 Hello, welcome to Jenkins documentation office hours today is March 28th, and this is the EU US edition today at this point in time We have myself Kevin Martens Mark wait, Bruno Vareshten and Sridhar civic umar is joining us as well so first things first with over the agenda check and see if anyone has any topics they'd like to add and Well, and then we'll get started. So For the agenda today, so we have the latest LTS release that happened last week We have the upcoming LTS release for this for April contributor spotlight update weekly release update Google summer of code notes Jenkins community awards update in the sense of What the next steps are what we're at with that Some notes on the version documentation for Jenkins that I owe The tutorial revamps to use Docker compose Adding sponsor attributions adding a sponsor attributions page some recent pull requests submitted by an user Python hub aka pseudo heads up shoe. So Thanks for that and some updates on a recent Suggestion comment that Gavin Mogan had posted in the docs getter channel Is there anything else I see marks putting a couple things on there as well So we've got that is there anything else that we want to add to the agenda or does that cover topics for what everyone has So, oh, it's already in tutorials revamp, isn't it Bruno the one that I was about to add which was Docker You're right. Monk Great. Okay. Yeah. That's the first point here. I think is discuss the goals the high-level goals and Next steps good. Okay, great. Okay Anything else we want to add to the agenda or does that cover everything? Okay, cool So first things first so LTS 2.4 40 point 2 was released last week on March 20th Everything went well. There was a live stream last week with Mark and Darren Pope to go over all the changes and that's always a The case for any LTS release and they're recorded and stored on the Jenkins YouTube channel. So Always available to watch after the fact as well And then so the next LTS release will be 2.4 40 point 3 that is currently scheduled for April 15th And Chris Stern has volunteered to be the release lead for that. Thanks to Chris for Signing on for that and being a release lead once again. So We'll have that we'll have the change log an upgraded guide in the coming weeks as a pull request for review and we'll adjust things from there and then Following this we're going to also be looking at the next LTS baseline selection So that will be a discussion in the coming weeks as well Next up the contributor spotlight was Updated this week Bruno Vrush, then's contributor spotlight page is now live We had a little bit of an extended break while I was out of office So it didn't get published on the regular two-week cadence, but we're back So we're just going to continue on for two weeks from here. So we're back on a regular schedule and We had I worked with Alyssa to make sure that the tweet and LinkedIn post went out at a more appropriate time for EU time zone So that we get max visibility on that So thanks to poor Bruno for Collaborating and participating in the contributor spotlight appreciate it I'm speaking from experience. I know how hard it is to have a spotlight on yourself sometimes So thank you for just being there for that Next up weekly 2.45 one was released this week there was a couple issues with the Initial build, but they were resolved. Thanks to Damian to Portell and his quick action So very much thanks to Damian and the info team as a whole for taking care of these and resolving any issues that we run into Something that we also added recently through the suggestion and work of Daniel Beck is that the changelogs all now have an Individual permalink for each one. So if we go to the Jenkins changelog You'll see this permalink to this entry and let me just expand Size this up a little bit. So this permalink to this entry is going to be a link just to that versions of changelog And it's the same case for the weekly changelog as well. So for two five two four five one which released this week There's that So thanks to Daniel Beck again for coming up with this and creating putting the work in to have this be an option now for people On the two point four five one release, I just wanted to note that this was an entry that was added after the fact So it's a note for the Debian and Ubuntu support it now Jenkins so the weekly two point four five one now requires Debian 10 and Ubuntu 20.04 as the minimum supported versions. This is the result of a packaging pull requests linked here and This will be part of the next LTS Release as well. So this will be part of that changelog and release Yeah, so Kevin you're okay if I spend a minute on that while you're there Yeah, please by all means I do want to go to the packaging pull request mark No, no, no just this this text is good enough just to be sure others who might view the recording understand The Jenkins project already does not support Debian 9 and does not support Ubuntu 18.04. So that's that's not a Change in the sense that Debian 9 is suddenly supported or was supported before this it was not however, non-support and known to not not work are two very different things and In the past we didn't take active measures to lock someone out of an unsupported platform And this was not intended to lock anyone out this change is intended to fix this problem that was making it difficult for Users on supported operating systems to make use of Unix domain sockets So in order to fix that we accepted that Users on these outdated platforms Won't be able to continue using the Jenkins package installer if they want to use Jenkins on those unsupported platforms They'll have to switch to use the war file or to manage the service them of some of themselves some other way That's all I had to say. Thanks Thank you very much Mark and if I recall the packaging pull request does go through a lot of that information as well If people want to read further and understand a little bit more in-depth about what that means. So it's always available, right? Thank you very much Next up the Google Summer of Code again, we're gearing up towards that. We've got 34 proposals that were submitted for review The applicants can have begun to submit to Google as of March 18th So that'll close in early April. So probably in the next couple weeks in that sense And mentors are reviewing and commenting on the draft proposals, which ideally would have been completed by midnight last night so more to come on that and then Deft proposals can still be submitted through the Google forum listed in the Gitter channel So that's available as well in the GSOC Gitter Bruno any other insights notes for GSOC? Yeah, I'm afraid the draft proposals. It's not possible to submit them anymore The forum has been closed now. The thing is potential contributors have to submit their work to the GSOC portal by April the second and Then mentors will be able to assess and grade the proposals Until the end of April, I guess. So if you're a potential contributor Don't procrastinate Enter your proposal as soon as possible into the GSOC portal Great. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it that Bruno So next up Jenkins Community Awards. So the voting period has concluded. Thanks to everyone who participated either nominating or voting regardless of what you did really means a lot So the winners will be announced at CD con the week of April 15th in Seattle And so anyone who's one will be presented with the award there We'll have the Jenkins Awards and the CDF awards CDF community awards as a whole as well which include other projects and the CD foundation as a Whole thanks to all the voters Couldn't have got those votes couldn't it couldn't win anything without voting. So it's really important Next up the version documentation for Jenkins.io. So this has been an ongoing project as a result of Google summer of code 2023 thanks to both Chris Stern and Bandit Singh for their work on this It's been played a bit due to Azure cost savings measures that the infra team is currently working on They also have their hands full with a handful of other things that are just a little bit higher priority at the moment So we do have it. It's just a little bit of Lower priority at this point in time And the Jenkins blog was the most recent addition Yes, the blog has been moved from node to to the blog on the prototype site So that is going to be an update as well. That's coming with the version doc site. So I Don't know that there will be any Major changes to the content or anything like that. I think it's more just making sure that everything is a little bit more clear and what we're looking at so That's it, but that's a nice improvement to have and that's a good piece to have updated. So Really great there And then yeah, Bandit is the lead developer And is returning to Google summer code as a patent as a mentor, which is really exciting Chris Stern was the lead on that one originally when Google summer code was 2023 was in progress. So We've got really great folks on that and they've been working really really hard on this and diligently through exams and other commitments and everything else. So Just a lot of work and a lot of Patience on that is really appreciated. So thank you to both Chris and Vandy for all of that And there's further work to be done there. I'm still reviewing. We're so making sure that it's ready to go and then once we have The Azure cost savings in place once we have a better handle on some other things this will become One of the higher priority items again next step so Another Google summer code 2023 project that we're seeing through to completion is the usage of Docker compose in Tutorials and Jenkins documentation overall Bruno has been working on this for quite some time along with Ashutosh in their original project Bruno's been updating the Maven platform Python. No JS and now multi branch pipeline tutorials to you. I'll use Docker compose This is amazing fantastic. Just wonderful work. Thank you so much Bruno for this Ashutosh as well Yep for just All of this is great so That being said Bruno is also working on the Docker installation documentation at this point in time. So Things look to be going well, but there might be some Looks as though there might be something where Docker and Docker is a necessary evil if I'm doing that correctly Bruno Maybe maybe not if you don't mind I'd like to get your insight with three of you about that I'm wondering as I'm progressing with the rewriting of this guide or tutorial. I'm wondering. What is the end goal? Is it to get people up to speed with a running Jenkins instance while using Docker? So if that's the main goal, it will look more or less like the previous tutorials we addressed So it will be pretty short. I would say thanks to Docker compose or will it be that and on top of that a Detailed explanation of why it's working this way So should we dig a little deeper and talk about what's behind the curtain or even worse Or should we have a second approach that deals with? Okay, we've got something that works But we may build it your way with the plug-ins unit because we offer a lot of plug-ins with the default Installation using Docker compose, but maybe that's not the plug-ins you're looking for or Another step which would be Okay, we've got the thing that works all by itself We've got the thing that works with your plug-ins you want, but What about having a specific agent now with all the specific tools you need as you noted previously We already have something for Maven node a Python Go lang Android. So should we let people know how to generically? Add something a tool that they need to build a specific agent with Docker or and that's the problematic part for me all of that plus I'd like to build a Docker image Thanks to this Docker compose guide But I'm not so sure that's such a good idea this very last point because this is problematic Security wise as we would have to use Docker and Docker or Docker on Docker as far as I know So I don't know how far we'd like to go with this guy Hey, so Kevin, are you okay if I I'm gonna I'm gonna offer my Relatively strongly held opinion and let other people disagree with me Okay, so trying to trying to justify my opinion the other Jenkins install guides and we have several right we have Jenkins on Windows we have Jenkins on Linux. We have Jenkins with the warfare So so Jenkins on Windows is how do you install it with the MSI package? Jenkins on Linux describes how you install it with either a deb file or an RPM file and it describes it for Red Hat for Fedora for Debian for Ubuntu. So it then we've got how do you install with the war file and And eat and then we've got another page Which is how do you install on other systems that are not explicitly supported by the Jenkins project? But you could can refer to them like how to use brew or how to install on free BSD or Solaris So we've we've got each of those So for me those are the those are the fundamental concept of what the install section describes and each of them stops at the point where you've completed the Jenkins setup wizard and Installed the set of plug-ins that are in the setup wizard so for me that says the first alternative that Bruno offered is what's what's there in the What's already there in the existing install guides? We don't tell them how to install another plug-in We don't tell them how to manage their war-based installation or their Linux rpm-based or their deb-based installation with configuration as code We don't tell them how to build a docker container Because the install instructions are just to get you to the point of running this having completed the setup wizard that you've now got a Reasonable set of plug-ins installed and that set of plug-ins will do interesting and useful things So for me, I was thinking we should choose the first one on the list start a running Jenkins instance with Docker However, now let's take now. I'm going to put my lawyer for the devil hat on my devil's advocate hat, right and say But that's that's less than what the users need Right because many users will then ask, okay, how do I build a container image and The answer is you don't because in this environment It's not container image build capable, right? And the same story answers for the war-based installation for the rpm-based installation by default on any on the windows installation by default on any of those you can't Build a container image Because you have to do an awful lot of extra setup So my my sort of impassioned plea is I think we should stop at item one or possibly Item to explain why it works that way But even there we don't explain why No, maybe we do okay now again the lawyer stopping the lawyer for the devil has now realized We have a system D based installer, right? But we have an entire set of Instructions on how do you do things with system D? We have a page that talks about how do you manage things with system D? Separate from the install guide, but it's very much there, right? And so maybe this lobbies that we should Do option one start a running Jenkins instance with Docker and then have a separate page that talks about why it works that way and What they can do to extend it and what they can do to change various parameters, etc All right now. I'm going to stop talking and listen to other people So I actually agree with you mark on either the first or second one potentially being the what we go with for the installation page like you said, it's more It's more aligned with the other installation docs. We're not going and doing anything extra on those other pages If we don't want to set that precedent here, we shouldn't start But we also have things like the Docker like in the pipeline documentation section. There's Docker in using Docker in pipeline So there are other pages that exist for this sort of information adding a second page for you know post Docker installation setup or something might be An alternative that we could put together and that contains the why the customization stuff the agent specifics like those sort of things Where it's not necessarily the pipeline documentation because it's prior to that this this all this information would be before that happens so I see why it could go in the installation docs, but I think it might be worthy of its own separate page or even like a Bigger section of that installation docs or maybe we go with that that like Information but making it clear that it's specific for Docker and all of this Okay, Bruno your opinion Yeah, it means less work for me your proposal does that sounds kind of cool No, it totally makes sense. I was Afraid that I was too much enthusiastic and putting too many things into one just Installation guide and not installation and know everything about Docker So, yeah, maybe too many things at the same place But why not create new pages in the near future with all the rest of the information? I wanted to write into that thing So maybe the PR will be available in the coming weeks instead of the coming months then so that's pretty good news Well, and for me the the model that's used with the deb and the RPM installer where the install guide gives very short Short steps and tries to be as short as possible do this do this do this and you're done And you've got a deb based or an RPM based install that that aligns with the first and Then the added page that talks about system D and and this is how you do it Is is a good story to tell I think it really is so so we now Okay, good. So it sounds like you're okay with option one as the the target for this page with in the future the addition of Why does it work that way because? Teaching them about talking about Docker compose and how do you manage plugins under Docker compose? And how do you manage? How do you do your own deployment of with using a composed base solution? I think is very interesting and we'd get a lot of a lot of traction from people about oh, okay I could have my own little repository that looks like the Jenkins repository that was the basis for the install instructions and I extend it with my needs and still have it managed as Docker Yep, thank you for your insights folks Yeah, no, thank you Bruno for all the work and and creating the discussion and like putting this all out there We can't do this without that work and that initiation. So like thank you. You're welcome. Thank you Yeah, and like I'm more than happy to help with it in whatever way I can do whatever I can to help out building out those other pages And like putting that information down Because I think I think it would be really Beneficial for users to have that documentation in the Jenkins area because I know that we link to the Docker Documentation within like the Docker and pipeline page and other areas. So having it be there would be really convenient and You know take away that having to navigate other places to get that same information Yeah cool Yeah, a couple other things to need to be taken care of with the position of doc close up No, this is all really great again. Thanks to Bruno and us for their work on this Yeah, and we'll see more updates going forward Next up. So I'm something that we've been discussing and that's being worked on still JFrog reached out asked if they could be attributed as a sponsor for Jenkins that IO. We said yes, absolutely That's the right thing and then we decided well, we want to have a proper Sponsor attribution for all sponsors and have potentially have a separate page for that so that conversation has been had Basil crows taken it upon himself to create the sponsor attributions draft and Has this has been working on this the discussion has been ongoing in governance board meetings So this is something that still being developed still being worked on and Basil Does that now have access to More detailed information so that we can figure out what levels everyone would ideally be at and what their sponsorships would essentially Be measured by in terms of levels Anchor the highest gold silver bronze Accordingly and mirrors are a different type of sponsorship. So they would have their own category in and of itself as well Yeah, so that's still ongoing and we'll have more details when they're available Just this week, we had a few pull requests come through from the user of Pythor hub aka students you so again Just wanted to say thank you for the contributions. I've been able to review two of the three pull requests One just came in a couple hours ago. So I haven't had a chance to sit down and look through it But I did leave a comment on it because it looked as though some of the work They had been doing on another pull request. Yeah So this was one of the this was the first one they opened up and it looks as though their most recent one includes Updates that they had made to the parent palm information. So I was able to at least comment and Up and share that because I wasn't sure if that was intended or if this was meant to just stick to that. So Yeah, for the reviews needed. I know that Jivnik had been also commented on one of them and actually added some insight. Yeah, so Thanks to them for also helping with that And yeah, these have been really receptive the contributors been on top of things and making updates as requested. So yeah, great Great to see. Thank you so much. And yeah more to come on that as well Then the last thing that I had on the agenda It's not defend anyone if no one else has anything was Gavin mogen recently commented in the doc skitter channel that The doc sig page itself is a little out of date or it needs to be updated So I'm working on this right now, but basically making sure that the members are all up to date Making sure that descriptions are correct topics are correct, etc but looking at the projects a Good amount of these are in a completed status or in the epic that they're linked to has at least been closed Or completed. So a lot of these are past projects and need to be labeled properly in that sense. So I'm going through reworking some of the Phrasing and stuff in here so that it is more accurate And then just yeah, I'm putting I'm working on that right now to make sure that this is As current as it can be so More to come on that and there'll be pull requests that I'll submit for review on that So Kevin Kevin back to that page if we can because Bruno you and I I think need to do something similar for platform SIG so right now what what my thought was is in Terms of participants anyone who's not attend ox attended Docs office hours in the last year and Not submitted a pull request in the last year should be dropped from the list to the Jenkins Docs a Year is more than enough time to say they're not a participant And what that would do is reduce this list to leads Mark Wait and Kevin Martin's and because I lead Asia and he leads Europe you us and with you Bruno on the participants list Meg McRoberts on the participants list and Chris Stern on the participants list and And that's I think We don't have enough other active participants to put them on the participants list We've had one or two who drop in occasionally and if they drop in more frequently we can add them Yeah, and even worse than that. I think we have a SIG that does not exist anymore Wasn't there a hardware or something SIG? I think we got rid of that from the so so the SIG list right now is as far as I know showing active SIGs but we've certainly had a number of SIGs in the past that are no longer active like Cloud native SIG it existed and there are if you look in the history of the site You can find information about Clayton cloud native SIG, but it's long since not been not been an active SIG So those as far as I know the list of SIGs is accurate We just need to to be sure that let's let's admit that it's time to update the lead and participants list this one It was particularly glaring because I haven't led the Docs office hours us for What a year or more Kevin, right? I mean, it's been a very long time since I was leading this this session Yeah, outside of a couple instances when I've been out or haven't been able to it's been over a year now So Yeah, and then I know I know we mentioned the list of participants run I'm also going to make sure Von Dietz in there. So I mean between Von Dietz and Chris Von Dietz even if he doesn't show up to the yeah, that's that's a clear place where you're absolutely right Von Dietz should be listed there as a contributor because as a participant because he's very much involved in Docs Yes, absolutely. And so yeah, so I'm also trying to keep that in mind even if folks don't necessarily show up to office hours every week The contributions don't matter. So Right. Good. I good. I good thought very good But yeah, and so yeah, so I'm gonna be working on updating this page making sure that everything's labeled accordingly Anchors and a couple other things that I've seen that need to be adjusted. But yeah Also adjusted the time frame here since it's an hour earlier than what it says, but Yeah, so that's just something that Gavin had mentioned recently on Jkitter and wanted to and I wanted to address that So we're doing we're taking the steps Uh anything else that anyone wants to talk about today or does that cover every every idea anyone had? All right, we are at time. So We'll go ahead and start the recording in just a second here It'll be the video be available in 24 to 48 hours. We'll cross post on community Discourse and as always take care. Stay safe and until next week. Thank you and have a good rest of your day