 Well good for DEF CON for realizing that a very important person is sitting to my right and he needs to be heard And if he can't get on that stage, he's on this stage So can everybody see me just a little bit here sort of yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can hear me I'm Jane Harman. I'm a recovering politician and I am thrilled to be just beneath the main stage at DEF CON With a group of folks who come from very different communities members of Congress and Hackers I Spent 17 years Count that as a member of Congress that's 10,001 in binary and Sometimes it's felt like 10,001 years I Left in 2011 to head the Wilson Center many of you may know it and if you don't what you need to know is that at this con are 15 senior staffers to members of Congress plus these members Senior staffers who have come here some Republican some Democrats all mixed up to learn from this Amazing con and this amazing audience. So thank you for teaching them Over my years in Congress my 10,001 years in Congress. I learned that politics is Analog but The world and the problems politicians confront Is digital? Some politicians are worse offenders than others These guys get it, but a whole bunch of folks I think they're still out there in the United States Congress are still using flip phones and We are here today to see whether the hackers in Congress at the hackers and Some of the more advanced people in Congress can help bridge the divide Trillions of dollars are being lost to breaches and destructive cyber attacks as you all know plus lives are being put at risk if critical services are Cut off by bad actors 30,000 people are here At this con with a keen interest in hacking and in many cases with extraordinary skills The US Congress needs you Today we're going to try to hack Congress in 45 minutes probably would take a lot less than that and to explain how you can help and If we don't work now to translate between the traditional silos of our two communities Then we will miss opportunities. You know this to consider what solutions exist No one solves problems in isolation something this amazing community knows So before you right surrounding me sit to real life current members of Congress Jim Langevin right here, dear friend of mine is a deaf con repeater get that from Rhode Island's second congressional district and Ted Lou on my left Media star you see him all the time. It's from California's 33. Yay Ted congressional district This crowd has no, no This is great Jim and I served together in the house through the dark days and they were after 9-11 He currently sits on the House Armed Services Committee the Homeland Security Committee And he previously served on the House Intelligence Committee He's known for his efforts to improve America's cyber security enterprise co-founder co-chair of the bipartisan congressional Cybersecurity caucus and he's authored numerous bills to protect personal data and improve our government's Coordination efforts against cyber attacks. That's what we're going to talk about Ted Lou is also a member of the congressional cybersecurity caucus. He represents the South Bay of Los Angeles Which is the most where most of the aerospace in in California is and Guess what it most of that was my former congressional district. So yay for Ted a lot of technology is developed there as I said and I remember About 20 years ago or so meeting a kid named Elon Who was making rockets on the sawdust floor in his rental in El Segunda? Ted is one of the only four computer scientists in Congress get that there are four That's better than zero and he's a colonel in the Air Force reserves as an added bonus. He's a lawyer So am I so go ahead and boo And a founding co-chair of the congressional virtual reality caucus. I actually think some of Congress's virtual reality Side-by-side these policy makers are two genuine hackers Info sec Jen and space rogue figure out who's who Jen Ellis is awesome she heads Rapid 7's policy team and Dedicates most of her time to helping government understand information security issues. Thank you for that from a grateful nation She records a cool podcast works to fix problems in outdated laws Most of them are outdated and hosts a killer party at Defconn. I went last night. Thank you for including me Space rogue is a security researcher whose reputation precedes him today He is global hacking strategy lead for X-Force red. How do you put that on a card? Do you it's a big card big card and I PM Space, please. Don't hack my iPhone or if you do leave the pictures of my grandkids So Imagine this let's get into it a massive Destructive wear attack diagnosed as ransomware similar to not pet you shuts down hospitals and train stations and pick whatever you want Across either of your congressional districts and cost companies there billions of dollars Or a horrible twist a domestic terrorist and we certainly have learned about that if we didn't already know about it Could shoot up a shopping mall at home while carrying out a denial of service attack on the malls phone infrastructure So let's start with our congress people What do you do if that happens all of that part of that? As a member of Congress, who do you call? What happens? Jim well Jane first of all I want to thank you and the Wilson Center for Hosting us here today. I am a deaf kind of repeater, and I'm thrilled to be back I was here two years ago and thoroughly enjoyed the experience importantly, I learned a lot and gave me the opportunity to engage with some retalented cyber researchers, and I Appreciate the time spent then and the opportunity to be back now and to to be here with my colleague Ted Lou and together one of the handful of few that That would get cyber security and how important it is to the country and honored to be here with the panelists and Jane again, thank you for your leadership of the Wilson Center Jane and I served in Congress as she mentioned for many years and we have nothing but the deepest respect for Jane Harman And it was lost to the Congress when she left Jane any time you want to come back the water's fine come on back So I'd rather come back to I'd rather come back to Def Con So Let me say this we would hope that the right processes right now or in place That we would have a whole of government whole nation response to a major cyber incident that would be in many ways so You know we have to wait to wait to be seen we there after the Several high-profile Sub-intrusions or hacks that took place. There was a process put together PPD 41 and the president Obama that basically laid out what would happen if there were ever a need for a National incident response team to put together and so there the policy is in place Now whether it can be effectively executed bringing all the entities together and without infighting is sort of we'd have to Hope for the best, but we need to practice it. That's the key thing It needs to be exercised and drilled over and over again now the closest thing we have That said that took place was clearly after the 2016 elections where we were totally caught off guard By the degree to which the Russians were going to interfere with our elections We were not caught out of guard in 2018 we did have a more of a whole of nation a whole of government response put in place and We were much better protected in 2018 but not perfect it's still a work in progress the Russians we believe will be back again in 2020 and there are further preparations that are put in place that are ongoing right now to make sure that we are Protecting our election system and our infrastructure going forward that being said the last thing I'll wind up with this We now though had to be able to take that that whole of government response And we also need to make sure that it's it would apply in other areas of national incident of a great consequence so that we would be able to recover and Build resilience but to make sure that we're exercising this so that it becomes a real strong muscle memory Well, so Ted just to ask you to add to that answer On 9 11 when Jim and I were serving in Congress I was walking toward the Capitol in the morning my cell phone. Yes. I had one not a flip phone Rang and I was told The Capitol and the office buildings have been evacuated Congress is closed if you can imagine this we all take an oath to defend the country But hey Congress is closed. There was no evacuation plan 250 members plus were milling around in front of the Capitol Trying to figure out what our next act was I was then the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee That's a job Adam Schiff had for a long time before he became the chairman and we rounded up some of the members We went into one guy's apartment, which was on the Hill and basement apartment and then we figured out We ought to do two things one we ought to mass at the headquarters, which would then close by of the Capitol police to see if we could get secure comms and be helpful And the other thing we ought to work on is getting the Capitol opened so that Congress would be available To protect and at least serve the American people during the worst day in modern history So Ted now that you've heard that lovely story right is Congress prepared now for the kind of cyber Incident that I was talking about No, we are not Let me First say I'm thrilled to be here the only Inaccuracy in the introduction is that I'm a recovering computer science major just want to put that out there I'm honored to be here with Jane Harman much of what I know on Congress I learned from watching Jane Harman who was an amazing member of Congress So thank you for being my mentor and to Cosman Jim Landgevan He mentioned his whole government approach when a crisis hits it is generally too late for Congress to act We are not the executive branch. We don't sort of take immediate action We pass laws and we do oversight none of which is speedy or fast or quick But what we can do is try to set up conditions and to put in laws that mitigate any future crisis That's one reason that Jim Landgevan and I are co-authoring a bill to establish a White House cyber Security czar if you look at how we do cyber in the federal government it is pretty messed up You've got the Department Homeland Security that's sort of involved then you've got our DOD that's sort of involved Then you've got who knows why the office of management and budget who sort of involved and then you got the White House Which is sort of involved and you sort of have the NSC who was involved and they eliminated the national security There's cyber security person. So it is all over the place and if we could centralize a single point of contact I think that would make things easier in addition when you sort of look at our cyber security at least at the federal level a war very weak Space Rogue testified in 1998 about how weak cyber security was a nearly 20 years later We were still there. I remember being in the House oversight committee when We discovered this massive breach of security clearance forms from the federal government Nearly 20 million of these documents were stolen from a foreign country public reporting as it was likely China These are extremely sensitive forms and onus SF 86 forms I filled them out when I was in the military They ask you everything under the Sun every bad thing you've ever done every person you've ever met as a foreign person It is a treasure trove of blackmail and now there's 20 million of these records floating around and so our national security suffered a pretty significant hit not because of any kinetic attack on us, but because there was a cyber intrusion and it was The cyber security standards were so weak that the inspector general's office, which was inspect these agencies Actually started doing this report saying please increase your cyber security and their last report said essentially Shut down some of your systems because you can't protect them Unfortunately, they're director of the office of personal management did not do that and we had this massive intrusion The other thing that we did is when you look at it Why would the office of personal management, which was essentially a human resources agency? Protect or is known as a crown jewels of American national intelligence It'd be like asking the Department of Agriculture to protect our nuclear launch codes really stupid So I worked with a congressman Steve Russell then a Republican out of Oklahoma And we went to Obama administration says and said you got to move this database out of there They did this whole interagency review They came back a few months later and agreed with us and now it's being protected by your cyber command in a much better place So these are some things we can do in Congress to try to mitigate future crises But when a crisis actually hits there is very little Congress can do so Jen What if I turn on my cell phone later it's off for now And I have received a call from president donald trump And he's asking me to find someone really smart in fact some two people Really smart to advise him on what the federal government should do right now To protect itself. What do you tell our president? Why do I start with that question? Firstly, I just like to say hacking congress in 45 minutes was not a challenge guys. So don't get ideas, please I I mean, I think I think that whenever anybody's asked Where do you start on how to secure secure yourself and and to move forward? It's a super complex question and it's a multi-layered question um, I think that The the first thing that you do is you bring as many sort of smart informed people together as possible And you have them educate each other listen to each other Identify what the problem sets are prioritize them figure out what the right solutions are But this is donald trump. We're talking about he doesn't have A lot of time for this Think about his presidential daily brief, which he doesn't have a lot of time for so You've heard from both of these people Very informed members of congress some of the steps congress is taking You're on a phone call. You got your five minutes and you say one thing Yeah, what is the number one thing? Yeah So I think one thing that that we see at least with this administration That I have seen is that cyber and yes, I'm going to use the c word Because it's appropriate here in this context that cyber in dc right now isn't really taken as a priority So I would probably advise the president that uh, there needs to be a higher focus and a closer look at What cyber is and how we can fix it and let's put some dollars into it and some people and see where the problems are And how we can fix them But one of the recent steps he took you heard this from our our members is he Downgraded the cyber job in the white house. Uh, it was held by a man named tom bossard Who's pretty smart on cyber my impression certainly he's now gone into the private sector But not only did bossard get fired But his job was abolished and I think the number of dollars. I don't know folks spent on Cyber protection in the government has gone down in real terms has it Well, it's still in the in the billions but not nearly enough and I think we need to do more in terms of building up expertise within uh within dhs and not just relying on Reach back from from other agencies, but the other thing that we need to do. I believe is Again engage more with the cyber security research community I've learned a lot by coming to def gone and understanding that The the hackers they like to break things But they like to do it so that they can fix them and make the internet Work better and that's where we need to draw on that Strength and leverage it as a country. So Jen, how do you bottle def con? So I That's a great question. Uh, there are lots models. Um, I I would just say like quickly that while I do think resourcing security appropriately and giving it a mandate is essential I I agree with representative lew that one of the challenges we have is There's a sort of chaotic approach. There's like a scattergun approach and there's too many Different voices involved and like I would worry with this sort of uh, you know Trumpian view of like just give it money and tell them to go That uh, we're not going to have a lot of strategy in how we go about it I think having a centralized voice that is expert on this area Is is a a good idea and I think that you know to to um to congressman langeman's point If we can have that group work with this group, you know As you say bottling the security researchers and have the researchers providing the appropriate level of input in Where are the real risks? How do we uh, how do we address those? What needs to be prioritized? That's what I think you make progress So one way that we're trying to engage a hacking community is to ask folks who are interested To help hack the federal government and so I I introduced a bill with congressman taylor, a republican out of virginia It's called the hack the department of homeland security act. It was signed into law earlier this year. They required DHS to do two things one was to make an assessment of cyber vulnerabilities and second to create a bug bounty program to pay White hat hackers to hack dhs and to tell them what was wrong with the agency and to hopefully fix those bugs so If you're interested Contact dhs and then see if if you can help them Well, there are two good things about what you just said Ted One is you actually got something passed on a bipartisan basis and two is It will probably do some good. So those are you know, we're building back congress is what I have to say I should mention That we've already seen a The the hacking program Be successful when ash Carter was secretary of defense I certainly applauded and encouraged the hack the pentagon program, which was wildly successful With that and gsa and as a result kevin mccarthy and I and a bipartisan basis put through a A bill that requires dhs now to have a vulnerability disclosure program and processes that I'd like to eventually see every department agency Have a similar type of a policy put in place that i'm feeling more more confident that that we will So hanging out here yesterday with all these brilliant staffers from Congress we were briefed by various folks and two things were mentioned or many more things, but one is that Failure is good Failure is your friend you learn it. Well, hopefully you learn from failure. You don't just keep failing You can fail upward and you can become smarter That was one and the other word that I've never heard in government was imagination Using imagination Is the way we? Anticipate things that can go wrong get ahead of the of those who are really trying to hurt us So let me ask the members of congress about those two words Does our government? Is it okay in government to fail to learn from failures? And where is the imagination in government about things like cyber? Well, you're right on point that if if You you don't fail you don't learn it's going to be smart failure and I mean this is somewhat related to my defense world and the subcommittee that I chair and intelligence emerging threats and capabilities that you need to Look at failure is an opportunity to to learn you have to foster a culture of trying things risk-taking but Not penalizing failure, but in a sense Rewarding it or please building in a culture and that goes for for cyber as well But you don't learn these things unless we exercise them that we plan It's not something you can just hope is going to work out. It has to be Thought through exercise and that's why the war gaming or or planning is so is so important One reason I read science fiction is for the imagination. At least that's what I tell people So In terms of congress to change the subject and get your mind off your day job So in terms of Imagination, I think jane makes a great point that government certainly doesn't do enough of that But even before you get there just want to understand sort of what congress is like Members of congress don't really walk around thinking about encryption That's not something they do So you're faced with you know every two years when these two legislative cycles we vote Well over a thousand times And i'm 80 90 percent of those votes We don't get a single phone call message email or a meeting and then You're asked to vote on all these different things from You know issues you have no idea about issues you care a lot about So there's not a lot of time on cyber unless you put directly in front of the member of congress or their staff So it's important to have conferences like def con that raise awareness and then when people read about things in the press they might go oh that's sort of interesting and one way to try to get more Um imagination and government is to just let people even know this problem exists So the members of congress and their staffs started thinking about it Yeah, so space rogue you testified 21 years ago. My god. I'm old No, that doesn't make you old Not at all Not to me. I was 15 then. Yeah, you were 15 me too. So you testified 21 years ago What was the sophistication of the crowd you addressed and do you think Congress is trying through all the tasks that members have to do and what I would call the perpetual reelection campaign Uh, do you think that congress is? Trying to become more sophisticated and aware Uh, well the the the uh, the committee that I addressed then was actually pretty sophisticated I mean had senator glenn who was an astronaut senator thompson senator Lieberman All very sophisticated none of them is there anymore. None of them are there anymore and but the current the current administration of the current congress people that I see Want to be sophisticated. They want to be knowledgeable. They want to understand the issues But I mean as we all know some of these issues are fairly complex And that's why they have their staffers to sort of research this stuff for them And it's up to us as a community To engage with those agencies and those people and those staffers and those congress people to educate them And as as representative lewis said he he's not getting letters from many of the bills that he's voting on Why aren't we writing letters? Why aren't we telling them that we're saying we're here. We're available. We're knowledgeable Uh, you know look at this issue in this way. Here's something you may not have thought about whatever get engaged Write those letters make congress more Technical so that they understand the issues that they're voting on Can I ask the audience questions show of hands? Sorry, I really like audience participation because I don't see why I should do all the work So quick show of hands Who feels like they're pretty confident What congress is doing around cyber security like what issues they're focused on? Like I'm somewhat confident on it. Okay Um, who feels like they know what their local representation Thinks about cyber security like if they have a point of view on it what their platform is what they focus on Okay, a little a little bit more. Yes This is pathetic folks Okay, uh, who would actually have an interest in helping to shape better cyber security policy Look at that. Okay. Well, so firstly that's that's awesome. Yeah, that's really great. Like we love that. You should totally get involved And I think you know one thing that I would love to like sort of talk about is how you can get involved Um, and I I do think I mean because I think it's really it's really challenging and it's like a little talk about that All right. Yeah, how how can they get involved? This is from an experienced hacker slash policy one Okay, um, and and I'll say like when I started doing policy work, um, I You can hear in my accent not american. I had no idea. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a policy person I knew nothing whatsoever. Um, I still think I know nothing and yet some Sitting here, which is a little bit awkward. Um, so what I did was Um, I so firstly I talked to other people who were interested So I went online and I looked at who's talking about certain topics and introduced myself to them Figure out what the topics are that you care about for me The thing that got me like angry was a really close friend of mine that's a security researcher got threatened with legal action And it was completely legitimate research and then I learned about the cfa Who loves the cfa? Yeah, that's what I thought Fantastic. So, uh, that was my issue was like I was all fired up about the cfa So I went and figured out who talks about the cfa who's been working on that Um, and I went and made friends with them and then I from those people I figured out which particular committees do things around Um crime and the computer for abuse act. So that was the judiciary committees So I looked up who were on those committees And I I literally just sort of reached out to the offices Of the people who were on those committees and said, you know, I'd like to come and talk to you about security And what I found was when I sent these emails people were like, oh cyber security Yeah, that's totally a thing. We're looking at come in and talk to us And then I kind of got inundated with like can you talk about encryption? Can you talk about breach notification? Can you talk about this that and the other because they were actually crying out for people Who could talk about cyber security and was willing we're willing to give the time So there's real interest all you have to do is like do a little bit of research It is hard. I'm not trying to minimize it is it's daunting. I mean, there's also local government state town city Don't forget them. They need just as much information as the federal government If you don't want to work directly with government, there are a lot of other organizations that Work with government for you that you can work with for example The the bar association is trying to put together a framework for protecting security researchers So if you're a lawyer and you want to work on that you can I don't know contact me I guess but there's tons of things that you can do to get involved and help Be engaged. All right. So josh corbin's waggling his eyebrows at me So I'm gonna say I am the cavalry is another great way of getting involved They do a lot of work with policymakers and they can help keep you informed So, yeah, there are ways of so let's talk about something that is absolutely critical to our democracy Not that a lot of this isn't but the two the the 2020 election And whether or not the answer is not Our voting machines are secure. I went yesterday with jim To the I guess it was the voting village To get briefed and I learned not that you all don't know that that at least a third of voting machines The ones you push and that have no paper trail are totally vulnerable one third in this country one third And there are lots of efforts especially In you know from this audience To try to come up with some ideas that are affordable to election Districts and would add security How many of you I like this idea of show of hands if if even if not asked how many of you would like to work on this problem Well, that's pretty good jim. What do you what do you think? I think it's I think it's great And the the vulnerability in election systems does concern me and Especially when you're talking about Touchscreen technology without a hard copy paper Paper ballot. So this is an area where My experience of government kind of crosses a different a few different domains Certainly the interest in cyber, but I served as secretary of state in Rhode Island. I overhauled our election system I chaired a special legislative commission looking at different technologies and I could never get over the feeling that would have everything went south and and The somehow the data was lost and I've been thinking about hacking at the time How do you recreate the election and instead of going with with Touchscreens we went with an optical scan system. I think that's the the best model going forward But there are many locations that have already invested in this You know the the touch screen technology and they're not ready willing or able to transition over. That's why I think federal resources have to be provided To states and municipalities so that they can purchase that That new equipment, but surely engaging with the the security community is is important. It's essential And I can give a couple of examples by the way, which already happened. We are subscribes to just had an impact Not election focus, but this is on the was in our arrangement on NTA's multi stakeholder process on vulnerability disclosures and and also the FDA and their Pre and post market guidance and medical devices This is an area where we cyber researchers in this community have already had an impact by reaching out to your Your your legislators and and people in the policy world and you can help better inform us as we make good public policy So so one way to Make things better for example in the voting areas to simply make these machines Less susceptible to hacking the other way is to help pass laws that will mandate these private Companies to do the right thing So the house representatives on a bipartisan basis has passed two bills to us senate one is their hr1 for the people act has a number of election security measures in there And then we also pass this safe act focused just on election security It does simple things like require a paper trail Senator Mitch McConnell has refused to take those bills up for a vote And my view is that Abraham Lincoln had it right when he said that public sentiment is everything With it nothing can fail without it nothing can succeed So let's pause there what ted just said translated in simple sentences is the house has passed a couple of very strong bills And they are languaging in the united states senate How many of you live in places that have that have senators? And what should you now do? Call your senator to get what what are the numbers of these bills ted one is hr1 The other is called the safe act So I want you to understand your power to shape public sentiment So one way is for example what jane and jim just did yesterday and when and saw this Village where they're hacking voting machines Just letting the public know hey these things can be hacked or letting the press know and then it puts pressure Right on senators to start taking action just making the issue rise higher level in the public's awareness So understand your power to do that and if people start reading voices of hackers If they read people with expertise talking about these issues, I think that can help change public sentiment So we're almost out of time, but I did want to ask space rogue and jen now that you've heard some very I think positive suggestions from well-informed members of congress Whether you are optimistic that somehow this divide between the hacker community and This analog community called the united states congress not these members Can be breached and that you know what will you personally do after this little conversation? To help get everyone else involved Yeah, I'm I'm optimistic. I've been optimistic for the last 20 years And I think that's one of important lessons that I've had to learn and struggle with because you know as hackers We want things done now, right? Okay. I'm going to hack it. Okay. It's done Congress and government and the corporation I work for now doesn't work that way They do not work at the speed of hack And so it takes 20 years to go from hackers at congress to congress at def con And I'm still very optimistic. I'm very happy that you're all here And I am going to go forward and hopefully continue to encourage people to get involved and be engaged Last word jen. Yeah, I mean, obviously we would be up here for we're gonna be like, no I'm pessimistic a blow So yes, I'm also optimistic and I'm optimistic not just because we have The congressman here, but also because of the number of you who turn out to hear them And the number of you who put your hands up saying that you want to help shape policy in the right way Like that makes me really optimistic the thing that I would say You know just adding on to space's comment about time is also that The way that congress works is it's sort of an evolution and we all in the tech sector tend to live in a bit of a Binary world we can be a bit absolutist about things and I think if you're going to engage the thing to recognize is it's a process It's a journey. You'll make incremental progress. It won't be like one and done So try not to be too absolutist as you approach it What am I going to do? Well, I will say if anybody wants help in getting involved come find me I'm infosec jen. I'm always happy to help people and I will see you guys in dc in two weeks Great Jim and ted each has a A word and I'll I'll sign off before they speak by saying This is one community and it has to include Our political community that divide has to be crossed because if it's not crossed think what the consequences are So please help congress jim landgevin last word and then ted lu Thank you, jane. I really enjoyed the discussion and being on the panel today with these outstanding panelists And let me just close by saying this Um, if you take away nothing from the panel Discussion is that you can get involved and have an impact. I know it has to be frustrating That you know, you see a problem You just wanted to be fixed and do it immediately as Technologies often you can do that right a program picks the problem Unfortunately public policymaking doesn't always work that fast and it's too large great frustration There's many things if I were king for a day, I guess I would uh, I could fix it overnight But the policymaking process can be slow come to something difficult But I will say this when In making good public policy three things have to line up You have a problem a solution and a window of opportunity. They don't often wind up Lining up easily or quickly, but when they do you have to be willing to push it ready to push it across the finish line That's where you can come in. I would say right now Get in touch with your you member of congress house Your your your senator Know their staffs ping them once or twice a year. Let them know that you're there as a resource We've got incredibly smart people in our staff But they don't know everything and we can use more resources. We can use your expertise We welcome your input and your involvement can make a huge difference. Thank you 15 really smart Congressional staffers are at def con and they'll be here Through tomorrow so you can find them and they work for republicans and democrats across the country in senior jobs, so Be sure to lobby them ted the very last word. Thank you. So just two quick points Uh Now only can you assist the federal government? You can work on issues that will help consumers so for example, uh, jim landgearmen has introduced a bill on Notification for privacy breaches. You've had companies that have gotten breached They they had the customers information breach and then they didn't disclose it for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks And you had consumers that could have protected themselves So you can also work on issues not just affecting federal government but affecting americans in general and then let me conclude on this My view of politics is that everything seems impossible until it happens So of 10 years ago, I would tell you hey And 10 years we're going to have gay marriage in 50 states and in a number of them. We're going to be smoking weed I think I was crazy That's what's happening now. So you never know when public sentiment shifts and causes something to happen Thank you for being here on that note. Thank you all for coming