 Yeah, yeah, you just found out now. Well, I knew she you know apparently this afternoon. She wasn't feeling too. Well and Everything's so hush-hush. She might have been dead for three days. So all right. Welcome to the metal voice today on the show You got it. It's not Sidney Zander. It's It's Mark Zander Maybe we should change that here. Let me see if I could change that. We got nothing against Sidney. Hey, no, no I could change that rename. Okay. Don't worry. It'll be a temporary We'll get mark up and running. There we go. Look at that. We got him there. Everybody live on the metal voice. We are changing names Okay, I'm good. I'm good. I'm good Yeah, we'll rename it. We'll rename it. What are we gonna do here? We'll leave you uncapitalized You got a nickname we want to use Thunder child, Sydney Get it up. Thank you. I appreciate it Okay, all right, better late than never we've got mark on we've been trying to do this interview for quite some time now And we're ecstatic that we've got mark zander on the metal voice here today to talk about this great new album A through zed or is it a to zed or a zed or A through z It's apple to zebra. It's apple to zebra Absolutely call it any way you want All right, first things first the album came out. What was a few about a week ago mark Well, august 12th came out on august 12. Oh time flies mark time flies We'll pretend like today was released because today's the the day that really counts anyways, right? You're on the show Today is the day Absolutely All right. So how did this come together mark? How did you And ray get together finally after so many years of being a part both being part of a Fates warning, especially in the heyday of fates warning not to say there's no heyday today But still it was the sort of the classic era. We'll call it Um, yeah, it sounds like we you know, it's like a love affair went wrong or something now that we're back together but no actually While putting this band together ray was the last piece, you know, I tried to Do the same kind of concept back in 2007 with my band slaver with greg and iya and wane finley and filipino basically You know ritchie blackmore is not calling Merlion's not calling if I want to do something I'm gonna have to do it myself. Okay So, you know, I've come to that realization a long time ago So I you know, I record drum grooves and drum beats all the time And I was just looking for a guy that I could start writing with and then we kind of build it from there I called uh matt guillery and I talked to him and he said he was very busy Which obviously today we know his code for you're not paying enough money, which it's cool and I get it and every I'm good It's cool. You know, I'm just you got to just talk to people So he told me to call vivian so I did and we talked and he explained how basically his dad is my age And he was in high school listening to all the records that we did and everything like that Just started sending musical ideas back and forth and it just rolled from there And it was actually very easy because as much as philip bino is always with me jupe is always with vivian when Because he's they've been together for like 20 years They've worked together for 20 years and it's like the go-to guy just like philip if i'm playing philip's playing So all of a sudden we have a band real quick and it was great and more importantly that even when I heard What viv did right off the bat like on the Excuse me what jupe did right off the bat guitar wise. I was just completely floored It was like the perfect guy overly melodic Can shred hat if you have to but just tasty really reminded me kind of a neil shawn kind of thing But with a little bit more I don't want to say anger but back like maybe neil and the first three journey records maybe or Anyways, and there we were you know, right music and we're sending it back and forth, you know, musically it's flying There's no problems in recording things at certain tempos building parts. Hey, what do you think if it goes to a halftime feel here and Hey, I hear it more like a power ballad whatever, you know, we're just putting music together Sent this out to about maybe 20 singers, you know, big ones small ones ones. You've heard of ones. You haven't heard of phil a heart turned me on to a bunch of guys You know when cancers replace their singer for me to talk to Um Just no one really got it, you know from the beginning. This was always about big hooks big songs Yes, with the players that are involved It's going to be something serious playing. There's going to be great chops and all that. I'm not worried about that, but Vocals right from the beginning big hooks, you know, if you don't know the song by the second chorus comes around Then we didn't quite get our job done. Yes We're going to play our asses off and we're going to get our riffs and licks and everything But it was all about just being to the masses I wanted to appeal to a wider audience Which lends obviously to playing bigger places bigger record budgets bigger hopefully video budgets just Spending so much time in the underground I wanted to really take it out there and this is the kind of music that I love anyways, you know Commercial hard rock with guys that can really really play Got to a point where I just said, ah, well Just give her a call Worst thing you can do is hang up on you and that's kind of where you are right now. So what's the difference? He said, you know, you know, whatever he had going was his business. It's none of my business You know, yes, I was in stage warning for 15 years during the classic era, whatever you want to call it I gave 110 percent, but I'm not in the band anymore. So I just called them as our friends and hey, you know, I'm trying to do this Would you be interested? It's all groove. It's all hooked. It's all choruses He said, oh, let me let me see send him something First thing you sent back was rise again. And I just knew right then, you know, there's magic You just know as a musician wonders magic and you know when you've got a struggle You know, it's interesting throughout the course of this whole record. I never said to ray one. Well, the whole idea was Here's the music you do what you do. I'm not telling you nothing I'm not gonna tell you where the choruses where I think the choruses are you figure it out on your own And and he completely blew our minds in that respect where he was singing choruses where I thought there should be verses He was singing over parts that I thought were going to be musical parts But that's the beauty of the band. You have five guys let them do whatever they want to do And it just it just comes together, you know, and everybody was smart enough knowing what the common goal was And and it just worked and I knew there was magic. So that part of it was easy So any female singers that you reach out to and all those uh, no, here's another here's another this was done Very business-like I sat down and went, okay What are all the things in your past that are like The hurdles that you have to figure out as you go Okay, well, I don't want to hear I don't hear I don't hear a single I don't want to hear. Well, let me listen to it about five times and I'll let you know what I think I wanted to come right out of the block at the same time. I knew I could be wrong But I knew I could find the greatest 27 year old singer the world has ever seen And there's not one label that would give a damn. They don't care. They don't care um Honestly, Robbie Wycoff who I brought in To sing backgrounds on a lot of stuff or again with Robbie. Hey, do whatever you want man Here's the song. This is what Ray's doing. You do what you want to do trying to create that 70s and 80s vocal texture I mean the guys out with Roger Waters. Okay, please. I mean the guy's saying background for steely dan diana rossoline beyond unbelievable No one cares Yeah, he doesn't have that it's turned into such a thing now that that's what it's all about It's not like back like hey, I got this new band. Oh cool. Let me check it out It's like well who's in it and how many have they sold? So I knew it that wasn't my intention to go with Ray But it worked out as a benefit to that So that's kind of where how it all came together like that Yeah, um, he sounds like Steve Perry sometimes I think that is his favorite singer number one. Yeah, and number two I'm not going to say the music was designed like journey, but at the same time there's a certain Uh, when you take a beat a beat Upbeat well that that was another thing that we were going for right from the beginning enough with the doom and gloom Enough with the end of the world enough of that, you know, we're all living that we don't need that You know, and it's been told to me several times and interviews that this is a very uplifting record You listen to it. You're fired up. It's not like oh man I better go cash out my 401k right now because it's coming It's it's very up Like ray says he goes four four. Give me more, you know, he said it was On one hand, he said it was a little bit more difficult because we didn't give him a roadmap But like okay, dude, here's your verse here's your course, which I intentionally didn't want to do But on the other hand, he said hey, you know, once I got that really cool hook I knew that it was just going to be a variation three times during the song So yeah, I mean, that's a great compliment. You know, if I was a singer, I'd take that one all day long, you know But yeah, I know Steve Steve Perry is a is an influence and a big uh a favorite of rays And uh, I think really this you know, ray sounds fantastic I think it's a little different than what people are used to him singing And I thought he was able to kind of really stretch out there a little bit Uh and not uh feel so, you know restricted down That that that's what I noticed, you know, ray just sounds great and and uh his voice really stands out I mean, obviously you're drumming as well. There's a lot going on behind the scenes There's a lot of beats and rhythms that are going that aren't At first listen is not not obvious. Then you go back and listen. Oh, what's going on in the background there? So a band you're pedigree I mean, you know, again, like you said, it's all about what how's it selling? You mean, you've got great reviews Is this greasing the rails for the second album? Well, in our in our our opinion, and you see it is absolutely. I mean, we're writing right now There's a lot of things I've learned over the years and in one of them is, you know If you can't control something and you've tried as hard as you can to do whatever you have to do You kind of got to let certain things go and just do what you're able to do Um Do I wish it was 1984 and we are on columbia and opening up for bon Jovi or something like that? That'd be great. That'd be awesome. That would be perfect Everything's changed, you know to be at this point, you know, I'm not sure if people realize it because this is the day in the age Of you know, my dog could come in here and I could cut a record form within the next 25 minutes You never know you never know it could pop Um, so So people don't uh realize going from like basically nothing to the process to getting the deal to dealing with usine to Getting it to that point to get it all that way It seems like anybody in the mother can do it, but it's so difficult And especially if you want to keep it at a certain level We all know the budgets aren't what they used to be and I just didn't want to come out with another Oh, cool project. Hey, whatever cool. Hey mark's not bored anymore. Whatever it was. Okay. This is for real I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is And we're going for this Okay, because I figure at this point in the game if you're not gonna go for it Why bother, you know, I make too much money recording other people's stuff. Why why bother, you know, that's a great point So that's what we did. Let's get serious now. Let's talk about this album cover. Okay. Yeah, there's a zebra A lot of zebra I saw was um Was that movie there? What was it? You got to move this move this? What was that? What was it called? I'm losing my voice here. Let me take you back the way this all came about true story um Talked about 12 different guys album cover guys guys, you know guys. You don't know If I see another viking serpent and someone getting their head cut off and No man's going across the desert. I think I'm gonna puke. Okay enough. Stop. Stop. It's not that I got the zebras We're moving on to zebras Well, the funny story is the name came about because we tried and tried and as you guys know The name is the hardest part in a band ever come up with Can you imagine we're sitting in the basement smoking a joint and dude I call the band rush Door there people like that there's their bands like that, you know what I know, but what I'm saying I got an email saying we're we're a band called triumph like a what? Exactly exactly so and ray just said it one day, you know I don't know if he meant it from his name to my name or just it's all inclusive of the styles But anyways Again, I'm striking out with the artist. I'm thinking. Okay. What the hell haven't talked to you in a long time Worst thing you can do is hang up on me call them up, you know, we we're friends We know each other and so on and so forth start talking up his projects my kids Whatever he goes. Hey, what are you doing musically and I tell him he said, what's the name of band? I tell him he was okay, man. Let's let's just keep in touch Seriously 20 minutes later. He fires over the album cover without the logo And then it just kind of went from there I'm a firm believer that you find the best people that you have That you can find and let them do what they do I wanted an album cover that was a splash. I did not want Same old same old and the thing that I have noticed whenever this album cover shows up with six seven eight other album covers Whether it's a chart or spot whatever it jumps You know and when filibino said to me in the beginning I was man Hey, I'd buy that shirt regardless if there was a band or no band just for the image You know And people said it right out of the bat love it hate it. It's iconic. You can't miss it You know and you told me the story when he did signals with the dog and the fire hydrant You know ray daniel supposedly stormed into his office and thought he was nuts What is this? You know and the guys in the band didn't get it And it went on to be the most successful cover he ever did You know, so that lumbus sense of humor especially with this I mean signals is a good example too, but this one here. It's a perfect You know, it takes you a second you look at it and you're like, okay. What's uh, I don't oh, okay I got it. It's it's that instantaneous. You know I did not want something that was just mediocre. I didn't want something That was just yuck. You know and and Good bad or indifferent. I think you know if it's standing out, you know again You know when I saw it, I thought merchandise and then second I thought live You know with the screens and the backdrops and the rest of the artwork that he did Throughout the whole thing wanted to go for that old school Thing not hey go to our website check out our photos. It was like I want the kids or you know or adults whatever Sitting down with the album or the disc and going oh trial by fire. Oh cool. Cool I'm reading the lyrics and I see the artwork that goes with it. That's what we were aiming for It was kind of like, you know go or don't go. Let's not like screw around here, you know Yeah, and I think it's brilliant. Uh, you know people some people don't get it Some guys in the band in the beginning didn't get it And then as it turns out when they start seeing it pop They get it, you know, um I would rather have an album cover that has a little controversy to it And it's not controversy because it's like negative or like it sticks out. That's what you're saying Just it's not racially motivated or you know, there's no no one can get but the band zebra is probably saying damn it They took our idea Why didn't we do that? Hey tell them to call you, you know, I'm sure you've got a bunch of other zebras hanging out over there But there's an apple, but there's an apple You know I don't know. I thought it was absolutely brilliant judge. That's nice. It's a cool cover. I like it Yeah, I appreciate you guys saying that and it's it's interesting. It seems like I'm gonna say younger people don't get it, but they don't get it from those years of You know, the album covers back in the day the ones that like jumped at you and that you kind of went, whoa Yeah, you know iconic ones. It's like I said You know enough with the Viking in the serpent and everything being dark and the end of the world and cauldrons blowing up smoke and You know, I'm not sure this sounds like it's your baby. You're leading the charge here mark Absolutely. I mean, that's why it says on the record that it was produced by me now Again, someone has to drive the bus You know, you're talking it You're not talking about guys who live in the same neighborhood where we can always get together and have hatchlings out You're talking about five different countries. Well four different countries because philips and arizona But it was my idea from the beginning, you know, the other guys didn't say hey mark Let's do like a commercial rock album. It was my idea. I was ready to put my money where my mouth was You know and I did And certain things like when I came down to the album cover I'm sorry, but someone has to kind of like leave the charge and You know, I like I said, you know, put your money where your mouth is and You know, I made the decisions. It's something, you know, wanted to be in control of certain things And you know, I have a certain work ethic kind of expect everybody to be on that same page um Well, this here's a question and me and alan always talk to each other about We interview bands all the time And they always start off saying we're a band. We're a band. We're a band and then no, we're not a project But then, you know, it just sort of disappears in the wind And again, we're not holding you to anything Of course, you're gonna do what is successful and keep going with momentum But what do you what do you foresee is this really a band? Is this You know, we're gonna go hit the tour trail is are you is this a band or do you think it could be? And then if it's not it's not No, no, no, no Here's the thing that you have to take into account and I don't know the other bit put it this way You stick six guys together from six real famous bands. That's a project Okay, because they're going back to their bigger bands. Okay, I get it. Sure. Sure. And I and there's labels out there that That's all they do They just turn them and burn them No, this is a band now Bands change members Yes, you know, do people not want to be involved? Yes Do Uh, you know, this guy go there and this guy that way With this band if I'm leading if I'm leading it It kind of starts and stops with me and the respect of If everybody says hey mark stick it in your ear cool cool I'll go get other guys, you know um but That's the whole thing we're talking about someone needs to drive the bus, you know If I wasn't pushing it and wasn't my baby and I wasn't contacting you sign I wasn't getting in touch with the guy to make sure everybody got their publishing got it set up, right? You know, if I'm not dealing with the videos the merch store blah, blah It's endless of what that is Then we'd have three songs in those singer and those three songs wouldn't be finished so like it or not And everybody's go, oh, you know, it's a hundred or so pompous and whatever. No, if you want to get shit done You gotta lay down the law Well It's like I'm leading if you want to follow cool If you don't I'm not holding to I never said hey man. Okay guys everybody pulling me up a couple grand We got to do some stuff never, you know, everybody got paid. It's cool. You know, they got paid. It's cool You know, but I love the band thing. I wanted to be the band thing I want everybody to contributed that sometimes it just comes down to the other people You know, I can't control anybody, you know, let's say We're working on a few things Giles calls tomorrow to hey man, you know At the end of october They want you in greece for a couple gigs and you know, we'll film it We'll do this and that and the other and I call some of the guys and they're like Well, man, you know, unless I'm making like four thousand a night or or hey, I'm busy. Whatever the case may be That's cool There's more than one guitar player keyboard player bass player You know, it's like it is a band in that respect. I didn't get into this to do one and done But which are going to go on tour that that's what you're planning Yeah, we're we're pushing and pushing and it's it's that classic thing of like, well, let us get through the bands from 2021 That got blown out and let us get through the festival season But the big thing to us was hey, the record came out It's got positive response, you know, except for the orthodontia that the zebra needs and so, you know Let's see where the offer start coming from and how it's going to work You know, I think people are available. I don't think Uh, that's the problem. I think it's just a matter of It's such a a tight problem And then, you know, you talk to Giles and all you hear about is all the airline problems the logistics the travel of this that the other You know, and the last thing you want to do is go out for the first time with a band and have a disaster Yeah, so but no absolutely, you know, we're in the middle of writing songs, you know, I You know, I could play a little no, um, we have stuff You know, we have stuff we're working on a lot of ideas You know, I think between november and The beginning of july I had like 106 different ideas that I recorded Like to say some great drum patterns on this album I just want to add that, you know, Alan talked about it a bit some great What kind of and just actually I just getting off another tangent What would the set list look like on tour? Would it be A little bit of this a little bit of that we're gonna throw in some maybe fates warning songs Well, what do you think? Well, what do I think? Well, here's this cover tunes. I don't know Um, buck stops with you mark. You're signing off for all this Well, I sequenced the record. So basically that was sequenced like a live show Oh, okay. Now you can't really open with trial by fire. I think that could be You know, you kind of giving away, you know giving away your your the most successful song to this point It's pretty you're low too early. Yeah, I can't I can't I hate to say that You know, it has the most views. That's what we're talking about right here It's all the most units. It's got the most airplay Anyways, but yeah, that brings up an interesting dilemma because you're talking about 55 minutes for the music Now it's obviously been discussed warlord fates warning. Does ray feel comfortable playing it? I don't know. It's a bridge that needs to be gapped. Um, I don't really Want to rely on that? I'd like to think this stands by itself No, it'd be a little weird playing songs that no one ever heard even though I remember seeing boston on the very first tour way back when And they played stuff from the second album that you didn't see for what 30 years later something like that I mean, you know, they weren't playing cover tunes, you know, but but I don't know I don't know, you know, do we do extended jams? You know, do you lengthen your songs a little bit more? I'm not sure Um, here's what I suggest. Here's what I suggest. Okay I suggest you do your whole album like you planned And maybe you start off with a You know fates warning song and you end off with a warlords warlord song as an encore I think it would be great. Um, I have no problem with that a lot of that's gonna sit, you know With how comfortable ray feels with it. So i'm gonna have to leave it in his get him on the horn We'll work this out be you and allen and ray The last thing I want to do with any of these guys is make them feel You know awkward. That's our job. That's me and allen's job. Well, I've been in enough situations. We're on the awkward guy And uh, you know, I I don't dig it true story I don't know if anybody a little trivia for you my very very very very first gig with fates warning Was in iguanas in uh tijuana over the border there really cool place like a little mini arena Probably only holds 700 but really cool And we actually played lucifer's hammer from warlord. Oh, there you go. Why not? Why not? Right, that was that was uh one and done. I don't think jim wanted to do that one after Are you gonna be doing? Oh, uh, are you gonna be doing um a warlord tribute? No, absolutely not No, absolutely feel comfortable. No, um, here's the thing And and yeah, you can say whatever you want about march zander and warlord Warlord was bill period and the conversation I caught a great ride. I gave 150 percent. I handled all the business That whole thing Was him, you know picture this 17 year old kid in san jose california very right wing sitting at a bus stop in the rain Kind of long hair sunglasses got the earring the the striped shirt the capesios the really tight jeans Writing lucifer's hammer seriously It's him. I there's there's I I'm not into that. I understand what people go out and honor You know, if someone else wanted to do it like they did with that record, you know, they did a trivia record out of grace God bless. I signed off on it. I ain't playing on it. I'm not that no no It's and and to go out and you know Get a guy that can play bill stuff or whatever. I'm sure someone you know There's a million guitar players that are really good that can cop stuff and you know, that's not a problem Certain things, you know, just like i'm a firm believer in certain songs. You don't redo There's just certain things you don't You know, he he was you know, if there was a band And we've been together 30 years and all the four other guys were still together kind of thing That would be a different discussion But that but people just really got to know and realize that that is him man that that dude had I mean He had concepts. He had It was all him and and it's it's doing a total disservice to try to mimic it, you know Like we were talking earlier We want to call them projects or not But a lot of bands that kind of formed this way that we want to take on a tour by scheduling and getting everybody else It's going to be hard to tour with everybody schedule So so ray would be available that what just is a fates warning continuing to be on hiatus There's nothing happening and he'd be able to contribute full time to this project Like i've always said, you know, I left 15 16 years ago. I have no idea of what the politics the business anything It's none of my business, you know my dealings with ray is like dude, you know, I've talked to him before I said, hey You know things come up and goes. Yeah, you know, let me know, you know, it's business You know, it's really business It's like do I expect a ray ray to go out in a van and make 12 bucks a night and play really horrible gigs? No, I ain't doing that either. But that's the point. It has to make sense and I get it, but It's really up to him. But yeah, he told me that, you know So I don't know, you know, again when you start dealing with all these different people That, you know, we didn't grow up together. We don't hang out together So it's it's really tough to get a gauge on it. But we all know When business opportunities happen, you know, people seem to Gravitate towards that. So, you know, what's the demographic you're hearing from from a lot of these reviews and the feedback you're getting from the album? Unbelievable. I mean, I don't want to sound like that guy that oh everything, you know, oh, no, the world loves us. No, I've heard You guys will get a kick out of this guy goes on and he just drools over the record just goes on and on and everything's great Great, great, great. Give it an 8.5. Okay There's a guy that goes in and he starts talking about how I'm pompous and how I'm talking about playing to the masses and how we want to play bigger places and And just totally just chops at me and it's fine. Whatever he talks about this and that and whatever then gives it a nine so I'm going The response and the interviews that I've done and I've done a whole bunch of them The main point that I take away is they get it. They understand this isn't fates warning mock too They understand this is what it is and it's made to be A commercial hard rock Everybody feel good But also appeals to musicians. So guys can sit back and I go I can play that You know that kind of thing. So they're more involved and it's like wow, you know, that's mark. That's right Like damn, where does jupy come from? You know, it's like, oh man buying a whole oh my god, you know That kind of thing. So it's crossing the people are getting it I was always kind of concerned and that's why very early on I stuck it out there This is not this this and this this is what this is Take it or leave it because I didn't want to hear all the reviews saying well Well, you know, it's not very proggy and it's not fates warning barts. It's not supposed to be So that's the main thing I get but I don't hear anything I hear more about the cover than I do negative response about the music You know, pita pita. Why is that zebra on the cover eating an apple? Hey, he got busy torturing them He got paid well, you know, all right some comments here Well, I just want to go Jim you don't mind it just before you get to that I just want my takeaway mark. Okay A handful of bands can do prog well fates warning being one of them. Okay But this format now you're competing with a lot more Bands that was similar sound kind of I won't say middle of the world But you use a word melodic earlier So what are you going to do to to kind of stand out from the crowd because now you're dealing with a whole other Crowd if you want it if we can use that term. I mean the zebra didn't do it I always think we need to go with sex, you know what I mean? No, um zebra and bikinis Hey, don't be surprised. This is a zebra sweeping the stage at the end. But no the um Just you know as we move forward into the new music a little bit more wild A little bit more reckless a little bit more now that we've kind of you know, we have a foothold You know and people know who it is kind of kind of turn it up a little bit with the energy and excitement kind of thing um Not not far off from where we're going But you know now that we've been established per se with a record You know just continuing on with that, but I think what really is going to separate this band It's just the consistency of the song like I always said this is 11 singles You know it got to the point where when we were getting down to the end I sat down and I listened to all the songs Okay, we got enough ballads. Okay, cool. Okay. We've got enough up tempo songs. Okay. Uh, we got okay What are we missing and it was like, okay, it's kind of like that slow kind of Grinder kind of sound we don't have that so I sat down at 92 beats per minute Played a couple grooves sent it off the vib and jubb. We started working and all of a sudden that's where borrowed time came from So we're looking at it Like 11 singles, you know, we're not looking. Hey, we got trial by fire. We got stranded. Let's put an 11 minute opus on here You know, we're not looking to that. It's songs. It's always songs. I always looked That you have 11 songs make them all possible singles make them all possible that someone's gonna love that song You know, uh, here's my only complaint. You want to hear my only complaint? Sure. You want to hear it? Yeah The silence broken is a bonus track. I'm like, why is it a bonus track? It's not a bonus track. Okay Here we go the silence and that that shouldn't yeah, that's my complaint. Why is it a bonus track? It's only a bonus track. Okay. Here's the problem. It should have been the first track too I thought it was like a real strong opener. Oh, no, it's I see it as a closer and it's funny You mentioned Steve Perry. I picked your journey and in a big arena and Steve Perry's doing the vocal thing Walking back and forth to the stage and you know what I'm talking about Here's the thing. It's not technically a bonus track. What happened was the length of it could not fit on the vinyl And the label did not want to do a double thing where you got like two songs on one side of a record Three on the other. No, it's it and the whole japan bonus thing is out the window. That's not even happening anymore So it wasn't a bonus what happened. Like I said, it couldn't fit on the vinyl It's on the disc and there's a digital download on the vinyl We didn't what we didn't want to do Is not put it on a bonus and people are going well, wait a minute the record. Why does the record not have only have 10 songs? You know and that would have occupied, you know, four hours of interview time, you know, so It's been clarified now. It's been clarified. We're all good. Complaint retracted Complaint retracted Good. Now we're 10 for 10. No, but no, it's no. I love that song. I thought that song Was the feel-good hit of the summer myself. That's what I'm saying. That's why that's what I thought a bonus track Definitely an 80s feel to it. Definitely an 80s feel It's that and it's that like you're talking about the drum patterns and the electronics and just I see the The whole point whenever on this record, I would I mean, I think I've done this my whole career Anyways, it's about the groove. It's about the pocket, you know, it's about so people can tap their feet Even if it is in six and a half, let's say but And this record has so much pocket in it and so much groove It's like that song right there You got all this crap flying around and the same thing in trial by fire during the verse cowbell this that the other Kick and snare one two three and four. It's there. You can't miss it. It's there, you know So no, I definitely see that one. Yeah, that's yeah, that's you know All right, as we continue this interview as we continue this interview We're gonna go five to one your favorite all-time drummers. It could be alive. It could be dead Me now and spoke about this. Jimmy, they gotta be alive. I go. No, Alan. How can we leave out some of the greats if they're alive? There are some great ones that died Yeah, so let's go with your number five. Can you count them down? Oh, yeah It's funny. I had it going down number one down. Let me back it up We'll go to five we go to five. It's more exciting this way. It's more exciting this way leading up to one You got to put cozy paul in there. Okay. All right, you know, you just you just have to huge huge rainbow fan um Kind of just dug his his attitude Um, is he the greatest drummer of all time technically? Maybe yes. Maybe no probably no Um, great drummer. Love the traditional grip. Love the attitude um Yeah, gotta put cozy paul there um Ready to move on. Sure. Alan, let's go to four. Go to four. This one you'll never hear on your show ever again Okay, sammy davis jr You play drums. Oh, yeah That's the thing I'll never forget and I've said it before best performer. I've ever seen in my life with sammy davis jr No questions asked my parents took us to the circle star theater when I was like 16 or something I think candy man came out You know it goes black the light comes up from behind him. He has the bowler You know he undoes the tie and he does mr. Bojangles and it's just you know amazing tap dancer amazing drummer that a lot of people don't know just just just like You know you can do it all just can do it all just just great Great great great great guy just I knew stevie wonder played the drums. I did not know sammy davis jr Played the drums. Oh, no, absolutely Number three. No wait pause. Kenny says I love the new album az rules Uh Mark zander is a beast that's raining on your parade rob johnson says trial by fire is amazing. So there you go to your point mark Uh a lot of good feedback and you're not you know, you're not It's real feedback. That's what you're getting a good vibe right on the internet. No apple Metal madness the album is really Good would love to see this live. So that's a that's a big thing. Alan. Do you have another question before I go to number three No, no, I'm anxious to hear the other ones. So after sammy davis jr. I don't know what to expect any number three. That's my drum roll Number three. This one's not going to surprise anybody but steve smith Okay, uh, just because here you go, you know going back to what you know a through z Here's a guy ridiculous chops But playing in a commercial format and making it Kind of stepping out a little bit, you know from just being boom tap boom tap And just really just a monster player also the thing I really admire about steve smith As much as he's lost me a couple times The guy is like over the last 10 years or whatever it's been is just taking the drums out To a point where like you kind of lost everybody, dude. You you're so into it and you've Just like laughed everybody so many times with your the the technology not technology the um the advanced, you know the thinking And how he thinks and plays um I just really have to take my hat off to a guy who's into it and dedicated It's got to be a love obviously but into it that much To keep pushing it and keep pushing it and keep pushing it and you know, that's like a trailblazer compared to this guy Who's just going to sit back and you know, hey, i'm going to cash it out and be good and that's cool, too There's nothing wrong with that. God bless those guys, you know, if you can make money in this business I take my hat off to you. Do I admire you as a drummer? That's a different story, but you know Now steve smith without a doubt, you know playing traditional grip just tearing it up You know the floppy hair and the mustache and all that stuff back into journey days and just playing behind those songs You just completely You know opened up a lot of stuff for me, you know really did All right, here's a curveball for you. We're gonna pause it right there at number two The most overrated Drummer that you you know what why does this guy get so much? I mean you don't even have to answer this question But maybe it's something that's you know on your mind as a drummer You're saying why does this guy get so much praise when really he's okay. He's not the best Well, I've said this all along from day one If you're popular a lot of times people confuse Being a great musician and a great technician and a great drummer Compared to being you know a good drummer in a band that's very very very successful um You know lars is a good example The guy worked his ass off They stuck to it. He did his thing. Hey, we all can't be vini caliuta. You know what I mean and who wants 25 vini caliuta One's good enough. I mean it's like but a guy's like lars I understand I get it guys in really popular bands You know get certain attention and that comes with it and I think that's great. I have nothing a problem with that But usually when you're talking about a guy and you go, why is he getting so much attention? You know, he's not that it usually comes down. I I think I think lars is the reverse of what you're saying I think a lot of people shit on lars But I think he deserves a lot more credit than than they than they that everybody puts him down I find but I think wow you're listening to this first four albums. You're going. Oh my god This guy he's got the drive. Maybe he's not the greatest drummer, but he's got the drive to your point Yeah, but I think a lot of people put him down because he's successful and we all know how that one works Yes, that's so funny because he took so much shit for the nabster thing and was was that guy like just Just seeing the future or what you know, I mean and and people like to pick on certain people at certain times And let's face it, you know Metallica is a band. It's not a guitar player. It's not a singer It's a band and god bless them and god bless lars for driving that bus and just pushing and pushing and Getting on that bus to go to rehearsal or whatever and going across to I mean god bless those guys I mean, but I think you know going back to it. I mean, yeah He's a target and there's a lot of other guys too, you know The funny part is when people like dog out charlie watz, you know what I mean? I was like, okay, whatever again, you know, but he's but charlie watz is not in rush That's that's the difference, right? It's like Yeah, but then again, you know if you have to say here's another question. Here's a curve ball We all love rush. No questions asked But if neil was in a different band That we didn't all hear about, you know, that wasn't so damn popular and so Big and loved by everybody You know, there's a million dudes out there that are are intense, you know, but I've always said playing well is good But you got to get it into that band format You got to get into the public guide, you know, these guys that shoot these videos of playing 19 over four While drinking a cup of coffee and itching their ear at the same time. That's all cool But number one, it's not music and number two until you get it into a band format You're just going to be sitting in a basement coming up with all this stuff and that's cool That's what you want to do. There's no problem with that at all But you know again, you know some guys, you know, right place right time and You know, usually a very popular band You know that that's gonna get that thing where people are certain people will Blur that line and think because he's in a popular band They sell a million records that he's really he has to be good. They're selling a million records He has to be a good drummer. They're selling a million records. So I think that here's a good another curve ball here I just want to And again, if you don't want to answer don't worry about it Tommy Aldridge like here they bring Ozzy wanted this drummer He wanted he wanted me gets lee gets rid of lee chris like which was a great drummer He brings in tommy. He does bark at the moon tommy and then from what i'm hearing from karmine apiece Is that he had to go in and sort of tweak what he did because it wasn't Studio perfection, right? According to karmine, right? Now then you notice later on tommy's no longer in the mix So I mean, is he more of a live drummer or is he more he's not a studio drummer He's more I don't know. What's your opinion on tommy aldridge? Oh, love tommy aldridge He would he would be sitting at number six probably. Um, see I go back to pat travers, you know Eat in the street What was it go for what you know or what the live album? Yeah, I mean, I don't know put it this way You know god bless karmine and whatever he's telling you that that's great But you listen to that live album and you listen to tommy aldridge And that pat travers what was it go for what you know or With that, uh, yeah, something like that. Yeah, something like that. Oh my god, uh, cowling and and pat trawl Unbelievable and you ain't faking a live album unless someone came in and overdubbed everything for No, which is the case You never know you never know No, tommy aldridge, you know, he A certain I'm not here to shit on him either. I'm just saying what do you think? No, I mean, but you don't play in all those bands if you're shitty, you know Exactly you just don't and there's stories every single day of guys getting replaced on the track You know, you know, it's so funny the guy who say, yeah, I just went in and did joe blow's new bass track Well, that guy just got his bass track replaced by another joe blow You know, so when you get into a recording studio and a producer has a certain vision and so on and so forth You know, I'm surprised he just didn't do it 99 of all these other bands He says chop the crap out of pro tools and align everything the way that's supposed to do You know, I don't know. I love tommy aldridge. Um, I love You know, especially In the later years it got really straight up and very similar But if you just go back to pat travers, you know, I see that linear kind of sideways kind of floating and grooving kind of thing That that, you know, or you can go back to, you know, uh, jim dandy go back to black oak You know, but no, um, you know, god bless him. What is he 73? I mean, you know, he's still playing with whites Yeah, exactly. So I you know, well, again, would would cover dale have him if he is horrible Oh, no, no, no, you know, so I mean those are bands that they could have anybody they wanted And uh, no, I think he's great. Plus, you know, I love the fact that you always see it Then he's got a smile on his face. Well, yeah, he's happy to be playing that, you know, yeah Yeah, we're ready for number two Dave garibaldi our power Who is it sir? Dave garibaldi tower of power tower. Oh tower. We're going back tower of power, right? Well, they're still alive and they're still playing Yeah, when I was a kid or even when I was growing up, I didn't study. Oh, here we go again I didn't study karmine's book. I didn't study Drum beats for the professional rock drummer. I didn't do stick control You know, I had my lessons when I was seven out of a buddy rich book Oh, I think oh, we might have a tie for first. Anyways, um I didn't do what everybody wanted. I didn't do like I didn't learn all the same fills that everybody learned So when I heard tower of power, I just went damn And that's a bay area band and I was raised in san josek um along with the dubby brothers and pablo cruz, but uh the The playing and the ability to make it groove and not be so rock bashy Um, you know, I studied with a guy that was like one of his friends or disciples Learned a lot of stuff went through his book stole all kinds of stuff. It just really opened my playing up You know, it got me out of the Standard rock and roll kick and snare kind of thing and really got into different areas You know, I spent a lot of time over the years studying afro-cuban and different things just to get away and bring other ideas in I'm still going to be a rock drummer. You know, I'm not going to be playing on the tonight show or anything like that But to bring those elements and make me Different make me special make me stand out and be noticed. I always wanted to be noticeable Oh, that's mark, you know, I can hear his sound You know, if not, I would have just turned around and just took any gig that I could have taken and made money and And done whatever but I was always striving for that But dave garibaldi just completely blew my mind with the stickings and just just Really opened it up and you can hear it, you know all over my playing, you know A lot of people might not recognize it as that but You know, when you sit down with a guy's book and you study it for six months and just rip them off blind You're gonna you're gonna see it at some point. That's where that whole double cowbell came in You know, the whole thing that the cowbell on the left and the cowbell on the right that you hear and that whole thing of orchestrating with the left hand Whether it's the electronics or around the toms to create those kind of melodies He was doing that with the kick snare and the hi-hat kind of thing And I got a lot of that kind of stuff from him All right. All right. Is everybody ready for number one and before You give us your number one I want to know what everybody else's number one. This is watching Alan, what's your who's your favorite drummer, Alan? Like, you know favoring me talking about, you know, the best or anything like mark said, but there's a You know, there's lots of drummers, you know mark being one of them. Tommy Aldridge Vinny apasy There's lots of drummers out there But there's one that holds a special place in my heart and because he services the song and for me That's what a drummer's supposed to do, you know, keep the time but also It's fine that you do all kinds of fills but if the song doesn't call for that You're kind of wanking off a little bit, you know And one that I find particularly does it well. This is one of my favorite bands of all time as well It's brian downey of thin Lizzie. He was always in the pocket. Absolutely Any drummer I talk to says Like this guy is is quality But you know, it's interesting I don't put him in a in a boom tap simple kind of way. He was always slick He was always always in the groove always in the pocket and all that kind of stuff But what he had that a lot of other drummers didn't have is he had a jazzy bounce feel like don't believe a word He he he made that work and that's not easy to do Believe me. That's the Every drummer just can't sit down and do that. He had a certain something. Oh, no brian downey. That's a great one That's absolutely Absolutely All right, I'm going to read some uh, steve barker says, uh, tom tommy aldridge He also says vinnie paul for sure uh Paladin says davil and bardo, which laid davil and bardo is just an incredible drummer if you listen to this First few slayer albums paul says mickey d another great I mean when we went to see the scorpions. Oh my lord He just took the scorpion songs to another level. It was like Geez this guy was just he brought sort of like Not to say that, you know, the drumming was terrible in the past, but he just brought it He sort of elevated the songs. He just brought this new, uh Vital energy energy was the word i would use compared to herman rarabelle serviced the songs and god bless them But I think what you're saying is there's like a a shot of adrenaline. There's uh, there's uh, that's the right Yes, it just seemed that way, you know, it's not like he was going motorhead speed or anything But compared to the past scorpions Tours I saw I just seemed like there's a an energy there that was maybe lacking in the past No, I know what you're saying Hey man, I mean he's like he's older than us me and alan and i'm going how does he do it? I don't think I could do that for too long I try to turn on the lights, which sometimes in my arm gets tired, you know My arm gets sort of hanging the clothes out on the clothes Mark how old are you 64 I mean, that's a workout. Isn't it being a drummer? That's that's a workout Yeah, it is but the truth be told is, you know, I've been working out in cycling for years and years and years and years and You know, you kind of got to you know be in shape for you know, I never drank never smoked um Was always into the physical fitness not not to the like ridiculous stupid thing and like not eating ice cream for 12 years and You know not like I like that but to the point where you know, I've never knock on wood um Had a problem playing and you know, I was taught at a young age Everything correct posture and correct this and correct that never had a problem But I just always thought that the physical is just just as important as the mental part And you know, especially, you know, uh as you get older, you know Things are going to fail that you don't have any choice over so try to protect yourself That's possible. The drummer is very physical. Okay. Frazier saying, uh, nico mcbrain another great drummer, right? You know, you got to go. Do you listen to the first? I'm not sure first second whatever. Um making magic pat travers Uh, maybe it's nico's on it. Niko's on it. Oh, nico's on it. Oh, yeah rock and roll susie I'll never forget, you know being a kid looking at it And that was one of the very first albums that they listened to this drum kit He was playing like a heyman drum kit or something, you know back in the day, you had no information You don't even know what guys look like. Yeah. Yeah, no in and nothing nothing and here's his album You know make a magic we used to cover rock and roll susie and um I guess we tried to cover, um life in london, but anyway, uh, I mean but no nico back then Smoking man smoking really good another one oscar saying ken marie Who uh played plays with flotsam and jetsam now and he played with uh, where did he play before I forgot? Sorry, I thought it was alice cooper at one point. Oh, wow I'll throw out a name. I'd like to mark's opinion because it's somebody that's impressed me the more I listen to the more you press me Is chad smith from the chili pepper Oh, it's not a good. That's not a good. That's a pause there, Alan You know, I used to I had the chili peppers in my studio for years. Okay. I saw up close and personal And this isn't a cop out but for what they do and everything. He's great. He's great I mean, you know, he he is part again. I think that to me is a ban You know, that's like a band of guys meshing together. Um I was listening with stuff you did with chicken foot the stuff he did with some of the glenn hughes albums That's that impressed me more than his chili pepper. There's a lot of pauses in mark's voice, alan I don't know if he's that impressed, you know Not not hate not love whatever not not high on my list. Um, and I'll be honest. I'm just not a uh A big fan of the band. It's just not my Yeah, you know, you know, I know a lot of people will crucify me for that but you can't you know, I I like what I like and I don't like what I don't like and You know Okay, here's my neil pert from rush And I will pronounce it pert because that's how the we've said it We're young neil pert from rush as a good canadian boy You know the professor, you know, he's he's to me the ultimate drummer, you know, he's busy He's a perfectionist you see him in concert. He's completely focused. There ain't no fooling around with neil Then he whips around the acoustic drums and brings out the you know electronic drums Then he whips back the acoustic ones He's pure perfection and he knew when to stop when he goes, you know what my body can't do this anymore I'm leaving on a high note and that's what he did. Yeah That's mark. Yeah, um The thing about neil to me isn't so much the technical prowess per se It is more and I remember coming home from high school and all the worlds a stage and Cutting class or whatever and sitting on there and listening the best field ain't anthem What I got out of neil pert in my career was the fact that he was which is actually probably more important than the technical There's a lot of dudes that are technical and we can talk technique all day long Is the fact that he made it cool for the guitar players singers and bass players to go Hey, the drummer can come out the drummer doesn't need to go boom You know because a lot of guys before neil were doing that and the guitar player would be doing knock it off Stop stop. You know like what the hell are you doing? You'll save that for the solo album, you know, I mean He made it cool. Well, he made it okay and cool To bring it out, you know And then even further than that when he started bringing in the glockenspiel and this that and the other You know, he made it cool to for drummers to start in integrating stuff like that Even though I did get a few few looks and fates warning when I started trying to slip that old cowbell in there They're kind of looking like that. I'm like, hey, man, you know, you fool. No one deep purple, right? You know, come on, man, you know put that thing in there, but uh, I thought his contribution was more of Taking the drummer from the back and putting them, you know in line with everybody else or even out front It was he could read and write and he could read and write which getty lee was very impressed. Look this guy can read this guy could read Boy, it must have been one pickings up there in the old uh in the uh cold there, boy You know, if that's your qualification, hey, you're in the band because you can read Well, because he could write the lyrics he reads books Absolutely Go back to our mark was saying, you know, it was probably that keith moon influence on him that that Gated to get him to get out or out in front like that and now that's another great drummer You know, he's just all over the map and keith moon. What what a style. No, absolutely Absolutely. All right. So all right, are we wait a second. Are we ready for mark's number one? Here we go. There you go mark Well, there's well, wait a second. Hold on before we say something dream theater Do you prefer pornoi or manjini? Like I mean there's always this huge debate right now, you know amongst the dream theater people um Who fits better with the band? I mean there's some great music for both eras Do you want the politically correct? Answer or do you want to mark zander straight up and then everybody can bash me later mark zander straight up straight up Never been a dream theater fan period um Again, it kind of surprises a lot of people I don't sit around and listen to uk all day. You know, I don't put zap on Sure. Yes, I played in fates warning. Okay. Yes, certain things were called upon and needed to be You listen to warlord and you wouldn't go. Oh, just do it's like totally into fucking fraud. You know what I mean? You listened to other bands that I played you wouldn't say it I'm just not a prog guy from that point of view. I just You like the way I got point of view in there. Um, but I've just never been a big fan. Um It's just never resident. That's okay. There's nothing wrong with that No, I mean hey plenty of people Aren't mark zander fans and that's fine But and I'm not going to sit here and bash this and say that sucks. This sucks mama It's just never strict straight up music put the needle on the on the platter sit there and listen to it Number one. I'm not a big fan. Yes. I know I played in fates warning I'm not a big fan of music that I can't just kind of groove to when it starts moving all over the place And I'm not a big fan. Just me. I'm an old man. My heart can only take so much. So I gotta keep it kind of straight But I just never been a big prog guy, you know, I put on a bad company record in a minute. Yeah, you know, just Maybe it's my age and where I came from, you know, it's funny story Back in the day into totally into emerson lincoln paulman totally into it. Uh, because this is like what the cool kids were doing I didn't understand a damn thing. Carl paulman was playing Half the time now, I don't even understand what he's playing, but I'm like a 9 10 12 year old kid Oh, wow brain salad surgery cool. Whatever, you know, lucky man was cool, obviously Still you turn me on with great beginnings great great When they started getting fucking crazy and he's banging the bell with his teeth It's a 9 12 year old kid. I have no idea of what he's doing, but it was cool. It was cool. Yeah There's showmanship tune drumming right and that's that's kind of like the eddie van halen kind of thing that he brought The big gong in the back With the fire. Yeah, but you know, I'm I'm just into like guys that just tear it up Just tear it up and we're good. You know, I don't need Strict stick twirling twirling. I don't need, you know, I've seen a couple of these guys on the internet that That's their gig and it's like, you know, they should just be on the stage by themselves and they're jumping around and I'll Whatever anybody wants to do. Tommy Lee. Tommy Lee now He's kind of like oh when I was a young kid and people really dug molly cruelly go Well, Tommy Lee's the greatest drummer ever and I'm thinking to myself Is he really or is it just all the twirling and sort of the showmanship of it all? What do you what's your opinion on Tommy Lee? It's a popular band and god bless him Like I said, if you can make money in this business, yeah, and you're doing it legally Man, you're right up there in my book. I cannot say a negative word I might not like your band and that's my prerogative, you know But hey the fact that you did this and made money You know, god bless. I I'm I'm envious. I'll be out of there. I'm envious. How'd you guys do it? You know funny story I did an interview the other day and the guy asked me, you know, and I'm not going to do his little accent That he had but it was kind of funny said to me he goes, you know with the today You know, what do you think you could learn from a band like red event sleep? And I said, well, you know, are we talking music or are we talking business? I go, let me let me spell it out really simple for you I would love to know Who's behind that? I would love to know what they did. I would love I would pay To find out how they handled the business. How did they get these guys? And we're not even talk about good that or different. How do you get a band like that? That's a rock band supposedly allegedly And how do you get a band like that? Out there, you know and expose. How do you do that? I'm bewildered again goes back to the same thing with motley crew if you're doing that kind of stuff I'm in awe. I'm just like going man. I I don't know how to do that If I knew how to do it, I would have done it. I still haven't figured out how to do that. How do you I'll tell you I'll tell you I'll tell you I'll tell you okay either you've got deep deep deep deep deep pockets okay, or You just connect there's just this connection, you know Some people just connect just with this masses right off the bat But how how do they get in front of the masses now, you know, well, I mean the grenadine for they could tell you They were just on an indie label with their father sort of like managing them in a sense and it just It connected like the right video on the right day on the right time and it all just went Kind of like a beaver, you know, he had a video on youtube It just connected it just the right video at the right time You know, those are these are the small percentage of the population that ever, you know Because when we started this I talked to the guys and said hey, how about we do this Why don't we write this killer music and we do this stuff and we're gonna have it fronted by a bunch of really good looking 25-year-old dudes Or better yet, it might not work. It might not work. It might not connect You might not connect but unless he pulls his pants down. He is a big schlong like Tommy Lee Bring grand bonnet out of retirement. I mean whatever, you know, but you know Or you do it with girls, you know what I mean? I mean What I'm basically saying though is that you know this day and age who knows like how you connect That's right. But how many other Greta van fleets are there in the garage that didn't connect that should have connected That's the real question. Well, no exactly. And that's why I'm saying My question is how does that how do you get that to go and I know I'll tell you I'll tell you This is my restaurant theory You could have 10 restaurants that are equal in good quality food and service on a street Yet one of them just seems to connect with everybody the right place the right time The right people and the other ones just go bankrupt over time. It's just life has that small percentage of people in every industry That do well and they don't really do much. They're just like everybody else, but they just Well, let me paint this scenario to you because it's come up several times where they use my quote when I say beer commercial car commercials in Cobra Kai Okay, make sure Cobra Kai Johnny wakes up in the morning half drunk goes over to a half Drink Coors can crushes it starts to drink it dribbles all down his shirt. He gets up puts the sunglasses on stumbles out to his car Turns the car on is he's about to shift down into gear trial by fire pops to his stereo Yeah Bingo Yeah, that could be a two that could be a two. No, that's what I'm saying It's like how do you but how again, you know people, you know I thought I was nuts and he was wearing a zebra shirt too. Do you remember that? Right. I mean what and he just wore it just like that. How about if he just exactly but haven't been an apple dangling from the mirror I mean whatever. I mean What what I'm saying is though, it's kind of that right place right time Yeah, yeah, yeah, and this is like the worst time ever for that as compared to what it was When I was flying but that's where that quote comes from, you know Hey, if you can launch your you know, just ask Ronnie James view with man on a silver mountain in the course commercial You know, it's like yeah, you know, it's kind of one of those things where if you can get to that kind of Outlet because it's not like you're gonna get there and the people are gonna go Wow man 12 minute songs and they're an odd time and I just don't get it This was made for that thing. It was made on that note mark and I know I've been sort of going off on tangents That's what we're about here mark. That's what we're about We don't follow any script Okay, number one mark. Give us your your favorite all-time drummer In that let me give you the honor and mention first go ahead Really, it has to be buddy rich and the only reason I say that is just because that is the true godfather of The drums. Yes, there were players before and everything But the one thing I loved about buddy as much as with jazz guy He had that rock and roll attitude to stick it up your ass And his attitude his attitude playing the drums and just talking and just talking just he had that attitude It wasn't like hey, how's everybody doing? Hey great, man? I'm really glad No, he was just the salt of the earth and monster player obviously But just you know, just love that attitude and the way he carried himself as a drummer He didn't have to be the guy in the back So he was actually the guy who brought it forward before Neil did but he did it And he loved it too and the way you hold the held the sticks there It's just the whole thing. So this one's gonna probably throw you for a loop unless you've read a lot of stuff up on me Ainsley Dunbar Oh, wow Ainsley Dunbar Ainsley Dunbar now for a lot of people who don't know He's been around forever played with zappa. So obviously he can play if you're playing with zappa, you can play Uh, john mayhold blues or whatever they were called. I know this is going before a lot of people's time but where ainsley hit me was I was 12 13 years old in san jose in the bay area journey was from the bay area So those first three journey albums before steve perry and it was metal fusion and You know, they would sing and then have an eight minute song And we used to go see them at the old wall door that I looked it up. It says it held 600 I swear it only held 250 it really small plays. I was literally 20 feet away from the stage like like right there Ainsley Dunbar was the first guy that I saw that inverted a china that had it upside down that everybody does I'm not saying he invented it the first time I saw it live Played traditional grip and tore it up. He didn't play like a jazz player And his drums had the stars and the moons on it. Okay, so that's all cool The the guys just tearing it up But what I really learned from him was the four-way independence of losing using your left foot and the importance of Timekeeping with your left foot and how to incorporate that and how you play you have four limbs use them Okay A lot of those guys that you talked about today all these guys that are at this top of every list They're not using that left foot that left foot sitting there on that second double bass pedal ready to launch I I ripped off and I would sit there with the turntable. Yes, it was a turntable And pick it up and then I started playing the drums and would shake the turntable and be like, oh, damn don't play so loud and get back and The linear style in a rock metal Fusion and I don't mean fusion Guitar up around your neck playing kind of cute stuff. I mean like if you got I'm sure you guys have heard those You know of a lifetime kahotec and just those first three journey albums. It's just It's mind-boggling. I mean Neil Sean is not what everybody thinks Neil Sean is Yeah, you know, I mean it's like and and we used to sit there 20 feet away and just kind of go like this seriously, just you just It was coming at all angles. I mean it was just intense But I I learned so much from him As far as the playing and the utilizing of all four limbs and honestly, you know If I passed him by and and didn't I'm not sure if I would have fallen into that And I could be a lot of like a lot of these other guys that every once in a while Just because it moves them they feel like hey, let's step on that thing But that is to me I've always kind of look at it like this. Okay snare drum you can hit it hard You can hit it soft. Okay, you can hit the rim. You can put the stick across for him bass drum You can hit it hard hit it soft cymbal hard stuff, whatever the hi-hat You can play with your foot you can play with the stick you can open it You can close it you can create so many different things and I totally fell in love with that years ago And I'm sure you hear that all over my playing Um with the cymbals and the hi hats and the different things. I thought it's it's such a perfect Accompaniment to a heavy driving sound to bring it light to bring it back heavy And I know a lot of guys, you know, they're like, what are those cymbals there for? I don't know. I didn't order those You know, what are they there for and to me? That's the most intricate part because when I'm playing I'm keeping time with that left foot and it just locks everything else in together It's like having your own metronome whether it's on the downbeat whether it's on the offbeat I mean, whatever, you know, but angely dumb bar man without a doubt without a doubt my number one guy, you know, wow You're the octopus the octopus Yeah, and the dude that was intense man. I think I think he's like six two, you know, and I'm only five eight But it was like six two and man you go see him play and it's just like man It's like it was it was coming at you, you know and not in a Thrashy way the dude plays jazz like nobody's business I mean and they would go into these floating patterns and he was playing that Jazz kind of ride symbol, but with the totally syncopated I don't want to say bottom Leonard Hayes kind of Kick drum pattern, but oh, it was just yeah, it was I'll never forget that and you're talking like what 50 45 years ago Yeah, he's quite quite the player He just slipped in Leonard Hayes there, didn't you? Oh, absolutely. Like that. I love that Talk about a good left foot. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely beautiful dreamer that what cracks me up and I could be wrong But every live recording that I've heard of Y&T or we used to go on yesterday and today Um with other drummers, they never copped that part. They never copped that beautiful dreamer that that Bonham esk, you know, Bernard Purdy, whoever you want to call it that thing that Leonard Hayes uses now We used to see them all the time too, you know, he showed me his hockey jersey Four-piece kit big kind of bonomi and just just he tore that shit up You know and another drummer that me and Alan love is from anville rob reiner You know, it's just he's another, you know, he's he's I see him playing that buddy rich all the way he holds his stick You know, he's he's he plays a little jazz there. He's doing some swing. He's he's just all over the place No, a lot of those guys, you know, they were trained a certain way and and learned a certain way And that's how it was, you know, yeah, and some guys bring it into their style. Some guys don't you know All right, and on that note everybody Go pick up the new album a to z is it is it a to z or a z or a dot z It's kind of a through z. It's kind of anything you want. Good press Yeah, a through z was technically the original and you know, again, hardest thing to do is come up with the name of a band Yeah, sure. The next time you need a name for a band, just you know, call me and Alan up Got a lot of good ones You ever hear the journey story you ever hear the Greg Raleigh story? No Well, when journey, you know, they they didn't have an a and so they went out and they were like I said Kale LOS in the Bay Area, they put it out to the Back then, you know radio call in and there's all the interaction with the people and that Greg Raleigh goes Yeah, someone thought we should call the band Rumpel Forskin She's like, okay, we're not gonna leave that to the public. You know what I mean? The name is the top. We'll never get to the masses. Yes. Yeah, exactly that one wouldn't have flown too well All right So the album's out pick it up on all the sort of streaming services and Amazons and anywhere you could pick up an album It's great. It's fun to listen to it's upbeat No, you won't if you love zonder and if you love array and the rest of the gang You will definitely like this album. Thank you so much mark for being on the show My see we waited a bit, but it was probably the best interview you had so The best for last that's what they always say. Well, I was gonna ask you guys, you know, is it the best one that you ever had or not? Of course every interview is the best one we ever had keep telling everybody that Again, man, you know, I again it's so funny because Punctuality punctuality punctuality, you know, I I always look at this as a sales pitch because this is what this is This is a sales pitch nothing more nothing less and when we got, you know, got all our wires crossed and that's being polite um, you know I felt really bad and I was actually very disappointed and frustrated. It's like like I said originally and don't I'm not trying to blow smoke or anything, but For six months, dude, when are you giles? When are you gonna get me on the show? Come on, man. Come on I'm tired of watching this on on the air and I'm On the dancing, you know the guy I see your face. Get me and when giles calls we always pick up And then promptly hang up You've the reach the boy the boy smell of the metal boys. Please leave a message No, again, my apologies, but no, I really appreciate your time And uh, appreciate all the help and and the support anything you guys need let me know And obviously anything happen. I'll let you know. I'll let you know how the tour stuff's going Yeah, tell us how the tour is coming along. Hopefully you'll come by in our neighborhood Absolutely All right, it's a real pleasure Be listening to you for years. Love your drumming and I'm glad to have you on the show here today for sure Thank you, man. I really appreciate your guys time and support