 If I had to pick of all the players that I've ever picked, the people that I would go to battle with ever in my life, he is on that team. If I had to make a 15-man roster of people that I've been in battles with, I've looked eye to eye. Like there were times where like Kenyan and Jake Kidd were heard and me and him are looking at each other. I'm like, well, how many pick-and-rolls are you going to set for me? He's like hundreds. And we would just go out there and do it because again, we came in as rookies. We were together for six years and all the playoffs. So we had so much brotherhood there from a competitor before you even got to our college and high school histories. And so no, like when we crack jokes about this stuff, I just want to make sure that like Jason said, treat your friends like you've always treated your friends. Don't change them. Like our conversation and even my conversation, how I interact with all my teammates now that I'm in the media side is still the same. I still give chanting shit. I still troll brown. I still make fun of J.R. I do the same things I always do. Hey, Road Trippin fam. We are excited to let you know that Road Trippin is proud to be presented by FanDuel. Never played NBA Daily Fantasy on FanDuel before? Well, check this out. Right now, FanDuel is offering up to a $500 bonus instantly when you make your first deposit with a 20% deposit match. Why should you play on FanDuel NBA? Well, for one, it is easy to use when it comes to their app. What's not to love about that? But also, for example, they offer different and unique contests across sports in relation to your skill level. Oh yeah, and get this. You can play for big prizes, single game contests for the biggest national matches, and inner contests for as low as five cents. That's right. Five cents. Simply incredible. So again, let's recap. Right now FanDuel is offering up to a $500 instantly when you make your first deposit with a 20% deposit match. Enter urlfanduel.com backslash Road Trippin to play now and get your deposit bonus. That's urlfanduel.com backslash Road Trippin so they know we sent you. FanDuel, more ways to win. This episode of Road Trippin is brought to you by Bourbon Time. Even if you don't have the traditional nine-to-five schedule, there is no denying that this past year has changed the way work and rest intersect. Without a designated office to come home from, we're kind of missing that little natural break in our days. Our friends at gym being recognized this phenomenon, and they want to help us out. Beat the burnout. Start blocking off the hours of six to seven p.m. as your me time, a little me time, Allie. Oh, have it for a bit. To do what you love for you and only you. I love a good me time. Me, I need about eight to 10 hours of me time a day. Channing, he needs all the me time, doesn't he? No, he needs all the me time. I just need one hour. Give me a hot tub, give me a cold drink, and give me some good music, and I'm good to go. So that gym beam goes down so smooth. So smooth. Just a little eight to 10 hours of me time a day, and I'm just fine. I'm very tolerable. Let's make the idea of Bourbon Time a reality. Join me in reclaiming six to seven p.m. as the happiest hour so you can do whatever it is that makes you happy. And if that involves a glass of bourbon, remember to drink gym beam responsibly. Gym beam Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume. Copyright 2021, Gym Beam Brands Corporation, Chicago, Illinois. Cheers. Cheers. Welcome into this edition of Road Trip and presented by Fandle. I'm your host, Allie Clifton. Alongside Richard Jefferson, you see him right there. Are you taking no idea? Channing Fry. You have no idea. It has been like five months since we've been in the studio. We are excited to be in the studio, and there's no better way to kick off being back in the studio than with our guests that I have just learned so much about in the last, like, 10 minutes. He's an NBA Cares ambassador. He's a longtime NBA vet. He's played for seven teams, six teams, nine teams. Six franchises. He's Richard's best friend. Channing said we only can listen to him during this episode. His name is Jason Collins. Jason Collins. Hello. Welcome to the pod. Cheers, my friend. Everybody just needs to know this. He hasn't been drinking. This is his first sip, but he is already, because he knows what he's in for, because, yeah. I know anytime I'm in a room with Richard, it's like, you got to be on, because like, he won't let you be off. Like, he won't let you just sit and be quiet. Like, he's like, we had a nickname for, we call him a golden retriever. He was the golden retriever. Okay. So it was the Rottweiler. Just run around happy like a golden retriever. Okay. So if he's a golden retriever, and you have to worry most about Richard, then what about Channing? Because I feel like he's the worst. So Channing's cool. Yeah. Cause you were teammates with my brother. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Big, big, big, big, big, big, jaren. Man, listen, he, he lost so much money playing poker. I'm not trying to put his business out there. But I had to talk to him about a son like, Hey, jaren, this ain't for you. We need to switch games. You may need to play 21. He knuckle. Oh, look, no, he got. Hey, but he played the numbers by the end of the year. He came back when he was getting boxed. Wait, those games are hilarious. So like twin, so we used to, we called him twin because in our rookie summer league, we had two jacons. And so they were like, what's Jason talking about? Then we'd like, oh, the one that has a twin. No, no, no, the other Jason was Jason kid. That Jason keeps his name. You got to change. You got to change it, obviously. So it was just funny, like when he would come and gamble, right? He already knows the type of shit he would do. So he would come up there, right? And we'd be playing poker. This one poker was big. He would pull out his wallet and put out the money. He would put down the bet, put it, fold his money back up, put it back in his wallet. Then one time he wins like a big hand, big hands came in like halfway through the flight, play three hands, won the biggest hand of the day, took all the money and left and just left, which is like the number one. You do not do. And he wasn't a rookie. He was in like his, like we were probably in like our fourth or fifth year. And so he knows the rules, literally took up like a few thousand dollars and just left. And all the dudes literally wanted to just cuss him out. They didn't let him play for like two months after that because of what he did. They got a little sensitive. They got a little sensitive. Who's better at poker? You're your brother. Technically, the only time we played a tournament that was like legit tournament, we actually played in Vegas at the main event. Or it was like one of the side terms, but I finished out of 3,000 people. I finished 55th. 55th. How'd your brother do? Damn. But he was there giving me support. He was there giving me support. Yeah, because I gained a new level of respect for professional poker players, because it's the mental side of it. Like sitting at a table, you have to read cards. You have to read people's body language. You have to do all these things like like, and then you're doing calculations. Okay, what's the odds of this? Plus you're worrying about blinds, annies, like the whole, like the whole, I really gained a level of appreciation and respect for those players who sit at those tables constantly. Because you make, I made it to the day three of the tournament. Like 55, yeah, out of 3,000. But you know, it was, it was a great learning experience. It was fun. It was fun. It was fun. Do you still play? No, I haven't played since the pandemic. I haven't played since, before the pandemic, yeah, I would go down to Hollywood Park Casino here or commerce. But since the pandemic, no, just things change. There's like 10 phrases that I'm not allowed to use with you. There's like 10 phrases that I was like, can I say this to them? And they're like, no. I was like, can I say this to them? They're like, no. Can I say this to them? What are you talking about? You just, we're going to get into it. We're going to get into it. Let's go. What? No, we'll get into it. We'll ease in there. We'll ease into it. It's so awkward. What? Yeah, we're going to ease into it. Can we please put Channing on? Yeah, thank you. Is 2021, dawg? No, no, no. I wasn't talking about easing to it like that. I was more referencing like, I figured like, we have like a lot more catching up to do before we get to that. Man, I get nervous when someone's to ease into it. Cut. See, that's it. Those are the jokes. Those are the jokes I'm not allowed to make. All right, Channing. So what? So what now, Channing? You go, okay. So I was walking down the tunnel in Phoenix with Jaren. And after Jason had, you know, told the world, uh, and so I was just like, Hey, what, you know, dude, I didn't even know, obviously I didn't know. But I was like, have you talked to him yet? What's that like? He was like, yeah, I called him. And I was like, what's the first thing you asked him? He was like, aren't you too big for that? Wow. And when I tell you, I was on the concrete crying, laughing. But like at the end of the day, he was like, this is my brother. I don't care. It was like the best, literally the most like true, truest form of love I've ever heard. And after then I've been the biggest fan of Jaren. He is like the salt of the earth. You didn't like him before. No, I did. Jaren's a dirty player. And I'll tell him Jaren tried to break my arm one time when he played for Utah. So I was like, man, fuck this dude. No, they are there. Some of the dirtiest brothers in NBA history. You play physical up into a certain point. You don't cross the line of being dirty, but there's a way to be physical without being dirty. And that's what I tried to do. I failed a couple times. I apologize, Reggie Miller. I know that was that was my bad. Was that your one moment? No, I got kicked out. So he got a lot of moments. I've had moments. Shaq tried to kill him. Shaq tried to kill everybody. Lafonzo Ellis, though, it was it was bad because I got into him with him. And then the next day or the day after he played Utah and then he had to play Jaren. So he was still sitting there. Something that I had done. So he took it out on Jaren. And Jaren was like, what did I do? Oh, you look like him. Yeah, you like Lafonzo Ellis, Danny Fortin, like a cordless wing, like who just, you know, you play tough. And again, you don't back down. Like you just you play physical. But you try never to cross the line. And again, I got that flagrant flagrant too far against Reggie. That was my bad. And then also Tim Thomas. I'm sorry about that, Tim. No, no, but Tim. But Tim, I don't know. First of all, no one deserves anything, any type of injury. But he tried to dunk on me. He could have handled it differently. He tried to dunk on me. I didn't appreciate that. Tim Thomas? Yeah, Tim Thomas tried to dunk. He tried to go up and I tried to go up with him. I stopped at like the fifth floor. He kept on going up. And I ended up like hitting his arm. And then I didn't really follow through. But just like, I'm a big guy. He's a big guy. He fell awkwardly and they had to get the stretcher and, you know, carry him off the court. Just let what you didn't know that this is one thing went like, you know, people talk about like homosexuals and sports and whatever. I'm like, look, the two craziest people that I've probably had on my team and I'm like excluding like Kenyan Martin, who was like a physically just aggressive dude, like Jason Collins and Michael Wright are two of the toughest guys that I've ever played with. Like he, Jason didn't score that much. He averaged about five, seven, four. You're a great player. He would just, he would just claw people. I like put you out there and I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. So, but that was the coolest thing is something that I also, now that I teach the next, you know, you're, you know, imparting your wisdom to the next generation is once you cross the line, it's okay to be like aggressive and it's actually to the, the betterment of your team if you are more aggressive than that your opponent. So when you cross that line, you can become a totally different person. And that's kind of what I was. And like you cross the line back off, you know, smiling, laughing all that way. I cross that line. You know, I'm taping my wrist. I got my mouthpiece in. I got knee pads. I fucked somebody up. So our rookie year, we play against Shaq in the finals. They murder us, right? But this dude is having to guard Shaq. We're rookies. You're 22. I'm 21. We're having, he's having to guard Shaq in the finals. I'm having to guard Kobe Bryant. We're getting obliterated, right? So the next year, all these lazy kids out there, the next year, you know what our coaches tell us? Hey, we'll see you guys for Summer League in three weeks. Right? So we go from playing in the NBA finals. Kids don't even do Summer Leagues now if they're drafted. They're like, well, I don't know. And I had a little ankle sprain. So I'm out. We point from playing in the NBA finals our first year to going right to Summer League. This dude fouled out in every game in Summer League because he had been guarding Shaq. So then he tried to use the same physicality. It was just clubbing. It's true. The refs, and this speaks to just like Shaq, like how strong he was, but also like how professional he was, because he got murdered. Like he got, we got to beat him up. And sometimes he, you know, he would give you this, Cliff Robinson used to call it the spine tingler. He would give you that meat hook. And all of a sudden your whole sparring gets compressed. I caught the meat hook in New York. Yeah. Hey, he was bullshitting for three quarters. And then all of a sudden he goes, Hey, little fry, sorry, we have to win this game. Hit me with this. Next thing you know, I went black and I'm in a station. I looked at Isaiah Thomas and Larry Brown like, Hey, this isn't going to work no more. This isn't going to work no more. I want to live. I want to live. Yeah. He's one of those guys that you just don't, because I would always, when I was playing against him, I would try to be like, Hey, Shaq, how's it going, man? How's family good? Everything okay? No, you do not want it. Like you just like, you don't, don't poke that bear. Like just don't, don't, because you know that side of him. Because you've seen it with Greg Oster tag and sometimes with the Kimbe, he comes through with that. Every big David Robinson, every big, he just sent a physical message. Yeah. He'll flip a switch on you. Okay. You said like, there's that line that like, once you cross it, yeah, who was that one guy that made you cross that line? Oh God. Um, I tried not to, uh, there wasn't there that I would say Danny Fortin was one of those guys who you just, it wasn't that, but like you had, you had to meet his physicality. Like you, you couldn't let him, and no one's stronger than Danny. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we had like players on our team like Roddy Rogers, who were fucking just country strong like kind of guys, but, um, like an A train. But yeah, there are some guys, you just, you can't back down from them, but they always would, you know, try to say, let's just say this, Danny Fortin would smoke marble reds at half time. Danny Fortin, Danny Fortin unfiltered, unfiltered new ports at half time. He was rolling his own cigarettes like, wow, wow, wow. Yeah. I appreciate that. I like, you know, I like the challenge. That's what as a professional athlete, you have to love the challenge. Um, whether it's you know, someone trying to be more physical than you or just has more skill and talent than you. And it's like, okay, how can I compete? Like, how am I going to, uh, you know, stay on the same court with this dude and, and help my team win? It always came back to the team. And, and, and that's one thing that, you know, as going back, like we had known each other. I think I might have met him in high school, I'm not sure, but obviously he goes to Stanford. I go to Arizona. And so I get there and Luke is my roommate. I don't know any of the California state basketball where he's laughing. I don't know any of the state California basketball championship stuff, but I know California is the best state in the country when it comes to basketball. So Luke gets there and I'm like, oh yeah, we play in Stanford. He's like, fucking hate Stanford. And I'm like, I was like, I was like, yeah, okay. He's like, no, I got the cons ones. I can't stand them. And I was like, why can't you stand them? Right? It's like, and then he goes, dude, two years in a row, state championship, him and his brother and add other good players. And then Luke Walton's team was from San Diego, him and his brothers, they never lost. These idiots never lost. And they would always meet in the state tournament two consecutive years. One game goes over time. One game is close. And whoever wins that game is going to win the state championship. Both times Luke Walton loses. So then fast forward this dude. So Luke wins the state championship here. But now we're our rival at Stanford. So Luke is embedding hate in me. And I was like, yeah, fuck those guys. Let's go get them. And then we just like that was back when the pack 12 like actually had substance. They're coming back. They had a good run this year. They had a good run in March Manacys. Yeah. But no, women did. Heck yeah. Oh, yeah. But no, no, no, I'm just saying. Johnny Juzanne. Here we go. Just that long history we had before we even got to the Brooklyn ads. So like all of a sudden, you're drafted with a guy that you've just been like hating for three years. And it was it's funny because I don't I don't carry that that hate with me. Like I like again, I'm I was really good at separating when I cross a line. Like when I'm on the court, yeah. Yeah. In fact, I led the league in fouls one year. Like I was that physical guy. But when the game was, you know, when I tried to keep all that like that negative stuff, you know, on the court and just like, you know, try to live my life over here. Plus I'm dealing with the fact that, you know, I'm in the closet. I don't want to stress that question because in my head, I'm thinking like, where does that stem from in terms of like having that within you of being physical and having that mindset? And then to your point, just because he likes boys doesn't mean he's not physical. Beef with you. I got beef with you. Okay. Okay. So many years ago, there was nothing to do with this. Hang on. Hang on. I know where this is going. So is it okay if he tells it? Yes, of course. So years and years ago, and this man wants to speak about being he wants to speak about being closeted. Oh, now he wants to come out. So this would happen. Same. Just like how you were talking about how you were talking to Jared chatting. So this dude back in 2004, there was maybe 2005 or six, there was like rumors going around that there was a player on the nets that was like closeted gay and like homosexual. And so people started looking at me and I'm like, no, shut up, shut your face, shut your face. People started looking at me and I'm like, that ain't me. What are you guys talking about? Only two people. And I don't even think Eddie house knows this two people. Eddie house comes up to me right like a practice like this like BS story comes out. And so he comes with me like, Hey, Richard, man, some people are saying some stuff. I just want to know if it's true. Right. And I was like, no, it's not true. He's like, all right, cool. And then went about his business. And then I get a text from this dude. And he goes, I just want to let you know, I got your back. Right. Yeah. So I'm thinking, so in my heart, listen, in my mind, in my mind, so then in my mind, I'm like, you know what, you know what? That's my guy. We got drafted together. We've been in finals together. We've been like, that's my guy fast forward 10 years later. All of a sudden my phone starts blowing up. Yo, do you see, did you see someone sends me the screenshot of the Sports Illustrated article? And I saw, I was like, yo, what did he say? Yeah, I've been meaning to tell you. And I go, mother, you came out back and have all these people thinking I'm the one out there like that first, first of all, I didn't, uh, I wasn't ready to come out. So everyone's on their own path and schedule. So I never, oh, I get it. I didn't know if it was. So I, and again, I never actually said I was gay till I was 32 years old. 32, 33, 32, 33 years old was the first time I ever said the words. I am gay and told another living soul. I didn't go on a date or have any kind of experience with the man until after experience, like any kind of Oh my God. Unbelievable. Any kind of experience. I got you. If you just want to stay on, yeah, I got you. I was, I always went down that rabbit hole. Yeah. But yes, okay. Do you really want to know? Do you really want to know? No. Okay. Who would have ever guessed this would have been our most entertaining show? No. So I don't have until, uh, until after, so that Sports Illustrated article came out on a Monday, I didn't have an experience with the man until that Friday. Oh, you would move quick. So again, I was 33, 34 years old. So I was, I got time to make, I got to make up for some, you know. Oh, you're saying from the article. Yeah, from the article. Coming out. Yeah. So there was no way that anybody would ever suspect that I, in my mind, there's no way that they could suspect that I was gay because I was still in such complete denial at that point. Yeah. But if I did have a gay teammate or a closeted teammate or someone who was, I would want them to know that I was going, regardless, I would have their back. Yeah. That I was going to be a good teammate and that I would actually say the words. No, no. He, no. To look, the reason I'm sorry that you, I'm sorry that they put you out there. You know where that story originated from. I, we, yeah, we know where that's, we know, we know who was planting the, there was a disgruntled people that was around our, our, our team and situation. But we don't, look, this is not that type of podcast. We don't talk about that type of gossip. Real talk though, like, I will say this from not even, not even being that way. But have it because I remember it vividly because my ankle was messed up. That's when I had to have surgery on my ankle. So I'm going out and performing like just trying to remember I was getting cortisone shots of my ankle. This was right. I don't remember. I think Jake Kidd was coming back from some sort of injury or something. So our team was right. Somebody was right. We were right on the cusp of making the postseason and I'm like, I can't do it anymore. I'm not going to get seven cortisone shots. I had to get bone spurs out. So I was having things said about me while I was not healthy. So like that combination was just brutal because you can't go out there. Your court isn't, isn't like your, your safe confines where people can get away on the court because you're just, your body is not right. And then off the court, you're having people said things about you. So I will say this, like not knowing what you were dealing with. I did appreciate that support because I was in a, you know, I was in a tough spot. I'm like, yo, this ain't true. My ankle's messed up. I don't know what's going on. So, you know, that part, I don't have beef with you, but I'm like, you could have saved a lot of, a lot of rumors and questions if you just came out. Again, I wasn't ready, but I'm glad. How old were you at this time? Like, when was that? 25, 26. Oh. Yeah, we were like 26. We're like right in our primes, right? Like, yeah, I had no idea. Okay. So what is that process like though? No, no, Channing. We got to go back because I know too much of this dude's story. Oh, go back. Okay. So, but no, no, no, but I want to know, and I mean this as a brother. Like, you know, legitimately, like, as much as you were like, like step brothers, right? Like, we're still brothers. Right? Because everyone's, everyone's going to laugh, but these are the conversations that him and I have all the time, but like you were engaged, right? And I know you've talked about this stuff. And I remember your fiance, I remember the first time you walked through the hallway. I want, no, I remember when you walked through the hallway. Me and Jake kid were going out and you were coming back in and you had just gone on like your first date. I think I don't remember where we were, but you were like starry eyed, right? Like that was not, as a young man, I was trying to lie to myself. Okay. And I, even from junior high school, when I first started dating women, I always had it in my mind that I would find the right woman who would make all these feelings that I had go away. And it does not work like that. So, um, yes, you can, and you can. Like if we were, I would say, like, I can, you could fall in love with someone for the person, the human being that they are, but, uh, when it comes down to sexual orientation, are you physically attracted to them? Are you like, does that, like, what do you, like what revs your engine kind of thing? What revs your engine? What revs my engine? Yeah. Do you really want to know? God, I love you so much. So, but I was still trying to figure that out in my 20s. And, um, and yes, I was dating someone, got engaged, thankfully called off the wedding because I have since that time, and obviously since coming out, I have so many, met so many people who did get married and then were in loveless marriages and then would start stepping out and like living two separate, like, and that's, that's, that's not something you wish on anyone kind of thing. So, um, I just wish that I'd figured all that out. Me too. But, okay, good. But I think that there's a lot of people who have, who I've met who have, um, similar stories. Yeah. And, and as, again, it took me until I was 32, 33 years old before I even said the word that I am gay and accepted it. Yeah. Well, look, I had your back. I had your back. Thank you. I appreciate that. I had your back the same way you had my back, right? Because it wasn't about sexual orientation. It's about, to me, it was about respect for the individual. Yeah. Right? Like, we, we had known each other for years. You, like, you came out and you, like, you had my back in a spot where, like, again, we're talking about 2006, like. And the country was different then. The country was even 15 years ago. The country is different. And all of a sudden, it's like, all of this stuff gets said about you and whatever. It's like, you know, it's demasculating. You're like, no, and then you don't want to, like, you're not going to go, like, go and overcompensate. I remember being and seeing Mike Piazza had a press conference. Right? Mike Piazza had a press conference. He's not the only professional athlete who's had a, uh, had a, you know, had a press conference or, uh, done an article and be like, I really like girls. Sure you do. So, wait, what is that? Okay. So two, two part question. Like, what is that like on a daily for you in the league with your feelings doing that? Right? Just, it doesn't have to be too personal, but like, you know, for anybody listening, they'd want to know, like, was there more? Like, was there a lot of acting about it? Because like, for instance, I would work out in Phoenix with like Mike Bibby, um, kind of forgot his name, the quarterback for the Eagles back in the day. Donovan McNabb, Donovan McNabb. Yeah. Donovan McNabb. A bunch of guys that we worked out with John Amici and it was like, whatever. And then when he came out, I was like, okay, I like, whatever, like no big deal. But to come out back then, to come out now, that's the first part. What was it like on a daily? And then secondly, how much has things changed from then to now? And how much do you expect it to change from now till another 15 years later? Like, do you see and feel progress to where now we can joke like this? And it's not like, you know what I'm saying? Everyone's so much more comfortable, I feel. Yes. And I think that speaks to the issue that our country has changed and is changing for the better. We still have roadblocks. There are still obstacles, but in a general sense, things are getting better. For me, back in the day on a daily, it was focus on my job. There are so many people who are dealing with an issue. It isn't just about your, it could be about whatever issue is going on in your life that you, the elephant in the room that you don't want to address. So you sort of, okay, what can I outlet? What outlet can I do? For me, it was my job. Do my job, focus on basketball. Everything is about basketball. So everything was fine because I had that outlet. I had that daily routine until the lockout. And then when that daily routine gets disrupted, it's like, okay, shit, I don't have this outlet. What am I going to do for the rest of my life? When this outlet, because father time is ticking, what's going to happen then? As far as the environment now for, I'm in contact with closet athletes, again, everyone's on their own path. But for some reason, I was expecting with my story, with Robbie Rogers and Major League Soccer with the LA Galaxy winning a title with them. When I came back with the Mets, everybody, you know, you have that all that talk. It's going to be a distraction. We went 10-2 in my first 12 games. We ended up making the playoffs, beating Toronto in Toronto in the first round in Game 7. That's not that hard, by the way. Come on now. Game 7 in Toronto. It was the loudest I've ever been. It was a great place. It's a great place. And great place. It was the first time where I could hear, you know that Jurassic Park outside? Yeah. Like you could hear the people outside the building. You hear the second wave, because they'll see it like a few seconds later. So you hear the roar, and a few seconds later you hear a second roar come. It was so cool. It was awesome. Like if I was a professional athlete, I would love to play in front of an environment like that. But anyways, we ended up beating them. So I was expecting there to be more male athletes stepping forward. Because when I was a young kid, and I was looking for, okay, who are the gay sports heroes that I could look to? The only one I could look to on TV at my time was Martina Navratilova. And she's an idol. I absolutely idolize her. And before her, it was Billie Jean King. So female athletes were leading the way. And even now, to Channing's point, like what's going on today, again, it's still female athletes leading the way with regards to living their life, speaking their truth. And you can look no further than WNBA, Sue Bird, Brittany Griner, Elena Deladon. The list goes on and on. Diana Tarasi of Hall of Famers who are stepping forward and speaking their truth. And you can see with the most dynamic couple, maybe in all of professional sports, as far as two athletes being Sue Bird and Megan Rapinoe, just living their life and setting that example. And I'm hoping that there's going to be another athlete, like me, a male athlete, who's looking at them is going to be inspired by them, because you don't see it in the world of male sports right now. What you do see is that the leagues have improved incredibly since, even the time that I stepped forward in 2013, NBA, WNBA were the first to march in the New York City Pride Parade. Since that time, all the other major sports leagues are now participating in the New York City Pride Parade. I've been in New York during that, obviously, when we lived there. What do you wear to that parade? So the NBA will give you, so you usually wear jeans, jeans in a t-shirt. I look, look, I fully support you. I fully, why are you looking at me? First of all, you know what I'm talking about. No, so this is great. We're going to have the conversation. If you haven't been in New York during that parade. Yeah, you will see everything. You will see everything. So you're asking specific to him, like what? Yeah, I'm asking like he's my boy. So when the NBA float, we usually have a t-shirt and you could wear jeans. But if you were on your own time? As far as on my own time, I wear shorts and I actually wear shorts, because it's usually pretty hot. Shorts in a t-shirt. I'm not doing the whole Leather Daddy thing. That's not me. You know, to each their own, if everybody wants to do it, you know, you could go do it. But the cool thing was I remember Michael Beasley, because there are straight allies who actually are on the float. You know, after this, you and Ange Annie could come on to the float. If you call me, I'll be there to support you. You're my brother. Yeah, so you all could come on the float. Yeah, I'll support you. But when you turn up Fifth Avenue, it is New York City Pride Parade is the largest in our country, probably the largest pride parade in the world. The whole street, Fifth Avenue, from the village all the way up to Midtown, lined with people, rainbow flags, the whole thing. It's beautiful to see. Have you been to any of the after parties? I have not been to an after party for the New York City Pride Parade. Which one have you been to an after party? I went to, okay, so this is funny. So I came out in 2013. I thought I was, you know, I was going to be, I bellowed the ball. You get your toenails painted, you don't think it's shall now. Yeah, we'll talk about the toenails. Shrek. We do need to talk about his toenails in a second. So he tells Allie, he tells Allie her nails are nice. Her nails are incredible. I'm like, no, I'm like, no, he's saying that because he's probably going to get that color. No. That's what you, oh God. Yeah, so this is, so here we go, here we go, here we go, here we go, here we go. And we show, you all can see the toes. We're showing toes. But wait a second. Wait, I don't, yeah, is that a French tip though? It is a French tip. You ask you. I did not put, I didn't think I was going to be showing my toes on. I thought for a second, you just needed a pedicure. It's a French tip. It is a French tip. You can't talk about some toenails. It is definitely, anyways. I know Dave, first of all, DeWay paints his toenails. Yes. He was like, yeah, my toenails are black. It goes, I might as well shellac them with a gloss. Yes. So I guess I will be getting that color soon. But I'm inspired now. But anyway, so I go to the Abbey in West Hollywood. Okay. Which is the biggest gay bar in town. And I'm thinking, okay, I'm going to be the bell of the ball. I'm coming in there. You know, I'm going to, and this is, uh, yeah, in June of 2013, I go in there and all of the gay men in there were like, Hey, how's it going? Like no clue who I was. No clue. No clue. Yeah. The lesbians, all they knew. I had to say to be like a standard typical like, but like the lesbians, no sports. All the lesbians like flocked to me. They were like, oh, hey, you're with Jason Collins. So I was once again surrounded by women. I was like, okay, this cool. I know how to do this. So you became really good friends with a total lesbian. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Lesbians are great. I love lesbians. Wow. You know, so wonderful. I have, I had a lot of them as my college. She meets the college. Can straight males say that? Love them to death. What? He's not straight. He's not straight. And I say that. Oh, that you love lesbians? No, can I say that? Can a straight male say lesbians are awesome? Yes. Yes. Yes. 1,000%. 1,000%. We're about to dance. Straight females can be like gay dudes are awesome. I think that's actually a conversation. What? What? That, just like what Channing brings up, because I think that is in all fairness. And I also think that it's a shift in a moment that we are in right now. You know, what's acceptable, what's not, what is appropriate, what's respectful, what is not. So as long as you're coming from a place of genuine respect, like you just said, it's respect. And that you truly have like a good heart and good intentions behind what you're saying. Even if you misspeak, it's okay. And then it's not that it's on the person in the moment to correct you, but it's an, I'll say it's an opportunity for someone to say, hey, I get where you're coming from and I love the support, but why don't we use this word instead? Or this term. Yes, exactly. But, um, yes. And we all know when someone is coming from a place of bad intentions or someone is coming from a place of good intentions. And that's, and that's where like, I know people are going to see this. That's exactly why. I know people are going to see this and think that, oh, well, Richard's saying these things, they're cracking jokes. We've, we've been brothers for 20, 20 years. We've known each other for 25. Which is crazy though. I know it's crazy. But he's got the same haircut though. He always did bald. You know what's really funny is because he's so bald and so shiny. Our makeup artist, Genesee, was chasing him down the hallway to like. Oh yeah. No, powder. But yeah, powder over there. He wouldn't accept it. The point that I was going to make is like, hey, look, I'm not saying that if your buddy comes out to talk to the way that we have like a history and like I would shoot him texts and say stuff or he would shoot me text. You got to put context behind everything. Okay. Like you can't just. Why? Rich sometimes forgets that part. Yeah. So if you want to also the context. We, we, yes. If you saw some of the text messages. Yeah. There's a back and forth. Yeah. So he's cracking jokes about. But that, but that is why when you do come out, you want your friends to still be your friends and just still like have that relationship that you were before. And our friendship has always been like, you know, a little bit trash talking, you know, a little bit, you know, you know, especially. You, you, you gave us enough, you gave me, you gave me so much more ammo. No, but I feel, but I really just gave myself an opportunity to really. So I can always. Okay. So what happened on the moment? And his, and his, and his default is like, do you really want to know? I'm like, no, I don't want to know, dude. I just, how are you doing? You good? How's everything? How's Elsa? How's your brother? How's your kids? Like how the kids, what's going on? So. Okay. I do, I do want to ask you a question. Before we kind of wrap up that discussion, if you will. Yeah. Because I remember my first year here, I believe it was 2018, 2019, that season. Okay. You accepted the award with Jeannie Buss. Yes. Yes. Yes. I think just from that moment, the league, as a part of like what we all are a part of, I know there is the element of the world and outside and that growth, but for you to be in the league, to come out while in the league, and then to be standing there, you know what I'm saying? Just the acceptance, the love that you're seeing. It's so cool to see sports leagues, sports franchises have Pride Night Games. I think that that, when I accepted that award, was the Lakers first ever Pride Night Game. So my goal as an NBA Cares Ambassador is to, and you can't mandate this, but you want to sort of create that culture where at a minimum, all of our franchises have a Pride Night Game to celebrate the LGBTQ community, their fans, their employees, people in their organization, top to bottom. It's just, so I am, every time there is a Pride Night Game in there, especially when it's a Lakers, my hometown team, and I remember being a kid and going to Laker games. And so very honored. And Jeannie is, she's just an incredible human being. I love Jeannie Buss. She's just like cool people. She really is. You would, yeah, most down to earth, like boss. That's a stupid question. Yeah, Jeannie, we're used to it. What does Q stand for? Okay, so LGBTQ, all right, let's go through it. L, lesbian, G, gay, B, bisexual, T, transgender, Q is either queer or questioning. And then you also have, you'll see LGBTQIA. Jeez, have it come on now. Here we go, yes. All right, it's for intersex. Yeah. Do you know what intersex is? I don't. No, I don't know how to eat this stuff, dude. So when we were growing up, it would have been hermaphrodite. But it's now the term, but intersex is now the term. Oh, okay, okay. What's the term? What was the original term? Hermaphrodite. Hermaphrodite. He still doesn't know what that means. Okay, you have to Google that. No, I'm not Google that. Don't, don't Google that. Don't Google that. This is where you answer your line. Do you really want to know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so, but this is, but yeah, so we're doing some education here. No, this is cool. When I asked you what you're doing now, the first thing you said was public speaking. I imagine you talk on this a little bit. Yes, so my mom actually hit me the other day. Wow, that's kind of impressive. Because she was... Edit. My mom called me the other day because she saw that Sam Smith go uses the term non-binary. And my mom was like, what does non-binary mean? And I had to explain what non-binary meant. And I love that. Just for like, maybe people, maybe people out there that don't know, I know, but just for them to explain... Am I not mistaking? What non-binary is. Demi Lovato is the same now. Demi Lovato just came out non-binary. Because she just came out non-binary. So non-binary. So when you're talking about LGBTQ community, you're talking about sexual orientation, but then also gender identity. How you see yourself in the mirror. When you are non-binary, you do not see yourself as either male, traditional male, or traditional female. You are just non-binary. Like you don't... And you then use pronouns that are neither male or female. Traditional male pronouns, he, him. Traditional female pronouns, she, her. You use they, them, which are neutral. Wow. So, and the hardest thing for me was when I first came out, because I got like sexual orientation, like I got that, was just understanding gender identity and understanding transgender man, transgender woman, being bisexual, which goes back to... Are you bisexual? Are you bisexual? No, I am gay. I am gay. So no more... No, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Yes, you are. Richard. No, I'm just saying. I'm actually a little... No, it's totally cool. I'm totally fine. LGBTQ... Yeah, exactly. R.A. Yeah, so there's like... So I only... And I... People, I am not... I'm laughing because this is not my close friends. I'm not laughing about the situation is just funny that we're talking about. Something is so defensive and that's your question. No, shut up, because we have to understand how it's going to be perceived. Exactly. It's the... I just didn't know, like you have been with women, and I'm assuming that you have done... Other things? That life... No, so that's the thing is that I never... Before I came out public, I never had other things. It was always women. Okay. And then after I caught off the engagement for three or four years, I was by myself. Man! Completely, like... What? Telling people... Right arm strong. Oh my God, dude. Right arm strong. That motherfucker down. So I did not... have any kind. But I would tell people that I was dating, and it's interesting because I have an aunt who would ask how my dating life was going, but would use gender-neutral pronouns when asking, oh, how are they... She would do the... How are they doing? How are they... Oh, she knew. She knew, but she didn't want to... She never want to force somebody out of the closet because they could retreat further. And... Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all there is. So anyways, but you just... You lay the groundwork down. Okay, so there's been a big shift in a conversation very, very recently about transgenders in sports, right? So, you know, and I know it's a complicated... I actually sent you a text because I wanted you to think about it. I wanted to hear what your thoughts were about it. But what are your thoughts? Because there's laws going in place, there's the president signing orders, there's individual states. Like, what are your thoughts about transgender... And it's mainly high school because I've asked Sue Byrd, I've asked Elena Deladon, and they were... And I don't want to say what they said. We'll discuss it. I want to hear what your thoughts are. Oh, go ahead. Like, what are you saying? I want to hear your thoughts because I don't... Okay, so my thoughts are... And yes, this pertains, in particular, it's not just high school. It's down the line. Middle school, elementary school, in regards to transgender females, transgender girls, are they going to be allowed? So they are, for those at home, they are born as traditional as someone would think, traditional boy, but then convert to being a female. So transgender girls, I believe, should be able to play sports because it's youth sports. And I don't see... When it comes to collegiate level, Yeah. There are guidelines with regards to their protections with regard to checking the hormone levels and this and that. Even at the Olympic level, it's the same thing. They make sure that there's the testosterone levels and then the hormone levels. But I remember playing against... And the biggest worry is that the transgender girl is going to dominate the other girl. The other be the best player on the court. It's going to make you a better athlete, going up against a better player. It's going to make you... I remember when I played against... Do you remember the name, Shay Cotton? Yes, yes. LA legend. LA legend. Shani, you remember Shay? Yeah. Oh, yeah. A little younger than you, but I ain't that young. Shay Cotton, he's an LA legend. So you go up against the best it's going to make you better. And so my nieces, who are 12 and 10 right now, they have four games tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, Shani, yeah, yeah. The girls are getting older. If for some reason they're playing against... And it doesn't matter if it's a transgender girl or if it's just a girl who's better than... It's going to make you better. It's going to make you a better athlete. But what about the argument that they're going to take away opportunities are my daughter's not going to win a state championship. We're not going to get a college scholarship because she's competing against the boy. The... Well, she's competing against a transgender girl. You know what I'm... I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. We're just going to do that little education there right there. Education. Education. That's actually important. I said this is what other people are saying. I know, I know. But so in that moment, like, are you going to have to show me multiple examples of that happening? Yeah. I don't see that on a multiple across state levels where a transgender woman is taking scholarships away from another woman. I just... I don't see that on so many levels. Now, if we get to a place where... Then maybe we can readdress that at a later date. Where it comes in actual. Yeah, where it becomes an actual issue. Where it comes in actual legislation right now. Yes. Right now we're doing a panic and we're trying to target. And it's so bullshit because this is what people do. You point at something and say, okay, then focus on that. We got a whole lot of other issues we got to work on in this country. But we're worrying about transgender... Point zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. The percentage, the numbers are so, so low. One more zero Richard. Zero. One more zero, zero. And again, for my nieces and nephew, or sorry, for my nieces, for my two nieces, if you're going up against... And if for some reason they are a better player than you, it's going to make you better. Because what made me a better basketball player was when I was 12 years old and when I was my nieces' age. I was playing in pickup games with my dad and his friends and getting beat up. I'm sure you're the same way. I know Channing's the same way. That was what we did. We didn't do a show. We didn't do 100 hours of AAU. Big, but we were still going to the parks, going and playing with our dads, going and playing with the OGs at the park. That was just kind of the part of it. And you just learned how, okay, this is how I play against somebody who's bigger and stronger in the game. And even a lot of women's team have men or boys, like if you're in college, practice with them. So our practice guys, our practice team players were guys. But people don't know that. People, if you're not familiar with college sports or even like WNBA, they will have men practicing against them. The physicality, the strength, the quickness, all of that stuff. Cali, were those dudes freaking you up? Or were you following them? Yeah, of course they were. And we were... Well, you know, I had my moments. Mack Truck had her moments. But with that said, like, to your point, the reason why they were brought in was to make us better. So that when you actually faced your level of competition, yeah, it's going to be... Yeah, yeah. And trust me, I'm taking Brittany Grindel all day. I don't care who you put up. But then that's so funny. It's like, dude, when all this stuff, everybody has an all-time team. And I've said this about you multiple times. When you have an all-time team of like, who are the guys that you would go in a foxhole with? I don't use that term anymore. Another Richard moment. But who do I want if I had to pick... How many people are you going to piss off? A lot. But I just, like, they've got to understand, like, the stuff that he says to me is far worse. I love there's an expression, when the fight's going down or when the game's getting tough, there's an expression somebody used, like, well, this player is going to go search for the team bus. He's going to be waiting for you on the team bus. He's going to be waiting on the team bus. No, but Jesus calls that person. If I had to pick of all the players that I've ever picked, the people that I would go to battle with ever in my life, he is on that team. If I had to make a 15-man roster of people that, like, I've been in battles with, I've looked eye to eye, like, there were times where, like, Kenyan and Jake Kidd were heard and me and him are looking at each other and I'm like, well, how many pick-and-rolls are you going to set for me? He's like, hundreds. And we would just go out there and do it because we were, like, again, we came in as rookies. We were together for six years and all the playoffs. So we had so much brotherhood there from a competitor before you even got to our college and high school histories. And so, no, like, when we crack jokes about this stuff, I just want to make sure that, like Jason said, treat your friends like you've always treated your friends. Don't change them. Like, our conversation and even my conversation, how I interact with all my teammates, now that I'm in the media side, is still the same. I still give chanting shit. I still troll Brown. I still make fun of JR. I do the same things I always do. You still hoop? No. I teach. I'll do clinics, you know, for the next year and for my nieces and nephew. I'll take them to basketball practice. So if I see, I was just watching the game the other day. This is really, so if you're a youngster out there... Oh, here we go. I got to do this moment. I got to do this one moment. My man was calling for the ball, and the ball came, and he's going to leave this one hand up there and try to, like, then bring it. If you see a ball coming, two hands. Oh, here we go. Two hands, okay? This is the coach coming out. I'm not even a coach, but this is just me being like, like, I'm seeing stuff on the... And I've seen, I see a ton of other stuff in youth sports with watching my nieces and my nephew play. But that's the one thing. That's the last one thing. Use two hands to catch the ball. We'll edit that out. And no, because this is... There's one player, Todd McCullough. Big dip. Big dip. Big dip. That man, you know, God bless him. Nicest human being, but he ain't exactly what we say the most. But his NBA talent, he could catch a pass anywhere because he used two hands to catch the ball. And he has soft mitts. So if it wasn't for his, like, you know, issue that he had like his health issue, Todd McCullough was a very, very good player. And just the nicest guy. Amari had the best hands of any NBA player I've ever seen. Best mitts of, like, Steve would throw it anywhere, and he'd grab that thing, and then he would push the other player and just boom. Yeah. Yeah. So if you're calling... If you're coaching kids... Say you want to do that again? Are you gonna, are you gonna... Are you gonna coach? What are you gonna do? No, no, no. I'm just... I'm just... I'm just keep... You can't just be the gay ambassador. You're just an online reporter? I know. I'm just like the sideline. So sweet little sideline dust on it. You just can't be the gay basketball ambassador forever. Oh, yeah. What do you mean? Yes, actually, he can. No, he can't. That role is important, okay? Respectfully, like, even though we don't give each other many compliments, he has a lot to offer to the game. The dude was a high school all-American, college all-American, first-round date. Hang on. I actually was gonna ask this. Are you enchanning a all-American in college? No. Channing might have been. Channing might have been all-American. Do you have... So you have bragging rights over these two. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't like these two. I don't like these two. I use the whoops, scampers, and that's another little lie. He don't want to talk about that. So when we can talk about tennis, that's what I do now. I'll take tennis. He don't want to talk about it. You should be on the court. Yeah. Oh, look at you. Yeah. In fact, when... Tennis at your size? Oh, yeah. I love you. I love you. So... Don't laugh at his jokes. He's like my new best friend. Don't laugh at his jokes. He's funny. No. I'm funny. He just said women like gay men. Alley floor. Don't feed it to the joke. Don't feed it to the joke. Yo, so we've had... I want to say this as an LA guy, and people don't know about like how small our community in the town is. Gilbert is a reoccurring guest and topic on our podcast, and we've had him here. As an LA guy, you got to give us a Gilbert story. Because we had... Remember when we were at the... The best Gilbert story I have is a... Let's not turn this into something that shouldn't be. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just sorry. The Gilbert story that... The best Gilbert story I have... Because Gilbert, he knows how to push people's buttons. Like, even more than Richard. Like, RJ knows how to push... You obviously know this. But Gilbert is like a master at pushing people's buttons. But for me, I never let it... I always just try to be like, that's Gilbert, and let me just... Gilbert's over there. Not worry about Gilbert. I'm moving over here because I just... You didn't know. You know. I don't need that. And, you know, I've always had nice, you know, good interactions with him for the most part. You know, tough games. You know, hell of a basketball player. But he knows how to push people's buttons. And the funniest story I know is a UA story, which I know you guys know, is what happened with Eugene Edgerson and Gilbert. Hasn't been told on this podcast, so please. You guys have... You know the story? You know what he did? He chased him around the arena. Yeah, he chased... Oh, with the... With the tire. With the tire. Yeah, he's... The tire. Yeah. So, like, Gilbert... So, Gilbert, again... Our team, our team... Our Cleveland team, our Cleveland team, and how crazy we were and people have no idea. That's how our Arizona team was. We were really dysfunctional. So, like, you know that there are certain people, and we all know one right now, that you just do not push the buttons on. Like, if you push the buttons on certain people, they will cross a line. They'll put you in your place and try to... And Eugene was one of those guys. And I heard a story about him. Gilbert pissed him off, did something, and my man had some sort of metal out, like a tire line or something, like a metal rod. Yeah, you get a tire in the air. Yeah. And he was chasing him around the arena. He was chasing Gilbert around the arena. He chased Gilbert around the arena. He chased Gilbert around? Yeah. Well, now, Eugene was crazy. Like, at this one, I say this respectfully, like, and we've talked about it. It's like, our team, and Jason knows this, like, when we would compete, we were very good on the court, and we were this, and we were great competitors. But you would just hear tons of stories flowing out about the immaturity. We had a guy on our team, Eugene Adgerson. We've all matured since we were in our 20s. But he was a crazy person. You know what? I actually don't think he's crazy, because I actually had that. I wanted to do that to Gilbert, to chase him around the arena with the metal object. But I just was like, I'll probably go to jail for that, or it'll be frowned upon. No, but that's the thing. It was crazy meeting crazy. Like, I like to push buttons. I like to push buttons, because that's what I enjoy to do. I think it's funny and the humor in it. But I also can read a bit of a room. Those two individuals, Eugene Adgerson and Gilbert Arenas, they push buttons and don't read rooms. So then when one of them passes the line, then they're dealing with the repercussions of both of each other's psychosis. And Gil, just so you know, I think we've all learned in this business that we give everyone a chance to speak. You're on our list. We want you in here. Yeah, Gilbert's coming. You can sit up here and take your piece. So I just wanted to... He never caught him, though. I think he just... No, he didn't catch him. But there's times where Gilbert would walk around with like... When we'd have to go to like food right after, like at the hotel, like the training meal, Gilbert would just have a steak knife in his hand, just holding it, just waiting for like Eugene to do something. It was like... But like Eugene would fight any... Eugene would fight any... Eugene was legitimately like Art Kenyon Martin. He was Art Kenyon Martin. LSU guy, super strong and physical, not the most talented from like a college standpoint, but like was like... He'd give you all you got. He's one of those guys that you would want on your team because you know he's going to give you 110% after. And no one's really going to fight you because they got to deal with him. Yeah, because like, yeah. Let me go get my big brother. Let me go and be like, you really won't mess with me because Eugene's just waiting to check in. He's like a dog going off, just ready to get left off the leash. He's like a guy like who you know, you just like have like an afro and like a cigarette. Like, yeah, I'll guard the... I'll guard the motherfuckers. Really, really quickly, because the one person he didn't mess with, Eugene never mess with, was Michael Wright. Michael Wright, because that's what's wrong. You know Michael Wright. Again, Michael Wright, you were one of the most physical guys over the course of your career. Michael Wright was one of the most physical guys. In college basketball. Yeah, in college basketball. He was our power forward. Also gay, also found out much later. And I found out from other people because he was basically dating somebody when he got over to Europe and then all the European guys that would play over there like Gary Neal and different guys that would come over to the league and they'd be like, hey, you know your boy Michael Wright? And I was like, yeah, you know he's gay. And I was like, yeah, he walks around, got a boyfriend holding hands. I was like, no idea. And then finally later on in his career, he kind of more people knew and I had a conversation with him briefly. But like when you see a guy that you competed so closely with, like same thing, physical, aggressive. Like God rest his soul because Michael passed away. He was actually allegedly his former lovers on trial for his murder. So God rest his soul. But like how is that when you're talking to, you said you talk to closeted athletes. Like how is that? Because there is so much that goes into that. So you touched upon one thing that there's this stereotype of like, that we all grew up as kids of what a gay athlete is going to be. Like a gay athlete is going to be soft. And is going to be the boogie man basically. And that was like the stuff that I was dealing with too. Because I was like, I'm not that way. I'm physical. I'm blah, blah, blah. You're dirty. Yeah. Well, I wasn't dirty. But so there's that component to where you sort of have to break that all down and just say, I'm me. And just stereotypes be damned. And then what was the first question? I'm sorry. That one is different. That one. That one. That one. What is this one? I think this is a good time to plug this one in. Shall we? Thanks to our friends over at Camus. They always keep our engine rolling. I love that line. And we are going to send you a couple bottles. So I'm going to get your information after this and we'll send you. Because of course Camus, yes. But I do want to, because I know we are on a time crunch. I have one last question when we're done. Then that's it. I just want to make sure we've touched everything. Is there anything that you want to push out? What can we plug? What can we plug for you? Because this air is over and over again. What's the hell is it? Yeah, Channing. We got your, we got your wine. Good job. Now we got it. Now we got it. Now we got it. There he goes. I didn't get it. I got it. I got it. That's awesome. I got it. I got it. We're going to have to fight to keep all of these in. We're going to have to fight to our goal. Yeah. AJ is going to walk in here so fast. Yeah. That went way over my head. This is the day, Jason. I got it. No, I missed it. I don't even know. He said we're going to plug. So what do you want to plug? Oh, jeez, guys. How old are we? I'm 12. 12? Thank you, Channing. Thank you. I know. I know. You guys still think having homosexuals in a locker room? I will just let you all know that I observe for a living and I've watched everyone. Sonia, Justin, Helena, making sure they're laughing. You guys still think having homosexuals in a locker room be a problem? No. So that's also what happened when I was with the Nets. We were able to just laugh and joke. We were able to be a great team. And there was none of that homophobia like in the F-word and all the stuff that you almost have in the locker room before. But when I came out, my teammates respected me and we were still able to laugh and joke and have good times. So I hope those other athletes who are closeted that they realize that when they step forward that the league will support them, that hopefully their franchise will have, you know, will support them and that their teammates, their brothers, will support them. And also respectfully that there's going to be people that don't. Right? And those people you wouldn't want in your life anyway. And then there's going to be people like me who are just going to give you shit regardless. Joke with you regardless. There was only one person. And they were going, people, nobody. I'll go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry, I was just going to say there was only, sorry, if you took a flight over here, we could get another one. Thank you, thank you. But there was only one person who said something inappropriate to me on the court. There was only one person. And I was expecting it maybe even to be from a fan. It wasn't. The fans were great. We had a road trip to Charlotte, New Orleans, and Dallas. Oh, the South South. Going through the South, going through the Bible Belt. I thought, okay, I got to mentally prepare myself. Like if the fan says this or does this, I have to control myself because I don't want to, you know, being the first. I don't want to have this like. Here goes the first gay man into the crowd. Trying to beat somebody. And I was like, I'm going to control everything. And sure enough, hey, when we went through Dallas, there was a kid holding up like, welcome to Dallas. Jason was like big rainbow and everything. It was awesome. It drove me nuts that he became so popular. Look, it annoyed me. My jersey was a number one bestseller. That's the nonsense. Say it louder. My jersey was the number one bestseller. So that shows the power. It was all the lesbianism. It shows the power of the LGBTQ community and our allies. It does. The purchasing power, the market is there for those athletes that are closeted. The support and the purchasing power will be there. You will keep your endorsements. I'm still a Nike athlete. He's looking around. I'm looking around for my Nike. I was like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Where are my Nike stuff? But so to those athletes who are like, and do I do this? Should I not do this? And that worry that the articles are just going to be written and written and written. Like when I got back in the league with the Nets, it was about four days that they wrote the articles and then they're like, okay, wait, how's the team doing? Oh, they're winning. And then a week later. Which is stress. That's the stress because if the team goes 0 and 5, they're looking at you. Well, but if your teammates surround, if you come together, it'll make the team stronger. I truly believe it'll make the team stronger. Yeah. No, I agree. Like the one, like again, this is on a separate topic. We talked about our Arizona Stamford stuff. Do you have something else? Nope, we're going to end on that. So Arizona Stamford, Pac-12, we talked about this. I just had a question. Couple months ago, they talked about kind of eliminating a ton of sports from Stamford. Are you familiar with that? I am. Did you see what just happened? Yes, I did. I saw what just happened. They reinstated it. But they reinstated all of them. But I want to, like, as Stamford is, and I know you are a proud alumni-ist, alumni-ist. Oh, dear God, Arizona, here we go. Alumni, alumni, alumni. There's an education. Alumni-ist, alumni-ie, alumni-ie, alumni-ie. You can just say alum. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I don't know. No, please. Geez. Get it together. Are you saying Pam? No, but my point is this is that Stamford is one of the richest schools in the world. They have a $29 billion endowment, and they were going to cut down, like, oh, I think it was 11 sports because of an $8 million budget, right? And these are, like, sports that, like, push to the Olympics or Olympic athletes. But, like, so- There was a male wrestler who won NCAA. National championship. Yeah. And he wore, like, a blank jersey. Because he didn't want to represent Stamford. Yeah, yeah. But speaking as a person that went to the school, and I assume you graduated. I did. I did. So, but, like- Did you? No, no. Why do you think I'm still working? Wait, I'm still working. What's the conversation amongst, like, because it's like, wait, why did Stamford athletes have to go out and raise money to participate in sports, right, like, when the school has that much money? I think there's some politics involved. In that internal Stamford politics that, I'll just say this. I am glad to see that all of the sports are going to be remaining. None of the sports and those athletes are going to lose their scholarships. They will be able to play their sport. The internal workings of that, of the decision as to why those 11 sports and to why there was a budget that there wasn't a budget for them, that has been debated, but I'm not in the room. So, I don't know the true story as to why that happened. I just know, okay, what's the outcome? The outcome is the 11 sports are remaining. Those players get to play. Those athletes, student athletes get to continue. And- I like it. I like it. So, I- You don't want to say anything negative about Stamford out here. No, no, but- It's $29 billion, and they're trying to say- I don't know. Everybody went through some tough stuff. All these kids that they're trying to take off scholarship, parents lost jobs, lost money, lost the stuff, and you got $29 billion, and you want them to represent you. I don't know the inner- I will say this. Just about every former Stamford basketball player, we're on a WhatsApp group chain. Yeah. Now, you want to see some funny shit. Yeah, we got one too in Arizona. We got two in the U.S. We got one too. We got one too. So, we debated that. We talked about that, about like, okay, what is really going on? Like, why didn't they come to the athletes for- Like, we- So, we had that discussion amongst ourselves, but we still didn't have the answers. One thing that I would like to say, which is really cool about that text chain, when the unrest happened over the summer, we were talking obviously about what was happening in our country, the unrest, and we're like, okay, what can we do? Like, the problem seems so big. And one of our guys said, okay, think of something that you can do in your own world that can help this situation, help. And one guy, Eric Revenow, who's an assistant coach for Georgia Tech, said, I'm going to see- Oh, Josh Passner. Where is he? Josh Passner. Oh, yeah, Josh Passner. Yes, Josh Passner. Yeah, head coach. He said, I'm going to see- Have you heard that kid? Stamford kids are working for Arizona, guys. We know, we're not letting you gloss over that. You're not letting them gloss over that. You want to talk about my education? You hear that? Stamford kids are working for Arizona, guys. Just this, you know, no big deal. All right, except you're warned. Okay, so- Keep going, I'll talk about that. We'll edit it out so it looks more serious. So, but Eric Revenow said, okay, wouldn't it be great if the NCAA made Election Day a national holiday for student-athletes? Or at least got it so that there were no collegiate activities. Everything was going to be excused on Election Day. Guess what ended up happening? No way. Yeah. Congratulations. He was able to, and through network of people, it spread of, okay, because that's like a no- It seems like a no- Memorandum. Encourage 18 and 19-year-olds to get out and- Register to vote, to vote, to exercise. This is the day off, yeah. And that's what ended up happening. And having it on college campuses, voting opportunities, and it's like, yeah, I think that's genius. It's one of those things that makes such sense that you're like, why wasn't this done earlier? But a lot of that- This is coming, we don't have- So I got to give my flowers to my Stamford brother, Eric Revenow, and, you know, and he kicked the idea out there. That's awesome. And we were able to all pull together. Look at you, man. It's all about flowers and painted toenails with you. And with that said, Jason, we appreciate you more than you know. I just met you today for the first time, and I will say from the moment I met you out there to the last hour and a half spent, Channing said it best at the very beginning of all of this with your brother and just the wholesome love. Like you have that. You have that deep to your core. And we appreciate the conversation, the education. And again, for those that watched this whole episode, to understand the history, the backstory, the shared respect, brotherhood between all of these guys obviously is very genuine. So, cheers. Thank you. Yeah, six years, dude. Finally got them on. Cheers. Hey, Road Trippin Fam. We are excited to let you know that Road Trippin is proud to be presented by Fandle. Never played NBA Daily Fantasy on Fandle before? Well, check this out. Right now, Fandle is offering up to a $500 bonus instantly when you make your first deposit with a 20% deposit match. Why should you play on Fandle NBA? Well, for one, it is easy to use when it comes to their app. What's not to love about that? But also, for example, they offer different and unique contests across sports in relation to your skill level. Oh yeah, and get this. You can play for big prizes, single-game contests for the biggest national matches, and inner contests for as low as five cents. That's right. Five cents. Simply incredible. So again, let's recap. Right now, Fandle is offering up to a $500 bonus instantly when you make your first deposit with a 20% deposit match. Enter urlfandle.com backslash Road Trippin to play now and get your deposit bonus. That's urlfandle.com backslash Road Trippin so they know we sent you. Fandle, more ways to win.