 Hi, I am here with Bernard Golden, CEO of Naoka. And Bernard was our keynote speaker at today's Open Group Conference here in San Francisco and gave a wonderful presentation. So Bernard, to start off our interview, can you maybe sum up the presentation that you gave in about 30 seconds for us? Sure. My main theme was that cloud computing, particularly public cloud computing from the big providers, is becoming an incredible force, an incredible framework for computing. That means every enterprise IT organization has to figure out how to respond to that. And one of the challenges is that each of them, each of these big providers, is building out their portfolio of services, really rich capabilities around transcoding video or sending messaging or doing analytics or whatever it might be. So for IT organizations, they're challenged with, do I commit to a provider and take advantage of those higher level services to build applications? Or do I stick with more portable capabilities that have the effect of cutting you off from so much of that functionality and then puts more of the responsibility for that kind of functionality on yourself as the IT organization to install, manage, configure, update and so forth and so on. That in my mind is gonna be the major challenge for IT organizations over the next five years. Okay, now in your presentation you had a wonderful quote that I really enjoyed. You said that removing one bottleneck exposes the next bottleneck. And then you talked a little bit about the virtuous cycle between business drivers, cloud, agile and DevOps. How do you see IT for IT fitting into that picture? Well, I mean, I think IT for IT can help a ton with surrounding the functionality of cloud computing with a process that sort of ties together a value chain around it. And I think that is the most important thing going for IT. What I said was in the past IT was help run the business. There was some external activity, product, whatever it might be that the business did. And then when it wanted to keep track of it or set an invoice out, it said, oh, I need some IT capability. Now IT is part of that. And so you've gotta figure out how do I build value into the value chain? And how do I make sure that IT is a component of that, is integrated into that, is infused into it? And that's how I see the tie together between value chain and the business process and the IT part. So we started off our conversation talking about the study that saw the adoption of public cloud hitting 40% by 2020. Let's finish up with your perspective on where does it end? How far is this cloud journey gonna go? Well, that's what I said, which was the interesting question left unaddressed, unpresented, was what happens in 2021? More 2022 and so on and so forth. Does it plateau at 41%, which is what was the survey respondents said in 2020, or does it continue to grow? In my view, it will continue to grow. Most IT organizations have a huge cost structure embedded in their legacy systems, their on-premise data centers, and so forth. And there's somewhat limited value there, but it's also very difficult to extract value because they're very rigid systems, they're hard to integrate, et cetera, et cetera. I believe a big challenge for CIOs and senior IT leadership is gonna be how do we extract cost out of that stuff? And then either put them into a very low cost, maybe outsourced SaaS kind of a model, or figure out what it actually does deliver value and we have to modernize that and build it and move it into the cloud. And that's gonna be a big action on it because otherwise you're stuck in a world that says, we've got a bunch of unchanging stuff, 85% or 90% of our budget is spoken for, it's of limited value, and we've gotta try and revolutionize the rest of our business on 10% of our IT budget. So you've gotta figure out how do I unlock that money and reduce the cost structure there? I believe that in an awful lot of it's gonna be, I'm gonna find a SaaS provider that does something similar and for those things that are custom to my business that are differentiating, I'm gonna pull that out, I'm gonna rewrite it so it's modern, offers more functionality, more sensibility, and I'm gonna place that, I'm gonna deploy that in an environment that is the best suited for it, which is probably gonna be a cloud environment. Well, Bernard, thank you so much for your time, thank you for your thought leadership, appreciate the time today. Thank you for inviting me, thank you.