 Hello and let's talk about yet another Rafael Nadal victory at a French Open. This is 13th victory at the clay surface of Roland Garot and his 20th Grand Slam title. With this he is equal Roger Federer's record the highest number of Grand Slams won by a male player. This was a unique victory for Nadal as he had not played much this year and the conditions were different as the tournament was being held in September. He was also up against Novak Djokovic who has been in really good form this year. None of this mattered though as Nadal won a spectacular 6-0-6-2-7-5 victory against the world number one. Now there are a lot of records and numbers to parse through but today we won't be going into that or the question of who is in fact the greatest of all time. Instead, we will talk about the factors behind the longevity and endurance of players like Rafael Nadal and his contemporaries like Roger Federer and Serena Williams. How do players competing at the top level stay on top of the game for so long? What keeps them going in addition to the love of the game? And what about Indian sports persons? We talked in NewsClick, Leslie Xavier on these issues. Thanks Leslie for joining us. So Nadal once again crafting quite a historic victory and it's kind of unbelievable almost at some level to see Nadal of course but also some of his contemporaries via Federer and Djokovic as well. But the kind of dominance that they have established over men's tennis over the past many years especially the Nadal Federal or whatever you say about the rivalry that's one thing. But it's also remarkable that these two people have kind of they're strode over, they dominated the scene for so long. So it's a very interesting question in terms of how an athlete like Nadal also someone who's tennis that way is that physical in some senses and how someone like that is able to sort of stay fit, stay, I mean he's gone through injuries of course but nonetheless he has been at the very top levels of the game and how he's managed to sort of stay at that top league for such a long time. So what are your thoughts about that? Funny bit is that when you watch Nadal at the French Open, we just, I mean we just talk about how many sets, there's no question that they will lose or not. So Djokovic, I mean of course world number one in great form at the moment. So again every time these two have met at the Grand Slam or even Nadal playing Federer at the French Open, there's always this question, will this time that thing happen, the impossible thing of these two beating Nadal at Rollin-Garow? But it never happens and so yesterday while we were at Newsclick when we were discussing at the desk how to, the coverage plan, the time span involved in that since 6.30 match in the evening so we were saying it would go. So I predicted four sets because I was giving Djokovic the credit but Nadal had other ideas and yeah, what a match. I mean it came out with purpose and just destroyed Djokovic in the first two sets. Third set, there was some semblance of a fight and so it's the last, I mean decade and a half if you look at Nadal's, I mean owning the playcourts of Paris. It's several because 10 years or across four, any sport for that matter, we haven't seen that kind of dominance ever. Even when you look at, I mean yeah of course in 10 years it has happened with Roger Federer who has won 20 Grand Slam but he has not owned a single Grand Slam like the way Nadal has done. 13 is a huge number, we are, I mean the previous generation, the record holders, Sampras for instance or before that, Bjorn Bog. So we are talking about five, six Grand Slams at the most and then the record was before Federer it was 12 Grand Slams. So it's, I mean this generation of players, the big three that we speak about, they have stepped up the idea of being on top of the game to another level altogether and it's a mix of a lot of factors and first and foremost I would like to mention the development in the sports science. So these athletes, I mean these tennis players, they are on tour almost 365 days a year. In fact they don't have a break either because the winter break that they get, it's actually, I mean apart from a small family time or whatever, they get into training for the next season. So it's a cycling process. So the bodies go to constant competition, constant building, rebuilding. Rest is also training. So there is specific science involved in training these athletes to be at the top and the top three of tennis that we talk about, they take it to another level altogether. So long back and we in India have an example of a tennis player being on the top of the game, I mean of course not comparable to the top three, but Leander Pez has been there on the world tour ever since I followed tennis. So late 80s he got into Davis Cup and then of course at that stage he was focusing on the singles game and then in 1960 he won the Olympic bronze medal and slowly towards the end of that decade he shifted his focus to doubles and again that was probably a larger understanding of his body as well as the limitations in his game. So he wanted to continue playing at the high level and he knew that singles is not exactly going to afford him that so he shifted to doubles. And let's just be very clear and this is from the discussions that I've had with Leander Pez also that it's not easy on the body if you are a doubles player either, you have to keep it in shape, you have to be particular about a lot of things. So in Leander's case he has mentioned how he is very particular about the kind of shoes, the insoles that he uses, the socks, the material of the socks, the microns involved in the, everything is to the team, planned to the team, the drinks that they take. So this is something that we have spoken about, many athletes have spoken about how they, they have a mix of, it's not like drinking water, recover from the thirst, you have a mix of electrolytes, you have to take this much at this time before match, you have to take this much. So it's an exact science that is at play. So when you talk about Rafael Nadal being a physical player and then he has had a very bad knee issue and then he has come back from there and he's kept on winning and he's there right there, either number one or number two in the world ranking. So it's also a result of the technology and the team that's surrounded himself and Nadal or Djokovic for that matter, when they get on, or any player for that matter, when they get on to the podium, receiving the trophy, one of the first things that they do is thank the team. So it's not a, it's not a rhetoric, it's not something that they have by hearted, they genuinely mean it because without the team they are not there. So that's a major aspect that I would want to mention here, which, so if you think about the current generation of tennis players stepping up that longevity idea by three-four, and we are talking about, I mean, we should also mention Serena Williams here. I mean, she is one more than the men and she has been there almost the same time as Roger Feather. And so when we mentioned the longevity and stepping up of the level of physicality, the fitness, the fitness in the game, so everything is connected with the step up in the sport science that has happened in the last 20 years or so. That's the first factor, yeah, but there are many which I would like, we would obviously discuss in this talk. So I guess another key aspect is how important it is to actually imbibe many of these lessons at a fairly young stage. And this means that from the very beginning, when you start playing, when you go into the professional circuits, you know, you are aware of some of these factors and you have the right kind of people around you and you have the right kind of institutional support. So could you maybe talk a bit about how important that aspect is? So in tennis, any professional sport for that matter or any sport that you would perceive at higher level, they start young, we have to start young. So that's one of the reasons why there are many Indian athletes across various sport who don't, who are unable to step into that, that elite level, because they, they lost years that for many years, two years that way. So and when, when you start training these kids, so that's that's again, two three aspects are there when, when kids are being trained, one is one aspect is the idea of setting goals and you set shorter goals as part of training, saying we need to win the junior nation's next year, or we need to be in the national camp next year, or we need to beat this particular opponent or that. So those are the shorter plans, or we need to reach a certain physical, physical fitness level. But the, the, the, the larger idea of a career goal, which as kids, we talk about, right? What is your ambition in life? What do you want to become in life? So that kind of a discussion and slow, I mean, the coaching mechanism or the, or the mentors who are involved, they should invite slowly the idea of the larger goal, what do you want to aim in your career? So it begins there. So then if you, if you have set your sights on, on the stars, so to speak, then obviously you would work towards that. And it's an incremental process. So when we look at the first week three, that was in 2005, it was 19 year old then. And Joker, which is first week three, which was a couple of years later, at the still open, which he was also a teenager, then it was also 19, I believe. And so, but their tennis journey is the professional tour journey. So might, might have started two years before prior to that, but, but their journey in the game started at a much younger age. So it would have taken 10, 10 years for them to reach the Grand Slam stage and then a couple of years more to get, get used to the competition and then realize their, I mean, established their credentials as, as, as a serious flow for the future. So, so that journey is set in the mind to start with. So you have the right goals in place. And, and, and then comes the idea of role models around then comes the idea of if there is someone else to emulate and, and, and strive for to reach reach that kind of a distance. So when we look at the momentum that Indian sport has gained in certain sport for a certain disciplines, for instance, for instance, shooting or wrestling, where we are one consistently over the last three for Olympic Games medals shooter. I mean, we have a huge line of young shooters who could potentially win, win the Olympic, win the Olympic medal next year when the games are staged. So these, these happened after Abhinav Vindra, after Gagan Narang, winning at the Olympic Games, winning medals at the Olympic Games, even though we had great shooters before that as well, someone like Anjali Bhagwat or in shotgun, if you had, you had just Farzana. So, but, but that, that stepping up never happened till a role model came up, till Rajwar Dhan Singh Rathol won one silver, then the gold from Abhinav Vindra. And then, yeah, it's the momentum has stayed the same thing in in badminton, Sainan Aval's medal. And then after that, you know what has happened in badminton in the country. So, so that, that, that setting of example or having examples around is also a big, big, big factor in this. Right. And the last, I mean, as far as the journey, once the journey starts, it's, it's again, we, I mentioned earlier about the idea of team, which, which works around that need to push them further. So then there is this micro increments that is required to refocus this athlete for a, for a bigger goal, for a bigger, bigger, bigger idea. Right. So these are, these are small tricks, the mind trick, it can be a target trick, it can be a, of course, it can be a very objective target or it can be a very subjective tactic, like, like you need to be this guy, you need to reach that level or you need to chase that number. Right. So, so these, these small target setting is also important. So a little earlier this year in May, in fact, Nadal had spoken about all these things in an interview, saying how, I mean, various factors are in play for him to continue pushing himself. But biggest is, of course, the passion and passion for me is nothing but, but an incremental set of ideas imbibed into you about the game, what you want to do with the game. And it's, it adds on so much so that ultimately it becomes your life, it becomes your absolute mission. It becomes like Nadal said passion. So he said, Federer, I, Joker, which we are all passionate beyond numbers, beyond trophies about the game. And so that's why we keep pushing ourselves. And so that happens right at the formative stage. Absolutely. Passion is, yeah, of course, self driven factor is there. But at the same time, passion needs to be imbibed into, into, and that there is also in some senses at the risk of sounding contradictory as science to the passion is where it's not just exuberance of spirit, but something which is like you said, very incrementally planned. And third passion, I would say, you can see that there are many tennis players who are very passionate, even now if you look at, or even in the past, who have fell, fell down the wayside. Right. So it's passion needs to be reined in, it needs to be controlled also. Absolutely. So that's, that's the, that's the whole idea of managing a professional athlete. And so, so these athletes, though they stand out as, as great performers, as icons of the generation or for all time, there is also a exact science that works around making them what they are. Absolutely. And let's do a final question. So you did hint at a couple of these examples. We're all, what about the issue of institutional support from a young age also? Like we have another example, Lionel Messi, who again, a very, a footballer who's been around for a really long time, performed accidentally, but also was a product of a very, very strong system in terms of how, I say, in terms of coaching, in terms of training. Badminton itself, Gopitian's academy has played a very vital role, for instance, in India and giving some of that. So for instance, in India, especially do we need many more of these institutions which can actually provide that level of institutional support? So Lionel Messi's journey is a classic example of how an institution can change your life. So Messi was picked up from as a talented kid from Los Angeles and Argentina and taken to La Masia, Barcelona's youth academy. And it's just he was part of the golden generation of Barcelona and Spain because it was the core team that won Spain, the World Cup was Barça players and Messi's generation of players. And the same thing applies to any professional footballer because nobody grows, I mean, of course, raw talent and the raw base is always there. But then all these from great professional footballers who are playing that way across the world, they're all part of part of one system or the other. One academy or the other. And there are many who don't make it there because they couldn't just make that jump at the right time or the right place. So right time is a factor, right place is a factor. And so that that is the in India when coming back to India, that is where the system is not correlated enough. So sometimes in certain sport, for instance, you mentioned badminton, you have the system established, but it's it's it's also a very, I mean, it's a it's a single entity system. It's focused in I Drabath. It's a it's great that he has produced a lot of champions, but I would say you could do better because if you if you look at establishing a network of such such centers, because we don't I mean centralized a centralized program is great, but centralized program because it gives the mentors or coaches a lot of control, controlled environment, focus on the players who are there present. But then India is a large country, population is you, which we have a lot of talent across the length and length of the country. And we also had badminton pockets, pockets around as well. So for instance, as a great badminton culture, and many, many good players have come out, especially in the doubles circuit from from the Rajiv and the those stadium training center in Kochi, Bangalore was his center is his center. But again, the best players are based in I Drabath, Prakash Padukone Academy, I'm talking about. And Vinod Kumar is a coach there in based in Bangalore and some players, of course, in the national team, they play in Bangalore, but but the elites, the top level all are based in I Drabath. So one is the establishment of that wider network. And so that helps in meeting the two factors that I mentioned, the right place and the right time. Exactly. So not all athletes or young kids would be like Sainan Avalov, who are willing to uproot themselves from Haryana and go to I Drabath and base there and right. I mean, there are there are problems like that. And even if a kid uproots a self or himself to a new city, they might not be happy about it. Then things so that is one thing right place and right time. So how do you catch the youngsters at the right age to nurture them? So that is that these two factors don't come in together at all. I mean, very rarely it comes and then you see great results for the international arena. So that that is in India's sort of a systemic short shortcoming, I would say. And yeah, to the question that you asked earlier, the initial setting off the path for this, at least no matter how great they are, they end up eventually end up being initially, they start at the starting point, which is, I mean, you can call it zero point because they have their own talents, whatever, but that's from there they built. It's a castle that they're building and it meets strong base from there it goes up goes up structurally and strength by strength. So that that that is required. And only then things would I mean, we could be we would be able to mold athletes who are not I mean, not just I mean, one of standout performers but performers at a larger longer time span. And I mean, one factor that I missed earlier, which I would like to wind up with this is about competition at the right time. So we we talk about Indian system where of course, I mean, you establish a lot of academies and I'm giving an arbitrary system. And all these kids are trained. But but then if they don't get the competition, the right competition at the right time, then then it phase as well. So you're talking about football. So we have a lot of academies, young kids come up. But then at a certain age, they they don't get the matches that they need to play. So I've so I've spoken to the coaches from the Netherlands, both football and hockey coaches, where they mentioned that the real focus would be on giving them match time skills and all we teach we we but but match time is important because that is where they they get the muscle memory for for playing. They also understand the dynamics of match. They also develop game intelligence. So that is important match and also the kind of competition. So that takes us to Nadal and Federer and Djokovic. So these three pushed each other. It's very clear. So it's like how Muhammad Ali and Joe Fraser pushed each other to great. So their fights were legendary and they became who they are because they could offer each other competition. We always talk about this channel and we always make that comparison with Messi. They say, I mean, of course, it's a team game. There's no direct rivalry as such, but there is also indirect pushing involved where they they motivate each other to perform outperform each other. The same thing applies across any sport. So so we are probably lucky that to see these tennis players reach these heights because in that generation, they are two three who would not allow the other test. So the constant evolution is something that Nadal spoke about again in that same interview in May where he said they have not rested at a certain level. They kept chipping on the game so that they get an advantage next time they meet. You know, Nadal has lost badly to Djokovic in other tournaments and and really badly. So yesterday after the victory Nadal said, sorry, but then you have done the same thing to me. So that's that's that's that's a kind of rival. So you lose, but you then you then you understand why you lost and then you push yourself. So that's that's that's so that competition and that idea of rivalry is very key to sporting success and at a larger level to sporting longevity. Right. Absolutely. Thank you so much, Leslie, for talking to us. That's all we have time for today. We'll be back tomorrow with more news from the country and the world. Until then, keep watching Newsclick.