps, moving around a few gigabytes of VMs, no big deal. It's starting to move around a few terabytes or petabytes of data. Yeah, through a core switch. Expensive, hard. Right, and I always being a Moore's Law semiconductor kind of guy, Moore's Law, doubling transistors every two years. And that's nominally how much we increase our compute capacity, about double every two years. My network capacity doubles every four to five years. So guess what? It's not like the networks are going to make up for this data gravity, because they're falling behind even Moore's Law. And then if you look at data, it's doubling every 12 to 15 months. So of those, right? I mean, you got compression issues too, like maybe you can try to compress it, but still not going to give you any. It'll give you a little bit of help. It's an aspirin. And most of the unstructured data is already compressed in some form. Video is already compressed. You're not going to compress, compressed. It doesn't de-dupe because it's already compressed. The more of it needs to be encrypted. So there's no magic pills here. De-dupe and compression, I mean they help, but it's nothing that's going to fundamentally. But this is a scarce resource. So you got scarcity in the resource of moving large data around the network. And you have a massive tsunami of piling up of data. So you have more volume of data. So explain your vision around the viscosity concept you were saying. Because obviously, you know, frictionless data movement is a good thing. And same for applications, but you can't easily do that. So explain to the folks what you're mean by that. Viscosity and what are the challenges around the architecture of where you set the data? Or is it a new stack up and down? Well, I don't think we have it all figured out yet. I don't think I have it all figured out yet. But what we would say is that data pool, and it's no longer a data island, it needs to become this data pool, needs to be able to deal with multiple types of data. Both structured, unstructured, semi-structured data, you need to be able to access it by multiple methods. And that's why, for instance, we added HDFS to Isilon. I want to be able to access NFS, SIFS, HDFS. The access methods need to become very easy. We also say that we need to be able to put more function into it. Metadata models, et cetera, associated have to be able to come to the data. And we're also going to say those data pools become so big, so heavy, that we have to make it easier for application to come around those environments as well. And so we also said we're going to start opening up those arrays to run VMs as well. VMs are mobile and easy. Well, let's go move the VM right next to the data as close as we can, right into the storage array. So we see that this whole thing, our job is to enable more intelligence in the data. We have to secure and protect that data, right? And then we have to enable applications to get value from it. So talk about VMware, okay? Because I want to ask you to talk about VMware, because it's an exciting company, as you know. And it's West Coast and you're from the West Coast. If you were running VMware right now with Paul Moritz, okay, what would you be talking about with him in terms of those conversations? Because what's happening at the virtualization layer is interesting, so if you were running VMware, what would you be working on? Knowing what you've got going on EMC, you can sit next and say, come on Paul, let's do these things. What would you be working on? Well, I'd say we do have those discussions all the time. And Paul, Joe and I, when Joe announced the extension of his time in the company to me, it's sort of like saying, hey, the Beatles have decided to stay together longer. Because Joe, Paul, Pat, with the others and the leadership team, with David and Howard and Bill, I mean, we've got a great leadership thing going on. Amazing talent to execute it. And you go look at that leadership team and put it up against any other leadership team of any other big high tech industries. I mean, just man of man, who would you pick, right? It's like, yeah. Like the Celtics 1986 Celtics, the Lakers in those dynasty years, right? Yeah, it just feels good. So Joe's saying, hey, I'm hanging around. Or it's just like, hey, the Beatles are staying together. The band is playing well. So the first point of that is, we are having those discussions, right? And we have them all the time. And it's really that ongoing strategic dialogue that we have. Now, some of the things coming out of that would be things like, you know, we've announced here at the show, right? You know, we talk about, hey, let's go bring VC ops together with our storage analytics. Wow, you know, we're figuring out how to bring more leverage. You'll hear more examples of that at VMworld. But coming maybe a little bit more specifically to your question, you say, you know, in this data space, there's a lot of things that haven't been figured out yet, right? And VMware is doing some of those. Things like Vfabric Data Director to me is just, you know, a great example. How do I manage databases like I manage VMs today, right? And we're saying, well, how can we tie those things together? And you know, one of the, you know, technologies they have. It's huge enablement. I mean, there's so many opportunities within that stack that's disruptive, but yet enablement. And it's just to get the VC arm that you're leading. Yeah, the venture's capability. And you know, so we're saying, you know, let's go think about what does it mean to have, you know, a green fire, right? How can we bring gemfire together more closely with Green Plum and, you know, some of the opportunities that emerges? How can I take Pivotal and combine it more closely with Spring and the developer framework? You know, so I have both modern frameworks as well as agile development. And you've got Hadoop and all the action going on in the open source community. Yeah, and you know, there's just the numerous of these things. And so we're saying, how does my Hadoop capabilities and our distro relate to making Hadoop a first class citizen in the virtualization layer, right? And you know, how do we then, you know, explore bringing together some of the management capabilities of VMware with the security capabilities of EMC, right? Because I, you know, as I've, I think I mentioned to you before, I think of those as the twin evils of the data center, management and security. And, you know, how do we, you know, combine those together? By the way, I saw Simon Crosby last night, he wanted me to say hello to you. Oh. And he's expecting your call. Simon, I got you in there. You're watching. So John, I have to say, so we're getting the break side, but we're just going to ignore it. So we got, it's got a huge traffic. So you're bringing them in, Pat. We got like over 700 people watching right now. We got a big spike. So I always want to reset with people. So I tell you, this is theCUBE. We're here live at EMC World with Pat Gelsinger. Pat is the president and COO of the EMC, essentially runs the entire product group. So Pat, I wanted to ask you, you guys, you and John were just talking about, you know, VMware and, you know, what you'd be doing and how you talked to Paul and strategize. People talk about EMC, it's transformed, it's no longer a storage company, right? That we know. What is it? You know, we view our vision to really center around doing three things, right? Cloud, big data on a foundation of trust, right? And those are the three things that we're pivoting and we see those things becoming the foundations for data and IT of the future, right? And you know, it is being the most disruptive player for data center infrastructure writ large, right? You know, whether it's big or small, right? Whether it's in, right, legacy computing environments or new modern public cloud environments, you know, we want to be the primary data center infrastructure provider for all of those. Yeah, now, I think it was last year, Joe said, you guys are the little of the big. Yeah, smallest of the big. Smallest of the big. You and SAP sort of, right? And we've called, John and I have many times have said EMC will be the next $100 billion market cap company, you know, in enterprise IT and, you know, not including Facebook in adequate. But, you know, in enterprise IT, right? In SAP, that's right. In SAP, you know, maybe you're there, but we're still holding to that prediction. So, you know. Oh, so I didn't realize it was a race between us and McDermott and Snobby. Well, it really is, you know. I think you guys have a lot in common. Are we going to put the odds on it here? We'll see. Well, I heard they're selling drives too. That was the project they're working on. Yeah, that's right. That's right. They're trying to basically say, you don't need disk drives. They're trying to get there first. So, we actually think there's a lot of synergies. We've been picking up on that. We've been at. Yeah, we've had great progress in our partnership with SAP. And it's not, we've said, you know, okay, enemies of my enemy, we come together and then, wow, look what else we can do. The V-Block has been a great, the VCE coalition has been great within the SAP environment. And you know, SAP needs a better way to deploy, right? You know, their huge, right, application environment. A V-Block, you know, tying that together just works, right? Pat, so Pivotal was an interesting moment. Because Green Plum was a nice acquisition. Good, good taking out the other market. But they got sideways a little bit with the whole terror data, you know, the appliance thing. And, you know, Hadoop was still evolving. And so they were kind of like moving down and all of a sudden now with Pivotal, they got the Hadoop connectors. They got their strategy. They seem to be on fire with that. You got the flash thing going on. And now you've got the VCE group in Silicon Valley in Palo Alto focused. So you're making investments in your acquiring companies. Tell us about the two things. You reach out to developers, this ecosystem, that includes startups. And then how your investment strategies all coming together. I know Intel Capital, Intel Capital guys now running it. Talk about your vision there. Has Joe brought that up in the analyst? Well, we think that, and you know, we are all in that, you know, we are a products and technology company, 17,000 engineers. And, you know, we're going to keep growing, right? Our engineering capacity, we're going to, you know, increase our percent R&D over time. So we're committed to really be doing that organic innovation. Absolutely, right? You know, we've clearly, and I think of all of the major tech companies today, name one that's doing better than us in acquisitions. In terms of making those acquisitions, picking the right properties, and making them successful. You know, I think we're as good as anybody in that space today. I mean, I would put, there's obviously Oracle, IBM and EMC are the top three. I mean, can we agree on that? Right? And what do you say? Yeah. And then you guys are proving to be probably On the integration side, I think they trump IBM. Because IBM's had some faults with what's the store-wise and a bunch of other companies that they've done. And think went well. Well, IBM's got a very different formula. Yeah, yeah. They're in a different place, obviously. Right. Whereas you guys are much more speculative and strategic in terms of growing the business. Yeah, take cool assets and make them go faster. More aggressive, right? Right, right. And Oracle just has its whole different philosophy. Yeah, yeah. Win the maintenance stream. Yeah, but you're developing products organically, but it's hardware and software is blurring, right? So this is the big thing going on, right? Okay, hardware, when you got the Moore's Law mindset, which is great, but also now, Intel also had a developer focus as well and had an amazing ecosystem, both that they were investing in. In some cases, seeding a lot of capital out there to grow the ecosystem. And you ran that side of the house for a while. Well, it didn't work for me, but I was highly involved. So what we saw is organic machine, right? Obviously 42 new products, that's running pretty good. The M&A machine, that's running pretty good. But what we saw in between, where there were two communities that we weren't being systemic and structured, one was the university community and the other was the startup community. And we did good things in the startup community, but it was somewhat, hey, we did this, we didn't do that, you know, and it was sort of very ad hoc, right, in that respect. And we just said, hey, we got to structure both of those activities. So, right, we formed EMC Labs, right, a structured way to go partner with the university community. We launched that in January, and then Ventures, we launched a year and a half ago. Now we brought in Scott Darling, right, from the VC, as well as from Intel Experience to be leading that. And we really feel good about the response that we're getting. Because people, you know, as we go engage with customers, they know, hey, we're a good partner, right, you know, we do M&A's well, we're respectful of them in the industry, but they also see that we're building up much more of these ecosystem requirements. You know, some of them are developer requirements. Hey, some of them, they're just, you know, want to be closer to us to ride the market momentum that we're creating. How do these decisions get made? So just, you know, don't go into specific details because, you know, it's all about streamlining, being efficient, right? It structures one thing, but then operational efficiency is the other. Startup comes in the door, you do lead the round, some of you help with the VC on the B round. What, how does that move the chain? EMC is an operating committee, is there like a big financial committee? You have Corp Dev doing their job, right? But now you get the stars a little faster in the environment, a little competition. You're seeing a little innovation bubble going on, which is a good thing. You know, and we have sort of a two level process, which is somewhat like a normal VC would be operating. Or hey, we have a team that goes deep with a particular target, right? Get to understand them and, you know, make a recommendation, yay, nay, right? And we do that in conjunction with our business units, right? We require all of our investments to have a business unit sponsor, right? You know, say somebody who, you know, saying, yep, I think that's a good idea. And then it goes to a, you know, what we call our investment operations committee, right? Which is, you know, basically Scott, right? Who runs it, right? With Harry Yu for business development, Dave Gould and myself. How fast, you know, time would it take, you know, something moving up pretty fast. Stars line up to normal. Fast and normal. You know, I mean, these decisions, sometimes they seem to go on forever, right? You're dancing with a company, you're getting to know the company, you know, it could go on for year plus, right? You know, as we're going along, you know, we're not sure about them, but we stay close, right? You know, we have a sort of philosophy, hang around the hoop, right? Good stuff might happen. And other cases, hey, around is closing quickly. We got to the side, maybe in two weeks, you know, so we have to be able to move pretty quickly and say, hey, we're going to be- So you guys are prepared to do that? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And the other companies need to know that we're ready to do that as well. You know, we can make a decision quickly and often just saying, no, we can't for them, it's a better decision than- So VMware just pull up the seed is off the market. Great deal. Those guys are Palo Alto right on the corner and met the founders at an event, private event. They were doing great. They didn't really need to get bought, but they really want to work for VMware. Yeah, yeah. So does VMware, how do you get into the VMware conversation, because that's strategic, their stack is very- Well, we stay very aligned in that. And in fact, the seed is acquisition is a very interesting one, because we started down the EMC side doing that and planning to drop it into Green Plum, right? That's where we started that. The more we engage with them, we said, hey, you know, the first couple of use cases really are more aligned to VMware, right? So we put it on the VMware side of the house. So that demonstrated just the good coordination of that space we have between the two sides. And the bonus is it gets VMware really into a big data strategy, which was kind of unclear at the time that you bring the developer piece in and now that starts to mesh really well with your big data strategy. Yeah, absolutely. So as a company now culturally, so again, we asked this question three years ago and you gave us the epic answer. EMC's transformed from an East Coast storage company, hardware, good sales force, great, focused on sales, to a big product portfolio company, great messaging. Jeremy's doing an amazing job on the marketing. Yeah, it's a good kick right here. Tom Rolof's kicking butt with his consulting group. You got Pivotal now, Future of DevOps. Really nice company feel, right? What's the culture like? I mean, because you got the West Coast, you're from the West Coast, Jeremy's from the West Coast. It seems to be that's completely now a global company or at least not a East Coast thing anymore. It seems to be balanced nicely. What's your take on that? Well, I think cultures are never, in successful companies, cultures are never static. In a sense, you just got to keep moving them forward, changing them, evolving them, and so on. And I think we really have gone from being East Coast, white shirt, you know. What do you guys mean? Dave's the one. Dave's the one. Dave's the one. White shirt. Yeah, I think we really have evolved to being much more seen as a leader and a much cooler place to be participating in, right? As a thought leader in the IT industry. We're on the leading edge of big data. We're on the leading edge of cloud, right? And people are really seeing that. So that feels good. But the next layer of the transformation really is about being a more global company, right? Because with all the success we've had really expanding the company focus, et cetera, I have to be as cool in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou, right, Bangalore, right, Chennai, right? We should start recruiting hosts for those markets. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got to be seen as a cool leader in all of those markets as well. So I think we've gone from East Coast to a broad data center play. And the next phase for us is to really be a cool global company. Well, on the follow-up, you said you've, I think you've said it'd be 28 billion by 2014 is the target, is that right? And so those regions that you just talked about are critical for us are really important. You said last year, I mean, a great comment at VM, we're actually VM world, not EMC world, the question of competitiveness. You said, if you're not out in front of the next wave, you're driftwood. So that's the nice sound bite. We love that. And David always, always had to play that. So let's talk about driftwood in technology and these disruptions. So let's take what's going on in San Francisco right now with this H base. Really tied in with HDFS and MapReduce for the Duke architecture. It's really evolving as the no-sequel, bashing out real-time architecture for storing a lot of data on commodity hardware, still a lot of innovations around tools, et cetera. But all the early adopter alpha geeks, I mean, basically was a conclave of alpha geeks, Apple, Netflix, and even companies, Fidelity. Everyone was there and it was a tech conference. The cost and the economics are undeniable when you look at what you can do with some of these in production. At some point, these H bases are going to come in and replace filers, data warehouses. That's kind of the Moore's Law future version of the software world we're living in, open source. How do you look at that? And obviously you want to be out front and see not driftwood, but you got to make these calls on investments and decisions and how do you look at that kind of future where clean sheet of paper, disruptive entrepreneurs are coming in and saying, hey, I'm going to recreate a CRM system from scratch to get Oracle and SAP. And I think, and we are all in in the Hadoop community. We have distribution, we're supporting it. We also see that if I take Hadoop, Hadoop isn't a thing in that sense. It's components. You're talking about H base? You're talking about ACFS? What about Pig and Hive? It's a collection of stuff and in that space, we don't see that Hadoop is ever like Linux and we never expect to see a red hat of Hadoop because it's not a thing. You know, an operating system needs to be highly integrated, tested, drivers, all this kind of stuff. Hadoop is a bunch of stuff, right? And the fact we see that bunch of stuff actually integrating into many different places in the data stack over time, right? Some of them are going to end up in just being pieces of course, right? That revolve already open source. And we said, hey, we're all in in the open source way, right? Other pieces are going to disappear. HDFS, you don't want another file system. It's a protocol. So we just melted it into Isilon. You know, what we're doing at the HBase level, hey, you're not going to be able to tell where HBase stops and Green Plum starts in the future. Right? You know, because we're going to integrate a deep scale out analytics, right? With a bulk ingestion. Back to your integration strategy, right? Absolutely. So we are going to be all in in the open source community. We are absolutely see that innovative, you know, percolation, right? That's going on in this cauldron, right? You know, it's just way cool, right? And we're going to take every, we're both going to be good participants in our, you know, the thousand node analytics, right, infrastructure that we announced this week is a great example. Hey, this is the environment. That's awesome, awesome analysis. And it's a component. It depends on how you look at it, but now let's go back and pretend that you're on the board of Cloudera or Hortonworks. When they got funded, it was all about be the Linux of Hadoop. But the word pivot is often used, but they're growing like crazy. They're doing very well financially. What advice would you give these guys as they start to grow? They're growing. They're not pivoting for bad reasons. It's just positioning. As this future unfolds, what's your advice to Cloudera's in the Hortonworks of the world? Because they're benchmarked. That's Excel behind them. They don't ask my opinion, right? What if you, you know, if I was, Mike Olson, I asked you, what would you say? You know, again, what should I do? Yeah, you know, if your strategy is to become the red hat of Hadoop, my answer would be is there will not be a red hat of Hadoop. Because as I articulate it, it's a different technology composition. There is no quote, OS of Hadoop, right? The components will be integrated into other elements so the value will migrate to other places. So if I were, right, one of those companies, I'd be saying, okay, where is my center? Because you can't say it's Hadoop because there will be no center of Hadoop. Will it be in the analytics innovation and visualization that occurs? Right, will it be in the infrastructure that supports Hadoop? Right, will it be in the management and orchestration? Search. You know, there's many, many places this can go. So I don't want to be negative on those companies because I think there are huge opportunities. They're all growing like crazy. They'll find their home. Right, but there's no going to be red hat where there's a single distro. They're going to be- So you're saying, basically, great opportunity to find this place to base camp out. So you'll pick one of the many vectors. And grow from there, because it is a growth, Marcus, not like it's constructing. Hey, you know, I want to be the Cetus of Hadoop, right? You know, the one that's going to visualize and do it. You know, maybe I want to be the guy who's operationalizing a data as a service infrastructure. Maybe I want to be the guy, right, who's doing infrastructure to support HDFS. But you know, you better pick one of those directions because there ain't going to be no Hadoop, right? You know, there ain't going to be no red hat in this space. Well, Pat, we've always been a big fan of yours. And we always said that you and Paul Moritz were the windtell of the future EMC and VMware and really loved your perspective on VMware. Dave and I have been talking all about VMware, the whole stack and how that's been in lovely mindset. So thanks for being on theCUBE, really appreciate it. Always a pleasure. Going in the distance, we're getting the hook here for Pat Gelsinger. Pat's on theCUBE again. And this is a great session with Pat. Thank you very much. We'll be right back with our next guest after this break.