 So John and Paul are sticking around. The steering committee, with the help of the nominating committee, which consisted of Deanna Markham, Carla Hayden, Dr. Hayden, me, the Archivist of the United States, David Ferriero, and Mackenzie Smith, University Librarian at UC Davis, we helped get a board slate together. And the steering committee chose this board recently. Paul Carant, John Palfrey. Now we will be joined by Laura DeBonus. And Kathy Casserly, please come up on stage and join us. Luis Herrera, the Librarian of the San Francisco Public Library, is the fifth member of the board. He couldn't join us today, but actually is joining us by video later, right? A little bit afterwards, OK. In the meantime, we'd like to ask each of the board members, why don't we start with Mr. Carant, because I know he has to leave us soon, to just introduce themselves, talk a little bit about why they agreed to serve on the board of DPLA, just let people get to know you a little bit if they don't. Paul? OK, hi, everybody. It's a pleasure and honor to be here. And why did I agree to be on this board? That's a very good question. Because, as the song says, this could be the start of something big. Actually, the start was the conference that Bob convened two years ago, which has led to all this. But we were pretty unclear two years ago, except for that wonderful statement, what this was. And it turns out, and I think this is fascinating, that the opening part of this is bringing together of the local parts of our own history and self as a country. That wasn't clear that that was going to be the opening part. It's terrific that that's what it is. The diversity of our country, the similarities and differences across local notions of what's important, bourbon, ice. Interesting that those were the two things that we have. Ha, I think there's a possibility of unity here. Are just exciting and fun in the way that libraries, cultural institutions, are exciting and fun. They let us dip back to where we were, think about who we are, what we might become. And this library, this digital public library, I think provides an opportunity across many places, many people, to allow for that kind of interchange, which is the kind of thing that we just enjoy so much. When we open up the library in the morning, when we show up in somebody else's library in the afternoon, not just libraries, museums, archives, many other institutions, that's the, it's that pure fun of those experiences, as well as the sort of deep understanding that comes from that kind of fun. So I think it's just going to be very interesting and that the digital world allows us, and this has been my pitch all along, to share in ways that we just couldn't do before. So again, all of those newspapers, those stories out of the past, that we're gonna be able to index and share and have with each other. I have to put in a pitch for a piece that I put in a pitch for all the time. It says so right, it says government, as if I were a fan of government. I actually sort of am government biob and for the people. So one of the things that I hope this library will become is a place where essentially all of the publications of governments in the United States will be available to all of the citizens of the United States to be able to use to make sense of that's a very natural thing for a public library of America to do. In the tradition of local culture being so important, which is I think where we very much are here, the reason I have to leave early is that it's homecoming weekend at the University of Michigan. There are people who don't know what homecoming weekend is. None of those people are from the Midwest. And you know, I'm the dean of the library and there are lots of people on homecoming weekend that I really want to be talking to and who I hope will be wanting to talk to me. So it's in that context that I have to leave early. But thank you very much for supporting and being part of this institution. And Bob, thank you very much for making it. Thanks, Paul. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to take off. See you. Bye. Okay, bye. Catch that plane, Paul. JP. Do I get the same question? Or you have a different one? Nope, you get the same question. No, no, cool. So I'm shy about having been asked to be on this board, but I'm delighted and grateful and humbled by it. There are two reasons why I said yes. One is I can't think of any more important project to be working on in my life at this moment. And I love working in education and I love being a trustee of the Knight Foundation. And I think that these things sort of come together in the sense of seeking to make for the United States a resource and a platform that improve our democracy in a really fundamental way. And I think it is about education. It is about informed and engaged communities. And I think it's something that if we can get out of our own way in a funny sense, it's a collective action problem. If we could figure out how these great state projects and local projects and university projects and other projects can actually come together, get our egos a little bit out of the way in a sense, that we can create something so much bigger than what we would do if we were separately. It's just a really basic American idea. I love one of the things that Bob Darden has said consistently is this is a marriage of the sort of crazy, aspirational American attitude, but also a pragmatic can-do kind of thing. And to me, it's that kind of project. So I can't imagine a better use of my own time as a volunteer and as a sort of activist to make something like this go. There's a second reason which is a more procedural though, which is something that we talked about yesterday, extensively in the future of DPLA sessions, which is how do we create a different kind of digital age institution that isn't the classic corporation. It isn't the classic bureaucracy. It is, as Maureen Sullivan kept saying yesterday, a responsive adhocracy. It's a networked organization that really pulls in lots of people to create something where we have a shared goal. So one of my commitments as a new board member is to say, even though we've switched officially from being a truly distributed sort of collective action project to one that now has a formal board and it's chartered in Delaware and all the rest is actually to have it function much as it has been, which is really having the decision making highly distributed in interesting ways. Of course, as a board, there are certain strict fiduciary obligations we have and may have to break ties and so forth, but I wanna see every member of the community who's been working on this, working on this even harder and more going forward and that we're actually gonna grow rather than retract. So figuring out how to structure the organization so that the amazing people we've just welcomed on the board on the steering committee up here will be more engaged, not less going forward. Thanks, and Laura, John just spoke about creating something truly big and I know your past experience includes working on the Google Books project that we think of as an extremely big project. How does that experience bear on your decision to join this? And where do you see the promise in DPLA? Yeah, I would also like to start by saying it feels like a real privilege and an honor to be asked to serve and I'm so excited about the future of DPLA. I feel a little bit like DPLA is Google Books recharged or something because I think a lot of the principles and the process around the start of DPLA has really involved the right people, the right time, or the right people, the right larger communities in a way that I'm not gonna say anything about books that I would potentially regret but I feel like DPLA is really the right people, the right process, the right funders, the right leadership and it's been a great thing to watch sort of from the periphery working on Paul Caron's working group and I'm excited about the future of what this is gonna be. Thank you. Thank you. Kathy, do you wanna talk a little bit about your work in the past before jumping into... Okay. So, let me start and echo just that steering committee that was up here. This is very big shoes that we have to fill and I am very honored and privileged to be here. Those of you who might know of a little bit of my background, I was a program officer and then the initiative director of the Open Educational Resources Initiative at the Hewlett Foundation. So for 10 years I've been working, well for 10 years I worked on the idea of opening up content, opening up educational resources, using the Creative Commons open licensing platform to put content out for the world and many of the projects were based in the US but it was also very global in nature because obviously the distributed network effect that we have and part of that work I think very much parallels which is why I'm so excited and I was just thrilled to be invited and quite honored because the work in field building and open educational resources very much dovetails with what's happening here in the Digital Public Library of America and what I see is that there are multiple ecosystems that are developing in some ways, disparate ways, siloed ways but they'll be connected once they really are strong and the connections and open educational resources are now clearly global around the world. We have a network of affiliates. I'm now the CEO of Creative Commons and so we have a network of affiliates around the globe as well and I can see all these pieces coming together as well as the big plays in data and science and in government. And so for me to have the opportunity to really see these pieces is pretty incredible. I think I was mentioning a little bit this morning too. For me, what part of this excitement is this is a big bold idea. This is groundbreaking, this is pioneering. This is incredibly difficult but this will be incredibly fun and this is the white space that we're all trying to tackle and should have moved so quickly. I think to get to this point is really quite amazing and I also think the challenges will be ahead and we have to persevere, we have to keep our eye on the prize. There will be some bumps in the road when you develop new ecosystems such as the DPLA but it's a huge stand box and so I think of the DPLA as a platform. I think all the networks and the coordination that will come together will be amazing but then we can't even begin to anticipate what it will look like in five years that we'll get built on top of this because we're building this infrastructure that I think will be incredibly robust and will change the nature of how we think about sharing and about digital resources. So for me it's very, very exciting. Thank you. I wanna get into your vision for the next period for the year but let's first hear from Luis Herrera. I think we're queuing him up. Are we not on video? Who's joining us from? Greetings from San Francisco. I'm Luis Herrera, City Librarian. I wish I could be there in person at DPLA Midwest in the great city of Chicago but unfortunately I won't be able to join you due to a prior commitment. First of all thank you to the members of the DPLA steering committee for your vote of confidence in appointing me to the charter board of DPLA. I am honored and delighted to serve. I also wanna extend my sincere appreciation to the steering committee and members of the work streams who have demonstrated remarkable leadership and commitment to the vision of DPLA. The DPLA is off to a very strong start and has demonstrated excellent progress in a relatively short time. I hope that the work streams and the steering committee will work closely with the board so that together we will succeed in our goal to launch the DPLA prototype in the spring of 2013. The DPLA has at its very core the value of inclusivity. The fact that it welcomes diverse viewpoints and voices in creating a free, open and sustainable national digital library resource is very appealing to me. As a public librarian, I'm excited about the possibilities that DPLA has in terms of partnerships and collaborations among many types of libraries. This will ultimately bring our collections to a wider audience. This sharing of our nation's heritage makes for a richer, deeper and more meaningful knowledge network. Congratulations to the board and best wishes for a successful DPLA Midwest Forum. Thanks, Louise. Before we start talking about your vision and the things that you'd like to see happen with DPLA in the near future, I just wanted to open it up and see if anyone out there had any questions for the board. If I can see them. No, none for now. So do you want to build a little bit on the promise that you see? What areas, you know, we're starting here with cultural heritage content. There's so much that we want to provide access to. You have a lot of expertise, obviously with the licensing and with restrictions on content, trying to open up content. Where do you see that the DPLA could be helpful in moving more content out towards users? So I just, I think it's starting from completely the right place with the metadata. And because now we'll be able to discover and find the gems and the gems will be that much more kind of fluid, I think, across the ecosystem as we think about that. So I think that is critically important. I think about two pieces. And so this is a bit of a continuum from my work in open educational resources, but it's very much a continuum because this is how the interplay of the ecosystem happens. But it's about leveling the playing field so that everyone can have access to these great gems that exist and that they aren't housed in separate repositories but that we can find them and we can be networked across them. But that also that they can be reused to the extent it makes sense. And so that's where the open licensing makes complete sense. Going up to Paul's comment, the public should have access to what the public pays for. And this is something that's really, really important. And as we think about access and think about different assets and educational assets, we often reproduce the same assets that sit in different parts of this country or different regions. Just because, not because we don't wanna share, but because we don't necessarily always think about sharing. And so we have to change that default. We have to be thinking about sharing in a much more ready way at the first step. And when it doesn't make sense to share for whatever reason, then you opt out of sharing. But in public institutions with public dollars, as we think about it, we can really, we don't have to start from scratch again and again and we can build on and we can extend. I think that's very much the power as we move ahead. So you're a fan of, or you approve of the decision that was made to include only CC0 licensed metadata? Very. Very much. Very, yes. I mean, I think it's, this is the moment in time when you set the stage. And setting the stage in this way, I think that is gonna create the multiplier effects as we move ahead. Absolutely, absolutely. I wanna push on that a little bit and just see how can we leverage that decision, do you think, in the community? Is there, is there work we can do around just advocating for that? So you have experience that would help us think about how we present that. There are some institutions that are a little timid or fearful about opening up their metadata in that way and we're still trying to convey how important that is. So I think in general, it's often because this is new and so we have to share the ideas. We have to make the value proposition very clear. We have to put that value proposition on the table and they have to be, and so as part of it's just educating because this is all new, you tend to do what you're used to as opposed to what might be different. And I think the way to step into that is for different institutions to just do a pilot. This has kind of been the process I've used all along the way. But if you just start with a pilot and you start with an idea and you start with some metadata that you maybe not feel is at high risk, which you'll actually see that when you put it out there for others, they'll take it, they'll build on it, they'll extend it, people will find it in ways that they weren't able to before. And so this was very much a strategy we used in open educational resources to re-encourage institutions to start with a pilot. And when they did, they saw these amazing effects and then they would open more and more. And so I think one of the challenges is sometimes we have this vision and we want people to jump to the vision right away. But we have to build a bridge to the vision and I think that's gonna be part of the challenge and the strategic and the tactical initiatives that the board thinks about along with the full community about how do we build that bridge. You'll have some early leaders, you'll have some others who will, for whatever reasons, are gonna be taking steps at a different timeline but we wanna be inclusive of everyone who does that. Great. Jaype, do you wanna talk about some of the big opportunities for the next couple of months? You're nice, Maura. I feel like I get more than enough airtime so I should be really brief and turn it over to Laura. One of the fun parts about this transition is that the three of us have been on the steering committee. We're adding two new members and a lot of intelligence and experience in Laura and Kathy. So that's more interesting than hearing from me. I will say that the next few months, I think, are about going from a whole bunch of ideas and planning for and executing on that and having something to present to the public in April 2013. Now, that is a short period of time. We are not gonna have the entire DPLA built out. We need to manage the expectations so we'll have something that's wonderful and interesting and evocative but it's nowhere near where we're gonna get and I think this was Kathy's point. And in a way, I'd rather emphasize the community than I would the product just because I think the product is gonna be so different and so much more wonderful several years from now that it's gonna be in April but I really wanna emphasize is how are we thinking about informing and engaging people as we go along and building a group of people who are not just like about working on this project but I think when you heard the content hub descriptions you can see in Minnesota, in Kentucky, in Georgia there can be people who are engaging with these materials whether it's someone bringing something out of their attic or it's someone helping put metadata on or it's a librarian helping to curate it or it's a librarian at Harvard's or a big institution who's helping to digitize things we're gonna be building a ton of skills here. So you could think about this in lots and lots of ways but I think the multiplier effect of this project is gonna be about informed and engaged communities and people who are able to have an active role in creating this knowledge resource. So I guess in the next several months I would de-emphasize the actual build and sort of re-emphasize the people aspect of the project. And I think added to that one of the things that I found very remarkable about this process is how the library community has been so supportive and included in every step of the way and I think that's a really important message to the broader world or the United States or even globally as we heard earlier that this is really a grassroots effort in a way that none of the other efforts in this realm have really ever been before and I think that's really remarkable and wonderful about this effort and I think it's a real asset to what's trying to be done. Do you wanna talk about just some of the formal things that are happening over the next months? Everyone who was with us yesterday knows that there is a new DPLA org, there's DPLA Incorporated and you're beginning a search now for an executive director. There are these procedural things that are happening. What are you looking for in the executive director? What types of qualities do you think would add up to make someone who can lead this to the next step? Next level. I'll jump in and start and let you jump in. I was saying in an earlier conversation that I think this is an extraordinary opportunity for someone to be able to lead an effort like the quick will I think change the face of how we think about the assets and content and the library materials I think is remarkable. So I think we need someone who has kind of that blend of vision and leadership and can bring the community together but it's also someone who can also really make it happen as well and so there's a bit of a range that we're thinking of so it has to be someone who can really lead the effort but also help think about the work streams and the implementation in a very real way. I just think it's extraordinary and so obviously we'll all be sharing this job description once it's created with the broader community but I'm sure we'll have a really star person who will come together. So we'll have this star person and we'll have a small core truly at the center. The DPLA Inc. is not being planned to be a large organization. It's gonna be a tight small organization. Where do you see, again, the opportunities. There's so many organizations here and friends that have helped that have contributed to DPLA and this is the way Europaiana works. Europaiana has a small core with institutions and organizations that work and feed into it. Is this the kind of model that you see working long term for DPLA? How can organizations here think about the future with DPLA? I think I would use kind of a software model for how people can kind of stay involved going forward which is the developer conference. I mean, in a sense, this community is the developer community of the DPLA and I feel like, I don't think we as a board have really necessarily settled on the right format and the feeding in of the various committees, et cetera, et cetera, but I feel like maintaining the idea of having the broadest possible community be supportive and interactive as much as possible and having developer conventions, essentially, is probably something I would advocate going forward so that we can really be in touch with the community, hear what's on people's minds and make sure we're responding to the needs of the broader community that the DPLA is professionally starving. So I would just echo what my smarter colleagues have just said, I think we have absolutely our work cut out for us in terms of finding the right person and the right structure, but I think our commitment is in these clear inclusive ways just in terms of next practical steps which I imagine was part of your question, Maura. We have created the DPLA Inc. as a Delaware corporation but there's a fair amount more logistically to do. We're making it into a non-profit so we still have to get the IRS to commit to that in the next several months, which we hope will happen. We have filed a very initial form of the articles of incorporation and bylaws, but we're gonna be updating those to try to reflect the community values, so we have very bare-bones documents initially been gathering through the governance work stream, lots of information about how people think we should govern things, and that I think goes ultimately to what Laura's talking about. What's the structure of participation? Do we create committees under the board that are the work stream? Something like that probably makes a lot of sense because we want to perpetuate this form of engagement. I'd love to see an annual event at least that's kind of like Wikimania, which as you may know is a gathering of the Wikimaniacs who edit the pages most actively and the board participates in so forth, but it's really a very open community and I would imagine it'd be great to have library students and retired librarians and active people from the archives and museum community and so forth all coming together annually to update metadata and be metadata geeks but also get jazzed about it. So that's kind of on the formal side. In terms of the executive director search, we've been talking a lot about having a search consultant so I think we will be retaining someone in that way really because we don't actually have a staff. Emily is, we'll transition, Emily is it, she's awesome. And I don't think she's not even technically on the DPLA Inc payroll because we don't have a payroll yet, but hopefully we will. But the process in the next several months will be, we have a very initial draft job description which we've sent around on the list serves. We'll formalize that into a more attractive and literal job description but if you in the audience or online are interested in the job, please let either me or Mora know probably initially or if you have suggestions, nominations, we'll be putting certainly a form up for people to put in nominations. I think it's not entirely make or break but it's pretty close in terms of getting the right executive director to lead this for the first several years and that person I think just needs to be a totally mission driven human being and she or he has to wanna wake up every morning and change the world and have the ability to work with a very broad group of people inclusively and actively and kind of lovingly to get there in an urgent kind of way. So I think it's, I think it'd be an amazing opportunity for someone really to contribute to the world and I'm quite sure you are out there whoever you might be but it'll be exciting. Thanks for that. I did wanna see if again anyone out there had input for you about, you talked about the board having committees. We've had this very large community that's been so important to the progress that DPLA has made. Is there input from you all here about where we should focus and where we should push? Some people have suggested there might be a committee on community colleges for example that we might focus on user groups. Others have suggested we might focus on types of content. You know, maybe it's important to have an e-book lending working committee, that type of thing. I don't know if you- Any comments from the live stream maybe? Sure. Martin asks, do you hope to grow the membership of the board? What will you look for new members? And then just one other question from Rigel M.D. Do you have a strategy for extending the social benefit of this project to our substantial incarcerated population? I heard the first half of that but not the second so I can answer the first part. In terms of the size of the board, the nominating committee asked the board as one of its first acts to extend itself from five to seven members. So one of the early to-dos is to add two more members and I think we are committed to looking out across the country and across the field to say what are the pieces that are not yet represented in the first five of us and figure out that process and we'll also need to structure the terms and so forth so we can have some continuity as things go along. So right now we've set up the bylaws so we each have three or terms renewable once. We realize that we need to stagger that so we don't all go off the board at one moment and then have an entire new board go on. Anyway, I'm sorry, I was being distracted. The second question was about whether DPLA has a strategy to serve incarcerated communities and I know that the one community that I've heard referenced is the site disabled community is the first community that we've really made a commitment to serve. I don't know that. I mean I think that's the power of DPLA. It's anytime, anywhere, any place at no cost one of those wireless and connections. So the incarcerated community certainly will be able to benefit from the work here and I would think that if there's a certain some community of that that we want to think about moving ahead in some ways. We certainly have that opportunity to do that because this will be a huge network that we'll build on. Bob to talk about community colleges and see made that argument before. Are you willing Bob to make your case? Well, one thing we've not stressed perhaps as much as we might have is the pedagogical mission of the DPLA. The opportunities are simply endless and I think if you look over our national educational system, one thing stands out and that is the community colleges. There are more students in community colleges than exist in the four year colleges and universities. The community colleges provide an extraordinary channel for people who somehow got off course to get back onto course and achieve a higher education but they operate under very difficult circumstances. Many don't have adequate libraries. So it seems to me that the DPLA is an ideal asset for community colleges. They can have digitally access to the entire cultural heritage of the country and really of the world. However, it's easy to say this, to make it happen as something else. And I've talked a fair amount with some of the community college leaders and if you simply say to them, you can have access to the cultural heritage of the country, they roll their eyes because they've got specific problems of helping students get through their programs. Many of the students are working full time, not just part time. And so I think we need to work out a strategy for the DPLA to offer its riches, which are of a quality of expertise as well as the kind of content it will make available to the community colleges. One suggestion that came up yesterday, actually in discussions was to go to the college board and to say, let's design advanced placement packages, courses that could be offered in high schools that then could feed into the community colleges utilizing DPLA material. So having seen these wonderful productions from Kentucky and Minnesota, you get some sense of how that could energize classes of students who are concerned with local issues but also often local issues that have national repercussions or to look at the local issues from a national perspective. So in short, I think the community colleges is one area that the future DPLA should concentrate on because of the possibility of really contributing to the pedagogical needs of the country. Thanks, Bob. You know, another thought I have is the aspirate, one of the aspirations of DPLA is to also just transform the way that we work as professionals who are working in libraries, museums and archives. And another group that we've thought about is the group of library students. You mentioned it and the retired librarians. There's a lot of manpower out there and there's a lot that can be done even in the way that we teach people to work in this profession. And we think that DPLA provides an incredible opportunity for that group. I just saw Michelle Klunin, Who is she here? Dean of Simmons Graduate School of Library and Information Science and she's over there and we're gonna call on her cold call. Right about now? Right about now is the microphone approaches to see if she has thoughts on how her students could get engaged. We've had brief conversations about them coming into the hubs. To buy Michelle a moment of time as she gathers her thoughts, one of the aspirations we've had within the Secretariat is to make this the single coolest library internship that anybody could get. Working on the DPLA and there have been a few and there's some wonderful interns we've had already and certainly the Emily Gore-inspired Scana Bego is yet another- He has not stopped talking about the Scana Bego since Emily introduced it. It's still in our future, any of you so. So I had two ideas. One is that most LIS programs today have very strong chapters of the professional associations and at these professional associations there's often student posters and activities. So an ALA is one organization that has student chapters throughout the United States. So I think engaging students in that way is one idea. And then I was just thinking when Mara and I were chatting in the ladies' room where I knew much of my network and people said we have something called the alternate spring break. And we do things like in the Boston area school libraries that don't have librarians anymore. Our students go and collect books, catalog books, read to students, that kind of thing. But doesn't this seem like the ideal thing for an alternative student break? Because it's the same kind of community engagement. And I think that students are so adept now at finding communities both in person and via many new technologies that we could use them to engage in this project in that way as well. So those are two quick thoughts but I'm sure I can come up with some more before the end of the afternoon. No, that's very helpful. Thank you. You touched on this aspect too that's important of DPLA about bringing together the digital and the physical, bringing people into our community spaces to engage with materials that are now digital. And oh, I think Amy has left. Amy Ryan has left. I was gonna cold call her. She also had to get her claim. That's why she left tomorrow. She knew. She knew it was coming. Well, you know, we've seen some good work already with, I'm being, Dan Jones is pointing. Patrick was in skis there. He can pick that. Hey, Mara and John and others. I'm asking a question about how you have thought about the challenge of branding. It seems to me that it's DPLA is going to emerge as an incredibly strong brand. The challenge is how do we keep the local brand strong as well, particularly with smaller institutions at some point as DPLA becomes even more successful. Some local smaller institutions might even be threatened by the popularity of DPLA. So what advice do you have for keeping that local brand strong alongside the greater brand of DPLA? I'll take an initial response, Patrick, and then let my colleagues answer too. As I've said many times, I think that the way in which people will engage with the DPLA is almost certainly going to be more often through a local library than directly through DPLA. I've been thinking about this as an 80-20 kind of heuristic where I expect that 80% of the time people will come to DPLA aggregated content through the Cleveland or Columbus public libraries or the Boston public library or the Dwights in South Carolina and that it will be local librarians curating metadata and content, books, images, whatever it might be for local communities, for students in, for instance, community colleges or for school children doing their insect project in the sixth grade. So I actually think that the DPLA will succeed the more that it allows for public libraries to succeed so that, in fact, I'd rather submerge the brand in that way. 20% of the time I do think people will come to DP.LA and go to it. I think that the name has, though we've talked many times about whether the name itself is problematic, I think that the name has taken on a positive valence and that it's actually been a good thing but it's certainly thinking about marketing and communication and branding is something that we'll continue to talk about. But you all may have fresh thoughts on this that are less recycled than my own. No, I think building on what you're saying, my own thinking or my own vision of it is that DPLA is kind of the infrastructure underlying other libraries in some ways. It's a digital infrastructure and that's like the Intel inside chip that's kind of like run on DPLA or. But I think that DPLA will have a national brand but I feel like that really it will be sublimated in a lot of ways to the local library brand or other digital libraries that people might more intrinsically interact with. But I think we should probably look at is this the right name? Is this the right brand? What are we doing about it as we move forward so we're not in five years saying, we really missed an opportunity that maybe we should have thought about at the outset. Yeah, my only thought is that if we build the network correctly in some ways DPLA is part of the infrastructure. So it starts right now with the hub and we're all spoken in. But if we build it right, DPLA comes underneath it in some ways and it's supportive of all the entities that are on top. But it's a little tricky because this is new. You know, will DPLA be on the top and the other institutions below or will it be below and supporting? And I don't think we can answer that question yet but I think we can be very aware as we move ahead and that we certainly, the objective is not to push out other entities in any other way, but to keep all the brands strong around the library, archives and museums and to make sure that we have those opportunities as we move ahead. So I think it's tricky because we don't know but I think the more we're aware of it then we can just adjust as we move ahead. I think all of us are involved in this project because we care about knowledge, we care about libraries, we care about archives, we care about museums. And the point is nobody wants to undermine what we're trying to support. And as we've said many times, this is a project with no mothers or fathers even though they're certainly some clearly important people in setting it up. And I think if we sort of keep that same spirit of a very low ego involved and really focus on our mission and the people we're trying to serve, I think we can get a long way in that way. Yeah, Patrick, you're a large urban public library but you work with lots of smaller libraries. How do you see DPLA serving their needs? I'm gonna go back to the branding real quickly. I think at the end of the day, I don't think this is an issue for the Columbus Metropolitan Library but I think small libraries at some point face severe funding threats. This wonderful resource, you can easily see how some local funders might say, gosh, we don't need quite as much now with this wonderful DPLA in place. And so as local people go into a voting booth to support their local library, my concern is how do we do this in tandem? All of us understand the goodness of DPLA and the intentions and keeping egos low. I just think we have to keep awareness in place that we have to have strategies for those smaller institutions to keep their brand alive at the same time. And so I think this is going to be a boon to small libraries and a smaller institution. So that's not the issue. I'm gonna ask Maureen Sullivan just to frame that and from her seat before we move on. I wanted to respond with two points. The first is this is yet another example of what's so wonderful about these convenings because you're raising something that has not yet been addressed but is a really important issue. But as you were framing your question, I was thinking I envision this entity to be at least in three dimensions and maybe more. And I think one of the things we wanna do is we want to create a graphic depiction of all of its different components whenever we can do that. But I also think as we go forward, we wanna be mindful of this value of inclusivity that we have. And I think we wanna be thinking in the four streams that just run through my head every time I think about this. We have a responsibility to continue to communicate. We have a responsibility to create the opportunity for convening where these issues can be addressed. We have a serious responsibility to do research and to publish the research about the conditions that we're trying to meet. And the one you're really raising for me, Patrick, is the importance of education. And I think we have opportunities to reach out to the funders of local libraries to make a very clear case for where the opportunities are here but why this is not a substitute for the support. In fact, it's really gonna be an effort that I think is gonna highlight the need for local support of these community assets in which we have been investing for centuries in this country. And we have to preserve. So I would thank you for the question. I thought that was great. No, it's a great question and great answer. Thank you, Maureen. If there are any other questions, I see a hand in the back there and Dwight has something to say here. Dwight first, because the microphone's there and then we'll go to the back and you second. Thank you. This is to address the comments that were made. We've all heard that Google is going to replace all libraries. I'm sure that everyone has heard that. That we don't need libraries anymore because we have Google and Google provides all. But it's just not so. All politics are local. All resources are local. We who are in the small communities, we know that Kathy Sue has in her attic Aunt Emma's records from the 1920s when she was a suffragette and nobody else on the planet knows that. And it's up to us to make sure that the funders know that we have that information and that we're the best placed to also describe the content that nobody else can, not from Harvard, not from Columbus, Ohio, not from Washington, DC. And so that's our strength. But we do have to advocate that and we do have to make that clear because you're absolutely right. There will be the people that say libraries are outmoded. They're like old record stores no longer needed because we have Google. Thank you. Dwight, thank you. You're always a great representative of small and rural libraries. Can I just make a comment? Yes. When I was at Google and I no longer am there, so this is not an official comment. But we often got asked precisely that question and really what we found with the advent of book search was that there was a lot of increase in traffic to local libraries. And in fact, instead of decreasing people's need and desire to be in the local library, it actually increased. And so that's just a useful point, I think, for us to take away from my long ago now experience there. And I think a good point for funders of all types to know that people increasingly depend on local librarians or their local library for resources and for help in understanding how to use digital technology. The other thing I wanted to say is that Emily Gore's idea of the Scanabego and also these regional scanning hubs was something we really tried to crack when I was at Google. And I think one of the things that really differentiated this project from what we were doing at Google was that there was such local support and local interest. And the regional hubs are really an innovative, amazing idea that I think Google could never have. I shouldn't say never, but. Once a Google employee. This is lunch. Confused that. Thank you. Recorded for Puster. I think it's an amazingly innovative idea that was a no, we just could not crack when I was at Google. That's right. Exactly. You didn't have to. Live stream. There was a question in the back, right there, yep. I thought what Paul Koran said about government information was really important at federal, state, and local levels if we could disseminate all that government information that has been published over the years. That would be a really powerful boost for the DPLA. And are there efforts to be working on that already? There are. And I think if Carl Malamud, one of our former steering committee members were here, he would be jumping up and down on the stage. And we should actually share with you some of his remarks. He's actually published one of his previous DPLA speeches on exactly this topic. He argues in favor of a federal scanning commission and has put together an extensive plan around that. Yes, we scan. Yes, we scan, is the theory. And I think we stand at a moment where we just have to choose among a series of things to be our next steps toward something great. And I think the idea of getting federal resources to be published through this mechanism, among other mechanisms, is an obvious one. You could imagine all the federal court records, for instance. That's something that doesn't happen to exist in a single place. You have to go to the Supreme Court website to get Supreme Court opinions and other federal courts. There are just so many obvious things, not subject to copyright, which is a very difficult issue for us for the 20th and 21st century. That's out of the way under the US copyright statute. So I think there's amazing opportunity there. I think the question is only an opportunity cost one. And which things do we go after first? I think in our initial effort, and I see Emily calling for the mic, which is good, I'd like to see us demonstrate a little bit of a bunch of different things so we can show the types. And then let's make the political case to do this. And let's get the government printing office to be behind this and showing up at events too, and actually making it happen. So I think there are plenty of partners here who could help us supercharge that. And there's absolutely no reason not to do it. So it's almost lunchtime. We have Emily and then one last question here, short ones. But thank you. Yeah, I was just going to say that some of the HUB pilot participants already have a significant amount of state, as well as government documents. One of them coming out of South Carolina digitizing a 1.5 million pages from the National Park Service. There's a large project in the CIC going on, which Minnesota is participating in, to digitize a large amount of federal documents. So I think we will have some as part of the pilot and obviously can keep that in mind moving forward. That's great. One as the mic goes over here, let me just add one note, which is that though federal copyright doesn't preclude us using in any way, the federal government documents, there are many states, a few dozen states that still claim copyright over state records, which is to me just perverse. So of the things that seem like obvious areas of advocacy for the DPLA, I think it's to sort of show the gaps out there and some of these kind of ridiculous policies like why there should be state copyright claims in public records that I think we as a community, as we kind of fill this out could help to nudge. Thank you, John. So this is another comment about the kind of pedagogical potential of DPLA, something we discussed yesterday at one of our tables was the possibility of building teaching guides around the material here. And I think that I'd suggest thinking into the future possibly a real strategic and explicit collaboration with the teaching organization to create some kinds of lesson plans or teaching guides about the material because that really, the work I've done with our public schools in Chicago, teachers really need to have some way into digital collections. They don't have the time to do all of the work themselves and I think that would really be something that would leverage the possibilities here. Thank you, we're hoping that our friends in Minnesota will share the work they've done through the Hubs pilot and that that will become a part of DPLA indeed. I took that to be what Bob's point about potentially creating some modules for community colleges and then as a high school principal, I'd love to see that happen too. So as you've seen, Kathy Casterly had to leave us as well to catch a flight. Oh, something's happening out there. The board is at your disposal for comments and questions and also please share your thoughts with them on the future of the DPLA. Now it's time for lunch before we break. Take a look at your ID, the purple dots. This was done because of fire code. We had to divide everyone into two rooms. So the purple dots are straight ahead. I don't know what that room is called. The reception hall and the blue dots are in the multi-purpose room which is a little bit to the left as you leave. We'll be reconvening at 2.30 and we thank you. Thank you.