 HBCU Dodgers Radio Dodgers at the Dark are unfiltered and uncensored talk with young alumni of historically black colleges and universities Glad to be back with you and glad to have you listening with us on hbcdodgers.com or on series 142 HBCU joining us today Frat brother Eric by way of Winston Salem in UDC and or is the Morganite a hybrid of fam you and Morgan State So we want to kick this off with not a directly linked Conversation about HBCU's but something that HBCU's can certainly be a part of and that's the conversation about the R. Kelly Docuseries that came on lifetime last weekend surviving R. Kelly where you had just a Just a great number of women men all kinds of people offering evidence and anecdotes about the story of R. Kelly and his his predatory ways. I mean to put it very mildly with underage and sisters that are Far too young to be involved with somebody with his kind of power and influence. So I think it speaks to a larger conversation about not what The role and responsibility of women or parents or anything like that Clearly there's very little room for that. But what can we do specifically as brothers? With the information to make sure that not only are we holding ourselves accountable for the way that we treat women Sexual assault and and all those things aside just better treatment of sisters But more so what do you do to to hold each other other brothers accountable? For certain behavior, whether that be in the dorm in the classroom Walking in between facilities on campus. So we want to touch on that So did you guys happen to see it? So I didn't see it in its entirety But several sisters gave me the rundown on it. Um and it's like highlights and snippets of it and For me it was scary because I actually i'm a father to a new daughter. Um, and I couldn't imagine a life where Something like that happened to my child And i'm not in jail Um, you know for murder or attempted murder or something like that But what that was my immediate and most emotional take away from it. What was it for you guys? Um, it was creepy It was creepy for me. I mean I I didn't see the whole thing I saw the first two sections in its entirety. And then I saw pieces of the second and the third, you know, installments Um And it was just creepy I mean, he's a he's a creepy guy. I think it was Again, I'm I'm a little younger. So I don't I didn't live through aliyah Um, I didn't live through some of the other things but Born in the 90s and 12 playing all that. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was I was I knew of its impact Right. I mean I was you know, I'm born 92. So by the time it was like 2000s Like I remember when the tape came out like my barber showed it He closed all the blinds in the barber shop and closed the door and he put it on the bar I was like 12 So I remember that but just seeing it play out and all these people It kind of didn't seem he kind of seemed disingenuous all people who were around during this time period A lot of people worked with r kelly Um, so it was just creepy for me I refused to watch it. Mm-hmm I I've made the decision a long time ago that um Anything regarding that person I wasn't going to give any energy towards because my a lot of perspective He should be thrown under the jail if somebody's father hadn't killed him already um as You know as As divisive as a statement that could that should be. I mean, I'm just going to keep it 100 honest right now. Um Even you know in my own path of you know, not necessarily Knowing what a soul is you know at one point annoying what comes to that As rape or child rape or things like to that nature um, it's always been very I've always been very aware of that people people would have an older that we're dealing with younger people We're not doing so purely because of attraction, but they were doing so because of power and Even in high school. They never it always just made me feel like weird when girls would talk about how Their boyfriends were like 19 and we were like freshman this off more in high school. I was Right. Thanks. Like it would make me feel weird And I wasn't going to put it on the girls because I mean at that time, you know You know and that's the personal and I was just like for a while It's like oh, because of the girl's mature fast and the lawyers doing that's a whole other thing and um I came out. I said on I said on my Facebook page. I think it was like two days ago. I said To me, this is really since to me it seems as though Girls would show faster than boys was a statement that was created by creepy men to convince younger girls That their pedophilia was normal If I can if I can manipulate you by telling you that you're smarter than your age Then you will think it's perfectly fine for me to be 19 20 21 And to date you at the age of 13 14 or 15 You even have some places like the state of virginia where The age of consent could be 16 and that means it's her allows to date somebody who's 24 You know what's weird about that because So I mean because you all but the just just so we're totally correct the term is not pedophilia It's actually a fit double pilia, which is where you're protected one between 13 and 19 pedophilia is for actual kids Yeah, so I'm just I'm just saying so we're totally politically correct. Um, technically pedophilia is for like elementary age kids Once you hit like high school. It's a different term. I can't pronounce it but it's a different term. It's e p H e That's pretty great. This is hard that There we go, right I'm just saying because because I've been situated where I've I've come I've even a person with my friends like yo, she's kind of young like where We're getting a little old for you to be deal. I mean I got into it with somebody one time when I was in college I'm like this dude was in grad school. You're a freshman. Is this really a good look right now? I mean professors dealing with students is really a good look right now, but Um, yeah, just it's time to do something about it because the one thing that I once this this series came out The one thing that I thought about instantly was like, didn't we just go through this with roi moor When he was running for alabama senate and we were having the conversations about Really, this dude was at the mall when he was like 30 like talking talking to to girls in school and signing their yearbook And you thought that's their father to let him go Right like so obviously this is this is a thing. It ain't it ain't race-based This is a thing and so I think that you guys hit it right on the head. So Now comes the part where we have to we have to face accountability not just for ourselves where we're kind of Having this, you know, I admitted moment to quote our kelly song for anybody who's heard it But it's a moment where you say as you two mentioned Do you have homeboys that have been dating younger women? Do you have homeboys that are of the clique on campus where it's like, oh, you're a junior senior and let's go holler at freshman Um, look Let's expose some things for real for real Like let's let's get a little messy Anybody who's heard this that's went to college May or may not know of a term or a game of asking someone had you been slept And there's a game and usually it's older peak. It's older, you know older guys Or older girls it may be either one And it's a list of questions like mental games or things of that nature Where if somebody doesn't answer the question correctly, they have to tell a little article of clothing I think like these things happen like The amount the amount of gratuitous and I'm not I'm not going to hear like act all high and mighty I drank under age two, but it never was one of those things where I was out here purposely giving folks the song as drunk jungle juice So they can make so they can make different decisions So so they couldn't make logical decisions I mean Maybe it was me because I I was I was like older girls But see but even even that's a different thing. I mean and again even with the strong I mean, I think every campus a different culture. Right. I went to fam Anyone who's been to fam knows sometimes we call it alcohol at marijuana university And and it's just to keep things a total totally a buck. I mean they don't really they don't really have Juice party things like the way that when I was there Almost, you know, almost eight years ago, but when I was a freshman, you know It was a different time in tallahassee with literally going to random warehouses or the fairgrounds And it's just big drums of whatever That particular greek organization put into that drum to serve There was no idea there. I mean the concept the concept of consent wasn't even really spoken about Like it is today even eight years ago nine years ago So I think that is really important to add that nuance because I think things are changing for the better now Because things are far more out of the open than they may have may have been in the past on our campuses I think the the issue was that In many cases I mean even freshman moving right freshman moving when I was in school was a bunch of greeks And cut off t-shirts helping girls move And that was all I was always cringe worthy because you see those same girls at the insert greek organization's name house Later on that week. Well not to mention at the moving day the parents are there and they're like, yeah Brothers, I appreciate the help moving in Exactly, but they don't even realize that it's it's it's it's almost it's the setup. It's like scouting It's like it's like it's like going to a high school game And seeing Oh this guy's the best running back in the state. Who's his best friend? Let me get let me get let me get let me get in touch with his best friend. So they make the parents feel comfortable That makes the girls feel comfortable, which is why it becomes kind of an all all inclusive thing I'm not saying that I'm not saying that it's totally I can't put all the blame on anybody But we have a culture unfortunately A predatory behavior that we allow. Well, that that's what I'm hoping that we can kind of walk through here Because at this point it's like, yo, this this has to stop somebody Somebody somewhere has to say this is enough like this can't happen to our women anymore. Can't happen to brothers anymore Um, can't happen to anybody But one thing I will say or I'll ask you guys Is where do you how do you draw the line? If if you see something going down in public for example, like you said with the moving day You you can't really say anything to to that parent to that child or that that new student Or even that guy who's helping to move in because everybody in there Whether they know it or not is is Supporting that that that move Um as innocent as it may seem I gotta push back against that you can say something and you should say something Like at the expense of seeming like you That you just doing the most I'm sorry, but like it's a reality of the life we live in The amount of women who I'm friends with that I have known for at this point over a decade Who I'm just learning We went to school together and I had no idea that they were assaulted multiple times by people who were seemingly nice That's why people who seemingly meant well Like by people who could who don't even remember the name of the person that assaulted them But they all they can remember is the face and they can never forget that face Like I'm at the point right now like even as me as a guy when I see some of them Like if it looks if it's Chris worried that to me I can only imagine what looks like to her So I'm gonna be like hey yo you all right So do you run that risk of doing the most because for example, let's take it another level for example, you're at a party And a sister is chatting with a guy She appears to be younger than he or he appears to be You know kind of kind of out of her range Do you say something to her because that to me would seem like yo Your you could be stepping on her move. You could be stepping on her on her plan Do you do that? I mean, I don't I don't talk to him. I ask her There's people that we all that all of us know that I've been in a party with And it wasn't even like an age thing. It was just like a real life funny way Dude just being real pushy And I didn't even talk to him. I looked at her and I said you okay It's newly that simple the thing is that something has to be said one way or the next at the risk of looking like you're doing the most I There there are There are certain people there are certain men who I went to school with Who I know who may be socially cool. I people like that. I don't speak to Because of how they've dealt with certain women in my life. So I think that for me. I'm a bit more I'm a bit more principled. I wouldn't I'm not gonna say a tribute high horse. I'm not perfect But I think that there there has to be more of a conversation about that and unfortunately I think that Even on our campuses We create these positions of power Inadvertently be it someone joining a certain organization or if they're an sga or Their level in the band or whatever and I might even hip to what happens in bands or what happens In terms of athletics because I didn't I didn't do that deeply during my time in undergrad But I know that it exists And I think that that's part of the part of the issues at the levels of power But also I don't know if our schools are doing enough to really Support freshmen, especially freshman girls. So even though I always talk mess about Harvey I mean at least Hampton has some strategy in place where, you know, there's a curfew for freshmen up until homecoming Like so at least gives them time to be on campus for a couple of weeks before they're totally thrown out to the wolves or Spellman has a super curfew for everybody pretty much And I'm not saying they still don't have issues But at least there's some strategy in place Some of our more public campuses like the school that I went to are totally wide open and Morgan's even more of an extreme example because you got outside factors outside of just the college element You got regular people who just are in and around I mean that's part so I think in those instances it's more important to to see something and say something but also keeping in mind that Sometimes even when you say something the the women may not want to deal with I mean, they may think that they're in the right. They may think everything's okay um, and and that's difficult as well because Just because I think something may look incorrect I mean, they don't feel like things are right like you were saying or that they aren't in control Right, like you can easily you can step on the sister's group and it's like I mean, who are you T'Challa? Like I didn't I didn't call for the super friends. Like why are you here? But but but also it's like again What what may seem like power may not be power I mean I have tons of friends who when we were 1819 who were we were 15 16 were bragging about how they had older men wrapped around their fingers Who may have different opinions now that they've matured to see Really what manipulation can look like? so I think that it comes down to to maturity in that regard and also be very frank It's different for men and women as a man We're programmed to kind of go out and try to to get things Because it's not necessarily being thrown in our face on a consensus basis versus women with the exact opposite They have more of a chance to pick and choose what they want to entertain And that causes things to be a bit more jaded because There's not that level the set the level of consent is different between men and women Most men would probably tell you they don't have to consent. It's always yes Most women probably feel differently and again obviously our opinions change as we mature But when you're 18 You're not thinking straight. I look back and cringe on my decisions when I was 18 No, I'm not as extreme as some people But I look back like I believe probably shouldn't have done this shouldn't have done that and you get that maturity as you get older I think the issue is that my issue is with the people who are 25 26 Like I live near tsu if I'm driving over to the campus looking at the freshman walking out of a dorm Something's wrong with me But we don't see we don't view that in the wrong way in our community as well because I mean you think about some of our most pop the most popular relationship In black urban life is beyond saying jz. He's 12 years older than her He was 31 and she was 19 when they got together Like if you want to be real now, would you put that in that category? Definitely. Hmm interesting. It's it's funny. It's 12 years Look, I'm not defending them at all because because I It's weird to me dawg. I'm like my thing is like a yo you were you were You were getting sexually aroused when she was born like just from a biological time standpoint. You got to think about it that way Like that that's just it just looks weird to me. Like you can biologically be her father like He could literally be her father right And that's not like hate towards any of them. I'm a fan of opening but it still does look funny in the like How do you how do you use the campus and specifically the hbc environment to inspire? Better conversations and more substantive Views of this like do you think it's something that should be more Classroom or faculty oriented. Do you think it's something that's definitely more interstudent? How do you do it? I'm just I don't I don't I mean, I know that I know that faculty are a lot of people students all the night in their class I just like there has to be more of a conversation And again, I'm not saying that you can't be assaulted as a sophomore But my focus is really more on what are we doing at first semester freshman girl? Like how are we protecting that first semester freshman female student? How are we taking that first semester male student? And how are we a lot giving them an opportunity to really grow and mature within the campus? Because a lot of these incidents happening freshman week the first couple weeks homecoming I mean people who aren't even comfortable in their space yet and they're already dealing with these these kind of drastic Um, you know drastic events I think the first thing that has to be done is you have to address it with leadership It requires presidents Provost faculty people who are deans stuff has been saying this is what the expectation is is what we're going to do to keep people safe Um, be able having people having services to have people walk home walked home from from different events I think campuses need to be more proactive in holding their own on campus parties It be it in students something of that nature so they can have more of a control Because again allowing allowing the organizations to have their own events Somewhere off only creates more of an environment But I think that I think that schools are afraid because of the the alcohol thing because people are going to drink And the alcohol normally going to come so So here goes my thing. It's an issue. I think there needs to be like a come to jesus moment On a lot of our hvcu campuses surrounding this topic The coddling and excusing of black male behavior because we recognize how at-risk black men are in the general society And the reason that this is a topic is because Whether people realize it or not a lot of people are trying to defend the things that r kelly and other like regular Joe smol type black groups do Is because of the fear of what happens to black men in the system But I'm going to just say it right now if a black dude is violating black people. He deserves to be in jail Point blank period and that's a fact, but I think that you you have to Not you but I think we have to couch it like How do we separate the two like here's his his a brother behaving badly Versus a brother who needs to go to jail, but that's how it like a brother behaving like How are we defining behaving badly my thing like if you're doing like messed up things to like So you don't mess up things within our own community Why should we be saving you? What what what because because think about think about our hbc campuses think about we talk we talk about the ratios of Stools on hbc campuses all the time, right? I went I got the I was 17 years old when I stepped foot on one seven states campus I was 17 for an entire first semester I didn't get carted for nothing that that would mean 18 They needed a college id I could have did anything I wanted to for the most part as if I was an adult It was a different level of standard Because oh, well, you at least you a black dude in college. You're doing right Well, here's the so here's the question I would ask We need to have that conversation So let's let's break it down that way. Let's take it on alcohol since we talked about that If you catch somebody in their room and you got a dry campus and he has alcohol Should he be suspended or expelled because that you could say that that is an escalator to a possible crime Whether a misdemeanor like public drunkenness or you may sexually assault somebody But see but see but see but even with that I have friends who got kicked out for marijuana for instance, right? One fancy a kid off a patty with patty for for for marijuana I think that the whole dorm dry campus thing is is a bit archaic That's a respectability. I mean, I mean also and even even talking even talking about sexual assault I would be the first. I'm not I have no facts on that. Just my opinion. I think that our archaic Visitation policies are part of the problem. I feel like a lot of freshman women Look at older men because they can't even invite people to their own room Why would you why would you want to why would you want to date somebody who's a freshman like you living on campus? You can't even Spend private time together because again, most of our campuses don't have visitation policies And if they do Like until recently what's the sale of like there was a there was a freshman male dorm And there was like three freshman female dorms And There was a whole thing or surrounding about being a quote-unquote brown bunny if you went over the brown hall Oh, you were brown bunny like we had giblets. We had you if you were in gipson We had giblets. Mm-hmm, right. So it was like, oh, okay. So why would I best with you? You ain't even got your own room Real you in the freshman dorm, but if I go over to the upper-classman dorms So I can go off campus But here goes the thing Mind you we're not saying that that makes anybody 100% safer But you kind of control the situation you control who comes over Exactly. You just try to get out to the freshman dorm It's part of the culture about how people make choices and that's our school's are two hands off Yeah, right, but the policy is too. I mean we have again. We're very much like Don't do it in front of me. I didn't see it happen And that's more of my issue is that even I mean morgan tried to have students in the parties They always got shut down because of fights. I mean again, but again, I probably saw like two fights my entire time with fan Probably saw two fights a day and morgan Just a very different Tell him I really is he's Baltimore It's a very very very different culture on campus. I did not see a lot of fights at him I saw tons of fights with morgan. Yeah, but um, I think that part of it also has to be a conversation of I think the nickel drinking age should be should be 18 anyway I feel like we have these these kind of segwayed of you can't drink until you're 21 You can smoke at 18 you can can't rent a car till 25 I mean, it's we have too many it's too many different age variants for what truly makes you an adult in this country I don't I didn't really feel like an adult until I kicked up my parents health insurance and that was a lot of year ago so I think that there has to be some conversation from with administration being at private But especially at our big public schools your anties your fams your morgan's went to Salem those type of schools that have large amounts of students about what can the schools do to More control with things what goes on friends at gw for instance gw owns all of their greek houses And all of the greek organizations have to live within gw's confines and if they mess up they lose the house But there's so much control over it Nothing that goes on in that property everything that goes on in the greek house at gw Falls under the university's guidelines versus at a school I was up like fam Where the greek houses are a block away from the campus and it's private land whatever happens there Happens there and there's really no it's nothing that A school can do to protect students in that instance Now i'm not saying that rps youth can afford that type of policy But those type of things are more forward thinking to protect students versus what i've seen in my experience, which is Once your office campus once you're no longer a freshman for real We don't really care what happens to you and i think that's not that's not a good policy to have Now here goes another thing about this conversation that needs to take place too because A lot of administrators Are they're lying to themselves? A lot of a lot of administrators swear that think that certain acts don't take place on their campuses And we we really want to have that conversation too that there There are a lot of people who run certain colleges and universities that are not real about what goes down in the dorm rooms And who's keeping it a hundred right now and i'm sitting here thinking of myself like yo I mean yeah, it used to personally Well, I was hoping they wouldn't know what goes down. I mean unless it's unless it's crime. I mean unless it's assault Like they should know i'm gonna give i'm gonna give it i'm gonna give a direct story All right, and this is gonna throw y'all off too because this is the way the conversation has to go when you talk about sexual assault in general because Things are some things are better than some things are just a different thing you have to address What do you do when you find out that a roommate that that these that two people move into the same room Right, they're they're friends. They move into the same room So they're the same gender They're living in a two-bed room that has two beds in it their share bathroom all of that right What happens if you find out like like three and a half four months later That they're actually dating. Yeah, and they're using the room as though like they're playing house like an apartment Yeah, that's a thing and then you turn around and find out that one of them Has been abusing the other one for the last three and a half months since they've been sharing the same property Let's not forget. Let's not forget the same story Because because of how we look at gender we don't even assume that's a possibility Right, I mean but let's not let's not forget a family basketball player when I was there a family Women's basketball player while I was there was murdered By her girlfriend In what's considered like a pseudo off-campus. I think it was an ad on point a pseudo off-campus apartment And the school had a table PR response to it because he weren't even willing to go out and say This is the person's girlfriend immediately the initial report said it was a it was a dispute Over like club or something like that and obviously things came out that they were dating They were on the basketball team and the girl was stabbed and found dead in the bathtub But again, we don't want to talk this type of thing because we we haven't even we don't even address students like that on our campus There's a lot that you that you got to unpack with it. I mean because You know same-sex dating and relationships and abuse and and and crime or sexual assault that could take place in that It's just it's just as viable a conversation as the ones that are heterosexual But yeah, you it's it's difficult for from an administrative perspective It's one of those things like this isn't minority report like you can't prohibit but so much crime You gotta it's it's it's you know, we don't have precogs when around here. It's it's more What does what does the institution do to prepare for the inevitability of it? And what does the institution do in response to when like I said it inevitably happens Well for one all the private institutions that are ran by some faith-based group affiliate need to get real about reality That's first thing. Well, I mean and that's and that's a difficult thing too because a lot of students will give you feedback and say if you Start having conversations about sexuality about abuse about drug abuse about Same-sex relationships I'm just saying if you do that then some students will say I didn't sign up for this if you're at a certain campus Because some some students choose a school like oakwood Um, you know to say I don't I'm coming here because I don't want those conversations I have a I have a way of life that I live and I think that this school Facilitates that so some of the conversations while I know they exist I don't necessarily want to hear him here. And so if you if you introduce it, it's a it could be a problem But also you can't but you can't you can't have these public schools I'm not gonna use any names but some of these southern public schools that operate with administration Like they are publicly like they are private christian school Right and he was even situated while I had people on twitter last year where I wasn't defending the behavior But let's let's be real some of these southern public hbc us and we can think of a bunch of them Have administration who act like they are at oakwood or they are at spellmen or one of some of these more Traditionally christian schools because again Our public hbc us are not public in the same way that a lot of other ones are like frances morgan's a private school It's a it's a christian school at its base But it's a public school So even though it even though it's been public for over almost a hundred years at this point It still intrinsically has some of those things That make it more overly christian and conservative than a school That maybe some other public schools that are a bit more Open who've been public the entire time and again part of the conversation some people in the base like that Like we may not say it We may not walk around with the christian flag every day But there are some people who like even the undercurrent of that religious Conservatism in some elements of camp is culture not all of them, but this is where i'll challenge it Definitely because here goes where i'll challenge it Having these conversations If it's on the focus of morality from a standpoint of Taking advantage of other people from the the unfair use of power over another individual Those aren't Counteractive to anything of any faith right now. That's where you can't start you can't start it And that's we actually have to frame the conversation the point of the end of the day Is the fact that people need to know what their rights are as people doesn't have this necessarily have to say that Oh, well, we don't want to have these conversations because they violate people's faiths or what their beliefs are You can believe Period I think everybody at one at on their core if they have a moral compass that's pointing Whatever north is Can believe that people should not be taking advantage of other people Sexually monetarily anything on our college campuses If we if there was a way that one if any of us could sit down and have a conversation about how the amounts of HBC use women That were not able to finish their school right and the most the thing that that was the catalyst that set off Everything was because the fact that the police and they was able to feel safe on their college campus They were assaulted or raped Or taken advantage of if we could actually sit down and do that study, you know how remarkably Sad the numbers will be right And and I think that there's there's two trains running here. There's a there's an institutional obligation And then there's an individual obligation we have his brothers And so I would round out the conversation on the melding of the two. We all agree. I think that the school Should take a more active role in facilitating the conversation about this That they should be the institutions should say we need to have some regular meetings some regular training sessions some regular Convocations where it's just people talking about expectations in relationships among same sex and Different sex relationships and engagement and interaction and what can the university do To make sure everybody's having a good time, but it doesn't devolve into something where there's violence So there's degradation of people something like that. So that's where the institution is But from both sides the school and the student How do we deal with The notion when you have somebody in these conversations that totally And within their rights and respectively Disagrease for example one of the interesting things about the arkelly conversation was the amount of brothers who came out talking about these are fast women Everybody can have a you know a perspective No, but but see do you then what happens? What is the institution's role? What is the student role when there's somebody who takes a position that's generally unpopular Do you do you didn't get that person about it here too? Okay, so I mean I mean I mean Let me say that so part of it part of it is that but also again We have yet to address in our community in our culture in general regardless of black or white How we are comfortable with older men dating younger women And I think that's the basis of the arkelly thing is that there are people in this world men and women Who are comfortable with their daughters Or sons dealing with older people I mean I went to high school with the girl whose mother encouraged her to Not dating people anyone in college because she didn't want her dating anyone who was broke I mean and and that may that may sound extreme But at the time it made perfect sense to her and the girl was Younger dating somebody who was well over college age high school and her parents were totally comfortable with that And even with our Kelly dollars not forget The the 14-year-old girl who who was in question from the the case her father still works with our Kelly so I mean not not not not that I've all too deep into the story But I mean so there are people who are comfortable with that behavior So and parents who are comfortable with that behavior I mean I'm sure that there are there were people who maybe were freshmen sophomores date people who were in grad school Who whose parents were comfortable with those persons already established? Yeah, I mean maybe more mature. I mean so we have to we have to first address that and understanding that it's I have an issue with people like the J. D. Beyoncé case again when the age gap at any age Is pushing that pushing that that frame 12 13 14 years Because again, I think it sets a really bad example Not just to people in the nation, but he'll those others of what is accepting what isn't acceptable because when you have those type of Ranges, it's very hard to have an equal power dynamic between two people And even in terms of income, I mean we see these athletes all the time who are dating women who don't even have jobs Well, there's a really weird power dynamic and all of that is true But that's why I think that that how you frame the conversation is important because what we could wind up having is if you keep if you if we keep Framing these conversations and having them which we need to do and we don't find a way for students to Respectively disagree Then what you're gonna have is an hbcu version of that Alt-right thing All right, so you're gonna you're gonna but just hear me out because what's gonna wind up happening is Some brother is gonna say i'm sick of this pc crap I'm gonna start becoming more vocal with my views that y'all this is an attack on black men Could he be wrong? Absolutely. Does that mean that that that his position doesn't become stronger and that other people won't jump in it We we've seen it in our group and our group in our group chat I mean the more you the more the the crowd mobilizes against a Soul or a underrepresented voice The stronger they get the more they dig in so out of campuses and student bodies prevent that so So this is actually kind of interesting because it kind of does touch on the topic of like political correctness and freedom of speech, right? so I'm in i'm in school. I'm I'm in my master's program I'm getting a getting a degree in higher education and my very first research paper Uh that I did For about actually I did two different major research papers for the same on the same topic Uh focused on the freedom of speech political correctness and ethics behind the unc silent sam statue Mm-hmm And the reason I did it was because I wanted to know what is the university's responsibility? in in or in the university's responsibility To give a space for people who have freedom of speech Even when the things that people are saying are morally reprehensible Which is the same thing in this situation, right? Um, now now let's wait a minute before you go on We got to be careful with the thing about morally reprehensible because there's the silent sam thing You could say well those are symbols of that's hate speech in some respects But if somebody says The girls that were mentioned when r kelly were fast Could you classify them as one in the same? No, you wouldn't know why you know because because what r kelly did was a crime. That was legally a crime as a criminal act I give you if you want to if you want to die on the hill of saying that it wasn't morally reprehensible for a Grown man to be picking up girls from high school have at it. I mean you still look funny in the You look crazy, right? crazy in the light But the the college the campus has to has to facilitate if you're gonna in other words If we agree that the thing that that is going to help this along the best is to have more conversations That is bound to come up somebody's gonna stand up in the auditorium and say Well, I just think that those girls were fast. He gets booed. He gets shouted down He gets shouted down more when they walk out of the auditorium He gets shouted down more when he's walking to class that week And then what? No, no, no, but see here's the thing though So based upon everything that I found you can't silence people You have to give you have to give a space for people to sound stupid honestly. That's really what it is because Because when people sound stupid like that publicly It also creates the conversations and when you create the conversations Whether they whether they hear it or not somebody else is going to hear it and recognize like oh I used to think this way and that was wrong because of this that in the third But eric, what do you do when it's not a man making this statement? And that's what I've been seeing more online anything else. Look, what do you know? What do you say to women who are calling other women? Out for these things. I think that's the issue. Like it's very easy for us as men to say this man is dumb This man is wrong. Let's hold him accountable. How do how do you get in today? I mean These stereotypes these these things about being fast or whatever else they're not they are perpetuated by men and reinforced by women, of course they are because because and that and that's where it gets messy Yeah, because when because a lot of women are gatekeepers of both patriarchal and heteronormative norms We know this it's not it's not a this is not look at look at Trump We know this factually, but the thing is is that At some point and I've been and I would say myself. I've been accused of this all the time There's been plenty of times where I've heard women Like regurgitate things that they were socialized to believe that were okay Based upon things that were just patriarchal, misogynistic Things that kind of try to separate themselves from other types of girls Because somebody talked to them that oh, well, I'm a woman. That's not that they're not women. They're whatever And a lot is reinforced by by religion I mean there's a there's a girl I went with the fam with who has this whole campaign on her virginity And she puts out a lot of judgmental very shameful sounding things about other women who aren't virgins before they get married But again, but here go the thing though at the risk of the risk of being offensive Sometimes you just got to speak the truth to certain things I'm and that's really where I'm getting down to it with a lot of this like You like okay, for instance, you want to say somebody's fast And I'm like, all right So we're all the women in your family Had the had the children or your your cousins or this and the third while they were married But even then you have to but I'm saying you have to ask the questions to make people look at themselves Perhaps I mean I'm sorry. I I I mean you cut you off here go ahead No, I'm gonna say in a very general sense like at the end of the day like Even as men because somebody's gonna sit because any because nowadays because of the way that people Have learned what feminism was on twitter even though that's not really what feminism is They think that anytime that you are a man That you happen to speak the truth about something even if you're supporting feminism If you say it to a woman apparently now you're mansplaining Which is not the case But that's a whole different copy and that and that's what I was going to say These are it goes into so many different directions But at the end of the day, you know The regardless of what the backlash has to be when you have a moral compass of what is and what is not okay You have to speak the truth regardless of what comes out of it What our institutions need to have that responsibility not to have I have to have an opinion on one side of the next speak to facts Speak to what the actual truth of a situation actually is If you stay with the facts that can actually be credibly found and supported People who argue against you all they want to they got to come with facts and that's what it comes down to But at the end of the day our schools have to have the gusto To to take that stand to be like well you feel that way and this is how you feel But the facts are this that and the third well even then you got to be careful with that because somebody could say Well, the fact is our kelly's never been convicted The fact is that majority people that have been that have been assault people have been assaulted Their assaulters will never be convicted exactly and see that it always goes back to some facts one way or the next And that's why I think that the institutions like in light of this story Especially because school is getting there to start back up in a couple weeks That that could be one of the first things that the greek organizations the sga A lot of the the different clubs even the sports teams Should just start saying though, let's let's facilitate some conversations about this and use the archelly story To have a better understanding or time to have some real talk about how do brothers and sisters get along on campus What do what what do brothers and sisters think about each other? How how much or how little do we trust each other? With our bodies with our perspectives. I mean because at this point it's like It's like warfare and people are are unwitting soldiers in it And then you see a story like this and it's it spawns so much passion and reaction That you don't even get down to the nuts and bolts of why do we do what we do? and so, you know, it's it's It's a good thing. It's a it's a frightening thing Like you said or it's like that that that series was frightening. Um to think that that a human being can do that to other human beings um, but Hopefully if there if if there is something positive to take out of it is that it starts with men being unafraid to say There's a problem And I can do better making sure that I and other cats that I know aren't contributing to that problem And asking of the schools Can you help us facilitate this? So we can break it down part by part so we can talk about You know respectability in the bedroom. So we can talk about Same-sex engagement and and and violence and domestic abuse and stuff. So we can talk about patriarchy so we can talk about class so we can talk about You know geography I date I date people all campus because they got their own apartment Um and make that part of the conversation about policy Um, because what we're doing at this point It is it's simply not working. It's simply not working and for hbc's particularly Where there are issues of rape and assault and and abuse and all that um, but in far Less number at least comparatively to to bigger pwy's with 30 000 plus students Somebody got to take the lead And it can't always be sisters who are in the position of trying to survive through a trauma Honestly speaking i'm i'm a little upset regarding hbc use though because this conversation shouldn't have happened just now It should have really been started when fort valley state came through with that That's and we haven't even talked about And we haven't don't even get me I got so many I got so many things to say i'm gonna tell y'all offline So we're gonna wrap up this conversation now, uh before we before we end in twine two totally different stories Um, but brothers, I I appreciate it. Um, you know, and it's something that I hope that on dodgers have to dart we can continue Uh To do um and certainly next time with sisters as a part of it But I felt it important that that brothers and brothers only just said hey, let's Let's get some real insight out that we have about this And hopefully the people would see that we were coming from Um, you know a genuine and caring place of trying to get ourselves and trying to get others better So I appreciate you guys boldness for doing it. Um, thank you guys all for listening today Again, check us out on hbcdodgers.com on serious 142 hbcu radio. This is dodgers after dark. We'll see you next time. Peace