 like Fedora or other open source projects. So who are the ambassadors? So an ambassador is, we are like the voice of Fedora. We represent Fedora, we promote Fedora in different events across the world. So ambassadors are responsible so the public can know our four foundations and they have to know what Fedora is working. So we are putting people behind the name because when I say what Fedora is doing isn't Fedora who is doing all this but it's the people that are behind it, our community, outreach. So we are bringing Fedora into new and existing places for new and existing people. What else ambassadors are responsible to grow the community base? So we can have more people that can join Fedora, our community and contribute there. And also impacting future generation of users and contributors of all ages. And also advocacy, so what to do? We teach and show how Fedora improves the computing experience, sorry. And how makes our life easier. How protects our freedom. So we are Fedora. And so if you change the context a little bit there's also the program, the lesser known program of the campus ambassadors. So who are they? They mostly focus at outreach at an educational level looking at universities, high schools, primary school, a variety of different places. And campus does not necessarily equate to student. It can include professors, teachers, system administrators in school districts. It's not exclusively limited to only students. So the campus ambassadors also impact all kinds of students. Obviously computing professions are applicable. It's easy for you to point at a CS student or an IT student and be like, oh, here's how Fedora can help you. Or here's how you might be interested in Fedora. But there's also overlap with non-technical fields too. Whether it's literature, philosophy, sciences, mathematics, liberal arts, there's tons of different applications for how Fedora and open source can fit into students' lives that aren't necessarily technical. You can look at the science, like there's a science spin for Fedora that has a lot of really useful tools and open data tools for working on scientific experiments or other calculation tools. There's the design spin, there's the jam spin that all focus on things that aren't necessarily technical. So you can use it to produce music, to remix your own music, to create artwork, to create design assets. There's plenty of other ways that open source and Fedora can be used outside of only technical fields. And they also are supposed to work at all levels of teaching to bring information and resources about Fedora and open source technology into the daily discussion of students' lives. Sounds great, right? Well, it's not quite like that. Unfortunately, the program originally started in 2009, but it never really quite took off. It's a complicated history, and we want to try to revisit that now and offer some clarity to the situation about how to go forward and kind of reboot this effort. So looking back, if we see the origin story for campus ambassadors, it was really difficult for us to find some information, to gather some data of what was the, who were part of it or what have they done. Because the program does not have much of a documented past. So also it's not actively maintained today. But we have some numbers of events that they have done. It depends on different releases. But we can see why did this project started. So they wanted to improve outreach towards students that were exposed to open source project and Fedora. Also to put Fedora in hands of students today, so we can grow the platform tomorrow. Because if they are part now of the project and they continue to contribute there, there will be a long-term contributor to our project. So also bringing younger contributors to help bring new ideas to the Fedora project. So we can share our ideas. We can discuss about them. And after that, we can implement them. And what's worked and what didn't work. So as I said, we also contacted the person who founded it, Justin. But we haven't received any email from him. So it was really difficult for us to find some numbers. But we know. I have some input to that. I can say from India's specific point, back in 2009 when Campus Ambassador was getting discussed. And we suddenly got a flow of a lot of people or students who never even heard the word Fedora before. But all of them wanted to become Campus Ambassador so that they can write it in their resume. And it's still going on with the Ambassador program somewhat, but I'm just giving you an idea. So at that time, we actually asked Fransco for a special permission. So if you go to the Ambassador's joint page now, you will see for the India's part, it's written on the top that at least in India, we do not actively encourage students to become ambassadors. And that line came up because it has become difficult for us to have anything related to Fedora and the Campus Ambassador program. So that was one issue we faced in India. Just to add you, why it did not go ahead. And there are a few other projects we actually went ahead. I can actually name one of the projects, a company, Sun. And it did not go well for them. Thank you. Thank you. So if we see the numbers of events focused on students' education by Fedora this is, we can see Fedora 20, we have 11 events, Fedora 21, four, Fedora 22, two, and Fedora 23, we have only five events. Of course, it's more likely there were more events because for six months, we can't have only two events, for example. But it was really difficult to find a record of their events, that's why we need to show off what we do, we need to do blog posts, post it to our mailing list, and so we can find more information. And the numbers that we saw were searched from the event page on the weekly that we have, and also past recorded events that they've done. Could you give an example of what events this encompasses? Events held at different universities, showing them how they can be part of it, what will they do, how is the process, the structure of it. And one common form I see. Yeah, acupuncture one form. Anything that's specifically targeted towards like a student audience. So the hackathon is probably the easiest thing you can think of, or what that kind of event would be. Do you have some kind of like, a picture of the success of certain people coming at them, like how many are sticking around? We'll definitely get to that. So now, before we start looking into suggestions and ideas, let's kind of get like a set rep of what we're looking at right now. So the program exists, but there's no clear way about how it fits into the greater picture of overall ambassadors or really how even a student can go from being an ambassador to a campus ambassador. Because until just recently, it was a requirement that in order to be a campus ambassador, you first had to be a sponsored member as a regular ambassador. Until recently that was just changed, but even now it's still unclear about how to make that transition or what that even means. Like what's the difference really? So it needs more direction and focus. It needs some more energy behind it. So kind of the event strategy that's happening now, which really is more applicable to ambassadors rather than campus ambassadors. Conferences work well for bringing in a large variety of people, including students. And there's a great talk that just happened by Bee this morning about all kinds of crazy awesome numbers about looking at these kinds of things with the tools that we already have in our infrastructure like DataGrepper and other things I'll get to in a minute. It's also showing and teaching students what kind of things they can build with Fedora and how open source is a popular draw for them. So when we go to a hackathon, it's a matter of showing like a lot of times students are like, I want to build this thing. I want to do this. I want to make it happen. And you're like, well, here's these things that Fedora doesn't even have to be necessarily Fedora, but like here's this tech that happens to be available in our distribution. And here's how you could use this to make your idea come to life and become a reality. It also is exposing different places of Fedora and open source and how it's a draw. It's not all programming seriously. Like I mentioned earlier, there's the design lab, the jam lab, there's the science lab. There's tons of different things that aren't exclusively computing. And one last thing is it's also in some places it's really a popular idea to have the user freedom and empowering the student or the user about what they can do with their distribution, what they can do with their system. It's not a company being like, here's your environment and here's what you're locked into. Because that's what, as far as at least in the United States, that's kind of a little bit of the culture behind some of the teaching today. So it's like, sometimes it's a new idea for like someone to think like, oh wow, I can change everything. I can change the entire experience and create an entirely new thing. Whereas before I'd be stuck with what I'm given. And so there are a variety of really cool tools and utilities that we have right now that are really great for targeting students or local events that we put together like hackathons. Badges are absolutely incredible because they're a great way to first gauge impact at an event. So you go somewhere and you're like, oh yeah, we talked to this many people and there's many students came up to us and they took this many DVDs. But at the end of the day, you're like, I don't know what's happening to them. I don't know what's going on. But you have a number about, if they have a FAS account they can scan a QR code, go to a link and they instantly claim a bag that's added to their FAS account and you also have an indicator. You have what their FAS username is. So it's easy to gauge, like, oh, here's this person and you can take a number to see, like we engage with this many people that either took the time to make a FAS account and get the badge or they already had a FAS account. And maybe they're like, oh yeah, I signed up for one a long time ago and I think I still have it. I'll get the badge and they're still engaging with Fedora in that way. And it's also incredibly useful at saying previous and future involvement with the badges, like checking in, a report that was done on FOSDOM 14 and FOSDOM 15 by B also was looking at, like it was a month before a month after about contributor activity. If they had an account before FOSDOM, you were looking at what their activity levels were at and how they were engaging with the project and then you looked at it a month after the event. And in most cases you had an increased number or an increased amount of participation and interest following FOSDOM for the event. And before, until the three years ago when badges really took off, it would have been very difficult to be able to find a way to get that information. And that's all made possible by DataGrepper. So there's something behind DataGrepper. FedMessage is one of the messages buses that anytime we do anything in Fedora and all the notifications in the bots and the IRC channels that fire off, there's a mailing list post or a commit. FedMessage is the fire hose that's submitting all of that constantly. And DataGrepper is kind of like the nozzle to the hose. It lets you have a little bit more control to tune in on the specific amount of data, whether it's like IRC meeting, commits, packaging, bodied, you name it, it's more than likely on FedMessage and more things are getting on it too, like Zanada for translations is a recent one I know of and I don't know if Bugzilla's, I know it's done and if it's not implemented yet, it's very close to being implemented, which is something that previously and we never had access to in the FedMessage bus. And it's a very useful tool for understanding the way our contributors are interacting and engaging with the project. So looking ahead, what about the future? Our four main areas that we're going to look at now are onboarding, mentorship, not just students and visibility. So onboarding, if we look at onboarding, we need to have clear steps for students and faculty members, how they can get involved. So how can they be a part of the project? We need to have like the really clear one, so which is the first tab, the second one, like we have different teams, for example, you have to introduce yourself at the mailing list or you have to find a mentor for the process. So they need to be really clear and also bringing people in and connecting them. So if you are a new person joining the project, if, for example, I find also two other ones and also the others find two others, it will be like a chain and we will have a more bigger community. So also we should be really careful so the newcomers feel welcome and they feel confident at our community. So connecting the dots to make people feel involved and part of our community. Also providing them resources and interjections, they need, physical meetings are the perfect one, so meeting space, it's powerful because it's better when you discuss with someone face-to-face and talk with them. It's better than talking online on IRC. Also addressing mentorships and how to greet new students towards being Fedora advocates without creating hurdles. So we should use the word mentors or mentorship. Sometimes for the students, for example, if we say mentor, it's like you say teachers and we know the students don't like too much teachers. So it's kind of, we can choose also another word, it's up to us. So the process needs to be really simple. So we need not be a process really hard, so you need to have really lots of knowledges or lots of technical staffs. But if you know the basic things, you know how our community works, something like this, you can be part of it. And so the process would be simpler and easy for people to be there so they can be motivated to be part of the project. So mentorship. We have, so empowering current ambassadors, campus ambassadors that we have and students, so they can mentor each other. Because if you are new and after some time, you will know how the project works, how things are there. So after that, you will be able to teach those things to another one. That's why it would be way better than having mentors, for example, from our ambassadors' program that we have. And it would be way better to teach each other every time we have newcomers. So the standard training helps a right path for interesting participants that want to get involved. And so after they are trained, they can train also others if they have the right resources and guidance are available. So teaching to teach the others. Also we have, so similar to other programs, lightening qualifications on mentorship policy will be important for you to flourish. So perhaps we have mentorship and not mentor, as we said. Also we can find another thing. It's up to us. So also removing the title, the status or the title as the mentor and looking at mentorship as the mentor. And we need to have more people to bring it's our project. As I said, if you bring to others and the others we bring also other people would be way better for us. And so one of the other key things that can be addressed to is it's not just students for campus ambassadors. There's plenty of other people who are actively involved in the education scene that aren't just enrolled in courses or are students. There's instructors, there's professors, there's teachers, system administrators, there's other faculty members of numerous different educational facilities. Students aren't the only players here. And one of my favorite examples is actually another ambassador in North America and also an author for the Fedora Magazine, Charles Prophet. He is a system administrator in a local school district in Western New York. And one of the things that he's always been pushing for as a system admin is to use different free and open source tools behind the school's local infrastructure. I know there's a few that he was looking at for monitoring tools and he's slowly kind of breaking it in and spreading it out to other system administrators in the region. And it's a slow chain reaction. And one of his biggest challenges is trying to convince like the administrators about free and open source software. And the example he cited to me was there was a time where he was talking about trying to use like this new open source tool when his manager was like we will never use open source software the entire time that I am in this position. Exactly. So while he was holding back his last despite the fact that there were already open source software running everywhere. That's one of the challenges that you have to face in that position is lack of understanding or sometimes even not willing to understand. You have active resistance. So having resources and guidelines for the people in those situations who are like I'm stuck. I have these people who aren't going, they don't understand, they don't listen to any of this. Like I don't know what to do. I feel powerless. Like what control do I have? And there's other people in those situations that have experience like Charles for example who have done this and be like oh yeah this is how I broke it in slowly and surely I got this thing in and it led to another thing and I started teaching other people about open source software and our infrastructure and it started spreading. So things like one of the probably the easiest examples I could think of would be like creating a Fedora computer lab which could also be a faculty oriented guide but it could also be a student one too if a student wanted to be proactive and kind of igniting that effort. Maybe if it's for teachers specifically if it's teaching with open source and Fedora. Like I said all the other different things that's not just technical. You have the design, you have the games, the music. I mean there's tons of different spins that aren't exclusively related to technology and that teachers could use these to educate their students. And get them also exposed to open source tech and even Fedora. The other two examples kind of like the ones with Charles or would be like using open source and Fedora in your infrastructure or breaking down proprietary walls in your school. How do you do that? Like if you think about it you're like wow that's a huge thing, how am I gonna do that? But when you have something that's like you know here's advice, here's a step by step kind of walk through about how I get it in my region and when you have a community of support with other people who have done it it makes it a lot easier for you to be understanding how you can proceed with this in your own region. And it's like kind of like with bringing in two students it's like a chain of reaction. If you can start something and sure. One important question to ask is what is the end goal? There are two very different end goals that I see there. One would be of course being increasing Fedora's presence in school and computer labs versus an end goal that could specifically mean that means to an end of getting more students and more students who become involved with the Fedora project and those probably have different needs in order to drive that into those. So which one or both is the attempt to address and how are you focusing effort? For me like I see that as a matter of well it depends on the person. So like if you have a student then it's quite a little bit more oriented towards exposing other students to Fedora to open source but if it's like a fact. I mean from a strategic perspective for the ambassadors where should they be focusing their efforts? I mean are we going to throw funding and resources at every idea or are we going to say we really want to push on these ideas? I think that's kind of a question that's kind of already happening at least from what I've seen in FAMDA are the ambassadors of North America. I think there's starting to be some discussion because like a lot of like the traditional Linux events the ones that we've been going to for years and that were well known presence there. It's usually the same like not all the time but it's like a lot of times it's the same people that we're seeing at every conference or every event and or we're not having the impact that we think we might have. And there's another thing especially with like data grepper and badges we have access to this kind of forgetting to a point where we have easier access to this kind of metrics and evaluation about our impact. And the one thing that really kind of motivated me for this was in March we had BRICCAC at the Rochester Institute of Technology. And I remember that entire weekend like I was comparing versus like you know I read and studied up on a few other events happening before then and even years in the past about how they were doing with interaction and engagement and I don't know the kind of like energy that I kind of was picking up on at BRICCAC like I remember we had about 30 people scan our badge which was about attendance is roughly 260 people which was about one somewhere but it was like a it was a low percent it was under 5% but then you look at events like FOSDEM with that badge it has thousands of attendees and you had like 70 people scan the badge and it's even even smaller percentage. And so it's kind of it's not really quite apples to apples but I feel like the event that we had at BRICCAC while it wasn't as like broad amounts of people we were kind of zoning in to a specific amount of like a smaller subset of the population. And I feel like the impact we were having like the interest that was generated and even some of the contributions that happened later on with interest and introductions on mailing lists and people wanting to get involved just coming up to the Fedora table at BRICCAC. To me that was kind of the idea that maybe there's this beginning of a trend that where we're focusing and it's maybe this is a part of a bigger discussion than just this one but it may be considering where we're addressing our resources to and measuring the impact we're having. Right, well I'm not sure any of that actually answered the question I was asking which was what is the end goal you're trying to hit and I mean it sounds like you're kind of circling around the idea that the end goal is increasing contributing contributors. I think then but just put it simple I think it's just increasing the number of people exposed and using Fedora and then on this. But again exposure to usage of Fedora is interesting but not as valuable as exposure in such a way that is providing a path to contribution which has a net positive effect on the core. Right. If I can, I think that's what we've been doing for the last 10 years and we've got I think a really good contributor base on the other hand it was always like the end goal was to have the contributors and we got into the situation that we've got contributors that you know build something that I wouldn't say no one is using but you know compared to like for example Ubuntu there is a huge disproportion. So for me right now we should definitely go after the awareness. I mean we shouldn't be less focused on you know getting contributors but what we like right now is the awareness users and stuff like that. That demands reason to reason basis. Like yes this is true that most of the students they know about Ubuntu or like not even Ubuntu in this case for their laptop opening system in this case desktop but when it comes about actually using that opening system to do something which is useful for their courses that's where the contribution comes from because after doing first aid they can become contributors to some project may not be federal but something which is inside the federal lab that some project or some desktop application. So like and again I'm speaking only from the India's point of view how we went up the number of people having FAS account and then a huge drop 2009 effort from a lot of Indian contributors and then making sure that we did awareness parties anyway happening like at least in India I can say or apathism but our main target is and it was also that to get more contributors because that's where we are lacking not the awareness part. So I think it's much more depending on the area or the region where you are talking about. No what do you say is correct but I believe it's much more about region. And the last part we were looking at was also visibility. So this can extend to current as well as moving forward creating possibly different guidelines but establishing a commons for the campus ambassadors will be important even if I know there's a few other examples of people using other platforms but mailing lists and IRC have their role for log participation in meetings and keeping the project open but perhaps there's other things we can do to improve the contributor experience and a lot of that is things we've already seen. We have mailman with a mailman three with Hyperkitty which is bringing in an entirely new front end to the mailing lists and one of my favorites is Fedora Hubs which will revolutionize the contributor experience but I really am really excited about Fedora Hubs. It's an incredible project that's bringing in all kinds of different places and bringing in these different things and these different factors of the contributor experience and tying them into a single place and I'm really excited for that because I think it's going to bring in a new kind of maybe a new kind of contributor different kinds of contributions but it's going to make it I think Fedora a more accessible project I think things like Fedora Hubs like this is the right direction for me to improve our own visibility and our own outreach for students and at the end of the day however it's done the work that's happening needs to be seen and easily referenced. Reports are important of course and documenting success is absolutely important so that way you can replicate it in other places and you can see, learn by example. The current method right now is not the most efficient and there's other platforms are there other platforms for communication that we could be using? Outside of just venture reports even on like a blog or are there better tools? Could we utilize social media better in ways for this to engage with a younger audience to bring more people in? What other ideas could we bring to the table for this? And we kind of intentionally left this a little bit more open-ended at the end to kind of see some other people's thoughts in the audience are but for that, if you want to get involved with any of this or throw out some of your own ideas there's the IRC channel Fedora Campus AMB and there's also our mailing list, Campus Ambassadors and a quick special shout out to Ardian Haxa for helping us prepare this talk. He's trying to make it a flock but it didn't work out for him but special thanks to Ardian for helping us and I was wanting to kind of see if anyone else in the audience had ideas especially going forward with the bringing in new kinds of contributors like on the kind of topic of like Fedora Hubs and so just because I didn't quite get the closure I wanted on that what I was looking for was really you talked about how well, we'll target some students here and we'll target assessment administrators here in fact, we'll be here what I was hoping to hear was that the specific goal of doing those things was to eventually convert students into participants at least and contributors at best I think it's kind of the subset of the general outreach though like I mean with, sorry but we have limited resources and I don't just mean money or material but time and people and so making sure that whatever you're doing has the most impact is important and I'd be a little concerned if we spend a lot of time producing material on how to build a computer lab that gets used twice versus I think there's a lot more to be said about material to teach a teacher to teach open source I think that has, I would have a huge return on that to use business terms but keeping in mind the end goal is always really important in making those decisions so a lot of the slides you talked about things that we need so like materials for onboarding people who are interested in becoming camps and masters steps to have people who are involved in campuses not necessarily just students or other like the one, two, three process those kind of thing is there any of that existing or is that still yet to be accomplished? Are any of those materials at least in draft format somewhere such that people can start iterating on them or contributing to them or is it still just like starting ground zero? I think it's quite a start from ground zero because we do have like the existing steps for becoming an ambassador there's a series of wiki pages you followed through but they're not exactly a they're not saying to speed through it but it's not something you can look at and be like okay here's the things I need to do you have six different wiki pages that have a long large amount of content so there is content there but it's nothing that's easily it's something that's not like to the point and succinct where somebody can get an idea here's the steps I need to follow here's what I need to do but specifically to the campus I don't want to like the ambassador to jump I think that's a very fulfilling specifically to this campus outreach there's currently no materials there's nothing that we can easily find there's the wiki page that exists for it and I have tried to I attempted a rewrite of it with some more clear guidelines it kind of stagnated a little bit with there was going to be a fad last month in Raleigh for looking specifically at education I think with the causes departure it kind of mixed things up a little bit but I think that's something that's still on the table because that was one that I know Spott was going he had some wanted to collaborate on for that and I think it's something that's in the interest of the project to kind of look at that again and so was the goal of that fad and or this session to kind of kick off those types of discussions to get this going? Yes, and I think having also a Fedora community leave would also contribute to helping that happen with like the rebooting the fad idea too but it's as far as like current resources go it's mostly just the same the same wiki page we've had since more or less 2009 so for specific content it might be out there but from when I was trying to dig through and find it I couldn't find anything incredibly useful We need to go down Outside the campus ambassador term or Fedora wiki page like we from India like we run a regular annual IRC based training where the idea is to move people from normal users to contributors and it's 90 year running so we have material ready mostly with logs and questions open questions from students and stuff which actually help us to produce almost all of the like except a few people almost everyone else from India and nearby region actually went through that training so we have two things ready can be used Instead of trying for example for Fedora to be a little bit more focused for some things for example Fedora to go for all developers focus on Fedora from Python and Fedora you thought as well for university outreach thinking out of there is a little bit more to focus on reach you can say that it's all university which includes so many different things perhaps start with a little focus group to help So one of the targets for the Fed one of the things like the beginning steps to do this was we wanted to identify at least two ambassador or two student ambassadors from every region in the world to have at least a minimum of six or it was either six or 12 but to have a minimum of like this number of people who are bought in to be like the first era of campus ambassadors these were the resources they wanted to develop at the FAD and to get created and then with these resources we trained the first kind of era of and from my understanding of what the plans were it was kind of mirroring a little bit from programs like I guess kind of like Mozilla's student ambassador program in a way where it's a little bit less I guess like comparing the two like between like Fedora's campus ambassadors as is and like Mozilla's program is it's a little bit like I think of like Mozilla's program as a little bit more like stepping like stepping like stairs and you're slowly doing more and more over time whereas there's kind of like I think a high like a high barrier for you to kind of really get going and involved with campus ambassadors and so I think that was kind of the original plan was to start small and to target at least like find two and two or three students from every region of the world and work with them on a very personal level to help train them up and provide them with specific resources and target their specific needs and then go forward from that and start working on training more with the two or three ambassadors from each region and going forward from there so I think that's kind of the direction that they wanted to go in in the beginning We are very keen on getting everybody to be a hacker but people don't really know what cool things they can do with Fedora and people don't know that Fedora is this operating system for the robotics world competition or something like that so saying these things to them and marketing those ideas they could be a part of making Fedora more widespread I think you can talk about what you can do with Fedora and what Fedora does for you Is there anything to go of Fedora and Affiliate? What was the... No, you could sign up and be on the list of companies, organizations that are Affiliate in Fedora and then you can state like we are using Fedora for this and this purpose and we carried it with the help of Fedora I think there was some... The Affiliate's discussion, yeah or Friends of Fedora Yeah, that's an ongoing discussion in marketing right now or kind of stabbing it a little bit but definitely Okay, so now I might sound a little bad what I will say now so I'm sorry before but since I have heard about ambassadors, campus, staff I was always interested I'm very active on our university I teach there, I was a student until recently and I'm an ambassador but I have zero clue what shall I do as a campus ambassador or whatever my activities show me and it's an IT university so creating a Fedora lab is nonsense it doesn't make any sense for those guys to have a Fedora lab because everybody has their own computer and stuff and I signed up for something somewhere on the wiki now there is a mailing list and I don't even know about it and I thought this talk will give me some insight about what shall I do but I still have zero knowledge as there is something when you say we, do you and the third person or is it like a larger group is there any activity happening I can join to be in the picture or is it still like walking in the dark and we just want something but we don't really want what's the target as we've seen for it feels so like a nice idea but nothing to touch sorry for being hurt No, that's perfectly fine so I think that is really like the key question about the action items what to go from here and I think that this is definitely something that was kind of on the verge of happening and until a few weeks or really a few weeks ago I was really looking forward to that fad happening and I was hoping to really have resources available so I think right now the current thing would be to have bring those plans back and I think having a Fedora community would be one thing that would help with that doesn't have to necessarily be the fix all solution but I really would like to bring this make this fad a reality again and bring it back on the discussion table because I think having the in-person collaboration and focusing on like creating the beginning resources or discussing how to go about that and making a final or making something deliverable to people like regular ambassadors who are interested in this and they want to participate having those resources is a huge thing because that's what's going to really start making this happen and that. How do we do that? How do we do what? Sorry. How do we, so there was a fad that was supposed to happen and then Remy left how do we make that happen again like it was supposed to and give you one ball? Was there budget for that fad? It was going to be a local one to Raleigh, no budget. Let's do it. Bring it up to the council. I think that's the next step. The goal of it is local, no budget needed. We need somebody on the ground in. So I think I could probably go and take an action to bring that back on to the council ticket too and help bring some direction to that. That would be great. Sorry, I wasn't paying attention earlier. Seems like it was a delay. Yeah. Yes. Looking back at what Stephen said earlier, I wanted to point out that it's really important to see if this is going to work out. I mean, it would be pointless to reach out to the investors to set up the labs and then no one is going to use them. So I believe that the Focal Team is going to play a very important role in this. I mean, we need teachers, we need professors who will be very motivated, very passionate about this, that can cooperate with us with the DER community to make this happen. And if we manage to do that, okay, first of all, we need to focus on specific universities. We should not just get Kamusavastos everywhere and try to reach out to random universities. We need to focus on specific universities where we have contacts with the Focal Team and we need to make sure that they can help us. And if we succeed in doing that, not only the students will start using Fedora in their labs, but students is a very important target group and we're probably going to get lots of time as contributors. And that was one thing that we did create a few months ago. Maybe one or two as we had a kind of like a roll call for people interested in doing that. I know a few of you in the room who have asked questions have you added your names to that list too on the university involvement initiative page. And so we kind of have a query of the people who are interested to help drive this forward too. So it's information we have available. I think we had at least, with the exception of a couple, I think one or two regions, I guess, well, it probably could use better communication is really what it comes down to. But we do have at least a few people across a few different regions who are actively interested in paying attention to this or who are ready to be provided with resources and guidance to how they can proceed with going forward with this. Sylvia? I have a question. Because I assume many universities in my country in the world, but as in Washington, and as in Thailand and Brazil, that when you talk to the professor or the teachers, they say, no, no, but forget about links, forget about, forget about, because it's not used in professional arguments. You want to learn something useful. You need to learn something that works and that you will use in your future job. Is that the way in universities in the U.S. that the teacher, like a couple of times, happened to me that someone said, oh, yes, that's very nice, works very well, but not now because you won't use this in your work. You need to learn these other videos or whatever, because this is the useful thing because where you're going to be asked this in the house, that happens in the U.S., in the U.S., actually. When you see that. I have a little bit of an answer to that at least, which is I have worked at universities in the U.S., so I've seen a little bit of that, but I guess most U.S. universities are more focused on theoretical, so it doesn't matter so much which thing it is unless I'll make hands-on thing like that, but even on that hands-on, a pretty good response is that Fedora is the upstream of Reddit and Reslinux, which is the number one Linux for serious jobs that you can get, and if you have Fedora knowledge that will translate very well to knowledge in a job in the future, and if you're looking for a job in the future after you're done with your education, starting on Fedora will put you in a great and good place to be right timing the new technology when that comes through the downstream filters, so that's an answer to what you can tell people back, but I don't know how to solution for. No, no, and then ask really for a solution, it was more like that was the dynamic university in the U.S., or if it was different, because that... I think it is different because of the different focus on hands-on skill versus abstract things that are in places where they're still teaching on Shure64 Units or whatever that they happen to have, and it's all the same, it's Unix, so are they teaching out of a book, it doesn't matter what computer you're using. We're down to the last three minutes, so we can have time for maybe two more questions. What are those? One question that I have, and maybe this is covered by my own experiences with academia, do we have an answer to the question of why should a professor care whether or not their students are using open source? Why should they bother putting forth this effort? I heard the question of how do we find these people, but I have had conversations with academics before where the question basically comes down to what's in it for them. Do we have an answer to that? I think right now, at least in the immediate sense, that would probably be a good thing to address in the beginning, I think it would probably start with people who like the professors who already have that intrinsic interest, like some of the people who are here right now, people who are in the teaching field, starting with people who have that intrinsic interest to teach it and to spread it. I think that would be where we probably have to start with. I don't know if I have a good answer for that, as far as where to go beyond that, but I think that would be something that would be a very good thing to bring into discussion too, so we don't have to depend on people who happen to like open source in Fedora and are also a professor, is going beyond that too, like if it's a student going to a professor, trying to convince the professor or the faculty member that this is important for, oh yeah, this would be a good thing to bring in and to use. I know my university is very much a window shop. If you want to do something that's not windows, you will have an up mountain battle, so. And I don't, I think that, I don't know if we're the exception or the rule or either, right, but those places do exist where the problem isn't going to be with faculty members, it's convincing them to start fighting that battle with my team. Right. There's this program called Posse, the professor's open source software experience, and I just Googled around for it and it looks like it kind of puttered out a couple of years ago, but I was involved with it at RIT and it looks like it happened at a bunch of other universities and it was an awesome boot camp where we sat down and I had two professors next to me and by the end of the day, we had two patches submitted upstream and it seemed like a really valuable program, but the old PC was the vehicle for the teaching at the time and I don't know if we have something like that that we can just bring to a bunch of professors So, it actually died down with the breaking down of community architecture team from Red Hat, but one of those persons was Haris Midlai, he's from Red Hat in Singapore and he's actually speaking about the same process stuff I know in a pack in a few universities because we receive emails that he's trying to get a few of the office subscribers to go to the colleges and do the similar process stuff to continue the same thing. It was a very good example of how to reach the teachers and I have two more inputs for you in general but I want to say that after you turn off the video recording. Is it possible to give students involved by writing thesis? Because that's very, very popular in Pernault and we have a number of universities around the Red Hat office and they have a lot of activities like they have two weeks when students can come and meet Red Haters There are a lot of Red Hat people who work for Fedora so wouldn't they work with the students and keep them some tasks and so we could count whether they're going to be able to write new thesis for Fedora I think that's not entirely possible It was obviously something I hadn't considered but seeing as there's already kind of like a beginning interest there or there's something to kind of go off of to begin with I definitely think that's something that's probably worth considering at the get-go or having a focus on for like graduate students and beyond We are out of time for this session I don't know if anyone else there's nothing else after this so I'd be okay with sticking around I think there are lots of things to discuss Yeah, that's all right Thank you Thank you If you just turn off the video