 Hey everyone back for the back for the big event Our annuals open source survey that the new stack does with the Linux Foundation the to do there My am going by Chris Anderson of the CNCF Chris Here we are again. How are you? Hey, how's it going? Sorry got a little audio hiccup good to be here Happy to have an opportunity to talk about our latest open-source survey program survey results from the to do group Definitely and these are different times are in Chris aren't they it's a here. We are virtually we could have been Austin under other circumstances. I'm sure that's kind of a happy cliche thing to say right now Definitely, I would have appreciated walking to the conference venue You know instead of not being on an airplane, but I'm thankful that we're home and healthy and are able to spread You know, wonderful Ospo open source program knowledge to the world today Ospo open source program knowledge. Yes, that is what we're here for now Just take a minute to talk a little bit about the new stack The new second has been doing this research with the with Chris over the past three years And so we're starting to have some baseline understanding If you're not familiar with us the new stack provides explanation analysis of at scale development deployment and management We primarily serve a readership of developers engineers dev ops and IT professionals We like to think of ourselves as a trusted resource and we try our best to provide that through the explanation analysis That we provide you can go to the new stack.io for more about us now Let's get into the data just some basics. We conducted this survey over The time frame of May to June of 2020 They were solicited through social and email lists. We had about a thousand people responding 672 completed the survey And 17 responses were excluded What I'd like to say is that these numbers are are less than we've seen in prior years we had some Challenges and actually getting to the 1000 number total, but it does equal 2018 numbers and We've been trying to find some reason for that and I I attributed in part. I think just to the times were in and Chris I don't know if you haven't any other thoughts on that Yeah, no, I mean, you know the our thesis of essentially we would see A larger survey turnout due to everyone staying at home definitely did not play out I'm assuming just you know with the challenging times everyone's operating in It's it's kind of hard to kind of get everyone's attention on a specific thing But overall we still received a lot of responses and it's enough responses to try to deduce some interesting You know takeaways from the results I would say that Chris is pretty active on the github site and that's where actually you can find all the data And that's a github.com. You can see the link there to do group survey so you can go there and See the full results and and slice and dice them as you wish So we now are building this baseline. We're building this capability to see some Some numbers I remember last year when we were in Leone Chris and you were saying, oh, well, you know, we're still a little early here in the data collection We're still trying to understand a little bit more about what's going on here, but I think we're starting to see some I don't know if you would call it benchmark information, but I think it's getting closer to that I think you'll see it in the numbers that we have. There are some fluctuations But but number one, there's this wise for adoption. You know, we are Seeing that more than half of the companies out there are Are saying that they have open source programs now. They're in various stages of development We've seen established programs like vmware for instance with with dirk over there Der condo and and what he's done and he's really actually been able to make a lot of real, I think substantive changes to the overall kind of vision for vmware and how they are Changing their views and how they're changing their perspectives about open source They've made a number of acquisitions as well And so that plays into it as well I will have to mention again where's the sponsor and they were the sponsor of this survey as well The cnc app is a sponsor as is the limits foundation every time Now, I don't know chris is that is that Would you basically say that now we're seeing this Summary data. I mean not quite benchmark. What what are you still waiting for? You know, I think you know the whole idea of putting this survey together was to formalize essentially some kind of you know essentially You know a lot of companies that we've interact with are You know experimenting with open source establishing open source programs and and there was never kind of data out there on You know, uh, how large are they? What are open source programs used for and so the idea was always to kind of You know have some kind of thing we could reference as an organization Given that the 2d group essentially is an organization of peers who have built or are building out open source programs across the industry So our idea was always just to have concrete data We could point to because a lot of times when people are kind of early in their open source program journey Whether it's a formal ospo or informal they're always like well How is it done at potentially another organization? How large is their ospo? How many people should I hire? Should I just have one should we just keep it informal and so on so just having More data that we kind of share based on the trends of what's going on industry is very useful You know for people as you're trying to figure out staffing and also benefits given that Each ospo tends to have different Purposes depending generally how the business works. So, you know, some ospos are very heavily compliance focused because they're shipping You know, you know millions of devices and software on those devices So they're distributing software so compliance tends to be a little more paramount Are kind of more newer aged, you know, web companies where they're distributing less software on physical devices It's less of a compliance thing and more of uh, you know How do I ensure that I get ROI from software that we're contributing to or investing our open sourcing? Ourselves, you know, you mentioned vmware as a kind of a example ospo But there's other organizations out there like spotify Or, you know, google with christabona and so on that, you know are kind of You know more of our web companies focused and they're really trying to either improve their brand improve How efficient their engineers are developing and so on so this is just it really provides us A data set every year we could reflect upon and say here's how things are changing here Maybe new industries here were some needs that we kind of focus on and we share everything public that link you Mention earlier everyone every year could open up issues on our github repo ask, you know Ask questions modify questions and do whatever they want. Um And participate with us Excellent Maybe you could tell us a little bit about the to do group because they actually have had an important role In the development of open source program offices Sure, I mean we we initially started the organization a little over five years ago It's been informally running for longer than that when essentially, uh, a handful of us That were running open source programs at the time mostly in the bay area We had companies, you know, like twitter, which I was there's google facebook dropbox and so on we're sharing basically a lot of information of You know, how did you deal with this problem? How did you, you know, what tooling did you do to, you know, help improve? You know and measure roi for your open source project So we kind of started informally we eventually formalized the organization And brought it to the linux foundation to provide a neutral home, you know For us and kind of handle all the back off of stuff and essentially decided to let's go spread the notion of You know open source program management, uh to the industry given that it's kind of a new New field or new type of job, you know description Why not have a, you know, single body that's responsible for stewarding, you know What an ospo is how it runs and sharing practices amongst each other and you know It's been fairly successful We have a great set of guides that we produce that, you know, show how you start an open source program to How you potentially retire a project that, you know, uh, it may not be popular anymore. How do you Run your events and so on. So, um, overall, I think we've done a great job And I think we're all firm believers that, you know, if you go back, you know, 20 years or so ago, I think I think it was in in in 1995 when the first, um Chief security officer Was essentially crowned or created right and and they were essentially dealing with security issues at the time But it was very early stage I still think we're in the early stages of open source program management where More and more companies are going to have chief open source, you know People directors of open source and so on and that will continue to grow just like security Grew as a center of competency for for companies open source It's going to be a necessary center of competency given how much open source is being used I mean we saw from heather miller's keynote today that it's, you know All the data shows that 98 of software, you know, ship these days has Open source, you know embedded in it for for the majority of it So we're only going to continue to that trend so you're going to need open source program offices help manage that for organizations Yeah, I think that that's reflected. I think in the funding in many ways it is stable now There's some caveat to that but let's so let's get into the more of the details of the research and so we're going to look at some trends And especially around program opposite option Uh, one of the find one of the things I get out of this is that You know now that we do have three years of data We are seeing people using open source. There's no question It's a I think the median right there mean is about 82 percent really if you look at that first in the first number so that to me that seems like that That that's not going to go down right that that number I think is is fairly right That number is like showing that guess, you know open source contributions are Serious important organizations and and people are consuming open source code or in products or services Yeah, no def. I mean it's it's interesting where I think this number should literally be like 99 percent or 100 percent It's it's hard for me to find any piece of software these days that it does not have some open source That is associated with it But you know everyone, you know, there are some industries out there that are are different and things are closed source But I do expect the consumption number to continue to kind of increase Over time and on the production side as more open sources use eventually more companies will contribute upstream And you know, I think if we look at the data, we're seeing a small Uptick in that I think one of the goals for the to do group and I'll suppose in general is to ensure that number kind of continues so we could kind of Ensure that, you know, if you look at the research out there of companies contribute the stuff they depend on it does help influence Business results and I think in general that's the true key to open source sustainability is to ensure Companies and organizations contribute to software that they depend on So in the in other in the other kind of questions I looked at you know the data about collaborating contributing initiating or influencing Open source project and again, it seems like we are reaching some some Reflection that there's some that there's some data the data there shows that there isn't going to be major aberrations and what we think about like for the data about collaboration You know, for instance It's uh, it's one of the larger questions that marks, you know, how we're thinking about participating in open source organizations a lot of this too. I think it reflects how influential The open source communities have been that have had a higher profile external to open source program offices, which helps kind of reflect on You know the the actual recognition of open source and the recognition of open source program offices Definitely Would you uh, would you add anything to that about the about the collaboration with peer cross open source projects or foundations? I would think that the that the foundation The foundations that have had apartments. I mean we we base a lot of our coverage on projects for instance that we're following I mean foundations are there basically just to serve behind the scenes You know any any project or you know thing that gets large enough you want a Neutral entity or a fair, you know a set of rules to collaborate right businesses are inherently kind of cut throat and You know compete in in the market And if the rules aren't fair for people to collaborate on a project, whether it's something like kubernetes Which is widely used or something like linux. Uh, the rules, you know companies don't Don't want to collaborate if the rules are fair. It's it's kind of like, you know, the analogy would be You know a sports match, you know, maybe you play You know Baseball right and if the rules were somehow, you know set up in a way where one team Is able to have more people on the field than in other like, you know, why would you play that game? right I kind of view foundations in a similar role where they're there to kind of really enforce fair governance And kind of keep kind of the ip clean so companies could actually build commercial solutions or or or safely build products on top of things without without worrying it the really cool little bit, um, you know that I kind of Think here is i'm seeing more and more and user companies out there contributing open-source projects and doing new stuff for example um, a company called spotify, which i'm sure many of you, you know have used or heard of uh has developed some really cool developer portal technology called backstage Uh, essentially it serves as their in-house, you know developer portal that hooks up all their different tools And they decided to just share it with the world So if you go to backstage.io you could check it out, but you know, there are essentially a music streaming Company, you know But they've decided to share what they built with everyone to help get others improved to improve it because you know It's not on their line of business So what intellectual property really there is related to music streaming They're just trying to improve how the developers build the software So I think you're going to continue to see more and more that trend of end users Out there, you know, not traditionally vendors contributing more Code out there to collaborate with peers in the industry Yeah, and I think it's important to point out that it's not entirely altruistic either I mean, they've had to like create their own tools at many times I mean, maybe look at the history of of open source over the past five to 10 years A lot of the at-scale companies just couldn't use off the shelf tools And so they started building projects and they needed people Who were their peers to be participating as well so they could get some feedback from house Exactly. I mean you look at a project like Envoy that came from Lyft, right? You know Lyft is scooters and you know ride sharing and They were not happy with nginx at that time because there were certain features that they couldn't get out of the Pro addition and the open source addition that they couldn't contribute back up because it was in the pro edition So they're like, let's go build something from scratch and Envoy was born and then Envoy is a you know Service slash reverse proxy that is used all over You know the place these days So it kind of just shows how an end user that may not be happy with their existing You know vendor relationship or tool they're using like hey, we could build it ourselves You know is I think this all goes to the trend of you know You know digital transformation and companies becoming software companies as you know You build out a software competency You're going to start to build cool solutions that solve problems for you that may solve problems for others that you decide to share and we are starting to see some interest Among companies that are not necessarily at scale consumer internet technology companies such as Spotify or Lyft We're starting to see companies who may be in more business settings having a much larger role for open source And initiating projects and participating projects I think you have Bloomberg as an example in the financial sector Now absolutely. I mean you saw from today's keynote from gab from the fintech open source foundation or finnauss is they're essentially getting all these Say traditional very traditional finance heavily regulated companies a safe place to collaborate and share software and ideas. So yeah, I think you're you're definitely Definitely right with that point Is there any data here from this year and this first slide that you think is Noteworthy or interesting that you'd like to that you'd like to highlight Just a simple trend of more companies contributing to upstream and releasing new projects I think that's just reflective of kind of what we see in public I think other than that that's no surprises as far as i'm called As far as I as far as I could see Great So we're looking at the top open source activities Indian enterprise And one of the things that we still see time to time again is compliance and come how compliance is still a focus for for open source program offices Now in this in these results We are seeing that Open source code is being used internally Quite a bit. They use it to you know, at least some of the time is like, you know I think how the question was was asked and so when you think about that then that compliance makes sense Doesn't it chris in terms of because they have to make sure they're using the right versions of everything Yeah, I mean, it's just it's a legal thing at the at this issue to ensure that you're compliant Right, you're using software under a specific license and you have to ensure that from a legally, you know Coach your point of view you comply with those terms. So yeah, I mean compliance is always going to be a focus of A lot of open source You know program management program management making that process a lot more efficient for Engineering teams and so on I think is also kind of an important goal. But yeah, I mean, this is this This is no surprise here as far as I'm concerned The contributing code upstream is super interesting. Um, you know, I think that is growing Over time, you know from my discussions with a lot of companies out there, uh, you know Not enough companies contribute stuff upstream You know, a lot of companies just kind of go on about their lives and you know, just do what they need to It's it's you know, open source is usually all mutual self-interest at the end of the day But I really like to see that that number improve over over time Yeah, it's it's 51. So it's gone past that halfway point the But that's also reflected in the 70 of companies who are regularly including open source in their products, right? So Now if they're using open source in their products and they're gonna they should be participating upstream to some extent, right? Yeah, absolutely, but it is a Go ahead Yeah, no, I mean, it's it's a cultural change for companies to contribute upstream It's not easy. There's generally sometimes legal dances and other things that are done So for companies from a more traditional setting, uh, it it takes time. So And a lot of this data I see go there's things that go that that go hand in hand like I was mentioning before like If you're going to be just being upstream projects prior to COVID-19, you'd be traveling to conferences because you'd be meeting with people to talk to them On the end user question because we're focusing a lot on end users at the news stack And we find that the end user stories are really interesting We we talked to the you know, wicked media and you know, which runs wicked And there's there's all kinds of scaling issues that they're having, you know, for instance because they might You know, people may not know it but the wicked media actually runs, you know, the you know The wiki software that is used by tiny organizations and very large organizations and is used in wikipedia itself And so when you're so now they're they're thinking of all kinds of issues around scale and wicked media is quite involved In the see it in you know in in the kubernetes community and the cnc app and the cloud native ecosystem Do you have any perspective you can provide about what kind of increases you're seeing in the cnc app around cloud nadir projects in terms of end users participation I mean, I think in general more end user companies are participating in open source Projects it's not just traditionally vendors which has kind of been the history of of open, you know open like massive open source participation Like I mentioned before you have companies like lyft. Uh, you have uber spotify The banks uh bloomberg like like these organizations are all finding ways to Participate in in the upstream because they've realized the pain that you know, if if you're not part of Contributing upstream. It's hard to influence the direction of you know, a project in my perspective Okay, my Did I skip one now? This is the next slide here Yep you know I They people have these open source program offices. They're going to create they're looking to increase adoption. They're looking to promote open source culture Improve license compliance. There's some interesting kind of variations in the state if you look at it on github That shows for instance that you know that we'll get to this in a minute But how the open source program offices are actually narrowing their focus to try to be more You know just so they can do more with what they have um but this again is information here that shows that Open source is part of organizations. It hasn't changed much in three years I I think we can pretty much kind of summarize it. This is what we've been talking about for the past 10 15 minutes Is there anything else you'd add? No, I think it just kind of shows that companies are you know having open source programs Whether they're formal informal and they're creating policies to kind of ensure that you know Their organization runs more efficiently from creating products to other engineering practices. Yep, so I think we can move on Now there's some interesting there's some data here that uh that I think is Is interesting though because it does show that for instance That we're starting to see More focus again on on the program offices overall Now you might look at this data for instance and say oh look Owning an overseeing execution of open source strategy It's gone from 67 to 53 percent, which is a Healthy drop, but when you look at the data a little bit more closely you'll notice that first of all, there was some um There's some there's some more focus in these offices, but the but still The open source offices are participating In the open source programs they are part of the strategy But as this but as the number of projects increase You can't do it all you have to be able to focus on you know on the core values of the organization Yeah, I mean it's this data is kind of a little bit variable in some places where compliance seems to have like ping pong Back and forth and there's been kind of a decrease of You know owning you know overall execution of open source strategy and I think part of that is Every open source office is a little bit different right obviously the informal ones are not going to be Fully, you know in control of open source strategy that may be delegated down to the actual business unit and kind of the informal Open source program is there to kind of assist to ensure you know practices are being followed Is you know being respected and and so on so it's it's kind of interesting to You know see the data because you know in some ways since open source is becoming super common place A lot of the business units or products, you know are kind of owning You know some of the overall direction of whether you know Their stuff will be open source or parts of it will be um, you know open source and that open source program really serves as a kind of service role You know to the organization versus actually overseeing The whole strategy for for for the organization, but we'll see that's just a thesis We'll kind of you know It'll be interesting to kind of dive in the data in the future to see how that's reflected across different industry verticals and so on So i'm kind of excited to dive into that later We have a question actually and I thought we should just ask it because we you know, we don't have a lot of time and it comes from Motioner jay who's asking what are your recommendations for government sectors software and cloud-based services? And I think he's probably asking about Program offices in particular an open source. Yeah, I think and so So there's two things here one um, you know i'm a uh, so uh, there are governments out there that you know like the canada uk Kind of have open source program offices within kind of their digital services organization, so I think as a government entity having some type of office for you know, whether you know, it's Digital transformation whatever you want to call it something that's kind of dedicated into improving the consumption of open source Within a government organization is important. Um, you know, i'm a firm believer that you know Tax-based revenue or revenue that's essentially used to build software in a government setting That stuff should be open source to begin with and so having somebody to help Improve that is important. You know, there has been work Out there by certain organizations within at least in the u.s. There's been a source An open source policy that they've open source for all the government to ensure that you know Some level of software that they're building is actually open source France has also been developing a kind of generic open source policy to be used by The uh, you know, eu member countries that you could find online But yeah, I think in in general like having you know An open source program for a government. It should be no different really from you know In a company you just you're just optimizing for different things for a government You generally want you want to optimize the production and usage Of open source software to either save money for your constituencies and and so on so hopefully that answers your question But I will send out some information with kind of links for those policies for for governments. But yeah It was that we've given that we have a few minutes left Alex. Maybe we'll kind of wrap up on kind of one Um One point maybe I think given it's time. It's coveted times. Maybe you should wrap up the last point regarding the funding levels I believe that's uh Yeah, there there it is So I It's been interesting at least you know, um With with my cnc f had on and cloud cloud native had on I've actually seen An acceleration of people and organizations out there Accelerating the move the cloud and spending more money to kind of get there With the thesis that they're going to save money in the long run I think open source is a huge part of that journey. I think we've seen in general that Even though, um, you know, we're living in very kind of unique pandemic times There is a desire to increase Funding for open source programs in these times. Most people are neutral And very few people are looking kind of, um, you know, decreased around around 10% So, uh, I think in general open source tends to be very counter cyclical when it comes to Tough economic times if we looked at the last Recession things like red hat, you know, boomed and open source companies in general were seated a lot of the time that I've done extremely well You know these days given all the kind of open source, you know IPOs out there such as mongo and elastic and so on so I think we'll see similar things where companies are going to step back and look to invest more in Ways to optimize how they do engineering and other cost efficiencies that they could look for and open source is going to be a huge Part of that in my opinion Yeah, just some vertical industry data that we haven't Had time to get put into uh, you know into this survey but For instance, I mean you're talking earlier about, you know, vertical industries that are Increasing their usage of open source software Our data actually showed that 42 or the 31 health care respondents Said they are at least sometimes contributing upstream and that in 2019 that figure was 23 and We think we can contribute attribute that to the cover 19 projects Yeah, I mean it'll be interesting to slice the data once we fully open source it out there So, um, I look forward to kind of getting that done given that we're kind of I think we hit our time Limit as far as I'm concerned, maybe not. I thought we had 30 minutes. Maybe you correct me I'm just going to keep going until they tell us to let's do it. Let's do it They kick us off the stage. Um, so top five Yeah, the top five benefits for existing programs in 2020 Um, uh, increase innovation awareness of open source Uh, and commercial benzene one thing that I that I think is interesting and maybe this will change this here is that I I think of open source program offices have historically been almost like knowledge management Um groups, they actually have they have so much Knowledge that they they have and traditionally knowledge management groups don't get a lot of funding And I think it's true of open source program offices. They haven't had significant amounts of funding And that then affects their visibility internally, um, added, you know, inside of an organization Inside of an organization Is that changing? Do you think that we're start going to start to see more More bigger budgets and more visibility at a higher level It's so mixed across the board I mean if you look at like an organization like google or intel they spend tons and tons of money on huge amounts of staff Other organizations tend to be a little bit smaller. Sometimes it's individual or it's part time. I think, you know I don't want to look at it purely from like a fiscal perspective I'd like to look at more from like an impact perspective like what you know, what what does an open source organization You know, what impact does it have for the overall? You know organization in terms of like, you know Either efficiency or you know, what they're able to kind of uh impact from like a business results perspective So I don't think that's always inherently tied how well funded An organization is but you know, we'll see how the data, you know changes year over year I'll be curious to see how things evolve in the post Kind of covet era and and see if truly the the theory that open source is a counter cyclical Thing during during tough times and we'll see if there's more investment. I don't know We're still very early. We did the survey in may and june So, you know understand that that that's specific time slice of the pandemic That's the kind of data that we are working with right Again, maybe I talked about the challenges awareness and support. This is what people are saying budgets Influencing open source project internal awareness of the programs um We need to wrap up in just a minute. So we're going to have to run but I think maybe just in conclusion We should just say hey, this has been another year for another Another example of the of the advancement of open source um I'll wait to see if that actual 82 percent number goes up to 99 percent To chris and and how that'll affect the other numbers But it seems like we're on where we're still on an upward increase. It does seem that there is some kind of like I don't know like like some flatness in open source program offices and and in terms of like I'm looking to see what's going to like help them get to that next level Maybe in conclusion, you can help us understand that because it's so critical to open source overall in enterprise organizations Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is an awareness thing I think a lot of companies don't understand the needs for formal open source program management unless they felt pain Whether it's a compliance thing or you know, something that an engineer done I mean, I think the the analogy I use go back to house, you know, uh, Secure uh chief security officers and security offices You know were formed it wasn't until I think the mid 90s where the first one was formed And that was due to security incidents and over time almost every organization now Has someone responsible for security because they probably Have felt some pain Right and I think you know a similar pattern will will play over time with open source program offices where Companies will learn from their peers in the industry and they may have felt pain that they're like, oh my gosh We had a clients issue. We need to establish an open source program office or oh cool. Look another organization out there Um, you know has uh an open source program So, uh, we're going to learn from what they did but on that Look forward to you know collaborating with you in the future and everyone kind of see the results on 2dgroup.org Just find it on our github Thank you very much Thanks chris. Thank you very much. Thanks to the open source summit for having us today We look forward to more research on this topic. Bye. Bye. Thank you Thanks