 Boom. What's up, fam? Sorry no video today. You're seeing a ghost president Johnson Episode 141 of the red man group sponsored by 21 university calm and 21 university apps check out 21 university calm and Join there and start 30 a free trial get early access to 21 convention speeches and exclusive speeches as well They're not on the giant YouTube channel 20 studios Today on episode 141 of the red man group how to spot liars and manipulators I'll be joined by DDJ Bob Lewis author of the feminine slime coach Noah Ravoy and pastor Michael Foster all returning guests to the show and Two of which are alumni speakers of the 21th Convention without further ado. Here's DDJ No, Ravoy and Michael Foster. Hey done boys Doing very well nice to be here again. Good Blackwise I appreciate you guys The you're missing that video, but I'm here in spirit and it's down You know exactly like it says how to spot liars and manipulators We can go as beyond that as well and I want to you know, how to deal with them, you know issues like that This is something Michael Foster. I talked about a little bit about potentially speaking at the 21 convention someday about It's something that is very near and dear to my heart. I think it's very important to men To be able to navigate life and how to spot it with women how to spot it with men how to spot it in your personal life How to spot it in the workplace and beyond So kind of opening thoughts, uh, you know, what do you guys think about this in general? Are men in the man's sphere? Are they attuned to these kind of things enough because they talk a lot trash about you know Spotting bpd checks and these things and they all take the red pill and they're all alpha males Uh, what do you guys thoughts on what you've seen in the man's sphere and men and their ability to spot the manipulation lies Do you mind if I take the lead on this one? Go ahead DJ All right, so I think that A lot of people I mean people get drawn to the man's sphere for a variety of reasons But I think that the the thing that people need to realize is that everybody gets lied to And you know, I've done videos and Anthony you and I have had extensive conversations about the red pill blind spot And and what I've seen is at least from my experience in the man's sphere being here for You know four years five years at you know actively and watching it for probably another Seven or eight. I think that the thing that I see is We we listen to these people Advises on you know, narcissistic women on dark triad women on dishonest women and how to how to spot those types of things But I think that we don't actually You don't see very many men in the man's sphere saying look You need to be paying attention to the dishonest men in the man's sphere as well because again, you know some of these people lie just as much as is the the dishonest females that they talk about and I think that The problem that you have with that is is that They are setting men up for failure because a lot of times when it comes to dishonesty You know, some of these men are just as dishonest as is the women that they talk about So I think that those things are important and you and you have to operate with a sense of ethics and absolute morality How dare you bring up ethics in the man's sphere? That's feminine energy. DJ. It's feminine. I got your feminine energy hanging Michael do you want to go next? Sure, I would say one of the defining characteristics of weak men is that they're orbiters, right? So they're desperate for direction of validation almost certainly due to the poor relationships that they have with their father with father figures And so they end up orbiting around two types of people first is women um and second is narcissistic larger than life male personalities and um I think it's a function of them lacking direction of validation in their mind having a woman validates that they're a man And having the approval of a father figure validates that they are a man So they're on a desperate quest to to get both They think if they show devotion to these type of people that this will result in some sort of reciprocal feeling And we see this a lot with their attitude towards women, but it's not so right and that's why many of the kind of white knight types and Uh Blue pill to you know, blue pill red pill is like a mix Mixed value as labels go but nonetheless a lot of these orbiters and as bitter men because They they tell women that they're brave stunning beautiful, whatever they rush to their to their defense even when they're being Morally horrible, right? and they defend them against the tractors and they show undying loyalty to their alpha guru type male same way very similar So they connect themselves to some sort of personality. It's kind of like a tribal chieftain And they defend him against nasty detractors and And so they hope they'll get the approval that they desire then if they do this But that's not how it works because relationship isn't reciprocal almost always right women don't respect weak men And neither do these alpha guru types at best They'll they'll use them especially the men and that's why these orbiters turn into bitter men and they when they crash into the hard ground of reality of how these relationships work women respect men That uh to use Noah's word have agency right that are leaders that are strong and that's true of other other Other men as well like a true father figure Like a real father wants his son To grow up to be a man to be a peer at some level, right? There's a sense where a father will always be ahead of his son just because of years like lease lord willing But there's a time where he reaches manhood and he now is what you are a man, right? That's what a father wants What a lot of guys do is what a lot of women will do Which is they kind of neg these orbiters Right just right to keep them in secure and keep them in the orbit because it makes them feel powerful It makes the women feel beautiful and makes the men feel powerful. So a lot of these alpha gurus think they're leaders of men But they're not leading them anywhere. They're just keeping men Very very weak and very insecure. So they'll stay dependent on them Because really they're seeking validation as well, right? So there's leaders of sheep There's not they're not really men. These are leaders of sheep basically the best Yeah, they're keeping these guys broken so they can profit from them whether it be money Right, but it's not always the griffs. Not always about money right there's Fame attention strength influence especially as men age So young men tend to care about sex Middle-aged men tend to care about money older men tend to carry care deeply about influence And power, you know, those are that's speaking very broadly, of course, all those things overlap to some degree But older men when they feel like they're not getting the respect that they're they're owed they they get They get uh, kind of untethered and they don't do well. So I think a lot of these alpha gurus, uh If you look at their stage in life and where they're at I do think they're they're really after validation themselves So I think that's kind of the baseline psychology That's that's going on there. There's a lot of other aspects in terms of the tactics they use to manipulate that, right? Now, I think that's a really good point. No, and I want to or excuse me. No, uh, um, it's all these biblical names Michael thinking like Noah's Ark Um, I'll revisit that later though the money issue because everyone thinks it's like follow the money Follow the money and there's a reason that's saying exists I think like, you know, it's a stereotype But you're hitting the nail in the head here that it's about more than that at least in this context And that there are other resource resources that these These uh sheep and wolf clothing wolves clothing that they're after validation and these kind of Feeding their god complex and whatever other issues or play But nobody wants to talk about that because it sounds too far fetched and abstract, but it's real Noah do you have some opening thoughts on? How to spot liars and manipulators in the man to sphere and how men are currently dealing with that in our space You know, one of the things that michael brought up that's really important is that they use the same tactics that manipulative women use And one of the common things that manipulators do is they'll say look at that guy over there or that woman that person They're trying to manipulate. Don't worry. I'm on your side I got your back and they'll they'll give you like the hug of death They'll pretend to pull you in on their their team And what it is is as long as you're looking at that other person as the only manipulator That's the enemy they can stab you in the back all they want take advantage of you as much as they want And you're not looking at them. You're not expecting it to come from behind You're expecting it to be from that person They're pointing at and it's this kind of distraction that they have and the way, you know The thing is with manipulation manipulation is all based on lies. There's usually a lot of truth in it as well So you have this mix, but it's not purely truth. It's a mix of truth and lies then you end up with manipulation And The the important thing to know is is that they want something from you in a non reciprocal relationship, you know, there are There are you know, I have a lot of young men come to me Looking for help and they're not orbiters and I won't let them orbit They have to move. They have to progress. I want to see them Regularly progressing because if any year or two they haven't really changed into better men and basically I tell them the moment they come in that in a year or two you're going to be mentoring other men Because I can't mentor all the young broken young men in the world. You're going to have to mentor men I want to create like a wave so that it goes out. So it's not all about me As long as you're Not letting these young males grow into men We know there's manipulation going on. So you see broken men that stay saying repeating the same phrases for 10 or 15 years You know it. It's a say it's the same thing and manipulators They they live on repetition So they keep repeating the same basic thing over and over again and they will brainwash you into believing it Repetition is important for learning But you'll see the same people haven't changed for 10 15 years since they first joined the manisphere They're teaching the exact same thing and they're they're the people they pull in are in the exact same place And yeah, maybe some of what they say is true, but that's that's not that's not helping progress That's not helping mature men and it's not really good for men men should never be static Yep, well put Noah and I've seen a lot of this in the manisphere for so long like 15 years Like you're saying I've seen I've seen like miniature cycles of history in the manisphere repeat themselves over and over again And I see these young bucks come in, you know, they've been here for like two three years And I think they know the space and it's like man You have no idea But also on a on a more individual level what's actually happening with those revolving door guys They come in they say the same shit for a couple years They roll out or they stick around and definitely like this this Lost sheep and per manisphere purgatory and that is repeating hypergamy hypergamy Or other bullshit too, right? It's not just that it can be intergame intergame Or they can be all about tactics and tactics and tactics and blah blah blah like whatever the whatever the repetitive concept is it's like It's so weird rsd. You know, I think super guilty of this. They've been doing it for They have some of the worst guys I've ever seen in the manisphere. Well, well, what's happened is is that there's been kind of a ghettoification of the manisphere And what like like what you said, you know, when you repeat something to a certain level It no longer becomes valuable advice. It becomes a platitude and it's like what Muhammad Ali said He said look if you're the same man at 50 that you were at 20 you've wasted 30 years of your life And the and the and the big challenge that people need to have and I think Noah hit the nail on the head is that You know Voices in the manisphere voices like us voices like, you know The other ethical people that are trying to do the right thing in the manisphere. It's not about us We're just we're just a voice. We're not necessarily leaders per se Many people may see us as leaders at some level, but the point is this It's about empowering everybody else to be a leader And so I like I'm starting to move away from this idea of alpha beta And the reason I'm kind of moving away from it is because I think it's a misnomer And I've talked about this, you know, over the last couple years a little bit And and what I mean by that is is like if you look at social animals, right The social animals you have your your alpha and then you have a bunch of betas, but these betas are not they're not disempowered, right? They're not They're not the cucks. They're not the bottom of the barrel They are the number two in line and what people don't understand is is that the alpha in that social grouping Retires and becomes a beta themselves or it gets older or does whatever they need to do These are natural stages in life through all social mammals And you see this specifically in wolves, right? So I think that just to use one example of many But I think that the issue here Is that, you know, you you listen to people in a professional sphere, you know Whether it be, you know managers or accountants or anybody who's an entrepreneur And one of the things you realize is look in order to be a successful business You have to make cost-benefit analysis Type decisions every day. You have to reconcile your business. You have to reconcile your books You have to reconcile your money and you have to make a determination of the decisions that you've already made You need to say look we need to do a cost-benefit analysis of This decision I made maybe a month ago to make sure it's still working with our business The problem is is that because we lack this healthy multi-generational mentorship Both in the manasphere and elsewhere Is that we don't do this same sort of business reconciliation cost-benefit analysis With interpersonal and intimate relationships now When when when guys in the manasphere talk about this both in the migtap community and in the dating coach pua community their solution is just Walk away at the first sign of trouble, right? That's not a solution sometimes sometimes you you're cutting off your nose despite your face And I think that this is a a really serious issue in the manasphere because I'm going to take my toys and go home is not always the right decision and you know, I mean Obviously, you know being from the migtap community. I'm not going to get super excited about Um, you know people marrying most modern women in 2021 But if you're in a relationship or you're in a marriage And and that marriage is working for you that relationship is working for you more power to you But on the same token part of the reason that that marriage and that relationship works Is because you're doing a cost-benefit analysis and you're taking corrective action But part of that corrective action Doesn't always have to include absolutes, right? And I think that the other side of this is is is again, it's what you know, michael foster talked about It's what noor bevoy talked about is that this idea that You have these weak men who are being manipulated by these other slightly stronger weak men and and they're saying yeah, look over there Don't look at me. Don't look at the manipulation. I'm doing and and you know, this is what's going on and and again A broken clock is right twice a day, right? But the problem that you have is is it again, it's like facebook If you look at facebook live now you get these people that that use facebook live is like a Is like a therapy and a valid validation and then all the people watching their facebook live thing is like Yeah, we love your mental illness. Go ahead and give us more. It's like it's like a jerry springer show And you see some of this in the mana sphere now too because the internet is matured The the community is matured and and you get this ghetto ghettoification of Of the mana sphere space and so now, you know, you get these people that they don't have anything valid to say So i'm gonna go ahead and i'm gonna have a whole channel Focused on denigrating somebody or i'm gonna have a focus of a whole channel focused on negative um reinforcement And and anybody who disagrees with me, we can't really have a conversation but on the same token Um, i'm gonna denigrate you too now That's not to say that there aren't concerned trolls out there or that they're not sock puppets out there that are that are meant Or or that have infiltrated the mana sphere in an effort to divide and and we've seen a lot of evidence of that too But i call them the the beta mouth police is what i call them the bmp Right, but i'm talking i'm talking about people that masquerade is as members of the mana sphere But they're but they're they work for a social justice ngo Oh, these are the police captains of the bmp. These are the chiefs. Yeah, but i'm just saying that again It's it's those people that Their goal is to disrupt and you see this now in the migthouse space There's next to nobody making new migthouse content anymore because they were so successful in their disruption campaign And these these aren't just um You know people who are anti migthouse per se. These are multi million dollar multi billion dollar organizations hiring Armies of sock puppets to denigrate something and or or to misinform the populace We've seen others situations where people will go in and they'll make a youtube channel And maybe they're popular for a year and they blow up out of nowhere And you realize when you think about you're like, wow, how do you get so many views or how do you get so many subscribers when you understand The arab spring from 2008 and 2010 and the lie that was um perpetuated with it The arab spring was a social media manipulation campaign used to overthrow governments Nobody likes to talk about that. Nobody wants to have that conversation and and and give social media that sort of of power But then in the 2016 campaign hillary clinton had her online troll army called correct the record and all these things Are really super important because now you fast forward to 2021 And you have people walking in the manasphere doing the same thing Some of them are masquerade are masquerading as manasphere voices Some are masquerading as dating coaches and many of them It's again, it's all a sock puppet astroturf movement And I agree that the the long-term impact of a lot of these things is we're weakening men We are not strengthening men and and you see these men that are in the same place that they were when they started And I agree. I mean michael foster hit that right on the head when he said look, you know, these people are stagnant You know, that's why when we say women are human beings and men are human doings because you have to be constantly moving forward And constantly evolving and if you're not You're eventually going to drown and and anybody everybody that's the No one's immune from this. I don't care how masculine you are or anything else if you destroy the supports of masculinity Every man falls Well, this is I was tweeting this the other day Had a little wine and I was you know, thinking about something michael foster says michael fosters fond of this saying that patriarchy is inevitable Inevitable, which I love my my statements on hats is a little bit different features patriarchy, but it's very similar to that But at the same time I think about it not only in terms of patriarchy, but masculinity like you're saying dj And it's essentially that no one is above the laws of masculinity. No man. It's hard coded into your dna It's hard coded into if you're christian or religious There are uh, you know supernatural being or whatever that has built this into how human beings need to work and must work And if they don't there's consequences I look at it from a secular nature perspective, but to me it's very very similar And that's for every man if you have a wife from the zone and you're born with the penis and balls You there are certain conditions that have been established before long before you were born And your fathers and great-grandfathers to the thousands of years ago And you have to live by those and if you don't There's gonna be consequences and your life's gonna get wrecked nature's gonna crush you and some other or some of the capacity Adapt or die comes to mind as well ddj is one thing I'll push back and you want a little bit and You know, I've gone back and forth on the alpha male beta male thing how to use these terms or not Is it fun? Is it useful? Is it stupid? Later I've been using them a lot. I have you know, I've gone back to loving them a lot using them a lot And I use them kind of like uh, jesse lee peterson reverend peterson uses And I use them to number one trigger people particularly men But also some feminists and shit like that But number two, I don't actually I don't I'm not necessarily using them in some like, you know Evo psych sense beta male alpha male like wolf thing I'm using it in terms of a shorthand Reference to a spectrum of masculinity less masculine being beta more masculine being alpha That's what's pulling up The tweet I put out to the day they got some a little bit of traction there for michael foster and his family I was thinking about like nature shows and they're like observe the alpha male in its natural habitat surrounded by his cubs The surrounding beta males in the local ecosystem are terrified Uh, so this is out of the place of love and respect for michael and what he's what he's done with his life But I mean it too and this to me is alpha and it's in a way that's going to upset a lot of the The puas and the red pillars who suck with women But they think they're good because they have this fake secret knowledge Even though they've only banged like five girls, but they think they're slayers of the poon It's totally delusional and this upsets them because here's a guy with a late count of one who has like a million kids And is very masculine very alpha Not to kiss your ass too much in public michael, but I think you're a great role model for the man's fair Say I just put this out and this to me This is alpha and this would not be considered alpha by guys who are out like just banging, you know scores of women Uh, so anyway, that's what I mean when I use alpha beta ddj Well, I think I mean I think we're on the same page as far as that's concerned And the reality is is that the reason that I I'm kind of moving away from it Is because a lot of people use that 80 20 rule and then they say oh well You know only 20 of the people can be like michael foster And and that's patently and provably bullshit throughout history because the reality is is that many men the mainstream Of men 50 hundred 200 years ago had children that had families They had their faith. They had their communities They had all the things that the men want today and think they can't have And you know when you see this and you and you see successful families I think that should give society hope and that should basically demonstrate that look There's number one. Obviously michael foster is an example of the large family I believe no has got a reasonably sized family And so those should give people hope because the reality is the building blocks of communities Are families and and their families that are married their families with children Where biological mom a biological dad are in the bounds of a christian marriage and the children are there and christianity is unique in that There is a level of humility and a level of forgiveness that is required to be christian And the problem with you with many people in the manasphere is that they deal in absolutes and again, I'm not saying that You know Every woman is worth marrying or even every man is worth marrying for that matter. Um, I'm I'm just saying that When you see the success stories, you got to ask yourself. What are these people doing? How is it that they're making their decisions? And you know when you get to know these people you ask them You know does this stand the test of time and in many cases it does So I think that when it comes to this idea of of alpha beta What a lot of these manasphere voices say is oh, well, you know, that's only 20 percent, you know Michael foster and no other boy they they're the exception to the rule and at some level they may be But the reality is is that they were the mainstream 80 years ago Well, for well, there's a this is a perception issue here too If you talk to a high value man and you say are there more high value men or high value women Every high value man I talked to says there's tons of women out there Now if you talk to a low value man and you say Um, is there is there any women out there? He'll say No, there's no women out there and you know what they're both right for the high value man There's lots of women for the low value man. There's few women But the high and the low value man are not stuck in their position if a low value man stops taking care of himself stops Doing having a high value Lifestyle if he stops living properly, he's gonna sink down Meanwhile, you know every every 20 year old guy is pretty much A loser. It's like you just are at 20. What are you gonna do at 20? You probably have nothing going for you But by the time you're 25 30 you should have had a great life created You should have been you know doing something with your life This is why it's so important that men don't get stuck that they don't fall into one of these manipulators traps Where they're not growing up because then they're still thinking Like a 20 year old when they're 30 and 35 and 40 they're still thinking that same mentality they have and escaping that is You know, you you see a completely different mentality and a lot of it is Just stop listening to the general advice and do what work for your great grandfather to a large extent now picking women It's a little different but for a lot of things be a man be confident be fit You know, we already know how to be a high value man. Everybody knows that One of my biggest concerns is there's a lot of talk about How to avoid Horrible women and not a lot of talk about how to be a better man And my focus is always with the people I coach with the people that I talk to What do you got to do to be a better man? Rather than worrying so much about avoiding risk make yourself sufficiently robust That you can handle a bit of risk in your life I think what amazes me is uh You see these guys who are in my view in my judgment like really terrible at spotting liars and manipulators Particularly with men but also with women They'll kind of larp that they're good with you know spotting a woman But they're not there's losers with that too But then they'll come after guys like michael here, you know for having like a family and a lot of kids and stuff And they'll they'll attack you they'll denigrate you, you know, beta tradcock or whatever all this crap And uh, it just kind of it stuns me because they have like they'll have like zero kids or like one kid And then you guys have like a bunch of kids and like that is not alpha and it's like man These dudes are breeding like what there's very little that's more alpha than having The children that are biologically yours that you're sure of And it's just so it's just so delusional in any way that it comes with territory. I guess these guys Well, and I think that also in kind of dovetailing off of what noah said um These men don't know how to spot liars. They don't know how to spot manipulators and and they don't understand it like When somebody look there's always going to be someone male or female Who's going to be able to successfully lie to you they're going to be able to successfully manipulate you And you're gonna have to learn from that experience and you know, you need to be able to get out of that situation As quick as you can with as much money in your pocket as you can because you don't want to be separated from your money Your time or or your energy, right? And so I think that's why for me I think it's important that we reconcile our relationships And and you know relationships are like gardens, right? You have to tend that garden every every every day And if you don't weeds grow in its place and they choke it out and kill it And I also think that we can't allow ourselves as masculine men as men who think critically We cannot allow ourselves to be compartmentalized by the women in our lives or even the men for that matter So like you have these people that are out there and and we'll start with men You have these men out there these these manisphere voices out there and they project this particular persona, right? They put out this public image of of who they are and then You're compartmentalized in that viewpoint and you don't really know who they are now that doesn't necessarily mean that if You find out some facts about this person at the lowest point in their life that that low point Represents everything about that man, right? Especially, you know, as we age We all have high and low points in life and these things are normal But what i'm talking about is true compartmentalization people who lie to you about who they are I see so many people online who show their faces and and and use fake names Or they they have these this one room in their house that is decked out is like this amazing room with all this stuff in it But the rest of their house is just garbage because they're trying to do this success porn idea And they're like, oh look at me and i'm so great, right? So you can't allow yourself when it comes to these male voices You cannot allow yourself to be compartmentalized and anybody who successfully Compartmentalizes you is going to be In a better position to manipulate you in a better position to be dishonest with you now as far as Women are concerned when you're interacting with them in an interpersonal way It's the same thing as with men in your life You don't let them compartmentalize you whether they're a colleague at work or a a business partner Or people that you know, you're your friends within the community or even romantic interest You can't let this you know if this woman has this thing that she does and you're not a part of it ever You need to ask yourself if you're being compartmentalized and and take action accordingly, but I think that We also need to consider The idea of mirroring so you get these people like you always hear about the relationship in in it's in its beginning They're like, yeah, I agree with you 100 and this and this and that and sometimes that's not necessarily agreement Sometimes the sign of deception because they're trying to get you to lower your guard to do exactly what Noah was saying Look over there to the left. There's that dishonest person that person's scary Oh, yeah, by the way, I agree with you because what they're doing is over a period of time is is they are grooming you to be used by them and then finally I think that the to to Respond to Noah's point I don't necessarily focus a lot of my time on my channel on how men can improve But I do reiterate some basic things and they only take 10 seconds to say if you're a man exercise regularly Have a job that that's that has gainful employment Have some hobbies that you're that you're interested in that allow you to invest your time So you're not on the goddamn internet all day And you need to have something that you believe in that's greater than yourself Whether it's it's christianity or buddha or whatever my preference is christianity because it does things for People and for humanity that no other religion has done in the history of the world and these by and large are good things And so you have to have those things in your life and you have to have that spirituality and a lot of people And again, I'm not kicking on atheists per se But all these people want to start these movements that are secular and history shows us Secular movements don't survive They they they may last for five 10 15 20 years, but they don't survive They eventually they turn into a circular firing squad and they start going after people We see this now even within the the feminist communist movements They're all turning on each other because they're all vying for power We're on the same note even nations don't survive americas You reckon how long it survived as a republic and even that's not that long 200 and whatever years now Absolutely compared to christianity, which is over 2000 So yeah, and you just made my final point for me. So I will shut the fuck up and get off the soapbox Okay, yeah, I want to focus on michael foster In general for all of us, but let's go to michael go first You know, where did you before we get into more practical tips and tricks so to speak and spotting tricksters Where did you learn how to spot liars and manipulators other than just Generally by living life and surviving Did you I know michael you were a card counter for example and is that what taught you how to spot these people? for that help um Well, I I mean I grew up Okay, I think some people have a natural gift of discernment right they're sensitive to tonality and body language and they pick up on Habits and you know, it's kind of like um a friend of yours is talking and he suddenly says this phrase or word You never ever heard him say it before Right, and you're like, oh that he's been reading a book or watching a podcast and that's where that came from You know, I mean like I think some people have a natural temperament To pick up those patterns in relationships. I think that's probably true true of me um in the ministry though a big part of what we do Is try to get to the heart of matters right and like listen very carefully what's going on to people, you know With with what they're communicating and what's actually true, you know Because the thing about liars is they don't they're not they're dishonest, right? They're not straight up But there's something liars can't they always have to work from the truth. So they'll They'll they'll corrupt it. So you'll learn to listen to things like adverbs, right? You know, and this is an example. I always give people ask my son is your room clean Well, it's mostly clean, which means it's not clean, right? So adverbs are always words that weaken a statement They're qualifiers And so after a while you get to you start hearing people creating these hedging statements these back doors to get Get out of accountability and not not own up for things You know, and so you you you learn that in the ministry. I also grew up in a broken home full of a lot of alcohol abuse a lot of um Gambling just just bad bad relationships and everything you get kind of sensitive to that So for me, I think it was a mixture of a natural temperament the way I grew up And in the ministry you're you're taught if you are trained well, which To god's glory. I was thankfully You listen very careful to what people are saying and whether or not it's it's true You know, it's congruent with their actions. It's congruent with their whole life And that's and that's why manipulators are Online because you don't know their life, right? You don't know anything about them. All right. They're in good shape awesome great Do they know how to resolve a conflict with their life? Or do they just have to like are they a big baby that has a gym bag by the door? and they grab their gym bag every time and leave when they get an argument with a woman because They're so weak. They can't resolve that argument. They have to Freak her out that they're gonna leave Up their dread game I'm not saying there isn't a time to just like get out of the situation and let her know that she can't rule you But if that's her go to for resolving conflict You're pathetic, right men learn how to resolve conflict with women. Yeah, but you don't You don't know this When all you see is what people say they do online Right, you don't know their life and that's why actually having real-world fraternity is so important that online Is the supplement right supplements are good, but it's not a meal. It's you can't live you can't masculinity is caught More than it's taught, right? That's why fathers are so important and with a lot of these these guys online You don't you don't know the reality of their life and they people and people just assume I was talking about this the other day someone asked me if I ever lose my temper with my kids And I was like man, that is a dumb question. Of course I do Like what in the world would make you think that I'm like this perfect father What are you talking about how to be a father online? Well, yeah So what those are like tips? These are things I'm working through but for some reason You just assume that I've got this all figured out I've come to learn that a lot of men kind of think that way about social media influencers They just assume like they've got it all figured out and like to me that's strange. I don't I think the opposite Right because I know my own it's unrealistic and it's it's hyper idealistic like they absolutely They see you give a tip, you know about something and they just idolize you to the extreme It's some sort of I think when you open up the show, Michael You're talking about the roots and trauma and the psychological roots of where uh, this manipulation comes from and you know, they're looking up to these uh These gurus and stuff and it's all fake But they're looking it's like they're hungry one of our old speakers greg swan used to call a father hunger They're hungry for a father or a father figure and they didn't have it and it's a wound That's still like bleeding essentially psychologically or spiritually Absolutely, this is for like 10 20 30 years at a time not just like a couple months or a couple years It's a long-term pattern of behavior And it's really sad and it comes with very negative disturbing consequences You mentioned for example, uh, you know, you're talking a lot about this shield Kind of that the internet creates around these public personas that these fraudsters create and stuff And the man is fair in other industries, too It's it's not just the man is fair. It's every industry And I really tried to focus on that and my documentary about the truth about donovan sharp Highlighting the public figure andrew gillum the former mayor of telehassy comparing contrasting that has run for governor Then getting busted for smoking crystal meth and banging a gay hooker behind his wife's back and his kid's back And it's like people want to blame politicians too easily and it's like it's not just them It's all the public figures almost there's a there's a there's a percentage who are genuine and authentic and savage And then loosely speaking the other 80 percent or 70 percent or whatever Are a bunch of losers who are just complete fakes and it's all manufactured internet presence at this point And it used to be much more even before the internet. It was through media tv magazines and stuff It's all this manufactured fake matrix type reality to use like a matrix analogy And it's really fucked up and I think what guys are surprised with like people were like I need to address this in part two of my documentary But they're like, why didn't you come out sooner about donovan this and that And there are timeline reasons why because I didn't know everything People like assume I knew everything all the time. That's not even remotely true. The opposite is true It was a slow trickle But essentially a system though that I think what I think would be helpful just to point out real quick is that um There is so I used to I have I used to live in blimmyton, indiana So I have a lot of friends who got their phd and went on to become professors Um, so I just have a lot of friends in the academia And they would talk about the conspiracy of lazy students and lazy professors That lazy professors don't want to give out homework because they don't want to grade it, right? and um, well, there there's a conspiracy in The manifest in any social media area between The viewers followers fans whatever you want to call them And and the content creators the fans don't want reality Like many of them don't They want you to lie to them Right they and and and then some of those content creators who don't have a commitment To truth and they're trying to build a uh a followership a fan base whatever subscribers get their money up They um They will actually give the people what they want, right? They'll say oh that played really well and and they start to cater to the hunger to the desire And so I don't want to make these guys out. They are being duped Right, but many of them want to be duped, right? They just want to you know I couldn't agree more I mean I've been thinking about that a lot and I think in the mandatory even where in the where the red pill Is valued in the mixtape community in the red pill community and to a lesser extent and the men's rights and pickup artists They don't actually want the red pill. They just want the feeling of taking the red pill They want the feeling of having Allegedly secret knowledge about women and masculinity in the world And for the most part it's not entirely bullshit, but for the most part it's just bullshit It's hurt wounded beta males and sheep and wolf's clothing pretending to be quote unquote alpha males to teach these beta males about uh women and life and masculinity And it's this it's this incredible inception level circle jerk of fakery and it's all nonsense I mean I know so this is what I was getting at earlier too, michael is that The reason my documentary by donovan was so shocking and what a lot of guys are not still getting Is that number one to to expose someone at that level for three hour? You know expose a like that you have to know them in real life. You have to be able to see beyond the veil of the internet whose audio Does that know it? Oh, yeah somebody Somebody with kids. That's for sure. I didn't mean dj boy. Yeah, whatever. My kids are old Yeah, anyway, um, the the only way to do that to expose someone at that level It's actually know them in real life for a long period of time number one So it was a unique opportunity to do that and I did it with rollo in the past as well to an extent What a lot of guys aren't getting that we're talking about here is that this is like A huge chunk of who these people follow on the internet, particularly in the manuscript, but even beyond that And so these guys are shocked like I can't believe this is true. Oh my god and the information is shocking, but It's not so shocking as to overwhelm the If this is the right word banality of it The absolute borish nature of how fucking common this is Like if you follow someone who's big on youtube and you think there's some badass With money or women or life or masculinity or whatever. They're probably a complete loser Like the the reality is the exact opposite of what they present because they're presenting what you want to hear Which is to pander to you with whatever bs is going to make you get sent super chats Which is probably going to feed into your trauma and your history and your father hunger and your woman hunger and your mommy issues And blah blah blah blah. That's like those, you know before the internet You had these confidence men that would go out there and they would be like look I'm going to turn you into a real estate investor or I'm going to make you financially independent Or I'm going to do this or I'm going to do that, right? And then when you look at these men's lives again, it was the image of success porn like uh Dan blizzard and I think is one of one of the prime examples This guy was like success porn master for years and years and years And then once somebody got close to him and they weren't compartmentalized by him They realized that everything about his life was a fraud And I also think too that that there's a huge amount of people a huge amount of men and boys Who don't turn to the man's fear because they want to be lied to They turn to the man's fear because no one else is telling them the truth in their real life Their father has been alienated from them. Even if he's still in the home They've got no, you know extended family to support them So they turn to the internet in looking for their answers because they can't find the answers in their real life And the problem is is that you look when you when you when you ask guys or when you ask people what they want to be today One of the top professions that people say they want to be is they want to be a youtuber, right? So they so they're online specifically to make money. They're not there because they care They're not there because they're trying to help. They're not there because this is their ministry or this is their calling They are there specifically to make money and and it's just like what michael foster said They know, oh, this this lie plays really well. Let's go ahead and repeat it But I think that the other piece of it is is that they're also using their content to groom These followers to believe in this sort of thing. So here let me give an example I've scripted this video. I haven't published it yet, but let me make let me make a really valid point So in the manisphere in you you're going to hear these people occasionally talk about taking women's rights away They're like, oh, we need to repeal the 19th amendment. We need to repeal A woman's right to vote that'll fix everything. Okay Now this was originated within the migtau community by somebody who does exactly this They they use repetition to groom their audiences to deal with this and what ends up happening is is that they Over years people believe this lie and so this whole take women's rights away Has has morphed into a monster of its own and it's become this idea that Everybody in the manisphere should do it. This is this this intelligent person said it So therefore we should do this right? It's like some brainy smurf bullshit So the issue here though is is that in 1989 The state of colorado Repealed women's rights to vote in their constitution. Okay. It's been repealed for 32 years. Nobody talks about it. Well, guess what? Did it change anything? Can you go to colorado when it's colorado a bastion of of slave women and masculinity where you could just bend them over like Dogs in the dog park. No Colorado is a liberal shithole. It's a stronghold. Yeah, there's pockets of of You know of america still in the state of colorado, but since 2005 it has been run By leftists if you look at the history, you know the legislature the governor The executive branch. It's all left. It's all left-wing people for the last 15 years and you know what? feminists never bitched about it when they repealed it And nobody's tried to say oh, we need to have this back in the constitution the state of colorado No, they don't care The point is is that you get these people who say something It sounds good They repeat it and they say it to an audience It's been groomed sometimes over a period of years and then they they walk off with these dysfunctional ideas That are entirely disconnected from reality And then they're like this is great So this is a perfect example But it's one of many and I think that anybody who doesn't Who who hasn't been a part of the manasphere when they go to the manasphere and they have some life experience So they have some real world leadership experience or they have Real world success in their community, right? In other words, they're involved in their community. They work hard They invest then they come into on the internet. They're like wow this place is super dysfunctional and it's true But that's part of the reason is is because again You have these people who have entered the internet in the last four or five years A lot of these people they're not there because they have any altruistic motives They're there because their motive is to pad their pocket book to get the fame And to get the respect that they feel they deserve as they age Just like michael foster and no avoid both touched on and then They don't care what they say whether it's true or not or whether it harms men or hurts men They're just going to go ahead and spit it out because look I looked at my my youtube studio analytics and I got a 99 percent you know like rating So obviously let me this this lie is a good one to repeat So it's all it's again I apologize for soap boxing, but this is something kind of hits home for me. Yeah Oh, let's get you gotta go. Yeah. Yeah, I gotta go I'm actually going to be teaching a course on agency today And that is really one of the big keys to making you immune to manipulation You know when you have control over your thoughts and your emotions and your instincts Then it's hard for other people to use those against you to manipulate you One of the best ways that you can identify a manipulator if someone's trying to manipulate you Is that they're not giving you personal responsibility? They're not putting agency on your shoulders and saying This is your problem to solve. I can help you, but this is your problem What you see instead is they sell you excuses You know a lot of men they do come to the monastery absolutely looking for solutions to their problems And when they get here Because they're human beings and humans love excuses You know and because they're still often young and undeveloped So along comes a snake oil salesman selling them excuses You can't get women because you're too short can't get women because you're not attractive You can't get women because you're not a a six figure earner and you know hypergamy and blah blah blah blah Instead of saying look you can get what you want, but you're gonna have to work for it And this is how you can earn it This is a huge difference between the manipulator and the person who's persuading who's actually trying to help you Who wants the best for you? You know watch out for anyone that's selling you an excuse. Definitely a manipulator. Thank you very much for having me on today john Anthony i'm looking forward to next time we go on and you know i'm actually writing a book on Anti manipulation that'll be out about this time next year. So in that case i'll be able to recommend the book when it comes out Outstanding. I appreciate you hopping on today. No and everything that you're doing. Sorry. We could start sooner I'm gonna work out. No problem. No problem tech tech issues happen. Have a great day You too everyone watching t you can check out the link in the description for Noah's website smv4k.com He's on twitter as well. Check out his site. We'll be linked to his twitter So man, there's a lot to go into here between ddj soapbox and noa But I do want to move on to the next question. Anyway, though, I think it'd be pretty good So for both of you and all three of us can dig into it There are any differences that you've experienced in life between spotting female manipulators and male manipulators not only You know from the inside out, but like anything that you yourself as a man Need to be aware of for example, if you're heterosexual man You don't want to put your penis in a male manipulator, but a female manipulator You want to put your dick inside of and in my view that would make you emotionally or physically biologically compromised So just kind of What I would say is that um women naturally use Indirect language And it's not always being manipulative, right? It's just so if You know, oh and Benjamin does a really good stand-up routine on this from a long time ago, but we already talked about how Uh, if the woman wants a blanket she would point out that the room's cold Right and expect you to grab a blanket, right? She's not trying to manipulate you per se Um, she's just she wants to blanket and women are uh tend to be a little more indirect in their, uh Request a conversation. I think it's normal because I think women try to smooth everything over they try to keep relationships as uh friction free as they can The majority of the time that's not always true. Obviously, there's a love of trauma That's the flip side, but we're talking about Normal healthy women here, um would try to smooth it things out plus women don't um Uh, they don't deal with things through direct conflict because they're weaker, right? They're not as physically strong whereas a man can engage himself um in physical content or physical conflict and resolution that way so Um, so I don't think you want to treat men and women as if they're identical, right? Um In in the way they manipulate now. They are identical in the sense that they are going to obscure the truth and whatever but with men when men are being indirect in conversation They are either dreadfully insecure or manipulating you one of the two, right because men respect direct communication or communications built around building things Right, so you have to learn to say hey, let's get this done Then you do this and right. There's a linear nature to most male communication Where with female communication, it's a little more circular and kind of avoids the main point All right, so a lot of times when i'm listening to my wife's stories I'm like, where is this going? What is this about? Is there a punch line? Well, the story is a punch line The sharing of the experience is a punch line with a guy What we what we're trying to do is achieve a mission complete an action whatever so that that requires much more direct communication whereas With women it doesn't so I think with men if it's indirect then it's clearly It's more likely a manipulator so In my sense, I indirect it could also be passive aggressive. There could be a lot of variations of this, right? That's it. That's exactly right. So So I always just Try to be if I have a problem with somebody I'm very straight up. I don't wait for it to take I don't I don't just think about it. I'll just ask is there an issue do we have a problem? Here's why you know and a woman's not going to do that. She's going to kind of bounce around The topic, right? Yeah Yeah, just reminds me of in the manuscript There's a lot of people who trash talk not just me but others but they do so and they don't mention the name They make it like very clearly talking about you through Symbols and things some people for example call me like red hack guy And it's very obvious they're talking about me in a context, but they're two chicken shit They're manipulators and they're indirect. They want to address Me directly or an issue like that And in every case so if someone does this they're just a huge pussy like every time and to me It signals that they're a manipulator or certainly it's a symptom of that that should be taken very seriously red flag Basically the passive aggressive behavior red flag boom Yeah, I think there's a time to be sly in your language I you see jesus do it quite a bit With the Pharisees, but that's when he's being led into a trap and uh, they'll say they'll ask him a question He said well, let me ask you this question first, right? There's a time for it, but I think in general Indirect communication is effeminate and should men shouldn't use it with women, you know You know, there's way more topics on that That way more streams you guys have done than that I I know when my my wife was trying to manipulate me early on and And we both try to manipulate each other and we had to get to a place where um Where there's something bigger than the relationship that we're working towards for us It's fearing god serving god obeying scripture. There's a law greater than us and it's not Just a competition between who's done more Or wrong or done more right and whoever's got the most right gets to win the The argument because that's where those arguments go a lot of times in relationships Yeah, I would agree too that there's a time and place for everything So just because we view it uh men speaking this way as effeminate doesn't mean it's impossible to For a masculine man to speak that way indirectly for example as a joke or to insult somebody Uh intentionally, you know dance around the issue, which I I'm not opposed to that But that's a that's a small minority of how I would ever conduct myself I'm much more as you guys have seen like in like both of you are as well to a degree blunt direct A stand amount of feet to fight for an issuer to defend my honor To attack an issue and so on DJ do you have some comments on the differences between uh female and male manipulators? Would you experience what you think about the issue? Well, let's yeah, and let's let's start with the females first because I think that females who are married or in longer term relationships They manipulate differently than women in the dating scene or single women Women in the dating scene and single women are going to be more likely to use emotional black males such as shaming Uh, you know trying to wind you up with shit tests, you know threats guilt Um, you know certain types of of intimidation But you also have to understand too that both groups of women both married and single I think that one of the the main issues here is that their manipulation doesn't just consist of themselves So a lot of times when when when that bad faith manipulation is happening You're going to see them do whisper campaigns So they're going to contact people behind the scenes and then what they'll do is you know They'll vent to these people and be like oh this person is this and this person is that because what they're trying to do Is they're trying to pressure that person to do what they want They want to control that man or they want to control that that that partner So they create this this this environment where they've manipulated this environment into being and then like say You know you get together with your fan or your friends or you have a couples night or something like that And then you show up and then they start pushing your buttons and they start shit testing you in this super passive aggressive way In an effort to get that that response they're looking for And then when you respond in a reasonable way and you challenge them in front of the friends Then then she looks at the friends and goes see see see what I can see what i'm saying, right? and so In an effort to deal with that sort of thing you have to be a man who who has some sense of internal validation In addition to understanding that you know as a social animal some external validation is needed but when you walk into these scenarios with this type of manipulation understand that You should not allow yourself to participate in in manipulative environments created by these manipulative women Now I will say this If you're fucking up If you're doing something that's completely wrong And some of your friends step in and try to try to have an intervention because they care about you That's a horse of a different color. That's not what i'm talking about But what i'm saying is is that when it comes to a lot of these women Um, especially single women you see the compartmentalization happen And then you see these people and they try to mirror what you say and then they do these things What I like to refer to is You know the foot in the door tactic where they do this slow escalation burn Where they they they mirror you and they tell you how wonderful you are then they get you to do something small for them Then they manipulate you a little bit more and they get and they do something small And then all of a sudden that escalates and women are far better at long-term manipulation than men are And and that's just because of the nature of who and what women are, right? They don't have the physical strength that men do So they're you know, they're not necessarily designed to be as forthright as men are and like and like what michael so accurately says women communicate in it primarily in an indirect fashion and so And they're not always doing that because of manipulation But that's just the nature of females at some level But when you're talking about bad faith manipulation, they kind of turn that up a little bit now As far as male manipulation is concerned A lot of times what will happen is is that these men who want to manipulate you They will try to get your guard down And this is why I talk about like the red pill blind spot. They try to get your guard down And they try to number one they want you to perceive them as infallible So they're hoping that they're going to do things to get you to put them on a pedestal And part of that with both with male and female manipulation Part of the way that they manipulate is they compartmentalize you so in others they don't they keep big portions of their life private right and so that ends up being a huge issue And you see these people tell these half truths where they tell you the truth about something but there's something that there's like a glaring dishonesty behind it and You know, they're they're trying to manipulate you there So, you know, they want you to be they want to put you to put them on a pedestal While at the same time they're trying to puff you up in order to lower your guard Oh, you're so greater man. I didn't realize that was what was going on or this and this and that right And then when you put your guard down Then they can use that foot in the door technique and they can do the slow burn escalation of their manipulation And then if you say something about it like you go along with it because you don't understand it You say something about it Then they resort to the same tactic of that same emotional blackmail the shaming there Oh, well, I thought this and they get all passive aggressive on you So those are two ways or I should say those in my view kind of provide kind of a general primer Of a lot of the ways that men and women manipulate, but I will also tell you this Because women communicate indirectly in general For the most part, they are better manipulators as far as long-term manipulators in your particular environment And by the time you discover that a female has manipulated you Um, especially if it's a female that you've that you've trusted You're the last one to know she's already been telling other people about it She's already been, you know And sometimes she might even just black and white admit it to someone else And then by the time you figure that out and you're like, oh my gosh, this is crazy And then you talk to your friends about like, oh, yeah, she told me about this six months ago And and you're quote unquote friend never said a fucking word to you Yep, I've actually uh, I've experienced in my own life as some of the fans would know I've also seen that to the tee what you just described Uh You know girl cheating on a guy her friends, you know that know the guy find out six months in advance before he finds out Then he finds out and he finds out that these these third parties knew and he's like, you gotta be fucking kidding me I seen the guy confront girls like this like I've known you for 10 years longer than this girl How the fuck you didn't tell me And it's confusing to guys because there that guy was applying like a masculine framework to that friendship And he didn't understand that women are going to hold secrets like that Uh Even above and beyond a really extensive duration of a relationship that he had with another woman That was uh, you know not uh, intimate or anything like that. I don't know if I'm explaining that right but well And that scenario demonstrates both male and female manipulation in the same instance, right? Yeah I want to uh, so let's shift gears a little bit I want to get into more nitty gritty tips and tricks and tactics for spotting these people at the title of the episode describes I'll start off with two of my own So number one is to basically trust your gut There's something I learned from Joan of Aro and I've had a video right now. I showed the book You know his book dangerous personalities and whatnot But trust your gut and that sounds very simple because it is simple, but it's something that not enough men do They don't do it with women. They don't do it with men They get a gut feeling they get you know hair on the back of the neck They feel uneasy somehow even if it's just very faint and they don't trust it They're They're not skeptical enough of people that they don't know and they're too skeptical of their own inner Instinct and gut feeling and these things it's that's I think part of your brain your hindbrain or whatever telling you that there's Some sort of danger or something going on that you're not fully aware of But you should be wary of And I think our brains are actually very attuned to this There's a lot of research on this too, but you should trust your gut And you know trust it right off the bat Then what is the old saying your first instinct is the right one your first response is the right one That's not always going to be true literally so guys that are we're hyper analyze that be too literal but Trust your gut it'll get you a long way with spotting stuff early and keeping it at bay keeping it out of your life The second tip I'll give before one of you guys gets to go here Is that people communicate an enormous amount of information? and Almost everything that they do This is actually the root of where in the mana sphere we say like act an unverba actions over words Watch what they do not what they say or ignore what they say You know these guys in the mana sphere will do that for women because they're told to do that for women You know the red pill guru will tell them to watch what women do and ignore what they say But they won't apply this same common sense good logic An idea to men including the purveyor of that idea that that guy giving them the advice Which is the first and exact place they should put that red pill lens Is on the individual i'm happy for guys to do this now listening and i'm telling you you know With women and with men watch what they do and for the most part Ignore what they say or de-prioritize the words talk as cheap action is expensive It's more difficult to lie with action and more risky than with words which can be You know it's by some christian sayings for this and and uh, you know biblical phrases But like you know the tongue being so slippery in this and that i'm sure religions have dealt with this in many ways in multiple religions Yeah, the tongue the silver tongue and all this stuff, right The man is fierce filled with this crap these guys, you know, they keep asking me Who are the frauds? Who are this and who are that and where are the liars? How do you spot them? It's like man, they're sadly they're everywhere and it's very common and a lot of guys They're not skeptical enough You know what they see out there But again people communicate an enormous amount of information and everything they did that they do Write down to for example, you know, it's not if you're engaging with the girl for example It's not just you know what she says or the action she takes It's the speed at which she takes them in response to you that is itself conveying information conveying her how she's feeling how she's feeling about you specifically not just in general Uh, what kind of relationship she wants to have with you and how that's going to operate Is she going to be responsive to you at your beck and call or put you off and play games Or something in between men the same way, you know, if they're teasing you with all this marketing bullshit And uh, you know five copies of my ebook left and this and that This is just flagrant bullshit that doesn't make any sense But they're willing to do that and that action communicates a lot about their ethics and the principles that they're going to follow If you dig deep into it and peel off the layers of vs So those are my two tips trust your gut and just pay attention of what people do and what they say Everything that they do is conveying information even the words that you should prioritize, you know That's still that's still a thing you should look at in its own its own sense its own context Yeah, I'll I'll pivot off that a little bit. So, um So this is just a variation of what you're saying on your first one So I put this in the the live chat, but a tactic of a manipulator is to mostly focus on the subjective Uh, they'll try to make everything about what they claim is going on inside As opposed to actual words and actions So they they'll really focus and this will be the same with them, right? they'll talk about their motives or their intents or whatever and your motives and and your intent and Generally yours will be put in a negative light And there's in a positive light But as opposed to like kind of backing up and then looking at like Well, I hear what you say your motives are but here's what you did, right? And and that's what all that's what I like to focus on like what what is the actual outcome of your life? What is the actual thing that you did? Um Like you can tell me what your intentions are but here's what you said and here's what those words mean, right? And here's what what those actual actions were as well So I think manipulators are always trying to stay in the subjective because the objective is harder to edit Is harder to change where the subjective that there's always kind of Blurred edges squishiness like an ability to to to kind of shape the narrative and manipulators like to be able to Shape a narrative. So when the moment you try to nail them down They get really uneasy the moment you try to get receipts Them show you demonstrate the truth of their life or whatever They're not going to want to do that Now you want to talk about that they also are going to emphasize a very particular type of loyalty And that is the loyalty to person more so than principles So manipulators wants you to do what they want to do, right? They don't want what's best for you, but what's best for them and that's why they want a loyalty To them and not the principles principles are bigger to individuals and And that's why I always tell people that your marriage needs to terminate outside of your relationship It has to be even bigger that you guys are working towards and the problem is that a lot of marriages Exists to make each other feel satisfied and happy and I don't think humans can Satisfy make each other in an ultimate Sense satisfied and happy and so there has to be some bigger goal And I think it's got to be bigger than the children. That's why a lot of marriages I've seen a lot of marriages fall apart after that That final kid hits the senior year goes away To college that's really and it's because it became all about the kids. So for me, it's about the household It's about the legacy. It's about the glory of god And that's quite different and that's why my marriage is We are able to survive through Some dark years and difficult periods But a manipulator is going to always try to make it about Like I remember me and my wife were having a hard time Early on in our marriage we we are fighting so much that we were talking about divorce But ultimately one thing that helped us not do that is that we made a covenant we made vows We made a vow before god, right and that vow Matter that covenant mattered as part of our christian faith And so we wanted to keep our word before the lord and so there's a principle above us. That's bigger. Well Manipulators are narcissistic and ego maniacal. So there's nothing bigger than them in their mind, right ultimately and so You keep hearing they'll talk about here. You did them wrong. You're on faith for whatever. That's another one Just one more I guess is that they they do nursing you a scarcity mindset Basically say like They're the only ones that are telling the truth. We're the only ones that love you Unconditionally, you know, they'll try to make you feel like you don't have anywhere else to go And I see that I'm the true red pill bro. I'm the one true red. That's right You see that constantly constantly the red pill where Anyone that comes into the space they'll say Oh, there's all these people coming into the space trying to use the red pill and market in a christian version of the red pill And the black version of the red pill and this version, you know, they're like, but we're just trying to keep it Maintain the true orthodoxy I I don't think that's true. I honestly think That you're trying to control it on the audience for vanity sake and for income sake and And policing the orthodoxy here is less about the orthodoxy whatever that is, you know Like people always tell me I'm not true red pill. I'm like, so what's like is there a red pill bible? Right, like, you know, like what's what's your holy scriptures and some of them some of them have a book that they They treat like holy scripture, you know It just depends on what they like but what what they want to say is there's no one else out there like it's very scarce and It's just not true. There are a lot of men out there trying to help men. There are a lot of people out there with Uh, some more ideas um, they're this little niche of Of the internet, right? So there's like the manuscripts a small niche It's growing an influence, but there's a niche inside a niche And these people I want to claim that they're a little fraction of a fraction is the only place where truth is told are Gaming you they're using you. They're true. They're they're it's funny They'll talk about the importance of an abundance mindset and then they're the only ones that can give you truth It's hilarious Yeah, it's insane men before you go Michael. No, you got to go in a minute Can you just kind of recap what you started out with the show with in terms of you discuss briefly some, uh, roots Sure and draw the hunger and these things I really like that part. Um I would just say that the problem with most men Is that they don't have a clear mission and agenda for their life And they're drawn to anyone that they perceive having that and And a lot of the people online posture It may be real it might not be in many cases. We know it's not not real But a posture a clear understanding of the world of mission Of the agenda how to relate to women how to how to make money or whatever And so a lot of guys are drawn to it the question you have to ask yourself Is after digesting that content and listening to it. Are you actually building? Are you actually accomplishing something where are you remaining a consumer that this consumes the same content that like confirms that you're a passive victim um The reason you can't find a good woman is because they don't exist and that's my favorite thing Honestly with red pill is anytime I talk about where me and my wife are at they'll say well all women don't like that This is like, yeah, do you understand how funny this is? um, and I agree like women have fallen on a hard time But my me and my wife started dating like 20 years ago, you know, so I get it. There's the different times but but I think Are they keeping you a consumer of content? Or are you or or is it actually helping you produce real things in your life have have a drive a mission And in many cases, you know, it's not these guys Are are using you You're there they're they're trying to keep you Plugged in to their matrix, you know feeding off them so they can use you they're keeping you in their orbit by Negging you keeping you insecure Making you believe that only they can have happy marriages. I got all these guys telling me you can't have happy marriages Right and I'm like look I'm a pastor. I've married lots of young couples. I've done their weddings I've done their marriage counseling and I've done all that. I I know the ins and out of their life Right, like there's one guy Um, I I see he's been married like four years at three years It's a pretty little girl, right? He married this beautiful girl. Um, she stays at home They've had three kids already Right three kids. It's like what a beta male Yeah, right. Yeah, but you know Um, they're living a great life and my wife disciples his wife and they keep up with each other and I keep up with them And they're doing just really good and and so these guys say oh that can't happen. Oh, she's actually cheating on them They need her To cheat on it. That's what they need because if she's not cheating on them Then that means that that those relationships exist and the fact that they don't have it reflects somehow on their ability That's what you realize. They need these things to be true Um, it's not that they can't face the hard reality. I always hear that We're just telling people the bleak reality You know with a bleak reality. I got a bleak reality for you Uh, here's a bleak reality is I know a lot of men that are marrying beautiful women That don't have a huge notch count on either side and they're having kids and they're very happy And they're not beta at all and so the bleak reality is you suck Right, that's the bleak reality right, um, or or like your damage or like There's there's you have problems or you're in the wrong part of the country I don't know what to tell you but it's some of the failure in your life is your fault Right take responsibility for yourself manipulators Um will come in and flatter you and tell you that all the problems in your life are someone else's fault, right? Yeah Yeah, it's it's all women and that's the funny thing. It's like what you see in some of the anti-feminist groups is that For feminists, it's the patriarchy patriarchy is holding them back But for some of the anti-feminists, it's it's really the feminine imperative, right? It's like the matriarchy is holding them down Which is like really hard for me to wrap my mind around. I thought like I thought men were natural leaders and And and we're superior in this way and that way and yet what the women The women how the women get to control I don't I mean This is some of the stuff where I end up this to screen with some aspects of the mixtail group So those are those are some of my general thoughts. I just tell guys like look if who you're listening to Is is confirming all your biases and then you're giving them super chats like You're being played, you know what I mean like You you want to look for people that challenge you and move you to action If they're not moving you to action beyond buying their course and buying their book Which all have their places sometimes but seriously some of these guys are selling like a a 40 page pdf for 50 bucks I mean, what's wrong with you? Right? I mean, there are so many good books Well, and it's and it's a 40 page pdf that they plagiarized a hundred percent of almost always it is This is like this is uh email. They're all uh email content marketers that and you can even see the way they type and stuff Like they're all from that same school Yeah, and then they got into this space And they saw like wow look at the audience here how valuable it was because I I used to be in the um The reseller space. I ran a pretty successful, um amazon fba store before it all like took off and got crazy but um what I I uh Would see those courses out there And this those courses and these monastery courses are very similar very similar stuff very similar style and all that And these are just content marketers, you know, and so there's this there to here's here's something you learn in um internet marketing so basically there's a cycle between um Hard product and soft product right product soft product being that that's content related training courses, whatever And when something's in its death throws That's when a lot of that soft content comes out. So for example People that got in on uh fba early. I mean it was crazy how much money you can make it was nuts and how easy It was to make money Um by storing your product in amazon warehouses and amazon selling for it. It was like a nutty man And so then all the people that came in and made those millions uh decided they're going to create all this content to uh To like for people that want to get involved in it. That's when something started to cycle back down Uh, and then it'll it leads back to some new physical product and the cycles back up This is a cycle you see play out over and over and over again the internet. So right now I I would say We're watching guys run out all these masculinity courses And I I think that's telling us a little something about where the space is the space is in trouble uh, but it'll come out in some new new thing just like fba disappears and then Now people are doing their Shopify stores and Shopify disappears and they're doing this I think the manager will come out uh on the other side. I think the youtube a lot of the youtube Communities are kind of in a terminal Situation right now. I could be wrong, but that's how it comes across to me having been Involved in other aspects of the internet. So Hey, thanks for having me Absolutely, Michael. I really appreciate your time, man And uh, let's see you next week or another future episode, man. Fuck hell. Yeah. All right. Couple us guys Probably the best choice to worry is hell. Yeah, the pastor, whatever. He'll be fine. Sure DJ, uh, what do you miss me? You know, he had a bounce. So what do you got? All right, so, um I think I want to first and foremost, let me let me kind of respond to To what Michael said. So that's there. Um I agree with him on many points But I also think that The internet is a reflection of what is happening in the real world And we see this when you have major publications saying birth rate is down marriage rate is down Um people are now having less sex than they were a long time ago And I think that when it comes to a lot of these things The reality is is that what's happening here is that you're seeing people consuming Online content and it's scaring traditional conservatives. It's scaring religious conservatives because without families They can't build religious communities, right? And and and that's really that's a bad thing and and I can objectively say that is a bad thing But I think that the other side of this is is it what's happening is is it There's there's many people discovering migtail content and many of the people who oppose the migtail content per se They're actually teaching Migtail wisdom now. I want to say that this right here Not only is it isn't migtail wisdom much of this wisdom is found in in a bible, you know If you buy a good study bible, it's filled with practical advice on how to avoid manipulators on how to avoid unhealthy women On how to avoid unhealthy men, right? There's a lot of advice Salt and peppered throughout the bible that will actually teach you these things So it's not like any tribe of the manasphere has a monopoly on this knowledge You're going to find these types of truths in a variety of places the military the united states military used to teach men How to avoid Women who went out of their way to manipulate them and say look when you go to this country They're going to want to marry an american man They're going to say and do whatever they need to do and they're giving that red pill wisdom out And they've been doing this for 50 years. So it's again The migtail community doesn't necessarily have a monopoly on all this advice But what you're finding out is is that nobody wants to talk about The the realities of what's happening on the ground and what got us here So, you know, we can talk all we want about having families and Making stronger communities and doing all these things But until we address the real problems, which are the laws and this huge huge epidemic of feminized men, right We're not getting anywhere and you could and you could plant churches all over the country But as long as these pastors continue to lack the courage to Start pushing for legal reforms that harm the family and by the way, you can't have a family without a man And as long as you promote man-shaming and misandry Families don't grow and without families. You don't have communities whether they're secular communities or religious communities And and many of these pastors know this and I know that like, you know, I've spoken with Michael foster behind the scenes He knows this and he's he's actually doing things I think in many that many pastors are not and those things are extremely important But that said, you know, again, it's shaming men I don't think is is the way forward per se and I think that I want to chirp in here real briefly just interject. I agree with you in that Now there's some exceptions like Michael foster who's really savage pastor but yeah, the west in many ways is in a state of terminal decline And escaping that velocity to just everything, you know, going into a black hole and we're all fucked Is really difficult and it's not clear now we all have opinions on how to do that, but it's not clear Consensus wise how to do that because the stakes are so high Well, the problem of the fall around basically the problem But the problem that you have though is is that men can only take a certain amount of responsibility, right? So men can only be responsible for themselves, but they're not responsible for the fact that You know, president biden for example is giving out all this additional money to people and and smart people are going Okay, well, if i'm on unemployment and biden's giving me an extra 300 a week I'm now making more than I was making when I was full when I was gainfully employed So it's not that I'm lazy. It's that I'm making more money Sitting on my ass and playing video games and consuming youtube content than I would be working, right? In your ability to stop that as a man is limited you had voting, but obviously that I was taken away Correct and you could be as alpha as you want, but you can't change the dollars and cents of that particular top down policy It's the same thing is true when you have entrepreneurs and communities who have small and medium businesses that because of the lockdowns They've been destroyed So now you have this scenario where all the money that would go into small business Which by the way is the reason that that america's economy was so strong Was the innovation and the creation and the maintenance of small businesses All that money it goes up it goes to the big corporations the walmarts the amazons The multinationals and the elephant in the room is that they didn't have to shut down They could have started a civil war Their options were shit, but my point is but my point is this Men who run small businesses men who manage small businesses and these people and that's not their fault that the shutdown happened You know, you can't just go to these guys and go bro. You got to be more alpha, right? You can't alpha the government. Look at the guy who had the gym, okay? That guy's been to jail that guy's got like tens of millions of he's speaking at 21 convention I'm talking to him. He's done sure but my point is, you know, he's he's been to jail He's had his life destroyed and and all all because He was trying to out alpha the system And and it's not and he didn't do anything wrong. So we're clear, you know He he should be what we should all strive to be as far as been are concerned, but my point is is that This idea that we need to be Telling men that they're losers Because they're living in a community and in a society that number one it not only hates them number two It manipulates them and to be more effeminate and so therefore it undermines positive masculinity number three It's reframed positive masculinity is toxic masculinity and it finds all the and it's been happening for so long That these people just kind of they kind of dodge and weave and pivot In order to continue to discriminate against men now on the same token That doesn't mean that men need to have a victim complex. You still need to be self-reliant You still need to be independent both psychologically and emotionally as well as you know financially and socially But I think that when it comes to those things This is a two-tier system And I think that and and one of my biggest problems that I've had with the pua dating coach positive masculinity crowd in the hemisphere is that They can't look at the larger picture. It's all about and again, I think that you know, Noah earlier and michael hit this on the head and that is um You can't shame men because you want more money, right? That's what they're doing. They're shaming men They're doing that that whole Emotional black male or they're shaming men. They're intimidating men. They're shitting on men and you can't say look We're going to go ahead and shame men as a group But we're also going to try to improve your lives and you see this not only on the left You see it in the manasphere community, but you also see it in many Christian communities Oh just man up and get married bro And then all of a sudden they get divorced raped and their life is destroyed Their credit is destroyed. Their reputation is destroyed. They're blacklisted from their career and they're like, oh bro That's your fault Oh, okay Okay, I tell you the reason I the reason I don't buy into that lie Is because I know for myself and many other people is that like my second wife I made her wait five years before she got married. She was a card carrying republican when I met her She was a very very conservative woman When she walked out the door and abandoned me and our children She was a card carrying democrat and she was a hardcore leftist Okay, that shit doesn't happen in a vacuum when you're living in a community that fosters that washington state pewdie sound region Any left-wing stronghold a lot of men have the same story And so when you know, it's not necessarily just the male action But it's also the environment that you live in and so, you know A man is only going to have a certain amount of influence on his significant other But if she's going to go out and she's going to be in environments where they hate men And they denigrate men and all these other things sooner or later Just like these men who are groomed to be followers of manasphere content creators These women are being groomed as well Now that's not to say that these women are innocent or that they shouldn't be held responsible for their actions individually But what it does mean is this is that this is a two-fold system Women are being taken advantage of here just as well as men And it does just because you're a woman and you're a good christian woman Doesn't mean that you're immune from this sort of bullshit leftist indoctrination That is meant to not only destroy your family but the community that you live in now with that said Let me pivot back to your question. Which was about manipulation advice As far as how to deal with it. Well first and foremost, like I said, I need to reiterate this because I can't reiterate it enough If you get yourself a good study bible, it is filled With practical advice on how to deal with and how to avoid manipulators Secondly, when you're meeting a woman or even a man for that point Ask open-ended questions Get these people to talk about themselves get them to talk about their history Get them to talk about other relationships and I don't mean romantic relationships, but you know Values what you're trying to do is you're trying to baseline them and you're trying to get an idea of what their value systems are Many times what happens is is when relationship fails Um, and this this is true in both of my marriages and many divorces that I've seen Is that the values of the husband and the wife? They either change Or they were never the same to begin with or they got married for the wrong reasons I can tell you right now my first marriage Absolutely my fault. I married her for the wrong reasons. It wasn't a shotgun wedding. She wasn't pregnant when we got married But I still married her for the wrong reasons. We had different value systems that marriage failed Now as far as that is concerned The other thing is this watch how they treat others who can do nothing for them, right? So a lot of people are friendly. They're kind. They're considerate as long as you can do something for them Right? So they're nice to you because they want something from you, right? But watch how they treat people who could do nothing for them. They they don't they don't give them any social credit They don't have any money They don't you know, they can't be manipulated or or they don't have anything that this person sees of value If they treat those people well odds are you've got somebody around you who's reasonable whether they're male or female And then the other thing that you need to be careful about is the interview And what I mean by this is guys if you've done any dating These women sit down there and they ask you fucking 20 questions. Like it's a goddamn job interview, right? So I think a great way to handle that is to say, yeah, I think that's great. So let me ask you Have you ever been diagnosed with a mental disorder? Have you ever taken antidepressants? Okay for single women, especially women over 30. Let me tell you something You want you want to widen their ass up? That's a great way to do it Or or you could even say something as innocent as well. You know, what do you bring to the table? I've been saying this for years I was one of the first people in the manasphere to say that what do you bring to the table other than, you know $3 and 99 cents sex, right? See a lot of people think that migtail are They think that migtail are these guys who are basement dwellers who have no experience with women when the reality is this A lot of migtail guys have slept with women they've they've dated women the some some of us still do and The issue isn't the dating the issue isn't that they can't get laid the issue is they want a relationship And they can't bridge that gap for whatever reason whether it's their fault the woman's fault society's fault Regardless of what the situation is so but my point is Be aware of the interview because that's that's a huge issue because what happens is if they're interviewing you This is not a relationship now. It's a zero-sum game now. You're now. It's it's like a power Thing they try to do this in order to gain power so they can control you right from the get-go Well the questions I want to pause in this real quick Thoughts on it. I think when someone's asking you questions particularly a woman like that is probing you She's not only asking about you and that's where guys might get hung up on They may kind of get freeze up or whatever the situation may be for them It revealed the questions from her reveal what she values what she cares about For whatever reason right whatever the motivations are So the questions are actually revealing to her own thinking to what she's thinking about proceeding You know meeting up with you on a date or whatever as well as in the moment as well as in your immediate or long-term future You know, she's fixating the focusing on the sense Yeah, her questions tell you a lot about her. That's absolutely true Um, so we'll jump back into it. The other thing is do not allow yourself to be compartmentalized Oh, i'm going to my mom's this weekend. Great. When are we leaving? What? Great. When are we leaving right? You know, let's let's go to your mom's I want to meet your mom You know, or I want to go out this evening. Great. When are we leaving? You know Here's something else that's important too. Well, why is she even going anywhere without your permission first of all? Well, I'm talking about like it. I'm talking about like in that intermediate dating thing But I'll tell you what I think you have a good point there But the other side of that is married women do this shit too and here's something that nobody's going to tell you I'm going to tell you I've said this many times before and there's science now to prove this I said this three or four years ago Women who are on hormonal birth control are attracted to more effeminate men Than they are when they're not so you see this scenario where you're dating a woman and you're like wow this woman's amazing And you know, I'm a sensitive guy and blah blah blah and then you get married And then you have kids and she gets off the birth control, right? She gets pregnant. She gets off the birth control You have kids well her hormones change and what she's attracted to Changes and one of the most common refrains that you hear from a lot of these women going through divorces I just stopped loving him and I don't know why It's the hormonal birth control If you really want to know if a woman is truly like attracted to you And and you find out she's on hormonal birth control Have her get off of it for two months If your relationship survives Odds are she's still attracted to you if your relationship doesn't survive that tells you two things one She's attracted to something different naturally and two You know, you might be an effeminate man, right because the hormonal birth control is saying look So so you got to do things to work on your masculinity per se Um, but again going back to that compartmentalization You know, that's one of the things like these women they go out and they do like women's ladies night out A lot of these women when they do ladies night out, it's because they're ovulating And so they want to go out, you know, and they want to get taken but but regardless of that The other thing that you need to do in order to avoid Manipulation is you need to reconcile your relationship in the same way you would reconcile your bank account Or any kind of business thing that you're going to do. So, you know, is a relationship one-sided? Are you the only one who's investing? You know, are you the only one who's who's initiating what's going on because the reality is this as well The relationship ends when the investment stops and if it is not a reciprocal relationship Then you're being taken for a ride and the other side of this too. That's just as important in 2021 Women don't need men's money anymore. There are a lot of women out there that make a significant amount of money So, you know, yeah, maybe they bring a little bit of money to the table, but the other side of this is What do you again? It's that what do you bring to the table? You can't you know as a man you need to ask yourself too. What do you bring to the table as well? but that said The other thing that you need to consider is this as well Never put your woman on a pedestal Never lionize her and this goes to relationships as well because what happens is it creates blind spots And what I mean by that is is, you know, I talked about the red pill blind spot Where you get these guys out there and they're like, look, you know, you can trust me or this and this and that And I'm just like I look I don't give a shit if you trust me Verify what you do in your own time. I don't need your trust to tell you the truth My ethics don't require it. All I'm saying is is that if I say something on my youtube channel And and and you see that as valid and true great operate on that, but I don't have a monopoly over truth or knowledge I'm not the I'm not the truth police and I'm definitely not the thought police But if you lionize me and you treat me Is though I'm something that I'm not and because I'm just an average nobody behind a keyboard What that's going to do is that's going to allow me to manipulate you and it's going to allow me to groom you In a direction that I want and in many cases for a lot of these content creators It's about being pay pigs to the point of I want you to be my pay pig. I want you to hook me up. I want to be able to you know what I'm saying That's exactly I was I was tweeting that or calling on people that the other day They want these little pay pigs on youtube these little man of sphere pay pigs. Yeah Yeah, I mean don't give me and here's the thing like like Most these guys have no overhead. I mean, yeah, it would be great if people supported my content It would be great if if if people, you know connected to my subscribe star or bought my book or whatever But the reality is is that number one I don't need it because that's not necessarily why I'm here It's not it's not the main reason I'm here But you know if if my if my web hosting paid for itself or things like that I think those things are you know, that's you know, again I don't think no one should make money from the man of sphere But I think if your whole goal is to be a shill go play hide and go fuck yourself because nobody has time for snake oil Right. I can I can let me let me speak to this as an entrepreneur I've been an entrepreneur in the man of sphere for 15 years. It's our 15 year anniversary That's a really long period of time for any industry and any entrepreneur that I started that at 17 years old Is particularly remarkable. I think it's an objective fact that would be true of any young entrepreneur in any industry What I can say is that I'm one of the few man of sphere entrepreneurs That does sizable revenue and also has sizable expenses You were hitting the nail in the head that most of these guys bring in these pay peg super chats and whatever their Business model is and their ink their overhead is very low Typically their overhead is actually much more personal and I know this for a fact in some cases They're paying out heavy mortgages if they don't need broke onto stupid shit because the wife wrote them into a second house Uh, I should like that or they're paying off single moms that they used they formally wiped up They got divorced right by So they're paying on alimony and child support and all this garbage. That's actually where the expenses go They're actually facilitating the stupid historical decisions of somebody Rather than an entrepreneur like myself, you know, totally show or brag, but this is true. This is a fact Well, let me I spend a huge amount of money that we bring in on the company itself I spend as much as possible to reduce the taxes that we pay Right, but let me let me kind of let me kind of stop you there because you sit in a very unique position in the Manusphere and you sit in a place that no one else in the manusphere. I have ever met sits in and that is is that You are primarily A voice of the manusphere and you are an event promoter, right? You're not a dating coach You're not a pua coach. You're not trying to sell your online courses or anything like that You are an event promoter and what you're doing is you're bringing voices. Pardon me You're bringing online masculine voices together in real world settings and allowing people to meet them So they can judge them for themselves and that is a product that No one else offers everybody else that's doing this type of thing, you know, they're a dating coach They're by my by my stuff by my shit by my whatever, right? But but the reality is is that your primary source of income specifically Comes from event promotion and and enhancing the manusphere in that way. Yeah, it's a business You're honest about that But you're not necessarily spending a hundred percent of your time shilling yourself You're not making any money on the red man group and I know this because I've seen your books And and as far as the finances are concerned. So I know that's what I'm saying That's one of the reasons why I can support you because you're not part of the problem When it comes to a lot of the shilling that's happening or a lot of the grooming that's happening that effeminizes men And that brings me to my final point to bring this full circle When you discover that you're being taken advantage of when you discover that you have been lied to When you discover that someone's trying to manipulate you or they're trying to emotionally blackmail you The next thing you need to be aware of Is that the second that they know that you know? You need to expect massive blowback, especially if these people are absolute sociopaths dark triads Narcissist you're going to have you're going to experience full spectrum defamation Slander or there's people that are going to they're going to take facts out of context You know in dishonest fashion or they're going to take half truths or again, they're going to look at the lowest part of your life And then they're going to turn around and and pretend That's who you were the entirety of your life And I've had all this stuff happen to me just like you know, anthony has and frankly again If you don't sign my paycheck, you don't give me a grade and and you're not in bed You know giving me fallatio your opinion doesn't fucking matter So and every man needs to have that attitude because again, it's it's it's a what's in it for me attitude And that's not from a position of greed That's a combination of self-preservation And it's a it's it's self-confidence more importantly It's it's basically saying look, I know who I am I know what my value is not only in interpersonal relationships But in business in friendship and those types of things and I think that as long as you understand that thing I think that that creates A level of resilience that reinforces your ability to discern a lot of the manipulation and stuff that goes out Because again, it doesn't matter if the person's like look, you know by my ebook or and again You know myself at some level included if the if the ebook doesn't have value You know doesn't have value. It doesn't have original content. Don't buy it. Okay. My book has original content. But beyond that You know People are like, oh, you know donate to my my super chat or donate to this or donate to that or buy my dating course or You know donate to my church type of thing If these people where like if you go to church and their constant message is give me money They're no better than anybody in the manisphere, right? The worst shills of the manisphere and the same is true for you know A lot of these these non-profit social justice movements this you know This type of shilling and this type of con artistry Is is is just as common in conservative circles as it is in liberal circles So don't don't create an us versus them BLM by large mansion mansions kind of thing exactly, you know by large mansions give money for the for the You know for the birds or for the environment The reality is is that the NGO industrial complex Is doing the same thing that televangelists have been doing for decades And what they're doing is they're using their non-profits to personally enrich themselves at the expense of their followers And whatever cause that they have that's why you see you know You see these these televangelists with these huge houses and you know private jets and everything else And now we're seeing the NGO industrial complex do the same thing You like the the BLM founder. She's got four houses one of those houses has its own private airstrip and an air hangar. So again Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah So and and and and we could focus and be myopically focused on the BLM lady But the reality is she's one example of many. Who do you think she learned that from right? So you have to understand the shills and the con artists who who are trying to you know Turn your heart strings They're just as common in the conservative sphere as they are In the leftist sphere the left wing sphere. So so there nobody has a Nobody has a monopoly on this and I think that again when it comes to being a strong critically thinking discerning self-reliant man You need to surround yourself in the real world with people like that If the only self-reliant men you know are the voices you hear on the internet You're doing something wrong You have to be able to forge relationships in the real world personal relationships professional relationships family relationships these things are absolutely necessary and if you destroy these relationships or you destroy um The bridges that that forge these relationships You're going to destroy yourself in the end and you're going to be in the corner and there will be nobody there to help you Yeah, we'll put man I did want to revisit something we talked about this a few minutes ago We're talking about uh in you know this back and forth monologue or dualog. I guess you call it dualog Being an entrepreneur in the man's sphere and you mentioned that I was unique and I think that's correct and I appreciate that That's a correct assessment Because i'm not a dating coach because i'm not you know a pickup artist anymore or anything like that I don't even offer coaching services. I just build events and then Well being a pickup artist is different than being a pickup artist coach. That's that's my point there Oh true for sure for sure Uh what I wanted to say too though and you might find this interesting So even these business models that I think michael fosters referring to earlier like these cycles That you see in different industries including the man's sphere In the 2000s the way to make money the primary Method we called and negatively you'd call it a grift. It was like ebooks back then that was the thing ebook ebook ebook They had these ebooks and then you get bonus little ebooks with it Right, that was the thing and there was these huge sales pages these guys have paid to have written That still goes on some agree. We're talking like 20 50 100 page sales letters It was ridiculous when they paid these copywriters to write it was crazy rst was the worst so you had ebooks Then that eventually morphed into dvd set and audio sets right that would sell for like 800 bucks Similar to the courses we see today before online courses was a thing as it is now Um, so just then it became boot boot camps were going on. That was a big thing for a while That was like the product to sell the workshop boot camp the physical thing Right, right, especially like the real estate investor grift or the rich man poor man bs Yeah, they're they're all do the real estate real estate conferences are the snakiest sloppiest things in the world There it's much it's the only industry i would say is worse Is finite wealth creation stuff and real estate stuff Those events are unbelievably fucking toxic and they have upsell workshops to are ridiculous They have 20 000 private workshops where you learn the secrets of real estate selling And this is like an hour or two course in some some back room at hotel It's it's an unbelievable fucking con They even they have all kinds of you know, they go into the science of like they take they actually do this for real They turn the light they crank the lights up in a room to absolute peak maximum brightness They overlight a conference room because it boosts sales by like 2 like it's crazy It wakes people up a little bit this and that right So and they really and then they're selling this absolute bullshit right 15 20 000 workshop So we learn the magic tricks of real estate flipping all this bullshit shit You can learn on the internet for free and like fucking an hour or two Um what I wanted to say those so one of the things so the man is fear let's focus back on that You know there's ebooks. There's workshops. There's boot camps. There's dvds sets audio sets. There's video courses online courses There's gumroad, you know, shit like that. It's Thing after thing after thing after thing and there's even private groups now you pay monthly membership fee That's a current kind of common thing that's new that's going to fizzle away. I think in the coming months and years Uh, because it's like it's a cycle of business. It's a business cycle basically Well, I also think too that with these private groups that you know, there's that are pay walled, right? I think what's going to end up happening is is that when the people who are leading these groups when their followers find out that The the leaders Are not living the lifestyle. They're telling everybody else that they are or they're not following the rules That they're giving everybody else that hypocrisy is going to destroy these groups. That's right. That's right I think that will be a major issue. I agree and then on top of that people are just going to get bored The customers are going to get bored of the business model A lot of guys that are in this mindset right now, they're fans of whatever the thing is the course the group whatever They don't see beyond A few months or like a couple of years that they're actually going to get bored of the service model They're being delivered from a guy who's probably a fake anyway, but even if he's not even if he's a little more complicated It's uh, it's just it's a popular thing that's being done right now And it'll definitely be different in a couple years. That's why it's different now than it was five years ago courses in the hemisphere much more much less common five years ago than they are now in 2016 My point though is from my perspective if you notice what I do Is I do something different? I've been selling tickets to conventions for 14 15 years now And that's the bulk of what a revenue is that you're right. That's what I do And that's a very old school thing, right? That's beyond well beyond the hemisphere as a service model and a product And I'm really good at developing the conference tickets, but I got well and you're not yeah And you're not trying to upsell anything you're not trying to do a bait and switch You're not trying to to do these, you know by my course type of shit, right? No, that's that's how most conferences make their money is they sell you a ticket and then the back and they up They upsell super aggressively and a lot of people who are not in the industry don't understand that It's all an upsell model It's a huge scam to get you in the door and to qualify you as a potential customer They charge you two thousand to charge you ten thousand that's that's actually the model But here's the thing I wanted to get to is my even online We make money with videos through advertising 21 university and stuff like that 21 university for example is 20 bucks a month and I've been doing that since 2015 And I love doing that and if you notice that's very different from what everyone else does People do patreon. They do the courses. They do the ebooks I don't I like to avoid that cycle of history repeating itself in the hemisphere And do my own thing that I love to do which is create a premium video service That now even has iphone and android apps and tablet apps and stuff as well as the website That's our it's very useful in the age of cancel culture number one Number two, we can focus on what we're good at which is making awesome videos and delivering them in the best way possible So I don't care people have encouraged me for years to do a lot more courses and all this bullshit in books I just don't give a fuck. It's not what I'm good at. It's not what I love doing It's not central to the mission. Well, it's important these events and it's important for you to stay in your lane You know, you do what you're exactly and a lot of these people who are trying to get you to expand and everything else You know, some of those people you've had falling out with and it turns out that they wanted you to hopefully overextend yourself Exactly self-destruct Exactly exactly that can be malice behind it Even if it's well intention, they're not they're you know, people try to give me a business advice They've been an entrepreneur for like two or three years and it's like bro There's a reason I've existed for this long and that you are much newer You don't know what you're talking about. You're just come talking at your ass They get overconfident these things. But yeah, stay in your lane focus on what you're good at and don't overextend And that's this is a thing that most young entrepreneurs have zero fucking idea about zero I've seen this with events. I've seen it with republican events locally in Orlando I've seen that are falling apart Because they overextend and they don't they don't double down on what they're good at on what's important to them Well, it's core They have all these fantasies about blowing up and going viral like every other fucking idiot on the internet And they don't understand that that's exactly how you lose steam and you lose focus and you lose attention on what matters Well, I just what do I do? I just focus focus focus 21 convention 21 convention 21 convention 20 university 21 convention Over and over and over and over and over and over and rarely do I do I Divert from that except with something directly stemming from it like 22 convention for women Which was very successful as you saw last year Well, and it's it's it the reality is is that you know, anybody can be a flash in a pan anybody can have their 15 minutes of fame But it's about it's about maintaining what you do And it's about the slow burn You know, anybody can be successful for 15 minutes, but can you be successful for five years? Can you be successful for 10 years? You know about 15 years Are you are you a 60 year old man with no retirement living in a studio apartment trying to self-success porn? You know, or are you a 20 year old kid living in your parents basement trying to sell success porn? those things, you know, again, it's it's about what you do and it's about the uh, the success of of maintenance and longevity and the slow burn when you have that slow burn You know, you you basically stand the test of time and that's the advantage of the truth is the truth and ethics and um, you know, for threat communication all these things stand the test of time That's right. And as you know, ddj, we've talked about, uh, I think just privately maybe publicly a little bit I've had an enormous number of competitor Manusphere events that for the most part were just friendly, you know, auxiliary events doing their own thing There it's the list is really extensive. It's like 15 fucking events. Some of which are still ongoing I was just down at the war room summit the war room convention down in miami For example last weekend cobertate hosted that with his brother and they had about 50 guys show up from around the world And that's a cool thing and I have zero problem with that. I went there to go check it out to interview the founder and stuff There's also the icmi that you're familiar with probably that's where paul elam speaks janice fiemmengo Sean smith So I think I was invited to a couple of those at one point Yeah, and taryn's pop helped get that going back when they got canceled in like 2013. I think Paul elam was setting it up and then the hotel booted him out, you know, because of bomb threats and stuff But there's a lot of Manusphere events, uh, that i've seen come and go Most of them just fizzle out the man's rights one actually is one of the longer running ones now But a lot of the dating ones the dating conference cliff's list pui summit the real man conference the more an hacky summit You know the the man and demand conference in 2015 I mean, there's a huge number of Manusphere conventions and conferences in the graveyard now That were hot as shit in their time the real man conference when it first started had like 400 something Men show up to it is the biggest Manusphere event that's ever been held by far Even 21 convention peaked at like 230 is our highest we ever had 450 men or whatever showed up in Amsterdam in 2008. That's massive for a two day event That's that's big man. That's not like 10,000 or nothing, but that's a lot And uh, that's not even possible. I think today's Manusphere to get that many guys No, that would be incredibly difficult even if that was your like life goal But yeah, so it's it's uh slow and steady wins the race and that's why I've survived all these events is because They don't focus and they don't have the same vision and the same Determination and discipline to focus focus focus focus Which means like you do dj. You have to ignore people who don't matter and ignore opinions that don't matter If I don't fucking know you i'm not putting my dick in you I don't care about you know, I don't have a specific reason to care. Well, I know you i'm not putting my dick in you Regardless, sorry. Thanks. I appreciate that, you know I like my asshole dick free But uh, Yeah, yeah But it is but it's really about focusing on what you care about what you're good at staying in your lane After you pick your lane, I didn't just randomly pick it, you know, like I I just I made these decisions over time But that's how you survive as an entrepreneur And I think that has relation to being surviving as a man is not overextending yourself and focusing on too much Miscellaneous bullshit over time, you know, these guys like in the Manusphere. They focus on too much shit Like focus on what's important to you and what your uh problems are in the future Well, and I think the other side of this is too is what a lot of people forget is this You know, there's a lot of people out there that are working a full-time job But in this day and age where small businesses are failing if you can start a small business You're gold and I know a lot of guys who use a small business as their side hustle Maybe they're a mechanic during the day, right? They work on cars nine to five at the Ford dealership or something like that And then they say, you know what I'm going to build a garage in my house And I'm going to start repairing cars on the weekends and all that money goes in their pocket The same thing is true with you know with these people who are Electricians or you know, they they work in the trades They work for someone else maybe during the week But then they have a side hustle where they take that same skill and they open up a business doing it Or you know, maybe the husband is working in nine to five and the wife opens up a business that they both work together So there's a lot of opportunity now, especially with a lot of small businesses closing that if you can run a business with you Maybe one or two other people and you can create a small business You can create yourself a sustainable income, especially in in covid, you know There were a lot of millionaires that were created during the great depression between 1929 and 1939 And it was because people took advantage Of the opportunities and they built things from the ground up that some of these things are still resilient today And they started out as small businesses, you know, one-man operation types of scenarios So there's a lot of ways for men today To become entrepreneurs with very little money or very little financial investment And then you know, but they're but you have to be willing To to work seven days a week for a while, right? You have to be willing to work two jobs sometimes or things like that and again, but once you do that You have to stay in your lane, right? You have to know when to say no you have to know when to not overextend and you have to stay in your lane And you can't be greedy because if you provide a good product or you provide a good service The reality is the money takes care of itself Yeah, greed is the downfall of man. There's a reason the christians talk about it as a deli sin. I believe right seven deli sins Yeah, we see that in the monastery now man these super chat pay pigs and the the greedy men and the the sheep and Well, and the people very obvious, you know Yeah, the people like you whether it's migtail community or whether it's you know across the atmosphere The people that are the most vitriolic the people that are the you know the biggest backstabbers Those are the ones that are the most desperate, you know, they're trying to create this get rich quick get grift And and they think that oh, I'm just gonna go ahead and you know I'm gonna mooch off somebody else's thing and then I'm gonna go ahead and kick them straight under the bus because it's Tuesday And you know, that's different than somebody who's been around for a while Who's been a grifter the whole freaking time and nobody's caught on and then somebody wakes up one day and says, hey This guy's a grifter. That's that's a whole different scenario, right? So I think that when we look at this that's why it's important to to bring this full circle That's why it's important to know how to spot liars to know how to spot manipulators to know how to spot grifters Whether they're male or female, whether it's an intimate relationship or a professional relationship And whether it's somebody that you know or it's somebody that you like their content You know, what kind of person are they? What kind of you know, what kind of ethics do they have? What kind of values do they bring to the table and do they speak the uncomfortable truth? Knowing that there's going to be repercussions Or are they just providing fan service in an effort to keep their product up? Yeah, are they just saying, you know edgy stuff that's role playing as savage to a pander to people? Yeah, I've noticed that a lot it's But the average guy is just tuning into some youtube channel. It's hard to discern that but that's a real thing It's pandering through this fake savagery It's a guys who are hurt wounded and justifiably, you know under attack in the culture as a man and as a father and whatnot So yeah, it's complicated But I think we've done a good good job today kind of going over this content for the guys Waking up waking up the the dudes the men. Yeah Well and for anybody who hasn't check out michael fosters content check out no other boys content They take things from a a different perspective than I do They don't agree with everything I say They don't have to Because they offer a lot of value. So check them out Well, I'm gonna wrap up today's show we're almost the two hours exactly I appreciate you tuning in ddj and appreciate your patience getting the show started I'm gonna get a new I think I did a new adapter for my camera on like a more expensive streamer one I have a couple of these ones are like a hundred bucks, but I'm gonna buy like a nice fat golden one See how it goes But anyway, everybody check out ddj's youtube channel miss andry today. There's a link in the description And uh, he's also on twitter allows twitter accounts a bit longer, but find him on bit shoot actually be the best one Miss andry today. I'm the dude I'm on twitter at beach mussels and today's show has a episode 141 been sponsored again by 21 university Check it out on the app store on your iphone ipad or android device It's a free download with a free uh account and if you want a premium account, it's only 1990 not a month Or it's a free 30 day trial. It supports the red man group 21 convention 22 convention 21 studios everything like that And it's awesome. It's a good service and we own the vast majority of it So it's a lot more bulletproof. So to speak are durable Then youtube channels, which can be shadow banned throttled and of course deleted like our good friends to find malinu I appreciate you guys tuning in mean ddj are gonna hop off. We'll see you in the near future Uh bobby, thanks for hopping on today. Check out his book two on amazon the feminist lie Normally you would see a copy on my video here Excellent book one of the best in the manusphere by far. It's probably the make the mc tower The manusphere is bible on how shitty feminism is it's excellent piece of work artwork really So dj right on peace. All right. Take care guys