 Welcome to our interview show in which we interview LGBTQ guests who are important contributors to our community. We want to acknowledge that all things LGBTQ is produced at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which is unceded Indigenous land. Enjoy the show. So, looking at the work that our legislature is currently undertaking, there are a fair number of bills that have been introduced that are looking to deal with the issue of racial and social equity. And there's one name that repeatedly comes up as either a lead sponsor or a co-sponsor, and that's Representative Brian Cina of Chittenden 6-4. Welcome, Brian. Thank you. So, could you talk a little bit about why there seems to be an increase in bills on racial and then what you're adding in with social equity? Is the Vermont legislature truly ready to actively deal with racial inequality? I think they'd like to think that they are ready, but actions speak louder than words. And I'm not saying enough action. For many years, as a legislator, I've worked with community members outside of the legislature to propose legislation related to racial and social justice. And for many years, those bills sort of didn't move forward. And there didn't seem to be the political will to act on some of those bills. For example, we've introduced bills. We, in this particular case, the Racial Justice Alliance, that we introduced bills related to police training that didn't move forward. In my first two years in the legislature, we were trying to push for Columbus Day to be changed to Indigenous People's Day. And that didn't happen in the first two years. But there's many others I could list. But what has happened over the last few years is there's been an increased interest in addressing racial justice in the legislature because of what's happening out in the community, both in Vermont and around the United States. So over the last few years, we have moved some significant racial justice bills, like we created the Director of Racial Equity position in the state through a Racial Justice Alliance bill. And we did, I worked with the Commission on Native American Affairs to fight the change Columbus Day to Indigenous People's Day. So there had been some changes, but they were very hard to get. And it feels like the minimum, people want to do the minimum possible to be able to say we did something and not to do deeper work. So fast forward to last year, the pandemic hits. And the pandemic hits as we are debating use of force policy changes in which every single time those policy changes were being discussed, the room was filled with the police. And the testimony was tons of law enforcement, but not many racial justice activists, not many people directly impacted by police policy. And then the pandemic hit, everything came to a screeching halt. And behind the scenes, some of us were pushing so that that work around use of force would move forward. Then George Floyd was murdered. And the nation blew up, the issue blew up all across the country, including here in Vermont. And when that happened, it really seemed to add sort of fuel to the fire. And a lot of white people decided they wanted to do something. They wanted to do something more than go to their Thursday night book club. They wanted to do something more than post virtue signaling tweets. They wanted to do something meaningful, but they don't know what that is. And so here we come, the Racial Justice Alliance, saying, Hey, for years we've been telling you what it is. So here is what we're saying. And some of what we were asking for did get acted upon last summer, when the legislature took some action towards use of changing use of force policy. And here in Burlington, yes, some action and here in Burlington, the Racial Justice Alliance, we organized and we pushed and got the city council to take some significant steps like declaring racism a public health emergency and starting a reparations task force and better funding racial equity office here in Burlington, et cetera. So in the midst of all that, the Racial Justice Alliance, we met and decided we wanted to have a bold policy agenda coming into this year. And we came forward with a variety of bills related to racial justice in the healthcare system, in criminal justice, in economic development. And so that's a big part of the work I'm doing has been on behalf and in partnership with the Vermont Racial Justice Alliance. That's not all of it, but that is a big part of it. And that's one of the reasons why you see me associated with so many bills. Now, you would ask about people wanting to act on stuff and so we brought forward this bold policy agenda. And people said, people meaning other legislators, community members wanted to act on it. And interestingly enough, the agenda is ACT, it's act. Acknowledge historic systems of oppression, create new systems and transform existing systems. And I just want to be clear, this is the racial justice and racial justice alliance's agenda that I'm talking about right now, not my personal agenda, even though I'm part of it. It's a collective agenda. And so my colleagues said they wanted to act on stuff and some things have moved. But what I am concerned about the scope, I'm concerned about how much we're doing. And if I may give you an example. Yeah, so one of the first things that happened was the racial justice alliance had a bill related to health, addressing health disparities and promoting health equity. And in our work on that bill, we discovered that there's clear disparities in the health care system for BIPOC, black, indigenous and other people of color, LGBTQ people. I don't know if you need me to define that on the show. And people with disabilities. And so we presented our findings showing the data that there's disparities for those groups. And we suggested that the state create an office of health equity with an office of health equity director who works with a commission made up of people appointed by various organizations from those different communities. And that they look at health care policy and spending for the department of health. And that they administer a grants program. And that they look at health care provider education. And last but not least data collection. Did I say that yet? No. Okay. Yeah. So I was going to say data collection comes up frequently with a number of different categories. And people are always amazed at the data we're not collecting. Yes. Yeah. So who was part of the racial equity groups that you keep referring to? Is it beyond legislators and includes the Vermont racial justice alliance? Yes. The Vermont racial justice alliance is its own organization. It's black centered and BIPOC led. You can look up the Vermont racial justice alliance online and look at the website and see the mission statement for yourselves out there. If you're interested, I have to look it up to read to you the exact mission statement. But the idea is to is focused on American descendants of slavery but addressing systemic racism, which affects all BIPOC. That's really the racial justice alliance is community based. I'm the only legislator on the steering committee. And I was the only legislator who was part of the policy committee. And I'm also on the wellness committee. I worked with them before being on those committees. But over time, as I worked with them more, I got involved in those committees. And so these bills were developed mostly by community members. And I was the legislator who act is sort of a bridge between them and the legislature with getting legislative lawyers to draft our ideas into bills that fit the drafting guidelines and collecting co-sponsors and then advocating for them. And two of our racial justice alliance pieces of legislation are in motion right now. One of them is the health equity bill I was just talking about. And another one is there's a resolution declaring racism as a public health emergency statewide that's being worked on in the house human services committee right now. So what happened with the health equity bills, it got taken up by the health care committee, which I'm on. And we took a lot of testimony. And what we heard was that the State Department of Health feels overwhelmed from the pandemic and didn't feel ready to open that office. But they thought that the work needed to be done. So a compromise we made was creating the commission, giving some money to the director of racial equity, to get the commission up and running, work with the commission to make a plan for the office of health equity, look at how we're spending ARPA and other COVID related money, do it work with health care providers to come back with a recommendation on health care education. So a lot of work for that commission before the office of health equity opens up. So we came up with a compromise that didn't please everyone, but that's where it landed. The part that's concerning to me has to do with grants, because I understand why we had to remove the grant section because it was very in depth and detailed and it needed the office of health equity to do that section because it told them to provide a lot of support to people applying. But what's concerning to me is that I don't see enough money in our state budget being directed to this issue. And what I keep hearing is there's no money, there's no money, we don't have the money for this, but we're getting two billion dollars in federal relief money. And we've given hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to businesses, especially the top 100 businesses in Vermont, Vermont have gotten a lot of money. We gave corporate tax breaks in a bill that just passed the house to those top Vermont corporations, I think 20 million in tax breaks, but we can't give any money for health equity. We can't give any money to BIPOC, LGBTQ or people with disabilities during a pandemic when those groups have been hit hard for creative programs to promote wellness coming out of the pandemic. I don't accept that. I can't accept that. That's the part of it that bothers me. I appreciate that we're taking some action to change the systems of government. But if you've ever seen that movie Car Wash, I don't know if you've seen the movie Car Wash, there's a song in it that the pointers sent sisters saying and they say put your money where your mouth is, or you ain't saying a damn thing, put your money where your mouth is, or you ain't saying nothing. And that's kind of how I feel, like where we need to put the money where our mouth is, we've been saying we want to do something about racial justice, we need to shift the investments towards racial justice. Yeah, you are one of the few sponsors of bills looking at dealing with issues of equity that actually tries to put money into your bills so that there is a budget to carry out that work. I keep remembering when we started the office of racial equity and then gave her no money to run her agency. But looking at the COVID money coming in and all of a sudden here is this abundance of funding, there are a number of bills focusing on housing and affordable housing, but your bill goes further. H273 looks at not only appropriating monies for the development of housing, but ensuring that it's going to those people who have consistently been denied the opportunity. Could you talk a little bit about H273? Yes. So H273 is a bill that the Racial Justice Alliance is supporting, but it actually wasn't written by the Racial Justice Alliance. That bill was drafted with a new group that I'm part of called Seeding Power Vermont. And Seeding Power Vermont is a coalition, we're not a formal organization. One of the members of our coalition is the president of the NAACP of Wyndham County. Another member is a leader of the group, I don't know if her title is director of a group called Every Town Vermont, which looks at having collectively owned land for BIPOC in every town in Vermont. We have another member who is, I mean, I don't know if I should say people's names are not on your show, but like another member is a member of the Commission of Native American Affairs and a local, a Lakota elder. So we have like a core team of BIPOC that's LGBTQ and FEM led and we purposely did that. We Seeding Power was a group where we said as queer people and women who are BIPOC, we wanted a space for us to be able to take the lead because too often it's men or it's really straight men, straight BIPOC men or straight men across the board who tend to dominate. And so we wanted a space where we were letting queer people and women who were BIPOC take the lead. So that's what Seeding Power of Vermont is and our bill, we have one bill we introduce is the BIPOC led land access and opportunity bill, which proposes that the state of Vermont create a fund to go towards land access and property ownership to address the history of wealth disparity for people of different racial and social groups who've been historically marginalized. And that fund to be created and administered by a board of the people from those groups. So the board would be appointed by a variety of organizations that are BIPOC and we have LGBTQ as well. One thing we missed is we should have had a group that was specifically people with disabilities on there, but that can be amended in committee. But that's something, you know, when we were putting it together, looking at the different groups who were trying to create a board, create the composition of a board that would be made up of all these different people from groups that have been left out historically. And that's the idea behind it. So that we're giving power, spending power to people from the communities who haven't been given that power. And then they're giving the powers and duties to spend the money within certain parameters. They have to follow state and federal law and they have to, you know, have some kind of criteria to explain and justify how they spent the money. But we give them a lot of freedom to figure that out within certain categories, including individual property ownership, collective land ownership, wealth management, financial education programs, mutual aid programs. So the idea being that we're letting this independent board invest money into these projects for both individuals and groups so that people can acquire property, land and wealth. And the idea is that this is a way to remedy a 400 year history that has severed indigenous people from the land and kept indigenous people from acquiring wealth. And that has used the labor of black people for hundreds of years to build an economy that they were then systemically excluded from. And that the policies against those groups have affected all people of color and have affected other social groups, such as people with disabilities and people from lower socioeconomic statuses, for example. So the idea of this board was to give them the power to look at how to redistribute some money so it could be invested by those who've been excluded historically in projects that would help address wealth disparity. And so that was a bill that we introduced. The issue has been, testimony has been taken on the issue, but a concern we have is that the committee has been hearing testimony on another bill related to BIPOC land access and not ours. And they've given us two hours out of maybe 20 hours of testimony and mostly white people are being brought in to testify. And so it's kind of this is what I'm saying earlier. It's like people say they want to do the right thing. And I think people mean well, but I don't know if people who have the power in our society actually understand yet how these kinds of actions might make them feel better, but they actually make the people that they're trying to help feel worse, that we feel worse when we're being talked about, but we're not at the table. And there is a statement, you know, nothing without us, nothing about us without us. And none of us are perfect. Like we all make our mistakes and forget someone, but when you realize you forget someone, you need to make room at the table and get another chair or whatever the person needs to be at that table. Not just say, oh, oh, well, sorry, we're just going to keep talking. And so there's been a lot of, a lot of situations like that happening as people are moving forward with the racial and social justice work where it's a mess and it's imperfect. That being said, we're working through it. We're speaking out. We're working through it. And hopefully what will come out of this in the end is some meaningful action. Not just, not just something that looks and feels good, but that's something that actually addresses the underlying power dynamics. And that's really what seeding power is about is our whole concept is that what we're trying to do is propose changes that seed power, where we give power out and then people spread it. It's about spreading that power out and as far and wide as possible so that everybody can grow their own. And we're also asking that those who've historically hoarded power that they see, CEDE, and they share that with others so that we can spread it. That's really, we're looking at redistributing power as part of the work we're doing. And I'm excited to see what other stuff seeding power does over the summer, because we have a lot of ideas and there's a lot of people who want to work with that coalition now. And with that, I know your time is very limited. Thank you for fitting us in. I keep trying to remind people that it's important that our voices get heard, but once we've spoken, who else hasn't been heard and ensuring that they're brought into the conversation. So during the summer, I want a commitment that you'll come back so we can talk about this is what we were able to accomplish. This is what is still needed. And this is how we can be supportive, but not dominate the effort. So thank you, Brian. Thanks. People who routinely watch all things LGBTQ know that we try to talk about events not only here in Vermont, but throughout New England. And when there is an opportunity, we like to talk with those people in other states who are actually doing the work. And today, we've got one of those people. I'd like you all to meet Matt Luhman, who is the executive director of Equality Maine. Welcome, Matt. Thank you, Keith. Thanks for having me on the show. And thank you for making time in your schedule to spend this time with us, because I know that you're in the middle of your legislative session. And you've got pieces of legislation that you're following very closely. So to give people hearing from a bit of context, could you share a little bit about the history of Equality Maine? What it is that Equality Maine hopes to provide for LGBTQ plus people within the state of Maine? And then more importantly, how are you able to do that? Sure. Yeah. Well, thank you for the question. I might give you a bit of a long answer, but hopefully it's informative. And I also just want to say hi to everybody in Vermont. It's nice to be with you all. Yeah. So Equality Maine was founded in 1984. And I actually want to go slightly before 1984 to establish some context. Our first non-discrimination bill was filed in the Maine legislature in 1977. And it did not get a great reception. Of course, the first several times the bill was filed. And it was sort of disorganized to a certain extent. There were people who supported it, but it wasn't a real movement at that point. And the unfortunate incident that sort of changed that and made people mobilize was the 1984 murder of a young man named Charlie Howard in Bangor. He was thrown off a bridge by several other young men because he was gay. And unfortunately, he could not swim. So he drowned. And that was a horrific tragedy that, of course, made major headlines all across the state and across the country. But I think what it catalyzed in our community was a realization that change was not happening fast enough. And that people needed to get organized. And our community needed to get organized to really become a force for the change that we all wanted to see. So Equality Maine was founded at that time. It was actually called the Maine Lesbian Gay Political Alliance, or MLGPA for short. And it really organized around trying to win basic non-discrimination protections. So that would include employment, housing, public accommodations, education, and credit. And for the first 20 or so years of the organization, that was the entire focus. And unlike Vermont, Maine is a referendum state. And so we always knew that if we were ever going to get the legislature and the governor to actually pass a non-discrimination law, that there was a strong likelihood that our opposition, which is led primarily by an organization called the Christian Civic League of Maine, would file for a referendum to try and get rid of the law. And so that's sort of what happened. The bill went through multiple iterations, actually got to the desk of then governor, Jack McKernan in 1993. But he vetoed it. So it got very close, but not across the finish line. And then in 1997, it passed again. And then Governor Angus King, who is now a U.S. Senator for Maine, signed the bill. But exactly as we knew would happen, our opposition went out and gathered signatures to put it on the ballot as a referendum. And unfortunately, the voters reversed non-discrimination. So we actually had to go to the ballot again and then again. And finally won in 2005 when the legislature passed the bill. Then Governor John Baldacci signed it, and then the voters upheld the law. So that was the first 20 years. But ultimately, by virtue of the work that you were doing, you won the Citizens Initiative or the referendum in 2005. So over the process of time, you laid the foundation for real social change within Maine. Yeah, you know, it's hard to see that when you're going through it because you're constantly asking people to make phone calls and knock on doors and give money. And it's exhausting. And frankly, it's stressful for obvious reasons to ask people to vote in favor of your rights. So I mean, there's a very good argument to be made that you shouldn't vote on civil rights. But I think one of the positive side effects of all of those referendums that we see now is that nobody in Maine can argue that our rights were mandated or forced on the population by the courts or by out-of-touch politicians or whatever the argument might be. Because ultimately, the major battles over LGBT equality in our state were decided by the voters. And they were decided in our favor. And we were proud of that. We stand on that. Anytime there's an attack on our rights, we remind people that they are directly opposing the will of the majority of Mainers. So yeah, so after non-discrimination, that was sort of after 2005 was after the height of the civil unions drama in Vermont. It was after the Goodridge decision in Massachusetts. And it was very clear that the fight for some form of relationship recognition and ideally marriage equality, that fight was there whether we wanted it or not. And so we sort of just jumped right in. And we started working on that. 2009, we went to the legislature. The legislature passed the bill. This was actually right around the time that Vermont's bill was happening. And I know you guys had to actually override a veto in order to get marriage equality into law. We didn't have to do that because our then governor, John Baldacci, was the first governor anywhere in the country to sign a marriage bill when he did that in May of 2009. And he beat the governor of New Hampshire by three days. We're always proud of that, that we beat them. But again, our opposition gathered signatures, put it on the ballot. And in the fall of 2009, that law was reversed by a margin of 53 to 47. So it was really close. But unfortunately, we lost. And then three years later, we had to go back on the 2012 ballot and we put it proactively on the ballot that time past marriage equality. This time we won 53 to 47. Sorry, you clearly have a question. Well, no, I didn't because I remember some of this debate. And that people talking after, you know, the first referendum where marriage equality was overturned, that people said that the sort of variable that people had missed is that you were also voting on bear traps in that same election. And people underestimated the impact of the people coming out to vote about bear traps and what that would have on marriage equality. And I will tell you that I remember it because it was such a bizarre discussion. And sort of one of the things about it, as you aptly had said, our rights shouldn't be a public debate. And it shouldn't be contingent on this relationship to any other interests. But please go on. And because I would really like to hear about how equality may help to do organizing and bring the state of things together because you're fairly rural area and geographically spread out so that you had effective campaigns. Yeah, we are a large geographically state with a relatively small population. So folks are very spread out here. You know, I mean, we because we knew that we were going to referendum, we could plan years ahead of time of when do we want to do this? When do we want to be on the ballot? What do we need to do between point A and point Z to be ready? We have amazing coalition partners here in the state of Maine, GLAD, GLBTQ, legal advocates and defenders we work with constantly. The superhero attorney of our movement, Mary Bonato, lives right here in Portland, Maine. So we're very lucky to have her here. The ACLU of Maine, the Maine transgender network, Maine women's lobby. We've just had a lot of partners that work really well together and have for a very long time. And so we knew that if the voters were going to decide we had to invest the time and the energy into making sure that they had the best information possible to make the best decision possible. So, you know, the reality is that it involved raising a lot of money, opening offices all over the state, hiring organizers all over the state to recruit volunteers to, like I said, do phone banking, do door knocking, do all of those things that you have to do in a campaign. But it worked, you know, I mean, we certainly didn't convince everyone, but we convinced enough, right? So, and of course, now all these years later, it's just like people think it's common sense. And I sometimes I have to remind them like, no, we worked really hard for that. Like that didn't just happen, you know, so. It's one of those that, you know, five years out, you look back and people sort of said, well, my life really didn't change. What was that all about? And you're right, you have to remind them. But it sounds as though what a quality main does really well is building coalition. So that it's not just you going out soldiering the burden of everything that needs to be done. You've got partners who have shared responsibilities. And that you're good at taking those people out and maintaining those relationships. That accurate? Yeah, I think so. And you sort of have to balance how that works, because you don't want I mean, some of our partner organizations are not LGBTQ organizations, but they are very committed to the values and the cause that we're working for. So you have to balance making sure that the voices and the experience of LGBTQ people is not lost. When you are working in coalition and that the people who are most impacted still have a say in the decision making, right? And vice versa, you know, when we're working, when we're supporting, for example, our partners at the main women's lobby, there are times when we need to take a backseat and the voices of women and girls need to be elevated more so than the voices of LGBTQ people. But it, but if you have trust and respect, you can have each other's back and support each other in ways that kind of lifts everybody up, if that makes sense. No, that does, that makes a great deal of sense. I mean, one of the conversations, particularly looking at the issue of racial equality and racial justice is being very cognizant of, yes, my voice has been heard, but who's happened? And have I really made room at the table so that they can share their voice as well? And I'm not in the forefront, but I'm supporting them and giving their voice the importance that it needs. And before we almost run out of time, I know it always goes much too quickly. I want to acknowledge that this past weekend, you know, stage main, which is now a part of Equality Main, you did a day long support symposium for LGBTQ plus elders. You know, is that type of activity something that Equality Main does on an ongoing basis to identify the needs of and to reach out to all of those different aspects of our communities? Yeah, and I'm so glad you asked about that, because I was like, oh no, we only got up to 2012, but what I want to say about post-2012 is, you know, for nearly 30 years, the politics were all consuming, whether it was for statewide votes on non-discrimination or two statewide votes on marriage. And once those were done, kind of the world opened up for Equality Main and for our community, because we hope at least that the days of, you know, $5 million statewide votes on our rights are behind us and that we never have to do that again. And so it really did open up this world of possibility of like, okay, we've got basic non-discrimination, we've got marriage equality, we need so much more than that in our community, and let's like really invest in that. So yeah, we do a lot of work through our SAGE program on LGBT elders issues. We do a lot of work on LGBTQ youth. So some of that is working directly with schools and administrations on things like anti-bullying policies, bathroom and locker room, and athletics accessibility and inclusion. You know, we have a youth leadership program called the New Leaders Project. It's a summer camp that we run every summer for LGBTQ youth. So yeah, I mean, we still do the policy, as you know, in the legislature when we have issues affecting our community. But we want to make sure that we're not only talking about laws and policy, and we're actually talking about the real lived experience of people in our community, and how do we make equality real in day-to-day life. And with that, I need to say thank you for sharing part of your day with us. And I'm going to extend an invitation to you now because I would like you to come back and talk about what it was like to be an elected official in Maine and to serve in the Maine House of Representatives for four term. Sure, I'd be happy to do that. Okay, so with that, thank you so much, Matt. And you know, good luck with the legislature and good luck with the quality of Maine. Thank you so much, Keith. And thanks for having me on the show. Now that Vermont seems to be on the brink of getting ahead of COVID, and we all might start looking at resuming a degree of normalcy in our lives, thought it might be time to reach out to our LGBTQ plus organizations and check in to see how they're doing. What are the things that they're looking at bringing back and what that new normal might look like. So we're starting with the person you just saw on your screen. Please welcome back Dana Kaplan from outright Vermont. Welcome, Dana. Hey, thanks for having me. Oh, and so how is outright doing? I mean, COVID was challenging, particularly looking at youth. And all of the things that outright put in place to support our youth. Yeah, you know, it has been a long, long year for sure, with an incredible amount of adjustments. You know, the silver lining, I think, for us really has been the ability to connect with youth and families and educators that might not otherwise have been able to make it to one of our physical locations for programming. So that is certainly something that we are going to take with us. You know, when you talk about what's the new normal going to be or returning to returning to some semblance of what things were like before. You know, I think that some things are forever changed. I think our clarity around the need for connection around the need for friendship and, you know, the ability to just share a meal with somebody across the table, like those things are so so pivotal. And we've known that, but to be without and then to start to dip our toes into what it looks like to actually get to have that in person time together is massive. It's massive. So, you know, for outright Vermont, we are in the process of really thinking about what are some of the practices that we will move forward with because they've actually advanced our mission and helped to fuel the connection that we want to make sure that all youth and families have. And at the same time, we are so excited to be back in person, right? Like there's the both and we are incredibly excited to be looking forward to camp outright, which will happen in person this summer. We are in the month of May, we're doing three pop up field days of sorts that are replacing our typical 24 hour summit that usually happens at the end of May. Instead of doing one summit at one school with over 150 youth, we are traveling to different locations throughout the state. So, we'll be in Rutland, we'll be in Brattleboro, and we'll be in St. Johnsbury, basically having outside celebrations. You know, so, yeah, there's a there's a reckoning for us right now, organizationally, around what are the what are the ways that our mission has excelled based on these really unfortunate and hard circumstances, and what are the ways that we are so excited to say see and never. And we're going back to how we used to be able to do things. I was going to say, Ed, you know, as you were talking about the opportunity to create hybrid events, where there may be a virtual aspect and in person, I immediately thought about first Fridays, or the Friday night group, where, you know, when outright was in its early years, it's like, how did we get youth to a central location? It sounds as though you may be able to create something so that youth in rural areas can have some contact that's having to worry about how do I get there? How do I get home? And that's right. So, what might be presented by a Vermont winter? Yes, that's right. Absolutely. You know, Friday night group has been our the the founding program of the organization that has happened every single Friday night. Since 1989, you know, regardless of weather, regardless of holidays, Friday night group has happened. And pre pandemic, we were really looking at an expansion plan to have Friday night group happen in different locations throughout the state from, you know, that that number has shifted with from one up to four. And we were really looking at the next three years going into at least three new locations. And right now, the question instead is, do we you know, how do we keep some component of an online Friday night group for those youth who may just feel more comfortable, you know, being able to shut off their camera and still participate but participate in a different way, or for youth who do not have accepting families who can't rely on transportation or for whom transportation is not not consistently available regardless of a level of family acceptance. So, you know, we were already playing with what some of those models would look like moving into the future. And I think now in some ways it's just opened up the opportunity for really bringing in new possibilities. Okay. And as you were describing that with, you know, a potentially non supportive family, is I could go to a friend's house, we could actually log on to what might be a statewide Friday night group. So it's not necessarily disclosing I wouldn't have to worry about, you know, the rumor that got back to my parents. So you did, did you do the leadership summit again this year as the virtual event? We sure did. Yeah, we did leadership day usually happens at the state house with with youth from across the state and their GSA's and they come together. What we did instead this year and also last year was we broke it up into smaller days and we did three afternoons of online events. Folks got to speak with their state reps. There were specific organizing opportunities for youth to talk about what does it look like to bring gender affirming resources into our schools? What does it look like to stand up to harassment and hate? And so it's really a neat opportunity to get to do an even deeper dive into some topics that normally in a you know, in a day we just wouldn't be able to get to all of it. So that was a really that was a really sweet moment as well. So knowing that we continuously talk about and look for ways to include our youth voices in the advocacy work that we do and how we move our communities forward. Were there any specific recommendations from our youth coming out of leadership day that you would feel comfortable sharing with people? So people start thinking about oh you know maybe I could help advocate on this issue. Yeah I mean so the the campaigns that are really up for youth right now we've got youth organizers from seven folks from across the state that are really working either regionally or locally to move a couple of youth driven campaigns forward and one of those really is looking at how to bring gender affirming resources so binders and gaffs into schools so that any youth who is in need of that level of of gender support is able to have that access and we're looking at doing that sort of similarly to how common distribution has happened in schools and looking at how to really resource school nurse offices as places where youth can access those resources. A lot of conversation also is specifically focused on SROs in school and the intersection of challenges of of homophobia and racism and transphobia and how to create more caring and restorative communities when there has been an incident what does it look like for the community to move through that and how can that best best happen especially for youth who are marginalized and often targeted in those systems so there's been a lot of interest and involvement from youth around being in those conversations about creating healthy accountable communities. Those are those were two of the top campaigns that had a lot of a lot of focus in this in this session of leadership days. So what people might be looking to is when some of these conversations get elevated to a school board level ensuring that there are parents supportive community members who are willing to make statements supporting the initiatives put forward by the youth but keeping in mind the we want to be supportive of youth versus our voices replacing our youth voices. They're the ones that need to be heard and ain't just us. So you also told me that I might I might get to see the fire truck pull again this year. That's absolutely right. We are looking and and similarly as with a number of our programs we're looking at doing a hybrid model for the fire truck pull. So for some folks the opportunity to shoot a video just in their own backyard created the ability for them to join into that event. We had a really great involvement from the community across Vermont being able to be on social media and so that was a that was a bright spot that we didn't necessarily anticipate just creating a different level of access and we are very very hopeful and making plans that in early October we will once again take over church street with fabulous costumes and all sorts of crowds cheering and pulling for LGBTQ youth and we're really so so excited to get to think about doing that in person for sure. I mean it's always been one of my favorite events because first I am just amazed that somebody can actually get the fire truck to move. Yeah it's amazing it's amazing what we can do when we coordinate together as a community right? It's one of those absolute visual of this is what working collaboratively can do. That's right. But we can talk briefly about when outright was first being founded and people thinking about how do we pay the rent and individual members submitting to paying a month's rent to ensure that outright set up on this feat. I think you may be about to become a little more stable on your feet. You've got something going on right now that is so exciting about a permanent home crowd. That's right that is absolutely right. So we are thrilled to be at this public phase of outright's first ever capital campaign to purchase our space so that youth can forever belong. The campaign was called Building a Hopeful Future for LGBTQ youth and is a really incredible opportunity that the organization has looked at over the past 30 years and we're not in a position to be able to do and thanks to incredible community members and the acknowledgement that we need to show up in right sized big ways to ensure that we will always be here. We have been successful and have closed on the building as of two weeks ago. So we've closed on the building we are still raising final funds and it is just a humbling moment especially having a conversation with you Keith and thinking about that origin story to be able to know that we will not be kicked out to know that we will always be able to be here and really this is a move that is about security and stability for an LGBTQ youth organization. It's pretty radical. It warms my heart in ways that I can't even begin to describe. So if people have not gotten direct mailing from you all about the capital campaign people could go on to the outright website and see the description of what is available and where you are and how they can support this. That's right. When we went public we had just under $60,000 left to raise of our overall campaign goal and the community response has been just fabulous you know it's really we knew that it was really important for us to be able to share this moment with our community and have folks be able to help us cross the finish line and so yeah folks can certainly give a call to outright can go on to the website which is just www.outrightvt.org. Happy to talk more about what this looks like we've got some really exciting interior renovation plans in place that are driven by youth need for a different level of intimacy and privacy right now the space is beautiful and some of the painting actually mirrors the stripes of the flag that you are sitting in front of Keith but really just looking at the ways that we can tweak the space to have it be exactly what youth need and yeah it's a big deal as you say made possible because folks recognize the importance of this moment you know there's so much loud anti trans rhetoric out there right now and this is this is a move that says that we will be here and that youth will always have a place to belong and in and of itself that's you know that's life saving we all we all need that so so it sounds as though as so good restrictions ease and as you move forward I might be looking for an opportunity to pull out that flamingo shirt again and come to a ribbon cutting we we would love it we would love it and yeah we're getting there you know slowly but surely we'll have these not summit days or what we're calling it the not summit that'll happen in May camp will happen in early July for the first time ever we're doing two separate back-to-back sessions of camp based on youth need you know in in 2019 when we were in person camp was full within 33 minutes of opening registration and as soon as we saw that we said we gotta we gotta expand it so we are thrilled to be able to do that this year and we will operate closer to 75 capacity for each session just to make sure that we're staying safe but it it it just feels like it's going to be such an incredible celebration and we'll go from there in terms of Friday night groups in person and other programming okay so with that thank you so much for spending this time with us and as we get closer to that ribbon cutting we're going to invite you back we're going to have a party for sure Keith thank you for joining us we'll see you in two weeks but in the meantime resist