 If you've already created the content, it doesn't take that much longer to put it in Spanish and create an environment that they feel comfortable in, right? And so what we saw is that there are so many manufacturers that aren't creating an environment that is inviting and authentic, and so they're searching out ones that do, right? So they are going to have the head start with this consumer. Welcome to the Smarter Building Materials Marketing Podcast, helping you find better ways to grow leads, sales, and outperform your competition. All right, everybody. Welcome to Smarter Building Materials Marketing, where we believe your online presence should be your best salesperson. I am Zach Williams, alongside my co-host, Beth Papnikilov, and today we're talking about, gosh, everything from marketing to Hispanic contractors, how you should be targeting the channel. We've got an awesome show lined up for you. We are really excited to welcome Kevin Kilpatrick. He is the chief marketing officer of Blue Lumber and an absolute expert at knowing your customer, targeting them well. He's been in our industry for quite a while, and we're very excited to have him on the show. Kevin, thanks for spending time with us today. Awesome. I appreciate the invite, guys. I've been listening to you guys for a long time now, so you've been kind of hopping along on my workouts for about a year and a half now. So glad to be on this side of the microphone. We are, too. Before we jump in, Kevin, would you mind spending some time, introduce yourself to our listeners, tell them a little about you and what you do. Sure. So currently, chief marketing officer at Blue Lake Lumber, like you had mentioned earlier, but just got here like weeks ago. So before that, I've really been chasing this residential remodeler for about 20 years now. So I grew up in the agency world in Dallas and then jumped client side to Home Depot as director of marketing at Home Depot for a couple of years and then started my own media company. And this media company was primarily targeted against Hispanic pros and how we target primarily him and get him to drive sales with Hispanic, and then we kind of grew into the general market. And then spent the last couple of years at Lowe's and kind of saw the world through that lens. And like I said, just like three weeks ago, I jumped over to Blue Lake. Kevin, one thing I'm really interested to hear your perspective on is we're talking in advance of the show is your process for marketing. Marketing has like this very like, hey, we have goals, we have objectives and things like that. But oftentimes we don't get to the nitty gritty of like how do you actually get things done and do it in a way that is measurable, that is effective, that meets our audience where they where they need to be, as well as positions the brand the right way. So I'd love for our listeners to hear from you about your perspective and your process of how you approach marketing and the results that you're seeing from that. Yeah, sure. I pretty much use the basic formula for the last five years or so. And it's kind of a six step process. And I'll just kind of kind of walk you through those steps if you want. And we can kind of take the conversation from there. So because this the same process is it works for like big company positioning and as you're positioning your brand down to product launches or a grand opening or what have you. So you just kind of abbreviate some steps. But I think it's important to kind of think through each of the six steps. And and quite honestly, it's it's not till step six is when you actually pull the trigger and you start brainstorming and advertising. It's just the other five steps are to get you there. First of all, you got to know where you're going. And so you always got to set a goal out there. And generally it's a revenue goal, but it can be an awareness goal. It could be, you know, a conversion goal. It could be a lot of things, but most of the time it's revenue. But you got to that's one number one. And a lot of people skip that and just kind of start digging in and don't realize kind of where the true North is. So kind of real quickly, Kevin, when you say revenue goal, do you mean like marketing attributed revenue or like what's the company revenue that you're trying to so I like to try to drill down to what we can control. So it's it's the marketing driven as much as we can. Right. So and what I've had the most like doing is being collaborative with the leadership teams of different organizations and and making sure they're buying in. We know where true North is. We know what the goal is that we're we're working against. And that's how we're going to be measured as a success or not. That's great. Sorry to interrupt you. Go go ahead. Yeah, no worries. So the second one is once you got to your revenue goal is understanding the customer and and that's probably the second most important step is really understanding who you're targeting. So, you know, it's all the buzzwords, the customer journeys and the personas, the demographics, psychographics. But that's where, especially in the building materials area, digging in and finding out exactly who your end customer is. And for me, like I said, it's residential remodeler. So it's a large percentage of Hispanic pros out there in the market. So right now, the department, according to Department of Labor, it's like 27 percent of the total market is preferred Spanish, right? And it is a native's identifies themselves as a Hispanic person. And so, you know, you look around the the industry and not a lot of folks are going after that segment. I think that's really a failure of not knowing your customer at the end of the day. So it's not drilling in and really investing time and energy, finding out who that end customer is. So from the Hispanic side, I mean, it's, you know, because once you understand their social media habits are different. So the platforms that they use are different. They are much higher users of social media than the general market contractor. We see their the platforms they use are a little bit different. We know how they learn is different, like what what mediums, like when you're giving instruction manuals or videos, a lot of folks get kind of get a high level. They understand that, OK, a lot of research comes back and that the the probe will say, yeah, I speak Spanish and English on the job site. So they're like, OK, check, I'm good. I'm just going to do English and we covered everything. But if you put yourselves in their shoes and you dig deeper in the research, it's like when you're trying to understand how to install something or the mechanics or something, you want that to be in your native language so you can fully comprehend that. So you might be able to communicate on the job site in English, but to really understand it, you need your native language, which is primarily Spanish or we see some Portuguese, but it's primarily Spanish out there. So that's where that knowing your customer, the building material industry and especially the Hispanic pro, as we call it, is critical. So that's number two. The three step is once you got your goal, you understand completely your customer is your positioning, right? And understanding the landscape and where all of your competitors stand and then where you can carve out space for your own and be very differentiated in the market. So, you know, laying right on top of other competitors is always tough and it makes your spend and your time and energy go up to try to differentiate from your competitive set. So really understanding the positioning in the marketplace is critical. Fourth step is aligning sales and marketing. And so many times these the two different organizations are on two different paths. And I'm a firm believer that marketing has to support sales, right? So a lot of times there's some turf wars and there's back and forth. But I think that if we as marketers aren't making that phone ring or aren't providing those leads or explaining and walking the sales team through on how to use HubSpot, for example, it's a process we're going through right now and how to activate that and the automated and how that plays a role, then that's a failure on the marketing side, right? So I think you have to align the leadership teams on sales and marketing, but everybody has to understand where you're going. So and you can tell the organizations where it's two different paths, right? You can just walk down the trade shows and IBS or whatever and you can see, OK, they're not talking, right? I mean, what they're selling and what they're actually are two different things. Can you give me an example of what you would see at a booth that would tell you, oh, those sales and marketing teams are not friends versus the and like the opposite. What are key indicators that they're well aligned? Yeah. So I think and without naming names, of course, I've seen it in the window category and then doors sometimes. So it's it's where the the marketing team is talking about the look and the feel and the creative and then selling the end dream and what it looks like at the end of the day. But technical sale, it's very, hey, listen, we got to get in there. We got to talk about specifically the materials that's there that differentiates us and specifically the details. Again, it's very divergent and not not aligned. And I think the companies that are aligned and do work, I think it's they're singing off the same hymnal, right? They understand because I think the salespeople have been brought along on this journey so far, so they understand the personas of the customer. They understand the journey, they understand the pain points that that the customer has before they get to it. And they understand the kind of the sale cycle right along with the marketer. So it's like, you know what, we're you're building a deck and and a DIY person that's building a deck to kind of building their own deck. It's almost a 14 month process from when they have the idea to investigating when they're when they're purchasing and what they're going to purchase and what kind of lumber they're going to purchase or these fantastic tropical hardwoods to make your deck look great and the installation and then on down. So it's like a 14 month kind of sale cycle when you're contacting us, when you're marketing to a contractor, it's like a three week sale cycle, right? I mean, it's like, bam, bam, I got it. I'm putting up six of these things this month, right? And I got to just get going. It's a whole different are you in stock? If you had the specific million requirements and then that's what they're looking for. It's like that whole selling the dream is is out the window. I mean, these guys want I need it right now. I already know what I want. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. I've got seven questions based on the things you've already said. Keep going. OK, so there's two more. So we've got set the goal. We understand our consumer positioning. We're hand in hand with the sales teams. We are moving in the right direction. I think then the next step is kind of trying to figure out your cadence internally for your planning and responsibilities. So a lot of times when you have an agency that you're working with or you have you're doing everything in house is making sure everybody understands on the team what their role and the responsibilities are. And we're focused on the campaign. So whether it's getting ready for IBS, it's who's in charge of the booth, who's in charge of the collateral, who's making sure everybody knows at the end of the day what it is or the bigger campaigns. And you have enough resources. Sometimes your appetite is bigger than you have resources to to execute against. Right. So then before you start advertising, you got to make sure it's let's pull in some additional some folks to help us out. So that's important. It's kind of getting everybody accountable and understanding who's going to do what. And then number six is that's when you start the advertising. That's when you create the creative brief, the strategy brief. Everybody get away on the same team. And then we start kind of doing the fun stuff in the marketing. But, you know, I think people outside the industry or marketing industry, whether whatever field, they just jump straight to step six, right? And they start doing the advertising. That's the fun part. Where the heck are we going here? Here's a brochure. Here's some pictures. Right. Yeah. Right. So again, so I personally use that process for the bigger the bigger planning as well as the small grand openings or new product launches. I love that. If I could go back to you talking about knowing your customer. I love the call out that you have about creating content and targeting the Hispanic customer base. I'd love to hear your opinion on how manufacturers can do that in a way that offers authentic customer support to the Hispanic customer base, simply offering installation information in English and Spanish is not authentic customer service for a significant portion of your customer base. So can you talk a little bit about your experience of building out an authentic presence amongst that target demographic? And that's when we had the name of the media platform was Constragia Aldia. So the up-to-date construction guide and it was a hundred percent in Spanish and we started as a magazine and we kind of tripped it into video and social and digital and everything else and really watched trends closely. We can tell you we worked with over 200 different manufacturers on this process and then targeting this consumer. Right. So it is like I said, there's there's some intricacies on how they differ in the media habits or how they learn. And then being authentic to your point is so many times we had clients and we would advise against this, but they would run an ad with us or buy some media with us and it would be in Spanish and it would look pretty and you'd hit that link and you go to their site and it's in English. I could see it coming. I could feel it. So you're inviting them to the party in Spanish and then you're like it's everything's in English. It's easy enough to I mean, it's an extra step and it's an extra expense, but to translate the videos into Spanish and have your own YouTube channel in Spanish to have your your your manuals are downloadable in Spanish and every touch point needs to be in both languages from the from the original ad or the digital ad all the way through their journey and learning about you. The YouTube videos. It's easy enough to translate the the downloadable information, the white papers. You've already created the content. It doesn't take that much longer to to to put it in Spanish and and create an environment that they feel comfortable in. Right. And so what we saw is that there are so many manufacturers that aren't creating a an environment that is inviting and authentic. And so they're they're searching out ones that do right. So that they are going to have the the head start with this consumer. I have like a million questions about this as well. Kevin because I think you know looking at the individuals where you know they're Hispanic and Spanish is their first language. Are you not only it sounds like you're not only you know drawing them in because you're prioritizing them as individuals and you're trying to hear them out. But you mentioned earlier on about their specific habits like what they're doing on social media. What you know what their online habits look like. Can you speak to that a little bit like how how are they different than let's say contractors that we you know that are not Hispanic. Yeah. So I think there's there's two primary things that jump right off the page at the first is that the Hispanic pro is hesitant to give their information away. So email campaigns all of that. So everybody's like oh it's immigrated immigration related. And that's why no no it's just culturally the Hispanic community just doesn't give their information away. Right. And so it has nothing to do with immigration. But your email campaigns you're not going to see them go in and volunteer and give you an email for your automation. Right. So so what will they volunteer for. Is there anything they will volunteer for. Like are they open SMS or they open other things. They will do some SMS. However social media is the way off the charts. Right. And so we saw social media particularly Facebook. And I know and you know and contractors and in general we see the whole it's kind of a generational thing as far as Instagram and Facebook and we've seen that the big boxes as well as the my company is where we were else is that these guys are primarily on Facebook. You can catch about 98 percent of them on on Facebook and Instagram is kind of a distant number two. But we see their usage and in particularly in the groups for the Hispanic consumer. And I think it's just a human nature. I mean these guys are alone on a job site. Right. And you think about you're in a country you don't speak the language as well or not. But you you crave this contact in this this companionship in this community. And so these Facebook groups we saw a lot of we would just put them up and they just take off. I mean they're showing each other pictures. They're asking questions. I mean it's just phenomenal. You've got specific Facebook groups just for Hispanic pros. So it's not like hey we're we're reposting the same thing in English and Spanish. You've got Hispanic only group. Absolutely. OK. So we just saw the groups in the primarily work better. So and then I know Beth I listened to your your podcast a couple weeks ago on on TikTok and and that taking off. And and I tell you we I fought that fought that and thought I was like you know what the contractor the 53 year old guy average contractor. He's not on TikTok. You can't convince me he's on TikTok. Yes. I am so completely wrong. So Kevin if it makes you feel any better. I had that exact conversation with Zach like three years ago when TikTok was launched. He asked me I'll never live this down. We were in an Uber at a building materials conference and he's like what do you think about building materials for TikTok. And I was like unequivocal. No pause. I was like no don't be ridiculous. We have no business on there. That's not going to last. Wrong. Wrong. And all accounts Beth. So wrong. I in my last gig at Lowe's. I mean the head guy on the merchandising side. But in Lowe's pro was like hey we need to check out TikTok. And I was I mean it was hours me fighting again. I was like listen it's not it's not happening whether it's Hispanic or not Hispanic. These guys aren't there. I am completely wrong. You mentioned right before a podcast we were talking just prepping about the Hispanic customer base. And you mentioned specifically Masonry has a almost like 50% Hispanic customer base versus English native language speaking. There is one of my favorite TikTok accounts is called viral builders. And one of their videos is a Hispanic man doing a Masonry install and he's just scooping the mortar, tamping it down, scooping the mortar, tamping it down. That's the whole video. It has hundreds and hundreds if not thousands and thousands of views. It's fascinating. Like that's it. It's somebody on their phone. We were wrong Kevin. I'm glad we were wrong though. I'm sure. I mean and I've gone down those rabbit holes as well. And you start watching TikTok and where does that hour go? You know, but it's I think contractors are humans too and they get lost and an entertainment but you know that you start seeing the postings and you start seeing them showing off their work and then influencers. I mean it's it's growing. I mean I don't have as much experience with the Hispanic pro and TikTok. We've got to put some studies to that. But we know contractors in general the general marketers. It's definitely there. Is there any manufacturers out there Kevin that you look at and go, Hey, these guys are doing it really well when it comes to targeting the Hispanic pro? Yeah. Mekita has down really is and they've been doing it for a long time. They really invested and have stuck to it. And so Mekita is getting a lot of market share. We're seeing the DeWalt is starting to do some smart stuff. And then the paint companies and because you think that the painters kind of over index and it's like, you know, almost 60% of professional painters are considered themselves Hispanic. So Sherwin Williams is doing some really smart stuff. So they're there. And then I think the big boxes know how to play in that space as well. And they're really trying to to even do better. But they're both doing great. It's funny you mentioned Facebook. I was looking at GF's Facebook account a month or two ago. And they have a series where they bring on a Hispanic pro in like the roofing space to share about their business or share techniques. And the entire webinar, like the entire thing, it's like two guys, two or three guys. It's entirely in Spanish. It's like right on their page and like it's weekly or whatever it is. I was like, man, that's I mean, it's not a lot of work, but it's really smart. So if you're a Hispanic pro and and you're looking for content and GF has it, like, who are you going to prefer? Yeah. And you know, and then the roofing industry, you know, I mean, as a whole, yeah, it's the majority of the business owners and the laborers are Spanish speakers. That's great. So Kevin, for any manufacturers listening listening to this podcast, they're like, Hey, you know, really value your insight about process and valued your insight about how to market to the Hispanic pro. You know, if you gave them one piece of advice for them to be more effective this next year, what would you tell them? So I think it truly goes back to what Beth said earlier is being authentic, right? So you just got to step back and you got to think about as as a user of the product, take yourself out and just pretend they're speaking Polish and talk of you are speaking something else. How would you want to learn about that? Right. And really look at every touch point and then really understanding and dig in from a consumer research standpoint and what percentage of your your customers are speaking Spanish and prefer Spanish to learn. And then if it's a large percentage, and I think you have to be authentic and every touch point you need to address. It's great. Kevin, for our listeners, if they want to get in contact with you, what's the best way for them to do that? Yep. So I'm on LinkedIn. So you can find me there as well as email is Kevin dot kill Patrick at Blue Lake lumber.com. It's awesome. Kevin, this has been awesome. Thank you so, so much for coming on the show. I love your background, your insight and your encouragement to everybody because I mean, we hear, you know, manufacturers all the time are like, oh, should we translate into Spanish? And we're like, yes, you absolutely should. But it's like, it's a lot of people. It feels like a big daunting task that is more work that they've got to translate and they're committing to something. But what they really are is not just coming to the work, but they're committing to their customer, you know, and so really appreciate your help. And for our listeners, if you enjoyed this podcast, make sure you check out then view dot com slash podcast to subscribe to get more. Until next time, I'm Zach Williams, alongside Beth Love. Thanks everybody.