 and I felt like it was screening air. And some of you have been through this many times and some of you have never been through it. So what we do is we'll introduce ourselves and then we're just going to open it up. This is your day to tell us what you're thinking about, what you're concerned about, what you would like us to be addressing. Issues that we have. Sometimes there are more contentious issues do we have that affect municipalities and sometimes not. And for those of us who were at the lunch I think both Mara has talked about what municipalities do and are capable of and Mayor Werner talked about what a couple of very specific issues around these but we have a chair here that's Alice's new school. Don't take her school. No, no, take her school. And I will apologize. One of our committee members, Brian, the center call from Ronald, is right now at another committee presenting a bill. So he will be out there soon as he's done. So I'm just going to invite you and I chair Senate government operations. I represent the county. I'm Sarah Copeland-Hanses. I chair House government operations and I represent Fairleigh West, Fairleigh and Brad. I'm going to be playing on vice chair since I've got government operations. I represent Washington County. My name is Bruce Bray. I also serve on government operations and I serve on the House government operations. I represent Washington County. I'm a friend and I serve on the House government operations. I'm Bob Grishenbrad. I'm a federal officer. I'm Nishio Alson. I'm Al Colston. I represent New Scheme and I serve in the House government operations. I'm Nelson Broad Allergaum. I'm Thomas Wilford in Bennington County. I serve on the House government operations. I'm John Belouster. I work at Elton and I work on House government operations. Hi, I'm Andrew Rookie and I'm a state representative from Plotty representing the Women's Fourth District. Plotty was the most administrative women's senator of work. We're both constituents of each other. My name is John Hannon. I'm the vice chair of government operations in the House and I represent Hal Fax, William Hammond, and New County. Well, obviously, they seem to be the best of the last. My name is Rob Clare, I'm a retired townman. I sit on the House government operations. So, Sarah, I would just kind of facilitate this and this is your show. So, if you wouldn't point, you would have something to say. However, if you would identify who you are and where you're from and maybe what your role is. If you're a town manager, whether you're a kosher town clerk or whatever your role is, that would be helpful. So, let's take it away. Yes. Oh, and I apologize for the part that under matter came in. Alison Carson from Lutzer County, said to go off. Thank you, Senator. I'm Peter Rowell, I'm the town manager and final bro. I'm here today with two of our select board members, and we're here to thank the Senate Government Operations Committee for the work that you did last year bringing S-106 forward into this chamber and the passage of S-106 in last year's first part of the biennium. And we'd like to ask those of you who are on House Got Lobster, please hold hearings on S-106. It's the proposed pilot project for having just a handful of municipalities be allowed under very clearly specified limitations and under the supervision of the state to exercise some additional self-governance authority. For reasons that we'd like to make much more fully clear during hearings, we think this is really important and to do it in a way that is such a controlled experiment to see whether or not it will work well for the longer haul and serve of our communities and the wider state entrusts. We think it's important that the experiment be given an opportunity. There's experiences in other states that have shown that becoming more partners, I thought it was interesting to be a representative where we can say you're each other's constituents with you and the Senator. That's actually part of the underlying intention of this proposed S-106 which is the understanding that your constituents are our constituents and we serve the same people. We serve a subset of those but we serve them day in and day out week in and week out throughout the year addressing a variety of local needs and we think that those local needs need more the local officials need a little more room to have some creativity and be effective in addressing our local as opposed to state-wide. So there are others who will have something to say about that today and we'd really like the opportunity, please, to sit down with you and go through more substantively what's in the proposed legislation and why it's important and why we think it serves not just individual community entrusts but broader state entrusts as well. And one separate thing is on the same theme of local authority we appreciate that House GovOps has stood up for 2% local option tax on the marijuana legislation and we hope or cannabis legislation and we hope that as that continues on to final passage that you'll stand behind that position we understand that not all your colleagues feel the same way. We think that it's very important the bulk of the revenue will come to the state coffers. I think it's really important that that 2% local option be available to municipalities. Thank you. So I would love to just take a minute to update folks on what's happening with the cannabis bill because it has made its way through the Ways and Means Committee that has worked on the tax for the cannabis legislation. It's now waiting in House appropriations and then we'll come to the floor we expect as early as next week. So Ways and Means Committee did very deliberately leave in the proposal that there would be 2% local option for revenue to the municipalities just in recognition that there may be impacts to municipalities with a new industry that is coming out of the shadows shall we say and into legal existence and so House Ways and Means Committee did not agree that a 2% option on sales which would be just 2% of whatever the price is that folks are paying for cannabis was the right way to go. They have instead shifted to a model where the local cannabis commissions and as you have local liquor commissions you can have a local cannabis commission as well and that that local commission could assess a fee on the licensee for any kind of cannabis license and so we actually think when you compare the two possible ways of getting revenue to municipalities that the fee on all of the licensees that exist in your community might actually be a a better gauge of the impact could be you could have two growers or you could have 20 growers you could have one retail and no growers or you could have you know any different combination of cannabis licensees and that having a cut of those fees back to the municipality would be a better way to make sure that the impact to municipalities is recognized. We don't expect it's going to be a lot of revenue on the sale side and so that's why we think that maybe this this format of doing it through through a fee would be would be preferable. John is there anything that I missed on that or anything you'd like to clarify? Just want to clarify is that the local option tax will only be collected at the retail site so towns who've got a grower manufacturer or wholesale or you can get any option tax as a grower has kind of been drafted with this thing anyone who has a licensee or it's a cultivator manufacturer or wholesale or retail or retail or we'll get some of that licensing fee so this isn't shares around the revenue a little more than the local option tax would. I just want to follow up to see if there's any kind of idea of numbers around that because for instance the fees we charge for alcohol sales and things like that are very minimal economically small so I'm just wondering are we talking hefty fees and it's to be shared with the state like similar to the way our town courts collect the same fee that people who want to sell alcohol have to pay yearly we're talking $50 to $100 something like that. I think the only way to gauge that because the cannabis control board at the state level won't come into existence until after this bill passes and then they will determine what they think the licensing fee should be for the different tiers small, medium and large as well as for the different kinds of licenses that John listed but you could make an assumption that those fees might be in line with what other states created tax and regular models might be although I don't know that other states have done the tiered licensing that we're looking at but perhaps the largest license type might be roughly equivalent to what say Massachusetts or Oregon or California do it's really hard to say John any other insights that you have from sitting in with the Ways and Means Committee on that? No because that part when we were discussing the bill that was the amendment that they voted out just yesterday so I don't know much more in service and I will say that from the Senate's perspective it's the whole thing will be up for the Ways and Means Committee I can guarantee that and I don't know that I know that I went to was that a store in Browbro last weekend and it's called a Hemp and Cure and they have turned the kit that works there has no vested interest in what they might generate in terms of sales because he's an employee's on mark and he said that on a single day and every weekend day he probably turns down $4,000 in sales if they could sell so a 2% local options tax on that would be significantly more than anything you could put on an additional fee in addition to what the state is putting on as a fee so anyway that isn't there's a difference of opinion there that is yes I just want to point out I don't want to take up the whole time here but I just want to point out that all these other states that people point to Colorado, Illinois, Massachusetts they all have local coverable sales tax add-ons to their information well I don't know about the fees so that's another question but I do know they have healthy local taxes being applied to Canada sales thank you Jeanette we have a very nice example with liver sales because yes we have liver licenses but then we also have rooms and meals tax and much more revenue is raised from the room and meals tax and liver licenses are pivoted Christine Mott, Mayor of Wenuski I think additional to that why wouldn't we want amongst the way that these two local governing bodies occur we are already running a liquor control board shouldn't cannabis be treated in a similar fashion and I think there's also some alignment between this issue and the local government that we know on the ground what is good for our communities we would like to see some of this funding like from local auctions tax so that we can implement program for prevention with the youth we've seen that as an evidence-based model of prevention the more connected that you feel to their community the less likely they are to engage in substance abuse the more agency that we have to find out what are the ways to make our youth feel connected I think there's better prevention there than reading on a state level to do that for us my name is Jesse Baker I'm the city manager of Wenuski I'm here obviously with my Mayor my city council are Hal Colston you're also my state rep I'm going to forego the comment on the marijuana marketplace I think the Mayor spoke very appropriately for our community but I would like to go back to what my colleague from Brownboro brought up about S106 and encourage the House to take up that legislation and really consider this being the biennium where we do something innovative and progressive about local control Vermont's always been a statewide culture of innovation, local control and gumption this would allow us the opportunity to have a true experiment in a time delineated fashion to look at what giving your share of local elected officials slightly more power to dictate how local communities are governed would lead to innovation in the state and lead to unique communities meeting their needs in different ways I really encourage the House to take up that bill hold hearings as my colleague Peter said and welcome the opportunity to come back and talk to you about that more in depth and I also want to thank the Senate for initially moving it forward in the first year it was a huge step in the right direction and really I think for those of us who just love the municipal level and many people in the room have heard me talk about what a dork I am for local government but a real acknowledgement of what we are trying to do on the local level to be creative so thank you for that and please take it up with the committee's blessings I would actually like to turn it back to Mayor Locke she has a really interesting example from her experience and governance at the local level of how this kind of self-governance innovation could have improved our community in the last year with the blessing of the chair before we do that can I just give an example of a when we were doing the S106 about four years ago the town of Woodstock they had some parking meter money and they wanted to use their parking meter money for something else other than more parking meters and they weren't allowed to do that because we told them they had to use parking meter money for parking meters so if you did we actually did something which allowed them to use the money for it but that was an example of something so so facilities mined that we had to weigh in on that to allow a local government to do what they felt was best so I think I just needed it because I think that was one of the most insane samples I've seen probably a dessert so some more example when I ran for mayor actually last winter I was in the middle of a two year term on the city council and by our charter I actually had to step down in order to run for mayor I was running against another city councilor whose term was actually ending so he was able to fulfill his term and then run for the position of mayor it creates some disconnect when I ended up winning I had been then not serving for six weeks maybe more 12 so there's a disconnect in service there there's also a bit of an imbalance when you know you have two parties running one is still sitting at the table visibly and in the decision making process you know there were executive sessions that were important negotiations happening that then I had to be caught up to speed on when I came back into my seat as the mayor and this is another example of something that is a small administrative issue that would benefit our community to have more continuity in local leadership and to have to elevate that through the process all the way here for you folks to make that decision doesn't seem like a good use of time and inhibits the ability of us to you know respond to an issue like that that's a boy from the town was fairly and I also want to speak to that to that film because we experienced it with a population of 670 people there's not a lot of folks out here who can take on particularly that treasurer's role and the role has become so complex now you can't just pick somebody out of the air and say we'll learn it we needed a chart to change when our treasurer and town clerk retired to split the jobs better keeping those jobs separate anyways but the delay that happened in terms of trying to get through that but beyond that of getting that approval and truly having this landlord be the assistant treasurer working with NEMRIC a contractor coming in but the need for someone in town to understand our books and our budget all that stuff had to be doing that stuff on the ground they came in they built that sort of thing but that delay was just about broken just in terms of that sort of workflow it needs to move on more quickly wasn't anything strange we needed to have qualified treasurer serving our town thank you I would add one more small thought I would rather have you folks spending your time on bigger issues that we can't address in our community anything else a bit of a change first of all I'm Jeff Weinberg from Rutland Public Works Commissioner and I totally support and have for decades all the sentiments that you've just heard from that my peers hear on another issue House 782 and there's a senate corollary it's yeah it's the longest house you go yes there are a lot of moving parts in there and I think the mayor of Burlington did an excellent job at lunch today in terms of advocating for the active 50 exemption for designated downtowns which I wholeheartedly endorse as well I'd like to talk about a different feature in the bill and that is the exemption for municipal wastewater and water connection permits from state permitting I also formally served as commissioner of the department of modern conservation and that's where that permitting takes place so I've kind of had an opportunity to see this activity this program from both sides and honestly if the community has wastewater utility and they choose not to regulate and permit new connections then absolutely the state should do that if the community is not interested in doing that I don't know how many that would be but certainly the state somebody needs to do that there's no question about that but in my experience in the vast majority of cases it's just duplicative that the local utility and the municipality regulates and permits all new or expanded connections to their water and wastewater system and the state also regulates and permits those connections and I am at a loss to see in those circumstances where there already is that program that permitting that regulation at the local level what public benefit at all is derived from the state duplicating that this is precisely why I've developed one I believe it has to support the upwork is not what any of us are interested in absolutely and this is not the stat of the jurisdiction of these committees it is but maybe we can chat afterwards and we, I'm Vice-Chair I would who would love to have your testimony if you'd submit it I would be happy to do that your support of those sections would be great okay excellent thank you the municipal the committee that deals with municipal issues we could actually make a recommendation absolutely to the economic development and the water that's a great idea the more support would be in those sections for that I would just to complete the thought I would just say that A&R regulates our system and they regulate our discharges that go to the waters of the state they regulate our water system and obviously any contaminants monitoring testing and all of that we are subject to those permits it is our responsibility to make sure that we comply with all of those regulations in those permits we believe strongly that it is unnecessary for A&R to also regulate connections to those systems that they regulate that should be our responsibility that's essentially my point but I would be happy to provide that to the committee's jurisdiction Murphy the town manager for the town of Norwich generally supportive of the 106 issues that you've spoken about and again trying to identify a particular model that we can work with in I think the whole intent is really to cooperate and to collaborate with the legislature to figure things out exactly what we set by the U.S. to free up so to speak the time for you folks to be able to get to the bigger things and have us work out with our details whatever those things are just in that aspect of things but I don't know secondly I don't know if it's the appropriate jurisdiction we're a community that's impetition to have an honor warrant this year which it is the fair and impartial policing policy related language that actually matches when you speak what I have is that I'm sworn officer of the community and I have sworn police officers and as you've all heard there are issues with regard to whether there's breakage of federal law in terms of officers sworn to hold the Constitution not break the law and all that sort of stuff I'm going to use the term but I know you can't trump federal law but is there something that we need to have in Vermont that would grant immunity to our police officers who were in those particular situations again I don't know if this is jurisdictionally your particular committees but I've raised the question with Vermont League of Cities and Towns in terms of hey if something does happen does our insurance carrier cover an action by a police officer that may be considered to break federal law I think it could be probably one of those issues that goes could be in either here or in judiciary and I don't know do you have law enforcement in your committee we are our committee has jurisdiction over law enforcement and I also sit on judiciary so it could be either one and we're actually dealing with both do you have law enforcement committee? we do but this feels like it's something that sort of bridges the two committees and I'm not sure something's going to get I know we're real close to crossover it's the 20 year all that sort of stuff but I am concerned about you know a police officer their job is rooted in integrity and it's hard if something comes out and I know that Vermont at this point is protective of individuals across the state especially as the case precedent is starting to come out but I do think that it may be important to at least examine the side of things with regard to insurance coverage and at least immunity of those officers we have a we call the general law enforcement we've had hanging around for a number of years we keep resurrecting and adding things to it and taking things away but this might be something that we can talk to Karen about maybe putting it in on 24 yep thank you sorry I'll just add then everyone's been talking about S106 Luke's hearing mayor for the city of area you talk about other bills in other areas that's not your jurisdiction currently but S106 would actually affect a lot of those bills that you come forward because they're in that committee rather than something that we could have addressed ourselves last year for example we put forward a charter change approved by our constituents in order to beef up our housing order review evictions are a big thing it's a hot topic not one that we see much in the legislature but one that we were hoping that our local housing order review could have handled the voters did put it forward it went to a committee at the house and they said it was too broad too overreaching so they carved back the power of what we were looking to do so as it was passed that board still didn't really have the authority to do what they wanted to this town meeting day we actually have a charter change provision up there to just eliminate it all together if that body can't function the way that we needed to then what's the point of having so I just want you to realize too that we are trying to take something on that sometimes we're then shackled so take that into consideration it's not just what this body or this group does but it also affects the other committees and some of the decisions that they're doing is there anybody in here who actually opposes S106? no? you know and the way it's structured is I don't know how many different towns are here right now today in this room but there's probably more than 10 and the way the building structures I think it is it's a pile of 10 communities isn't it? I think it's 10 up to 10 right? so even if every community in the state agree with it it might not be applicable to them in the first round because it's but I just was curious if anybody actually opposes it I think what's important is that it's the opportunity to put some examples out there of how this could work well and how it could benefit other communities in the future Bill Frazier was a senior manager I wasn't going to speak but he posed that question I think the idea of 10 pilot, 10 town pilot put forth recognizing that you folks are reluctant to provide the authority to the communities I don't think that the municipalities of Rome would put a limit on we would all like to take the energy from that so if you see fit too wide that's good I was funny but I I think there's some meaning for the form here so I'm sure we would be for it but we are willing to try it on a pilot basis so that just that you all perceive might exist we're willing to put a box around it and see how it looks but I don't think on our side of the table we think that's necessary some of us see it less riskier than others I mean we must risk it giving you the authority to do it yeah we know that Allison has said we're often reluctant to give up power and that is through we have this conversation about the I wish I put a little plug in here for everybody to read Vermont papers if you haven't read it and about how governments in the 21st century could actually work and be better if you haven't read it it's a great read by Frank Brian and John Mulhollery and it isn't very often that I probably agree with John Mulhollery but in this case they are right on any other issues that you want to bring up that are bills that we're dealing with or not dealing with are issues that we shouldn't we don't have any elections this year I don't believe oh yes we do we have a non-citizens that's a that's a charter change that's not a general dilemma for a general do you have an election bill for campaign yes you sent it yes we did thank you yes we did but I don't think we're changing this year any elections routines or we try not to do that all the time to drive the tax will be crazy certainly not a election but are issues there concerning you or I mean we're just always curious on regional law enforcement ideas or regional public safety issues or or what we do with our emergency services which we John wants to pose a question so I mean the Department of Public Safety I think held a very large conference about dispatch and the new vision for dispatch which is basically if you preserve this model you know it would be great to hear your reaction from any of you about that proposal we just had the commissioner and yesterday talk about his modernization plan for the Department of Public Safety one of which is dispatch so it would be great to get input from you I know my time is already challenging to me there are concerns so my name is Jessie Baker I'm the city manager of the city of Louisiana I'm also on the board of directors for the Chinden County Public Safety Authority which is a new union municipal district that was stood up by our regional population centers to combine dispatch services to regionalize our dispatch services the board and my colleague from Wilson is also on that board with me as well that board is hard work looking into how we do this in our Chinden County communities the real challenge we are finding is with any innovation like this to stand up a new model that we believe will be a much improved service delivery model over time for our residents get public safety intervention to those who need it more quickly and will also be more cost effective it takes new dollars to become to become more cost effective so in the interest of standing up a new center we need to change radio systems we need to modernize technology we need a new server with a regional dispatch solution like this you can't just flip one switch off and flip another switch on you need some period of time where you're running parallel systems I think the challenge that we face in Vermont is our communities are paying for that service or not paying for it very very differently so in Winnowski the property taxpayers are paying for local dispatch as well as a PSAP through state property taxes or state taxes in other communities in Chinden County they are solely paying for that service through their state taxes not on the local level so you're seeing a need to increase the local level some kind of parity needs to be found across our community so I think a fee for service is a great solution and again if you really want to encourage innovation and encourage municipalities to get to their four regional approach I know historically there were some public safety equipment grants that were given out and that funding has unfolded over time looking at some small capital grant dollars to encourage that initial capital investment which is the one-time hurdle that is sometimes hard for communities to get to that future innovation would be very welcome thank you that's a great idea that's one of the things we're producing because I do think if you're switching the model there aren't going to be costs and I think we're headed then we need to think about how to incentivize that thank you two years or I don't know how many years ago our community we're concerned about law enforcement and the same kind of issues around law enforcement that some cities are, some places are paying to get local taxes and then some people are just relying on them state police to cover them and so we did a tour and one, I'm not going to do it all but one of the things that came out of that very clearly from every law enforcement person that we saw in most municipalities that if all law enforcement could be in the same retirement system in the state which is the way they do it in New Hampshire that you wouldn't have the problem where you have the town of Bells Falls trains send somebody to the academy and gets them all trained up and everything and then their retirement system isn't as good as the state police that they they jump to the state police is there have any of you talked about that at all and how it would impact your local community if every law enforcement certified law enforcement officer was in the same state retirement system I county johnson we contracted while sheriff's department and that's exactly the problem with the state because the sheriff's deputies are not allowed to be in the state retirement system we fork over the money and train them to send them down to the training give them a little bit of OJT on the row of the training and then they jump to the municipality or state police it's a cost that we're continually paying for is the training not to follow these other officers the other thing I would just say as far as the PSAP one law county has had its own work coming on 40-50 years now we're the first one in the state it is a page you go we all contribute to it it's a cradle to grave type of event PSAP they don't just tone out the fire fire with the police and then they disappear they're with them all the time until the end of the event and it's a problem that worked really well for us and it's something beyond the normal PSAP but we wouldn't treat it but yes as far as paying for the officers that go to other communities or the state police because of the retirement we're dealing with that exact problem right now we do have a bill specifically around sheriffs but yes I think we're under help yeah Jesse Baker again I promise this would be my last comment so when you see we are not experiencing that problem we certainly are sharing officers with our other county communities but they are all currently in the same retirement system but for Burlington everyone is in Beamer's which is the Vermont Municipal Employees Retirement System so we have not experienced that problem I would like on that topic though of retention of excellent officers and actually recruitment of officers the challenge we are seeing in Winooski and this may be specific to us is a real systematic challenge with the academy right now the police academy is an overnight residential academy that is I would argue is historic and militaristic in its training and when you see we have a real policy priority led by our city council to diversify our workforce and ensure that our officers reflect our community in Winooski that is very hard if you really want to lower that barrier to entry to more diverse candidates in public safety it's hard to do through a residential academy these are folks who may be caring for young children caring for multiple generations being the sole interpreter in their family for them to step out of their families for 12 or 14 weeks is a huge barrier to entry if there was a non residential academy that allowed them to get the training that is critical to them being able to carry out the mission but allowed them to go home at nights and on the weekends and take care of their families I think we would start to see the landscape of policing in Vermont look very different we've been having this fight for many years and we have been we have proposed looking at alternative models and we will keep pushing to look at alternative models and just for your information it is now 16 residential weeks there is a proposal from the academy to make it 20 so but we it is something that we constantly bring up and and hopefully we will have some aspect of that and we will work on that thank you I just want to make a comment and follow up with just shared I see this as an equity issue and I think if we look at it through that lens we will get some traction and make some changes so that we can increase our participation in public safety we are going to be talking about this right now making it into a health issue as well community health we are going to be talking about the discussed sort of the needs what we should be doing around the public safety the other thing we are looking at just that we are doing some work on is the our EMS systems are in I don't know if in your community they are in bad shape or not but we are losing first responders and our EMS systems are overtaxed and so we have a bill that we will actually be reviewing tomorrow I believe that we will try to address some of those issues and speaking of the academy one of the problems that we have with the EMS is that we have a fire academy and a police academy we have nothing for EMS people and in fact if you want to be an EMT if you take that program in Vermont cost $24,000 if you are lucky enough to live in Radlerow and you can take it and rebuild it to $7,000 but so we are looking at how we can be thought of as a system because that is how it is all over so Lucas Herring not directly with the police service but there are different positions that if you have nowhere else to go it is put on the police officer so we had grants through department corrections at one point those grants dried up so that was something that was then born on our municipality this year there was actually a bill for mental health specialists so we are looking to partner with Montpelier we have money in our budget hoping that that can come together but it is really that the officers are going from that 18 to 20 weeks some of it is to specify training that they need to have to deal with all of these issues and if there can be other positions that can deal with those that are not law enforcement one is that precepts them again of who is coming to help me but the other one is the right services being provided by the right professional to do that in the community and there are regional trainings that could happen around specialized just anecdotally I can support more along the lines of a rescue situation where you are dealing with it I am an individual that was suffering a heart attack I had a 911 system work perfectly in Vermont but they just batched somebody they didn't have enough staff this is up in Grand Isle so they didn't show up so they dispatched Platsburg New York they started across the ferry finally Grand Isle showed up so they canceled Platsburg the guys on Grand Isle didn't have the proper staff that they needed which is the person that put a port in nobody is an EMT they are all volunteers they read this batch to Platsburg and then and then what they decided to do was throw me into the South Arrow rescue my wife basically said should I go on the ambulance or not and they said that's okay we are just going down to the Grand Isle Fire Department because we have to wait for someone from North Arrow's department to come down and put the port in they drove me down in the ambulance one and a quarter miles away from my house to the fire station he sat in the parking lot waited for the individual to get off of his boat from fishing on Lake Champlain to come down to meet so they could put a port in for an IV then they started into Burlington and finally got to Burlington for a plectrum what normally takes me in a regular car driving normally you can get from my house to Burlington in 30 minutes took an hour and 20 minutes I'm still here today which is good but there was the point I'm getting at is that Colchester and Milton have EMTs full time on call all the time as part of their service there should have been a normal reaction to do an intermediary call to say we're going to throw the guy in the wagon we're going to drive down to Sam Barr State Park or whatever need us there so they can switch me up or throw the EMT in there but that to me is a classic example of well intentioned folks that don't have something didn't click at that point you know when it was a Sunday they didn't have all the stuff and that sort of stuff so for me it was just the perfect world the summary of the whole story is that the South Hero one couldn't make it fast enough up as well because Willie the donkey was loosed from the barn from share of bounds and he had to go after Willie to go back to the barn where they could get the ambulance up to my house Willie just passed away this past weekend but so the joke in the hospital was that an ass was more important than me that day that day hey I'm sorry for that but just to I would support that kind of stuff my estimate to go beyond that I think there's a level of regionalization of services instead of having three volunteer rescue services in the islands you have one rescue service and then you fill up your time cheap areas and all that and some of those posts would be used to do with the situation and the support for that through additional training would be helpful thanks for sharing that I'm glad you're here too I'm just curious in our area you would be never left it is there not that service there if there was it was not I mean there is connectivity between the hospital in the center hospital I'm the old guy so I still want to call Fletcher Allen, Mary Fletcher and all that but whatever that hospital is they're not having a better affiliation so they may have been able to do something but I think what it was was just a comedy of errors and just not doing a simple thing saying we need to get this guy in and let's start toward the hospital and call one of the other folks that had the EMTs in them and do that intervention I should know it's having been working on the CMS but isn't there a useful aid that goes into the clinics in at that moment one of the things so it's a real amazing story and the heart attack that I had was the widowmaker version so I'm really really praising them here and the ER staff was amazed that there wasn't something else that occurred and I'm not the individual who wants to go out and sue and all that sort of stuff because I have 30% scarring and I left ventricle and all that to this day but really what I want to do at some point is to basically walk into their rescue during one of their trains and say hey, this is what happened this should not happen again well I think we made some it wouldn't solve that problem but there are the an economy member example of the emergency there is a board of emergency medical people and the board did not have what we considered the appropriate representation from the different regions they were expected to represent huge regions we all changed that two years ago was it two years ago to change the makeup of the board so now there is more local input into that board so that hopefully should help with that coordination I don't know that it will but we heard a lot from the ambulance people in the first responders I know they need one so there is no fault they are also your fire departments and your police departments don't pay gas and diesel tax but all of your ambulance services they all do they all pay for gas and diesel tax is that because they are 501c3s or something no 501c3s pay gas tax but we are looking at it and senator matt says looking at it in his bill to see how we can do that because they are private ambulance companies too and they get the same I don't know they are also private ambulance companies that apparently are now setting up to just do hospital and hospital transports because they can make money on that but not deal with people like you like hospital and so we are trying to figure out how to have some regulation over them maybe require them to have a certificate and need the way hospitals do I don't know the clerk of the year is going to buy lunch and possibly pick it up anything else from fear community members or people well if things are courting it let us know and watch the schedule and testify when you can send information get a hold of carol and winn and I will say that carol and winn were really harder than we have up here and sometimes we disagree but mainly we try to relisten and they are very good representatives for you thank you