 that's the fact that you are live proves that your security is effective. If your security was not effective, you would die instantly. All right. Now people who hate you. I think the listener really wonders what the hell we were just talking about. All right. It's Thursday, December 6th, 2018. I'm Rick. I'm Scott. And this is Geek Nights tonight. You guys love these fucking food shows. So we're talking about food we don't like because it's Thursday. That's all set. And of course, I got a picture of Burger King up here because that's way below the line of food I will eat. So yeah. Ski season has started up. I might go skiing this weekend. My first ski trip of the year. Good luck on it. And the one cool thing is, you know, I live in New York, of course. Final episode of Geek Nights everybody. And the deal with New York is that there is in fact pretty good skiing within a like a day trip of New York City, not good skiing, not great skiing, but like pretty good skiing. And there are mountains in New York state. It snows here. It's north enough to be cold and snowy during half of the year. There are some mountains that are like a half hour away, but like there's literally no reason to go to them. Like that'd be like going to a roller coaster park that has one roller coaster. Like they're not and like a crappy one at that. But you get up north, the nearest mountains that are worth going to. There's Hunter Mountain and there's Wyndham Mountain. I've gone to Wyndham Mountain twice in my life. That place is such a garbage, like never go to Wyndham Mountain. What a piece of shit mountain. But is the actual mountain itself bad or just the company that owns the mountain is bad? So the mountain itself is okay. There it's about equivalent size to Hunter Mountain. It just has way less lift capacity. So that's way longer lines. But if you bought, so what if you bought Wyndham Mountain and like upgraded it and made it fancy? Yeah, except like turning an old bowling alley into a disco nightlight bowling out. So that could be possible. But basically the deal is that the investors who invest in the sector seem to have focused on Hunter Mountain and Hunter Mountain. Why are people investing in mountains? Ski resorts make a lot of money. How much money could they possibly make enough money to wear Hunter Mountain? Only open part of the year. Just cut. Well, they actually, they do stuff in the summer. Well, they're always trying to do stuff that out of season. Yeah, they do like music festivals. They're trying to do everything they can to make money from that real. Actually, when I saw meatloaf, it was a pine knob in, which was the ski mountain I learned to ski on as a kid in Michigan. I'm sure that's his most memorable performance. Hey, meatloaf, remember the time you put a concert at pine knob? I'm pretty sure what he would say is what is he still alive? I haven't heard him in a long, I haven't heard him in a long time. I assume he is still performing. Let's see. Meet. I haven't heard from him in years. He's not dead. I haven't seen news that he's dead. So I assume that he's alive, but I have not heard anything about him. I would know if he was dead. Just go to his Wikipedia. I'm going to. Yeah, I'm going to his Wikipedia to see if he is active. Years active. He's still active. What is he doing? Concerts. Where does the last concert? I'm going to find out right now. News. Let's see. What's his next concert? Loaf concerts. Autobiography tour. Oh, that's taught. Okay. Concerts. But I won't sing on his new tour. Okay. Okay. This is an article from July of this year. That's recent enough. Yep. Uh, let's see. I think he's the tour he is doing or did recently. He is not singing. What's the point then? Yeah. Why? Indeed. I don't know. I'll follow up. I'll find out if it's still possible for me to see me loaf in concert. Are you going to see me love play the piano? Yeah. See, he'll stand on stage. Just he'll just rev a motorcycle the entire time. But anyway, Hunter Mountain just built like a whole new side of the mountain. Like they cut a bunch of they built a mountain. They got the elemental stone is pulled new rocks out of the ground. So they basically they cut new trails into the side of the mountain that they weren't using. And they made a whole bunch of like blue square trails, which in US ski culture means intermediate trails, meaning the trails that normal people ski on, which means if I go to Hunter Mountain now, all the people who are only okay at skiing are going to be using this whole other side of the mountain with its own lift. And they're going to be out of the bottom of the mountain I ski on, meaning I can ski a lot more because it's going to be way less lines to get to the hard part of the mountain. Meaning it's going to be a real good time to ski there. And I'm probably going to go there this weekend. And it's ski season. I'm really excited. So if any of you want to ski with me at some point, I'll tweet when I'm going do not do this. Everyone who participates in any sporting event or activity with RIM always gets injured every time. The rule is very specific. Anyone who ever rides a bike with me in Australia is definitely going to the hospital. I would not ski with RIM either. You should not ski period, but definitely don't ski with RIM. That's the worst. No one who has been skiing with me has ever had to go to the hospital. One person who was skiing with me busted their thumb up pretty bad once, but required aspirin and like a half hour to chill out and then was able to ski the rest of that day and the rest of the trip. No one who has ever stayed at home. That was our friend Chris Rimer. No one who has ever stayed at home and played Smash Brothers this weekend has ever been out in the cold in the wet snow. I'll bet more people have died in the course of playing Smash Brothers that have hurt themselves doing a sports activity with me because they were playing with someone with anger issues to punch them out after they got there or they're just really bad at Smash Brothers. You know what to do this weekend. Yeah, it's warm and toasty by the fire. So anyway, the biggest news of course is that Tumblr has banned pornography and has implemented an algorithm to identify this pornography. And the algorithm is basically identified literally fucking everything on Tumblr except not season white supremacists. I've also heard that people are just going around and reporting everything even things that aren't just reporting literally every Tumblr post to sort of mess with the yes, which is brilliant and wonderful because the system they put in place to flag post is terrible. This is actually pretty big news like this is a pretty big deal. Tumblr just basically destroyed itself because it's not like there's a lot of weird angles. One angle is the main reason they're doing this is they got delisted from what like the Apple Store. They were in trouble because the main reason they did it is it was even the Apple Store ties into it. But the main reason they're doing this is because they want advertising money and advertisers will vote the big advertisers will not buy ads on a site with porn where their ad could be next to porn. Yep. And secondary to that, there is a lot of child porn on Tumblr. There is a lot of stuff on porn that is not good. Yep. But the problem is Tumblr never really put in any sort of system to in any way control the content on their platform. Nope. So now they're in a weird situation where they want this sweet sweet advertiser money. And the only way to do that is to basically remove porn from their system. But this is extra complicated by the fact that it's not just porn. It's basically the things that like bullshit basic advertisers would consider to be harmful to their own brand, which tends to include things like non pornographic LGBT content, or basically anything interesting. Like what is there anything sex related in any way. Yes, but also things that are not in any way sex related. Like the what do they say specifically female appearing nipples. No female presenting. Yes, female presenting. So if the person who has the nipples belong to is a female presenting person, regardless of their actual sex or gender or whatever, then those nipples are not okay. But those nipples are not presented in a sexual context. So even if there was a trans man who is presenting as male, their nipples, which are genetically female nipples originally, right? Those are okay. Because they're male presenting nipples. As long as they're male presenting. But there's the thing, the tumbler should not be weighing in on that kind of thing. And also there's an, I don't know. I think I've talked about in the show before. There's a great Instagram account that's literally just photos of individual nipples. And you have no idea the sex, gender or anything of the person the nipple belongs to. That's good stuff. That account is very good. But that nipple could belong to anybody. But the fact that like, particularly in particular American society and the kinds of people that these basic advertisers want to target, consider a female appearing nipple to be sexually offensive, irrespective of whether or not is presented in a sexual context, because they just assume that female nipples are sexual in all contexts. And also like they're like they flagged and have a history of flagging just anything that's LGBT related as being sexual, which is clearly not true. So tumbler is going to disappear as a platform. Well, I mean, the main, you know, the main problem is simply, you know, the same thing that upsets me always is that there is a wealth of important historical content that an information that will be destroyed, presumably. Yep. And we cannot save all of it for, you know, it's like a library of Alexandria situation. Just like when Geo cities went down, I saw the beacon go up and a sweater was like, what will happen to all these hilarious hentai gifts? Exactly. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, there should be some, there should actually be, you know, some sort of, you know, records preservation law that's like, Hey, if you start some service and collect a fuck ton of, you know, important works, you are not allowed to just, you must preserve them. Right. You are now, you are now required. And that may, that might disincentivize people from creating things like tumbler, because they will then be required to preserve those things for all time. Yep. But meanwhile, like the Geek Knights forum, it will trap everyone who has already created a thing. Remember the Geek Knights forum, the original one is still on the internet. We are paying money to keep it up as long as we can. I have all of Geek Knights and every, all our forum and everything have been preserved. Even the IRC channel, which I don't think anyone uses. I had like an automatic logging thing, saving all the logs from it somewhere, which is why I'm sort of anti discord and whatnot. Cause I can't do that on discord. I talked to discord developers at PAX. They said, no, you can't do that. Yep. We, we actually talked to them at length. If they had at that time, when I talked to them like two or three years ago, PAX West had said, yes, here is how to do that. We would be so discord right now. So the other issue that this brings up, because we can't cover this topic, like this would be a whole show if we went deep into these problems with tumbler. But one thing it brings up is the fundamental problem of the modern internet in that nobody has a monetization model that works. I do. You pay money. Pay for a site. If tumbler costs like a dollar a month, all these problems would have been solved. I would probably pay that's not enough money for them though. It would be so greedy. They want more. So here's the problem. Here's the problem. Number two, a lot of services in particular things like Twitter could eminently run at a modest profit indefinitely with very small subscription fees. The problem is those platforms exist originally because people invested money in these platforms and they expect massive returns and the money that these platforms could make in a traditional sustainable business model could never satisfy the terrifying greed of the people who invested in the first place. The other indictment that I have about this is that at no way tumbler now Verizon because Verizon Verizon by Yahoo or something, right? I forget. So white supremacist bullshit and Nazi stuff is not banned by this new policy. Nope, because advertisers don't care that much about that. In fact, they probably would like their ads to be alongside that content because that's the zeitgeist of America. So the only benefit of this entire situation is that I think with the death of tumbler, so too dies that particular tumbler call out culture because those people will have nowhere else to go. There's no other platform that will let them have their fights about how the head cannon they made up for some particular Steven Universe character. They could do on Twitter. But those people don't tend to and people ignore them on Twitter. Tumbler people will engage with them. I feel like that whole culture is going to disappear overnight and nothing will be lost. There is a new aren't there. There are some news sites, isn't there like a like a pillow, something or something? Even Pornhub was like, yo, come to our platform. We will help you out. Oh, yeah. People don't know this. I knew this for a long time and people were like surprised by it. But like the way Pornhub works is that you go there, you make an account and you upload images, text, videos. You just upload porn of whatever medium it is. Yeah. And then you just be pictures of telephones because that's your and then people find your porn and watch it. Right. And it's you're supposed to, you know, have legal porn that you upload, right? You're either a porn company that has set free samples of your legal porn with like links to your actual pay site or you're a person who makes porn at home and, you know, you've got the right paperwork so that you don't get in trouble because you prove that it's not child porn, you know, that sort of thing. You know, you set up a you do some live streams of yourself or your friends or who knows? You know, that's what it's supposed to be. But you can just make a Pornhub account even though your URL will be Pornhub and the site will probably have porn ads on the side of it. You can just upload whatever the fuck you want. You can upload your webcomic on Pornhub. You can upload Geeknights on Pornhub. Yeah. Fucking your lives. You can live stream your video games on Pornhub. And more importantly, their business model is that instead of Twitch, their business model is around sharing that revenue with the creators of that porn. Right. Because they make a lot of money on Pornhub. They got people signing up to pay for accounts and they also have a lot of ads for the people who don't have accounts, you know, ads for porn. But there's still ads that pay money. They're not ads for Coca-Cola. And then they feel like and they share that money. The first company like the people who make the content just like YouTube does. The first basic company like Coca-Cola who's like, you know what, just put my ads next to the porn is probably going to do really well in the long run. I don't know why it's like they're so worried about doing this because of a very, very small, loud number of people. But it's like, OK, that those what was the family, whatever group that the parents, the parents, television council. Yeah. All right. So they find out that Coca-Cola is buying porn, is buying ads on porn on the internet. And they have a letter writing campaign. It's like, then I guess I'm drinking fucking cocoa. No, they're not what they're going to go to Pepsi because Pepsi is the brand that's anti porn and pro white supremacy. Like, yeah, it's like how it works. They're still going to be drinking it. Right. It's like, they're still worried about these letter writing campaigns. Companies don't have the balls to fucking ignore it. When you know how many people it is, right? You know that it's just a manufactured thing. Why do they keep listening and obeying when a small number of people manage to organize? It's like, you know, you should understand the will of the quiet masses. Those are your market research. You're paying all this money for market research and you listen to a bunch of old ladies writing letters. Come on. But just this fundamental problem is that these all these internet services rely on revenue streams that literally cannot work in the real world. And we have not, well, we've solved this problem. We have not implemented any solutions to this problem. And this is only going to get worse. In some other news, I don't know how many of you are paying attention to what happened in in France, but there were the barricades went up and there were giant riots and fires and pitched battles and bullshit. Are you sure you're not reading a 200 year old news article? So I've been to Paris a couple times and all I want to say is that we don't think a lot about like how Parisians interact with their government, but the barricades come up more often than you realize. Oh, yeah. Like it's like that's how the history of Paris and you have this vision of like Jean Valjean and all this nonsense. No, that's their go to move. Yeah, that's like it's not a dramatization. Yeah, like that still happens today. And this was another one of those. You can read these articles because Geek Nights, we're not news, we're commentary. I hope you already know this was happening and I'm not going to explain like the details who the yellow vests are. But the reason this news is interesting is that the way right wing media is trying to spin this is that the common people of Paris rose up against this ridiculous environmental legislation because they have practical ideas about the economy. No, but that's not what happened. The problem is these kinds of laws like these fuel taxes or like in the New York City like right now once again, we can't afford to pay for our subway because of conservatives upstate. So we're forced to once again raise prices on metro cards to pay for the subway. The problem is if you tax the users of systems like the normal people, those people are the ones least equipped to pay and you don't actually solve the problem. You're putting the cost of taxing a global problem on your poorest citizens. You should tax the car people to pay for the train to disincentivize people from driving a car and make them want to take a free train. You should tax the rich people to subsidize the train so the poor people who have cars will naturally migrate to the mass transit. You tax the people who are causing the problem and the people who are causing the system of subsidies paid for by the rich people with the best interest in keeping this going. Anyway, read this news article and internalize it and if anyone tries to tell you that, well, two things. One, if anyone tries to tell you that these people were fighting against environmental regulation, they are lying to you and they probably read bad sites. And two, I feel like the U.S. could learn from this and I feel like if the left in the U.S. comes to the term, I just want to say that it is absolutely effective in cases where the forty three go to the center of government. The problem is, is that historically speaking, right, there are some countries like France or South Korea where protest has been effective, right? South Koreans, it's like they in the late 80s, they were still a military jade-ship they actually were able to change their government with student protests. In France, they also have been able to change their government with more violent protests and revolutions. In the United States, protest, while it has been, you know, totally cool, and many times it has not been nearly as effective. Here's an example. Occupy Wall Street didn't have an end game that was achievable and specific, nor did it actually cause enough problems for people to be forced to deal with it. The yellow vest thing to fucking shut down Paris. So the government had to do something. Occupy Wall Street should have shut down Wall Street. They're have rarely, very rarely has the US government or even more local governments responded directly to protests. Usually they quell the protest and then they continue with business as usual after things quiet down. So all I'm saying is if you didn't like really, that is why we don't have a culture of protesting more because it has to, when it works, then people keep doing it in places around the world where it works. People do it and it keeps working and they have a culture of doing it in the United States. We keep trying it and it doesn't, it's not as effective. Therefore, we don't do it more. So all I'm saying is don't just like gloss out, like don't just remember, oh yeah, something happened in Paris. Actually read a news article about this and think about what is different in that situation of what's going on here and make decisions accordingly. Like these protests are a big deal and a lot of people are trying to spin them in ways that are not accurate to the real situation. Last and not least, the, uh, my favorite people, the satanic church, are with the satanic temple. There's a bunch of different satanists. The best of all temples. The satanic temple is a pretty cool organization. Like seriously, yeah, there's, there's a lot of different kind of satanists, but these are the good ones. Yes, but they've been winning a lot of fights lately around putting up their satanic, uh, basically satanic. Listen, if you're going to invest in that badass fucking statue of bathroom out of it, whatever, you better get some fucking use out of it. And they sure as hell are. You're not going to just going to keep that shit in a garage somewhere. You know, you'll let the world see it. You know, let us, let us, uh, you know, behold its glory. The satanic temple is an example of very effective forms of protest because they're actually be like, it's working because here's what they do. They, anyone, someone puts up a Christian religious thing somewhere in a public space, like usually a manger. Yeah. Like a manger in a town square, the baby Jesus. Now I'm a, I'm an atheist, but that's fine. I don't care. People, I'm happy that people can express the religion of public space, but any religion has to be able to do that. But in most places, only Christians end up doing it. So the satanic temple will show up and say, we want to put satan there next to the baby Jesus. That's right. It's hard for them. It's very difficult for them to lose any lawsuit around this because of the first amendment. So as a result, the places that only have Christian stuff have basically two options. They either have to let the satan is put up their thing or they have to let nobody put up anything religious. Those are the only two legal options. This is like, you know, yep, unless you get some crazy Christian judge somewhere, but then you just appeal to the next judge. Even a ruined Supreme court has a hard time shutting this down. They're like, no, the Supreme court won't even hear that case. They'll be like, yeah, it's already, unless, unless it the, unless for some reason there's a crazy judge on this, the second to last appellate court or whatever that messed it up and was, you know, crazy Christian. So basically, and they got to fix it. Either all the religion in public spaces gets removed or religious freedom actually happens and any religion gets to show up. Those are both wins. Either one works. Yeah. Either no more majors. Sorry, you Christian people who are so mad about it, but you're all mad now. Ha ha. You can have your, we can laugh at you being mad or you get to put our badass, we got our badass satan right there in the town square. So this to tie this into the previous news activism where either outcome in court gets the actual goal to, to move forward is the best kind of activism. The satanic temple isn't just like funny and clever. It is very effective in the area in which it is working. What I'm saying is that in the United States, going in the street and yelling has not been as effective as it has been in other places. Yeah. But meanwhile, putting up statues of Bathman has been pretty effective in the narrow realm. Are there any other countries or people put up statues of Bathman? No, because like we're the only one with freedom of speech in our constitution. Yeah, we're also the only one, not the, not the absolute only one, but we're the only people have it. So we have a particular issue with Christian hegemony and there's a whole other thing that we don't have time to talk about because it's time for Kings of the day. So you know, when you see a picture of an old timey boxer, they're always holding their hands up in this like ridiculous position. Yeah. One fist forward with the other one behind it. And their fists are like up and they're like fist to cuff. So they've got to handle our mustache and that kind of thing. So here's a 10 minute long video. Too long. Just explain it to me in two sentences. It's actually complicated enough that it warrants a 10 minute video. It is way more complicated than I thought as to why they did it that way. I'll make a save you a click for it. So the best way I can describe it is that this was the fighting stance during that era of boxing. But the reason that was effective is that one, nobody wore gloves. So while you could technically punch someone as hard as you could in the face, you would probably break your hand permanently in the course of doing so. Yeah. So as a result, boxers wouldn't do it because that would end, they would win the fight and lose the career. Like they'd be over. They'd ruin their hand. So if they hit someone in the head, they couldn't hit them as hard as they could punch. So head hits weren't actually that effective. You could punch them straight in the front of the face. Even then that's tough to the style of fighting back then. Also allowed grappling. So if you just tucked in like this, the other guy could get way closer to you than you were comfortable with and potentially grab you. So you had to have the one hand out to keep them at bay with like little jabs and protect yourself and counter punch and the one hand back. So if they come in and you get in the right situation, you can do a full punch to the gut. And that other hand otherwise is protecting the gut, but there's actually more to this story than just that. This video is worth watching. So anyway, now if you watch this video, you will know why boxers stand like this. And also I just really like the aesthetic of people standing like this. I think it's hilarious. So what do you got? So here's some people and in their bathroom, they've got a rat in the bathroom and they want to get the rat out of the house. But they don't want to kill the rat. It seems like they don't want to use any of the methods I'm already aware of, even the humane ones such as the trap or the bowl full of oil or any of these other things. They don't want to hurt the rat. They just want the rat to be out of their apartment. They came up with a new way to get rid of the rat. And what's most interesting about this video is not only is it a great video of how they get the rat out of the bathroom and out of the house. It was posted in sports Reddit appropriately. Don't worry. The rat is not harmed other than being thrown out of his nice bathroom home and onto the outside. Yep. He bounces down the stairs a little bit, but he's clearly fine and just angry at the rat. I mean, if you're just a little rat, you're fine going down the stairs. Yeah, you're not a Scott falling free. If a river of Scott fell down those stairs, we would be dead. Yeah. A rat can go down those stairs like son of a bitch. And just like, ah, I wanted to go back to the bathroom, but this is happy in there. This is this is a gift that is an effect. A team sport. Yeah. In the meta moment, you know, the book of a book, which we've been busy, but we'll read soon is 2001, a space odyssey following out from Emily Wilson's translation of a America odyssey. Otherwise, we were just at the penny arcade expo packs unplugged version where it was no video games allowed where we did not one except for the illicit board games on SNES in the classic cardboard room. Don't tell me I saw people play in there like all packs. That looked real fun. Why not? You know, we played real unfortunate family field live. I feel like we should stream some family feud maybe over the holidays. Do it. I'll set that up. Anyway, are you working between Christmas and New Year's? Yes. I burned I have had two jobs in a row where I have where everyone gets off between Christmas and New Year and ram is at zero jobs when they when they announced that Wednesday was going to be a holiday because of George HW Bush's death and funeral and everything. I got an email like within an hour that basically said, yeah, wall markets are closed. We are not. Everyone still has to come to work. That's right. So I had to go to work. But if you're a trader though, uh, that's a different company technically. I know, but I'm saying I ain't a trader. There's nothing to do. You might be trading, you know, all the other markets that aren't in the U. S. Yeah. But even when the markets closed, unlike, you know, Labor Day, people don't go to work. Some people do. Okay. International trader. Anyway, so, uh, we, so we did three hours of panels at this packs. And one of them is already on the internet because packs was kind of enough to put that panel in the biggest panel room that was live, not main events. Yep. So we were live streamed on packs to and the VOD for that Twitch, Twitch.tv slash packs to. Yep. The VOD of that is just on the internet. You can just go watch it. That's P A X the number two, not P A X T W O. There is a link to it on our website. By the way, we have a website. You can go to it and there's stuff there, including our awesome forum, which you should join because the United's forum is notable in these trying times in that it is 100% Nazi free. It is against our terms of service to be a Nazi dipshit in our forums. And the way we do this is very simple because our forum is not enormous with hundreds and hundreds of people applying. We manually approve or reject every single person who wants to make an account. Meaning you have to type a sentence and it means if we banned someone, they cannot get back in. So if there's a Nazi, we can just delete their posts and kick them out the end. And if there is a non Nazi, well, you know, it's like, Hey, you're in. Good job. Yeah. It's a pretty good forum. You should join it. There's there's a lot of stuff going on in there. So we will be at the next Pax after Magfest where we're doing a bunch of panels. Stay tuned for that announcement. Magfest is so there's New Year's and then there's a Magfest and then Pax South is what two weeks after that. Yeah. And then Pax East is like right around the corner after that. Let me check my calendar. They are so close together. I got a lot of panels to write in like the next few weeks. But at Pax South, we were doing at least one panel and that panel is a brand new one never before done anywhere. Nostalgia versus game design. I'm starting to write it. I'm feeling pretty good about it. I is going to be a fun panel. This is going to be a lot like the panels we ran around like Pax West Pax East circa 2010 2011. It's like classic Geeknight style. I'm feeling this panel pretty big. Beyond that, except some live streams, expect some stuff going on. Stay tuned for on the Geeknight's Patreon. Me and Emily are going to be doing a parallel podcast where we're going to review and comment on every single Disney animated feature in chronological order from beginning to now. When's the last time it's us? No way. That's it. We're going to watch them all again. Okay. What we're going to do is we're going to we're going to record us recalling what we remember about them, which some of these will be funny because I haven't seen them since my age was in the single digits. And then we're going to watch them. Have you even seen all these? Have you seen Sleeping Beauty? Yeah. Ever. When I was a little kid. Have you seen ever? It's got to be something you haven't seen. Some recent ones probably. I never saw Pocahontas. Me either. Yeah, I just never saw it. I don't need to. I think I was in middle school when it came out. Going to keep it that way. I think it was in sixth grade. I want to say we've even played the music from it in the middle school band, but I had never seen it. That was my first. That was the first time I had to play a mellophone. Also fuck mellophones. It's like a harder trumpet. They're just not fun to play and they don't sound that good. So yeah, otherwise food. We hate. I don't know why you guys love these food shows so much, but I was looking for a show to do tonight and I haven't yet set up the call in show, which we will be setting up. We'll be doing those starting next year. Stay tuned. But we do a lot of food shows and there's a lot of food that hates a strong word, but there's food that we both will eat, but do not like. And there is food that both of us will not eat. So I'm curious. What's the line, Scott? What is the worst food bar now again? We're not counting about starvation situation. Let's assume that we are not starving to death. That we have access to food. It sounds like like one of those scenarios from like a Japanese adventure. There are nine doors. There are nine fast food restaurants and you will die in 48 hours. What puzzle do I have to solve to get the good food? Yep. So I had to play the game twice to get the really good food. Unlock the secret ending food. You've got to eat the Arby's on a Tuesday or it doesn't unlock the best ending. Okay. So we're assuming that we are not starving to death and that within 24 hours of whatever situation we're talking about, we could access better food. So I'm curious, Scott, what is the worst food you would eat? Lowest quality. Lowest quality or worst type of food. I mean, it just has to be because there are two different things I think. I mean, I'm not starving. So it means I can go without food. But like you like if like it's either you eat this food for dinner or your next meal is breakfast. So I'm so I'm still hungry. You're hungry, but you're not dying. Like you got to skip dinner or eat this food. What is the worst kind of food you will eat in terms of preference? Like food you don't like something I don't want to eat, but I'll eat it anyway. You'll like you'll you don't want to eat it. You don't like it. You'll eat it anyway rather than skip dinner. I think that's an interesting line to explore. I guess I won't eat a McDonald's. I would go. I would skip dinner before I did McDonald's. I definitely skip dinner before I eat Burger King. I wouldn't eat a Burger King either. I would never get a burger. I mean, I guess I might just eat a fry from McDonald's. Would you eat a fry from Burger King? It's a fry. It's it's like, you know, have you had a Burger King fry in your life? I mean, it's it's a very small amount of potato and hot oil. Well, it's not really any different than getting a fry from any other, you know, other places might have more potato or better oil. So I would not eat a McDonald's like dinner. Like a burger or anything they make. Absolutely. But I would eat a McDonald's breakfast or even a McDonald's hash brown in that situation rather than skip dinner. But I would not eat a McDonald's hamburger McDonald's has McDonald's has an apple you can get. So an apple you need an apple instead of dinner. Yeah, it's an apple. I think that's fine. I wouldn't eat an apple. So what's what's the bottom because an apple's not that bad. You like apples. I do like what's the worst food you would eat instead of skipping dinner? What's the bottom? I won't eat a can of tuna fish as gross. Oh no. No, no, no. Of course you saw that millennials are killing can tuna. No one will eat that bland garbage can tuna. It smells awful. Yeah. It's funny. The article was literally like millennials won't eat tuna anymore. But then the details were millennials want to buy actual tuna and shred it themselves fresh rather than buy garbage can tuna. Yeah, it's too much money and it's not good for fishes. Yep. It's also not good. I guess I would eat some fish that wasn't too fishy. So what's too fishy? What's your life because you know you get fish, you know, you buy say like fish sticks, right? Fish sticks are too fishy by from the grocery store like frozen fish sticks. I would eat frozen fish sticks. They smell fishy and gross. I want to eat. See, I like fishy fish. I don't like fishy fish. I like like a really fishy fish. No, no, no. If it's if it's too oceany, you know, it's like that doesn't taste. I like that kind of like Ali. I'll just eat anchovies straight up. I mean, I like an anchovy, but it, you know, those aren't too fishy. They're like salty and it's a different flavor. They're pretty fishy too. Just you usually don't eat a lot of anchovies. There's this, this, this smell you get with like, you know, you go to like a low quality seafood restaurant. Oh, but I love that fishy fish by a crappy piece of fish that is low quality or frozen and just like plain boring white fish of some kind. It smells way fishy. Like it's from the, you know, like it's got ocean all over it. I don't like that. But if it was, you just take the fish and you just decrease that fishy level to the point at which I can eat it without being like, even though I might be like, right. And that I guess is the food that I like the least because you can just adjust that level of fishiness to the point at which I will eat it to not go hungry rather than be hungry, but I'm still not happy. I would rather eat something else. I think by line is not the Arby's roast beef sandwich because I will never eat one of those again in my life. See the thing is I love Arby's, but at Arby's I will do not eat roast beef at all. Ew. That's, I would not eat. I used to. I used to every day. Remember kids? I would eat McDonald's before I ate the roast beef. When I was in high school, like sophomore year, I would drive. I just walk out of the school around lunchtime, drive to the mall, go to the Arby's in the mall and eat like a roast beef sandwich. It's a curly fries and a Jamoka shake. And that was my lunch at Arby's. I would think is I would, I would go right now to an Arby's to eat the chicken fingers, the chicken fingers and of course the curly fry. Because while that curly fry isn't say really any different than McDonald's fry, it does have a a little bit more potato to it's got flavor powder, which you hate another contact be a curly shape and see a flavor that is not just oil and salt. Yeah. I think the line for me in terms of quality and type combined is I would order Arby's chicken fingers and curly fries. I would eat that rather than even though those fried chicken fingers have very small amount of chicken. Yup. They're way better than like a chicken wing nugget, but anything I would not eat a fast food worse than that for dinner. But I consider a white castle burger to be better than that. I would not eat any, almost anything a white cast. I did a white castle burger right now. No, like I would just eat that on purpose. No. In a non dire situation, I would eat a white castle. No. The only reason I don't honestly is that all the white castles in New York are disgusting. The one you're me when I had a business and so there was a regional office also here. We also went closed the last time I ate at a white building over there that I still has a castle on the corner of it. I went to one of the regional office. I went to when I worked at the hospital. I went to one of the Bronx that was kind of like near one of my offices and like the interior of it, one had like bulletproof glass and a metal detector and a cop. And then inside of it, it was filthy. And I ate there once and I vowed to never eat there again because the environment was too disgusting. But otherwise I like the sensation of eating a white castle burger, but I would not eat a McDonald's burger under any circumstances. I would definitely go hungry. Well, someone in our, some people in our chat have mentioned Taco Bell, a place, a place that I will never eat. Taco Bell is okay though. I will not eat it. Taco Bell is just a low quality, but perfectly serviceable taco that arguably probably doesn't have much meat in it. If any meat, I will not eat a Taco Bell. I would eat a Taco Bell. I would not. Why not? Taco Bell is fine. I mean, there are places I would eat. I would rather sooner eat Taco Bell than white castle, but that doesn't mean I will eat Taco Bell. I will. Taco Bell is higher quality food stuff than white castle. Yes. The thing, the ingredients are fine, but I still won't eat there. It's still below the line. I'd say it's above the line. I would eat it. I would eat it. It's just closer to the line than white castles. I did a Taco Bell before I'd go hungry, but I would not eat at most genero delis in midtown Manhattan. Like the one that I get at the genero deli was the one by grand central. I don't know which one. There's a big one. I don't know which one. I'm like 41st street. We've walked past this place many times. There's a lot of genero delis, but every time we've walked past this one, you have always pointed it out and said we should never eat there. Maybe. I don't know. You don't remember this? No. Okay. It's called like the stage doors. It's on like 41st like and Pershing square. I feel like the next time we walk by, I'm going to point it out. I would not eat there under any circumstances. I've also seen it closed down by the health department multiple times. Yeah. I mean, I won't eat at a place that I know is issues, right? It's just in New York City. It's a lot easier to know when places have issues because they don't have these grading system going on. Some places don't have that. Here's the question. What is the worst food you've ever eaten on purpose? What do you mean? Like unhealthiest or whatever you mean by worst, the worst food you've eaten on purpose in your whole life or in your adult life? Well, I mean, there have been there have been a couple times because as a kid, I would eat like Cheetos. Like I like Cheetos. I mean, there have been times where we deep fried various things and ate them. Yeah. And there are also times I think at least a couple times in my youth where you've played that game where you combine a bunch of beverages into some concoction and like dare people to drink it and someone sips it and it's, you know, whatever. I only ever played that game in the context of watching other people do it. I was never dumb enough to do it myself. I mean, I just I don't remember really the details. I just remember it being a thing because I have a couple of times the worst food I ever put in my mouth on purpose was that off brand big boy on the New York state through way on that terrible trip we took to Rochester that one time to this day that meal stands out as the worst food I've ever put in my mouth on purpose in my entire life. It was not good. It was it filled my stomach, but it did not save me. It's like in chrono trigger, but you're still hungry. I just felt worse. I mean, I have eaten at McDonald's Burger King and such in the past, just the very, very deep past. When was the last time? Because I ate a McDonald's breakfast occasionally when I ski the last time I ate a McDonald's burger. The last time I ate McDonald's, I think was before the year 2000. Maybe it was definitely high. So in the year 2000, I got ice cream from McDonald's in Israel. And in my seventh grade, I ate. Wait, wait, wait. I would eat Nando's, but not the chicken. Nando's chicken is perfectly fine. Why would you not eat at Nando's? I would eat Nando's chicken before I would eat at any other fast food restaurant on earth. Yeah, I would give up Chipotle before I give up Nando's. I avoid Chipotle. I got Chipotle. When I go to Chipotle, I never get meat. I only get the sofritas. I like sofritas. I get them the most, but I also get other things like the limited time chorizo. Yeah, they're trying to make it the big rib of Chipotle, the McRib of Chipotle. It's good strategy, but it's not, it's not McRib, which I would not eat McRib. I would not. The worst thing I ever put in my mouth ever, though, on purpose was I like energy drinks, but remember when there was that cocaine energy drink? Oh, right. You tried that. Yeah. I tried the four loco also. A four loco didn't actually taste bad. It's just bad for you. You tasted it though. Yeah. It tasted fine. Okay. It tastes, you know what it tasted like? It tasted like a bad 40 mixed with a Red Bull. Oh, one time I was drinking some apple juice. Yeah. And it was just grocery store brand apple juice, but I didn't notice until I sifted it that it had something growing in there. And there was a lot of, there was like some sort of solid, floaty, cloudy mass in the cup at the bottom, but also it tasted like, you know, poison. Yeah. So I like Red Bull. I like energy drinks. I didn't drink much of it. I just was like, so I bought that cocaine energy drink because I was like, okay, it's just like another energy drink. I will try it. And when I opened the can, I could smell it a little bit and part of my brain said, this is poison. I suppressed that little part of my brain. I took one sip. It tasted the worst. It was the worst taste I have ever experienced in my entire life. That big boy meal tasted like sadness. This tasted like death. Yeah. I literally spit it out and I threw it away and I never look back. One time in a dim sum was it Mike Lynn? He was like, he was like, yeah, I'll try to get these white people to eat weird foods at the dim sum. That didn't work on us. I'd bite each one and be like, I don't like this, but okay. He got, so he got, he got pig's ear. Pig's ear is okay. I like to nibble on a pig's ear. Right. So I nibbled on the pig's ear and it tasted like pork, which is fine. It tasted just fine. The problem is it was so fucking chewy. I could not chew it to a point at which I could swallow it. And then I had a taste. That's the same problem with the tripe. I do not like tripe. Like I will not eat tripe. Then I had a tasteless mass of cartilage in my mouth. Yeah. And then I spit it out after I had extracted all of the pork flavor. Tripe tastes good, but it's basically swallow it. It's like meat gum. Like if I could treat it like gum, but spit it out, I'd probably eat more tripe. It also happens to me sometimes with very poorly cooked steaks is I'll, you know, chew them. And then you get that little meat gum remainder. I get some part of it or maybe the whole thing if it's real bad, where I cannot chew it sufficiently to the point where I can swallow it. You spit into a napkin. And all of the meat flavor has been extracted. And then I spit out this gray mass into a napkin. Yup. I've done the gray mass into the napkin before. And it's like, well, this isn't a good steak. You know, where are we commonly do that with about 10% of a steak on French bread? Actually, I never had that problem with steak on French bread. Usually not. There'd always be a little bit, but sometimes I just swallow it. Because it was, it was near the line. Like that steak on French bread was probably the best value per dollar of food we had in our entire lives. Maybe. But, uh, wow, this chat's got a lot of opinions. I don't understand. People like food shows for some reason. I don't understand anti Nando's sentiment. Nando's is pretty good. If you, if you like food shows so much, send us more food show ideas for Thursday. So one thing I've noticed though, is that as I've gotten not just older, but, and not even necessarily wealthier, but living in places where I have more access to better quality food, irrespective of price. Like if I go to a crap old Chinese place and flushing, it's really high quality Chinese food that's very food that's very flavorful. I can't eat like the non flavorful Chinese food in Michigan. Yep. Like, but if you had only lived in Michigan, you could. Yeah, I could. I used to eat like Chinese food that by my modern palette tastes like nothing. It tastes like just MSG on cardboard. You can't eat Seattle pizza. Nope. You can't eat Dunkin Donuts bagel. Nope. I can't eat a Dunkin Donuts doughnut. I can eat a Dunkin Donuts doughnut. Wait, it was the last time you ate a Dunkin Donuts doughnut. This year. They're not worth eating. 2018. I would go hungry before I eat a Dunkin Donuts doughnut. I'm out. I'm biking. It's morning. I want some sugar. Oh, look, they're selling sugar. Scott, I'll buy it. It's New York. There's probably a real doughnut within like a half a mile of wherever you are. In New Jersey, the biking group stops at the Dunkin Donuts. You should have brought food with you. I did, but I wanted to buy a sugar that other than the sugar I was carrying. Dunkin Donuts, I would go, you know, back to our scenario, I would go hungry and skip dinner rather than eat Dunkin Donuts food. A doughnut is just a sugar ring. It's fine. Yeah. I don't need the sugar ring. I will not eat a sugar ring that tastes like just sugar and ring. That's what it tastes like. Yeah. It tastes like it's a ring of cardboard with sugar on it. No, it's just sugar and it tastes fine. It tastes like sugar. It tastes great. It just makes it unsatisfying. It's not like it's hard or anything. The bagel tastes like nothing. The bagel I want to eat. I can't eat like just a bagel that's just bread. It's like, all right, this is basically just wonder bread in the shape of a bagel. Yeah. I will not eat a bread ring, but I will eat a sugar ring. I won't eat a sugar ring anymore. All right. Don't. I just can't. It just doesn't satisfy me. I feel better by avoiding it than eating it. Okay. Do what you gotta do. Yeah. That's why I'm going to avoid Dunkin Donuts. Okay. All right. I think we might have killed enough time. Must have killed time, boy. I should cherish it. You might cherish the sugar ring. All right. I guess the last thing. What are the foods you just don't like? Like, let's just try to list the foods we don't like. Either one of us are picky eaters. Well, there are foods that I like or might like, but won't eat. Actually, I've never tried it, but I'm pretty sure shark fin soup probably tastes good. So my guess would be that it tastes great. I will not eat that. It's been served to me, and I have a rule generally that- I know that Fog raw tastes great because I've had it, but I'm not going to order it. It has been served to me. And my rule is, even if I have ethical concerns about a food, but unbeknownst to me and without my input, it is prepared for me. I will usually eat it so it doesn't go to waste. And in those cases, in that context, I have had rabbit, even though I don't want to eat rabbit. I have had shark fin soup, even though I don't want- Was it good? I haven't had it. No. It was kind of bland. Oh. I've been told that it was rich. Well, yeah. You can make it rich, but I've had better soups. It wasn't- Did you have a bad shark fin soup or a shark fin soup just bad? This was shark fin soup served to me illicitly in Hong Kong at a rich person's thing. It was good, but it was not good enough to justify the cruelty. It wasn't Fog raw good. So Fog raw has been served to me twice without me ordering it in my adult life. One time, Emily and I were at a super fancy French restaurant having a very expensive fancy date night, and the waiter comes over and hands us something and puts it on the table, and it's a pâté of some kind and walks away. And we just both assume, all right, I guess they just serve this to us. We immediately eat it, as it wasn't that much. It was one of the most delicious things I've ever eaten in my life. The waiter comes back and is like, oh, sorry, that was for another 10, and it's gone because we've already eaten it. We've eaten it in the 30 seconds before we realized he delivered this very expensive Fog raw to the wrong table. We just ate it. He was a little miffed that we just ate it. Why wouldn't you? You put food on my table. I eat it. Yep. And it was really, really, really, really, really delicious. Of course. But I will never order Fog raw. It's a fatty goose liver. I would, if I ever had to make an exception, I would be willing to entertain ordering Fog raw if I knew that it was hunted as opposed to farmed. It won't taste as good. It would arguably taste better. Just like veal won't taste as good. Yeah. I try to avoid eating veal, but it ends up being one of many ingredients in many Italian dishes. Like a meatball has veal in it. So I'll eat like a meatball that has veal in it. I try to order a veal by itself. I try to avoid eating veal. I haven't eaten it probably in years unless it's been, say, in a meatball. But I will super rarely, as in less than once a year, order a veal because it tastes real good and it's less evil than Fog raw while still being very evil. At least farmed Fog raw is awful. It is less evil than a Nortolan bunting, which I won't eat. I would never eat an Nortolan bunting. I would, I would cut off. I would consider defriending someone or disowning a family member who ate Nortolan bunting because that that just feels like it's done for the sake of being awful. It is. Yeah. You're exactly right. It can't be good. Like if you like Arminiac so much and you want to have this experience, just get like a regular pheasant and cook it in Arminiac. Like it's not going to be different. I won't eat anything that's too smart. Like dolphin. I wanted anything harmful. Like a monkey brain. So I want to try. I won't eat an octopus because it's too smart. But I have a problem. I also won't eat like squid tentacles even though squids are stupid. They're not as stupid as people say Scott. Like I've learned some things about squid. Yes, but they're stupider than an octopus. Arguably they're similarly intelligent in a different way. Either way, I'm not eating them so it doesn't matter why I don't eat them. I eat octopus. Because the tentacles, even regardless of their smartness, tentacles are just too damn chewy. That's just because you got bad ones like scallops. You don't like mediocre to average or even above average scallops. But I know you for a fact like good scallops. Well, at least the scallop isn't smart at all. It's just a shell that opens and closes. The shell, as far as I know, a scallop is dumb as a brick. It just opens and closes. So all I'm going to tell you- And it's a little white blob that shimmies. You can't do anything. You can use this information. You can't open a lock like an octopus. I provide you information. You can use it as you see fit. Octopus tentacle that is good octopus tentacle is as good and as different from regular octopus tentacle as the good scallop is from the regular scallop. I'm still eating a takoyaki even though it's probably fucking delicious. Takoyaki is so good. I'm not eating it because it's one of my favorite foods. It's made of octopus. Yeah, but it's so good. Find me a proven dumbass octopus. Maybe I'll try one. Just jerk octopus, like find one who specifically did something bad. Oh, like yeah, even though it's smart. Find one who committed a crime. If they're smart enough, they know the difference in good and evil. Even though it's smart, we can see this is clearly a bad octopus that deserve to be eaten. I won't eat natto. That shit's disgusting. Yeah, it smells bad. I won't eat Vegemite. That shit's disgusting. I ate it once. I tried. It doesn't taste good. So I'm going to eat it anymore. I have tried natto. I've tried Vegemite. I've tried Marmite. Marmite is I haven't tried the marmite. Imagine Vegemite. But all right. But like grosser and more gooey. I'm not eating that. Like in because why would I hear like runnier? Like imagine that's worse. Runny Vegemite. That is worse. It is so gross. I will not eat that. Because I had Vegemite before and you had when we were in Australia and you really wanted to try it. I was in Australia. It's the thing to do. Yeah. You know what I learned? If you go to Australia, Pat, you don't need to worry about the Vegemite. Right. You just got to get the Tim Tams. Tim Tams. Tim Tams are the thing you want from Australia, not Vegemite. They should really decrease their telling tourists about Vegemite, which I think they do just as like a trap. And they should increase telling tourists about Tim Tams. But even then, the real secret of Australia is the Big Bracky. Tim Tams. Tim Tams are okay. Tim Tams are like, they're basically like their equivalent of some of that New Jersey, Pennsylvania, high food that we enjoy. Or at least that Dave Riley and Joel White enjoy. In fact, I remember you me and Sherpa went to the went to that grocery store to buy that Vegemite. Well, I was I'm the one who wanted to go to a grocery store. Yeah. I always like to go to a grocery store over I go. I went to the grocery store in Aruba, which is a grocery store in Australia, grocery store in Israel. Oh, well, if I'm coming to your country, I'm going to the grocery store. Like I don't like tripe. Like I said, like I just don't enjoy tripe. I don't like like chicken feet and all those kinds of things. I'm not like I'll eat them. I just don't like them. A chicken feet is, you know, I'll eat it, but I won't order it. Yeah, like I don't like them. But if they're there, I might get a couple. I'm down with it. You order some chicken feet and dim sum. It's like I'll bite one. I'll eat a little bit. But I there's not that many foods I don't like. Like it's a pretty short list. I'll eat almost any food. It's just beverages. I'm very limited in the beverage department. Yeah, I'll drink a lot of things too. I got this really good. Oh, you know what? I don't like that that is a normal food that other people like is artichoke. I don't like artichoke. The fuck is wrong with you? It tastes bad. I don't know. Artichoke is one of my favorite foods. Tastes bad. Don't eat it. Like artichokes and Brussels sprouts and all those things. Brussels sprout is great. Brussels sprout is the best. And like Brussels sprout is like top tier vegetable. Have you ever had, what about artichoke dip? No, it's also bad. But you like guacamole. Yeah. Tastes nothing like artichoke. Okay. Yeah. But there are a similar type of food in the end. Artichoke dip. I guess artichoke dip is more like spinach dip and less like guacamole. Spinach dip is okay. I like spinach. I like spinach a lot. I like spinach. As a kid, I would eat like a quarter pound of spinach dip by myself. I try to avoid eating raw spinach and raw kale that has not been cooked because in addition to the bacterial disease E. coli problems of eating just any uncooked vegetable. Let's do our friend Pete cook your lettuce cook all vegetables. It has the additional problem of fucking up your stomach. So it doesn't actually, from what I've read, it doesn't actually cause that problem more than a lot of other cooked foods. Yeah. The danger is overblown. It's still more than zero on my stomach. Raw spinach is also really good. Like I really enjoy it. It's all right. Yeah. It's not, it doesn't, nothing's gotten really, no lettuce can really compare with arugula. Arugula is the king of lettuce. I really, really don't like American cheese because it just doesn't taste like anything. Depends, right? So if you go and you get, say, craft sliced at singles, those taste like nothing. But no, why would you ever eat American cheese when Colby exists? Colby Jack exists? Jack exists? If you go, if you go to the, if you go to the deli counter and you ask for, say, you know, I guess the minimum American cheese that has flavor would be like Lando Lake's American. But I'm saying the highest quality American cheese from the best deli in the world is still mediocre compared to even like an average cheddar or an average Monterey Jack. You can get good American cheese. It has a flavor. Yes, it's good in respect to American cheese. But the, the stat for American cheese as a whole caps out real low. No, it's the best American cheese. It's just a different variety of cheese. Yeah. And it's flavorless. No, you haven't had a flavorful, high quality American cheese that has a flavor. If I blindfolded you, I don't think you could tell the difference between good American cheese and really, really shitty like Colby Jack. Go get some really shitty Colby Jack and get like, I guess I already said Lando Lake's American has flavor. So get that. I can tell it apart with my eyes closed. Get yellow or white. It's just food coloring. It's not indifferent. Yep. All right. Now we've definitely killed enough time. So okay. Good.