 Good morning, Selena Catala. I just like saying your name. It's so amazing. Thank you for joining us for day two of ClarityCon. Welcome back, and we hope you enjoyed the sessions from yesterday. Took lots of notes. We have another very interesting keynote presentation this morning, and then we have the final breakout session for ClarityCon 2015. Just like yesterday, we're going to provide the CEU certificates as you exit the room. So make sure you're completing your surveys and handing them off, and we'll give you your CEU certificate. This is also, after this session, your last chance to visit those exhibitors. And they'll give you a little raffle ticket, and you can have a chance to win a free registration for next year. And we're going to go ahead and draw one lucky winner now. And you don't need to be present to win, right? So let's see who our lucky winner is. Let's hope it's legible. Georgiana Garza. You are a winner! So the surveys, again, you're going to complete, and then hand at the end. And then also, make sure that if you are looking for doctoral level licensures, that you're using the green sheets on your table. There's a few of you out there that are going after those types of CEUs, so you don't fill out the white sheets, you fill out the green. We'd also like to make sure we thank the people that made this conference possible. This is our third year doing ClarityCon. And we basically had 350 people registered for this year's event, which was so wholesale to people to attend for free. Because Clarity Child Guidance Center is a nonprofit organization, we feel like giving education is one of the gifts that we can give to people. So the only way we can help provide those gifts is by caring sponsors. So we'd like to start by thanking Methodist health care ministries of South Texas. And then yesterday's luncheon was provided by several folks. So that includes Community Bible Church, a longstanding sponsor, and Newstar Energy and the Grehe Family Foundation. Now, yesterday's luncheon by Senator Cree Deeds was an amazing opportunity for us to learn how another state is trying to take action and another passionate advocate. I had such the pleasure of taking him around San Antonio yesterday. He visited Clarity Child Guidance Center. He went to Center for Health Care Services Restoration Hope Center. He went to Haven for Hope. He just had a really packed day. It was really an information overload moment for him. But driving him to his dinner last night, I had the chance to ask him, what did you think about everything you saw today around mental health services, jail diversion, children's services? He said, I want to pick it all up and take it to Virginia. I want to pick it all up. So that's really a credit to everybody that's in the audience today. You're all a part of an important system of care. And I know we're really tough on ourselves, and we should be. We know where the gaps are. We know where the deficiencies are. We're working hard as a community to overcome them. But this is a really blessed moment for you to kind of take a step aside and say, you know what? Another state wants to take everything we're doing and implement it. So congratulations to you all. Now I'd like to introduce this morning's keynote speaker. David Epstein is a New Zealand therapist, the co-founder of the Family Therapy Center in Auckland, New Zealand. Did you hear that, New Zealand? And teaches at the School of Community Development, Unitech Institute of Technology. He, along with Michael White, originated what has become known as narrative therapy and community work. Listen to these titles of some of the books that he's co-authored. Biting the Hand That Starves You, Inspiring Resistance to Anorexia and Bulimia. Playful Approaches to Serious Problems, Narrative Means to Therapeutic Ends, and many other publications. Now I want to focus a second on New Zealand. How cool is it that he lives in New Zealand? I think of rolling grassy hills. I think of Lord of the Rings. And I'm sure you've all got some favorite characters from Lord of the Rings. Nay, I say more than Viggo Mortensen, ladies. But truly, my favorite character is Gollum. So it's always been my dream to be at a podium and say, my precious. So back to David Epstein in the moment that he just gave me. He was, in 2002, recognized by a special award for Distinguished Contributions to Family Therapy. And in 2007, the American Family Therapy Academy presented him with a Distinguished Contribution to Family Therapy Theory and Practice Award. Please join me in giving a big Texas welcome to David Epstein. I've got some backup singers here. So you'll see. Join me shortly. To deliver a plenary address to such an august body of this, I assumed a responsibility to think beyond what I had thought about so far. I did so to show my gratitude, as I have taken your invitation to address you as an honor. And I confessed to having lost many nights sleep thinking how I might try to live up to that. I had also met Mike Hannon, and in particular Liz Breitman, by correspondence. And I want to acknowledge them for their welcome and their hospitality long before I'd even caught my plane from Auckland, New Zealand to Los Angeles. So let me sketch my intentions for this address. I want to introduce you to the vocabulary and matters that I will be drawing from contemporary scholarship in philosophy, sociology, anthropology, and a smattering of literary studies. For that reason, some of what I have to say may be unexpected, but I hope by the end of my address that will no longer be the case. I am going to speak of moral character, moral agency, and genres or forms of representation of the other. But more importantly, I will be telling you the story of how I came to such concerns. Those seemingly chance events that afterwards you might say you were destined to realize, that somehow or other you were prepared for. What the scientist Louis Pasteur referred to in 1854 as the prepared mind. Pasteur wrote in this regard, did you ever observe to whom accidents happen? It is because in the fields of observation, fortune favors the prepared mind. My story, or perhaps stories, have to do with some of the accidents that happened to me and how my mind was prepared for them. And how this led me to consider how those we seek, our assistants, might be represented in ways that heartened them to engage the vicissitudes of their lives, or what we may refer to as problems, by virtue of their moral character. And with what results? Because I will admit to you, I was surprised as you may be to hear what I have to say. First, let me tell you about Maureen, age nine, and her mother, Beverly, who consulted my colleague, David Marston, in Los Angeles. And what we're going to read is an abstract of a transcript from our forthcoming book called Narrative Therapy in Wonderland, Connecting with Children's Imagine of Know-How. Maureen's step-grandfather had died from a heart attack only days after visiting Maureen's family, after which her world grew precarious. For six months and counting, she had not stopped thinking about his last visit, plagued by the idea that he might be alive today if only she had paid closer attention. Surely, there were warning signs. Of late, she had become increasingly preoccupied with the health and well-being of others, including her mother, grandmother, and younger sisters. Maureen went to bed most nights, accompanied by troubling thoughts, and awoke in the morning to a sense of dread. In recent weeks, she had taken to calling her mother at work to make sure she was all right, unable to wait for her safe arrival home. She had begun collecting mementos, e.g. movie ticket stubs and receipts, so if someone should die, she would have keepsakes of them. We are going to read aloud to you abstracts from the transcript of their meeting. Please join me in getting to know Maureen Beverly and their moral deliberations regarding loss, love, ethics, and consider their moral character in relationship to the problem. David, Maureen, has Wury been weighing you down? I guess. She's our sensitive child. She's the oldest, but the most vulnerable in some ways. I told her Nana has a cold. It's nothing. She and her Nana are very close in spite of the fact that my mother lives in Chicago. They email and we're going back this spring to visit. Mo is the most excited. Beverly, is Maureen's deep feeling for her Nana part of her sensitivity? Oh, there's no question. I wondered if that was the case. Beverly, can you tell me more about Maureen's sensitivity before Wury came into the picture? What was her sensitivity like? Gosh, the first thing that comes to mind is how much she's always cared for everybody, especially her two younger sisters. Sorry, where I'm? Are we at abstract three? Oh, sorry. Is it possible that Wury has been taking advantage of Maureen's sensitivity lately? Before Wury showed up, did you think of her sensitivity differently? Yeah, I thought of it as a gift in some ways. A gift? If it's a gift and not meant for Wury's purposes, then for what purpose might it be intended? For loving. What brings tears to your eyes as you're giving voice to Maureen's capacity to love? It's just that her capacity for love. She's my special girl. Maureen, are you especially gifted at loving? Yeah. How good are you at loving your Nana and your sister? Really good. And how do you explain it, being so good at loving? Because of when I was born. What do you mean? I was born close to Valentine's Day. Right, Mommy? That's right, honey. February 10th, you are our Valentine Week baby. Were you touched by love from the very beginning? I already knew how to love before I was born. If you could, would you give away some of your sensitivity? You can't give it away. But what if you could? Imagine if you had three wishes. Would you use one to be less sensitive? No. Why not? Isn't it harder this way? Yeah. Would it be better to care a little less, and that way you could still care, but not so much that Maureen was able to sneak in when something hard happens? No, it's better to care. Even if it hurts sometimes? Yes, because then you care more about people and they care more about you. But if you care more, how do you bear it when you lose someone? I don't know. Does Maureen take after you, does caring a lot run in the family? She does take after me, as a matter of fact. It's not the easiest road, I can tell you. And how have you lived with your sensitivity through the years? I'd have to think about that. I wish I could give her an easy answer. I appreciate your honesty, Beverly, and I have to admit I do not have the answer myself. Maureen, I want to ask you, but I don't know if it's fair to ask a nine-year-old question. But anyways, here goes. Is it worth it to care so deeply? Yeah. Can you try to explain it? What makes it worth it? It just is. I can't explain it. It's just better to care. Is your grandfather watching you from above? Mommy says he's in heaven. Is it possible he feels your love all the way from Los Angeles to heaven? He can see me. Do you think he sees what you're going through? Yeah. What do you think he understands? That I miss him. Why is it worth it to care as much as you do to have the gift of sensitivity when it comes at such a price? Because you get to have love. Beverly, do you agree with your daughter? Is this the bottom line? Is it all about love even when there's a cost? It is. She's my girl. Thank you. Do you wonder, as I do, what might have been prescribed for her if in the most recent round of the DSM such grief had successfully been declared to be a diagnostic entity with readily available and marketable pharmacology to pacify her? Would she, her mother, and David been able to engage her moral character with the problem that was besetting her and for Maureen to reach her decision that it's better to care than to consider wishing away her sensitivity to others? Would it have been possible for Beverly to now have reason to revalue it as a gift that she was bestowing on her beloved daughter when she was reassured that it is all about love even when there is a cost? After meeting with a very scholarly family on one occasion in Oaxaca, Mexico in 2004, Marguerite Boom wrote me an email telling me the meeting had had a signal effect on everyone concerned, even extended family who later had been invited to watch the DVD. Her proposed title for a chapter she was submitting was the Restoration of the Dignity and Honor of Our Family, a family that had been disgraced by the humiliating circumstances of the father's mental health crises and recurrent hospitalizations. Those were not entirely familiar terms to an English speaker like myself and perhaps that as much as anything else caught my attention. However, on reflection, Michael White and I had been considering something similar from our very first conversations when we met in the early 80s. And I, in fact, I found those Latin terms honor and dignity uncanny. By that time, we had encountered the American philosopher Hilda Lindemann Nelson's notion of respect worthiness, a word in fact that she invented for her specific purposes. It had not previously existed in the English language. By that, she meant the capacity for a person to convince themselves and others that they were worthy, firstly of their own respect and secondly of others. And furthermore, she strongly argued that such moral respect not only enables moral agency, but to exercise it more freely. This led me to return to the very beginning, especially when I chanced across Thomas Kuhn's History of Scientific Revolutions, which Michael and I had read and just about everyone else were reading in the early 80s. I decided to reread it. Kuhn proposed that every paradigm shift in science at any rate was consumed by a puzzle, which the inventors set out to resolve or at least un-puzzle. What was our puzzle? I asked myself, I thought this would be hard, but in fact, it didn't take long for me to arrive at the puzzle. I am going to call it the crisis of representation, which had beset the social sciences in the 70s and driven in the 80s and 90s by feminist, queer, disability and indigenous people's critiques. Both Michael and I found the existing mode of representation, which dominated our professions, was offensive, degrading, humiliating and above all else, stripped the person concerned of what I'm going to call their moral character. In fact, recently I met a woman now aged 39 at an undergraduate social training program at which I lecture who approached me to tell me she had met Michael once and me twice, 29 years previously in Auckland and it was because of those two meetings she was doing what she was doing. I easily recalled Leemory as a 10 year old suffering from anorexia and a hospital admission had been scheduled in three days time. Her family had requested an urgent meeting with me to see if this prospect could be averted. As it turned out, she commenced to eat immediately after our first meeting together. In fact, they had gone directly from it to a nearby chain restaurant. I met her and her family one more time in a month's time and Michael White who had been visiting Auckland joined me for this meeting. This is what she told me all those 29 years later. I knew that because I was able to get over this with my family's help, I could help others. But first I wanted to find a wonderful partner and have two wonderful children, which we have. Now that they're almost ready to go to high school, it is now time for me to do what I determined to do 29 years ago. And I remember every question you asked, especially the one about how caring and giving my granny was and how I might be taking her, taking after her. And I guess I am and I guess that's why I'm here today. She also told me her parents wished me well and wanted me to know that they had saved to this day, my and Michael's letters, which we had written them. Can you imagine my enthusiasm to recover these letters? I just want to read you my first letter to the parents dated March 20th, 1985. Dear Dawn and Cheryl, I'm writing to indicate to you both my respect for you as parents. I still believe that you provided the conditions for Lee Marie to face up to and overcome the anorexic lifestyle she was rapidly heading for. You deserve my congratulations. This of course does not mean there may not be the odd hiccup in the future. This is to be expected, but I have supreme confidence in you both to deal with anything that comes your way. Your daughter is fortunate to have such wonderful parents and it comes as no surprise to me that she herself is fully aware of this. I am honored to have known you and to see your family tackle such a problem that can cost many young women all or part of their lives, fond regards, David. If I hadn't realized before, this vindicated how such experiences contribute to young people's philosophies of being. Before I proceed, I would ask you to tolerate for a minute or two a very personal inquiry. Something I very much doubt you thought when you awoke this morning that you might be considering during not only this, but any of today's conference workshops. Imagine this if you will. You have lived a very long life, 70 or 80 years or more during which you have achieved much of that which you had aspired to do according to the purposes you had for your life. You know that the time that remains to you is short, although you are not experiencing any pain or suffering at all. You determined to advise those who will organize your funeral how you wish to be known by those whom you expect to be in attendance, immediate and extended family, close friends, colleagues, et cetera. Let me put it another way. How you wish you and the life you have purposely lived to be represented. You know only too well there are very distinct genres or modes of representation. Would you prefer that those you select to represent your living of your life to do so according to your moral character, your moral virtues, or would you rather arrange for a post mortem, psychiatric assessment that will be read out as a representation of your life. If you are like me, you will find this a very easy choice. You will want to be represented in terms of your moral character, your moral virtues. Why is this so when we professionals spend so much of our time representing the people who consult us in a very particular and specific genre of representation. This form of representation which has markedly grown in influence over the last 50 or so years has little or no reference to such matters as moral character or moral virtues. The terms you and I would have wished to be known by. From here on, I will refer to this mode of representation as pathologizing and the one you chose for your funeral obituary as characterizing. By the same token, have you ever sought to know those who consult you in the same way you would seek at the end of your life to be represented and known? And if you did, would they come to know themselves any differently than they might have otherwise? I know Michael White and I were at pains to resolve such a conundrum and resolve to know them in the same terms and by similar means to how we would want to be known. For them to be in Nelson's coin phrase respect worthy rather than blame worthy or shame worthy. An hour before I left to catch the plane, this book arrived, which of course I'd ordered. And you know, some coincidences are too coincidental to be coincidences. So this is a book by Whitaker and Cosgrove, but I would just like to make sure you know where it emanates from. It emanates from the Edward J. Safra Center for the Study of Ethics at Harvard University. And in it, they quote an author called Sam Criss who wrote a review of the DSM-5 as if it was a novel. And this is what he says. This is a story without any of the elements that are traditionally held to constitute a setting or a plot. A few characters may make an appearance, but they are nameless, spectral shapes, ones that wander in and out of the view as the story progresses, briefly embodying their various illnesses before vanishing as quickly as they came. A sufferer of major depression and of hypochondriasis might eventually be revealed to be the same person, but for the most part the boundaries between diagnosis keep the characters apart from one another. The idea emerges that every person's illness is somehow their fault, that it comes from nowhere but themselves, their genes, their addictions and their inherent human insufficiency. We enter a strange shadow land where for someone to engage in prostitution isn't the result of intersecting environmental factors, gender relations, economic class, family and social relations but symptoms of a conduct disorder. If there is a normality here, it's a state of near catatonia. DSM-5 seems to have no definition of happiness other than the absence of suffering. The normal individual in this book is tranquilized and bovine-eyed, mutely accepting everything in a sometimes painful world without ever feeling much in the way of anything about it. The vast absurd excess of passion that form the raw matter of art, literature, love and humanity are too distressing. It's easier to stop being human altogether to simply plot on as a heap collection of diagnoses with the body vaguely attached. The philosopher Aristotle, who lived between 384 and 322 BC, way back in Book I, Chapter 9, in the study of rhetoric, also posed two parallel modes of representation. He called them the base and the noble by which he attempted to distinguish between virtue and vice. He wrote, we now have to consider virtue and vice, the noble and base, since these are the objects of either praise or blame. The noble is that which is both desirable for its own sake and also worthy of praise. If this is a tradition of definition of the noble, it follows that virtue must be noble since it is both a good thing and also praise worthy. The forms of virtue are justice, courage, temperance, magnificence, magnanimity, liberality, gentleness, prudence and wisdom. I want to now turn to medical anthropology and literary theory before we proceed any further to introduce you to another distinction between characterizing and pathologizing. I am referencing E.M. Forster here in his classic Aspects of the Novel, published in 1927. According to Forster, flat characters in their purest form are constructed around a single idea or quality, what we might refer to as a diagnosis. Once they are identified as such, the flat characters never waver, they do exactly what they're supposed to do, no more, no less. A flat character, Forster notes, can be described in a single sentence. Round characters by contrast, possess multiple qualities, shadowy ambiguities, and outright contradictions. Most importantly, round characters are capable of change unlike flat change, unlike flat characters. I realize now this dilemma of two conflicting modes of representation, the pathologizing which draws only upon one's vices and flattens one's character if not stripping it naked to a caricature. Characterizing draws upon one's virtues to engage with one's vices, and according to Aristotle, is always the moral of a story. Arthur Frank, let me have us consider another distinction, which I hope will also serve my purpose as well. Here I'm drawing upon Arthur Kleinman, psychiatrist, anthropologist, professor of medical anthropology and global health and social medicine, and professor of psychiatry at Harvard. He writes in his classic book, The Illness Narratives, the contribution of professional orthodoxy to inadvertently heighten the passivity and demoralization of patients and their families is all too common. He argues that not only do the effects of disease demoralize patients, medical treatments itself demoralize. Arthur Frank, the Canadian sociologist and himself a cancer sufferer, then went on to distinguish between demoralization and remoralization. Demoralization for him referred to the dehumanizing experience of people on being admitted to a hospital, feeling they were being reduced to an object of medical inquiry and treatment. In narrative terms, these people with stories of fear and woundedness found themselves renamed as an element in the hospital's story of inquiry, diagnosis and treatment. Remoralization, he says, refers to the process by which patients regained their humanity, particularly through being central to the story they were part of. Let me put it another way, being a character in their own life instead of being deleted or turned into a nobody or an everybody. So, let me tell you how fortune favored my prepared mind in 1994. On previous flights, traveling from Detroit to Boston, traveling from Detroit to Boston seemed over soon after it had begun. Nothing could have been further from the truth than on this particular winter's day. The first sign that all was not well was the continual delays of the flight and learning from my fellow passengers that there was a blizzard up and down the east coast and that Boston was at the heart of it. Finally, we boarded the airplane only to be told we would not be taking off for Logan Airport until air control informed the pilot that we had a designated cleared runway. Apparently, the crews there were only able to keep one runway open and they did not want planes circling the airport for fear of a collision. In the most upbeat voice you could possibly imagine, a flight attendant announced we were going to have fun in the meantime. They obviously trained for this, let me tell you. I had no idea how different it was to sit for a few hours in a stationary airplane than flying in the air and how many people experienced claustrophobic fears as a consequence. After an hour or more, the knuckles of the passenger seated next to me started turning white from holding on to her armrest so tightly and as well I could hear her starting to over breathe. I rushed to her rescue by engaging her in a conversation to distract her and myself from our surroundings. Well, we did finally reach Logan Airport eight hours later than our scheduled arrival time. During this period, I'd worried myself sick about arriving on time as I knew that my sponsor was expecting 100 plus attendees at my two day long workshop that would begin the next day. Still, arriving at my colleague's home at about 10 p.m., I presumed that now all would be well. However, almost immediately the bad of my flight turned to a worse. Sally Ann, my sponsor, asked me to phone Linda from her training group about the family she had arranged for the live family consultation tomorrow as, quotes, it's a psychiatric emergency. In the nicest possible way, I questioned Sally Ann about such arrangements as I knew nothing about them. Sally Ann turned and went to her computer and returned with a hard copy of an email of mine explicitly asking her to arrange for a live interview on my first day. I pleaded with Sally Ann, this would be impossible for me as I'm a wreck and it's a psychiatric emergency, I'm not up to it. Sally Ann sympathetically suggested then that I'd better phone Linda right away. Before I did, I retired to the toilet either to vomit or if I could avoid that to give myself a moment to consider my situation. Almost immediately I had a flash of inspiration. I phoned Linda and began by asking her not to tell me what the problem was until she heard my proposal. I told her if I knew the problem, I suspected I would feel required to respond urgently tomorrow morning. My proposal was that given my stressful flight and uncertainty about arriving at all, I could only count on myself as, quotes, 50% of a therapist. I requested she propose the following to the family, that since we have two days scheduled for the workshop and I am 50% of a therapist, would they be willing to come two days instead of the one and that by the end of the two days they would have experienced 100% of a therapist. Linda returned my call not long after saying the family appreciated my situation and that arrangement would be fine with them. My relief was short lived as now I had to think about how I would get through an hour long interview without knowing what the problem was. How could I make this interview highly pertinent to a family in a psychiatric emergency at the same time as holding the interest of 100 attendees who had come expecting a live interview. No one could possibly stretch the pleasantries of just getting to know you variety over that length of time. It is well known that necessity is the mother of invention and if I was ever required to invent something quickly tonight was the night and tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. would be its testing grounds. There was not much time and despite everything on my mind, my exhaustion led me to sleep. However, I awoke with some resolution of my dilemma. How about holding an interview in which you get to know people metaphorically against the problem rather than with the problem. Essentially, I chose an inquiry that by implication would ask of them what they collectively had to bring to bear it to the matter of hand, the psychiatric emergency. What different types of histories could be made available to this family and myself that would very likely be at odds with the pathologizing histories that would be commonplace such an interview as this. I formulated my question as this. Today, can I get to know you outside of the problem so we can all know what you've got going for you to put against the problem that is besetting you and tomorrow we will find out everything there is to know about the problem. Although only concerned with meeting the exigencies of the situation, the best way I could think of, I had no idea at the time of the radical nature of such a proposal. In fact, in some ways, I was turning the conventional order of the 200 plus year convention of the clinical interview, e.g. what is the problem and what will we do about it upside down or backwards. Here I was asking first, what have you got to put against the problem with what is the problem to follow? As one father said near the end of such an interview, David, you're telling the story backwards. I had no idea whatsoever at the time that this would lead to anything other than saving the day. But my circumstances serendipitously forced me to think otherwise and to come up with something I had never ever done or ever considered ever doing before. In retrospect, I think of it as an unusual natural experiment, but there was more to come that made this an extremely unusual experiment. On meeting, we immediately negotiated what must have seemed a rather unusual arrangement and the family gave their wholehearted consent for me to proceed. If you come to my workshop later on, we'll watch this video. I now had ahead of me the luxury of an hour-long interview in which the way had been ethically cleared to specifically concern ourselves with revealing what they had to put against the problem. Essentially, this was to be their side of the matchup with the as yet unknown problem. Oh, unknown problem, to me, they knew it well. But now they had the right to go first. This would be familiar to to many of us as akin to a pre-game sporting summary in which a commentator matches up the competing teams on the basis of this predicts the outcome of the match. I was determined to lavish every possible means at my disposal to represent this family as a worthy adversary to the psychiatric emergency they were facing, which remained totally unknown to me at this point. Now, as it turned out, the problem was no longer merely facing them with their heads bowed in shame or indignity. Perhaps now they might return the gaze of the problem rather than merely seeing themselves through their family's restored dignity and honor. Might they see themselves differently through such an interview format? Still, to be honest, what was primarily of concern to me was just getting through this hour-long interview. To my delight, it turned out to be entirely different than my forebodings. In fact, serendipitously, I had chanced upon the way I wished to get to know people as respect worthy rather than pathological. Each member of this family was able to impress themselves on me in ways that would have been quite impossible through the format of the questions of a conventional clinical interview. In fact, I came away thinking that I was both fortunate and honored to know each and every one of them. Solidarity had been engendered between us rather than the splintering them of them into individual parts through the individualizing bias of clinical interviewing. In many ways, this hour was somewhat akin to what the Harvard sociologist, Sarence Lawrence Lightfoot, refers to as the art and science of portraiture. This is how she describes it. I wanted to develop, I wanted to create a narrative that bridged the realms of science and art, merging the systematic and careful description of good ethnography with the evocative resonance of fine literature. I wanted the written pieces to convey the authority, wisdom, and perspective of the subjects, but I wanted them to feel that the portrait did not look like them, but somehow managed to reveal their essence. I wanted them to experience the portraits as both familiar and exotic so that in reading them, they would be introduced to a perspective that they had not considered before. And finally, I wanted them to feel seen, fully attended to, recognized, appreciated, respected, and scrutinized. I wanted them to feel both the discovery and generosity of the process, as well as the penetrating and careful investigation. The remedy then was, for me, to structure in time and space an absolute divide between the family and what it might bring against the problem, and the problem and what it had brought in its turn to the family. To reorder the usual sequence of a clinical interview in acknowledgement of my exhaustion, and to once again divide this into two separate meetings considering each meeting to, in fact, having constituted half of an introductory meeting. With this, I summed up what was to be considered as merely half of the first interview. Well, now we know what you've got individually and as a family to put against this problem that is besetting you. And tomorrow we will learn all there is to know about the problem. I can recall just how much I was anticipating the second half of this interview. Whatever the problem was, I had felt it shrinking as the family's dignity and honor increased. This was interrupted later that day when Kathy rang to say that they had been called away to a funeral of an uncle and consequently were canceling the next day's proposed meeting. Many in the audience were concerned about what had transpired and there was considerable debate. Given the contentious nature of these interviews, the one the family had attended and the one they had canceled, it was extremely fortunate that Linda had already scheduled a visit Monday evening at 7 p.m. The interview had taken place on Saturday at 10 p.m. What happened? The psychiatric emergency was their 13 year old daughter's two month long conviction when she awoke on school days that she was blind and consequently unable to see and unable to attend school. Despite several nil diagnoses from ophthalmological consultations. On Monday, she awoke and without further ado went to school. Her mother was completely satisfied with this outcome. The emergency was over. I suspect if I had had the second half of the interview, I would not have been able to grant such an effect to merely half of what I intended. Merely an hour long inquiry as to essentially what was wonderful about each and every one of them in their relationships. But there was more to come, but my mind was now well prepared. Not too long after this meeting, after returning to New Zealand, Merey rang me in tears to form more in me what I might expect when I met her husband Jim and Billy, her husband Jim and Billy, their 11 year old son. Billy was in trouble in just about every arena of his life. He had been kicked out of his school class after his teacher had taken to shunning him by either having him face the wall or turning away from him on every other occasion. Jim by the same token had renounced Billy as his son. It was now consulting a lawyer to write him out of his will. The Auckland Regional Authority, which runs public transport, had already spent $70,000 on legal fees to take legal action against him, to deny him the right to travel on buses. How could a young person be in quite so much trouble? I tried to respond to Merey, who by now was sobbing inconsolably when she wondered if Billy was a hopeless case by assuring her that nothing was impossible. But now I did not have the luxury of an entire hour long session to relish his and their wonderfulnesses. However, in the meantime, I had coined the phrase wonderfulnesses as a general description for their virtues. You won't find it in any English dictionary yet. But I was now determined to see what we might do in just half an hour. I knew this was not going to be an easy feat, given that Jim seated himself so that he was unable to meet eyes with Billy. I directed this comment to Merey and Jim. Look, I don't want you to think I don't consider Billy's trouble as a matter of great concern. I then turned to Billy, who was shame faced, and said, Billy, if I were you, I wouldn't want to meet a stranger like me through the trouble, the trouble has got you in. Jim and Merey, do you mind if I get to know your son through how you knew him before he got so tangled up in trouble? Billy for the first time raised his downcast eyes to meet mine, staring at me, somewhat bemused through his hairy potter glasses. Both Jim and Merey, not knowing what was to follow, still gave me their consent to proceed with my inquiries. I turned first to Merey, Merey, what would you like me to know about Billy that proves you are a wonderful mother, or at least the kind of mother you dreamed you would be when you were pregnant with Billy? Her response took some time and consideration, but when she did, she mentioned the word kindness. Could you tell me one story about Billy's kindness that would be worth a hundred stories in that from such a story, I would really deeply understand what you mean when you say he is kind. She responded eagerly, telling a story of how when some Kosovar refugee children came to his school, he had gone out of his way to befriend a classmate despite the barriers of language. And he'd even gone so far as to invite this boy home to meet his parents. Her disconsolation now gave way to a measure of pride. I refused to leave the matter there. Turning to Jim, I asked Jim, is he by any chance a chip off Merey's block? His smile tinged with pride told me I was right. He told me of all the quotes lame dogs she had cared for, including an elderly neighbor for whom she provided meals on a daily basis. When I asked Merey if it was an accident that Billy showed such exquisite kindness to his Kosovar classmate, she was willing to admit that this was very unlikely accidental. Jim said it was entirely predictable, given that Billy had witnessed his mother's caring ways day in and day out. It was early in our summertime in hot, Jim was wearing a short sleeve t-shirt. Noticing a tattoo of a military regiment on his shoulder, I asked if he had been in the military he had and took great pride in that. Jim, I asked him, do you drink down at the return serviceman's club every so often he did? You know when your mates are bragging about their sons and it comes around to your tune, what would you brag about Billy before he got into so much trouble? He thought for a moment and said, creativity. Jim, by any chance did he inherit that from you? Jim was pensive, shaking his head before there was a gleam of recognition. Not from me, but from my brother. In a lengthy discussion, I learned that his brother earned his livelihood as a commercial potter but in his spare time did sculptural commissions. Jim, how does Billy take after his uncle in terms of family creativity? Jim no longer shunned Billy but spoke kindly of his storytelling and paintings that he'd been doing since he was quotes just a toddler. When I asked if he had saved any of his early works, Jim looked chagrined as he told me that in his repudiation of his son and his desire to write him out of his will, he had recently thrown them all out in the rubbish. These discussions which were far more detailed than I've told you had taken approximately 30 minutes. Billy for the first time interjected and what he had to say confused and then stunned us into a momentary silence. He said, let's go home. It's all over. I have just stopped my trouble. There will be no more of it. Marie and Jim both turned towards Billy looking as if they were hearing things and continued to stare at him. I tried to save the day by asking Billy what he possibly could mean by making such assertions. Billy, are you trying to have your mother and father believe that you have renounced trouble? After all, there is not much more trouble a kid your age can get into from what your mother told me about over the phone. Billy peered at me as if I wasn't getting his point. Yeah, but it's over. I'm not going to do it anymore. He declined. I turned to Jim and Marie, both of whom still seemed in a state of shock. Surely Billy has got quite a job on his hands to prove to both of you in a school teacher that he means it. They agreed that this would be considerable undertaking on Billy's part. Billy, do you think everyone will just take your word for it or do you think you'll have to prove it to them? Billy conceded that it was certainly unlikely that either his father or school teacher would believe him, although he stood a better chance with his mother. Billy and I then went to work preparing a letter to take to his teacher with his willingness quotes to put myself under pressure rather than putting pressure on you. I'll ask you some questions and you answer them, then we will agree what you want me to type up in your letter to your school. We came up with a long list of measures he was happily willing to take if he failed the pressure if he was more than willing to endure. I am happy to report when we met one month later that his new teacher had declared him as entirely unproblematic in an unwritten letter. It read as follows, I have seen no evidence of any problems whatsoever. I am enjoying his company in room 15 and find his academic work well up to standards set here. When I asked them to give me an account of this, Marie said, it was the most lovely thing that ever happened in my life. Jim concurred, it was as if someone turned on the light and he told me he had dropped his case with his lawyer to remove him from his will. But Billy had the last word in our discussion and it was certainly a thoughtful one. He said, turning 12 changed me. I said to myself, let's try to make the most of the term so I can leave a good reputation behind me when I go to high school next year. I never learned what the problem had been. It just seemed too beside the point to even ask. What time does my address go to? 35 more minutes, thank you. So far, I had found as a consequence of these two natural experiments that establishing the moral character of the young person and genealogically relating it to the family, culture and community they came from had meant far more to the problem than I could possibly have guessed or anticipated. In the case of Billy, the problem seemed to vanish instantaneously. Whereas in the case of Katie, the 13 year old, it seemed to disappear overnight. Day in and day out over the next 10 years, I experimented with the prospect of finding ways to actively engage young people's wonderfulness as expressed in their talents, abilities, visions, morals, commitments, family traditions, and in general, using rather the Aristotelian word, their virtues, in some sort of relationship with the problem. With much of the time that remains, I would like to tell you about Jan and Rob and Kelly, their 10 year old daughter. I would also like to show you what such a conversation over eight meetings looks like by abstracts from the transcripts. Could you put the transcript up? We're just going to start, and I don't know how many of this I'll be able to show you, but time will determine what we can look at. Jan and Rob were beside themselves with concern that their 10 year old daughter, Kelly, had a, quote, obsessive compulsive disorder. They based this on the fact that she was spending hours on end in the toilet, and requiring them to buy toilet paper by the case lot. All their efforts to talk her out of the problem, let alone out of the toilet, failed as she would become, quote, hysterical if they tried to incite her to the toilet. They tried to interfere with what they referred to as, quote, her rituals. Their concerns were shared by Kelly's school teacher who had beseeched them to, quote, get some help for her before it is too late. Also, because this was a one toilet family, yes, oh, we forgot to do it, Kelly. We haven't started yet, so. You always think you thought of everything, but I just forgot one thing. Also, because this was a one toilet family when Kelly took up residence in the toilet and would not come out no matter what, her parents were becoming extremely inconvenienced and had to get a bucket for their use at such times. But this was a mere frustration compared to their concerns for what was becoming of their kindly, but, quote, sweethearted daughter. I learned of a recent occasion when Kelly's girlfriend came over on a Saturday afternoon to hang out together. For a shy girl, Kelly cherished these occasions when she was able to entertain her friends on her home ground. Her mother told how she literally was beside herself an hour or two before they were to arrive, peering out the window or continually asking her mother for an update on the time. Jan, her mother in particularly, loved over here and Kelly and her girlfriends, quotes, chirping away in her bedroom or TV room like a box of birds. It's a lovely expression, isn't it, a box of birds? She admitted to just keeping out of their way and sight at such times as she derived so much pleasure from doing so. At such times, her fear about Kelly's future were allayed. However, what Jan had put so much hope into came to a sad and seemingly dead end almost overnight. Even with her girlfriend's end on hand and ready to play, Kelly was required to retire into the toilet. Her girlfriends, after waiting what seemed an inordinate amount of time, called their parents to come and pick them up. Her girlfriends then were reluctant to come and Kelly was now reluctant to invite them back. No amount of parental encouragement could change her mind. She was adamant that she would never invite any friend over ever again as long as she lived. Jan and Rob were heart-sick over what they saw as, quote, our last hope for Kelly coming right and they reluctantly had to admit that, quote, this is beyond us. The meeting began with Jan dutifully informing me that I should not expect Kelly to say anything. Turning to Kelly, she said, you don't speak to strangers, do you darling? Kelly seemed relieved by her mother absolving her of any responsibility to speak for herself. This was in no way inconvenient as we began with the wonderfulness of this inquiry. However, Kelly was willing to nod yes or no to indicate her agreement or disagreement of any claims made by her parents to her wonderfulnesses. Pertinent for what was to follow was this particular wonderfulness, the virtue of caring for others. This is how I summed it up in the transcript. Kelly, I know your mom and dad have just told me with such respect in regard about your wonderfulnesses, especially that you have the virtue of caring for others, including those younger than yourself and smaller than yourself, like cats, dogs, goldfish, right down to spiders, despite the fact that so many people, even adults are freaked out by spiders. In the story, they told how you went along with your young cousin, Amelia, when you had to go to the outdoor toilet, when you were camping on the beach last summer and rescued all the spiders and freed them outside so that no harm would come. There, here is the genealogy I tracked down about the wonderfulnesses of the wonderfulness of to the family tradition. And I learned that your care and love for others has been passed down from your grannies on both your mom and dad's sides of the family. Both grannies are well known for lending anyone in need a helping hand at your churches and in your neighborhoods. Your mom and dad said caring missed out their generation, but you are an exact chip off your granny's block. This is an abstract from a transcript of the conversation that occurred about 45 minutes into our first meeting together after Jan and Ron brought the loss of her girlfriends to my attention. But now I was no longer a stranger as Kelly would respond to my queries. So we got abstract one there? Okay. David, Kelly, what do you think of the problem shutting you away in the toilet and having your girlfriends miss out on the fun usually have when you have a play date together? Kelly, looking humiliated and speaking in a disconsolate poem, I don't know. Say you were on your own playing with your girlfriends, what do you think would have happened? We would have had fun. What kind of fun would you have had? Play fun, talk fun, joking fun, or just plain 10-year-old fun? Kelly, she now appeared to be coming out of a trance, especially when she was filed when responding. 10-year-old girl fun. I am so much older than you, what do 10-year-old girls get up to these days to have fun? I don't want to talk about it. She looks disconsolate again after her spirit seemed to rise at the beginning of this sequence of questions. Giving Kelly a timeout, I turned to her parents. Jan, what kind of fun would you have expected Kelly and her girlfriends to have? Jan, I can't tell you in words how much fun they might have had, but they would be chirping away like a box of birds. What kind of birds, Jan? Laughing, canaries, budgies, perhaps even twoies. David, as Kelly's mom, did it do your heart good to overhear this box of birds chirping away under your roof? Boy, did it ever. How about you, Rob? Rob, for me, it was more than their chattering, it was their laughter. We don't hear Kelly laugh very often, so it did my heart good to hear her and her mates laughing out loud. David, Kelly, do you mind me asking you if this problem killed your joys with your friends? Kelly, what do you mean? Do you know what a killjoy is? Jan and Rob, do you know what a killjoy is? Rob, readily coming to my rescue. Yeah, sure, a killjoy is someone who hates people having fun, and I guess kills her joys. That sounds about right, but should we look it up in the dictionary? I consult the Oxford Concise Dictionary, which I have handy for such purpose. Here it is, one who spreads gloom over social enjoyment. What do you think, Kelly? Kelly, somewhat more engaged as this conversation has now taken an unexpected tack. Yeah, I suppose so. By the way, everyone, is that a good way to refer to this problem, or can you think of a more apt description? Jan, that's really good, David. Rob, spot on, I'd say. David, how about you, Kelly? I suppose that's right. If after giving it some thought over the next week or two, you come up with something better, will you send me an email and let me know? Kelly, okay. Why I am mentioning this as I am feeling sorry for the killjoy problem is it must be full of gloom and not have a clue about having any sort of fun. In fact, as your dad suggested, this problem seems to hate people having fun like you and your girlfriends. Can you imagine what it must be like for your problem to only know gloom and doom? Kelly, do you in any way feel sorry for this killjoy problem? Kelly, now speaking with a newfound measure of authority, I guess so. No fun at all would be no fun and to kill other people's joy isn't good. David, that's for sure. Would you be willing to lend the killjoy problem a hand and help it have some fun? I suppose so, but how do you do that? She nodded her head to the left in her query was quizzical rather than querulous. We had a lengthy discussion about how she and her parents toilet trained their dog Martha by showing her where to go and where not to go and that had just worked out fine. We arrived at a pedagogy of showing more than telling or at least showing first and telling later. Everyone contributed this discussion although Kelly did come to the fore. But Rob and Jan were always on hand to back her up with their own accounts of lending a hand to someone in need. Here we were outlining the engagement Kelly and her family might have with such a problem but here rather than toilet training it, she might instead show it how to have fun. From our earlier wonderfulness inquiry, I had also been informed that her auntie Sarah was regarded quotes as a laugh a minute. Whenever auntie Sarah got together with Kelly no matter how reticent or worried Kelly had been they fell about themselves with laughter. Our genealogical inquiries of her Irish sense of humor led us back generations all the way to Kilkenny County in Ireland. Rob regaled us with some really hilarious tales that were part and parcel of his family's history of their humor. The one I remember to this day was about a legendary great uncle who went around one night after a night in the local pub and nailed all his neighbor's outdoor toilet shut. You can see that could live on for 100 years. On further jocular inquiry we concluded that all the, although the killjoy problem did get around it mainly seemed to live in the toilet. And I suppose that told us where she might best undertake her mission to lend the problem a hand. Now we began transforming these wonderfulnesses into a family practice with Kelly obviously taking the lead. We all agreed that living in the toilet was not the most likely place for anyone or any problem to meet friends and have some fun together. By the same token we concurred that toilets were pretty lonely places because generally you use them one at a time. Abstract two, David. Kelly do you think we just have to go to where the problem lives that we can hardly expect it to come out into the lounge or living room for you to land it at hand and show it to have a good time? I suppose so. David, Rob and Jan, how many people do you estimate could fit in your toilet? Rob, getting the gist of the conversation and by now the parents' pained expressions were long gone. Three of us but it might be a tight fit. Is it possible to invite Auntie Sarah and squeeze her into the fun making? Jan, no, she actually lives in Tauranga which is a three hour drive. David, if she knew everything we had been talking about do you think you could call her on the phone and she could tell some jokes to you three and the killjoy problem. This way you would be feeding two birds with one worm. Do you know that saying Kelly? Kelly, somewhat perplexed but trying to get it to know. Don't worry about it, I just made it up. But let me tell you what I mean by it. You could catch up with your Auntie and laugh yourself silly and at the same time show the killjoy problem that life is not all doom and gloom. Would you be willing to lend the problem a hand so it doesn't have to go through its life as a misery guts? Jan somewhat anxiously awaiting Kelly's, will you do it darling? Kelly smiling with what I guess was anticipation of the task ahead. Okay, Jan and Rob said they would have no problem making the arrangements and finding a suitable time for showing the problem fun and connecting with Auntie Sarah. I admit, I couldn't wait to meet them next time. Sarah indeed had been hilarious and I suspect she had gone out loud to show the problem not only how to have a good time but to bust everyone's sides laughing. And Kelly was far more animated than I ever seen her telling me all about it, abstract three. David, Kelly can you guess if the killjoy problem has lightened up a bit since you and your family are showing it your Irish humor? Does any, are you any Irish people from Irish families? I'm married to one. And do anyone know what Irish sense of humor is? You do. I guess probably the best thing is pulling, phrase, everyone's always pulling everyone else's leg. Would that be fair? We'll talk about this later. I think so. David, why do you say that? Has the problem been able to go out of the toilet and get around a bit more and perhaps meet some other problems it could be friend? There sure are a lot of problems around these days, aren't there Rob? Sure are. Jan, and you know David, Kelly is having a lot more fun too. David, Kelly now that the problem isn't living in the toilet all the time and killjoying your fun, do you find you don't have to spend so much time in there keeping the problem company? Kelly smiling probably not as much but I still go to the toilet. Sure, but have you been showing the problem how to be fun company by having some fun and showing it how you do it so it can follow in your footsteps? Kelly was bemused and confused by my query but Jan and Rob were quick to point out a myriad of examples of their daughter getting out and around a lot more, regaining some of her old friends and indeed making a few new ones. I could tell from the look on their faces that they were experiencing considerable relief from this turn of events. They had had three or four what we referred to as comedy shows as they called them in the toilet. Could you go to abstract four? Got it? David, Kelly if there was 100% of your life what percentage would you say was fun filled? This is from session six and what percentage was worry filled? Kelly, yeah it's kind of half of the time it's good and half of the time it's bad so it's getting a lot better than it was and when I get tired they tell me I'm not making any progress and can't do this. David say before you were going to bed one night have you ever, oh she changed the name from Killjoy because it wasn't, she said that wasn't really nice she called it worries. Say before you're going to bed one night have you ever told the worries off? I remember your mother telling me she was very angry that the worries were stopping you from reading. Well with the reading it's getting better because oh no I want to keep reading this book is too exciting. Everyone laughed uproariously and coolly coolly and that is the same when I'm having fun. I want to have more fun. Jan tell David about what happened when Rosie visited. Kelly my friend Rosie and I were playing Pictionary and I went to the toilet and I got out pretty quickly and then we just carried on playing. David did this have to do with your preference for fun and friendship? Did this have to do with your teaching the worries to have more fun or a bit of both? Kelly maybe I think it was more the fun because Rosie and I were playing and having fun. David did the worries still try to make you worry? Well I think they tried even when I'm having fun they still try to make me worry and not come out. David what did you do so they don't kill the joys you were having with Rosie? Kelly I think I might have been ignoring them a little bit so they were still there telling me I should use more toilet paper but I didn't listen to them because I just wanted to get out and play because that is what I do. I will be thinking what I can do and what I can get over so that it will be fun when you get outside quickly. David if the worries knew you like Auntie Sarah knows you and your mom and dad know you do you think it's got the wrong person a possible case of mistaken identity when it thinks you're a worry word but your dad thinks of you quotes as full of life now and your mom thinks of you as quotes a sporty girl. Who do you think knows you better Auntie Sarah, your dad, your mom are the worries who do you think loves you the most? Kelly turning to meet her parents eyes and smiling they do both their parents tears tear up. David do you think you might also have to lend the problem a hand about being a loving friend and daughter once again she smiled at the prospect of yet another humanitarian mission. Several months passed by and we met one last time to wrap up in a discussion, in a detailed discussion Kelly thanks to her charitable nature had decided the killjoy problem was no longer a killjoy no longer a problem and the worries were no longer worrisome. Abstract five. Kelly now that the killjoy problem has retired from killing your joys and your family's joys do you think you should tell the problem off for doing what it used to do or do you think you should just forgive it? Kelly answering without her usual time given to consideration, no I want to forgive it. David why do you want to forgive the problem? After all this spoiled a fair bit of your eight year old fun, nine year old fun, 10 year old fun had it not at least that is what your mom and dad told me when we first met. Kelly it didn't know what it was doing it didn't really mean it. David really you don't say Jan and Rob have you heard this before? Jan and Rob is bemused as I was no Kelly I've forgiven it it couldn't have known any better it just didn't know how to have fun. David Kelly do you think a day will come when this retired problem will say thanks to you for lending it a hand? Grinning yeah I suppose so. We all parted company in the best possible good humor especially after we all agreed that if there was ever a time in the future when a problem tried to kill anyone's joys in this family they would just have to teach it a lesson similar to this one and if that didn't work we would reconvene and have a good laugh together. Leonard Cohen poet and singer was awarded the Prince of Asturias Literary Award in Spain in 2011 and delivered an address entitled How I Got My Song. Within it he tells how he got his voice he tells the audience. Now you know of my deep association and confraternity with the poet Frederico Garcia Lorca. I could say when I was a young man an adolescent and I hungered for a voice but I could not find a voice it was only when I read even in translation the works of Lorca I understood that there was a voice it was not that I copied his voice I would not dare but he gave me permission to find a voice to locate a voice that is to locate a self that is not fixed a self that struggles for its own existence and as I grew older I came to know that instructions came with this voice. What were these instructions? Never to lament casually. And if one is to express the great inevitable defeat that awaits at all it must be done within the strict confines of dignity and beauty. I believe we are under the very same ethical instructions. If we are to represent those who seek our assistance this must be done in the same strict confines of dignity and beauty. That those who seek our services when they face the vicissitudes of life a time when anyone would want to have available to them their moral character they should not have been stripped of it naked by us. I'm just going to finish by as I've got a few moments of another such relationship with a problem and this was the last of 10 sessions with a young boy who first met with a diagnosis of anorexia nervosa and this is what he writes. And he had written it and he brought it and I just want you to know how he stood there before me with his mother. Apology from anorexia to myself. I am writing this apology to myself because I know that even though I may dream about it even though I certainly deserve it even though you have stolen every pleasure that I had in my life I know you are so heartless, so shallow and so ruthless that you would never have the compassion or decency to ever make the apology that you have for so long owed me. So I have written it for you, here it is. David, his name was David. I am sorry that I've stolen your life from you. I am sorry for turning every pleasure you once had in your joyful life into an unbearable torture from your pleasure in eating to your pleasure in good company and sport. I made you hate yourself and see fault in everything that you were and did. I took away all your happiness and turned everything you found into a horrible deal. I sapped all your strength turning you into a lifeless body without a soul. I deprived you of all the taste you enjoyed and stole from you 15 kilograms turning you into an unhappy skeleton. I lied to you telling you I would make you happy and be an overall better person. When I did what you said, I was ruthless and pushed your face into the mud making you hate yourself and blame yourself for things that I had forced and tortured you into doing. It is obvious that it would be impossible to fix what I have done. There is no way that I can take back what I've done because I have terribly scarred and mutilate you. Mutilate you. All I can do is apologize and leave you and your family alone forever. I know I cannot make up for what I have done to you but I will do all I can to fix what I have done. I'm sorry what I have done and you deserve this apology and more. Yours truly sorry, Anorexia March 26, 2006. I'll finish there, thank you. Many of you in the audience know that the pinwheel is our symbol of hope and healing at Clarity Child Guidance Center. So a child in treatment has made this pinwheel for you, David. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and wisdom with us so beautifully. Now I'm not a clinician so I have some observations today from your presentation. I am no longer gonna say schedule, I'm gonna say schedule because it sounds so much more sophisticated. I love the phrase misery guts. I'm gonna have to work that into some conversations I have. I learned the definition of killjoy today and as a result I'm gonna be nailing some bathroom doors shut of people that I think are killjoys. That next scarf of yours is so multi-purpose. I don't know what else you've got in there besides jump drives. And then finally, I feel like we're all giving you an opportunity for a seizure today between my jacket and the scrolling on the screens. So thank you so much, David. We really appreciate it. Yes. Oh, that would be lovely. That would be lovely, we'd be happy to do that. Okay, so for next steps, what we wanna share for you is that David Session, his breakout is gonna be held in the Elm Room and you wanna make sure as we exit today to visit the exhibitors but now I have a very complex set of notes for you and then I'm gonna follow up with a summary. Dr. Dionos could not be here with us today. So his session has been canceled. He was originally in the Cyprus Room. So if you were gonna head to Dr. Dionos for Cyprus, we want you to know that now Cyprus is hosting Patricia Henderson's presentation. So if you're looking for Patricia Henderson, she is in Cyprus. If you are looking for Dr. Mason's presentation, it's gonna be held in Live Oak. Pretty much throw your syllabus away. So again, David Epstein's presentation will be in Elm. Cyprus is gonna be hosting Patricia Henderson's presentation. Dr. Mason is gonna be in Live Oak and Dr. Essary is gonna be in Red Oak Ballroom A. Now with that said, our team was like a little worried about the fact that you'd be really confused but someone competent, it's so appropriate. This isn't a Las Vegas casino, people. You're not gonna get lost. It's a pretty small event center. I think we can all figure it out. So with that, we wanna again thank our amazing sponsors that have given about 50 people the opportunity to attend for free today. And I will ask real quick, just everybody stay for a second, stay for a second. There's been months of planning going on. So if you're a volunteer, I want you to raise your hand and wave. I want you to stand and wave if you're a volunteer. If you are a core team member that has been planning this for months, I want you to stand and also wave your hand including you Selena Catala. Make sure to turn in your surveys in exchange for your CEU certificates. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you for ClarityCon 2016.