 Welcome Church Family to Moments with Pastor David and Marie. We're so excited to be here with you guys and excited that we're back in church. And so I want to say welcome to Pastor and Marie. Thank you John. How are you guys doing? We're good. Good. It's good to be back. Wasn't it great to be back? It is. It is. Such a blessing to see our our Church Family on Sunday. I didn't know to expect Sunday, but that worship was great. And then the teaching, you know, the teaching was on point. And that's something I, well, let me ask you this before we jump into that. So tell me, tell the church or explain to church, how does it feel for you, both of you guys to be back? Well, we were, we were not able to have church services for 10 weeks. And that's the longest that I've gone that I can remember that I haven't had a Bible study. Even prior to becoming a pastor here or an assistant pastor in the other church I used to serve in, I began teaching in around September of 1973. And from that point all the way to where we're at now, the longest I ever took off was three months. And that was when I was, I was in Europe for three months. And excuse me. So for me as a pastor teacher, especially pastoring this church, it was difficult. It was difficult to be gone for 10 weeks. I was concerned for our church. Not that they aren't grounded in the word because the good portion are, but because the scripture says that we're not to forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is. And so, you know, because we are a one another entity, the church, I was concerned because we need each other. And so it was difficult. And Marie and I were able to get to the point where we simply just knew that the Lord by His Spirit is going to lead us. We're going to regather. We'll assemble once again. And that's what happened this last Sunday. And a good portion of the church is still not with us. But I do know just by keeping tabs on them through various means that that many of them are with us online. And as they're getting the word and when they have a sense of peace and ability, hopefully they'll be once again with us in live services. And so from that perspective, I'm very, very happy to be back. Very happy. I remember the times when this whole quarantine first started. We, you would come on Sundays, you and Marie would come on Sundays. And it would just be a couple of guys out there. I think there was yourself, myself, Victor, I think Derek was there. Just a couple of guys. And I remember thinking, wow, what's it going to look like when we come back? It just seemed such a long time ago. And now that we're in the process of opening and have opened the services, it was just great to be with church family. It is. And it was just the worship together was amazing. And you know, Pastor, something I was discussing with Livy, for those who don't know Livy is my wife. You know, your teachings have been on point. And you've been like, my wife would say, Pastor's on fire today. What's changed? I think the sense of what is taking place in our society has given me a greater urgency. I also believe that based on the fact that I could not see who I was speaking to, I couldn't interrelate with them in a conversational way, which eliminated stories and illustrations and humor. And it just went down, just kind of boiled down to the essentials of what I wanted to teach and the exhortation that is my primary gift. So that's why it would sense that it was a little more direct and on point in that way. Now that we're back together again, I don't want to lose that because I really feel that that was something very valuable. The church benefited from that. And my humor sometimes can get the best of me because I like to tease with my church. That's my personality. But I have to be careful that I remain focused. And especially right now in the conditions that we find ourselves in, in our nation, you know, I think it's a sober, sober time. And I have to try and remain more sober minded as I teach. And bring the word in such a way that is encouraging and instructive. And I would say that that's part of what it was. Yeah, this last Sunday you were speaking. Actually, it was last night, Wednesday night, as you see that this will be, for those who were there Wednesday night, we were speaking about, you know, taking for granted our relationship with Christ at times, even as we're growing up in the church. So that really spoke to me kind of to a point where I had to examine my heart even now. What are some of those things that I take for granted? And so just that point was just like, wow, that really spoke to me. And we kind of get the staff kind of got spoiled though, because we were able to be, well, we're still able to come. But we were there for you with you during that time where we were just, when you're recording on Tuesdays and Thursdays. And it's almost like we have Pastor David to ourselves. And we would, you know, we would go there. But it's good to be back and to be able to be with the church. And so, well, you know, you guys, I wanted to speak a little bit on ministry and marriage. And we had a conversation not too long ago, where we were talking about the dangers that can come about when somebody has this desire to serve, who are married and maybe have young children, or who are married and have older children. This desire to have such a strong desire to serve, that it really takes away from marriage, family and children. And I would like to see, what would you both tell that person, the one that's so excited to serve, wants to be at church all the time, and who is married and have young children? Well, there's a lot that I could share about that, obviously, because Marie and I went through that ourselves. You know, and so, I like zeal. I like the idea that somebody has a desire to serve God with all of their heart. And even as Paul said in 1 Corinthians, he made it clear he said that those who are married should be as if they are not. For the time is short. So there needs to be a sense of the desperation of the hour, and people need to have heavenly priorities, kingdom priorities, and all of that. But seeing that you are married, he also went on to say that someone who's married has a lot of concerns, you know, because you do. You're concerned for how you may please your wife. You're concerned for how you are raising your children, and you're concerned for things that are domestic. And so, to juggle those things, to find a place where you're able to do both, you know, serving God in your fellowship, and serving your family to do both well, that's a difficult task. Because you want to do things by putting your hand to the plow, going straight, doing it with all of your might, and doing it well. At the same time, there are demands your family has that, you know, things that you will never duplicate. You'll never be able to be there for your child's first birthday again, or second birthday again. You know, it comes one time in a lifetime, right? And that's where the juggling comes in, where should I be at this time? I have something to do at church, but I also have something to do with my family. So that's a very difficult thing. So for me as a pastor, and you know this, I have an inclination towards wanting my staff to be fully committed to the task at hand. And I would like them to trust me enough to know that I want to help to protect their family. So I will not necessarily ask you or somebody else to do something if it's going to infringe on your time with your child or your wife. The only time I want to encourage you to do certain things will be during regular church hours, or whatever, but the things that come after that, you know, oh, I'm going to go do a breakfast, so we have a conference, or I'm going to travel to another place for a while. Those are things I'm very restrictive of with my staff now, because I don't want to take you or them from their families, you know, and so for Marie and me, we made our choices, you know, and I did my best to be there for my kids as much as I could in their lifetime. I don't think any of them would complain that I wasn't there enough for them, but there were times when I wish I would have been there, you know, times when David played in a football game and I wasn't able to be there to watch him, the first time he actually was able to suit up and get in a game. I'd gone to every game and this one game, kids he hadn't played, he was just a young guy that weren't playing him, the first game that he ever played in, I wasn't there, because I took Marie for a weekend to San Luis Obispo and he called me up and he was only 14 and he cried on the phone and he said, Dad, I played and you weren't there. See, so I tried to be there for everything I could, but I wasn't always able to be there, so I'm aware of that and so I try to be careful with my staff, with you and others who have younger children. Like, you know, I've said this to you, your baby's going to be your baby for just so long and then one day, well, the little girl's going to walk in and she's going to say, Daddy, I met the guy that I really like or the little boy's going to walk in and say, Daddy, I met the guy, I mean, I met the girl that I really like, you won't say the guy. But I found the one that I care about, you know, that's going to happen and I don't want to take from you or any of the other staff those moments, but sometimes they are voluntarily given up because you see the greater need and that's what I see. I see sometimes now even more so now than before, the greater need and the greater need very often is making sure that the gospel goes out, that people are cared for and that we're that we're honorable before the Lord. So it's a matter of learning to juggle priorities. Sometimes your family comes first, always God is first, but sometimes your family comes before the church needs and that's where I think good training and trusting comes in as a pastor. I try to train my staff, my key staff personnel to be able to carry the load to share it so that I can say I'm going to be in Israel for two weeks and I don't have any concern that this church is operating properly because it is, you know, or I'm going to be gone on a Sunday because I'll be over here or over there and I'm not concerned that things will fall apart, you know, because they don't. The church belongs to Christ, but I have responsibility to develop organization to make things go as smoothly as possible. That's an administrative thing that I'm supposed to do and I'm very careful with those things as you know because I believe that the larger the church, the more things can go wrong and so you have to be aware of all of those things and that's where my training of you guys has come in over time to impart to you that which was imparted to me so that you're able to carry that load if I'm not here, the other guys are able to do that and that's how it works. Marie does the same kind of thing with her women's ministry. And long ago I remember serving while he was teaching and I would be in with the babies, you know, or the children, any children that would come to the study and it was great training. It's great training and it's great training for us women to get involved in helping out in the church. It was a blessing, it was a blessing and Dave and I even ministered together too and the children's ministry as well. Yeah, we did, yeah, we did. As well, you know, and this was before our church, you know, part of it was before we began our church because, you know, how are we going to rise up and know what these children need or the ministry is the need of if we're not being in there and getting our hands in there, you know, and being with these children and loving them and encouraging them in the things of the Lord. So that was important. And also another thing that I felt that we also would have young people over, they were in, they were high schoolers or at the end of high school and it took a lot of ministry but it was very fruitful. I feel that we had a very fruitful time of ministering to these young people who had come to the church and Dave gave them studies and we spent time with them and we saw them have their baby, get married and have babies and it truly was a joy for us to be involved with them. And on the other side of that, when you serve together, there's almost this embedded safeguard in the marriage because you're serving alongside with one another, serving the Lord. And there can be this, as we mentioned last week, we're talking about communication if you're in the word together or praying together and Pastor mentioned serving together, then there's fruit in the marriage and so that's also a benefit of serving together. You know what happened, John, is when our church began and it started growing, I started seeing the need and sometimes receiving opportunities to step out of the four walls of our church to go to some other place and to minister or to learn. And I began to pray and Marie and I, we had our small children, they were small. And I began to pray because I felt that the horizons were a lot larger than just the four walls of the church. I needed to step out and do something and I was given the opportunity and invitation to go to China to smuggle Bibles. Wow. And so I told Marie that. I said, you know, I've been given the opportunity to go to China and she said, oh, and I knew she was, you know, resistant to the idea because it's an offense that you can be arrested for at that time, probably still is. And, you know, and then we had small babies, I forget if we had three. We had three babies at the time when we were born. How old were they, Pastor? Well, Anna would, Anna, this would have been 35 years ago, so about 35 years ago. So they were all small. My daughter, Corinne, would have been around seven and my youngest would have been a year or two, right in that they were small. And so, you know, so I had to think about that. And so I told her, but, you know, I'm thinking, perhaps the Lord is saying to do this. And it wasn't like I was real anxious to do so. Oh, I have to, it was more like a sense that I should do this. And Marie went to a pastor's wife's conference and she came home and Sandy McIntosh had shared in one of her, one of the sessions. And she said, whatever God calls your husband to, you need to support that. And Marie came home. I still remember the conversation where she walked in and I said, how was your conference? And she began to share and she said, the Lord spoke to me through Sandy and I am to set you free to go and do it. He called you to do. Because I was hesitant. She didn't want me to go. And I'm one of these husbands that I want to hear the Lord's voice, not just in my own heart. I want it, I want it seconded by my wife because she's part of my ministry. And if God's not speaking to her, then I will wait till he does. I don't just go out and tell her, he told me to do this and you're going to follow. I don't do that. I will say to her, and I've been doing it for many years, I'll say, this is what the Spirit seems to be telling me, baby. And so I want you to take it before the Lord. And she has peace. Then we can work together because if your wife doesn't have peace and a sense of calling to that, there's a good chance she's going to disrupt that. It's going to be a problem. There won't be any fruit. She's going to resist it. And I don't want that in my marriage or in my ministry. And so I told her, I said, the Holy Spirit seems to be provoking me to go. And she came home and she said, the Lord said, whatever God tells you to do, you're to do. And that's how I began to actually step out of the four walls. And I went to China and then we went to the Philippines and in India and just different missions and different opportunities began to open up. But it began with prayer and it began with the Spirit speaking to me and the Spirit speaking to her. And united, we were both willing to pay whatever price was going to be exacted for doing what God said. I didn't want to go somewhere and get arrested or get in some kind of problem or lose my life for that matter and have her live the rest of her life thinking I should have told them what I was feeling. I didn't want that. And the best way for me to prevent that was to tell her you need to take it before the Lord and for me to just wait on the Spirit of God because Bibles can come to China at different times. I don't have to go right now. I'd have to go with this. I'll go when God says. And so she came home it just so happened God's timing. She came home from that from that pastor's wives conference and she said God told me to let you go wherever you're supposed to go and not to hold back. Let me tell you what had happened while he was gone. Well, we had a little bit of an accident. My little daughter the baby decided to jump jump off the couch and I couldn't get to her in time. And so we had some broken arms and a broken arm and so that was me on my own but God was God had sustained me. David's parents had come over. I remember they came over and watched the rest of the children while I went to while I went to the doctor's office and and she she was admitted into the hospital and she they put what did they do? Is it a bar or something in there? They put it they put well they put I can't remember exactly but she was in traction. That was my baby. They put her in traction. That was my baby. And well actually that was a different time. She broke her arm three times. Two. Three times and dislocated. Oh dislocated. Two different arms were broken. Same arm different arms? Two different arms. Both arms have been broken. She was a jumper. She was a jumper. She jumped. She was a jumper. Okay but yes. She broke her arm the second reason I remember that mama is because I was teaching a Wednesday night Bible study. Yes. I was teaching the Wednesday. That's right. And Marie called me to let me know I'm at the hospital. That's right. Because I'm a broke her arm again. Yeah. And so I had to leave the Wednesday night Bible study to drive to the hospital. Yes. The baby was in traction with Marie and Marie is laying on the bed with her. She was a nursing baby. You know she's still she was only a couple years old and I came in and Marie was was nursing her baby. She snuggled up to her in this little baby bed. Very touching moment for me. And then I had to walk out and I heard her crying daddy, daddy, daddy. And I'm standing sitting in another room listening to my baby crying in the other room as a setting her arm. So yeah. We've gone through some things that have been difficult to do the things we're called to do. Yeah. We've experienced quite a number of things including those kinds of things. When you had gone to China was it difficult for you to leave? Yes. I was taking an elevator an escalator we were going up and Marie was remember that I do. Marie was standing on the ground floor and the escalator I climbed in the escalator and I kept watching her watching her eye and she just watched me. She looked like I had died. She had that look like something terrible. And I just kept looking even bending down when I couldn't see her anymore. And that was the last thing I saw was just her sitting with standing with concern. So it was very hard. It was very hard to go in and then to go into Beijing and to bring in suitcases and bibles and to know that we had to go through their customs and to know the potential to be arrested was very high. And all of that. Yeah. And the idea that I mean even an incarceration of a short period of time you know is something that that was concerned. So yeah it was very difficult for me. And for my girl you know because she had small babies and there's there are prices that you pay sometimes that that have such an emotional depth to them that you can't really tell other people what that felt like. Because a lot of people say well why'd you go? You don't have to go. See they have a burden they have a sense they don't. That's not their life. Why would they care? You know but when we dropped off those those Bibles John and we met some we met some people there some Japanese people who were there we met them and they were transporting the Bibles to those who didn't have Bibles because there were whole churches with hundreds of people with no Bibles hundreds of hundreds of members of the congregation there were no Bibles. So we brought the Bibles into them and I still remember putting my suitcase down and I don't I won't go into detail of how it happens that you transfer the Bibles but there is a transferring that takes place and when we put the suitcases down with all these Bibles in them and I saw the Japanese people come they were crying they were crying as they were picking up the Bibles and how could I not let him go? How can I not? For the grace you know for for the Lord's sake that these people would find him and desire that I couldn't I couldn't I couldn't I he had to go he had to go I thank God because it was very freeing for me freeing it freed me up because I want the Lord to use my husband in any way and any and always constant constant in a constant way I don't ever want to be the wife that held him back and she has told me that many times John and she has been faithful to that she let me go to India she's she's she's blessed me as I've gone twice you know she's she's never stood in my way I've been to the Philippines several times to minister leaving her behind with children small children you know and you know when God spoke to her heart and said you let him be what he's called to be and while that's what began to work in me for me to say I've I've done what I'm supposed to be doing I want to now take care of my wife and my children in a different way and I actually stopped doing the kinds of things that opportunities were being afforded me to do I began to say no I'm going to concentrate on caring for my family especially as my children grew older and went through their their tumultuous teens and all I didn't want to leave Marie with the responsibility of caring for children that really required two parents for the teen years especially and so I that's when I started backing off of doing the traveling that I was doing and the things that I was doing that's when I began to back off and and that just proceeded throughout the rest of our ministry but Marie and I have a strong sense that our real call has always been to this church it's always been to this church and so we've had plenty of opportunity to go worldwide you know just to serve in other places South America Europe you know Asia we've had chances to go and we have and we still do but not as frequently as we used to it's cool to see that even in the midst of even here in you Marie because I do know a quite a number of people that who are couples maybe the husband has a desire to serve or be in ministry on the wife or vice versa and one one or the other will not have that that capability to release and I know one of the things that you've mentioned before Pastor in some of the guys that you're mentoring is if there's a wife that does not release it's would you call it a disqualification or he has no ministry his real ministry is to his wife and I believe that a man's testimony of his ministry is his wife especially his wife because his children can go up and down you know and I know the qualifications that are outlined in Titus and in first Timothy I know those qualifications but at a certain point a man's children come to that place where they're responsible for their own lives but in marriage that man and that woman are together until one of them goes to to heaven and so I have a you know of course if some guys got some crazy kids you know that disqualifies it why are you looking at me well because I'm just prophesying what's going to happen your babies are small right now but I'll be watching the one who really disqualifies you is Liv hear that honey so I'm real aware of that but I'm much more aware of how the husband and the wife relate you know I say this and it sounds sometimes it may not sound as gentile as it should but I've said this before even a dog that is neglected you can tell you know how much more so a wife you know I can tell when someone doesn't take care of their animals but you can also tell when a woman is not cared for you can tell a woman who is loved by her husband and they have a good relationship there's a sense that you will have with them and it's not something they're contriving because some do some put on like oh I love this he's such a hunk in this and that right now that's you can see through that pretty pretty quickly but it's the normal things that they do it's just the way they are with one another you know I can see that any man who's been around as long as I have gains experience and so I can see that I can see that this is a woman that's cherished by this guy and it's not what he's saying when she's there it's what he says when he doesn't know I'm noticing and I do notice because I'm finding the same room and you've seen this about me I'm observant I notice things you know and I'll go hmm that was and I'll say that to myself I wonder what's going on with them and you pick that up and so man's ministry is his wife you know the woman Paul said is the glory of the man and your real ministry a man's real ministry is the wife and and I can see whether she's cherished nourished whether she's she's taught you know I can see that and you know what kind of spirit does she have does she have a kind loving gentle what kind of spirit does this woman have because if that man is a man of God then he's going to have certain qualities that the wife will begin to adjust to and he's going to have an influence over her and um she may at one time be a little little bit headstronger whatever you know and there's nothing wrong with strength I appreciate and love it Sarah was a very strong woman in the Old Testament but her name was originally Surai and Surai means dominator you know and we can see what she did you know go into my handmade you know and all of that so she was a strong woman but she became Sarah and the name Sarah means princess and so what happened well the scripture speaks concerning the relationship but one of the things about her that I find interesting is that she called him Lord and she obeyed him so there was some connection that they had that over time Abraham became that man that father of many nations he became that man of God that this woman eventually grew to you know as strong as she was she grew to respect to the point where she referred to him as the one who was master in her life you know and that you know I can almost hear some women right now I ain't never gonna call you that but you know what she wasn't a weak woman she was a strong woman and I take I think a strong woman needs a strong foil if you will a strong man somebody who she can work with and grow with and all you know my wife is a very quiet woman as you've known her you met her when you were six you've known you know you've known Ufmary and known Marie for a while now she's not a weak woman she's a very very sweet woman you know but she's not a weak woman and that strength that she has is is not a an obnoxious I have to be honest with that word an arrogant pushy it's not that kind of strength it's a moral strength she's a good woman she's a good woman and you see and that's that's real strength it's not that she you do this and you shouldn't do that and I won't and she's not that woman I just know that if this does not please her it's because it's not a good thing and I know that about her and so because she's a good person she influences me for good it's because if she she knows this if she told me you can't do that like that yeah right I'm an average man you know I'm not an unusual man I just you're not gonna tell me what I'm gonna do not like that I and she knows this when we got married she was trying to learn how to show me her concern so she was speaking a certain way and we were just married and I'd say I already have a mother I have a mother I don't need a second one what I did is I married a woman who's my wife so we need to learn to communicate so that I don't feel dominated by you or pushed around by you that's not gonna happen and that's how she and I were so she learned how to communicate to me she learned how to say what was on her heart in a way that I understood and I went about trying to figure out her language so I'd know what she was doing and that's kind of how it worked with us and so the thing that that really is the influence that she has because they say that you know they say the man is the head and the woman's the neck you know the man has authority but the wife has influence and my wife's influence is for good and because I know that she loves Christ and she does her devotions and she just today she's sharing the little tidbits from the devotions and we were conversing or that I see she has a private time with God I respect that and because she does she's got influence in my life because I don't take you know well the scripture says that I'm not to walk in the council of the ungodly I'm not going to take advice from somebody who's not prayerful and not thoroughly biblical why would I do that that's not good advice I'll be careful to listen to those who fear the Lord my wife does and so that's how our relationship works and that's why I can say to her which I do I do it all the time I'll say you know baby we've been invited to go we were talking about this yesterday honey we've been invited to go I've been invited to go to Utah to do something in St. George you know and in July so I say what do you think you know I could I could say yes I'm gonna go oh by the way honey we're gonna go I could do that but I don't I say to her honey I've been invited to this is what they want of us this is what it'll require for us what do you think and I leave it in her hands and she'll come back and she'll say you know whatever the Spirit's telling you honey we're I'm gonna be doing a pastor's leaders conference in the state of Washington and it's at this time what do you think just that was our conversation yesterday oh I think that would be great yeah honey you can meet with the pastor's wives the pastor's wife and you together can't and we discuss these things but it's always before I always put them before these things before I don't come home saying we're gonna do this we're gonna do that because that word we're means something it's not I'm gonna do this it's we're gonna do this and if I've got a hesitant resisting wife quenches the Holy Spirit and the work isn't done properly so I want her in prayer and she wants a man of prayer and together we can work and that's how it works when you're mentioning that if the wife this Marie does come back to you and say honey I don't know if that's a good idea or the Spirit does speak through our wives and brings testimony or confirmation how would you respond to something like that I respond now differently than I did in the beginning now I've always always had a trust for Marie but there's only been a couple times you'll remember this very quickly that she's walked up to me and there was somebody that we had on staff and she says I don't trust that person was it me that's why I said we had on staff this is your last day my last interview uh no of course it wasn't it was the number of years ago she's done this twice and both times she was a hundred percent accurate both times you know to the pure all things are pure and and I've learned I've learned and then there I was saying well baby you just don't know them you know if you got to know them you know and some people they're this this this and that and I said well that's because you just don't know them I think they're kind of rough around the edges that was what I was saying and she's just looking at me and lo and behold she was a hundred percent right so that that's that's happened a couple times and so I am much quicker now to listen if my wife says to me something I listen I really do because she can see what I don't see and she walks in the spirit and she loves me and this church and so if she has a sense in her heart and this is not she has a check of the spirit I listen to her and and there are others like that that I listen to but in our marriage I most definitely and that's why I'll present to her and I'll say this is what I'm thinking what do you think because I really do want to hear what she's thinking she may see something I don't see she may know something that I don't know and so I need her I need her advice I need her her wisdom her experience she's been in ministry pretty much as long as I have almost as long as I have so she knows what she's doing the wisdom she's got a lot of wisdom but it's her purity I have to be honest with it's it's the purity of her heart you know and and that's a fact you know anybody who knows Marie knows that about her it's it's a fact she's got a gentle loving caring spirit she doesn't admit to it as much as it's really there but that's what one of the qualities about her that I love too is that she's self-effacing she doesn't see herself for what I know she is you know which which is really a blessing to me too because that's called humility and I can trust somebody like that and a strong woman she's got strength you know for the right things you know John I was thinking about some of the ladies where their husband aren't involved in ministry or you know they may go to church or with the women but the women want them more involved in ministry you can't just push your husband into ministry and and I think a lot of women try that with their husbands you know nag them you know they nag them I I remember a woman who nagged her husband to death he never could get anything right nothing my mom no wasn't your mama you know he could never get anything right and she was a super she was a spiritual person in the relationship and it took years the man finally came around and is walking with the Lord but it took years but you know but her years were a lot of years of nagging and then finally she allowed the spirit of God to touch him and let that go but so many years had gone by with her nagging and nagging and we're talking about 25 plus years really yeah it's not just a year I think you even left her it was 25 at least 25 years of nagging I'm aware and tear oh yeah that's hard you know also I to what you're saying to Marie I like that because on the flip side of it when we look at us as husband's pastor when we're able to see our wives as a conduit for the Holy Spirit to speak through it's almost of having this amazing component of our marriage where we hear from the Lord I think of Abigail and David when David wanted to go wipe out I think his name was Navel he wanted to go wipe them out and and Abigail stopped David and spoke to him and saying don't regard this foolish man I'm paraphrasing look what you have to the influence and the advice that she was giving and I think about how our wives are also the Holy Spirit speaks through them and it's an amazing tool to have that I think sometimes husbands overlook absolutely you're right because I'm the one called I'm the one and they don't yeah and they don't hear from the wives and so this is refreshing to hear well you know Jesus God said the two shall become one flesh you know it's not good that the man should be alone you know he's an incomplete person where in the world do you get the idea that he didn't need her you know where do you get that idea I mean God said I'm bringing you this woman to complete you and now you're disregarding the things that I brought her to help you to see it doesn't make sense to me and when you begin to value your wife in that capacity when you realize that there are components she has that you don't have and it makes you a better person a whole person you're very unwise if you don't listen to your wife now ultimately I have to take the responsibility for the decisions that are made I stand before the Lord in that capacity but my wife you know she has to be aware of that that the way that that Eve again Eve influenced Adam for the wrong you know well wives need to remember they have the capacity to do that too and I can be influenced by desiring to be with her more than anything else to the degree that I may not hear what the Spirit is saying I need to do so that's why prayer and the word and fellowship and all of that that's why that's all so very important because if you don't have those things you're left to your own devices you're going to do the things that you feel good about right now and you're not going to realize that had we been in the Word had been seeking God had we asked for some advice because some of these decisions are critical we wouldn't have made some bad decisions and over the years you're going to know this you've been on staff for a while now I'm not one of these pastors that make snap decisions I don't just go yeah we're going to do that because the Spirit says I'm not that guy I'm the one who has to think it through and weigh it through and wait and sometimes for a long time until I have a sense this is the right thing and a lot of times what happens is the Spirit just begins unfolding things very slowly and they're naturally forming and shaping because he had said to me stay out of it and I didn't realize that in my hesitance I'm actually waiting on him while he's doing what he needs to do God forms Adam with the out of the dust but he's there a lifeless thing until he breathes into it life and there are things he was forming before the life was seen and I think that sometimes God will do works in us like that the forming process we're not sure what's we don't know what's going on until he breathes his life into it then you see it all it became a living whatever you know and so there are times that I have to wait on the Lord while he's forming but he can use my wife as the breath that animates those things and I'll say that's what it is and that's what God wanted and now I see how this all ties together and like Jesus once said he said the things that I'm doing right now you don't understand but you will later that's where patience and waiting on the Lord really shows itself for what it is and in marriage God may have put on some man's hearty a call in the ministry but until God puts that call in the heart of the wife the man's going to have a lot of problems until she really sees it and what he has to do is he has to prove to her through his own personal ministry to her that he's a called man if you can teach your wife you can teach anybody that's the truth if I can teach my wife I can sit down with this woman and I can say thus saith the Lord and isn't that what Paul says in Ephesians 5 when he says we wash him with the water of the word I have to have a prophetic mantle in my woman's life she needs to see me in a prophetic way and Marie does I mean she you know she does she'll say God was speaking God moved she says things like that to me and and that's what I want I want her to see me as more than the breadwinner any man can be a breadwinner I want her to see me as a man of God a man who hears from God because she can trust that kind of man and we are to be encourages to our husbands not pull them down I mean you know there's plenty of women that all they do is complain about their husbands they never doing that for them for the women I've heard many many complaints over the years and I've had to tell these women you need to go to prayer and you need to be you never mind about your husband take care of yourself regarding your walk with the Lord and how you speak to him and you change your attitude and you ask God to bless your husband and what can you do for him how can you minister to him because he may not be getting the attention that that he should from you and so we have to be mindful of one another and loving of one another and take care of each other and encourage one another everybody every man needs encouragement by their husband I mean by their husband excuse me either wife excuse me my goodness well yeah bill needs to be encouraged and that speaks of the completeness of one to the other they make each other whole absolutely and so yeah if you if you get to know your wife and what is pleasing to her and it ultimately pleases you too you know a man is a fool who who doesn't understand that you know when my wife is happy and it's not that the house revolves around her happiness that happy happy wife happy life and that's a joke you know but when you've got when you've got a wife who knows she's loved and a husband knows he's respected because I need to be respected much more than be told I I love you I need to I need to know that that this woman my my wife that she respects me and that's why Paul used that word he said that the husband is to love the wife but he says in wives respect your husband why do you say that because in our vocabulary that's how we spell the word love it's her respect and so I need to be worthy of her respect you know because I can almost hear people right now well he has to be worthy you know that's always uh that's true you know I should be a man who is worthy of respect but God doesn't command the wife to wait until he's worthy God commands her to respect him and so if she wants to use and make excuses until he that makes her God in his life and that's part of your problem is you're trying to make him into the image of the man you want him to be rather than stepping out of the way in prayer like my wife's been saying and you know being honest etc I know it sounds simplistic but get out of the way and pray for him you don't believe in prayer I do pray for him God touched my husband's life or father touched my wife I've done all that I know to do I don't know what else to do I sent such a burden I want to serve you she doesn't want to set me free God help me you take it to the Lord and there are things that that happen I had a woman approach me years ago now after we had a men's retreat and she approached me and she said to me pastor I need prayer and I said for what? she said my husband wants to serve the Lord more and me I've been I've been quenching the spirit in his life she says I want him home more I want him with me more and and I said you know have you ever prayed for a a godly husband? yeah well maybe this is the answer to prayer you need to be aware of that because we and I we've been around for a while now we've seen men who started out well who wanted to be used by the Lord who had a wife who said no you stay home no you're neglecting us or I need to go out and have my girl time or whatever and some of those marriages didn't make it some of them didn't make it and then a lot of reasons why but that was part of it he wanted to pursue the Lord and she didn't want to not to the degree he did it's okay to go to church every other week we ought to go off you know the kids are in soccer or they're playing baseball they're there doing this or that and and I've seen that over the years John I've seen it where the husband and the wife's priorities are not Christ centered so other things take the place of that and so they don't pray for each other they don't read they don't serve they don't do any of that and then they come up and they tell us you know how we're getting the divorce and a lot of that is just simply because they didn't do the basics you know they didn't there's no conditions when Paul was telling the husbands to love their wives as Christ's love the church and for wives to respect their husbands there's no conditions on the love nor on the respect or to respect and love regardless well think about it I mean Christ loved the church think about it I mean was it a perfect lovely wonderful sweet no we're a bunch of jerks you know we're all sinners and yet he loves us you know we ought to how did Christ love the church well think about first the church is some beautiful radiant thing we're being purified by the blood of Christ and sanctified by his spirit and his word but he loved us and so he has plans for us and he's going to make us into that beautiful radiant bride through his spirit and word and all of that but if you loved me and knowing that when I was first saved that I had a journey that was going to be very try could be trying to him if you will yet he loved me who am I to say my wife is not perfect therefore wouldn't you become perfect then I'll love her no that's not how Christ loved the church that's so true we put conditions on it you know and yeah that's good he loves us and spider for so yes because if I should be cast at a long time ago if you know if you put conditions on how he loved me then why should I not love my wife the same way exactly right so they're convicting yes and sobering it's over and so it's we're to love our wives and wives were to love the husbands and so well you guys it looks like that's our time for that went quick that went quick went really quick that was a good time anything you'd like to say to our church as we close well I can't wait to see you on let's see what today what is today Friday Friday okay so Sunday's coming so looking forward to seeing you on Sunday we love you and looking to see your beautiful faces yeah I'm looking forward to Sunday we're going to be looking at continuing our study picking up and continuing our study and in second Corinthians it's going to be I think it's a good study I was edified as I was preparing it so carefully our church will be we had a good turnout this last Sunday that our very first Sunday that we got together the numbers of people who showed up surprised me to be honest with you I was expecting something entirely different and so it was it was good to see so many people and the joy that many had especially my first service people you second service people they're kind of bummers but the first service people are a lot of fun and but our Wednesday night we returned to our Wednesday night last night and on Wednesday night and it was a blessing to once again to be able to gather worship has been so edifying John it has been and and with the release of our new it is he is worthy yes CD I mean it's sold out and we've had to order more and somebody was writing how they listened to the CD three times in one day already they were so blessed by it I think the church ought to be purchasing that CD yes you know it's a it's a great worship tool it really is and we're going to be making it available in various ways and you know you can always call the office guys and we can order it for you we're going to have it prepared for you but yeah I love you I'm so happy that I'm able to see you again and I look forward to seeing you on Sunday and you guys do have to come out pastor you gave me a little sneak preview of your message for Sunday and you're going to want to come out and as pastor David mentioned go buy the bookstore you're able to pick up the CD after the services it's a great CD and so I would encourage our church family to pick that up and so we love you church family and we look forward to seeing you God bless you