 Live from Vancouver, Canada, it's theCUBE at OpenStack Summit Vancouver 2015. Brought to you by headline sponsors EMC and Joypling by Red Hat and Cisco with additional sponsorship by Brocade and HP. And now your host, Stu Miniman. Welcome back to SiliconANGLE TVs live wall to wall coverage from OpenStack Vancouver 2015. Gorgeous day here looking out over Canada Place in the harbor here, joining me for this segment are two newbies on theCUBE, but after they're done they will be CUBE alums like everyone else. Jeff Olson, director of EMC OpenStack services portfolio and Rags Srinivas who's the developer advocate at EMC Rags. Thanks for being our first hat on the show for the week. We're here at OpenStack so, you know, beards and hats and some good character to do there. Not the corporate buttoned up show. So thanks. I'm kind of a geek, you know, so I like to have my own personality, if you will, right? I really wanted to be in sandals and all that, but I thought that would be a little bit too much. So I'm here, glad to be here. Yeah, we just had Brian Gallagher on and said, you know, there's no suit, it's jeans, a little t-shirt underneath. He said, kind of a geek, most people here are waving their geek flags at the show. So what's interesting, I'll add one more thing is, so I've been on prep calls for the OpenStack Summit and so we're going over casual and it's basically jeans, like people walk around and flip flops and, you know, EMC's EMC and they're like, are you kidding me? Didn't really know how to react to that. It's like, look, just, you know, dress comfortable like you would on a Saturday or casual Friday, you'll be fine. Yeah, absolutely, I was the other extreme in the previous summits, you know, when I was not working for the EMC, but now I've dressed up a little bit. You know, if you can relate to me. You've got the logo polo, which, you know, I had many years wearing those. I now go logo-less being on the analyst side. So, Rags, tell me a little bit, what's your role there? What brought you to EMC? Yeah, so good point. You know, basically I work as a, I've been a developer for a long time and so I call myself a developer at heart. You know, development has completely changed, if you will now. And this has happened, you know, not just overnight, but, you know, open source has obviously made a big impact on development, right? I remember I was working for a big enterprise company, you know, back in 2008, when, you know, they had a decision of whether to go open source or not. And, you know, they really wanted somebody, a single throat to choke and all that, you know, things that they were kind of used to doing, you know, in a typical enterprise, which they didn't quite get that same, you know, comfort feel, if you will, with open source, right? So, you know, we had to kind of talk to some of the vendors, you know, specifically at that time it was Cloudera, you know, who were not even offering HBA support at that time. So, you know, long story short, we started with, you know, with open source quite some time back and I think that's the evolution that we are seeing these days, right? You know, if you think about, for example, open stack, right, because we are here, or if you think about Cloud Foundry on top of open stack, which makes development a lot easier, it's really all about open source. So, what I do is kind of work with application developers, with open source developers, and try to make it easy, you know, to kind of make this transition, if you will, because believe me, you know, there are a lot of advantages, but it's not easy either. All right, so Jeff, tell us a little bit about your role, what brings you to the open stack summit. So, I'm part of our global services group in our cloud portfolio division, and I'm responsible for creating service offerings specifically around open stack. So, my background is purely open stack cloud technologies. Previously, I came from a competitor here who has a strong presence and decided to take on the role at EMC of really, not only just being in our services and creating service offerings around open stack, but also being an advocate for open stack and really helping our organization understand what open stack is and how it can work well with our federation and our partners as well. Yeah, so Jeff, maybe if I can jump off there, you know, Rags brought up a good point, you know, you talk about open source, customers want a single throat to choke, I mean, EMC is known for, you know, great customer support, they sell solid products, hardware, software, services, put it together, but it's a little different when you kind of boil it up to kind of a platform discussion and open source is involved, how does EMC look at that? Surprisingly well, I think initially it was, there's a lot of, I wouldn't say push back, but it was a lot of bit, trying to understand how we're going to do in this new world around software, not everything's so relied on hardware, and but the things through our leadership, they embraced it, they basically, you know, said, look, you guys are all very smart people, we hired you for a reason, you know, give us a business case and we have a lot of people who came from other companies with open source backgrounds and it's really been embraced and really they've started to see the benefits of having open source technologies, you know, things like Viper controller being open source now, Copperhead, and you know, and many things to come, I think has been a great catalyst for the way that EMC is going, so yeah, surprisingly it's had a lot of good acceptance. Yeah, and also if you look at the Federation, the EMC is, you know, like for example, Pivotal, you know, Cloud Foundry has always been open, you know, they have Spring, we just, you know, open developers have been using it for a long time, so if you think of the family, I think open source has always been in the blood, it's just that, you know, it's becoming more relevant, you know, in EMC as well. All right, so maybe we could speak a little bit, what are the challenges of customers coming to EMC for kind of professional services around OpenStack? So with OpenStack, really it's a matter of the transformation, so I would say 95% are all very big VMware shops are saying, look, we recognize that there's this other platform, OpenStack out there, and are either top down management saying, you know, we need to start developing third platform based applications, and we realize that OpenStack is basically the right infrastructure as a service layer for us to build those net new applications, but we really don't know how to take the keys and drive it, in some instances, some of them say, you know, we hired one or two DevOps guys, so where DevOps are ready to go? And it's like, no, because you hired one or two DevOps specialists, doesn't call you a DevOps shop, there's a whole transformation that goes into it. You know, and Ranny's point yesterday, I mean, OpenStack is hard. You know, I think the deployment side of things is I think that that case is closed, right? And it's now, well, how do we use it? How do we leverage it to its full capacity? How can we provide value to the business? And that's really the big driver for them coming to us, is how can we leverage both a VMware environment, a Microsoft environment, our public cloud instances, whether it's Amazon or a Rackspace public cloud, merge them all together so we have a seamless single pane single control point to build these net new apps while making everyone who manages our infrastructure and the operator is happy. Yeah, Rex, maybe could you speak a little bit about kind of the interaction between the customer and EMC, you know, how much do they have? Does the customer need to, you know, go through transformation, hire new people? How much can EMC train them? How much does EMC do for them? Yeah, yeah, and that's a great point. You know, we, you know, I'm a technologist primarily, but if I take my hat off, right, you know, it's really not about technology. It's really about cultural change, right? And the moment you start kind of embracing open source, you kind of start looking at open source, you know, there is definitely a cultural shift that happens in the organization. I can attest to it because I was in the middle of that, you know, when we kind of moved into open source. So going back to your question about, you know, how EMC can help, you know, there are projects on emccode.getup.io, you know, which essentially does deployment, you know, into multiple clouds because, you know, as much as you, as OpenStack is kind of considered a de facto standard, if you will, right? There are still other clouds out there, right? You want to be able to deploy to those clouds as well. I want to talk about that this week. Exactly, yeah, yeah, we don't talk about that. But you know, how can you make that as painless as possible? How can you make it less friction? And again, I like to look at it from the ground up, right? There are a lot of legacy applications out there, you know, written in Java, for instance, right? How do you kind of bring them into the new world, right? That's not an easy thing to do. You know, you cannot forklift and put it in there and make it happen. If you use an infrastructure like Spring, for instance, it makes it easier to adapt to the, you know, to the changes in the infrastructure as well. So I think what EMC code is trying to do here, and EMC in general, is trying to do, is kind of enable this transition and it's happening from different points. And a big part of that transition is what we've done around DevOps. You know, if you go back two weeks ago to EMC world and you guys held the DevOps session on Sunday, I think what was the expected turnout, 25, and you had 400 or something like that? Exactly, it was just completely packed. It was an event, half a day event, which happened the same day as the biggest boxing event. And I think I can easily say that, you know, the DevOps event was probably better than the boxing event. You know, so it was really cool, you know, a lot of interaction there. And I myself was blown away by that. So thanks for bringing that up, Jeff. I think it was, you know, we saw the energy there. You know, different companies coming together and talking about DevOps as like cultural change and what can technology also do to help? Yeah, it's interesting. I had a great conversation with Brian Graceley on theCUBE at EMC world and we, you know, trying to tease out, you know, what is this whole infrastructure as code? Because, you know, I'm an infrastructure guy and you know, we, you know, start from, you know, your physical data center and you build up from there. So, you know, what pieces to customers own and what pieces, you know, don't they want to worry about anymore and how much does, you know, software go down the stack? We were talking with Brian Gallagher about that, you know, resiliency in the hardware versus resiliency in the application in the software. So I mean, it's changing and it's changing fast. You know, maybe, Jeff, if you talk a little bit more, you know, how, you know, just the training that EMC offers to customers, you know, working with your partners, I mean, this transformation is pretty massive. So, you know, how are we along that journey and what are the pieces EMC is doing to help? We're moving along well. You know, we're, there's a two-fold kind of approach for especially around OpenStack and this new paradigm and third-platform apps that we're full steam ahead on. But really, it's number one, we're strongly getting our internal delivery team and professional services and sales reps to be able to talk about this new type of applications, type of workloads. At the same time, we're leveraging partners like Canonical, Morantis and Red Hat to move we've certified reference architectures with based on EMC storage arrays to say to customers, hey, we're not only in the OpenStack space, but we want to make you successful. And whether you're using not just one distribution or maybe you want to pick one of the other partners, we'll be able to certify that our arrays are there and from a professional services standpoint, we'll team up with those partners and we'll make sure that your implementation and you being able to operate that cloud is a successful approach. Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, EMC's got a long history of understanding where it fits in the stack and of course, there's places you grow and expand and Brian said out of 17,000 engineers, there's like 400 that are in software. I forget the top level number, it was 400 hardware. I mean, software is where it's been, but EMC doing the partnerships. Maybe we could talk a little bit about kind of your activities here at the show, what's cool that EMC is helping with, who you're partnering with at the event, highlights for you. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the things that all of us are in the midst of is this kind of a container revolution, right? Everything is containers. So I'm a big proponent of a platform, not really, containers has been around for a while, especially if you again, go from the Java side of things where servlet containers have been around for a while and so on. So what I'm doing in this particular show is I'm doing a hands-on lab on Cloud Foundry on OpenStack. So install Cloud Foundry on OpenStack. We're not going to get to that in the 90 minutes that we have, but I'll kind of quickly demo how you can use Bosch how the VMs are automatically resurrected if it goes down and things like that, right? So we also have additional training at EMC code just in case you cannot get to all this in the summit. We did a couple of Docker hackathons which were really very well attended. We're going to have some more of that. Probably the Cloud Foundry hands-on lab also, repeat that. Lattice, which is a new stripped-down version of Cloud Foundry, right? I think it's great for kind of kicking your tires on Cloud Foundry because it's kind of the same look and feel. So we will actually be doing a lot more. Would you speak a little, because Lattice ties into the containerization discussion that you had. Absolutely, yeah. Can you just give us a quick on that? Yeah, yeah. So the idea is that with Buildpacks, which kind of Heroku pioneered, right, you can run different apps. It kind of falls through the different packs and figures out which one it is and runs it automatically for you, right? But there are a lot of applications which are dockerized now. So to be able to run dockerized workloads and all that is critical. And so what we did with Cloud Foundry was kind of rewrote the runtime part, if you will, in Go. And that's why it's called the Diego. And essentially what it does is be able to run these dockerized workloads. So you just download your dockerized app from the public registry and you can scale it up. You can make it highly available. I wrote a very simple example where I kill a particular instance and Lattice automatically restarts it from me. So as a developer, that's a great thing because I don't have to worry about how to make it highly available, how to make it scalable, how to connect to the logs and so on and so forth. All right. Jeff, same thing for you. Big things this week from an EMC's perspective. Not as advanced as what Rags is going through, but yeah, I mean, a lot of big things going on. We participated yesterday in the stay of the stack with a panel discussion with Randy Byes, which I thought went really good. We talked about where OpenStack is, where it's going to be going, and some of our insight. And I thought it went really well. I had some good feedback. Other than that, I'm meeting with customers. I'm talking with people in the booth and really getting a sense of what they're looking for from out of EMC around OpenStack. And surprisingly, I have a lot of people talking about how they love our open source strategy announcements as of late, and I think it's really positive. Paying attention to a lot of sessions around software defined networking and then the storage side of things as well. Yeah, so one of the big announcements this morning was talking about the community app catalog. Anything from EMC's has something kind of in the future. I know at EMC where we talked about some of the open source projects that were going out. How does EMC play into kind of an app catalog? Yeah, good. So I've been a huge fan advocate of the Murano project. Part of Q1, we had extracurricular activities to do around our bonus. I actually contributed some code and blueprints up to the community around that. And I really enjoy now it's seeing to progress and get some a lot of traction from the community now brought into the OpenStack community as an accepted project. It is super important. I think especially around our hybrid cloud model where we want to have seamless self-service catalog where you don't have to have that PhD to spin up resources in the cloud. OpenStack is going, it's that evolution. And I think that Murano from that perspective is really trying to make that operating experience a lot easier. And I'm really looking forward to where it's going to go over the next several releases. Yeah, and it's particularly timely. I was at the Cloud Foundry Summit last week and I'm here at the OpenStack Summit this week. There is a lot of synergy between the two. Because neither of them is, each of them depends on the other. Let's put it that way, right? And I think if you looked at the Murano catalog, one of the big things there was Cloud Foundry. Cloud Foundry is a little bit hard to install from a developer perspective and that's why we created Lattice, right? But Murano is going to make it a little bit easier. And I'm sure we'll see a lot more effort of kind of adding some of these different pieces of software, if you will, on OpenStack. I myself, you know, I attended the design summit at Paris last year and one of the big pushes was, you know, really infrastructure as a service is kind of boring to developers. How can we make it interesting, right? And I think Murano makes it interesting. And boring at the same time because it's so easy to do it. Yeah, well, that's actually one of the things we say coming out of this week is if this becomes boring, that's good. That's good, yes. Because it might actually be mature more. So last question for both of you. Look forward to Tokyo, look forward to Austin. You know, what should we look to see from EMC? Or maybe just to take off your EMC hat a little bit, look back, you know, what do you want to see from the community to kind of progress and move the ball forward? Yeah, so again, I'm going to reiterate the same thing that I talked about just now. I think Cloud Foundry and OpenStack is a lot of synergy, but I think there's still a lot more to be done. You know, in the sense that, you know, why is Cloud Foundry a first-class citizen on OpenStack, for instance? Or why is OpenStack the best infrastructure with Cloud Foundry, you know? Those things I think need to be espoused a little bit more. You know, we need to dig into, like, for example, a application marketplace, you know, which is, if you think of Murano as kind of like, you know, a lot of infrastructure or application software available, maybe something on top of that, you know, being available in the Cloud Foundry marketplace. Like, I have a HR application, or I might have, you know, some other applications and I'm able to connect them, you know, based on a microservices approach or something like that. Might be a little too ambitious in the next six months, but I think if you get there, I think it'll be great. I would really love to see a lot of progress being made in upgrades. You know, I think from installation standpoint, my personal opinion, like I mentioned before, I think we can almost close the page or turn the page on that. And now, I think the community really needs to start focusing on how can we go from different versions of OpenStack in a seamless manner without, you know, potentially bringing down your entire production environment. So I know we will get there and I'm looking forward to seeing where that's going to go next. Yeah, great point there. I mean, I know from an EMC standpoint, non-disruptive upgrade, something that EMC worked out through most of their product lines. When I hear upgrade, I hear pain. So let's hope when we come back, you know, once we get to Liberty and beyond, you know, we will solve some of those problems. So Jeff Olson, Brad Stern-Ivost, really appreciate you coming on, sharing your experience there, the developer community and what's happening from kind of the global services standpoint. This is Stu Miniman with theCube here at OpenStack Vancouver. Lots more coming through to you from the beautiful venue. Time's going on at OpenStack. Thanks for watching.