 it'll be fine it'll be all be fine hello everybody if it's wednesday it's warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of warhammer weekly i'm back i'm not dead i'm recovering we're good and we're ready uh to talk about ogres the irony of having surgery on my my gut and then and like having a very sensitive little tummy right now while we're about to discuss ogres is not lost on me but joining me as always my co-host tom what's up buddy how you doing hello friends how are you doing this is exciting it is exciting this is a good show i am very very actually excited about this also because of our guest the bigness himself the man the myth the legend the frost lord the tyrant the over tyrant of frost lords the frost lord tyrant frankly what's up hey well how you doing buddy yo solid love it as always uh yes we are going to be discussing the uh ogre book tonight but of course we'll uh be going and discussing everything else that we normally do first speaking of which the news uh what's going on man what do we got uh a rumor engine yeah it's 40k thing next we got too much tonight to waste time with this nonsense it's a 48 pistol i don't care i don't care yeah that's fair that checks out um so uh let's talk about that city of sigmar stuff yep yeah there's new new little cities of sigmar here are some more individual pieces of this army exciting so hey woe what did you think i'm sorry of what of the cities of sigmar like here's our next step on our design journey thing did you look at the the shields and boots and other associated things it's one of those it's one of those jokes got it no however uh i poke fun at it but let's still be fair i like regular updates that's just nice it's nice to see hey we're working on this we'd like to tell you about it clearly kind of a long ways away but here's a nice picture i appreciate that do you know what my favorite thing about that update was fence i'm ready i can't wait to know your favorite thing it feels like we had confirmation that there's horses in the army well were you assuming there wasn't going to be horses in the army why wouldn't there be horses you know i don't know because there really haven't been horses in any other a os army horses in i know luminous blah blah blah i don't care i was gonna say look if you like a zebra duct tape to a rhino with a main like a lion and a chicken tail just a bunch of stuff duct tape together like you're building a character for pathfinder you know coming up with that backstory to explain all six of your halves and parents you're gonna like the mountain a os but for the based horse enjoyers pickings are slim it is i feel for you and i hope you get what you want i hope so too i just as i looked at this what struck me was that like the bottom pictures that they showed were like the back quarter like quarters of the horse barding sure now those could just be like shoulder blades that have little tassels on them like she'll like shoulder pauldrons with little tassels um but that seemed more slanish so it's probably for horses could be half horse half robot when you've only seen half of the horse you've not seen everything in age of sigmar i mean you are you are not wrong you are not wrong so i was excited about the cities of sigmar announcements or the update so it's like i've got another update for this that's fine i i don't understand why i don't care about your opinion it's fine i'm gonna share it anyways uh who cares what why do people like horses what who gives a flying crap the coolest things in warhammer fantasy were all the non-horses that we loved those were all weird animals slammed together too like pegasus knights and britony were super cool because you know it's better than just a horse slap some wings on that bad boy you got a better model put a horn on it so it's a unicorn you got a better model okay combine it with a lion you got a better model like instant we all know this is true because it was the stuff we all liked when you're playing d&d you're not excited about buying a horse that's a thing you can just start with in the equipment but when you find greater steed and call a perieton or a griffin and you ride that thing into the skies you're like i am billy badass behold me okay i don't a merchant taking his stuff to market uses a horse or an ox who cares who cares it's not interesting okay are you ready are you ready for the reality checkments sure you're right it's not interesting when every every uh every great farmer has an entire stable of peritons right because that's that's where you're in we're not playing great farmers tom horses exist in the world they're out there no they don't they don't they are rare they are the rare thing just like in those other examples the reasons why those things were special is because not everybody had them they were accomplishments they were unique they were special here everybody has the weird because you're playing heroes dog you're playing the heroes that's like playing a d&d party and being like no fighter you get to stick with the normal horse so that we can all feel better about our other mounts our weird mounts your argument is stupid next news item speaking of normal horses anybody want some doomflower warlocks in a box hey there we go beautiful what a transition there they are that question apparently is no because they're still putting them in boxes for the 50 year in a row or whatever uh indeed uh just give me a second you're okay yeah so we we have uh we have a battleforged boxes that have arrived and uh that was a transition i appreciate that hey well um daughters a caner amongst them with doomfire that tax still is alive and kicking um along with them we had uh squigs and well here i i've got all the pictures of the images okay i got them all baby we're going to go through all so there are eight is seven sorry seven not as i say eight because i can't count seven a os battleforce boxes this year is that too many yes but nonetheless here we go so let's hit these in let's hit these in order we're going to all give them a quick rating the cane slaughter coven the afore mentioned doomfire warlocks that hey whoa so pretty beautifully segued us into this box containing 10 which elder sisters sisters of slaughter five doomfires the coven throne which is obviously a bunch of different potential models uh as which is nice because then not pictured is the bonus medusa on foot you get if you build it like this uh and then five of the uh snake ladies which could be built either way and five canary which could be built either way okay let's us we don't know the price of these things tom what do you think what do you think these are round 220 dollars 210 dollars i think they're 210 uh you know what now i'll say 220 because we were 210 last year and we've had almost an across the board 10 price hike here in america sure 10 so i i'm going to say at least 220 possibly 230 i hope not but possibly okay let's just assume they're like 220 and use that as our benchmark because you can't because like if this was five dollars it would obviously be the most amazing thing in history if it's a thousand dollars it's the worst thing in history right so we gotta plant a flag somewhere so we'll say 220 and then you assume you can get your normal your normal local discounts at whatever store you purchase through okay okay so let's say 220 what's your rating on this box tom if you're if you're wanting to get into a dock army how's this box um it's fine that's not like a b it's like a c it's like a c there's two dead two dead units in there i don't know i don't like the canary like they're just not as hot anymore um i mean they still are there a free automatic battle tactic but okay i know well assuming you're like your event is using battle like battle tactics i understand which they shouldn't be hey well what's your what's your uh what's your take here what how you like this one well i don't know what the individual pieces cost and you set a number and i went to american public school so my arithmetic is a little shaky sure but if if i'm getting in the dirt as a cane and those horsies are free like that's the discount like the box costs x minus horses if you were to just buy it individually sure and you want to use all the models in there it's a great box if you don't want to use all the models in there not the greatest box but it's got stuff in an army that you like okay i know bold takes the start collecting super super bold look i'm going to give this a solid b minus because not pictured you also get a hag queen on foot if you build it like this or a slaughter queen on foot if you build it the other way and you get a medusa on foot which you're going to include in most armies yeah that gives you a whole bunch of extra stuff true yeah like two bonus heroes which is cool right um the doomfires drag it down if it was if the doomfires were like a second unit of snake ladies i'd be i'd be i'd be a on this one all the way okay boom cruel boys swamp lurkers you get 10 stock standard swamp bogglers okay you get a derrick i'm gonna see if i can if can i do this without using any real names okay you get the giant turkey guy special character or who can be built is also the normal dude on giant turkey and you get uh you get three uh bulky shooty boys okay again we'll assume this is kind of in the normal price range this one's uh this one's a low score from me not just because cruel boys are like bad right now i mean they kind of are but also because this just feels super light yeah it's just two big models and a couple other small things you know like this doesn't feel like the way to go about this as opposed to like the squig box okay i mean i like turkey boy and i like derrick they're both good it's just i'm not paying for a whole battle force box for them and right yeah if i maybe like two units of standard swamp bogglers or something but i don't i have one any any disagreements okay no no let's move stampeding squiggle ranch everything you'd ever want in your squig themed squig orific squig party uh two mangler squigs which can obviously be built as either the boss or the regular a squig herd which is like the 12 model unit and the loon boss on cave squig and then 10 of the hoppers which can be hoppers or bounders okay i mean here's what i'll say about this one a it's all squigs what else are you gonna give this it's a solid a it contains what is amazing about this there's no trolls in this box tom there's no trolls in this box did you notice that i know you know how much you know how much i already noticed that mince how much you already ordered for this i did i i've already preordered this yes indeed this is a box i really like because if you're getting into gloomspite and what you want to play is squigs you look at this box and it features just a bunch of squigs yeah and it's all squig that you would probably play if you were going to want to play squigs right like it's everything that i'm gonna want in generally the numbers that i'm gonna want them like i'm gonna want one small boss probably yeah i'm gonna want at least one mangler probably two if you're not running probably two probably two yep i i don't think i'm gonna want to herd now at this point but that's you know it's not not the end of the world like i can always it's good to be ready because you don't know what the new rights book will bring right exactly exactly and then those hoppers can build as either boingrod or hoppers uh those 10 in the back so um i mean i i like the box um especially because basically the two manglers are the cost of a normal one of these boxes about oh really you get that much for i think because i think each of these are almost 100 each mangler they're like 80 or 85 um so maybe not so maybe it's those two plus the foot hero would be the cost of the box and then the the other two units because that that the that herd unit is one unit and then the 10 hoppers are one boxes sure it needs an ale goes there to become a plus can we ban this guy yeah well there's the gifts boxes have had this wonderful classic history of including random units for no reason right for a long time it was just they threw in an ale guzzler because there were extra sprues around the factory and then it was like me they did it to my people as well yep they agree then it'd be three trolls like here's all your squigs and a guest starring three trolls for no reason thanks okay the scaven box i feel i can speak with authority on this one uh so this is a pretty wild box because it's like a bell which can be built as either the bell of the furnace and then 40 clan rats 40 plague monks the bombardier and three uh storm fiends so like from just the mass infantry combined with the most elite unit in the in the thing the sort of verringard of scaven right these these storm fiends and bodies it is bodies um like my legit statement on this one is this is a goodbye for you if you're if you're interested in scaven you just absolutely do not build it as the bell because that is a complete waste trash unit right now it's the worst unit in the book you build it as the furnace however which is actually quite a interesting unit that can do things and is has a valid function in the army so that's nice you got your two units of clan rats 20 and 20 easy chaff you got a big old pack of of uh plague monks which is like what 40 yeah yeah and plague monks have many uses in lists because they have a built-in bonus charge they can do all sorts of like pop-up and charge on eight tricks which is fun bombardier is awesome great engineer storm fiends are good still shocker of shockers so yeah solid just never ever ever build the bell as long as the current book exists because it's trash so yeah i agree with germ it's a great starter if you plan on going wide with scaven yeah yeah it provides you a good base um like the engineer and the clan rats and uh we'll show up in just like basically every list you're right so uh all right uh the legion of grief tom i'm coming to you on this one this has uh i already know that this is not a highly rated box because i see this thing sitting over here and this is a big problem we have lady oh then we have 10 i'm gonna say grim guests then we have i guess this is 10 dread site heritans i don't know if those can be built to something else or not i don't know what any of these things can be built as they've got 10 yeah yeah blade geist revenants these all look like this is like what you play this and fire slayers these are why do you play armies where none of the troops can be told apart do you want to know the answer and then of course you have the black coach do you want me to answer that yes sure the painting techniques all the same so i can be uniform across i can be consistent um uh so the answer is yes actually it was uh 10 grim guests 10 blade uh 10 blade geist revs 10 dread site heritans a lady oh and the black coach um it's fine all right none of your little none of your little dudes no little dudes no yeah no chain rest port actually it's not fine i'm lying to you and here's why yeah because the way that the book is designed it incentivizes you to go deep like so if you choose your sub faction you're either gonna go on dread sites to ignore the wards or deep on blade geist to do the mortal wounds right you're not gonna you're not gonna run this but you're not gonna do both you're just simply not gonna do both and then you may run and then if you're not in one of those sub factions then you run grim gas which are the top option right so it gives you three possible starters that you're not gonna you're gonna you're almost never gonna run any of those three units together um so that's problem next uh yeah silvaneth we get draka power armor angry tree lady two tree lords which can all be built as either a regular tree lord or a tree lord ancient or dirthu spirit of comma and then you get a bunch of dry adds and is there like a branch witch in here as well or is this all dry adds to 16 dry adds really that's the number we're still doing the 16 dry adds because they're like eight of the sprues because that's that's it's two sprues buddy love it this is the world we live in okay well you can take the dry adds and more or less throw them in the bin but that's fine you got you got you've got 10 dry adds and then you have six extra dry adds for basing bits okay cool conversions fine it is a cheap battle I needed the spite revs I don't remember if those care are the same sprues true revs or not I think they are they are yes yeah having built some yes they are yeah but draka and the tree lords are all awesome as are tree revs like if you're getting two units of tree revs two tree lords draka and then some rando battle line you might use it in army to round it out that's an a box to me yeah this for me what this says is this is a great like getting started box right this is like this is this covers your bases you may throw in a unit of dry of dry adds you may throw in a unit of you know you're probably gonna have a unit tree revs um and you're probably you know like one of those three big big boys you're gonna run at least if not two so um yeah I don't hate it yeah it's just missing the kernoff yeah you got to go out and pick up like three boxes of kernoff so yo yo that's okay you'll enjoy it you'll enjoy playing those yeah it's fine it's good stuff all right the thunderstrike spearhead which comes with uh vanquishers okay like a good number of vanquishers like 10 vanquishers if something happened to vanquishers recently to make them good I don't remember being terrifically impressed before but they got they were not four up but they got cheap they're down at 110 which makes them much more interesting right and like 10 vanquishers is actually how I would run them um I think they are an interesting unit at 220 now they're like they're like creeping as a possibility into the world you get 10 shooty boys uh which also went down in points considerably yeah they're vigilors yeah which went down as well like 20 points 175 I'm still not sure they're worth it but they're okay uh you get two dragons great you get three annihilators with grand hammers great obviously awesome and you get a knight rellecter which you will convert to a lord rellecter yeah you'll take that rock any pack off of him and uh give him some sort of banner to be holding yep yep it's all you gotta do real easy this is my lord rellecter all stormcast heroes look alike this is him you know the night the night went down in points in the in that battle that battle it did needs to drop about another 100 how much is he now 125 needs to drop about another 120 before I put him in a list you can go lower yeah uh I'm I'm I'm like luke warm on vanquishers this one gets like a b-minus from me is my honest answer just because like it's a lot of units I'm pretty luke warm on in its main troops vigilors I don't know I kind of like it like I look at it I'm like I want 10 of those units and 10 or 10 of those models and 10 of those and a couple dragons and I want three hammer hammer strike or yeah sure the annihilators yeah annihilates granite hammers like I got it I'm like only the foot dude is the only one I'm like no okay sure I'm glad the hammer guys are pictured because sometimes in these boxes you only get like one option yeah yeah and if I saw shields on there I'd be a little yeah yeah indeed that's all our battle force boxes okay cool let's keep going what's next um yeah certainly so we have uh by the way some people said this would pair nicely with dominion I don't disagree with that it actually like if you have the dominion half of stormcast you basically have a pretty good size army there so uh and Michael I am absolutely sleeping on the night rellector I am sleeping yeah hard pass okay um so let's jump to the FAQs but particularly one that's slept by quite a few individuals yeah because the STD book STD book got a FAQ day one they said that there was an error in the book and indeed there was a negative two weeks yeah yes day negative a week batch technically yes yes yeah I guess it did drop before the the the book and that is is that that the four up ward that everybody was crying foul on our four up ward the four up uh rally that everybody was so fearful of it's actually by them yeah right we got a early design pass probably on it as my guess yes yes yeah um and then as well the uh because these aren't the books that like so this isn't so the book that we're getting in here is a special cover one right yeah this is the collector's this is the collector's one that's only coming into this box that would have been printed like way before the actual other one yeah and so I suspect maybe it might be updated when we get the new one because I think they said that in the non-English versions they're all five up ward or the five up rallies not the four up yeah and we the gigaminers in Haywood discord were translating Chinese and French ones and the numbers were the same on those oh but I'm not sure if those were like the real Chinese ones or if just somebody translated and then we translated it back after not knowing so I'm not I don't know but other way I don't know that it's too big of a deal it's interesting that you're getting the collector's edition which is wrong but I guess you're paying for the cover on that one yeah and I suspect the normal book will have these same errors in it by the way oh you think so okay yeah I do too um because I think just the wrong file went to the printer and you'd wrap the the like the way those books are put together the core file is separate from the cover with those with that binding like the cover file gets wrapped into the guts it's just the stock of paper and the edging and stuff like that because they have the gold leaf edge and so on anyways okay let's talk changes real quick yep because there are six changes we're a little more than one error there are six errors and there are more FAQs that that aren't in here uh perhaps a serpentine one we'll have to see yeah yeah the the interesting part about the slaves book when we talk about it next week is it was really clearly taken a big swing at a big change at a lot of like we're gonna completely redefine this army and when they go that far off script like they're just they're cutting from whole cloth they got messy clearly whereas the ogre book he is gonna you know spoilers it he was a little closer to its existing historical framework let's say my chagrin yeah yes and uh not not really a lot of FAQs or issues in the ogre book pretty pretty tight pretty tight writing so at any rate okay uh the mark of cast for the mark of zinch the warp reality teleport spell was fixed so that the unit can't move after you tell him that was a hundred percent guarantee yeah because there's the prize of no one just got all the sentence yes it is now the six it's not the sixth or seventh time they forgot to add that sentence to a teleport and they have become very efficient at it yes yes the realm warpers twist rune actually got a power change so clearly this was an earlier version thing in the book it only triggers on a six up that they suffer a mortal wound now instead it triggers on a five up so you'll do slightly more mortal wounds once again with this completely worthless thing that used to be a totally free thing you could do at the end of movement every time you moved um good stuff uh pour one out for the demon princes in advance for next week uh okay the demonic speed went up one casting value in the book it's a six here it's a seven otherwise it's the same um this is correct by the way like it shouldn't be that easy to make your units all charged on it is a very good spell and there are a lot of paths oh sorry what go ahead and don't skim it it does only work on mounts don't get your hopes up but that's still basic and turns out your mounted units are pretty good spoilers ahead for std but yes yes there are multiple paths to charging three six inches is what i was going to say in this book oh yeah yeah true um so like it's the it shouldn't just be a thing that you get to that that is so super easy so i'm happy with that uh ensorcell banner on the ensorcell banner so you got sort of two changes here one is just you have to sort of designate who has the banner and stuff like that yada yada it's not it can't just be like a morphously in the unit someone is physically holding that thing it's not a scaven assassin where you hide a banner somewhere in the squad and then you reveal it later when it's the last thing alive yeah right which that's fine that was just a clarification we all would probably assume that but but good and then they're telling they're telling you on purpose to play however one probably just should anyway so and then you have an actual power correction in that the nergal ensorcell banner was ridiculously overpowered and way too strong and it got knocked down into where it should be it's still a very good banner it used it like in the book as it's printed it has a 12 inch or a bubble of worsening the neg one rend around a unit of potentially 20 or 30 chaos warriors which is just ridiculous amazing it got um it got brutally nerfed all the way down to very very good right right it's now only really good yes and then finally the the change that yes everybody was complaining about as already mentioned the rally that was on a four up and host the ever chosen is actually on a five up and verringard were removed from that buff so it's okay your verringard are still good you just might look to a different sub faction um yes indeed there's one where they're pretty pretty good um we'll talk about next week there was also another tranche of faq drops today most of them were very small very minor correction stuff the important part to understand there is you've got two current s2d uh eradas and the archion scroll in the old one is not the correct archion scroll but it is until the new book is tournament legal because because the old book isn't sorry because the new book isn't tournament legal until the book itself comes out for gw events they now have to hold archion is in this liminal state where he exists in in two forms at the same time where he is both his old scroll that's in the faq where they had to also update the gaunt summoner to be in line and correct how he works to make him to bring him in line with the other stuff and then the new archion will supplant that scroll once this book becomes tournament legal completely obvious right no why then why would this be confusing at all the sarcasm okay weird um yes and then so now there are like three gaunt summoners floating around in two different s2d books and once each book and then at the same time the the meaningful faq we got today in the in the today's drop was that if a model basically if a model has on their war scroll that they know all the spells of allure the question was do they bring that with them uh into the other uh armies if they're allied answer no because it's an enhancement oof okay big change that is new and heavy hey well what's your take on this he's sad about it you happy about it what do you care um i i actually thought i thought the opposite i didn't know the people were doing this i suppose um i looked at oh you get all the spell lures from that other army but that other army i mean spell lures are an allegiance ability so i figured it didn't get them and so when this came out i'm like yep i figured and then all sorts of people online were like very surprised i'm like oh i must have missed the i missed a bunch of people assuming the opposite there's a there's like a decent argument for the other side though right um like tom mentioned before uh it like it says you do that on the war scroll and there's a convention now maybe not when this thing was being written but where you say if this is in a such and such army then you get this and so that it's even more obviously disconnecting it from that and it didn't have that language on it so maybe it was a question but the question answered chaos soup is confusing and chaotic and it frightens me yeah and so i just stay away from it and see where the dice land on that stuff i'm not that's why we got to get you on the coalition kind of allies i'm not kind of i like to keep it you know i got ogre army i'm playing ogre as i got you know fish army to play fish see hey well we're gonna get you on the scaven train because everybody hates scaven in the in the lore of the world so they don't end like nobody allies into them no they don't they never want friends zero confusion you're just running everyone's even especially scaven correct that's what's great about it it's wonderful all we got to do is whenever we get those new sculpts which i'm sure are coming i'm gonna say probably summer this year it's it's a never we'll get another book we're the lumineff of 2023 i'm calling working on them for 38 you're not you're not stop stop feeding the hopes and dreams of of scaven players everywhere you shut your face so when this happens we use some spider gloom spider instead as soon as you get some spider gloom spider then we'll get some of that then we'll get those silent people that everybody's inventing out of whole cloth then we'll get those malaria and elves that were just around the corner every six months for the past four and a half years finally it'll be that thing all your dreams will come true chat very nice all right anything else that we uh anything else in the news stop answering my wife tom and answer my question anything else in the news um other than uh no uh again we covered the f a q lord stuff so that was the one cool very good all right long news section today but that's all right uh we knew this was going to be a big one so uh let's move on to some pick of the week hey well what would you like to share what would you pick for everybody uh well my pick is are the most recent things I have been watching on youtube and I'm not really a battle report watcher necessarily um however this weekend I consumed a lot of that type of content because overs just came out and I need to kind of know what I'm talking about because I'm going to be on the show you might have heard of old warhammer weekly pretending to be an expert about it so I'm like well I'm going to watch some battle reports and see what's going on and I watch oh I don't know probably eight maybe 10 of them and I watched ogre's absolutely mr plow monster truck over whom stood so ever they were fighting and win every single game and so I'm ready to complain about how they're not actually that good please believe and um when I liked very much as a friend of the show re-rolling once his blood pelt hunter that he has already bought and fully painted up and customized is in a tree stand on the base on like a pine tree maybe five or six inches tall inside a little tree stand a shooting down or hunter stuff action I liked it I thought it fit perfectly didn't do much in the game but it was a great little great little conversion well as everybody who is from Wisconsin knows uh tree stand safety is really important oh yeah get that harness on there screw those uh climbers up in there yeah it's important tom what's your pick of the week um actually it's one of your old videos um and that is uh your hobby cheating 315 how to paint nergal um with slaves of darkness coming and I may have a box on pre-order I uh I was like you know let me uh let me let me check out how to paint some of this nergal stuff maybe I'll maybe I'll bust out some slaves and so I watched it and it's just a great video uh it shows all the things you need so check it out very nice uh for myself I'm going to of course spruke our guest which is Haywo who has both really everything you need when it comes to the ogre book if you want to go beyond this and what I mean by that is we have a uh I will link his twitch channel and his youtube because we have the perfect two minute video that's going to really summarize everything we're going to spend a couple hours you're talking about uh I will link to that but also you can go watch the eight hour video stream of him going through everything and even more crushing detail than we will today so depending on which side you find yourself on whether you want the ultimate summary or the deepest dive Haywo has you covered so there you go yeah I got uh I got the exciting short meme filled video for the zoomers and I got the long thick full eight hour plus a bunch of note taking for the boomers who like uh a different type of excitement okay I guess absolutely uh so I will link out to those down below okay gentlemen let's talk about uh little hobby time uh Haywo I know you were sharing some hobby out on twitter because uh you were forced to pay the tax uh as we all know that's the rules and we follow we follow the rules yeah so what you're working on what's on your desk um hey you remember uh you remember uh a year or two ago when I was working on that mopot conversion and then I stopped working on that mopot conversion because uh I had a bunch of other stuff going on in my life and every time I had time to hobby I'm like I might as well stream the hobby and if I couldn't stream but I had time to work on the hobby I might as well take a video edit in contract or work on a youtube video and so just somehow the hobby never happened well new ogre book it's time to get real let's finish that mopot and then I read the book and it's not going to be a mopot it could be something else I don't know maybe uh I'm probably going to buy a crag nose tomorrow rip his head and part of his shoulders and stuff off string them up on the uh maw pole take his weapon and shield give it to the ogre um you know just when in doubt put more stuff on it sure just just continue this frankensteinian monster you're creating I love it let's say I see no issues wouldn't you won't even be able to pick it up when I'm done with it perfect tom what's been on your desk my dog yeah so um I have actually been working on uh a commission uh that keeps on changing it might be because I'm taking a while but it I was working on some stuff and then some units got added and then I'm working on some stuff and they're like hey some mislaced darkness stuff can you work on that so so I just I'm in this perpetual build train trying to get back to the like painting priming stage but I'll get there so I've been shipping working through some silver nests and slaves to darkness stuff I had put a bunch of um of my holy wars army together um but we'll see about that so and then you know because spending money as part of the hobby uh I might have picked up like a lot of zeech halves of the the dual boxes over that I've dropped over the like somebody at a local store was like a local store was breaking them up and selling them off and I was like oh are you well what are you doing with all those old athor and arcane claticism halves for zeech because I want discs right like I want zangor I I want like that's what I was wanting and they're like oh yeah you know well x number of dollars per half and I was like okay I'll do that and so I picked up like a couple athor war halves couple arcane cataclysm and have basically all the zangor I'm ever going to need have no idea what I'm going to get to them but I have them now so that happened so buying is part of the hobby right that's the thing right certainly certainly yes buying is certainly an activity it is it is an activity absolutely uh for myself I haven't been able to hobby super much over the course of the week because for the obviously after last week's show I went in at surgery and then you can't I couldn't really sit in this chair comfortably for any amount of time and hobby but I did manage to get some stuff still progressed uh so I've got my king broad conversion he's coming along his skin is mostly done and I'm working on some armor plates and stuff like that so he's he's got some paint going on oh he's got a big old wiggly hand too I like it yeah wiggly hand you know he's got the grabby hand that's that's for doing the body slam yeah perfect that's his body slam claw um so he's coming along I'm excited about this dude still some more a little more work to do there on on popping that skin up but it's in a decent place and then at the same time I've also been very slowly chipping away at the first model for my uh golden demon unit which is going to be these ogroid uh pherodons because I really love them cool and uh as you can see if you look at the model like this it basically looks like I've painted nothing and then if you flip them around it looks like I've painted many things because I am doing each section of skin uh on the model in one incredibly long detailed process like each little area is you know a couple hours of work or whatever because that's how golden demon projects work and this is just the first pass I'm sure I'll have to come back and do much more on these afterwards so every little skin is slowly getting blocked in off of the the black uh undercoat there as you can see that's that's about where we are right now um but uh it's an incredibly rewarding process to paint like that like I get why you see like I love the the sort of Instagram display painter of like a painted space marine leg right because it is this incredibly rewarding thing to have the model just be sort of primed black and then you just paint a hand and you sit down and you're going to be like look my only goal today is this hand if I'm done with this hand in the next two hours that's an absolute win right and you you feel like you you hit you hit some gold and the next time it's like I'm going to do his forearm or whatever right and life continues one one piece at a time uh that's that where we go so there we go um so that's my hobby the big guy is a much more fun project he's he's a little loose he's keeping it loose the little guy I have to alternate back and forth or I'll lose my sanity so there we go all right break it up a little bit yeah you gotta have like the fun project where I can just kind of go nuts and play around with stuff and not have to care about being perfect to counterbalance the I am spending two hours painting an upper thigh uh knowing that that's only the first two hours of of many hours on set upper thigh okay gentlemen let's talk about uh let's talk about okers shall we uh let's bring it up here we go the big boys are back now the big yes hey well I think truly one of the great sadness is that you would that you feel that you you like there's a there's a hole in your soul you're not even aware is there and what I mean by that is you know ogres weren't a super long pedigreed army within warhammer fantasy so they only came out in the mid 2000s okay and when they initially came out they were so strong they came out in sixth edition of memory serves and they were so strong uh because they would just bowl over people as they charged in they would just do these crushing damage that many armies would just wither under instantly like always be charging the abc's were in effect and it was unreal to just get just watch this army just run ham over most anybody when they launched right it was a great time now obviously that was more of a gut buster period right that was because that's what ogres were they weren't they didn't have the big boys yet that you you came to love I was reminded of that story when I read this book is what I'll say in that it feels like we'd seized back on the original concept of the army and in fact that's my summary here like if you liked ogres before you still like ogres now this is less revolution more evolution it's a solid tone overall there's some nice options there is better internal balance there are some notable exceptions it's still fairly merit sorry it's still fairly monosyllabic as an army like it lives by the abc's always be charging that's basically the plan no plan b it distracts from plan a uh as it were they do have some good access to mortal wounds and higher damaging attacks which just which will put them on a footing where like the sheer amount of mortal wounds they can cause slash the higher damage attacks they have will sometimes just win them games like there's some armies that will just wither under that yeah uh they have some incredibly tough hero options like some of the toughest heroes in the game will be found in this army like most defensive is what I mean yeah uh and I think overall it still didn't get it still feels like we didn't get all the love that this book deserved like we missed some opportunities for improvement uh so that's my overall summary hey well what's your what's your 40 000 foot foot view yeah I think I think I agree with that um I don't have the deep long pedigree of warhammer fantasy battle because I never played that game I parachuted in when age sigmar got points and kind of looked around and had to figure out what was going on so I picked up these clocks I like big monsters and monster trucks and so here we are um yeah they very much are they're the it's not I mean it's kind it's a funny it's a catchy saying right but it's not like literally always be charging usually it's charge at the right moment and make sure you get those charges because if you don't you're significantly weaker on what you're going to be doing and most of the changes to the book just juice that idea up yeah so if you you're playing ogres and oh something goes wrong maybe you get out positioned you get outplayed somebody else charges you and you're not the one charging um it's just as bad as it used to be which was not good most of your like your new monster actions only work if you charge you get bonus damage when you charge you get impact hits when you charge all this other stuff right and so it's a really um it's one of those gambler play uh play roulette sort armies you push all the chips in forward if you get the charges you might be in for some potentially unsatisfying games in a casual setting because if if your army is all in on the charge and you do that and then both players just roll priority and you get the double you might just like the game might be actually over especially like in a casual thing and so I think a little unfortunately maybe in casual settings you're going to have the ogre player who gets all the charges that he wants and then rolls a double and the person is crushed and it might not be too fun or maybe interesting or something like that um but that's the big risk right because if you don't then you're kind of crushed and you're like well okay I'll just play better next time and that's fine but um that was like seven of the battle reports that I watched over the weekend um although they were featuring iron blasters and stuff obviously because thems are real good sure so yeah if you're if you're not trying to get the charge you might just look for a different army maybe for the new players who are looking around and like who I really like charging and I like shooting big cannons step into my office you're gonna have a great time if you're trying to do almost anything else maybe not it's interesting because this is a fairly different melee army but it does feel like it's competitive with like iron jaws which is obviously the sort of preeminent melee only army out there right now but I think this is I think that's are quite good now yeah I think that's are quite good and more than just like uh maybe the best thing in the ogre book but now as we've brought now to like the actual game of age of sigmar they might be good in the game of age of sigmar now and this will be a first for gut buster since the game began um famous uh just as deadly sayings notwithstanding but yeah it's it's time all the gut buster players who have owned iron blasters for six years waiting to put them on the table in a way that feels good rejoice this is your time uh please enjoy actually yeah I think it's interesting because my my super high level read and tom i'm gonna come to you in just a second yeah is they clearly want you they don't see any difference between gut busters and bcr like to them that distinction is dead yeah and this is just going and it's even more going away yeah I think right that's that's where we're being pushed we put on the giant snapback a tinfoil hat now and um yeah looking at what they did and what they didn't do in this book it's clear that you're just supposed to push the factions together and play a little bit of a mix yeah and um didn't really bother with trying to really round out who I just want to play my own special unique guys or or um my little pet units or whatever it's about producing one or two like pretty good army lists that can hit that 50-55% in that meta thing yep and everything else look we got a lot of books to release right it happened with a lot of third edition tom's where people read the book they got the old version in their left hand they got the new version in their right hand and they're like oh I feel so bad about this but like the first time you read a book is the worst you're ever gonna feel about all those changes because you're like directly comparing oh I wish this would have been updated or something was done on this and it didn't but after a month whenever you build a list you're just taking the good stuff and you're not even thinking about like that thing that you were disappointed about when you're doing it and this has happened for most of the third edition books now you know oh it would have been nice if they did more with some of the sub factions in lumenath it would have been nice if they did more with some of the sub factions in sob it would have been nice if they did more with this or that and fire slayers or all these other books but at the end of the day there's one sometimes as many as three highly decent or even great lists out of these books they're performing well and if you like the faction play the good stuff and enjoy yourself yeah tom what's your high level read there's mortal wounds everywhere sure just good like i like i know it sounds silly but like yes they're high they are going to be they're going to be throwing damage around we know that right they're big meaty fists they have lots of damage profile like high damage profiles but just the raw amount of of mortals really caught me out as i began to like survey all of the abilities like every other chart was on a two plus d three mortal you know on it on a two plus d six mortals right like um they whether it whether it's on a charge whether it's after charge with the monster's rampage whether it's a one per game ability um whether it's a gulping bites right like all of it just all of it is mortals um and i think that that's really gonna add up not unlike nercle right like i think that the attrition from that is going to be way higher than what i think most people interested yeah over the weekend i got a game in a team game with new s2d both of us playing s2d against a combination of ogres and and lumina and i basically pair off against the ogre iam got it was more or less a pretty straight game there yeah the classic pairing of lumina and ogres yeah yeah time honored tradition of ogre hand and high elf hand shaking yeah absolutely just uh the but what occurred to me as i was watching it unfold was actually how much of a nightmare ogres would be to lumineath right because the the lumineath player was running a uh like an allerith uh or eumetrica stone build right so we had avanor and stone guard and all the the stone mage and basically everything you'd want in that list and you know the my my teammate who was fighting him was also running s2d and was running like a heavy cab version so just like ren 2 everywhere in the army right but just nothing just nothing to the to the lumineath i mean he was just like bonk every time he bonk bonk right just accomplishing nothing and all i could think was if those were ogres charging in in equal amount there just wouldn't be lumineath units there anymore right because they they would have just smashed them off the table because that's just like zero protection for that in the army or specifically run three off of the cannons and underguts sure sure which is you perfectly get around some of the allerith stuff absolutely so all right enough uh foreplay let's get into the actual thing oh pro tip for opponents uh consider not getting charged the big one yeah this chaff is your friend if it's a thing you can do in your army um you know just roll do that uh okay so uh let's talk about their allegiance ability shall we so so ravenous brutes they're still hungry and eating that's that's what it is it it is what you think it is too bravery to move it's like it was great it's great so any allegiance any allegiance ability that says plus two move basically always i can't complain it's fun i like moving fast who doesn't still good uh this is obviously for ogres which is an important note because there are some units in this army that aren't ogres and so those don't benefit from it but still good it's a good ability it was a clever thing and nicely they actually did do they actually did a couple things with hungry and eating in the later rules i'm like that's a callback good very good i'd like to see it maybe you know turn that up turn that yeah the previous book they introduced it and then did nothing with it yeah there's like one artifact that called back to it it was bad but so now there's more they were on the right path play the long game it's gen changes generational all right exactly uh gulping bites which is what the secondary attack profile became so that which this is how these kinds of things should be done by the way if like every cavalry unit ever just got a special rule it was just like and then the ponies kick and it was just like at the end of combat roll a die and do a couple three attacks fours and fours no rend instead of that waste of time yeah yes i i hate secondary attacks that are just totally pointless and because just a bunch of dice rolling for nothing and obviously that's when you'll be real excited that these class section we got all the punches and kicks you could possibly enjoy still so bow we're kicking oh i've got i got it yeah we're going to get into that but yes this was a good change just if you're if the enemy units are then three inches of a gut buster ogre unit at the end of the combat phase on a four up they suffer d3 mortals cool yeah i love it uh when i'm reading rules i'm often thinking about the length of age sigma games and the amount of trivial feeling things you can sometimes be doing and when we are streamlining that that is great i didn't want to roll a bunch of bad attacks with no rend that have one inch reach and didn't really do anything and at the end of the day deals maybe two damage uh at the end of combat roll one die two mortal wounds were done easy same damage generally except mortal wounds cool let's get on with it beautiful change like please streamlining more of that would like to heal maybe but can't be too much it could certainly could have been a heal but that's okay that's for like the minotaurs i guess minotaurs do you get to get to do that or something i don't know okay might makes right still largely what it was before but there is one and very important change here namely that friendly ogre maw tribes heroes now count as five models whereas you are the ones without a uh that aren't monsters count as five i should say whereas the monster ones count as 10 and all the other ogres are two great good change yeah that that's perfect that's um i agree that's uh just it makes perfect sense i was hoping we would get that for the trampling charge maybe give heroes on photo five up or something but um there are ways to do that it's fine i like the change right exactly now might makes right feels worse than it ever will feel in the future because you're going to be standing as to conquistadors triple capturing and just simply out out doing you but ghb rules are seasonal it's temporary in the test games that i did over the weekend to pretend like i know what i'm talking about right now i didn't even play with ghb specific rules because i'm thinking to the future i'm not thinking to like next few months maybe you know yep yeah we've jettisoned all the bounty hunters and expert conqueror stuff in my in my uh in my in my club here my crew uh the only thing we kept was the battle brothers thing where you can fight in two ranks because we're like that's how the game just should work you know you mean the beta test for fourth edition right exactly we're like let's just keep the obvious good rule and then we can just jettison the rest of this crap because no one cares um let's actually play with the units that like we all we all agree bounty hunters is dumb let's just stop using it okay cool great we did that next um trampoline charge so i really like the change with trampoline charge because even though on net it will mean sometimes you have a lower number i feel that the vast majority of cases you will have a higher number so what okay how's this work uh when a friendly ogre or rhinox unit makes a charge you pick an enemy with within an inch one enemy unit within one inch and you roll a number of dice equal to the unmodified charge roll every six up is a mortal wound now you get to add one to that if the ogre unit has three or more models it used to be you got basically to do it on a four up so add two to the roll if you had eight or more models which is just like a way too high like that was way too high that's a lot that's a lot that is too many models okay and so but now with three basically that's all the units so all your gut buster people will be charging in and doing it on a five up very respectable number i like the five up i take the chaos chariot because it has the exact same rule it does it on a five up and i've always found that to be completely respectable there is a way to improve it further and then your monsters still get their four up so your big monster truck still do it on a four up yeah and if you feel a little sad that oh man but my i actually wanted to play the huge unit and get the four ups have no fear you can reacquire your four ups as we read on with the gut busters anyway yes i am a little i'm a little sad that mournfang have once again for the second book perfectly serpentine dodged and weaved to avoid half of the allegiance abilities somehow like might makes right is real bad for them in units of two your min your normal unit of mournfang is a unit of two which exactly doesn't count for trampling charge um you can't get a banner or a hornblower anymore if you're in a unit of two they just can't hold on to anything you got to go all in you got to get you got to use four for 350 if you want to essentially use your allegiance stuff but um they got some sauce so yeah mournfang are so funny in how they keep being just like the you said it right the serpentine path they are the neo of dodging allegiance abilities they're just like not getting affected by any of it i have all the right keywords and uh and yet i must sleep yep uh grasp of the everwinter is still bad and won't ever do anything so we can just and it's exactly gulping bites only worse now right so it's just like the same thing you know gulping bites and a combat deether motor wounds grasp of the everwinter start of your hero phase only one thing except except worse yeah yeah it's uninspiring you are less than a battle round so vast majority of the actual game it's harder to do happens less often right insanity yeah and it's just the same thing is helping bites now so we we have basically the same rule printed twice in the allegiance ability section for the two different sub factions except one is just kind of worse i would have liked to see um something i would like to see something i'm not i'm not asking for a tides of death although i for sure am but uh hey maybe next book maybe next time but that's okay bcr players front not you may still be stuck with crappy grasp of the everwinter but i'm here to say that in fact you did get another allegiance ability and you got the second best monsters rampage in the game true so yeah that ain't bad and it's actually pretty close we thought that nothing would ever be better than roar but pretty close it's it is solid so let's let's talk about it here we go uh you get new monster spam pages they are keyed to one for stonehorn one for thunder tusk as you mentioned they are both triggered you have to actually charge so you can't just a lot of people forget that one with the thunder tusk one but yep and uh you can do them instead of your other monster spam pages okay fine great cool what do they do well let's start with unstoppable charge only stonehorns when you use the only a stonehorn that's made a charge move basically remember the timing of this this is at the end of the charge phase so you've charged in let's say you've nailed that the standard seven inch charge right you rolled the seven on the dice completely average number so you've done three or four mortal wounds to some unit you just charged into because of the trampling charge now it's time for you to monster spam page so you will select unstoppable charge at which point you will roll 3d6 dice you can move and can pass across enemy units in the same manner as unit that can fly yep and you have to finish the move you must finish the move within three inches of any enemy unit so you got to stay in combat which is fine yeah good that's where I want it to be anyways true go on and at the end of the move you roll a dice for each unit it passed across on a two up that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds so let's let's now let's let's just make this as simple as possible here's the person's like this is this is your standard sort of player that thought nothing about this ability here's their chaff line and then here's the unit they care about here's the unit they care about here's a character they care about you charge their chaff line you do some mortal wounds to it you roll your 3d6 you drift over the top of the chaff unit over the top of the side unit and land yourself right there facing their their special hero unit you've jumped their line you've done some splash mortal wounds to those two units and now you're fighting the thing that they were trying to protect now you have to be able to land 120 mil base back there so people can counterplay it yeah your your opponent has to kind of let you do it which i've seen many times happen in the battle reports that i've watched over the weekend and they'll learn the first time people play against anything new it's a big shock and then they learn but uh this is fun i have two important things to say about this first notice how you're not rolling a dice to see if you can even do this i know you just roll 3d6 it's not like three up and then you roll the 3d6 and then you roll for the d3 mortal wounds you're just doing it um have i rolled a three when i was trying to do something really clever with this yes um was it still good actually yeah actually yeah it was the same as how i used to be i got i got i even got my d3 mortal wounds as if i had chosen stomp right and yeah like if you come into the pocket like the meeting of two or three units even like a three it's every unit that you fly over right yeah so you just like move up and move back and you're like i'm good i've flipped everybody you'll take d3 you take d3 and finally you and okay now we fight oh actually we don't fight at the beginning comment i'm gonna metal crunch okay now now we finally fight all right now i'm ready and the other thing i really like about this this reminds me of the sons of behemoth battle tom this reminds me of a particular rule the suplex you know it's a sob book which was them we talk about psychographic profiles sometimes on the warhammer weekly show and about like trying to get into the mind of the type of brain that is going to want army a instead of army b yeah and you look at sons of behemoth and i didn't think about this before and i probably should have they're like what if it was like wwe super japanese wrestling lucio we're just doing combos we're power bombing people it is the absolute perfect uh demo for that type of person and here we have monster trucks yep you did it that's that's the person who wants to play stone horns is a bunch of monster trucks so absolute bullseye and monster trucks love nothing more than than driving over other things yeah so i'm a fan it's fun to play it's very strong i've played a bunch of games over the weekend uh this is the real deal it's the good stuff this is part of the reason why you want to play beast claw if you want to play beast claw it's stuff like this and uh it's sweet anyway sorry uh totally yeah as you're saying yeah it's amazing like i this happened to me many times my opponent mentioned game had the you know had a frost lord on stone horn and he loved it he was just like every time he could he was just like yay running around right now i mean he didn't just drop it in the middle of my line because i knew this was here but he still did a bunch of mortal wounds and put himself in positions he wanted yeah right and also i'm usually not to just roll six's warhammer community article kind of guy but if you're rolling 18 on this thing there's probably nothing your opponent could have done the position to stop you from doing what is going to happen yeah you're just time to start i just ran over your army so i've dropped an 18 i've started rolling my dnd character so let's just move on to that exactly uh and then finally for the thunder tusk you get chill of the everwinter again if you made a charge move you roll a dice for each enemy unit within one inch of this unit on a three up the strike last effect applies to that unit until the end of the following combat phase which is again actually a very potent monsters rampage because it works on multiple units doing old school three up slanesh strike last okay uh the thing that like we got pounded into the dust for having now you have it here um the problem is is that it's on let's be honest probably as we'll see later probably not the unit you actually wanted to take necessarily into combat yeah and also like um strike last effects are so good because you get to capitalize on them so if if i get to go first and you get to go second and then i deal a bunch of damage to you and maybe kill you like that that's powerful if i get to go first and you get to go second an ideal on damage on on average can statistically two damage in combat if i do two damage to you and then like okay now it's your turn that was an average roll you're like oh man i was i was briefly afraid because i'm striking last but i guess you didn't do anything and then i'll just i'll just hurt you right yeah i mean clearly a big combos of driving a bunch of trucks into stuff sure right so you could do that you could have 1300 points all attacking one thing at once but i don't know i don't know yeah there this is very much the needs to yeah this very much needs to be part of a combo when we look at thunder tusks yeah to me this is like you're not this guy's going in alone and then fighting he needs to be part of something else where you're trying to put him in the pocket make multiple units go last and then have the other combo units all get to fight first yeah and if it's part of a combo you're throwing a lot of money at that problem so i'm not sure about it i tried it out on the table and it worked out about as well as i thought about it in theory grafting yeah it's going to be match up dependent to like there's some things that you really want to make strike last you know i think about things like i don't know gargants um but uh you know things that are going to be very heavy right and that just have to be removed um and so i think it's going to be i think it will be match up dependent it'll probably be sub optimal at the time yeah uh there is one silver lining though if you want to make this work somehow the best thing i could think of was a buddy cop movie between a thunder tusk and a unit of iron guts sure because iron guts have as we'll see later pile in twice but their second pile in is a strikes last oh yeah if you're fighting something that is striking last and it's your turn well you're going to get to activate twice before they are and so that's to me if you if you absolutely positively have to play a thunder tusk somehow iron guts are the are the partner for that one and they're the old grizzled partner in the the thunder tusk is the young hot shot new kid i agree about everything let's keep going all right let's talk about some command traits so we're split up here between our gut busters and our beast claw um as usual i'm not going to talk about all these instead we're just going to highlight what we think are actually interesting ones yeah uh so hey woe what's your what's your pick all out of this command trait list what's your what's your what's your top pick your hot pick okay so luckily they've given gut busters a single trait um they printed one trait here and it's both fun and good this is the combo that i like when i'm looking for traits and it is killer reputation tyrant only before this general setup for the first time you can pick an additional big name for them the big name cannot be the same as their first big name no mario marios over here and spoiler alert these two you will be choosing our fates seeker and death cheater unless you're memeing with crag nose then it will be brawler gods but there you go that's the fun one um it's very good at making a tyrant very hard to get killed that's useful the unfortunately there are no other ones printed in this book and if you're not trying to play a tyrant in gut busters depending on your list hey master of magic is right around the corner okay tom what's your what's your pick here uh i mean that sounded fun uh the extra name i i mean i got i got one for you if you're you i'll let you think for a moment well i mean okay go ahead touched by the everwinter i love making people priests the problem with the priests in this army is that they're very sorry i think you only meant the gut buster one oh no we're talking about yeah the whole yeah sorry i was okay i was everyone was waiting i didn't okay no all good all good i didn't want to steal i didn't mean to steal your your everwinter thunder no you are quite correct go on no i mean yeah touch by that is the right answer yeah your priests like your priests are cool your your your your actual prayer lore you'll get is not bad it has a good option that has some some stuff it can do and it's not that the priests have bad spells it's just that you're generally overpaying for them they're quite expensive for priests but if i can just make my frost lord a priest uh better just better yeah anytime that you can like add a keyword like that to a unit that's pretty good like there's not really another way to add priests to a unit and so i'm a big fan obviously of of that with touch touched by the everwinter um and there's yeah and like these people are likely going to be in the mix anyways right um and so it just raises some really interesting possibilities with things like curse because they're already in combat i mean they don't have to be obviously but don't have a beast called hero but that's just that's something that's interesting to me they'll generally be close where they could actually capitalize on using it yeah and the balancing part of curse is that it has a very short range and right there aren't many priests who want to get that close or can live until their hero phase when they're that close but uh frost lord on stone horn can often live when he's that close yes there is a question the game actually lifts him in a turn it's the it's the auto choice i play it in anything i'm running a frost lord generally and i'm choosing it it's awesome it's fun i generally take the heal you don't have to you can take the speedy boy move thing although it's probably um you got plenty of movement you can take the laser cannon that you have to hit on threes and twos for if you just want even yet more random incidental mortal wounds to be happening um you can take the yeti one if you've made a mistake and accidentally like your pen slipped and you circled that one but don't worry you can erase it um it's awesome yeah it's sweet uh voice of the avalanche is like yeah underrated but will never be chosen because issuing a command to anyone on the entire battlefield is actually very excellent it's it's very cool a lot of stuff in the beast claw army is inexplicably incapable of giving itself a command because it does not have a unit champion nor is it a lead a lot of stuff in beast claw half is like that and so voice of the avalanche is sort of like your your duct tape fixed to that uh to that problem but i still don't take it and i make the priest anyway probably sure but yes i was gonna i agree voice the avalanche is like also a solid second choice i do want to give a shout out here real quick to the weirdos in the world okay because i like when they write command traits for weirdos all right they should do more of it back master what look i like okay every other one gastro mancer is just yeah something i'm never gonna take because i don't care right like i probably didn't need that many spells right even even if i'm in whatever i didn't need it like you can you can have command traits that are just bad and like you can't picture the person who wants to use it right but ex mercenary all right there is a player who loves ex mercenary because they got all the old man-eater sculpts and they just want to play with their man-eaters and they don't care that they're bad they just think they're super cool because they are very flavorful unique they're bad they are bad yes still yeah they're bad but that's okay because like hey for that weirdo that weirdo this command trait opens up a whole new way to play the army right that you can make all your weird man-eaters uh battle line that's cool right that's like i don't care about the power level of command traits like there can be a couple that are good competitively if the other ones are there opening up like weird ways or fun ways to build the army and play who cares if they're not the competitive choices they're fun right do stuff like that so yeah yeah not everything needs to be amazing but everything does need to be fun or maybe have a point yep yep and that has a point it does something it changes fundamentally your army construction in a fun way right if you've got the ninja and the pirate and everybody all those different dudes and you're like yes now i get to finally use these guys and they're gonna be my main force like i'm gonna explain to my opponent what empire is because they won't know right i'm thrilled for that player like awesome they have an option good for them do more stuff like this gw please okay like uh like that's that's the kind of stuff i want to see is opening using command traits to open the door to new army builds that are that that allow for that kind of just fun play because most people don't ever go to a tournament they just want it they just want to play the army they want so all right let's talk artifacts okay hey well again both lists what's your what's your what's your hot pick on on the artifact list uh what what you're looking at here all right well um artifacts are uh they're a step up on the gut buster side i think you have more than one over here uh the first one though is gruesome trophy rack fan favorite from the last book add one to hit roles for tax made by friendly gut buster units holy within 12 of the bear the target a monster or a hero and this is great even though all out attack exists because um free real estate you don't spend that also there are certain individual units that you would like to target all four of boilers ahead but yeah gruesome trophy rack is great gives a nice little aura uh notice how unlike before it is not tyrant only it used to be tyrant only and that was the reason anyone ever took a tyrant ever um there's still a good reason to take a tyrant but yeah gruesome trophy rack is great just what you want put them around some cannons or just like be near something that's fighting a hero or monster and plus one it's a synergy is what i'm saying uh it's sometimes hard to find synergies in some of these books but we got one and it's a good one uh flasco stonehorn blood it's like maybe in okay second choice um to keep like a particular butcher alive and a particular turn that he's getting targeted by something so you can do a combo because it gives you a three up ward uh during a specific phase and it's kind of reminds me a little bit about of um cloak of darkness from idk back in the day where you could blank something um but your second choice is probably arcane tom sure as far as the i don't hate flasco stonehorn blood because i i agree it's like a it's like a you have a plan when you're taking this art of an artifact right right you have yourself a diagram that you're gonna follow you're like you know what this is gonna keep this alive for this exact moment to do this it's the johnny choice in a sense sure i'm trying to think of the exact magic counterspell that would perfectly like which variant counterspell exactly fits this story but it's buying you a turn for fairy's protection yeah it's it's a tempo play yeah right right that's that's what it is like it's a counter that bounces it back to their hand right right oh yeah uh remand right yeah right exactly yes our favorite remand maybe it's to fairy's protection if you're playing commander or something like oh i'm not dead this turn give me one more turn right um uh in the beast claw artifacts we lost our best artifact which is very sad um skull shrug all shards of dragar and this artifact has a history there's a story behind it in the first beast claw book it was skull of dragar in the second well in the first ogre book after that it was the skull shards of dragar so the thing is slowly deteriorating over time it's breaking and now it's gone we used it too much we overused it he used it once a game auto one bind saved my bacon every single game i ever played with beast claw um very important so that's gone and in exchange for that we have nothing so we're taking taking the old arcane tome unless you're trying to get a light laser with a laser cross talon shard bolts now that's where the shards went they went into that the one shot of the cross of the of the hunter uh yes shout out to the worst artifact maybe printed so far in 3.0 yeah that was the one if anybody's watched my meme that i made and i was the scientist creating the worst artifact you've ever seen this is the one i was thinking of right here no i mean if you want to go to the hunter's attack profile he has one attack with his crossbow one so he has two ranged weapons but so he has the crossbow which has one shot and so when you roll to hit with that one crossbow shot if you get a six it does d three mortar wounds the thing hits on a four normally it's just the worst it's just no so what would make it worse is if it if it stopped the attack program if it was a d three more and you don't you don't do anything else it is at least it's it is an addition it could be worse yeah but like when i when i looked over this list i was like you know what i don't know that ice for a hunter man if you were throwing three attacks on that that's not terrible like like that like you have my interest and i went and looked at it and i was like oh no oh no here's what's so funny about that ready i'm gonna rewrite this artifact right now and we into into a like vastly superior version that you'd still never take you ready yep okay frost talon shard bolts if you hit with the uh hunter's crossbow you deal d three mortal wounds in addition to your normal damage all right that's it just all the times i've gotten rid of the hit on a six and just said like if you hit you get a bonus d three mortals you mean it hits on a four so like that's still a 50 50 on lake right i would still never take that artifact that's a statement of how bad this is well not not only not only is it hitting on a 50 50 the other half of that is you're within 12 yeah sure yeah it is the total range to attacks yeah well no it's a longer it's longer but is it longer one nine and twelve oh no yeah so it's a long it's the longer one but but still you have to be within 12 and on a four up you do a d you know like even in that superior form it's trash let's stop talking about it okay yeah see if you're if you're forced to you take the seat of alvagar right yeah because so that way you can do to if you have a muscle core book and you don't know about universal artifacts you take see the valve of gear to set up a cool fun combo during the game that's actually very good yeah maybe like if you're trying to meme over how many motor wounds you can possibly do yeah but i uh i do think that that seat of alvagar is not bad because there's you're not going to have a huge number of chances probably with your frost lord to do your stompy stompy go over the top and what's better than driving over people driving over people and then roaring after you're in the new position right yes right you can use that second one after that movement so yeah that's the choice if you don't know about the core book right or i kind of like 2d3 immortals stomp and then uh and then rampage oh sure sure if you're just stomp like titanic duel like you could do the the the titanic duel and get yourself bonuses against another monster right yeah it's just hard to ever say no to roar but yes it's options more to ones to taste sometimes your opponent has run out of command points and then perfectly legitimate absolutely or sometimes you might be in a couple fights and you actually need to roar somewhere else like you do have a lot of monsters you often have multiple chances at roar so if you're trying to satisfy your battle tactics right and you need every single ogre keyword in combat on the same turn you might be roaring you might be using a up your roar somebody else somewhere else i mean uh all right uh so stock spell doors okay so we got can i before we go in can i make just a general observation yeah can we can we drop the balloons on the fact that we only have one cast on seven everything else is six or lower yeah there used to be sevens across the board right like like we did it victory achieved like they can actually cast spells again five six six seven yes right and when your budgers are not standing next to within one inch of the maw pot when they have played the game and moved up they can they still have a pretty good chance of succeeding at those spells right and i will say my favorite spell is the lowest casting value so i don't know what's up with that but hey there we are the most powerful one by far and it's not even remotely close is the easiest one to cast yeah but and it's not because it's the easiest one to cast as usual gw continues to be very bad at setting casting value for spells no one is surprised but that's okay all right let's talk about these four spells we can just do all four of these real quick yeah yeah yeah blood feast cast on seven range of 18 if successfully cast you pick a friendly ogre unit it's not a monster stop trying to have fun uh and that's within range invisible and you get to add one to the attacks characteristic of that unit's melee weapons okay that's a powerful spell like that deserves to be on a seven obvious like we've talked about iron guts and buttons both of whom are good both of whom can benefit from this both of whom if you're their opponent you do not want this spell to go off on that those units because it's a bad day for you like it's a super powerful buff it's a shame it can go on monsters i don't know why bcr is not allowed to have fun but it's still a great spell or you've turned it targeted your rhinoxes who are not yet monsters sure and then you turn them into monsters and then you cast molten end trails on them yeah yeah yeah get all for all the for the max memes right yep the lever grub stench uh casting value of five and a range of 18 if successfully cast to the starting next hero phase while they're wholly within range of the caster friendly rhinox units are treated as monsters for the purposes of trampling charge contesting objectives and carrying out monsters rampages the obvious it's amazing all the three things you want to be monsters for that's big and your obvious target for this is your shooty shooty cannon chariot like yeah that's yeah that's what you're putting this on every cannon within range not just you don't you don't need to pick one it's all right all of them become monsters yes yep suddenly you have a whole bunch of boys standing around counting as 10 charging in doing a ton of mortal wounds after they shot at people and everybody's rampaging just rampaging everywhere uh so and the objective you just charged has 40 models on it now right right that's real good that's really very good i read blood feast and i'm like this is a very strong force multi-line buff when you're adding extra attacks the dudes with multi-damage weapons you get an extra value on it i'm a red blubber glove uh oh okay yeah i would show okay yes uh molten end trails uh casting value of six and a range of 18 inches you get to pick one friendly ogre mottribe's monster yeah so that doesn't actually qualify only within range they're treating you right yeah my blood yeah but true but until the next year phase add one to the damage characteristic of melee weapons used by that monsters mount so which is obviously where a lot of the damage lives anyways plus one to damage on your already high damage mount that already often will gain bonuses to damage when charging anyways so now you have more damage on more damage stacks on stacks uh is good turns out going to like damage four or five actually good yeah weird mm-hmm that's a good one and then greasy deluge you it's neg wanted to hit on a unit that's yeah with a pretty decent range actually yeah um it's not a bad spell i don't have anything bad to say about it no someone might take it sometimes as their second or maybe third spell uh it's it's useful no complaints uh in my estimation we went four for four here on like yeah reasonable choices these are all good spells they all have valid lists they fit in they all do something yeah who knew you would open up the ogre destruction book and the spell lore would be great yeah yeah like this has a higher hit rate than most of the magic books we've looked at yeah yeah uh all right laura the sun eater for your fire belly uh i mean the important part here to discuss is billowing ash like he has a couple of damage spells they do damage in different ways that's fine like they're not bad or anything that they are what they are but billowing ash now has a casting value of six and a range of 12 and until the start of your next year phase of track one from hit rolls for attacks that target friendly units while they're wholly within range of the caster um so the casting value went down neck one big big aura of neg one to be hit it's great yeah good spell you really you really might take a fire belly sometime right and billowing ash is a highly decent spell don't don't alpha strike me bro i guess as long as you get a turn first yeah not federal so like actually legitimately putting a massive bubble of neg one to hit is uh it turns out solid so there we go okay uh as we all know when you want magic you come to the ogres for they have the best spells hey we're open for business and neat magic is back on the menu you know i think what's you know why i think the ogre lore lores in general are pretty good and why they work because they kept okay look at like zinger luminath they're trying to do too much complicated crap because top down the way they design stuff they're the high magic armies right so they have to be doing like wacky weird like the more words we put here and the more complicated we make the effect the more magical it is you get what i'm saying yeah right like if you read a spell it's true in like dnd as well right you read a spell and it has like half a page of text you're like oh this is a this is a real spell it's this is serious magic right oh polymorph okay that's a whole page all right yeah like this is real magic this is something that they that has like oh interesting power to it but what but like fire balls fireball for a reason or whatever you know what i mean or like like they with this they were like oh we need simple magic so we'll just make it rock solid foundational simple buffs yeah and utility and it's like yeah that's actually what makes magic good you have my attention good old rock nothing beats rock yeah oh i should mention that there used to be a spell which was our best spell before called rib cracker and it gave us fire actually was a debuff 18 inch range target enemy unit has minus one to its armor saves sort of like technically giving us a rend for anybody dog piling that unit and you might think oh man it sucks they took our best spell away not really well for gut busters they just transferred it you get it for free now yeah free automatically on on your lens most of your most of your gut buster units that you want to play with just magically attained plus one rendered so it's sort of like you get a free rib cracker on all your guys every turn just think about it that way uh for the people playing rib cracker and bcr uh get wrecked idiots but hey um i guess you could play them all in men trails or something that's still good it's so good you're you're not going to be hurting for damage on you on like your frost sword it's cool he can he can sell his own he will not yeah that guy still still does a lot of work uh he in my game i kind of like had to i had to bait him out so yeah because obviously i couldn't just let him get into my into most of my army so i was like well sorry unit of chaos knights you you know you get to be sacrificed and they were they went out they killed something and then just like he charged them and just his first attack profile lifted the entire unit of knights sometimes chaos chosen but that's not your unit name you were chosen to take the hit prayers uh we mentioned him a little bit earlier but we'll talk about him here quickly you've got pulverizing hail storm which is a like pick a point on the battlefield and then do some mortal wounds to everybody around that perfectly reasonable it's only a three inch bubble so you're maybe getting like two maybe three units in the in the perfect situation but it is a two up for d three mortals so honestly by the terms of prayers not bad longer range than most damage hers too oh sorry you're good it's uh it's kind of like a weapon it hits on threes and wounds on twos just got it that way yep exactly uh it's just an 18 inch range attack that hits on threes and wounds on twos and you can't move when you use it yes um keening gale is i think the one that a lot of people will end up utilizing uh fairly often if they're not utilizing the ones on scroll which by the way there are actually some good prayers on the scroll when we get there even yeah yeah yeah it's it's actually shot like the the the the thunder tusk priests have uh or the I should say the huskard priests I'm sorry have like two prayers and yeah they're actually good but here you can pick a monster or mournfang pack and give them plus three inches to their move I agree with you sometimes that will be unnecessary I think it's more interesting for mournfang than it is for your monsters who are already like blindingly fast most of the time you just get wherever you want to go as a as the the monster trucks but I think the mournfang actually the three inches does make a big deal to their overall uh offensive threat so it's not a bad prayer yeah it's it's also one of those good late game prayers where it's turned for everybody's super wounded you're looking at your damage chart and you're moving at like six or something and it's a it's a nice utility help me out here keening gale to get to an objective or something like that um or it's one of those I have a plan and I'm trying to play six mournfang and run and charge them as an alpha strike and I think that's going to work or something like that I don't know if it will work but and then there's call the blizzard which features the eddies and you don't play those so okay and yeah there's yeah call the blizzards like we just skip that might as well just be have some lorm tax like okay cool next um let's talk about mount traits obviously you get one normally on your stone your stone whore thunder tusk you can get three and uh boulder head whatever thunder boulder whatever the monster one is absolutely correct boulder head was right there we go got it got it in one they all sound right to me uh in in the meat blood thunder boulder sub faction you get what you get three um so the the fascinating thing about mount traits to me is that they went 66 percent on both of these for things I would ever think about taking okay yeah yeah uh so metal cruncher is still metal cruncher except four plus save disappeared and now it's only three up two up or one yeah okay yeah which is a difference in how it will perform it didn't perform any different against me when I went into him with my all three up slaves army like everybody in the army was a three up save I'm like yay I have a three up save now and he's like I'm pretty excited about it too well I mean it's just metal cruncher scales with the privilege of your opponents rules I guess uh so yeah it's still good like it still certainly does work against hard to two damaged opponents I want to know what one up units out there are floating around but that's what I want to know it was fine yeah but still I'm finally we get the still again the come up and see deserves I guess yep that's the only one up save I can think of actually in the whole game there might be one more there is one more um no don't remember but there is one more but yes but still down to the ones that actually anybody uses cool um why isn't the steam tank a one up save that's like you want to talk about that city's a sigmar journey next uh next time steam tank one up save steam tanks used to have a one up save by the way that was a thing really okay yeah they were the unit with a one up save because you were driving a steel tank onto a battlefield full of dudes with swords and glances and stuff yeah and like chain mail and stuff yeah it makes sense okay yeah anyways uh and then the other one you're going to take the actual one you're going to take first every time uh you're going to take it on your frost lower on stone horn and it is going to be so good as that is rock main elder uh subtract one from wound rolls for attacks that target this unit attacks not melee attacks not just melee this is the one you take first sorry metal cruncher but um a huge percentage of all the units in the entire game just became not crunchable so i'm taking rock main elder it's awesome it makes the stone horn even more preposterously durable um hey i mean the these are expensive monsters when one dies that's a big chunkier army you know what if it didn't die what about that and then what if it was a priest and it healed itself on your turn uh heroic recovery and you have to do them off on anyway seems pretty good if you're taking two stone like frost lords then you take metal cruncher and you're pretty happy about it it's just a target priority issue you just send them after the heroes no big deal if you're taking three you're not you're just not because belligerent charger um i've i became belligerent when i first read it actually because it doesn't do anything nope it's terrible it just doesn't do anything uh but you know points went up so it's hard to fit three monsters into a list anyway i'm not sweating uh and then over on the thunder tusk side uh you have this unit has a ward of five up uh in in rye cross on the winner if that one yep so if you want your thunder tusk to actually feel a little more stone horny if you're missing that five up ward save well hey guess what it's back baby yeah you know how you make magic decks and they're tribal you get tribal goblins tribal elves well i like to build eight of sigma armies that are tribal five up ward yep just everything's got a five up ward i like that but i don't want to look gross like nergon so here we are and uh and then the other one that's actually not bad like in most accounts this would be a perfectly valid mount traitors don't think you'll ever get to it but i do want to shout it out as being not bad and that's matriarch which is add one to charge rolls for friendly thunder tusk units holy within 12 of this this unit i suppose if you're like the thunder tusk guy who wants to run all thunder tusks a model that isn't really prone to charging into combat but you really want to do that yeah plus one of charge is good so you're playing a list called beyond the thunder tusk mad max and uh hey i guess you're gonna charge all them now that could be cool uh spoiler or not though so right if thunder tusk were different like in a different timeline in marvel where thunder tusks were like a monster that could perform damage in melee totally see taking this absolutely yeah uh and yeah i mean flesh greed the problem with it is you have to actually be eating at the start at the start of the hero phase now there's each hero phase which is cool um yeah you have to actually be eating and your frost lord shouldn't really be in combat at the start of the hero phase because whatever they thought should have been dead well it is a sorry not your frost lord yeah your frost lord on on thunder tusk you can still take that yeah so okay uh oh i have that in there twice whoops there we go all right let's talk about them tribes sub factions anytime stamp this one real quick let's talk about the glow up on almost everyone yes let's talk about let's talk about winning okay talk about winning you will be sick of winning you won't even like it anymore after this meat fist plus one sorry add one to each role made for the trampling charge battle from trait by friendly meat fist gut buster units so take that five up makes it a four up that doesn't apply to the monsters but don't worry there is one exception where you can get to a three up which we will get to in the list building phase okay good i was about to say yep we'll save that we're teasing that for later yeah there's a combo fantastic good awesome like if you're mr gut buster and you want to just run like big packs of gluttons and just murderize everybody you charge into yep this is a pretty good way to do it this is actually a good tribe i understand that iron blasters are whatever one will play and under guts is whatever one will play but meat fist my tribe is a good tribe yeah if you like msu iron guts lead belchers glutton new stuff like that it's fantastic this thing could have been trash like it was in the last book but they decided to make it fun and good uh great work yeah also in the lore it's the most powerful tribe and so it was kind of uh it felt weird that it was the worst tribe but good work fix the problem i'm all in uh blood gullet much like it used to be like it's still it retained basically its functionality from what it had before which is friendly blood gullet butchers know one extra spell from the lore of gut magic and in addition each blood gullet butcher can attempt to cast one extra spell in your hero phase so if you want to capitalize on what is legitimately a good spell lore yeah here you are there you go we still have a minor problem of you needing to stand uncomfortably close to the pot to get your casting bonus but but uh but you can you can cast more spells and casting more spells is generally good when your lore is actually full of good spells you wanted to cast so great uh under guts i agree this will be the popular one out of the gate like this amongst by the way these are all good so far there's no losers i think we yeah what it's just great it's just wonderful to see you see book after book of sub factions and you look at the three choices you get and you're like well this is the one that does something and these are the two that do nothing right well not so with this book all three good and fun yeah there's a clear winner but all three are good and fun it's all i want under guts improve the rend characteristic of missile weapons used by friendly under guts lead belchers and under guts iron blasters units by one who so your lead belchers become rend two but most importantly your iron blaster becomes rend three and possibly more important than that the iron blaster super shotgun from doom 2 hell on earth becomes rend two with 10 attacks yes it does yes it does uh you're gonna see a fair amount of of them the iron blasters moving around they're back which yeah there was there were many times in the history of ogres by the way since their launch uh this is another thing hey well where those iron blasters were just the worst nightmare you could ever see on the table okay and sort of that in fantasy where they're like these things were so good in fantasy blah blah i'm like oh word okay it kind of went up and down over time since the kids like it had to do with how good artillery was at that moment what the rules were for how cannons worked but in in eighth edition the way you it's so hilarious i'll explain this real quick some okay not all of our people might know in early war hammer the way a cannon worked was you you you looked at your cannon and then you looked across the table okay and you said all right i'm gonna target my cannon 32 inches and then you would then after you had dictated all of your artillery's ranges like that you would then get out of tape measure and measure out 32 inches you'd set down a little die or something on that point on the battlefield that you would just like had to eyeball eyeball then you would roll your little artillery dice which could be which showed two four six eight ten and misfire okay and then you would add that to the initial shot okay and then you would roll it again and that's how far it bounced and everything between that the call plus the first roll and the distance the second roll gets hit by the cannibal so the answer is six inches off the back of the unit well no no because you couldn't do that that wasn't that wasn't how it worked you had to nominate a distance originally okay sure then later they changed it so you didn't have to guess once they introduced pre-measuring you're allowed to measure everything so now all that mattered was the dice roll so you everybody would just say ten from the back or ten from the back ten from the back that's the that's the call just ten from the back and so cannons were heat seeking laser guided missiles because unless you rolled the one they were going into the unit right and just plowing through people with these things so so iron blasters were just awful because they were like the strongest cannons so you could just just target these laser cannons at people and just akira down anything you wanted right so there you go also there's your uh you're gonna be seeing a lot of complaints online about iron blasters i declare and you'll be seeing a lot of people poking fun at ogre players suddenly becoming fans of iron blasters oh i'm trying to say they've always been a fan of iron blasters let me tell you something about the ogre community they really were always a fan of iron blasters they just absolutely it's not a meme this time they probably on them already it's fine i agreed okay boulderhead add two to the wounds characteristic of your stone horns and thunder tusks not one but two uh they also got a wound bump on scroll uh in some cases so yeah 17 wounds in this sub faction yeah that's a lot on a on a three up five up possibly minus one to get wounded yes a lot yep uh and then you can also pick three of your stone horns or thunder tusks to have mount traits instead of one so if you like all monster trucks this is your home congratulations you found it mm-hmm thunder bellies is all of your mournfang can run and still charge i think mournfang are like good now might might be my pre read on them i don't think they're great i think there are better units but they're good they're they're functional i think they can have a place in the army and giving all of them run and charge is actually i think really really really good um because they're they're not quite fast enough on scroll but when they can all add a d6 to their movement uh they become the right speed like pretty instantaneously so cool yeah this is a good touch up a little tune up from the last one where you could run and charge as long as you started that charge within six of a board edge you can't believe no one took that but shocking we fixed it weird and you're not not missing out on too much uh yeah you can run in charge you get you have to give up your shoot right because you're running but it's a single shot it's on fours there's no opportunity cost it's fine exactly uh i kind of wish they had just killed out their ranged thing i mean i know they come with the pistols and stuff i kind of wish they had just gotten rid of that as a as a thing and made them a little bit more offensive but it's fine like it doesn't really matter it's just it's just an extra profile for people to forget so it's cool okay and then finally winter bite subtract one from hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons that target friendly winter bite units holy within your territory in addition your frost sabers ice brow hunter and yetis are not visible to enemy models more than 12 inches away not visible not just can't be targeted by ranged attacks but simply not visible um so the weakest one and still but that's actually mostly because of the underlying substructure of this relies on hunters yetis and and frost sabers which are all kind of like whatever uh but it's still not bad i could see people playing this in their local where everybody at the local store plays shooting armies and the person it's made them go a little crazy and they're just like i have had enough i'm taking i'm not i'm not playing any frost sabers or yetis i'm just playing gut busters but by gum i'm taking winter bite and i'll be a minus one to hit and minus one the wounded shooting and i'm taking more and faying and um that's for them i guess so yeah sure it's the weakest of the six that i think like in interest wise but still in my mind five out of six of these nailed it they open up interesting play options they're all they're fun they do what you think they should do they're great and and not all of them by the way dictate like all your unit choices they don't build your whole army for you i mean some are more heavy than others uh i didn't list anywhere here by the way what battle line he's opened up because weirdly none of them do yeah it's still the old has to be the general thing which is uh very annoying endless building i gotta say yeah it's so weird that we've seen the you know different crossways to become battle line in most of the recent tomes and these guys just stuck with like the 2.0 way to add battle line just purely through general so right i don't know here we are okay uh matched play grand strategies and battle tactics the thing i like talking about the least uh out of this whole stupid uh this is my least favorite part of 3.0 tomes okay gotta say same uh hey woe you talked about all of these so here's what we're going to do are any of these worth it i'm throwing to you on this grand strategies start with the grand strategies then we'll do battle tactics are any of these worth taking over the default ones no um maybe saga the monster hunter if you think your frostwood is going to live for the whole game your opponent is probably going to be playing in such a way so that he eventually he's very durable he will eventually die if your opponent has no monster you just straight lose these points they disappear into thin air the other ones are really extremely hard or bizarre to play again just then have actually work um enough grub for all requires the maw pot to refill and they didn't change the maw pot at all so it's still right it's still your opponent can just decide not to ever fight near the maw pot and i tend to play against opponents who are like yeah i guess i'm just not going to take any casualties within six of that thing because then it would refill and so it just doesn't uh and it's i like grand strategy and battle tactics where it's like the things you're doing are responsible for whether or not it succeeds not like well if your opponent plays around this it doesn't work okay so yeah grand strategies never good very hard to do take a default one for battle tactics uh they're they're on theme the theme is on point every one of these is like you are all in you're pushing the chips to the center of the table and they want you to do that according to these and they're split between the different ways you could be playing ogres it's not just like all these are free anything you're doing you just kind of get these they're like okay this is the one where if you're playing a bunch of monsters and this is the one if you're playing you know yetis and stuff like that um so this is the one if you're playing in meat fist probably for avalanche of flesh uh one of them requires that every single ogre keyword in your whole army is is in combat um and it notice that um it triggers at the start to the combat not the end of the turn like they usually do so it's possible but uh that's hard almost impossible early on unless the game is going in a very weird direction but it becomes more doable as the game goes on because you're a very elite army um if you're in guts your durability is not particularly great it's just your damage was literally doubled uh which is fun but so eventually you're just gonna not have many guys left and so at some point they're just all gonna be in combat because you only have five left so you'll get that one and then savor the taste everybody has to um at the end of the turn not be in combat they have to be hungry so to call back to those allegiance abilities which is what i like to see and you'll eventually get this one too you can't do it in the first battle around obli obviously because then it wouldn't just be figuratively auto it would be literally auto right but um this one also works if you plan on entering combat okay maybe i'm just gonna enter one combat this turn but i really plan on killing that thing and then if you do hey you get that so we have we have two that are pretty doable one that's pretty durable if you're playing a bunch of monsters or in meat fist which is the 10 mortal wounds and the the other ones are like i mean i'm reminded of the fire slayers thing where one of them is to kill somebody with a stupid throwing axe yes the everwinter one yes you complete the battle tactic if you destroyed an enemy hero or monster with wounds caused by grasp of the everwinter battle trait which is the thing that generally at best has a 50 50 chance of working and then does it do three more to wounds i mean this is the planets are aligning on a tuesday if your opponent's name is jim kind of stuff uh no thanks yeesh and let them loose is pretty easy if you're playing a bunch of monsters obviously but you do have to you know get them all in there which is what you want to do anyway so no big deal uh and then roll their bones this is weird because the battle tactic is the same as the grand strategy both of them are just refill the mop pod right and this is so hard to do that they're both not something that you are really ever gonna choose to do uh roll the bones is better because you could be looking at a situation where that's just going to happen and then you choose it so roll the bones isn't that bad because eventually you'll get in a situation where that's going to happen so then you'll choose that one no no love lost there the grand strat definitely not so do we have the ones that everybody complains about or automatic for sure no um are they good choices when they come up and a few of them are going to happen generally yeah so all right i don't like this part of the game yeah exactly um i hope i hope they're gone in fourth edition uh we all do or at least relegated to a particular battle pack or something like that which is correct uh but shout out to lord lord vlad who said the mop pod filling one should be done in a two on two battle with an sob two mate who can suplex something to within six inches of it and then you all kill it like if he he body slams it believe yes there it is that's how you do it uh you're thinking with portals that's right that's right okay uh let's talk war scrolls we're not going to talk cragnos because i haven't i never talked cragnos in these books they reprint them in everyone he's cragnos he's still cragnos if you liked cragnos before you'll like him now but he's cragnos oh what if you didn't like cragnos before but you're suspiciously changing your mind right now also fine is that okay that's also fine all right but he's still cragnos we've reviewed the war scroll before asking for a friend sure all right the tyrant first of all why is this foot here yes why is this foot hero an entire page this is so much text for a foot hero with so much of this text doesn't need to be here okay you pick a big name we talked about it originally i'm not going to read through all the big names because so many of them are just dumb and like you're never going to take them it's just there's such obvious winners here so this could have been one of those they cut things in half and give you three options sort of things that i wouldn't explain about as long as they kept the three good ones for sure yeah of course which is a which of course they're but but what they would do is keep long stride or giant breaker and wall crusher that's what would happen no they would keep death cheater and then the two worst ones is what they would keep good point okay look if you're just taking one chances are you're going to take death cheater because the word of five up is probably worth more than the save characteristic of three up yep if you take the command trait to get the second one then your obvious choice is to take both fate seeker and death cheater and now this little lunatic this little hundred and fifty point lunatic hero is on a three up five up which is like really tough and can still get lookouts there right yeah he's still capable of getting a lookouts sir uh it's it's really strong um what i hate about this guy is that i hate the way that the bee skewer glaive and the thunder mace still have completely goofy triggered rules that are like very non-intuitive different and very hard to remember i made the same exact complaint with the light of authoritarian yes sure sure but they're all in the same numbers at least not rend and damage but the hit and wound that helps right no right no it doesn't they have different numbers of attacks different rend different damage and different triggers okay because the the glaive is if you the unmodified hit roll is a six against a hero or monster it doesn't matter all of it is sixes at least you know if you hit on a six it's special something special happened now i gotta go look at this ridiculous page of text to find it right like it could have just been like here we go here's another rule you're ready you're ready for this tom uh tyrants crushing blows okay any melee attack i'm modified melee attack i don't care of six to hit causes one mortal wound in addition to other than just normal damage ta-da weird what why would that have been hard well and the best part about it is is things like the bee skewer glaive that goes to like d six damage instead of d three like i think i'd rather just have one mortal sure yeah actually yes i would rather have that at least they have one range now they used to have two different ranges as well and which was even more annoying yeah so they got that good shout out the steward cuts foot of the chat for pointing that one out yeah they do have the same range now at least the other fun one that will factor by the way of the of the names so now that we've got the complaint out of the way the bully of the first degree isn't a command ability anymore it's just a thing now that happens where if you're within if he's within three inches of other ogre maltribe's unit he can make it so only one one dude flees so yeah okay cool yeah it was kind of whatever before it's kind of whatever now right fine he's fine this guy he doesn't actually do that great of damage actually yeah because he's a melee foot assassin which is just a bad job to have an aos generally almost systematically it is the second worst thing you can be in the game at least he's not on 10 wounds he's not on 10 wounds true so you can put him in battalions and in gut busters you get to play with battalions which is nice um he can be my heart he can be uh because he's dual wielding he can uh look out sir yeah he can get look out good yeah because he's dual wielding like taking one of his combat artifacts is actually not the coolest um he doesn't have a job really well okay he does have a job his job is the white knuckle grip holding on to that trophy rack and not letting go that's his job it's the it's that cartoon meme where the robot is like what is my purpose your purpose is to hold the trophy rack nothing else which like it's nice that is B skewer glaive like can be effective against those heroes and monsters from the trophy rack right yeah like those are only plus one to hit so like it already incentivizes him to go out and hunt heroes and monsters but yeah and trophy rack is an important artifact in what you're doing with iron blasters and stuff and you don't want him to get shot in the brain so three up five up holding onto that artifact is quite a bit more safe than being greedy and like just playing a butcher and hoping nobody even looks at him the wrong way with that five up you know so sure that's his that's his job if you want a trophy rack in your army and you want it to be a very durable trophy rack you play a tyrant um if you don't you don't because he's not really for anything else yeah i mean i you could maybe make an argument that his other role if you if you build him with a three up five up is as a pinning unit because he's he is durable enough to go pin units and just hold down like most units if he's fighting on the corner he is just a single dude on like a 50 60 something like that yeah i'm just in like a unit of five cavalry just like right on the corner and probably just stand there not dying to them right right will they retreat until they choose to get away from him so yeah so if you don't want him to be the the sort of trophy rack holder i think he can still have a purpose because he can sort of just get into fights with much larger units and oftentimes just stand there and hold them so they don't get to charge what they want um like pinning units are a thing i i like cheap pinning heroes and at 150 in this army that's actually he's he's a little bit more expensive than i like my pinners to be but he's not like crazy more he's he's move eight that's yeah highly decent to he can get there yeah also you can meme with him if you're in meat fist on brawler guts so that his impact hits are on a three up and maybe put a crag nose perhaps in the army for that 3d6 and you know you can you can meme with him if you would like so that's a suppose a phantom third option he is very memeable and i love that he's the guy who can get the three up mortal wounds on the charge so yeah he's like he's crag noses little buddy little buddy film is coming back i guess i guess that reference is gonna happen more than once okay uh all right let's keep moving the slaughter master seven wounds five up blah blah blah still that still has his goofy attacks with his like little stump blade hands still has only one spell he's still a single caster yeah but i mean again he can be a double caster in blood billet um still in the running for the worst model in a os uh yeah leave he's up there he's up there where they all those layers he's real bad like this model is so bad i don't know what happened to this guy it looks like they made a mold and then it kind of melted and then they went yeah let's just keep making him exactly i was just about to say it looks like they made a bad skull they made a bad looking guy out of fine cast and then put him in the microwave for exactly 25 seconds yes i think that's exactly correct uh he still has his slot machine from the the stuff he carries behind him let us use it's uh look look look this is destruction it's slot machine time okay obviously and you're still rolling for the three four that's what you want yeah and the highest roll the highest roll is so bad yes that they make the five six the bad one still you're you're sad to roll high yeah just move spine marrow to the five six so you feel good when you roll high on the dice like just do it what are we doing here um if i was in the development team i would have said okay can we change this and they would have been like no and i would have said well at least switch spine marrow and bone crushers so people feel good about rolling a five or six and then they're like what do you mean it's the best one and then you need to have a conversation right about four small pliers again okay and then he still does his little potential healer hurt himself when he cast spells and okay does nothing but okay and he has rock chomper which is a spell that is not very good so no cast a gut magic lore spell those are good some people may choose a slaughter master because they're just going to roll that 33 that one in three for the plus one the wound and then maybe sometimes a heal with the dragoff guts you have like a you know you got a four up chance to get some sort of use so buff and then a 50 chance of getting nothing of and he can cast the lures the lures are good so it's it's possible someone still playing this guy as their second wizard something like that he's not yeah he's not terrible he's just annoying like as a utility wizard for 135 he's not like that's not a terrible price point for this right i will point out i mean like a seven wound wizard that started at like 165 or 170 or something like in in the olden days so yeah this is a better cost for sure yes uh oh come on marcus he's definitely ale guzzler tier he definitely is have you seen this little close-up look at it in person now i'm not saying he's worse than the ale guzzler that's not the i'm saying he's in the tier we could we get a conversation yes yes okay the butcher also 135 uh also a bad model but not as bad so hey that we got that going for us still a single cast wizard uh still has the maw which is a funny you know fun like the classic destruction sort of spell this is the type of destruction randomness that is fun it's not that i don't like randomness i just like fun randomness random movement characteristic not fun right uh roll on a table and some random thing happens not fun uh spell that does damage and you play roulette for a little while and oh wow what if i roll a six every time there we go we hit it yep yep and yeah i mean you're taking this dude because you want to cast the lower spells that's yeah and on the off chance of the hail mary and nfl blitz you might cast versus maw once or twice a game and be like well hey uh if i roll hot this thing's dead that'd be sweet and and once in a while that will happen and it will be memorable you'll be like i took this monster from 15 words today because i couldn't stop rolling a four up and it's gonna be great i can't stop succeeding yeah uh our new hero the not speaking of not speaking of can't stop succeeding here we have blood pelt hunter go on yes indeed at 140 points for this new boy eight wounds five up save eight bravery i really thought they talked this guy up in the article they were like uh this dude's gonna be like a real sweet monster hunter no right now it's like okay there was no way i i knew they couldn't do it i'm like i guarantee you that this guy will not be good at killing monsters guaranteed i knew it so he's a range dude he wants to be range now let's talk about him he's not visible to enemy units while he's in cover cool ability okay cool actually yeah good ability like again he's a big eight wound hero but he can still easily get into cover he's on a small base like again he's not on a very big base he's on a pretty easy to walk into cover somewhere neat at the end of your opponent's movement phase if this unit is more than nine inches from all enemy units it can make a normal move okay good ability cool good ability not great because if they get close they can turn it off because he has to be farther away but he can kind of stalk around outside it's needability like they have to commit to him right yeah because if they don't get if they don't get within nine he's just gonna leave he's just gonna walk away and he has a movement of eight if he's not within nine correct right yep okay he has a movement of eight if he's not within three yeah so i mean he's like a little he's like a hunter in world warcraft he's just kiting you he's running he's always 16 18 away just shooting which is uh feels like it would be an interesting mechanic it's like they designed this guy for like a 600 point game in a sense sure he would be like really useful and interesting in that size game but when it gets to 2k i'm just taking an iron blaster probably right they're like not dog this guy by the way that was my strategy of how my shadow where he worked in war just literally run around in circles and shoot behind me for hours i used to like solo world bosses just by if all i got to find was a world boss that didn't all the world bosses that didn't have ranged attacks i could because i was just slightly as as fast or slightly faster or as fast as we had a scaring arrow that you'd slow them down and so i would just sit there for like three four hours and kill up what's supposed to be a raid boss okay so uh let's talk about these ranged attacks man this is what this guy's lived this is his life right he's the he's the super cool hunter he's done it before he has the trophies somehow they're right on his belt they wouldn't lie through the model 18 inch range out of his crossbow so six inches longer than the normal hunter's crossbow upgrade two attacks on fours and threes neg one d three damage and then a spear attack at 12 inches one attack fours and twos neg two d six damage if you're targeting a monster the damage characteristic of the crossbow goes to three and the impaling spear goes to six now i will state there's a command trait we didn't talk about earlier or whatever i think it's mandatory yeah that that you can take for this guy it is a commentary right now in artifact it doesn't matter there's a thing you can take for this guy yeah that puts him on twos to hit it is a trait yeah excellent so you've got to make this idiot your general awesome lovely okay so but it puts him on twos to hit so now he's twos and threes neg one like let's let's construe the best case scenario right this guy is targeting a monster so he's now he's he is your general he's got out there he's doing his hunting he has to be within 12 inches because he wants his full attacks right he's in the perfect pocket between 12 and 9 where he could still like potentially move away or whatever he makes all his attacks twos and threes neg one d three on two attacks twos and twos neg two d six or six damage and three damage first now let's just say against the average monster those all hit and all wound and they fail all saves and the monster doesn't have a word okay like i'm just okay we're just we're just running this to the max best universe yeah right he has not killed most monsters of value because most monsters of value are 14 wins now and he has done 12 damage yeah that's it because he needed to charge and do impact mortals like that's what he had he has to finish them off but he's gonna go in charge i'm sure he's got a field dress on you know okay yeah yeah he has to go that's just that's the last thing so so yeah that's terrible so can i acknowledge though that like so i've been thinking about this nine move thing so you can reliably keep folks out probably what six inches from you oftentimes just with an eight movement like unless they're a super high movement right like you can you can set up and in spaces to be like six you know four to six you know like it's hard for people to get up on you that quickly unless they're like have or you know it's like that right like they're most people aren't going to be up against you if you're positioning accordingly right well realistically this check comes after redeploy so there may be very real universes where this guy redeploys like let's say you move to get this guy within nine okay let's say that you get him at that uh at like seven inches if he redeploys um anything like if he a two or more i guess he has to hit three at that point yeah then he's going to move an additional eight then at the end of the phase sure so like he may actually be really hard to catch with a redeploy like so a smart player playing him well he's going to be really hard to pin down now it's not going to matter because he's not going to do anything right but he's going to be real hard to actually catch yeah the only interesting thing about him to me and and this was said by who said this in the comment james he is he counts he he's a count as five that can move onto an objective on your on your opponent's turn i agree that's actually the play with him i also thought that there could be an interesting mean play where like your two main heroes are like frost lord and something else okay and then you just have like four of these idiots right yeah okay just squiggling all over the place yeah and just like yeah they're all just like they're all just very hard to pin down and all shooting at them at like monsters and stuff like that and when you mass that many of them all shooting now given most of these guys would be on fours right which is going to be that which is the unfortunate part about it okay right um but you might actually have advocacy because like let's say you're hold on let's say your play here let me get through this i don't i i i haven't done points on this army but let me i'm gonna construe the army ready it's uh frost on stone horn because it's always that first and a tyrant okay the tyrant's got the trophy rack yes he does that's what i was just and then there are four of these floating in his 12 inch cloud yeah okay and so now they're on like threes and threes or threes and twos the trophy rack is melee no oh is it only melee no it's not has been loaded i thought yeah i thought i was shooting i can't roll for attacks made by friendly gut buster units holy within oh you're right yeah yeah why did i even think it was melee because they used that in iron bluster iron bluster list and this guy is a gut buster hero actually going insane i knew this all right you're okay so i think that like four of them running around pulling these shenanigans benefit like kind of floating around that bubble do you need four or would three be would be would be i just picked four out of the top of my head like assumingly there's iron blasters behind them also doing work because basically you're going for the shooting ogre army right right like that's what's happened here you've you've dedicated to hero slots you're playing hero hammer here yeah you have like pseudo shooting artillery units as your your heroes most your hero slots right right right and then you've got then the then the tyrants kind of in the middle and behind him are the iron blasters and that's like that 12 inch that 24 inch diameter bubble is your like kill zone right where you're just you're just shooting your iron blasters probably just are plenty of range damage at that point and blood pelts are overkill and just extra stuff in that list filling it up maybe maybe but like what about what about four blood piled hunters instead you like your your anti iron blaster you're just no i won't do it four blood piled hunters instead one of the hunters is just carrying the trophy and they all stand next to each other and now you have like super mobile iron blasters that are way worse but kind of cheaper i still think it's a terrible idea but it's a fun meme it's a fun meme yeah i might actually play that list i'll see what it is because i have a bunch of hunters uh like i just i made a bunch of hunters because i thought yeah it's the hunters are fun well our army already has a bunch of hunters than no one yeah exactly between like the war cry stuff and all that like i just have a bunch of hunters because they're fun models and so like i'll just proxy out four blood piled hunters i'll run them all those blood pelts and just like see what happens just see if it's wacky but i think it's more me me but hey there you go all right let's get into the meat of this as it were woe be to the monster that shows up on that sure sure absolutely oh i'm getting me anarchy on uh probably not probably not yeah he's still he's still got like a ridiculous saving through so or save so you know he's just like yeah okay cool i'm sorry how much your damage is on rend one yeah but spears each spear that gets through on neg two rend is six damage that's it's it's great he has a all the time word save now um yeah likey gluttons uh we're back baby we saw this scroll already but boy oh boy is it we're in the the core meat of the army is for real now this is such a good page i love this page yeah this is my favorite page in the book i've always been like my ogre army is mostly gut stuff it's mostly gut busters i just think ogres are cool um like the like the just foot ogre dudes i think look cool obviously you know the most way to paint on you know that's fun yeah like in the most common painting guy i use is larry the ogre obviously has my little to shown up in you know 50 tutorials um i just think ogres are fun so at any rate gluttons are now six for 265 they are battle line base uh if you go for um the club and iron fist you get uh three attacks if you go for the paired clubs you get four attacks the champion has the bonus attack your one in every six models is one of those two things um and obviously you're going to pick the one that makes range attacks into you be neg one to hit or sorry neg one to wound which is like crazy good for defensive if they've got a little look out noblar yep the bravery is fine but again it's not generally as necessary between inspiring presence in the tyrant and other things you could do you're also just bravery eight if you're in combat because of eating right and uh you get one to charge rolls off of your musician which is the exact bonus you always want like i go to the musician i read and i'm like does it say plus one to charge if so i'm in that's that's like that is one of the best rules you can have in a command unit bar none yeah and that's it like there's no other special crap going on they're just trucks that charge in and now in their unit of six base uh they will come in and make 24 attacks on i'm gonna just completely unbuffed there's a unit champ now 25 25 yes sorry 25 attacks on threes and threes neg one two damage and the best part is they don't even need the i'm your battle brother's thing galatian veterans rule because they are now a two-inch reach yes yes so like we did it i don't know like unfurl the banner mission accomplished we got there these guys are good it's great people had two complaints well okay they had a bunch of plays about glutton's before but the first complaint was man these are expensive for how bad their save is and they just die i'm sad and also they don't do any damage and um they fixed the ladder but they fixed it way more than they usually change war scrolls from one book to another um i was expecting two-inch range or rend one or you know they used to have the six extra attack thing but they're just like no two-inch range double the number of attacks they're doing plus one attack per model and including rend one like they they really they really wanted these guys to be doing the damage and i approve good work yeah some people are asking like would you ever take the uh the iron fist no my yeah my honest answer is no i just think the extra tax is worth way more than the partial mortal wounds like the two mortal wounds you get off the save squad is getting six bonus attacks from that that's considerable yep but if you like if you model them with iron fists cool that's paired ogre clubs or blunt blades because what is a blunt blade it's fine that thing on their hand is that thing who cares yeah and yeah obviously these guys receive other buffs like the plus one attack buff and stuff like that very well and there's there's still two different sources of plus one attack that these guys can receive i mean if this unit gets up to like six attacks each i'm just like what is happening here um i complained about the comparison to gluttons in the sun's a bad mucho because the war stomper gargant is he has effectively a glutton's profile like that is to say he's threes and threes and he's neg two rent but he's two damage so it's you know it it neg two renders way better than a one i'm not gonna joke but it's very similar profile but he caps at ten attacks and he's twice as much as this unit and this this unit just base without buffs walks in with 25 just like hey what's up guys we're here uh so yeah if uh if you hit them first they're dead if they hit you you're dead roshambo champions 2022 the entire gut buster half of the book yep uh iron guts i love these guys too they're 270 for four um if you have a gut buster general they become battle line so like tyrant or butcher or whatever uh so again you get a champ uh you get a sander bear um which gives you a silly spell ignore that whatever it's fine it's fine nope but you get a musician that gives you plus one to charge which is what we're all actually here for which is again what's important um iron guts are three attack space threes threes neg two rend three damage um they can they can body um which is fine like okay neat they can body guard but okay it's it's totally lower appropriate you needed something like that because it's what it that's what they are in the stories i just hope it wasn't worth any item budget because you're not going to be doing that yeah and down to the iron guts used to do nothing and now it does something yes and so um you might be like oh man a second pile in but i strike last and now the opponent gets to hit me that's a downside it is a downside but it used to do nothing and now it does something yeah i'm all about the fight but you strike last it's still super potent yeah sometimes that's really gonna matter yeah well especially on a charge with two inch reach guys because you could very easily go into a unit like blow it up right call down to the iron guts if there's an like that unit's exploded there's nothing else actually within three of them they give you position them well yeah but there might be something within four or five you know and so then on the full pile and they can go in there and just chop into a second unit and strike last and and and basically get to fight twice like if they're if you properly set yourself up for when you use that is an extremely potent ability yeah and for anyone wondering some of the math on it if you compare over gluttons to iron guts look at the cost it's very similar within five points of each other their overall durability is about the same number of effective wounds and their damage against most armor types is basically the same even when you start applying buffs onto it they're just pretty they're pretty close to the same unit except over gluttons are more bodies standing places and they have the minus one to get shot when shooting and the iron guts have the double pile in so it's sort of like it's a dealer's choice do you like piling in twice do you like more guys and they they both slap about as hard as each other uh and they both take of about as many hits as each other before they die yep good absolutely uh green blood crusade said question is there any chance of true dwarves again beards and cannons i mean i assume you mean like foot dwarves because because the the like cried and overlords certainly have beards and they do have lots of cannons um on their ships but i i assume you mean more classic like warren or fantasy dwarves um i mean they're all still around they're like they're part of cities of sigmar and i don't think they'll go away like i think the dwarves will remain part of that army i don't know if they'll get new scopes so they'll just rely on the existing ones but i think they'll stay part of the integrated cities it's it's in the lore it's in the world they're there so like your long beards and iron breakers and all that kind of stuff i mean i think that'll just be part of the world and so because they're in cities like my guess is there will be new cannons there's literally a whole city dedicated to gunpowder weapons so i have to imagine that's going to stick around and and be something so the coolest city by the way it is the coolest city uh definitely not by the rules but by like the art and the lore i mean all right man eaters man these guys eat um i don't know how late the show is on but you get the idea yes they're elite they're four wounds of the five up safe they're 170 points for three the math does not work out they do not have the gut buster keyword so they miss out on some potential buffs uh there been there done that is not worth it even if you take run in charge it's still not worth it and the i count has slightly more models when contesting objectives is also not worth it um so yeah they're bad yeah you have six gluttonous for 265 and you have six manators for 340 and they do the same damage so you are paying a lot of extra points for run in charge and you're losing a lot as well you're losing this bonus if you wanted that you're losing um battle line or you're losing a trait nope no thanks yep it's a hard pass it's a shame i love manators like i said i'm glad for the weirdos that can run them as a whole army now but yeah they're not they're not good they're they're not good um gorgers which are ogres uh so are hungry or or eating um that kind of thing uh they're 80 points it's like you take this if you want pop up ambush chaff that's why you took this uh they are the new they're the new king all right i don't like the sculpt i don't like fine cast but i gotta say friendship ended with froth gorn some guy man trapper friendship accepted with gorgers if you want two or four victory points it only costs you 160 points now and that's that's what they're for the only downside is if you're doing that and you're trying to do that one battle tactic and you drop two gorgers in actual no man's land they're probably never gonna enter combat for a long time so that might hurt your battle tactic thing but if you're trying to acquire victory points for cheap if you think that's cheap 160 that's that's the play now because roth gorn went up yep and yeah i mean they're gruesome developers ability is like interesting where they shut off inspiring presence and rally it's everybody's favorite you have to buy so that's that's the problem they have to be exactly high so sure sure a big like though and it you could like put them in and something else that your opponent really wants to well and it doesn't have to be like you could put them into junk you could put them into chaff because that bubble stretches out and they just have to touch any other unit within nine sure with that bubble so like you can maybe possibly do some tricky thing with them but that's like um i'm already play them because of the one thing and now i'm just trying to find something that they can do and that's maybe something that they can do yeah i mean to me ability i think the two of these are worth it because the two battle tactics they insta complete just desecrate their lands and uh barge two enemy lines like in the current season that's why you take those if those two battle tactics stick around it's like worth 160 points to just instantly complete those in your army that the other thing is like a bonus sure if you can organize but i mean there's six moons on a six of safe they will just evaporate if anything of any kind of value swings at them right so i mean we'll compare them to a very similar unit next week in s2d that i think does the inspiring presence or rally command shut off better that's the that's the challenge i think you're taking them for the battle tactics not for the not for the if tyrant had that ability now now we're opening up some reasons to play tyrant besides holding on to a thing but right these guys are probably too fragile for that yeah don't care they're good they're good at what they're supposed to do well maybe not what they're supposed to do but what they're good at yeah i mean they don't do any damage so cool it's just like they're there literally to be annoying chaff pieces and you gotta look at the crypt honker attack profile over there right uh lead belchers 170 for four uh of these guys again still four ones five up save they have their gun d three attacks why is it still d three can we please make it two like just make it two just just do that stop making random attacks please stop it just just two just write the number two what are we doing with this how is this adding any value to the game stop it okay it drives me insane at any rate uh d three attacks each four threes neg one one obviously relevant part here is again these go battle line as gun blaster generals they are another interesting part if you're trying to do like msu sort of meat fist they can be a potential part of that where you're you're just charging all over the place and these can be shooting the real use is obviously within underguts where suddenly they're they're neg two rend and they're your obvious battle line choice for more shooting just for your iron blasters and be chaff for your iron blasters out front um so you know even though they're fours and threes like turns out neg two rend shooting pretty good uh even when it's one damage as those stupid little dwarves uh in city of sigmar have proven for many years now um as they just you know 420 blaze it all day um so yeah and the important part is if they didn't move uh then when they shoot they their gun becomes two d three shots instead of d three um i hate that as a trade off because a os is about movement it's the worst thing you can put on a worse role did you want to not play this game to get your good rules cool have it but also it only works on your turn now it used to work on all turns so you won't get that with unleash hell it's like something you the first time you play you might not notice but they're not that great even in underguts but they do chip damage at 18 and is the cheapest battle line so you're very happy to take them anyway i think yep agreed and they they can still be units the charge or you know a unit that charges in and does more wounds on a five which is fine finish stuff off whatever it may be and uh yeah i don't think you can understate the they're like the cheapest battle line compared to like uh like points to bodies five or something or two 70 each the battle line is very expensive normally in this army yep the iron blaster also known as the reason why you're not taking the blood pelt hunter uh so there are more reasons than that but this is another one sure another one this is the dj g strike up dj call it over here nine wounds four up save has the rinox keyword has the gut busters keyword has the ogre keyword has all the keywords this is artillery that moves nine because it's hungry yep that's a that's a big threat range 39 inch uh huh and it now makes it's got a little split shot um i think this was the unit by the way in warren refaniscy that introduced the split shot oh it's a call back okay piece of history um i believe this was i believe somebody can check me on this but my memory says this was the first unit that they introduced the the grape shot concept on they eventually rolled that out to all the cannons but this was i think the first one anyways yeah so they can do the cannonball or the grape shot they call it hail shot but whatever it doesn't matter uh 30 inch range two attacks four's twos neg two d3 three plus three i am as excited about this as i as the rend and the reach on guns no more d6 damage rejoice for thou hath been saved yeah yeah it's great like thank you we got there we did it that means the worst you can roll is four for damage and if the damage characteristic was just four i would be very pleased with the iron blaster but so the worst outcome uh that could just be the damage and i'd be happy with this great work yeah we did it and then if you're within short range which you very easily or or might want to be because again this thing moves actually quite decently fast hand is tough enough to come back if you start your turn 21 away from your opponent you can do that right yeah and again we talked earlier about how there's a spell to turn this thing into a monster for purposes of capping and charging and monsters rampaging so all of that's good uh it can get plus one to hit from the trophy rack as we mentioned uh which is good for shooting at heroes and monsters obvi because that will put the cannonball on threes and twos or the hail shot on uh twos and threes uh in underguts it is either rent three or rent two and the hail shot like in the in the sort of optimal way that's structured the way you're going to see it the hail shot coming in within 12 again starting they're 21 inches away now suddenly you're there within 12 in the shooting phase they're going to make 10 attacks at you on twos and threes neg two rend two damage that is a very scary profile at 170 points how are you getting the neg two rend on the hail shot uh underguts underguts increase your rend with everything down yeah uh so like yep pretty pretty great for 170 points the shocking part to me is not all of the value you get out of that 170 points the shocking part to me is that we've finally made artillery people will take that that is the amazing thing yeah yeah and the prophecy is complete long ago it was said that gut busters were deadly as ever and now it is true we are gut busters deadlier than ever possibly even deadly at all i i think it is definitely true yeah i mean you're gonna see this thing a lot it's a threat it does work and it's also one of those like obvious best list kind of things that is also what the people would want to play even if it wasn't the best it's one of those so it's one of those fun lists that somebody would build as a meme because they just really like that except it's accidentally great and so you're gonna see it probably even more than you normally might i think i'll say something i think this thing is a little too cheap true like it i i would say over the long term just isn't creep up slightly in points i don't think it's like drastically too cheap no i think it'll creep up 10 or something every update until it lands at 195 or something like that by the end of whatever yeah i was gonna say like the appropriate price for this thing is actually 190 yeah i tacked down a five for actual no reason because it's seems to be how they do it right but like i i just think this thing is actually too efficient at its points right now like i'm excited they get they get a cool shooting weapon but people are gonna freaking hate this people really efficient shooting is it uh it's in the yeah i didn't see the pitch battle is it codified as artillery yes it is yeah okay so you are limited to four per army right sure even four is like very plenty we'll probably we'll probably turn one to fit in a something or whatever as we see the list of all i think yeah very nice okay uh so uh oh nice uh jace every said he just pulled out a sixth edition core rules book all cannons had grape shot did they have a better grape shot maybe they had like a really strong one i don't know trying to remember but thank you thank you jace every i appreciate that the tapes i mean it was the useful grape shot because most of your cannons in the game were like two dudes standing behind a gun in placement at that time and this was like a cannon on a chariot that could race around the battlefield it was a very different experience right also if you're gonna build this uh put a mournfang in there and that's some scuffed rhinox looking this thing is like the honey we have a mournfang at home you know and then it's a rhinox put a put a mournfang in there sure for me for me now let's talk about my favorite artillery in the game okay here we go you thought we were gonna talk about the scrap launcher you were wrong here we go thunder tusk beast riders all right the scrap launcher nine wounds four up safes have an inch move okay does not have the ogre keyword doesn't get the hungry and eating because it does get gut buster though but it does have the gut buster keyword that is true now you're taking this thing for the piles of old scrap i know it's only 145 points though for maximum efficacy you do probably want to have a unit of knob lars around so we'll talk about them in just a moment this thing has a range of six to 36 inches it's an effective threat range of 42 inches right with its with its move factored in as a hell of a range that's the table they could have just like they could have just typed the table outside of six but all right right this thing attacks see below okay let's see below the attacks characteristic of piles of old scrap is equal to the number of models in the target unit to a maximum of tax characteristic of 20 which is fine because no one plays more than 20 models in the unit anyways so cool i wanted to take 60 man oh you can't anymore because uh you can still do 60 zombies and 60 clan rats those are the only exceptions yes all right well 40 i wanted 40 one we settle for 30 so this thing makes realistically depending on how the the season shakes out like if we get to a season where you actually see hordes okay yeah uh i think this thing's actually got some game in it let me just say that i think you will put some shame in your game it's got rend one it does have rend one so its base profile is 20 attacks if you're shooting at a unit 20 which is what i'm sort of construing here right mm on fours and threes neg one one damage however if you've got a noblar unit sitting around it okay which come in packs of 20 you roll 2d6 and if you get less than the number of models in the novel or unit which you will unless somebody attacked your noblars in which case you have zero noblars because you either have all 20 or zero those the only two settings that they exist in yeah then you get plus one to hit so it goes to threes and threes okay uh wonderful i love it uh it's fantastic truly my only sadness about it is it would be so much more fun if this thing got the rend bonus in under guts which it doesn't yeah don't worry you're just gonna you're gonna throw a curse on that unit with your priest who's up in the front lines and you're gonna rain 30 attacks down upon their lands and their peasants they're you mean 20 attacks oh sorry 20 tax pardon me but i like this thing i i think it's goofy it's super meta dependent but i like the way that they construed its attacks like if we do see people taking large hoardy stuff it's actually a pretty cheap answer to that hoardy thing to start thinning them out yeah and it's one of the gimmicks we haven't seen yet in seasons right so eventually the gimmick is going to be big units right it just kind of has to be interestingly it has interestingly it has the gut busters keyword yeah not ogre but gut buster yeah so even though like man man eaters don't have the gut busters the noblar stuff does uh huh yep noblars are 100 for 20 uh they're there to be cheap chaff they're so good at it too they're great yeah they got an ability that does something uh yeah which is cool on a four plus they do mortals for like things they chaff each time an enemy unit finishes a move so let's walk through that they move up within three inches of the noblar four up d three mortals okay they charge the noblars four up d three mortals they pile into the noblars four up d three mortals yep and then and then all the noblars die but still funny one of the best chaffs in the game has a chance at three d three mortals yeah yeah their downside is of course they're very slow all the ogres are much faster than them right so if you're trying to do the move up thing they will hamper your movement and that's maybe kind of frustrating but chaff is very good in this game a reason chaff is very good in this game is everything in this book right now that we're reading right um and also just a hot tip when you're playing with noblars in the game just to make the game speed up a little bit you don't have to roll their attacks it's okay right you don't need to it's their fives and fives no rand just save some time maybe your opponent marks one damage on his on his sheet there just to be a nice guy and then you move on with your lives yeah like just you can i'll activate my noblars i'll let you choose would you like to take one damage or zero damage i'm not going to roll the dice if you mark that whatever you feel is appropriate have it have it be a deal i'll tell you what either i'm going to roll 20 dice and then five dice and then you have to roll saves or you could just take one right now right i'll take the one every time i'll take the one waiter exactly all right frost lord on stone horn 15 wounds three up save nine bravery he's a big boy base move of 12 goes to 14 he is an ogre obviously so he's eating all the same uh let's talk about i'm going to talk about sort of the the there's a lot of similarities amongst some of these units because we're going to see multiple different dudes on stone horns and multiple different dudes on thunder tusks and so on and so forth and they all shared shared rules yeah for a tip the monsters are always the same like their profiles are always the same to help the player out so they just know what's going on with it yep this guy's still a damage machine still has a ward of five up he gives plus one at charge for friendly beast claw raider units holy within 12 of him which is like cool that's that's axe by the way uh yes yes it does so if you have two of them they're giving each other plus two there's no any no any found in that sentence yep they will probably f a q that at some point because they probably meant it like even when they didn't you know they often correct those in but yes you are correct like the unexpected bird thing where it was like made perfect sense of course there's two giant beacons of sorcery like in its inch they love magic of course they give plus two to cast nope all right fine um they have the earth shattering charge where it's add one to the damage inflicted by the tax made with their rock hard horns and crushing hooves if they charge that's great super good turns the horns to four damage the hooves to d3 plus one excuse me sadly they kept the crushing hooves on random attacks random damage so it is still one of the swing attacks in the game yeah uh sad that's annoying to play with but uh the thing is so sweet that who cares and the frost lord has a frost spear rule you will literally never care about because it does nothing and is such a waste of text i was watching your game uh by the way hey woe like yesterday or monday whenever when you like actually rolled a six to wound on some attack and you were like wait does this do something and you looked and you're like oh no never mind this is the wrong thing it was a wrong weapon it's almost on attack on a on a wound roll of six it does a completely irrelevant thing for that phase yeah it was it was double not worth it too because i'm like oh that's right yeah it's only a hero monster so it doesn't work but if it was a hero monster oh wait the thing had already activated right so it still wouldn't have done anything what is this not worth the paper or the like the text it's written in terrible i mean it could reduce the movement of the unit you're attacking that would be even worse yes but yeah the movement of the thing that you're in combat with yeah that would be silly damn that's a whole lot of words too bad i'm not reading them yeah so effectively this guy has three abilities but they're all good like he has a great profile he has multiple three damage attacks base like 10 three damage attacks base one of which goes to uh six of which go to four on the charge he also has is very swingy but potentially high damaging hooves he's tough as a coffin nail he can be given neg one to wound base uh from from rock main elder you know three up five up neg one to wound is a very hard profile to remove um in the game i played i did lift this guy but it took me three units into this dude to lift him and one of those units was a completely superjuiced unit of cast warriors that was up to five attacks each they were real angry he will eventually die but your opponent is going to have to put a lot of points into that investment yeah yeah i mean i had way more points going into him than he was worth right and it took all of it and i lifted him to the wound basically he's tough so and then obviously there's tons of spells and ways to buff him as well we talked about him earlier yeah uh this is the reason you play beast claw he's so fun they made him more fun he's great uh we meme on the random tldr rules in here that are stupid it doesn't matter he's awesome yep and i played with him several games so far this weekend uh better than ever yeah this is a this is a house he's an absolute unit if they're gonna have to fumble on something in the beast claw half of the book fumble on fraud savers i don't care ice bro i don't care yet he's sure just don't fumble on the coolest stuff and they did not nope he's great 445 feels exactly correct to me he is about a quarter of your army he feels like a quarter of your army he acts like a quarter of your army he's wonderful so like no complaints other than they could just literally remove this text so we because we don't need it so great uh all right next up the huskard on stonehorn which is your priest um so this dude is actually a priest a priest keyword he gets to select a prayer and yada yada yada um he has 14 wounds on a four that's the bit which is obviously a huge functional difference between 15 wounds in a three up versus 14 a lot for 45 points that you just lost yep yep uh here that's a lot for 45 points that you just lost again but he is a priest he is a priest his worst prayers are very good they are um he still has the charge bonus because he has still a stonehorn so that's he still has the plus one damage um still has the rockhard horns and crushing hooves at the exact same profile he just yes he doesn't have the frostbier what i love about this guy is he has three dumb ranged attacks because of the potential like three optional range attacks you're in the middle of one of them yeah yeah and the one you take is always the vulture always no question and it's so funny to me that they think that they can write rules that would make me take something else okay all the vulture does right is you pick somebody on the battlefield you can see and you roll a die on a two up they take one mortal wound that's it it's like the simplest effect in the world that guy mortal wound moving on so fast and easy fun by the way it's fun yeah that's fun by the way you take in fact you take a few of stuff like this and you're just picking and choosing a donut aisle oh i'll take that one and then one on this guy to finish that three wound guy off it's great yep um and then they have these other attacks the harpoon launcher and the chain trap and they have all that like they can hit and wound and their bad hit numbers and no run and questionable damage and there's like extra rules and you can chain trap monsters so they can't walk away from you and blah blah blah and i'm like no no stop it just cut this text get rid of it i don't care that it came in the kit it's irrelevant just give him the vulture all the time just the vulture it's vulture okay that's it we don't need anything else it's not bird also as a quick point so huskards in the lore right this is a lore channel now we're ready you start out as a huskard actually you start out lower than that but you're a huskard you're pretty important in the tribe and then eventually it's time to crown a new frost lord and you enter the election you get your votes right and then you're the one who's chosen you are now the frost lord and so what you do when you become the frost lord is eat your bird because you no longer have it so you devour your bird and you forsake your god and no longer become a priest and now you're a frost lord and i think that's weird that is weird that sounds like some reverse explanation crap um uh ben uh said oh yeah sorry so ben it says it right here uh huskards are armed with punches and kicks and one of the following weapon options are poon launcher chain trap or blood vulture one of the following weapon options it makes me want to know about the story of the guy that stayed a priest right yeah that's a great trait for it yeah yeah he's like nah dog no i'm good checkmate yes i took this tree this trait yeah so yes four at 45 points cheaper uh but as you mentioned we do need to talk about his prayers this guy basically has two prayers you're gonna see the same two prayers again in a moment when we get to the oscar on thunder tusk winter's endurance heals d three wounds and winter strength uh gives you plus one uh to wound uh for beast call raider units obviously both great both great both things both things you want yep like these are great prayers uh the fact that they can heal especially in a monster army with the heal yeah like a lot of times d three healing you're kind of like whatever but if you're playing a bunch of monsters that are incredibly durable that's very good especially if you take another one like maybe the normal heal for the universal that adds up yep yep and like plus one to wound is amazing because most of these these folks most of your other beast claws stuff wounds on threes moving a unit to wounds on twos is wildly good like plus one to wound is one of the best sort of buffs in the game you can get so yep it's good and and ben no problem at all buddy happy happy to help it's they don't exactly make it preeminent you're you're super good man no issue okay frost lord on thunder tusk uh i'm not sure why this why this guy rose to the heights of his power and decide how did you do it it wasn't i don't know nepotism maybe it wasn't through uh strength of arms mm-hmm uh does get the spear but sadly loses all of the good attacks because all you have is your colossal tusks which are way way way way way like bad foot hero storm stacks yeah i'm a 330 point monster or a 400 point monster yeah um he does still have the bellowing voice so the plus one to charge for the beast claw units he does still have the really long frost spear rolls yes they're pointless and they're more pointful in this one because he's way less likely to kill anything this is true uh now he does have neg one to be hit in melee mm-hmm that is true no five up nothing but you can get the five up so okay you can get the five up through the mount right yep he can be three up five up minus one to be hit and he still has snowballs yeah the real problem is they did fix the mortal wounds at range yeah he does two mortal wounds at range true that's okay the i i hate that they didn't change the rules it's still targeting like massive horde units when again right now i talked about the scrap launcher and why i think that actually has value because it can target those big units and you might say well vince aren't you being duplicitous here well first of all the most you ever get out of this let's like let's construe the perfect situation the most i get out of this is is six right sort of mathematically on average right yeah i should say the most i should say that sort of you know the average it's not doing a lot to 60 gro of moon clan rocks or stabbas right right and so it's not actually horde thinning very well and on top of that it's 400 points the reason i think the scrap launcher is funny is because it can do that job at 145 like it's pretty cheap and it can do it at like a very very very long range again this guy's like not that 18 inches is super close but it's not so it's not 36 either like that's yeah i mean move eight instead of 12 two so it's 10 instead of 14 it's a little i mean notice a lot slower a lot slower i threw 12 dice very regularly looking for sixes at our last event right because that was the urn for not and i regularly saw on like just fishing for sixes i regularly saw between two to four mortals uh-huh and like that's not bad no your dumb prayer which i never found did anything and was always basically worthless um also targeted generally like three to four units you were making those rules against okay it did and you were doing it at 24 inches because of your silly double the range of your your your endless prayer invocation thing like and and that endless prayer eight 400 points sure no but i mean again you're getting this on a a body that can be three up five up make one to be head that's not bad yeah he's very durable that's a wonderful pinning piece it's okay it's okay i i still think this guy's over costed my honest answer is if i wanted a thunder tusk okay then i'm taking the huskard on thunder tusk just to get the cheapest priest like if i'm if i'm trying to slam the cheapest priest possible into my army because of points the huskard on thunder tusk again his like melee profile is comically bad it does nothing okay he was punching kicks though on threes and fours dude look out for that yeah one damage no right but this guy is still a priest still has an egg one to be hit he still gets the little frostries ice thing if you think that's of any value i tend to disagree but whatever he can still have a vulture for a bonus mortal and pretty durable too yeah and still got the five up still got minus one to get hit in melee yeah it's a four up instead of a three up but it doesn't feel quite as bad and 330 is a lot less than 400 it just is like that seven points is a lot yeah well i mean the other thing that i'll say for this guy in defense of him is that you got to remember he has the monster section that's going to give him like enemy strikes last against it no i i agree what i'm saying is i think the frost lord on thunder tusk is a whiff because you're overpaying for a model that's just not doing enough the huskard is 70 points cheaper and i actually like what i get out of him because i'm getting the priest i'm getting the good prayer prayer buff and he's tough enough for what i want right because like i'm using him and the frost lord on stonehorn and like together to me they make the right sized investments where he's gonna pray and give the frost lord plus one to wound great he sits back in the back i don't need him to be a super tough because he's not in the fray as much right right right now me i'm taking two frost lords on stonehorns instead but i could see i could very see someone taking a huskard on thunder tusk it's possible to to play this thing i haven't tested it out yet i've tried a few lists but i haven't tried a a husk uh thunder husk hero version yet i think it's it's possible to do that yeah and i would choose huskard for sure over the frost lord version yeah like if you want to run uh like if your goal is to get a priest in the army as cheap as possible look no further this is this is the guy well i guess taking the command train as cheap as cheap as possible but i was going to say a priest has zero because you're already taking a frost lord on stonehorn and making it a priest but if you want a second priest and the war scroll prayers then yeah which they are good like these war scroll prayers are good very good yeah okay stonehorn beast riders at 310 um they are they still pack the stonehorns good attacks like because the stonehorn itself has a good monster profile he still gets the bonus damage on the charge he still has the five up save um the stonehorn beast riders get a vulture so good for them they brought a bird more birds uh that's what you're gonna take still because you always just take the bird all these other missile weapon things are just completely nonsensical ignore them it's always just the bird uh and then obviously they have a bunch of punches and kicks that do nothing uh on fours and fours woof like every other ogre in the world knows how to fight these guys apparently don't i think it's just maybe they're too far away their chairs don't really let them get down in the action yeah um but again at 310 these guys are like perfectly good and they are i didn't write it i should have but they are obviously battle line if you have the um the bcr general so yeah they are battle line and in in boulder had their 16 wounds and a four up save yep that's kind of like a little anvil battle line 10 man unit that you could have taken with two wounds each or something like that that has a fairly equivalent save uh that can use monstrous actions i submitted an FAQ question about this one the aos FAQ which is the email you use for that because in its little paragraph of the weapons you can choose it says you can pick one out of the three yep and what it used to say was you always got the crossbow and then you have a choice between the bird or the chain trap so you got two always before and the reason i think this is an oversight for them is you can look at the picture they have two weapons in the picture right yeah yeah raising the way to assemble this with only one weapon you don't have the arms for it like that you assemble this and each of them has a weapon right so that might be a omission or something or a mistake i think and so this is the most obviously the most impactful FAQ ever to give them a single attack fours or whatever but hey i um i just wanted everyone to do the right thing play by the rules also i um i think this model should be elite it should have the elite keyword because in this game if a pack of random feral dogs like dire wolves can issue themselves commands and every single squad almost in the whole game can issue themselves commands i feel like this thing should probably be able to do that too is it not a shocking that this is not the lead i ask you yeah yeah it is shocking yes i agree uh just wild i guess they really wanted you to use that voice of the avalanche or whatever they wanted me to use voice of the avalanche i guess uh which means they probably intended this and it's not a mistake which is sad but who knows um i don't know who reads the FAQ questions hopefully they make the right choice all right i believe in you you can do it and then the other side of the beast riders is the thunder tusk beast riders which you're taking if you only have 270 points left and you want one more monster truck i guess if you don't have 310 points you have to leave to the tournament and um it's on your shelf for some reason anyway and you got 270 points to pay like well okay i guess i'll put it in i didn't finish painting the gluttons that i'm using in a bcr army um i just didn't finish painting them so 270 is basically 265 i guess thunder tusk beast riders since it's already done uh yeah but these guys do not compare favorably to six gluttons i don't even know how to make that comparison you look at these guys compare to six gluttons and you're like so i get uh two extra inches to move huh okay and i sacrifice 10 wounds yeah yeah you lose 10 hey you get plus one save so you know i mean what are you gonna do there big huge difference and you can do like clockwork two mortal wounds every time you target anything with uh frosty dice in my experience anecdotally every time two mortal wounds ran or shine never more never less it's always two always two there are yes it's like sith it's almost like the ice brow uh the ice brow hunter uh our beast claw hunter guy as opposed to our uh gut buster hunter guy the gingerbread man uh i built mine without that big giant stone skull oh you went for the lion chest no i put him on why i have a bare chest i just put a normal gut blade on because i just flipped cooler that's fair he like because he has a full chest under there so like yeah he kind of has like the con he's wearing like cons vest you know so you gotta let that you know let that chest shine uh yeah i mean this guy is still largely doing what he did before which is taking a unit of kitty cats into ambush i don't remember did he used to be able to take two unit space of kitty cats into uh ambush there was a there was an old battalion alleged drop any number of cats with him and it was called a skull yeah but after the update it was just one okay and um i actually don't know if anyone should really play this for any reason at all yeah he doesn't hrothgorn's better and he's still not good right his gorges are cheaper now and hrothgorn went up inexplicably because frost sabers went up inexplicably they're 80 points for two now which is one of the worst just awful they got an extra wound i guess that's the reasoning and they don't want our battle line to be really cheap as if we would play an ice for a hunter general i don't know yeah this is this is doing nothing if you want chaff play knob lars even in vcr uh and ice for a hunter doesn't really do much his war scroll is really funny if you want to read through it in your own time and laugh at like the single weird attacks and nine inch range and stuff like that they got rid of some of his silly stuff but he still has ice breath that's good for a laugh if you want to read icy breath absolutely we're trying to get through this instead of shooting with your bad weapons do this other bad shooting thing great okay two single shot are arranged a different shorter range also bad thing yeah whatever yeah it's wild they clearly didn't go over this one again yep i agree the sabers are bad they are like your super cheapest battle line option if you take this guy as the general which is okay cool neat mournfang a 175 for two if you've got a bcr general they are a battle line uh they do have a champion the des plus one attack now which is cool however they only get a standard bearer and they only get a musician if you take them in four so for 350 for four they only get the impact hits that aren't on sixes if you take them as four as well the unit of the unit of two mournfang is feeling extremely depressing it's sad uh they don't have a lot of bonuses they don't get a lot of their stuff they weave through all the allegiance abilities they're kind of just two of screen kind of things that um charge something and make unleash hell bad but at four but at four they do glutton damage for 350 with faster movement yeah i think you guys have got some game uh they are ogres they do move 11 base which is fast as i said before but not quite fast enough but again if you take them in like thunderbellies where they can run in charge all of a sudden they're definitely on point otherwise think about maybe the prayer for three movement or something like that or just you know use them appropriately because your your stone horns will outstrip them to some degree and that can be a bit of a challenge yeah certainly not in damage though the more like a unit of four mournfang will greatly outdamage a stone horn beast rider for instance oh sure these riders are just like flailing around on fours rolling d6 for attacks they're they're damages super inconsistent not great even on the charge um if you want damage units of four mournfang are like uh glutton's which are just you're paying 80 points for being a little faster and you have a cool unleash hell ability that unleash hell is against you only work they only wound on natural sixes which means you're going to do it yeah like unless they do the if your opponent has like proxing mortals on sixes or something they'll still cast it against if you charge into the little butterflies the seven butterflies they'll still shoot you yeah but yes but for the most part it means your opponent will simply choose not to and then you can charge your frost lord in and there you go that's the use for two of them cheapest bad line you can take without humongous taxes that you don't want to pay uh it feels sad because you're missing out on a whole bunch of stuff as a unit of two but it's got a job give it some iron fists actually unlike glutton's because the damage is the same between both of their weapon options you might as well take iron iron fists and you can do some stuff with them on the table they're all right i wasn't like terrifically impressed with them when i was playing with them but they're all right yeah i was pretty impressed by their damage like they were definitely doing that they put out the heat they still have the problem they don't really take it super well you know even even ours like 24 wounds on a four up save if something with decent rent hits them it will just you know pretty much plow them off the table um they hate being fought like they really don't like when a lot of rent to is floating around in the enemy army that's that's a bad time yeah it was pretty common actually nowadays sure sure um like most of my army was rent to and mourn fang were dying a lot right yeah um but they're but they're damaged like when they got the strike now he actually played some with both builds just to see which one he liked better so like he had some with gargant hackers and some with the clubs hackers and i mean it is a relevant difference because the neg two rend uh like it that is a thing the problem is you go up to that force to hit so that unit becomes very much the one that like has to have all out attack and has to be very careful to avoid ever getting neg one to hit yeah right um if they can stay on threes and threes that profile will do a lot of work um because of that neg two rend in the in the current meta of like higher armor saves if you like the the the clubs and hackers are more reliable in more situations but they can also just duff pretty easy if they go into something with a high save yeah in a unit of four i could totally see if you're playing like one of those armies where i'm going to take a unit of four i'm actually going to cast blood feast on them i'm going to make sure they have their buffs and stuff hackers are fun rend two damage three that's just a joy to look at right on a war scroll good thing your little piddly units of two that aren't going to do anything anyway give them iron fists and they'll punish the opponent for killing them right uh yet ease uh yet ease are 120 for three they're they're battle line if you've got a thunder tusk in general um yet ease are bad right i mean like i don't think these are just well so they were technically like the best battle line you could play before this book but that was amongst a bunch of other awful stuff sure and they didn't get much better so yeah they squiggle around with the with the good six inch activate and pile in things so they can be annoying um they dodge all the relevant keywords they don't have unit champions so they can't give themselves commands their attacks are really random on fours and stuff they have a six up save i could see playing a few of these once you've satisfied your battle line and you're thinking like oh i'm playing a beast call army but i still somehow need chaff skip right over the frost sabers and take like a unit or two of ice fall yet ease and just kind of put them somewhere running around piling in maybe retreat and then pile in every single combat you could like maybe play them but in every list i've built there's no room for them and i'm not too terrifically sad about that sure also they're super ugmo like oh man yeah they're they're another ancient sculpt tom why am i missing anything here is there any is there any defense of yet ease of yet ease i don't really see one i mean they're fine i i don't know what they're doing right they're so fragile that's the problem like they're six up six up like and like even if you added two inches on pylons to get an eight inch pylon which is possible um with the item i just i don't know i don't know what they're doing so sure they're not like hitting super hard when they come when they come in right like sure they can run and then drift in eight inches um with uh or run in charge and then drift i just yeah i i agree i don't know either all right the fire billy's 130 he has his own little spell lure he is an ogre he's a single caster um he has a little fire breath i love that his little fire breath the short range thing on twos and threes no random one damage is again equal to the number of models in the unit but it caps at 10 but that this little dupe can make 10 range attacks or whatever is pretty funny uh and so like fine um what gives him a five up word that's neat um yeah if he casts his spell he gets a five up word his spell is like completely unremarkable except the in addition is almost the reason you cast the spell you're just like sure that and also i got a five up word that's that's what we're doing here i mean you might actually you might actually play this guy and he'll be casting billowing ash not not his worst gross spell right and that might be neat you could do that and the mall pot is still the mall pot it does what it is all right let's very quickly here at the end uh because oftentimes people have asked for this so we're going to do it fast because we don't have we're we're we're late but we'll do it a little bit oh it's all good it's been a good discussion it's a good book it's a fun book i think this is honestly like a fun book uh just said we're gonna do a couple lists i'll bring them up here so just kind of take us through we'll spend like a minute on each list hey well these are the listen some just fun quickest you gave over okay we start with the obvious list um it's oh actually you know what i should bring this up sorry for wasting time no you're good on my screen uh i i'll i will i will read real quick before you're bringing up i'll read the first one no i got it we're good okay cool go it's the obvious list it's the one everyone's probably going to start with or take something similar to this it's an underguts maybe it has a warlord and bounty hunters maybe it's got something else who knows it has a tyrant which is the safest choice to hold on to that trophy rack because he's a very durable fate secret death cheater he doesn't do anything else really he holds on to that artifact that's all he can do but he's good at it by gum then two butchers to cast buff spells blood feast is a great buff to cast on blutons who do great damage if they charge stuff blur burger rub is it does so much wow and flask of stone horn blood to keep the thing alive when your opponent realizes what you're doing and wants to kill the guy to stop the good thing from happening you run led belchers just as the cheapest possible bad line you can you're playing noblar screen so your opponent has something to attack instead of you while you wheel yourself into 12 inch range for the super shotgun shots which are the real strong part about iron blasters and then finally you can line up the big quad charge to blast them off the table you're gonna have fun at 2000 points and 12 drops um please enjoy it yeah it's just it's gross it will put out a ton of damage at range and a ton of damage in melee it's it's ogres uh somebody asked is the ogres book still strong timmy energy overall yes very much so very yes yeah i got a complaint or two about the book but strong timmy energy is not one of them they did it yep it does everything it says it will do on the tip yeah and then we have the obvious list but greedy uh which is the same thing except you wanted to play a stone horn in it because the frost on stone horn is super fun and the two most fun things in the book are iron blasters and a frost on stone horn and so why don't you play both of them the same list right you got to bend over backwards a little bit to make it work we only have three iron blasters we only have one shaft screen of noblars we got a whole bunch of gluttons um butcher is the general this is the greedy part he's very shootable in the face this guy and he's holding the trophy rack he's the one the cast blubber if your opponent is able to at range feel almost any damage at all he's dead and part of the combo is ruined but you know what you still got a frost lord still got a whole 18 gluttons that are trying to charge stuff you have backup plans and so this is the one where you're being a little greedy admittedly but you're playing all the toys at the same time yeah and we're going for an inspired triumph on this one because it turns out uh rolling charge roll re-rolling a random charge roll is probably better than plus one to wound but uh that's the taste so whatever you want to do next is the very advanced high skill required list which i may or may not be playing it's in boulderhead zoo the monsters are at plus two wounds it's bounty hunters around the stonehorn beast riders because they're not avahemath they become battle line instead so they're bounty hunting um two frost lords on stonehorn one is the general with rock main and touched by the everwinter which is the priest thing and i've chosen the prayer heal the next stonehorn has metal cruncher and he has arcane tome flaming weapons so each of them can get durability with their stuff you can miss the shield yourself with one guy and you have rock main and healing for the other guy but they both have offense too because arcane tome could cast flaming weapon you got metal cruncher and the other one is a frost rod on stonehorn so there's the offense stonehorn beast riders are not like terrifically great but it's 16 wounds on a four up they do they have a five up as well it just pretend they're big anvil battle line that if they charge something they're actually capable of dealing damage also they have three vultures that's fun you can point at stuff and have it take a damage that's very useful they capture 10 and then two gorges they are gorgeous but i'm not talking about the sculpt they will drop from the sky and hand you victory points for free and by free i mean 160 points 1980 blood thirsty triumph seven drops if you like monster trucks and apparently you don't like anything else at all uh this is the army for you although i must say if you're copy pasting the same exact model which is monopose that many times you might consider doing some custom stuff with them to taste perfect love it we did it everybody we got there there it is thank you thank you hey well much appreciate it thank you for handing over shooting over the lists thank you everybody who watched this is we know this was a longer show but there's so there's actually a lot of fun here overall i think i'm i'm happy with the book i i'm uh the problem i have right now is just too many books i want to play like i want to play my sons i want to play the s2d i'd like to get these ogres out it's all good it's just it's a it's a embarrassment of riches right now for me but thanks hey well i appreciate it yeah always a pleasure to be on the w w handing out w's speaking of w's you enjoyed the show do click that like button and the notification bell also we got patreon down here it's good you're doing so well yes hit like i don't actually know how the rest of it goes i was just okay it was pretty good all those things hitting buttons is fun right uh yes if you want to support the channel we do have a patreon down there uh focused on hobby and review and taking your next step on your hobby journey don't forget there's also a merch store you can cast your vote for team tom or team tyler through the only way we all know how which is capitalism the way we decide all things in america uh or this current world uh so uh thank you so much everybody for watching really appreciate it go out there always be charging smash your opponents just like you smash that like button and as always we'll see you next wednesday