 Hello everybody. If it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it is time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host and my own disspoiler of everything. I love it's Tom. What's up, buddy? Hello friends So tonight I mean yep. Yeah, exactly tonight. We are talking About the s2d. We're talking about the slaves to darkness release the time has STD STD I like it better I like when we say s2d not because I care about the Illusion to the other you know well-known reference for that because it puts me in mind of too legit to quit and I'm all about that so I Mean that's legitimate. Absolutely. It is as I just said it is in fact too legit So, you know all I'm saying is s2d s2d to quit. So That's what we're talking about. Merry Christmas. Yeah, also, it's Christmas Day. Hey, man. How was your Christmas? Yeah Okay, you have a lot of kids, you know Christmas is chaos Yep, I'm enjoying one of my Christmas gifts from my children. Let me see that doesn't it says fantastic uncle Yeah, okay, so so your kids didn't give you like a number one dad mug you get your kids gave you a you're a good uncle mug Yeah, yeah, they did that's that happened wonderful. Oh, I almost forgot What am I amazing is that? Yeah, I'm sorry. I almost I had this sitting behind me. Hold on I got to get in costume here. I apologize everyone. Oh There we go. Oh There we go now. I'm ready. Okay at any rate Since it is Christmas Day, I'm glad to see your kids are and there goes Tom just like that. I knew his internet was bad That's fine. I'll keep talking while we wait for Tom to catch back up. No, I'm really here But okay, your internet's bad. It's just bad. Yeah, I know I know I'm gonna I'm gonna get some some fiber soon Yeah, well, you're on like you're on like 120 DPI right now, but that's fine. Whatever Um the I'm glad to see your kids are trolling you harder than I do. That's wonderful I'm glad that that's passed along. I think that's a wonderful tradition I mean, it's just something that everyone in my life does just everyone. Sure. Sure. Absolutely All right, so let's start off with some news man. What do we got? As you eat you're literally eating when you know you know, this is the section of the show you talk You're professionalism Tom You're showing a bite like before you did the transition. You're eating food. It's you know I'm having a Christmas cookie because it is Christmas, but Let's talk about a rumor engine. I know what this is. It's up on the screen The boot from the ogre hunter thing and the underworlds warband Shades fire and yes, whatever. Yeah Wait, no shades fires the name of season one. No, it's just underworlds Underworlds. Yeah, I was right that one. Yes. Yeah, the it is the mall tribes ran from Beesgrave, okay seems reasonable enough. I mean ogre's traditionally have those little that's what I'm calling That's those will be do metal things on there. You know all over the place That's very common. So you fire for them to Shay Steve Keen to Shay Yes, indeed indeed that is correct and we're just gonna have to put up with it Are you like downloading something you shouldn't be downloading Tom? Is there inappropriate downloads going on on your computer right now? No, no, I think the switches turned off With like do we need to do we need to feed some more food to the little rats that run to power your internet? Is that what it is that there you go? You're frozen again. I love it. I love it. It's great. Merry Christmas everyone You know, this is what I get for Christmas dealing with Tom So that's nice So while we're waiting on Tom, I'm gonna go ahead and go to the next news thing, okay Because I know what it is. So we got the rumor engine. That's fine. We'll leave Tom there paused And that's fine He can have that funny look on his face The And I'll talk about something important so we'll distract from Tom's face Here that he's making this hilarious face With a something a bit serious So in the description after this show You're all going to find a link that says That's listed as save RC There is a member of our community Kirk and he is an awesome guy. He's been a follower of the show since the beginning He is welcoming a new child his first child into the world this week And that is a wonderful great thing So he and his wife are about to welcome their first child in the world And which is fantastic on Christmas, of course, so they're having they're they're getting a very special Christmas present Unfortunately Kirk also Unfortunately Kirk also found out that his His dog the dog that's been with their family for several years has a Has cancer and is going to require some treatment And so he started up a little go fund to me by way of selling off some of his models So I have a link to the Facebook thing it's not just giving money you're I mean you can of course you can just donate But he's selling off his models to help pay for some of his dogs You know treatment so And obviously money is very tight as I don't know if you know this but having a kid is kind of an expensive thing and There you go. We dropped Tom finally. That's fine. He'll be back in a little while so the The link will be down there. You can go you can look at all the models. He's selling if you've got some Christmas money Burning a hole in your pocket. I can think of no better way to spend it. You'll pick up some models and You will and you will also be helping out someone to you know, keep a really beloved pet and Someone who only has dogs. I know it matters a lot to me I I can't link it in the chat I don't think I'll see you once Tom gets back and I can try to mess with it I'll see if I can pull it out and actually put it into the chat But it will definitely be in the show notes So if you've got some Christmas money if you're looking to pick up some models He has a bunch of stuff. He's selling It's it's getting something you always wanted, which is more Warhammer stuff for the holidays And it's helping out perhaps the greatest cause of you know, you could do in helping somebody who It's just like the worst time for him to be dealing with that. So my heart goes out to him What a wonderful thing to find out like two days before Christmas So as we all send him our best, I hope his wife I haven't talked to him since his wife went into The hospital. I don't know if it was like for to have their kid or whatever. So Hope we all we all wish him his best. His name is Kirk Uh, I'll like you can see there off of the facebook page. I link so Link will be down there. Please do remember. Please go check it out. I'll see if I can link the um Uh, I'll see if I can link it in the chat as well. So there you go everybody Uh, if you want to do something good for Christmas and keep Christmas in your heart And still get yourself some sweet new models. Why would a great way to do all of that at once? Uh, so check out that link below While tom is waiting, I'll just keep going with the news because I know it all I'm the one who writes it for him anyways Uh, and while he's gone, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna hold on folks We're gonna do doot. I'll make myself bigger there now. I'm a bigger part of the screen So we don't have to just stare at my little bouncing ball Uh, okay. So while we're waiting on tom to come back Yes, it will be in the show notes after the video is done. That is correct that link Let's talk about the big news that got announced on christmas day uh And that is of course, we're getting a new box set in january. We had thought we would have to wait until uh We thought we'd have to wait until february to get our zinge versus ko but no in fact Uh, we're getting it in january. So we're getting zinge versus ko And we are getting a brand new hero for each Including a hero on uh an endron. So we've got like an endron rigor type hero Uh, so that's pretty awesome. I saw both the new heroes looked absolutely fantastic So there's a magister on disc So he can zip around and keep up with the other people on disc the box. That's interesting Because it's all kind of elite dudes That is to say like on the zinchian side, you've got a bunch of uh the zangor on disc So they can be you know, skyfires or enlightened As well as the magister and then three screamers which fingers crossed Make screamers good Uh, I love the screamer models. They're so weird. They're so cool Uh, I really hope that screamers are Awesome because I love the models. I have a bunch of them and I've always wanted an excuse to use them I just think they're really cool. So, um You know, that's pretty awesome Uh, the new magister looks amazing on his disc like truly amazing model as per everything we've seen On the ko side with the endron hero One you get like the endron hero a gun hauler and six balloon boys And one has to hope that the idea there would be That the endron hero makes the balloon boys battle line Uh, battle line balloon boys in addition to being excellent alliteration Uh, would be wonderful So I you know, that would be great to see some conditional battle line in a book that has traditionally been Let's call it saddled with only one battle line Uh, so I like paul's comment radio free hammer all start collecting the floor is lava Yes all flying against flying Uh, so the aether war is the box set and obviously you get all the Tokens and stuff for their abilities as well as the models It's uh, one of the lower model starter boxes But they are all our more elite stuff and they're all worth quite a bit of points Like if you've built all those guys of sky fires, it's actually quite a lot of points in that box Theoretically as as as per how the points are now who knows because of course coming along with a box set Is also the book the battle tome for each one Uh And uh, so we'll get our new ko box set or sorry battle tome and our new zinch battle tome Somebody asked Why Is zinch versus ko a thing? Like why would the sky dwarves be fighting the magic people? Well one as they point out in the trailer like the technology versus magic even though it's magic tech But that's fine. It's kind of an interesting parallel But narratively in the world they live in the same place like their home is the same place zinch's strongest foothold in the mortal realms Is uh in shambon in the realm of metal And famously most of the big ko skyports are in uh Are in shamon as well No, tristan, you don't get the battle tomes with the box the battle tomes just release at the same time as the box So there you go Uh as to the hero models will they ever be released individually? Who knows Who knows if they follow like the um If they follow the tradition of most of these heroes Then the answer would be no Not anytime soon Yeah, the let me be very clear the box does not contain the two battle tomes my goodness I was saying that you like we are getting we the community are getting a release Of the battle tomes at the same time. Sorry if I was in delicate with my wording there Uh, I apologize. I wasn't trying to mislead anybody. I was only meaning there's the box set and then at the same time But as a separate purchase, we are getting a battle tone for each Will we ever get the uh heroes? Who knows hope so, uh, if not, hello secondhand market and or whatever I mean, realistically, they're not that hard of conversions like sticking a spellcaster on a disc and uh Well, your internet's nice and clear tom. Did you restart your computer? You're back Thanks It's good now. It's all right. I've been I've been doing your job for you Like I said, I'm the one who writes the news anyway. So it doesn't matter. I know what it all is. I mean We're talking about the zeech and ko announcement today Uh, very exciting I couldn't ask for a better christmas. Yeah, indeed. What a great christmas gift for tom Uh, so tom, I've already talked. I've already laid out the basics the models that come in The fact that we are getting uh, all of the Uh, the battle tomes will be releasing separately at the same time, right? Uh And that uh, you know just kind of an interesting box set overall and that I hope they make screamers real good What's your feelings on it? Oh my gosh, did he freeze again? Oh tom Poor poor tom now. He looks frustrated. He's just gonna live in this like frustrated state Uh, it's pretty great I really want to know who else in his house is using the internet or who in his neighborhood What is going on there? Uh So that's pretty wonderful At any rate, so that got announced. So cool cool beans. Uh, just I'll I'll take a look at some of the comments I'll tell you my personal hope for ko is that they are a Uh, they are a nightmare of shooting. That's what I want I want us to stop being uh, I want us to stop being scared of this People's constant complaints like it's not fun to get shot off the table Okay, you know what else isn't fun? Just getting steamrolled by a melee army like Yeah, I hope that they've got real shooting power I hope they've got a couple different ways they can be played Like I hope if you dip into the ironclads and you go to like all big single models That's where a ton of like ungodly shooting power comes from because that has then a very natural strong limitation to it, which is that Uh You know, you only have a few models So you can put these massive amounts of devastation onto the battlefield But then you've only got a few models because you have like a few ironclads, right? Um, I think that would be a nice way to balance it out Like if you go with the troops your shooting is just good. It's a good shooting Sorry as I'm having to talk here all this Um, so I want to see ironclads be a absolute nightmare on the tabletop I want to see the uh hero make Uh balloon boys battle line and I want to see the gun hauler become battle line That would be great like maybe and if I'm just wishlisting I would love it if we got an ironclad admiral ship that was a hero, uh like the steam tank commander There you go Um Yeah, I mean so just to answer an interesting comment that was made so long as they're not gunline shooting and have to move around That'd be great I mean if you want to win games in a os you have to move around period It's just built into the game gun lines lose games like you can't play six or eight Uh, you know objective scenarios and sit in a castle. That's a good way to lose the game Like this game requires movement Um, so there you go So I'm but again, I think an excellent what I was saying tom welcome back again Is that I would love to see ironclads be a nightmare of shooting that just devastates the enemy And that'd actually be a really good balance if like if the overwhelming shooting power was sort of kept into like you can have Devastating firepower, but then you have to take ironclads. You see what I mean if they're that sort of battle line Uh Then uh Tom move closer to your router closer He like joins for two seconds. We get a new frozen face and then he freezes again Merry christmas everybody um Anyway, I think that'd be a real great balance uh Oh neat at 13 uh, ilia says at 13 seconds in the video when he yells so rich. There's a terrain piece in the background Hmm. I will have to look uh, that'll be interesting and Hello, Caleb. Caleb said I'll see you at the top tables at acon so for people don't know Tom has played Caleb like round four or five At the top tables at acon for like three years in a row Caleb tom and I were recently discussing his potential lists For acon and I said he showed me a list and I said you'll lose To Caleb's new zeech On in game four at acon Because I was like you're gonna play him again. It's happened three years 200 people you find him every time And I said just assume you're to play him and assume you need to beat that army like a better version of zeech So yes, Caleb. It's it's in his head. He's already planning to see you again So there you go And yes, I agree tom is mailing photos of himself to the podcast. That's really great Okay, uh, that's a good idea. I'll tell him next time so maybe Maybe you should turn off your video tom. I don't know. Maybe you just don't have the bandwidth right now Let's see if he actually joins. Let's see if tom's actually here. Is this working? At the moment we can hear you. Let's see if you freeze again. You may have to turn off your video and be a bouncing ball, but we'll see We'll see No, no You refuse. I I've tethered my laptop to my phone. Oh, okay. Got it. You put it through your phone I'm tethering my laptop to my phone. Oh, there you go. Yeah Like I I'm giving up on our on spectrum It's fine. Sorry com guest. Uh at any rate Uh, I was making a joke while you're going tom because Caleb said see you on the top tables at a con when they're releasing this Even this is k-o thing and I told him the story of me saying you're gonna lose to Caleb in round four if you take that list So there you go Uh, okay Uh, oh nope even his phone can't do it tom just lives in a uh Just just it barely lives in a black hole today of internet suckage Um, but at least this time he's smiling So that's nice. That's a nice thing Uh, well, we will keep forging ahead. Uh, there's one more piece of news which we need to discuss Uh, of course, which is relevant Uh Oh, there you go. Well, that's interesting. Well, he's on his cell phone now So that shouldn't be happening. But still chances are he forgot to remove his cell phone from the wi-fi Before he hooked himself to his cell phone It seems like a thing tom would do so he like, uh He probably then lost the same wireless connection that he had I'm gonna guess that's what he did. He left his phone on wi-fi and then tried to join Uh Because that sounds like something tom would manage to accomplish Uh, okay. At any rate, uh, one more sad piece of news to discuss We, uh, we got the word yesterday officially that, uh, dunkin will be leaving gw at the end of the year Uh, sad news indeed Uh, but uh, I wish him, of course, all the best. He is a great man, a great teacher Uh, an absolute, you know, hobby hero Uh, and uh, you know, he'll be missed But I'm sure he's going on to do some wonderful things Uh, I, you know, he's been there a long long time and sometimes I'm sure people just feel like, uh, having a little change in their career So, you know there you go, uh The, uh The It's sad, of course because dunkin is such a face for gw He's such a positive force for them in the world and one of the nicest people Just ever Like I don't none of that is an affect. That's just him Being that positive and wonderful as a human being and sharing and teaching people So I have no doubt wherever he goes and whatever he does, he will continue to share and teach And uh, and be part of the the warhammer world. So there you go Uh, that's what I would say about that. Uh, and we can all uh, I'm sure that uh, they will find somebody I'm sure peachy will carry on bravely and I'm sure, you know, dunkin will still be around. So there you go Uh, all right. So with that out of the way, uh, let's move on to our other segments. So pick of the week Uh, as I I'm sure tom will be back in a little while once he figures this all out. It's fine Uh, either that or I just sit here and talk about slaves to darkness and move my little picture square To being the whole screen so that that way we don't have to just look at me in a corner of nothing Oh, oh Well, uh tom's back, but he's turning off his camera smartly. Okay. Um The uh, I give up At least if you're here, you're here tom if your audio is something I'm defeated. Like this is it. You'll be a bouncy. It's got me episode Yeah, I hate it. I'm sorry folks It's okay. We don't know why your internet's so bad. You know, we can try again in a little while But like it's not my internet like that's the weird like it's my like it has to be my computer Because I tried to use my cell phone as well And and tether like so did you remember to shut off the wi-fi on your cell phone before you tethered? Yes, I did. Oh, okay. I was I was making a bet that you uh, that you forgot to do that first No, no, I like I did all the troubleshooting I needed to do like I I thought through the process and I'm just it In here we are. That's fine. Um, okay. Uh, so my long and short thoughts on k.o. Um, we'll back up We had talked about dunking leaving gw. Oh, yeah, sorry dunking. Um Yeah, so let me just say regarding uh, k.o. I um, I love the box Like the box is more than I could have ever hoped for um in Like every way possible Um, so let me say it this way. Um, I Won the box tells us were like they went down the unnamed like hero route Right, and that's like that's a huge win for the army Um, because the the army like it had a hole that needed filled and they're they're filling it with the The unit even if it is just a unit that comes in um In uh the dual box and we're not going to get up forever as I saw one comment earlier Um, the the reality is is that like you can still buy brock and convert him and it'll be fine. Um, and so Uh, there's some of the basic uh fundamental flaws of k.o. That are fixed and more than that like I want everything in that box Like all of it. Yeah, sure like and not only like from a k.o. Stand point like yes I have 21 Inverton rigors already done And I have 12 Skywardens, uh, but you know another 12 skywardens isn't going to hurt anything sure Sure, um, especially with kind of the direction that it seems like they're going Um, which is we're guessing they all become battle line right right or general, you know, you're you're good to go Absolutely, um And I've replaced your bouncing ball tom with something more apropos I know you can't see the screen, but I can't I will see it on the playback apparently. Um And and on top of that like I You know vents that I've been wanting to build those angle or army for quite a while and uh There's like everything in here is like I I love everything about it Yeah, like I said, my big hope is I hope the screamers being in the box Actually means that screamers are like useful and do something. Yeah Yeah, always, but I would love it if screamers were good because I love screamers. They're all like They're they're my favorite zinch demon. Yeah, they're a very unique aesthetic for zinch. Like, you know, I really hope yep Yep, yep, yep Yeah, and so like You know, I look at this and I'm like I can easily go in two boxes on this And and plan to use every single model there. Yep Like without any hesitation Go. Yeah. Yeah, I'll use two full boxes of that with like nothing wasted Maybe the screamers, but even then I anticipate they'll be they'll be better So I like I couldn't ask for a better box set honestly. Sure. Caleb told you to stay in your lane Thanks. Thanks Caleb. Um, I appreciate that. Uh, I mean Uh, I'll see on top tables. Um and Uh, yeah, I I like everything that's going on here It's just the problem is is going to throw another wrench in my plans because I've already swapped to fireslayers and so now I'm gonna have to to To figure out if I want to run ko for a depth of thought or not Well, you and I already sketched out my potential army because, uh Yeah, and clay Campbell said not to disappoint you but morgue asked we're in feast of bones and they're pretty mad Oh, there's certainly many examples. I'm saying I hope I hope there's a difference between I hope and I believe it will happen, right? Big difference. There's there's quite a gap there But like, you know, my hope because I'm building the technological whirlwinds edge army, which yeah, which can include ko forces You know one and four, right? Yeah. So like what I want is those those Uh, ground pounding grid square destroying iron clads and I'll bring two of them into my forces And you and I already sketched out like a super dumb army. That's like two iron clads Uh, three steam tanks a unit of pistoliers and Uh, two two copters. Yeah, and then I meet the one and four ratio I've got three battle line because the steam tank commander would be the the general so the two steam tanks and the pistoliers and uh And good to go or or handgunners or whatever Wow Yeah, just just flight of the valkyries, baby. Just coming in Absolutely, it'll be delightful Now, it'll be good. Um, I'm I'm really excited We reported last show that we thought that this might have been bumped up from february to january and uh a week later We get that confirmation. So i'm excited about that. Um It it's I couldn't have asked for more is what I would say like it's just um You know, the hope is that they are going to deal with some of the fundamental flaws of of composition as it was Sure So and I think they will like I think that we have a good shot of that. Yep. I agree Uh, I wish I had a better picture of you tom because I would just put a picture of you up But I don't I don't have a good picture of you Thanks, fence I mean, I could put a picture of you up. You probably wouldn't like that. I already have a picture of me up But that's fine Um, that's what's up on the screen right now Uh at any rate And no nothing on sarah von rob johnson. Uh, I'm sure we'll hear about them soon enough Yeah, indeed. Okay, so we were going to pick of the week. So, uh, let's talk pick of the week What do you got tom? What do you want to share with everybody? uh If you guys haven't seen like I know that I occasionally I'll spook this but if you guys haven't seen any of the james workshop videos Um, they're they're funny. They hit the funny bone. So, um, I would I would highly recommend Vince will we'll link some in the in the comments below, but They've just they've been doing well with that marketing push. It's very, uh, old spice-esque Sure. Sure. Absolutely uh I'll I'll see There you go. I'll make the picture bigger for everybody. Uh, who's had mentioned any one of the picture bigger? There you go Uh at any rate, uh, so My pick of the week I already mentioned it. It's the save rc link buy yourself some models do something really great with your christmas money Help out an awesome member of the community. Uh, and you know, help him out during an extremely stressful time on christmas Link will be in the description. So you can get yourself models of your christmas money and Help somebody keep their their treasured pet all at once. It's a great It's a win win. So there you go Uh link in the description, uh, once we uh Once we once the show goes, you know is done recording All right, uh hobby time. What are you working on tom? Yeah, so, um, I had uh, I got I got some games in with you this weekend, which was uh, uh, hilarious. Um I sent vince some photos vince. You're welcome to share those like you can still share them You can share even without your camera on in fact, I can put my picture down I'm not gonna do that because I I don't want to mess it up. I mean, we're we're we have a good thing going here It's working. Yeah, it's working And last time the last freeze I did I was repolling up those photos And it and it was like more. Yeah as it was downloading it off server. So, um, not doing that You're trying to get these photos down. Oh jeez All right, they're just like photos. Anyways, well your internet can clearly can't handle it right now So there's clearly clearly It's it's uh, yeah Yeah, uh, so, um, we got a game in with some of my one of my high school friends Who's a newer player? Um, and nick a friend of ours and vince. I was in columbus And we got to roll some dice. Um, we got my teeth kicked in by news hashtag news slanesh. Um, Yes, I did. We played some teams And uh, it was painful. Uh, hashtag, uh, nerf news slanesh It was fun. Um, and then hashtag nerf warden kings Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're it was it was a very funny tournament event. So it was two cities of sigmar armies against a team up. I was playing slanesh and, uh, my my Team partner was playing ogres, uh, mainly relying on on maw tribes or sorry on um, gut buster stuff And, uh, he's wanting to try them out. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it was, uh, you know, which I think is good Uh, because the the ogres are they're into gluttony and excess. What better partner could they have than slanesh, right? And, uh, I'll tell you it was really interesting because I mean, I didn't summon a new keeper that whole game Now there's a lot of one wound models on the other side of the table, right? But uh, as I pointed out to you, like it would have taken me basically the whole game to get enough depravity for a new keeper Especially against one wound armies. Now I did summon stuff and it was mainly chariots chariots are now the sweet spot for summoning right, um I think that I like god seekers in this new world better because of the reliance on charging chariots And being able to charge on the aid is really good You don't need the command points as much because you can't rely on keeper spam And you really only need the command points to run the keeper spam engine, right? And certainly locus was like a lot less Uh, a lot less potent. There were many, you know, things where you were just fighting normally, right? Right? Yeah, so, uh, you know, it's just and and yes, your warden king After like my keeper had taken a few shots errant handgun shots Your warden king the regular dwarf warden king came in and one shot at my keeper because he was the only non locus guy And he came in and did like 13 damage to me I mean he had plus two attacks, so he was on six attacks. Sure Then he hit all six wounded all six and I failed all six saves Yeah, and then you rolled pretty well on damage So it was uh, it was pretty great like it was hilarious how it just everything went right right for that that little uh, that little dwarf and he For that small window of time that hero chop Yeah, there are many other dice rolls that did not go in your favor like when I zotted one of your units with one shot from two claws Yeah Yeah, that's not great But it was a fun game and it made like I did feel a lot more, uh Like it felt a lot better playing sonesh from my side, um with this stuff, uh, so, you know Uh, did you have any of those photos that I sent you? They're all in a chat. I can't click over to tom So, okay, that's too bad. I was gonna Shout out to my friend dan and his 3d printed free people's army Yeah, see before the game that week he had decided to 3d print an entire army just to just to see if it We liked it and wanted to collect the army That's okay. He went like the the hero Like the hero creator app or whatever I don't even know what it's called. You know what I'm talking about like the where you can like create an stl You know what? I love this so much dan. I'm gonna share it just for you All right. Well, we're gonna see if it actually works. Okay. I'll minimize my little picture here Uh, let's see if tom can share Uh, here we go Can we see that? Yep, and you're still there. Okay, and I'm still here. Okay so like he went and made like a couple custom files for like two different types of gunners and, uh Set a guard and then just printed all of them and he was like, I'm gonna give this a try this week ridiculous Yeah, and the wizards are yeah Yeah, he just shows up with this army of like gray 3d printed models and fence is like, what is this It was delightful. Uh, yes infuriating and delightful somewhere between those two. Yeah, sure Sure, absolutely. He has painted armies too. That's what's hilarious Yeah, uh, yeah, so he was playing hallow heart spammy list and you know, you were in temp asai And you both had bridge which didn't work out well for you in a team game No, no, I mean like we didn't know who are like we built our 1500-point lists without knowing who our partners were right and when we like randomly rolled dice as we always do Like when we do these team games, we always randomly determine partners that way it's that way it's not It's it's much more fun that way. I think because yet you have to kind of just be more Flexible flexible. Yeah, yeah So anyways, have you painted anything since then? Uh, no, like I haven't been home up until like yesterday and then we finally got home in the holidays and I had to wrap gifts and so no, uh, I'm sitting down now and I'm working on, uh Uh converting some poleaxe earthgar berserkers to broad axes Gotcha Uh, well very good. There you go Uh, if you have another picture you want to try like if you want to bring up your army or something and let and have that Be your picture it probably you know, you can give it a shot. If you just want to leave your picture as like your army Uh While i'm talking about my hobby time sure you can do that Uh, so my hobby time uh this week. I did a little paint hangout last night Um, I put together the slaves to darkness endless spells Which they're real fun looking. I got those Uh for christmas, so I put them all together have to paint them and such Uh, but I I love the look of them. They're just like they're so cool and chaos-y Um, and we'll talk about whether or not I think they're good. I have more stuff back here Like you know like these I got this A couple though, so I'm excited about that Excited about all the the christmas goodies Uh, I painted up a bust. I wanted to do something that wasn't war hammer So I painted up my little this little rackham goblin bust dude. I'll share some pictures of him Uh, he was fun and I Uh was playing around with a different type of non-metallic metal and really really really love sort of the The colors and combinations that I did there like it came out In my estimation actually really fun. So I was happy about that I'll you I want to incorporate that into some other models. So he's good there. He's a fun little He was just a nice one day paint Go in there try to do something fun with him I've had him for years and haven't had anything to do with him So I thought what a what a fun chance to get something out and do it Nice and uh, then I started working on this chaos lord I worked on him on the stream last night painted him for a bunch of hours afterward and ended up hating how he was looking So I just reprimed him Before the show. Okay Okay, and I have a new color scheme I finally settled on a color scheme for my slaves That'll make sense for me in how I want to run them because like I here's the thing I don't feel like painting my slinish color scheme anymore Okay. Oh interesting like I I mean that in the best way possible like I've just I do you know how much I've painted it, right? I do I do. Um, I mean I've painted 70 daemonettes and five chariots and six keepers of secrets and And on and on and on every character everything just like I've done so much with that army, right? Yep And like there can become a point Where a color scheme just working in it within a single palette Yeah It just becomes boring, right? But I knew I wanted to be able to like use these In a sort of slinish way as well as other things like I want to be able to run it as corn sometimes I don't want to be able to run it as undivided sometimes or whatever. Yep. Um, never nervous that would be insane I already have a whole zinch our slaves the darkness army, so I don't need that but um But the problem was I I I wanted to look different But still interesting Yep, and so what I came to is actually a totally new sort of color scheme that I think is actually the halfway point between uh corn and Uh slinish, which I know they're Opposed forces, but I I don't care. Um, I was just thinking through colors And I was thinking about when I was I was recording a video and I was talking about Uh the color of wine and yeah, and uh how the ocean was described in uh In In Homer, okay in the Iliad and the Odyssey and they described it as the color of a deep Uh like a deep red wine or something is how they describe the the sea And I got to thinking about that and and implementing that as a color scheme And that's sort of like deep crimson as a halfway point between the red of corn and the purple of Slinish. Yeah slaves. Yeah actually seemed like a fun challenge and I can work in some different colors Uh besides what I normally use and some that I do normally use and it'll be just a totally different thing. So there you go Um interesting So it'll it'll be a fun thing So I'm going to try it with this chaos lord first and that'll be my chaos lord on foot and then it's time to Crack open them start collecting boxes because I am my friend and buy in for the future as we'll talk about But lots of stuff. I've got so much to paint. I'm so excited about I've got two more pieces for my For a golden demon entry and I got this dude I got this little 40k guy that i'm super excited about uh tour garadon this guy I wanted this dude and and my in-laws got it for me for christmas, which was wonderfully nice of them If he's like the imperial fists special character And you know, I love painting me some imperial fists. So uh, so this guy'll be a fun project to break up for the future I doubt he'll be for For golden demon or anything since I already have um An imperial character done for that entry, but there you go Uh, yeah And and yes starlight knight flame said ub 40 stops starts playing for the red red wine song Look, I'm not gonna lie That was one of my favorite songs when I was that age when it came out favorite song of that year Certainly, I loved red red wine. I was a big ub 40 fan. So You know, there you go too. I'll have to make my playlist for this army. It'll it'll include that song All right, tom. Well, well sir shall we and this is great. What a great picture for you to have up Yeah, I thought so. Yeah, I'll make my my face just slightly smaller. So I'm not blocking your picture completely. There we go Uh, okay So tom, let's talk about uh Let's talk about some Some uh some slaves to darkness Uh, the grand marshal of the apocalypse has rallied his forces and is leading them forth From the ver and spire, you know from the all gates from the eight points out They go into the mortal realms ready to conquer and destroy All those who would oppose the unprecedented unmitigated unstoppable might of chaos Right, indeed. Yeah, something like that. That's the idea of the thing So let's start with 40 000 foot view shall we uh Tom, how do you overall? What do you think about this book? What are your highlights? What's your uh, what's your what's your thought? Uh, yeah, I like it. Um, it's a very like uh, it's a very Uh subtle book in a lot of ways um In that like there's a lot of moving pieces and you need to think about how you want things to operate and they did Really well with the points because uh, you're like you never have enough right Right, it's definitely a you don't have enough points book It's very much like uh, like the bone daddy's in that regard, right? Like I feel that when making lists that like there's problems here Like and in a good way like in a like not that I hate the book But just in a like no, there's uh, like there's you know It is it is appropriately appointed likely. Yeah, you have to make decisions. Yes. Yeah real decisions are made real There are real choice points Absolutely This is a long way off of like a stave and battle tone where it's just everything's cheap and you get to throw everything in It is definitely not that Yeah, yeah, um, I you know, I like I love the change of design direction on battalions Um They have lots and there was a lot that was useful here Like this is a far shot from like the fire slayer battalions where there were three and Like they were pretty useful But there weren't battalions for like everything I wanted to do in that book like I wanted magma of magma dr. China there wasn't that like here like if I want to do a cab list There's a cab battalion. Yep. If I want to do like a generalist And no matter how I marked there's a battalion for that if I wanted to do a god specific There's a battalion, you know, they're you know, so like You know, you can argue that the benefits aren't as good but Um, I mean, I think that the battalions are doing what they need to do in this in in these lists Yeah, I agree. So here's my high level 40 000 foot view. I love the book. It's firmly fat middle Yep The points costs are high right now and a few of them probably need to be adjusted down But nothing is too cheap It's largely absent any glaring issues save one which we'll discuss I don't know you're talking about yeah, but it's there's one. There's only one problem in here. I think everything else is fine um Uh Blair Jamison said hey, where can I find that pic online? We'd love to send to a friend if you mean uh, tom's warshrine That he currently has tom share that picture on your twitter and you could follow tom on twitter And that's where you could get it from if you just search for warhammer weekly tom you'll find it I mean, I think it's probably up there in my twitter feed at some point Yeah, but it may be a long time ago. So I will reshare this when the show's over right I it's a very synergistic book. It relies heavily on synergy to make the overcosted units valuable Um, and by the way when I say some of the points are a little high. I I literally mean like one or two units I think it could go slightly Um, I think and by slightly he means like 10 to 20 points where like there's no like gross, uh No, uh over pointing and I think that there's a couple War scrolls that could use like some like hyper minor tweaks to make them like usable It's also interesting to me because it's very much a two tier book. Let's start breaking it down You ready? Sure. Oh, we lost we lost signal for a moment, but we're back. No, I'm here No, I know it wasn't you It was uh, actually the internet. I think I There we go. Okay. We're fine No, it just the internet Went wonky for a moment, but we're back. It's they're come they're coming for you next. I guess. Yeah. No, it's just it's christmas time I guess everybody's everybody's streaming their netflix christmas movies and uh clearly and so Uh, and there we go Uh, well, there you go. He said he said you dropped for a little while. That's okay. We're back now And it shouldn't happen again. So there you go Uh, okay We're back Let's start off with the allegiance abilities First off the damned legions Uh This is an interesting solution to the problem one of the things we've always talked about is one of the great challenges is They have to um I love that that like uh that like bunch of viewers dropped off because we because we froze for a few seconds there Come back people. It's okay. We're still here. We didn't go away. I promise Uh At any rate, I don't know who I'm talking to because if you're still here watching this you don't hear me Um, we've always talked about the challenge of balancing these Choices these chamber like choices. Yep. Yeah against not having them, right? Like that's classical in the choice You can either take one of the chambers or you cannot And how do you balance that choice against each other? Well, their solution here was Just make it so you must choose one of the four How do you feel about that? Um, I'm fine with it Okay I don't have a problem with it theoretically. I don't actually love any of the chambers they designed Okay For how I want to play this army I I agree But I don't know that that's a problem uh Because like they're not too heavy Like unlike the other stuff like if they had made me choose something with like doc Or made me choose something with like one of the other ones where like, uh, I'm losing a trait. I'm losing an item You know, like I'm having all these heart like or storm gas where I'm having all these like very weighty decisions made And I don't like any of those things then I'm gonna grudge it for grudge it in here I'm just like I don't like what I'm doing. Okay. I'll do the spoilers That's very true. I mean, it's much more cities of sigmar than it is like storm cast chambers, right? Because you still have a command trait table. You still have an artifact table You're not making those kinds of of trade-offs I just we'll get into it The we'll get into when we get into the four of them because that's how we're going to break this down Since you must choose one they become an excellent framing device for how we discuss this army The four are ravagers cabalas to spoilers and the host of the ever chosen. Okay Uh, all right, so and we'll get into those in a minute Then there you're the other allegiance wide ability is the aura of chaos Where each slaves to darkness hero in your army has one of the following aura aura of chaos is And it's based on their mark. So like if you're a corn hero, you have the aura of corn quite obvious If you have multiple as an option a la your archaion You must choose one Yep, right. Yep. You can't like archaion does not broadcast the aura of corn and zinch and nergal and slanesh and undivided Even though he has all those keywords He'll broadcast one. Yeah, go ahead. Can I uh name the elephant in the room or do we want to let go through all of it And then talk about it. What's the elephant in the room? That over a quarter of your war scrolls in this faction do you not benefit from their allegiance abilities? Right, correct That's what I was going to say. That's why I say it's a two-tier army Right because it's completely focused around these marks And your your only allegiance abilities like that are general are these marks and Heroes become maybe auto dying or maybe gaining some minor perks as the game progresses, right? Yep. Okay, and a huge section of the war scrolls in this book Uh 14 to be exact. Yes 14 of 40. Yeah, so over 25 percent Yes, have no mark nor any ability to get a mark right Yeah Like it would have been easier if they just made them undivided just auto make them undivided Sure, which is what they did with a couple things, right? Which we'll talk about when we get to their scrolls. There are two scrolls in here that are just auto undivided Right like bellachor. Yeah, like bellachor exactly Um, but yeah, I mean it is we'll we'll talk to it But like it's the war cry war bands and some of the new monsters and stuff like that. We'll we'll absolutely get into it Right. Okay. It's egregious. Let me say that because like I just I don't understand I don't understand the design decision that was made. Well, it's interesting because it's still they can still have a use In some of these but their use becomes very restricted to very particular things right Yep, um, they are they become marginal utility units instead of actual like units that you're going to include in an army Right. I mean, yeah, they're just they're just cheaper versions of hordes of dudes if you need them, right is what it ends up being right, right, uh Okay, so let's go through these real quick Or of corn Uh, you can re-roll all these are 12 inch bubbles by the way and in Three out of the four you have a way to take them to 18 inches right, right Okay So, uh, holy within bubbles is who gets this and they broadcast it out to their troops Or of corn you can re-roll hit rolls of one for attacks made with melee weapons by corn units, holy within 12 In addition, if this model is the general add one to wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly safes darkness corn units, holy within 12 So re-roll hits of one and the general broadcasts a plus one to wound Fantastic. Great. Right. That's a that's a super solid mark Uh, love it No issues corn Great work corn. You did good. You passed the test Zech You can re-roll save rolls of one for attacks that target friendly slaves to darkness units, holy within 12 In addition, if this model is the general each time a friendly slaves to darkness each unit holy within 12 Of the model is affected by a spell or endless spell You can roll a die if you do so on a five plus ignore the effects of that spell or endless spell on that unit Yeah, uh Not as good the re-roll save rolls of one is obviously one It's a mystic shield spell to there are like eight million ways in this book to get re-roll all saves Including by the way, just like some units existing Right in certain numbers just have this so it's completely worse duplicative The ignore endless spells Is also similarly like duplicative to a degree with some other abilities now you can stack those Right like you can do a four up and then a five up and then a five up And you know, okay That's all right. I guess Like that has I suppose more value if Zech comes out and is like hyper Like hyper magic dominant And and just like there and they're just destroying table tops Then sure being able to like layer multiple levels of bounce spells Um becomes interesting but Right, you're you're like a like a how do I say yeah, you're like a uh bad hollow heart. Yeah, exactly Um, yeah, I agree like it's Zech is I think The actual weakest in this of all the potential marks, which is sad as previously mentioned I have an entire Zech slaves to darkness army already painted at any rate Uh aura of nergal if the unmodified wound roll for an attack made with a melee weapon By a friendly slaves to darkness nergal unit wholly within 12 of this ability is a six add one to the damage inflicted by that attack In addition, that's the wound roll makes the damage go up by one In addition add one, uh, sorry, uh, in addition if this model is the general Subtract one from hit rolls for attacks made with missile weapons by the target friendly slaves to darkness whole other than 12 Fantastic great. I I don't like dice splitting like that where you have to go This is my damage one pile and this is my damage two pile or whatever. Yep. Yep. Yeah, but you know Okay, it's still a really strong ability like plus one damage is you know really good and for for like an army that struggles with damage uh like nergal and like Yeah, like this army in general just slaves to darkness has like has the like lacks a real hammer Like being able to spread out some damage is not a bad thing Yep Uh, the aura of slanesh basically the base ability turns you into the same normal slanesh thing where sixes are double taps You know if you roll a six to hit you get to get two hits out of it So it's literally the exact same thing from the demons which I actually don't hate at all Right because then it means kind of you still feel like you're there's a thematic similarity Yeah, you feel like you're playing slanesh Right exactly in addition if this model is the general you can reroll run and charge rolls for friendly slaves to darkness Units holy within 12. Again. I don't mind that. I think slanesh is like okay. It's it's pretty good Um, I would rank it like right below the nergal and the corn but still in a good section Right because not having to blow or waste command points on craft like that is you know You know what I mean like that just and that's bubbling from every Sorry, the the sixes is bubbling from every hero But the the charge thing could be an 18 inch bubble up your general, right? So that's quite a large bubble of just free rerolls Which is always good And then finally the aura of chaos undivided, which I think is the weakest Here, but there are other reasons why undivided is stronger, which we'll talk about later Sure, sure Because I when I say the marks are like that what I mean is like overall in the totality I would rank it as nergal corn slanesh undivided zinge. So yeah, I think it's accurate uh Do not take battle shock tests for friendly slaves darkness undivided units holy within 12 In addition, if the model is a general you get a six up feel no pain after everything for a wound for wounds or mortal wounds basically your your heroes all emanate a war shrine buff or sorry your general emanates a war shrine buff everybody else emanates a battle shock community. There we go Uh, which who cares? Like, okay, I guess How hilarious is that that in like do you remember that was a thing like having battle shock Battle shock community was a big deal Sure Here you're just like, yeah, if you're near a hero fully within 12, you're fine I mean, this is quite an elite army as well. Like there are some builds that are very much not elite Um, but a lot of this in there is not going to put a high model count on the board now But I'm just bringing to the fact that like that that ability itself Has like used to be like a big deal. Oh, and now as we've talked about battle shock isn't a thing in this game Sure. Yeah, like that's not a real ability. Like that's not a real effect that happens. I agree Uh, I mean it does every so often like two or three people flee out of a unit. You're like, okay You know, whatever. Yeah, um, you have the eye of the gods Which uh, how that table works now is various slaves to darkness heroes have the eye of the gods keyword And if they do whenever they uh, slay a hero or a monster you get to make one role On that table for that hero And hope it's not snake eyes. Yeah, I mean if it's snake eyes you turn into a spawn like, okay, whatever Um Like there's still I mean most of the other stuff here are actually quite good, right? Yeah You know, I would point out that rolling even a three still increases one of your weapons rend by one Which is like, you know Not bad Right. It's pretty good. Actually, you know, like it's it's a good reason you want to go hunt heroes It's a nice bonus that's going to happen every so often. It's not an ability you bank on and go Yes, this is a cool thing i'm going to do But I mean all your heroes have this ability like all your all your um mortal heroes have this ability, right? Yeah, um So it's fine. It's like your manticore heroes don't right? No, they do. Yeah. Oh, they do. Wow. Yeah, yeah I like I had to go look that up. It was one of the first things I wondered about I was like, huh, I wonder like that would really be horrible to Uh lose your sorcerer lord By the way, it's your chaos lord on manticore It says you can roll by the way Yeah, sure. I mean, but I'm good or so you're gonna But I'm saying like you can elect to not roll like if you're worried about losing it. Yes Uh Oh, and that's a good point on spondum by the way It it says there you can add one slaves to darkness chaos spawn to your army So that's also optional. You don't have to accept the spondum. So there you go You only slay the the the guy Uh, if you set up the slaves to the the spawn so there you go. No downside So always roll and yes, the chaos lords on manticore and stuff. They do have the eye of the gods as well. So Yep, um RK on does not he already has the eye of the gods There you go And you know, one of the things you can do is like you can add a demon prince to your army and then kill the hero And that that classic thing, but most of it is just fun stuff that happens You get a permanent bonus Uh, you summon a couple dudes like nine to ten is a good roll Because you actually get to summon in a unit of stuff like, you know, blood letters or Like bears or daemonettes or furies or whatever. So that's fun Uh, their spell lore let's talk about their spell lore because that's actually the next thing Sure, let's frame that up first. They have a wicked good. It's wicked good spell lore. It's wicked good right there Right, uh I mean tom there there. I would argue there's like five at least good spells in this list Okay, sure sure Uh, I love the tech. I love the tech that's available agreed so Like the the important things to hit here are binding damnation Uh, 12 inch cast on a seven pick an enemy unit Uh until your next hero phase that unit fights at the end of the combat phase So it's an activation war's piece. Yep. Um, I know you love whispers of chaos. You want to talk about whispers of chaos? Uh, yeah, so it's um, like for some They they may not Not uh, I don't want to say this Um be as hot on it. Um, but for me, it's it was a really eye grabbing Lore and so basically what it does is spell. So it's like a um, it's a horde Uh, plinker. Yeah horde plinker. I think that's what we decided on for sixes. Yes Yeah, like you choose a unit within 12 Um, you rolled ice equal number of models in the unit So they like it's the it's not the number you don't roll dice for every model within 12 So like if you can touch a unit of 40 you roll 40 dice, right? Sixes do a mortal wound which is not a lot honestly like so it's going to scratch a unit But most importantly is that if any models are slain out of the unit Um from the spell the unit can't move until the start of its next until sort of your next euro phase Which means that not only can it not Like move it can't charge It can't pile in It can't do anything that constitutes a move That's really good. It's a very strong ability Um, like being able to lock somebody in place and you know, this is this was sort of the um This was sort of the spell that made me want to make my the worst army ever to play against army Sure, sure. Yeah, right where you're just locking people in place and making them fight last and and all this kind of horrible stuff This was the spell that tripped me into into going like yeah, let's do that Let's make a horrible. Let's make the worst play experience for your opponent ever Yeah, thanks That was not me. I want to point that out to everybody. I want to be clear That was not tom that was wanting to generate that play experience I I wouldn't actually build the list or play a list, but it's funny that you can make it Uh, it is it is and it's strong like it's not uh, like it's a strong strong ability because it's like 100 times worse than rat trap in that like If it goes off Like you can try like so let's say they like bunker, right? I don't I wouldn't say that here's the limitation You're not stopping big elite units with it, right because like you hit a unit of six storm feeds Right. No one's dying. I was just against the roof, right? Like you're stopping chaff walls Or yeah, sure you can lock people in place by just plinging a chaff ball And if you get one dude dead then that wall locks in everybody behind them if they can't fly, right? Oh, it's a very versatile spell like it's like Enscaven Oh, buddy. Yeah, like rat Like the clan rats that normally like want to hit and like retreat like, you know Like charge and retreat and like chaff things up or whatever You just do that and then they don't go anywhere and because they don't go anywhere like no one behind goes anywhere like it's just It's a really powerful tool. It is and then the other one that is worth pointing out uh is the Mask of darkness also cast on a seven Uh, and it's also you have to pick a unit wholly within 12 and you can teleport them It's just it's a standard teleport a unit. They have to be set up nine inches away Blah blah blah blah blah what's interesting about all these spells that we've picked the likes is they're all casting value seven And they're all 12 inch Right, right. So let me just say it just begs for a bail wind He said pushes it out to 18 That pushes out to a like a real casting like a real casting distance As opposed to the the 12 inch like needing to be close to get these spells off Well, you also like are gonna really favor things like arcane terrain and um And we'll talk later that I think the the I think the There is one of these, uh Chambers or or evil cities that I think people, um Really don't like or like the least that I actually think has interesting gas in the engine for various reasons But we'll we'll get to it. Yeah, uh, but yeah, anyway Great spell or very interesting three. I think great spells two more that are at least interesting And uh, yeah, there you go. Um as as it was mentioned in the comments I'll talk it out like spike tongue curse is actually a really funny spell We don't see this kind of design often because it has a casting value of three Right And you pick a unit within 12 inches and that unit suffers three mortal wounds just straight out But if the casting rule is unsuccessful or the spell is unbound you the castor suffer three mortal wounds So they basically removed the sort of casting roll as a Uh as a cost to it and just made it completely ride on the unbind or you know, whatever Yep, don't roll snake eyes All right So, uh, kind of a fun little interesting design in a spell Nice little sniper thing though if you can, you know, if you've uh, I would argue if you're in cabalus That actually becomes a pretty interesting tool by the by uh, depending on who you're up against Sure, I can see that Uh, all right, so let's go through the the the evil cities of the ver inspire. So first off the ravagers Uh, the ravagers are your more Horde-y focused one, I would argue. Yeah Uh, they are more focused on the mortal heroes. So, uh, I'll run through it real quick their basic abilities Uh, if your general is not a demon prince, which this is the as I said, this is the mortal focused one So right away you can pick one command trait for up to five different friendly ravagers heroes excluding demon princes In addition to the command trait your general can have You must pick a different command trait for each of these heroes and none of them can have more than one command trait You can use these command traits for these heroes, even though they are not your general. So cool beans You get five. It's sort of like the claw lords, right where they all show up with their own command trait And then at the start of your hero phase, you could pick one friendly ravagers hero who isn't a demon prince Uh, that is on the battlefield and has a command trait to stake their claim as warlord If you do so, that hero becomes the army general until your next phase. Obviously, this can be very useful um, because remember the general will often broadcast a Uh, a more potent aura of chaos bubble Right. So if you need to move the more potent ability around the battlefield, you can do so That's a nice ability. That's a nice thing Um, so that's kind of a cool Kind of a cool thing you can do there Yeah, uh, in addition you gain a command trait called rally the tribes where you can summon models General or command ability. Yeah, sorry Each general can only do it once so you can do this five times over the course of the game basically once per round You have to swap generals to do it And you can summon in a unit of 10 cast marauders Five cast marauder horsemen or one unit of cultists of up to 10 models, which all of the Cultists are the work right warbands, right, right, right and they walk in from the table edge Uh, you know within six inches more than nine away from the enemy. So okay fine and andy Um, yeah, that's the basics of it. It's clearly the one that favors mortal heroes. Um, I dig it. Okay Uh, the command traits aren't terrible. Let me just say that. Um, it's like you can get some good, uh I feel like you can get some good benefits from that kind of stuff Uh, are there are there elements in the command traits or artifacts that you happen to like? Um, I'm a fan of the like up up uh up to or down to Of the uh, where where is it favorite of the pantheon the adder subtraction results made on the eye of the gods. Sure Yes, like that, uh, again, I don't like randomness and so anything that's going to let me swing something like with a range of four You know, like you roll once and you get to choose from five different things. That's that's kind of nice Sure. Um, and then obviously the free the other uh, big one here is the free once per turn at the double Like or yeah, the problem is it only works on cultists, which I hate But yes, if you if you're running a cultist heavy force, sure No, but no no no no no no What you do is you run one of your power centers Right sure like one of your uh I I'm assuming if you have a significant unit of those guys, that's a that's a heavy force Based on how much you would normally see them Right. Sure. That's fair But the point being like you put you put that hero with uh, whatever block of cult it the one block of cultists that you run Sure Uh, I think eternal vendetta is the strongest one if you've got a melee hero And remember this can go on like your it's mortal heroes, but like this could be on your ks lord on manticore Right who who can do Okay damage so like but but if you keep layering stuff on him You know if he has like the corn aura And he has this ability which is eternal vendetta. You can reroll wound rolls for attacks made by this general Which is just always good And then in addition you can reroll hit rolls for attacks made by the general three target order You know so like okay great. So now if you're in corn You're you know if you're in corn, you're rerolling ones to hit all the time regardless Right. You're rerolling wound rolls and adding one to them For him because he's benefiting from his own aura if he's a general that turn Right, uh So yeah, I don't I don't hate that on like a lord like a lord on kakadrak. Oh sure. Yeah lord on on on karkadrak Yeah, yeah, I'm just because like yeah if you gave him like the neg three ren like rune blade Yep, um on his attack suddenly like you're cooking with butter Yeah, I agreed in corn. Yeah Yeah, it's not bad. Uh magic items of note for me here would be basically one I think there's one okay magic item in here and that's the mask Sorry the mark of the high favored Which is friendly ravagers units are affected by the bearers aura of chaos ability where they are wholly within 18 inches the bear So you can take one hero and broadcast his aura out to 18 inches So whoever you think is going to be kind of in the middle of the board moving around with the largest cloud of troops around him You do have an ability to push that out to 18 inches. So that's cool Um, I hate marauders and I don't like the war cry war bands in this army And you know, we'll talk about it later, but like marauders are an absolute powerhouse in this force Yeah, I mean, I think the strongest thing that this brings Is the ability to summon 10 marauders. Sure um on a board edge every turn Because they will make their nine inch charge and tie up whatever they hit. Yep Should we just talk about the marauder war scroll because yeah really good and like People need to understand why marauders are really good because they actually don't read super amazing When you first look at them, but they are really strong Okay. Yep. Yep. Okay. So the basics of marauders Chaos marauders are a battle line unit you buy them in they're they're like clan rats. It's a 20 40 Right. Yep. So 20 of them are 150 points 40 of them are 300. There is no There is zero horde discounts in this book. Let's just start right does not exist Okay, so great 150 300 awesome. Yeah Okay, chaos marauders six inch move six up save right, um They can have either the axe and a darkwood shield or the flail Um, I think most of the time you would probably give them the axe just personal opinion But the axe is two attacks four four no rend one damage Fantastic unless you're wanting to convert all your ugly marauder models from flagellants and then you'll go. Sure. Sure um You know and they have pretty standard leadership like that is to say they got it They got a chieftain who adds plus one attack and uh, they've got an icon bearer who makes the enemy subtract one bravery Okay, cool Um, their drummer gives you plus one to run in charge, which is good. Plus one to charge is always amazing, right? Especially when we talk about what's going to happen in just a moment Right, right. They can obviously take a mark of chaos. They can have any mark corn, zinch, lanesh Nergal or undivided Uh, and now their abilities add one to hit rolls for attacks made by this unit while it has at least 10 models In addition improve the rend characteristic of these units melee weapons by one while it has at least 20 So these guys in a horde of 40 suddenly jump to three three four egg one one damage. Yeah Pretty pretty good right there on 25 mil bases and attacking in two ranks Uh, if you gave them the shields like the axe and shield option Yep, then you add one to save rolls for attacks that target this unit period not just in melee like this often pops up It's just all the time So they basically go to a five up Yep, right And there are ways to get them onto a four up in this book, especially if they're say nergal marked Yep, uh, and finally the ability to end all abilities Oh, dear lord boundless ferocity When you make a charge roll for this unit change the lowest dice in that roll to a six If the roll is a double change one of those dice to a six instead Uh, what? So they always charge seven So what well they always charge they always charge eight because they always add plus one as well I mean assuming they're the drummers life. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so they always charge eight on a on a snake eyes They charge eight Right on a snake eyes. They charge eight and so if you don't roll a snake eyes Yes You make a nine inch charge correct, so they have a one in 36 Chance of failing a charge failing a nine inch charge nine inch charge, right? Yep, that's uh, that's crazy Like yeah, I agree like that's one of the powers of the ravagers that these guys come on on the table and can just Charge stuff right now ten rotors isn't super powerful. I mean, they're still gonna be at the threes fours No rend whatever but they're gonna get in and they're gonna tie up an objective that like That you don't want them on that's the key is that they're gonna get on it They're gonna put pressure in spaces that you don't want pressure to beat And guess what if you don't kill that ten there's another ten coming next turn right exactly Yep, I mean it's just an unbelievable ability To move on to the board edge because you can move on up to six inches and then they can easily charge nine so they're gonna they're going to Very easily penetrate 15 inches into the board right from the edge And many many battle plans as many scenarios have Objectives within 15 inches of a board edge, right? That's just the nature of the thing So you can threaten weekly defended Uh, objectives just so easily Right. Yeah. Yep Um, yeah, I mean marauders are very very powerful Um that ability to just drop nine inch charges like it's nothing like it is Nothing right So as vince and I have always said just roll nine just roll nine is really something that happens with them Yeah, and for them like that's a real thing that Will just happen and that's okay for them Like like it makes them strong. It makes them worth the 150 for 20 that you're paying Because like they have went up and cost. Oh, yeah Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they're that boundless ferocity ability is just Unbelievably good um It's it's it's shocking how good it is um So, you know, there you go. That's marauders and and the key here we need to keep in mind is remember They can be marked so they can have all the bonuses we just talked about right? So if they happen to be near a Corn hero then they're going to be on threes re-rolling ones Threes if it's the general right because plus one to wound neg one rend one damage If they're in nergal Then every six to wound is two damage and they're neg one to be shot in melee And many things we're going to talk about later because that's not the end of the sort of synergistic buffing right right So, uh, you know, I really truly hate cash marauders. I have no desire to paint cash marauders at all I've never liked them. I think they've all like I I despise the existing model Now you can replace them with things like you could just go buy untamed beasts or iron golems or blood reavers or Jean jargonites or and and all that or gore right gore actually you put a little different head on them Or even just use gore straight who cares they make great marauders So it's not like that just the model is tripping me up. I've just never liked hoardy Slaves the darkness, you know Like the idea that one of the best versions of this army is just to run 80 marauders Which it is like to be clear one of the best versions of this army is to run 80 or 120 marauders right it is um, and uh I like I have 30 converted reavers painted up I love my marauders. I don't know that I want to do 120 I just I just don't yeah sure and so um Like to me that's what's actually keeping me from the army is that like the strongest thing is not something I want to run Yeah, look, I didn't get into slaves to darkness To run the unwashed masses to run a bunch of knockoff vikings. Okay I I got into slaves to darkness because I want real steel. You know what I mean like You want the lords? Yeah. Yeah, I mean like this I want the thing that is chaos the image that set the tone Of gw that made it successful. It was built on the back of the chaos warrior The space marine is based on the chaos warrior and the The storm cast is based on the space marine right like it is the beating heart is the chaos warrior And like what I want is those heavy armored Red eyed Forces of darkness the steel clad legions. Yep. Descending upon the mortal realms Right, that's the fear of chaos not a bunch of unwashed hillbillies just running forward with axes yelling Like no, that's not interesting to me. If you like that army cool. I have no issue with it I'm not impugning your tastes super cool. I know a lot of people love them. I just heard you impugn their taste um But I I get it I get why people like it some people love the idea of like the chaos horde If that's your taste you have an army here that suits this well, right? Like the ravagers will do great with that That's hard. That's hard Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah um, okay, so Uh Shall we move to the next? Yeah, shall we move to the next dark city? Oh, yeah cabalists. Okay So let's talk about cabalists Uh cabalists is the magic focused one which obviously adoy there'd be a magic focused one, right? So battle traits uh binding rituals basically at the start of your hero phase You can pick one friendly cabalist wizard to perform one of the following rituals So you get one of these two rituals each turn Yep, uh, you can only do it with one and you can only pick one So ritual of sorceress might pick one friendly cabalist unit within three inches the wizard performing this binding ritual and roll a die On a three plus the ritual is successful and d three models from that unit are slain For each model that was slain by this ritual add one to the casting rolls made for friendly cabalist wizards until the end of that phase Uh, this is how how a heart should have been Like this like from the beginning the fact that this is limited to a d three You know like you should be sacrificing your own people and cutting their throats I mean unless you're like the dark elf sorceress or whatever, but um The like this is so limited one. You have to roll a three up to even trigger it, right? Yep. Yep. If you only get it on one person Exactly if you get the three up. No, you get the bonus to everybody Okay, if you roll the three up Then you have to kill d three models in a unit And then for each model that was slain you get to add one to the casting rolls So, you know, you're getting an average of plus two to cast Yeah, uh Fine. Okay, cool. And all your wizards get that which is nice, right? So if you have multiple wizards, they're all inheriting that bonus if the ritual is successful. So I mean Yes Yes Um, and it is free like that's another big difference. We can hollow part in this like that this is um I'm just doing this. I'm not spending a command point or whatever. Yeah, there's no command points. Yeah, yeah, sure But I I actually you're gonna take this snake one and you get the snake model back for free every turn Sure. It's also 10. It's a the splintered fang is also 10 models for 70 points as opposed to like the cypher lords Which are eight and the corpus cabal which is nine like whatever whatever you get model models and you get the snake back every turn Yeah, so my point is you're going to take something like that. Yeah And you're just gonna gut three of those dudes and like you don't care. They're literally there Uh, you're literally there to murder those guys. They just stand around one of your wizards and get like And great best use for them. I've seen you want to be part of the horde This is how you join chaos witness the cost right Uh, then your other ritual the ritual of corruption You can pick one friendly wizard within three inches roll a three up kill d3 models And then you pick one predatory endless spell within 12 inches that wizard If one model was slain you can move at three inches if two you can move at six if three you can move at nine They spoiled this in the preview thing So you can basically like move endless spells around extra movement Okay, that's cool. It's situational highly situational, but in certain situations, it could be quite good Yeah, like being able to shoot like a black sun, you know, nine inches is nice You mean a purple sun, but or do you mean like, uh, do you mean like sound garden has showed up and started playing black hole sun Black hole sun, uh sound garden like you see that was that stuff away. Yeah Uh, okay, cool Uh, and then finally magic cabalus wizards No, uh, an additional spell which is kind of cool in addition to any others. They know Uh crippling ruin casting value of seven is successfully cast pick one enemy unit within 18 And visible to them that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds In addition reduce the move characteristic of that unit by the number of mortal wounds inflicted inflicted by this spell Until your next hero phase. So okay, you can subtract two inches of movement from a unit Sometimes interesting if you're dealing with like move five Uh Units, you know, moving them to three is actually kind of a Thing that matters. Um, but like Not the biggest deal just okay fun. They have an extra spell fine enough Yep, um, it should be noted. This is the only one that, uh This is the only Tribe that doesn't have an ability to push the aura of chaos out to 18 inches Yep um There are they did this thing. I really hate in the command traits So I want to talk about mighty ritualist and blasphemous influence. Yeah It would be obvious to me that there would be a command trait for your general that says he can now ritual On a two-up Yep Right that would be and I looked when I first got the book and I was like, oh, yay This thing exists because I as soon as I read it. I was like, I bet there's a thing that gives me plus one Let me look across the page Oh, there is and then I read it and said when this general attempts to perform a ritual of sorceress might That ritual is successful on a two-plus. I was like, wait a minute. You're like womp womp womp Wait a minute. Oh, that's only one of the two rituals. That's right You have to pick only one of the rituals. You're actually going to get the bonus So when this general performs the ritual of sorceress might Yeah, yeah, exactly So when the general does it and only the general You can move that one ritual to a two-up Great Fantastic Wonderful That's what I wanted Okay Uh, and then he can and then this other super powerful ability that had to be limited to once per battle Once per battle when this general successfully performs a binding ritual for each model slain by that ritual you can heal one wound Once per game I can heal two wounds. Oh sign me up Uh, the command traits of the cabalists are straight garbage Which just makes me want to take bellicor as my general But he did better in like the spoilers. So Yep Um, maybe I mean, I don't know like he's pretty good in the magic casting one too. I would add right like he is a double cast Yeah, he is like I just don't like uh, go ahead. I don't I don't like the the city Like I I don't like the uh, like I'm normally like a magic person I'm not interested in this battalion or this the city this the cabalists. Okay. Let me tell you why I like the cabalists I think it's actually secret good tech. You ready? Okay. Yep every list. I've built with this army Contains at least two if not three spellcasters. Sure because their spells are very powerful Yep Yep, this is an army, you know, we'll go ahead And almost all of them are single casters and almost all of them are single casters Not all but almost all Yep, um, this is an army all about Uh synergy right and like getting units to actually punch at their weight for their point cost, right? Right. Yep Um getting your spells off is one of the most critical things you can do to be successful with this army Being able to teleport being able to And some of these casters by the way have bonkers spells like just on their war scroll I mean, we'll we'll talk about the casters here. I want to jump to some of their scrolls Getting their spells off is the one to me is is like an absolute recipe for success Okay, if I can just land my spells if I can make a unit not move if I can teleport my unit If I can have my sorcerer lord on mana core successfully wind of chaos, right? I will win the game Okay, and as you mentioned, these are all light touch enough Right that I'm not paying anything That like it's actually worth it. I look at it just as a supplementary benefit I'm not trying to synergize the whole force Right like I'm doing with the other ones, right? Yeah, I'm trying to add one more Utility piece to my swiss army knife, right? Does that make sense? Yep. Yep. Yep And this actually does that really well because if I have three casters And I've got a general who goes and ices two dudes and all those guys go plus two to cast Yep Suddenly my chances of getting off all those seven spells is really high Right. Yeah. I don't disagree with that. Yep. Yep Um So, yeah, I mean that's sort of I I do wish they had a your wizard may cast an additional spell artifact Yeah, like they don't for me like the thing that's just so egregious here is that they're all like one cast wizards Sure, and I just except for bellicor Like I just don't want to build my list around a bunch of one cast wizards Um, I get that I would point out you can ally in depending on how you're going several interesting two cast wizards Um, but you can't they don't get any of those benefits Yeah, that's correct. But I'm just saying they will be two cast wizards So like you can have multiple you can have double casters in there if you want Um, right, but they're not actually doing like they're not getting the plus two to cast or whatever sure because they're not a Cabalus wizard. I understand right because they're not a cabalus wizard. So I just I just really struggle with this with this allegiance Because of the not because of what it is I struggle with it because of what it's bonus like what's actually receiving these benefits. I get it Here's my argument. You ready? Yep Uh, I don't like what any of the other ones are doing at all Okay Like I don't want to summon dumb barbarians because I'm not painting a horde of barbarians I don't like the despoilers one in general. Even I think it's probably the most powerful We'll talk about it in a minute And I'm only using host of the ever chosen if I'm actually running arcane on which Whatever whatever that that is the most linear build in this whole thing Sure, sure, right? So why not run one that just gives me extra free bonuses. I'm not building the list around it tom That's the key. See you're always like the way you're thinking about it You're trying to make the whole list work as one unified push. I'm saying No, no, no, that's not what I want No, I understand like you want to you want a toolbox army And this is the most generic command trait or command a bit like the most generic city faction Benefit out of all of them that does not require anything of you other than to put uh, wizards in your army Sure, absolutely correct. Yep. That's right. Just like have some wizards and this does something You know, I hear that and yeah, and my argument is going to be I'd rather do the spoilers even in that world Because I'm going to include a demon prince Fair enough. Um, I mean, so let's let's just talk about casters real quick. Shall we like let's uh, yep Okay, so we've got the gaunt summoner, uh on disk of zinch who is a double caster and who is very fast But like very very fragile, right like super duper Duper fragile he's 260 points. Um, he can automatically summon a little unit onto the board Which is kind of cool. All right He does have a better save against a very small sliver of units Namely things that uh, don't fly and or not a monster Yep, and yeah, I mean and and he has a uh, he has a decent enough spell, right? Like he has a he has a hard He has a horde reducer spell Hard pass on that guy because of his expense to squishiness ratio Yeah, like five wounds on a six up save six for 206 wounds on a six up save for 280 points Nope 260, but sure I get it. You're right. He's very fragile. Okay fair enough Um, I'm just saying he is a double caster Now like in zinch like if somebody were to say one zinch, I'm I'm summoning a pink horse You know unit who's going to be its own caster and who's going to give me summoning points and blah blah blah Okay, I hear that sure Yeah, I agree. Yep. Like he's not a terrible choice in zinch, uh, but we're not in zinch. We're talking slaves to darkness and um Pass anyways continue fair enough Okay, I I still think it's like I think he's an interesting option. I don't think he's totally worthless at any rate Uh cast sorcerer lord on manticore. Uh, my actual favorite sorcerer my favorite caster in the book Um same cost 260, right? But he's obviously on a manticore 12 inch move 12 wounds four up save nice save for a caster, right? Yep His damage is like in melee is okay It's it's okay. If you give him a bunch of the buff damage He will do some damage He will average like five to seven damage if buffed with some of the abilities in here So you can't rely on him for a lot, but you know, he hits harder than like random wizard with stick So there you go. Yep. Uh, but actually put push him into things. Sure Um, he can be given any of the marks except corn obviously because he's a wizard um, yeah The but this guy I love everything about the suit. So again, he's 260 He does have eye of the gods. So if he does happen to kill, uh, You know heroes or monsters or whatever he does get to roll, which is cool Um in your hero phase and he and he has two really really good things One irracular visions in your hero phase, you can pick one friendly mortal slaves starting his unit Holy within 12 if you do so, you can re-roll all save rolls for attacks that target that unit Um, fantastic. Like that's absolutely great. Um, again another one of those places I mentioned the re-roll all saves So wonderful by the way, he can just do that to himself, right? Right and that's and he's not a bad bad option for that. Sure He also has a great spell. He has a single cast wizard But he has a spell called wind of chaos Again cast on a seven, but it's a unit within 18 Roll a number of dice equal to the number of models in that unit just you only have to tag the little itty bitty baby corner of the unit And uh, you roll a number of dice equal to that unit on a five They suffer one mortal wound on a six. They suffer d three mortals Oh Yeah, that that moved it back to horde killer. Yeah, that goes up to horde killer. You got it Um, I like that dude a lot a lot and I want to give that guy plus two to cast a lot Sure. Sure. No, I get that I do Uh, and then finally our other one big the other sort of stock standard one of note We should mention is the chaos sorcerer lord on foot He is my caster selection. Sure. He's I mean, he's great. He's 110 points Uh, you know five wounds four up save He whatever is garbo and melee like most casters He has the iraqular visions again ability same as the big guy And he has a spell called demonic power same name spell as he used to have He has a single cast wizard by the way Uh cast a value of six one friendly mortal slaves to dark unit holy within 18 Nice big range. You can re-roll hit and wound rolls for attacks made by that unit until your next hero phase which is a Really good spell Like that is a stupid good spell. Yeah demonic power. Um So do you know why? He is my caster pick Because he's cheap still packs the visions and has a really powerful buff. I mean, I don't Yeah, I mean Yes, but like to put a a fine point in this like visions Is a buff That is functionally Like a better mystic shield For free that you don't have to roll for sure And so he is as long as you're willing to always have him cast missed functionally a mystic shield. He's Functionally a double caster. Yeah, and bellicor is also a caster, but we're going to save him for the next one That's there's a reason I didn't talk bellicor yet. Yeah, I know that's fair Okay Of note, there are no demon princes other than bellicor that are wizards Correct So let's do that. Let's talk about disspoilers Tom i'm gonna let you take disspoilers because this is really yours like you're on about this when you like it Uh, do you have the the the rules in front of you where you can break them down? I do. Yeah, absolutely Um, so for disspoilers, uh, it is the more demon prince oriented. Um Uh Faction, I don't know how like I don't even know what we're calling these Uh clan um So what it does is uh sacrilegious might. Um, it friendly units with the same marco chaos keyword as your general Um, uh are holy within 18 are affected within 18 inches And so what that means is basically for your general your general's trait gets pushed out 18 inches instead of 12 Yep automatic in the thing, which is automatic In addition, uh, your general if he is a demon prince disspoilers demon prince. He gains a five up after safe Right So two really solid abilities right off the rip if you're if you're using a demon prince general Uh two very solid abilities that by the way would apply to bellicor Right, right. Um, yeah, he will broadcast an 18 inch Uh ever chosen or uh, I'm sorry, uh chaos undivided aura and he will gain a five up extra after safe Um, that's sacrilegious might uh, this is for the uh, okay, and so then uh, blessed Blessed by the anholy In your hero phrase, uh, you're gonna roll a dice for each Demon prince in your army and monster in your army on the battlefield on a four up that Demon prince or monster heals the d3 wounds. Unfortunately mutileth vortex beast only heals one Why I know because the mutex the vortex beast heals as well himself automatically He has his own is why that happened. Yeah, they're just afraid that he becomes a healing monster Yeah, look out for that 170 point bad monster. This is one of those things somebody should have got in there and struck through this text in editing There's no reason for that exception. That is extra text serving nothing stopping nothing Okay, the vortex beast has never been a good monster. I love it. I've used it in tournament armies because I think it's super fun Uh, and it just it does funny random stuff. It's a super timmy monster. It's completely unreliable Why? Strike this text. This is the kind of stuff that needs to get edited out not because it's broken or powerful just because it's unnecessary Yes That it's unnecessary like limitations and minutia. It's unnecessary complicated complexity Yes, uh regardless, uh, let me just say like this is a nice hidden benny Like that a lot of people like when they're evaluating this I don't know that they fully like because this applies to all monsters um your manticore writers um a bunch of your random like foot guys Of like the the sphere ranks. I believe is also a monster. Yes. He has the sphere ranks is a monster. Yep That is correct. Um And so like there's just some interesting like, uh, your crusher your formoid crusher if you were Yep, also monster Like it just it touches a lot of things that you may not anticipate. Let me say it that way Sure. Um, and so I I like it like I'm a I am a fan of that um And uh, obviously like this adds more utility to bellicor Like bellicor is good. What's better bellicor that has a chance of self-healing. Um Like I am a fan of that Interestingly though, it does not touch the castle lord on karkadrak. Um, which makes me a monster. Yeah But he's already has a chance to heal uh heal a mortal wind or not mortal wind Here he has a chance to just heal a d3 anyways Or well, like if he's uh, if he's killing things and so that that might be too much But regardless, uh, I am a fan of that ability because again, we can push bellicor to like, uh, you know High heavens and back And and that's just fine. But god forbid the mutilith vortex beast healed two d3 wounds Totally totally. Um, and then finally twisted dominion. Yeah, you want to stop with the foreplay and get to twisted dominion the thing We all actually are here for Okay, sure. Uh, so if a friendly, let me I'm going to be very careful about how I read this Because I'm going to tease out a combo here in a minute if a friendly to spoilers demon prince finishes a move Within six inches of a terrain feature pause for emphasis. Yes. Yeah Finishes a move notice no qualifications on a move You can give a terrain feature the pitch black and nightmare chasm scenery rules Until your next hero phase to spoilers demon Demon princes and to spoilers monsters are unaffected by the scenery rules So you can like okay. So what these two things do pitch black is Models that are not visible. Uh, if an imaginary line one millimeter wide draw between them passes more than one inch of terrain piece um Over more than one inch of this train feature. Uh, so it cuts line of sight Um for those inside notice that like if it's a piece of train that you can put the monster on You can hide the monster inside the terrain piece or the demon prince He can see out. I can't see him He can see out like bellicorps can go hide in a terrain piece and cast out free cast out without being able to be attacked Yep or targeted Or like if you had a demon prince that had a really good command ability He could hide there and just use his command ability Yep Um, and then the other thing it does at the start of the hero phase rolled ice for uh, this train feature on a six Units within one inch take a d3 mortals. Um Who cares erase that text doesn't matter. It could be the ipsum lorem text All that matters is that pitch black thing The fact that you can set your demon princes and monsters and other things by the way if you Given a certain magic guy that we're going to talk about in a moment Uh into terrain where they can just free cast and free, you know work out of and nobody can see them to target them because The vast majority of spells and range attacks require line of sight Yep, uh is ungodly powerful Right. Yeah, and notice that the the movement is Within six inches and it's just a move and so it's not like and this doesn't take a commanding point Right. Okay. This is every time you move So when your guy moves he can turn something pitch black when you turn when he can turn something pitch black when he piles in He can turn something pitch black And this is every demon prince you have every round Yeah, doing this every every piece of the board is normal If they're near it it is pitch black Yeah, and it has a chance of if kicking out mortals for nearby units um, and uh I I'm gonna just move on to the traits because if that wasn't egregious enough. Let me say that sure Um, I'm not gonna read anything but the only one that matters here the only one that matters That's right because hold on tom. Let me read the one that doesn't matter Because when you're looking through this list, you might look at distorting miasma and go Oh, you can give a terrain feature the pitch black and nightmare chasm scenery rules if this general this is a command Right obviously, um finishes a move within nine inches of it You go, okay, that's actually you know a bit of a difference there By the way, all the command traits are for the spoilers demon princes only, right? Yeah, yeah, okay, so obviously you can't give these to old bellicor. You got to pick a normal demon prince, but You read that and you go, okay, that's kind of cool. That's neat. I can extend that range out to nine inches from six That's that's a difference and then you read the one right below it and you go With everything you've just said you go. Oh never mind because read the only command trait worth taking Go ahead. So peregrina ruin says that after setup is complete. But before the first battle round begins roll a d3 Uh a d3 friendly to spoilers units can move up to five inches And you go, okay, so you get like so like For some they go. Well, what's the big deal? Who cares d3? Let's say two units get to move five inches before the game starts two units get to move five inches So on one hand on some objectives, it's going to like help screen objectives, right or push Push a You know a bubble out so that your main unit's like it makes it much harder to get into your main unit Push your shaft walls out farther. Yep. Yep. And in some armies, that's going to be a really big deal Right because what it lets you do is it like like let's that pre move We've talked about this before with like archers and other things that have always had this pre move, you know It's effective But actually that's not what's powerful here No, what's powerful is the fact that you can make a d3 of your demon princes move pre game Move them into terrain pieces and immediately block line of sight before the game begins Yep So whether you go first or not is irrelevant because you've already turned some number of pieces of terrain pitch black And stuck your demon princes inside and now they're untouchable Even if even if the other player has the first turn So if they're playing, you know, like ko they're they're going to assassinate them. No, they're not they can't touch the demon princes Yep Because it doesn't matter if they out drop you you're still going to move your demon princes into the but into the terrain and cut off all line of sight Yep Um It's really good. It is really good. Um, you can also take a magic item out of this called, uh, the realm warpers twist rune where friendly dispoilers units wholly within 12 of the bear are unaffected by the pitch black and nightmare chasm rules which which is deep which is neat. So other units besides your Uh, demon princes and monsters, uh, can see through it, which okay Cool, the funny thing is is that like that's not what really grabs my attention No, I'm sure it's not because there are two others that actually grab my attention out here What's the one I'm just saying like it's a neat thing I don't know where it would really matter, but it is neat that you can do that What are the what's what grabs your attention because I know, uh I know why you would say so Doom you can turn one charge the demon princes, but if the terrain is in their Their zone like they could have screened it or heaven forbid they move both They they what if they deploy in the terrain? They they move one unit to screen the demon princes and then have the other Demon prints turn the terrain into line of sight cut. Yeah What we're specifically talking about when you say they can't be touched is we mean by like magic Most of which requires line of sight and shooting which requires line of sight You can still charge a thing. You can't see and go fight it So like somebody could go beat them up in melee, but you have to get a unit in there Which is a lot bigger of an ask sure Yeah, we're just saying like it if you're looking at a world where that alpha striking magic will or shooting will be possible Um, which is very like we just mentioned by the way like, you know the top of the show that there is this box That coming out that contains ko and zeech Right both of which seem like that's what they're going to do is like be able to drop some hot hot heat on you at at the top of one and Nope, this guy says no Popa no and for me like like I think about this obviously from the perspective of nergal because nergal's like what I have and that's what I would run and like I'm gonna be projecting bubbles around my demon princes like my general is gonna protect a neg one to hit bubble and the demon princes can be um I can Uh, are my it can be a lookout sword right or no Uh, they're they're monsters They are monsters. Oh, yeah No, they're not. No, they're not demon princes or not monsters. There it is. I didn't think they work Yeah, so demon princes are not monsters, which is why it doesn't just say chaos monsters Chaos monsters or yeah, you're right. You're right. Um, which means that like in nergal like all of my guys If I came with an 18 of the general are gonna be negative to hit shooting Sure, so there's that as well um And then finally so the two items uh the first and the foremost the one that's gonna, you know grab most people's attention is uh Just gain before the battle on it starts a d3 extra command points start of the game. Yep Yep diabolical that's kind of good Uh, you know a free d3 command points for an item. I'll take that Uh, and then depending on your build, uh, the helm of many eyes that grants the bearer and their mount. Um The start uh at the uh the start They they they gain always strikes first. Yes. Yeah, if they charge if they charge right Yep, which is decent. It's not bad. No, it's not bad. It's decent Uh, again pretty powerful on like say, uh, the appropriate chaos lord on man's core or Uh, a chaos lord on carcadrack or something like that. Yeah. Yeah, it's not terrible Given that guy obviously demon princes already have asf. So there's no purpose there, but um, right Uh, but it's cool Although ironically if you did have that magic item on a demon prince You could end up in situations where it's actually beneficial given the thing we talked about but hopefully that all gets cleaned up soon Um, so let's talk about demon princes and bellicor shall we? Uh, because they're the sort of obvious next thing to talk about. Let's start with the basic demon prince Yeah, I like that. Yeah. I mean, he's good. I am kind of sad that he, um That he lost his ability to be a caster in any way. That's kind of unfortunate Um, but whatever that's fine 210 points. Obviously, he's a leader 12 inch move. Uh, you know, he flies because he's got wings and stuff and, uh 12 inch move eight wounds base three up save which is awesome. I love that he moved to the three at base save Yep, he's not a monster. So he gets terrain if he's in it, uh, can take, uh, a mark Cannot take a mark of undivided Can only take corn, zinch, nergal, or slanesh. The only undivided demon prince is bellicor So that's true. There you go. Um They get plus what like they have a decent selection of a melee profile Which looks basically like it used to hasn't changed that much Well, they also always strikes first. So it's a decent profile with always strikes first Correct. No, I was just saying like their axe or sword plus talons, you know, it's more or less the same It's always been and yes, they get plus one to hit if they charged Um, and you know, their weapons do different things. It's fine. Whatever And they all and they have asf built into them like they do always strikes first And then most importantly, so let's get into it. Tom. Here we go Demon princes have moved from sometimes a caster to always commanders They are your commanders as such they have a command ability namely one for each mark Right. Yep. You must give them a mark and it must be one of the four gods demon princes Are always marked to one of the four gods. So here we go Blood slate ground we start with corn Uses command ability in your hero phase if they have a corn keyword if you do until your next hero phase Run and charge rolls made for enemy units within 18 inches of this model are halved Whoa So that's uh pretty pretty good Yeah Yeah, uh, that's a strong one now, you know, uh It doesn't have normal move, but it does have charges and having charges makes a huge deal mathematically Having charges is like One of the most powerful abilities in the game Yes, because if they don't have a flat bonus to counteract that like if they're not under the effect of cogs Or something you will charge three inches on average. Correct Yep Yep, it turns like that seven inch charge into basically impossible Right. Yep. Um, this guy was part of my how to make you have the worst experience ever in the world. Um, all right Our cane influence the zinch ability You can use this command ability at the start of your hero phase if you do pick one friendly slaves to darkness wizard Holy within 12 add one to casting rolls for that unit Oh, it's cute. That's so awful So it's so cute you use he's not a caster so he can't pick himself And you get to spend a command point to pick one wizard to give them plus one to cast Way to go zinch way to go. I hope you got better stuff coming in your own book And it's not even like any wizard. It's a like any zinch wizard. It's a slaves to darkness wizard I know so like in a Like in a zinch Book like a legion's list. He's like not good Like, you know, if you could do that plus one to like a like a bird if it was an aura if it was the actual Yeah, yeah, it's just so bad Again pointing towards zinch being the worst because there's one more time we're going to talk about zinch being bad Uh, okay, it's so cute. It is cute. Uh, you ready to talk about the most broken thing in the book tom I don't know you're talking about sure. Let's talk about bloated blessings Oi shinoi, uh, the thing that we know is going to be FAQed because there's no way it couldn't be the only question is how How mathematically this ability cannot exist in the game. No, this is this would become the this is this is Broke and you know, I'm pretty you know, I'm generally hesitant to use that ability You use language of bent for things like hearth garb berserkers at 400 Correct. This is like saying 20 hearth garb berserkers for 200 points. Right. This is straight broken. Here we go It will be changed bet on it. How don't know You can use this command ability at the start of your hero phase if they've got the nergal keyword if you do Pick one friendly slaves to darkness nergal unit wholly within 12 inches of this model Until your next hero phase if the unmodified hit roll for an attack that targets that unit is six The attacking unit suffers d3 immortal wounds after all of its attacks have been resolved What this means let's go ahead and break this down because it's it's true brokenness is not immediately apparent right one It works on all types of attacks. So I the demon prince pick a unit. I say that unit Anytime someone rolls a six to hit against you that unit suffers d6 mortal wounds So if I attack you sorry d3, yeah So if if 20 attacks go against that unit and they roll four sixes, that's 43 mortal wounds shooting Or may lack eight mortal wounds from 20 attacks. Correct Broken point number one. It works in shooting And by the way, none of those attacks actually have to hit or like actually have to Resolve or do anything. Yeah. Yeah, it could be in here like cast warriors who were on a three up re-rollable save With a five after save and whatever the cast warriors could take all the attacks Take no damage and then kick back like 8 16 30 mortal wounds. Sure. So step one that's it works on shooting and melee Step two it's stackable as it's currently phrased So you can keep layering this ability on them And it will keep triggering additional d3s for every six they roll to hit So now those four sixes let's say you take that commander or that artifact We just talked about that gives you d3 extra command points. You got three you got three hot. You rolled well You got three hot command points burning in your pocket right And so you're like well triple tap this unit of 40 marauders That I know is going to make the charge by the way Who are themselves on a four up charge that I'm going to just literally throw at the enemy this round I'm just going to throw these 40 marauders on a four up save Wildly into combat and I'm going to triple tap them with this And I'm going to go right down your line and engage your whole army and make every unit you have fight okay Right and chances are I will force because you can't choose not to attack. I will make your whole army attack this unit of marauders who could potentially be on a It could potentially be on like um Yeah, I will we'll we'll discuss what's going on in the comments right now later clearly right now it triggers on everything I've seen arguments to say it only triggers once it doesn't right now it triggers every time Or at least it would need to be faq either way. I don't care that's one very strong reading Is that it triggers this way? I don't disagree with the potential That our our viewer jizz is right that like they'll retcon it to just be one single d3 And not a ton of d3s. That could be one way to fix it. I completely agree And and like that might be how they end up give it what they intended Based on the wording, but that isn't what it says. So so by the way, uh, heart piece piercer shield as an example Uh, like heart renders, you know, the bladed shields from uh from daughter's gain All of them have the identical wording and all of them have been ruled to kick back all mortals on all sixes Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah But so we have examples of this that have been in the meta Yeah, much later in the process being on sixes. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's going to get faq. I'm just explaining why it's broke Is a joke right now So if I in that situation, I just shoved my whole this unit of 40 marauders all the way down your line I'm going to make every unit attack them. They might be on four up Rerolling something five up after save whatever who cares your whole army is going to attack and every six that your whole army rolls Is going to kick back 3d3 mortals into them Fantastic Like this would this is this is a nuclear option if it if it remained as it's printed, right? Yep, um, it would simply become like the instantaneous pick Period So it has to be mixed. It's the brilliant thing in the book yeah, like a block of of Like 20 hearthgar berserkers Are going to do about as much damage to like a chaos warrior unit as they're going to take to themselves From this thing Like and and hearthguard are your best bet because they have a four up after save to shake those morals. Sure I mean it it melds things like skeletons like skeletons or Doc or any of those things just auto die. Yeah most units just auto die when they hit this. Yes. Yeah Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah So like let's go ahead and get that fixed and then we can all move on with our lives. Okay, great So that's why that's horribly broken and needs to be fixed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just It's so powerful It's so powerful. Um, and it just can't stay as it is Uh The and and you know ghost one said but if it was reverted to a single d3, wouldn't it be just bad Yeah, maybe like I don't know man. It would be 10 different ways it can be fixed Maybe it should be bad like this each one's bad. Maybe this one could be bad, too Right. Well, that's the point like I would never spend a command point for the possibility of a d3 mortals Because that's what you're asking Because people can just choose not to attack that unit or they might not roll sixes. Well, again, you're always shoving This unit into them Like that's the play here because the answer is like just would attack that unit. Oh, no, no, no I'm not giving you that choice Right, right. But what I'm saying is this is like boy, you're You're you're putting a lot of conditionals into the ability to do a d3 mortals Yeah, I understand that I don't know what the right answer is to fix it and I don't care. Just fix it somehow Like I so if I were like I'm not balancing this I'm not like I have no sway on on these types of decisions or any types of decisions fact But if I were to fix this I would make it non stackable May lay only And kick back one mortal per natural six Which is still very powerful, which is still very powerful But it's not game breaking powerful. It would still make the best one Yes, but it's still you're right. It would make it all of the best one, but it's not It's not I would say it's not even Bent because again the unit has to be wholly within 12 of the demon prince. I get it that demon prince can't hide In terrain if the unit that he's buffing with this has to be wholly within 12 I don't know about that that that very much depends on the train on the table And the other thing that I would do is I would make it as a sigil just observed I would make it you trigger it trigger it at the beginning of the combat phase Then it lasts for that combat phase right now It lasts for like a turn and a half if you get doubled sure Which is your best case scenario? You just want that to happen when you've got You know when you've got this huge block of of marauders or cast warriors into them You're welcoming the double turn. Yes, please continue to kill yourself on my army at no cost to me Ha ha ha ha ha, you know at any rate Uh revel in agony, which is the slanesh one is so bad and so dumb and so convoluted. I'm not even gonna read it because it just Like I'm serious. It's just the worst like it makes No, we're not we're not reading it. Don't worry about it. You'll never use it There you go. That's the answer So uh, even if you love slanish It's just not good uh yeah so that's regular demon princes you want to talk about bellicor real quick since while we're on the D and where we're on the uh by the way if they did nerf it to bad like the ner the nergal one uh this unit needs to drop down to like 160 i i disagree highly but it's okay we can like look man i'm playing an islanesh mark or or uh you know our zinch mark army i don't get a discount okay for having my crappy not functional marks or command abilities so you know just because like it's whatever whatever sure um like he's a good hero with a with a decent damage potential and interesting abilities especially when he's running to spoilers so i think he's just fine uh mr turn all the terrain on this on the the table into a line of sight blocking no he's doing just fine just fine okay bellicor bellicor is marked undivided automatically which is interesting now there's a couple units that are marked undivided automatically uh and he's one of them uh he is a 12 inch move eight wounds four up save but uh so like he has one more save but he is uh ethereal basically he has shadow form which makes him ethereal which is cool uh so that's awesome nope siri thought i was talking to her i must have said something like that uh oh because i said ethereal serious or oh yeah it's funny seriously uh the uh he and then most importantly as i said he has a two cast wizard his spell is okay but you're taking bellicor for one ability tom would you like to read out one of the most powerful abilities that's ever been printed on a war scroll namely a dark master yeah i i i i know this because i i used to run this my first he used to run it when it had a worst percentage chance right right like it just got better well like i've been a i've been a fan of bellicor since i painted the army that you see the war shrine for um because he was in that list so here's what dark master does um once for battle so you choose a uh a unit that is before the battle around begins you choose a unit that is on the battlefield very important by the way um once for battle at the start of the enemy hero phase you could reveal which unit you picked until the next hero phase your opponent must roll dice each time that unit attempts to cast a spell move which would include every type of move charge or attack with any weapons it is armed with on a one to four that unit can do nothing on a five plus it acts as normal and so basically you have a 66 chance of doing nothing anytime you want to do something with that unit that's not a command ability for one full battle round for new for one full turn for one full turn right until your next hero phase yes right um could be longer because it's until your next hero phase so again right so like you can know when they're going to double you this becomes really good yeah if you're under the threat of being doubled like at the top of your turn if you're already in combat with a unit right yeah that's when you reveal it because then for them to attack you that round they've got to roll yep right well on your turn they've got to roll yep like uh and then if they double you on and you like let's say you just retreat away right if they double you then on their turn they've got to roll again right yeah I mean the big the big uh the big no no here the the significant aspect to this is um like the counter to this if everybody says well this is the most broken ability in the world and it is really good don't don't misunderstand me uh it's that you can like for your strategic units against bellicor uh if you have the ability to not put them on the battlefield at the beginning don't right because then he they can't be targeted right like that's actually a viable counter so for my fire slayer brethren uh those are the units that get deep struck that game tunnel them earth guard yeah yeah exactly those earth guard they're all tunneling at the start of the game so that bellicor can't target them or your night haunt or your uh storm cast or your anybody can set off off table put your most valuable things off table and bellicor can't touch them right yep so that's a great way there there's your there's your uh there's your free tip for the day um he was another component of my the worst army you've ever played against army right right because just the frustration of like you lock them in place with the spell and then they get free of that and then you bellicor them and they can't move again like just just the nightmare of having one of your units sit there and literally do nothing for three turns out of the game or something would just be crippling crippling if that's their main you would be infuriating and then it would be crippling yeah i mean not only would you you lose you would lose and be ungodly frustrated so yay i mean it does sound like a fun list um but uh yeah i mean and bellicor like on top of that he's a double caster he's a demon prince so he gets all the demon print stuff um he's ethereal which is really curious um he has a chance of healing a little bit but not well um i'm sad that his ren went down to minus one instead of minus two sure uh if he has he used to be a ren two on his main weapon which was uh sexy as all get out um now one uh hurts but you know that's the cost to do in business um am i missing it oh and i get he's a double caster with his spell not being too shabby it's okay yeah again it's fine the thedrus skullscrier the war the um the like uh underworlds warband caster has the same spell sure so kind of interesting thing you can get it with her for 130 or something like that 150 i don't remember exactly how much or two i mean it's a good spell like functionally it's a hermdar bunker yeah like you choose something and then that thing you know so like it's it's not bad don't let anybody tell you it's bad it's not yep all right let's talk about the host of the ever chosen okay all right so this is archaeons bag right like if you're playing archaeon you're often going to look here although not always but like i would argue that he can be pretty good into spoilers as well by the by uh it's like because he doesn't need to be your general he needs to be your general and host of the ever chosen to do all this stuff but all the normal stuff on his worst role he doesn't really care if he's your general or not although it's weird to have the lord of the ever chosen playing second fiddle i mean i think it's kind of funny honestly but that's just me uh okay oh uh somebody asked does his ability work for each cast or once for all spells um it's each cast each time you do that thing yeah correct yep it's really good it's really good okay sorry i just had to fix something in the chat here no worries okay uh all right so um great uh so the um let's talk about the host of the ever chosen so yeah uh if archaeon is your general and on the battlefield friendly host of the ever chosen units are affected by his aura of chaos within 18 inches so again like the spoilers he can broadcast an 18 inch uh okay great um fearless in his presence nobody in your army takes battle shock tests it doesn't matter you're going to have like not many models so it's probably not super relevant uh but that's fine uh will of the ever chosen in your hero phase if archaeon is your general on the battlefield you can pick one enemy unit on the battlefield if you do so you can reroll hit and womb rolls of one for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly host of the ever chosen units the target that unit until your next hero phase okay cool that's fine um it's not bad like again there are lots of there are different ways to get reroll hits and wounds but of one uh you know including like his cornora would already automatically be passing this out but notably he can't pick somebody anywhere so like he can like sort of pick somebody in the opposite side of the battlefield it's not within his aura if you've got a unit of air and guard chasing them down so it's fine and then of course dark prophecy you can use this command ability at the start of your hero phase if archaeon is your general and on the battlefield if you do so roll a die and keep the result hidden from your opponent at the start of the next battle round before players determine who has the first turn you can reveal the result on a one to three your opponent must take the first turn of that battle round on a four through six you must take the first battle round of that uh you can reveal it so you don't have to take it um I played archaeon with this uh ability and I will say it was very potent it kept us from being double turned ever which was nice um you know the answer to this is very simple as to how you do this I just literally took a cup roll a die in it and then set the cup to the side yep and just you know there it is it's over there I'm not here it's not on the table I just set to the side and then I just waited until it was time to reveal it and then I would just show it to the opponent like clearly you saw me roll it and then set it to the side and I never touched it it's sitting in a cup nobody can screw with it um it was a pretty easy fix it required you know a two cent plastic cup to solve the problem of how to do this in a in a fair way so I'm not sure it's like the biggest deal that people have been making of it but it's cool it's cool ability um notably you also like obviously you're incentivized to have Varengard in an in an army with Archeon because you also get the eight circles of the Varengard where like you can pick a circle for all of your Varengard units I'm not going to all eight of them uh the two that matter are the sixth circle which is plus one damage when you charge and the eighth circle which is they can fly so okay cool yep that's fine I mean the problem with this army is it's like it is thin right you are very very thin when you push in Archeon is at his point cost I mean he ain't he ain't cheap son 800 points no he doesn't work but he's but he's not cheap like he's a hammer now he will hit pretty hard um yeah yeah I would say that like I think that there's some lists here that I think can be semi-competitive no I agree I mean he does a lot right like a lot he moves far he has a ton of wounds he's tough as a coffin nail um his like monster head abilities are all actually good now um and he can make he gives your units death frenzy with through his command ability right so you know all good he's also a two-cast wizard um like I mean he does everything he is that's what you want him to yeah he is the lord of the apocalypse and his swords rend two now yay yeah um he stole bellicors because like bellicord couldn't be the averages and and he had to so yeah I mean so let's talk about some funny things with Archeon uh and the Varengard so in my mind Archeon never goes out alone who is Archeon's constant uh friend tom who must Archeon have on the battlefield with him uh the chaos the chaos sorcerer or the chaos lord gimp correct the chaos lord gimp on foot he's got to bring out the gimp got to have him behind him just following him along let's talk about why the regular chaos lord on foot uh seven wounds for up save could take any of the marks of course as normal has his old demon bound weapon which does some fun stuff there you go great but most importantly the chaos lord on foot has spurred by the gods you can use this command ability at the start of the combat base if you do so pick one friendly mortal slaves the darkness unit which by the way Archeon is because he is both mortal and demon uh wholly within 12 of a friendly model with this command ability after that unit has fought in that phase for the first time when it is your turn to pick a unit to fight with later in the same phase that unit can be selected to fight for a second time if it's within three inches of any enemy units the same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per turn fantastic wonderful Archeon swinging once is good Archeon swinging twice is like real hammering if you're going to pay 800 points get the most out of him yes to have him swing once pay uh 910 have him swing twice yeah absolutely i would point out this guy is real good in corn by the by if you take the corn aura because he goes to two up re-rolling ones for everything and wounds on twos for basically like all of his attacks so that's pretty yeah i mean yes although i will say i think i like him better and nergal of course you would because of what the extra damage tick uh no no no no uh because he actually gets lookouts or functionally oh with that one to be hit with shooting attacks yeah so yeah like he's forcing re-rolls of sixes natural sixes correct and he has neg one to hit and so he actually moves the like the window that he can be shot in like into a really small window yeah sure uh hold on i want to finish up something about the the the double pilot thing which is the slayer of kings because i'm going to read the slayer of kings text exactly because it's relevant yeah if the unmodified wound roll for two attacks that target the same enemy hero no longer monsters just heroes but obviously hero monsters are still good go yeah in the same phase phase with the slayer of kings is six that hero is slain so if you get him piling in twice and you get one six to wound on the first pile in and one six to wound on the second pile in zip boom you're done slayed son yeah correct as long as they're both within the same phase so uh real good real good there yeah uh can we talk about war shrines now yeah i want to i want to get into all the things that can buff him and sort of the chaos lord on foot was a really good one to talk about and now i think is also a great time to talk about chaos war shrines which i think are like one of the strongest things in the army like that is a as a utility piece uh at um at 170 points for your war shrine it is a i think extremely worthwhile investment so i think it's the most economical buff piece in the army agree and that's and that's and that means a lot when you're competing with the sorcerer lord on foot yep chaos war shrine 12 wounds four up save 170 points starts an eight inch move obviously just walks around slowly yep um can be given any of the marks which is relevant even corn yep um because it's not a spellcaster it is a prayer uh and it has a specific first of all it's still broadcast it's six up feel no pain to everybody within 18 inches and then that decreases as it gets wounded so that's cool um and then it has a specific prayer it can do all the prayers trigger on a uh three up basically you can make a prayer you pick one friendly mortal slaves to darkness unit holy within 18 so it's got a nice big it's got a nice big range i actually found basically no problem keeping people in range of this in the games i've played can i actually highlight something that you said like that i mean you didn't say it exactly but i i don't want to gloss over this because this is a piece of utility that i don't want people to miss okay when you choose the mark for the war shrine the prayer is not determined correct so what that means is that every war shrine can do any of the five prayers right and the effect of the prayer is based on the unit it is buffing it is not based on the war shrine right so when you when you pray with the war shrine and and uh and like the buff can hit any unit that augmented effect is based on their mark yep and so like um every unit can benefit from the favor of corn and get reroll charge rolls is but it's only corn rolls get the added effect correct and so actually what you're doing is you're choosing from one of five buffs yep that all have augmented effects on certain marks yep and you choose this every single turn that's what i found was i rotated a lot with my war shrine yes that's a really really big deal yeah and the answer is by the way yes you cannot dispel a prayer it's just a prayer on a three up it happens nothing anybody can do about it all right so let's talk through them real quick yeah favor of corn and i'm going to divide these all into basic they apply to any unit you target with and specific they have to have the mark to get it okay so here we go corn basic reroll charge rolls you just mentioned it specific if they which they get both if they're specific right yep um you can reroll hit rolls for attacks made with melee weapons until you're next to your face yep all right good ability uh strong continuing the legacy of corn being decent and strong yep favor of zeech you can reroll save rolls so remember the aura of chaos that gave a a reroll ones here's a better version of that this is reroll all saves like both of the iraqular visions we just mentioned like chaos warriors themselves have on their scroll automatically if you have 10 or more models yep so okay who cares fine good decent nice whatever rerolling all saves is good um in addition if that unit has the zeech keyword you get a four up against spells and endless spells so now if you're in the aura of chaos and let's say you're archaeon i actually had this situation happen i used the prayer on archaeon and he was marked he was he had chosen zeech right so and he himself has his own four up against spells and the spells so against spells and the spells he was four up four up five up just ignore just to ignore completely ignore the spell or spell effect and uh i managed to fail that as many times equally as i succeeded on it which doesn't mathematically make any sense but it happened still funny yeah it's it's okay is what i'll say again depends largely on the meta if zeech comes roaring in and magic is just amazing if magic ends up dominating in the meta okay the the value of this goes up undoubtedly same thing we said by the way we needed bone daddies and like null myriad right as their thing like the quality of null myriad depends entirely on the meta nergal you can reroll wound rolls for attacks made by melee weapons nergal specific which is kind of good for archaeon sure who's fishing for sixes who's fishing for sixes and nergal specific if it if the unit has the nergal keyword add one to save rolls for attack that except for things that attack that unit i'm sorry what uh plus one we were talking we were talking about uh archaeon um and uh cast were shrines are adding one to save on archaeon yeah sure put him on a two up absolutely yeah puts him on a two up you know like neg one to hit from shooting um you know like suddenly he becomes a really really really hard piece to remove yep uh absolutely uh the silenesh one is hot garbo um you can reroll charge rolls for that unit if they're silenesh marked you don't take battle shock test for them whoodly who hot garbage on a stick and then the favor of chaos undivided which i actually quite like on anything it's actually my favorite sort of all around buff because it i don't need the undivided word to do the good thing favor of chaos basic ability you can reroll all hit and wound rolls for attacks made by that unit until your next hero phase uh by the way shooting and melee not that it's relevant that much but it is true watch out for those javelin uh horsemen sure i mean there's not a lot of shooting attacks but the point is just it it is a thing uh and then in addition if they're undivided you can reroll charge rolls which okay neat neat bonus cool but the reroll all hit and wound i found myself alternating between like kind of three different things namely zinch uh nergal and chaos undivided when i was using it so sure there you go yep yep it's so good oh there you go hey the red wizards in the chat and uh red wizard is who i mentioned earlier for the save rc thing everybody give him a shout out i his his uh his baby was born on christmas morning so there you go that is amazing i knew i i i don't want to overshare but i know he was he wasn't expecting the child for a couple weeks and then but babies do what babies do and i guess decided to give you a bonus christmas present so uh congratulations uh red wizard congratulations kirk that's absolutely wonderful blessings and uh i'm so glad to hear everyone's doing well um all the best my friend and uh like i said earlier with that if people in the comments there will be a link for save rc where you can go to kirk and you can pick up some of his models to help him make sure that his dog also gets the the treatment it needs as his family is obviously going to be very stressed by having a new baby so it's a it's a wonderful thing so their original child can be well taken care of uh so very good okay uh and if he's watching the show in real time he won't hear me shout him out for like another hour so that's fine thank you uh but the worst cryer or the worst right sorry is just it's so good right like it's a great nice piece and let's point out that like the damage all went up to two yeah yeah it's actually like it can do okay against weaker units in melee i actually was attacking stuff and i was like yeah it's all right like i got charged by a hurricane or something and somebody was trying to pin me and i beat the rap and that thing yeah smash it down yeah you know like if you hit this with the undivided prayer re-roll hits and wounds yeah uh it can do some work yeah because you can try it yourself yeah uh the other half of the that i don't know that we mentioned is that he gives a uh six up after save to all i mentioned it to you okay so like he also is giving he's just free for free handing out an after save yep in a bubble around it like which is good like that that's still good yeah free damage prevention still good so the other big part of the host of the ever chosen is the varingard and varingard or one of those units i think needs to come down just slightly like it's nice to have them at 300 but i think they probably need to be like 290 280 oh yeah they're very hard to get their damage out of you get 15 wounds for like 300 points that's just not a good wound to hit ratio and them getting their actual like getting the actual work out of varingard i have found to be very difficult they need to be like in an aura they need to be like buffed by the war shrine right like you have to push buffs onto them because if they don't get all the buffs and if our kion's not on the table and you know and they're not on the charge or something like it's very hard to get 300 points worth of work out of them and not only that like on the numbers similarly buffed uh chaos knights are going to put out similar numbers well and they're not that far off yes similar right if if if all buffs are equal right yeah yeah like similar buffs chaos knights because you have five models you know with like more lances are going to put out on average similar damage for 180 points and even then most would say that that chaos knights are a little bit overcosted so like uh varingard are struggling for me even with their bonus like effect like their bonus free whatever um yeah so let's talk battalions because i want to get into a bunch of the units we haven't mentioned yet the real like notice we haven't mentioned any of the core stuff of what we would traditionally think of as chaos like warriors and knights um i want to get into kind of a unit review but i want to talk battalions first because they're relevant they're really relevant in this quite relevant in fact so there are three let's call it basic battalions is that fair to call them that yeah um the godsworn champions of ruin which is like your uh your melee foot dude list basically right okay i mean you could have marauder horsemen for the most part it's your foot people right your chosen your uh your knights your warriors your marauders and your marauder horsemen like they are what i would call core army yeah yeah that's fine i accept that and then you have only foot but yes it's your whole army now what i will say is like most of these can be one drop battalions if you so choose to build this way but then you only have like one hero which is unusual um i mean you could you could build your unit your army that way but that would be very strange so but this could be like all of your army except your other heroes that's entirely possible yep yep because you also get one hero which is one unit chosen for the flying list cast lord bold so any of the people who have cast lord bold um cast sorcerer lord bold exalted hero of cast ogre ogroid miramadan which i actually love that he shows up here because most of the time these weirdo heroes don't actually show up in any of the battalions but he does right um the slaves of darkness demon prince dark oath war queen and dark oath chieftain which is cool like that's a great list of a lot of your heroes that you're going to want to run right i agree um and in your hero phase you can pick one hero from this battalion that is within three inches of an enemy unit if you do they want to fight right yeah you're going to pick the one hero and they can fight pretty good for like the so our example here let's go to the cast lord we haven't talked about yet namely uh mr cast lord on carcadrack who counts for this and as the cast lord thing i think he's he's drawn a lot of heat from some people like some reviewers or you know some folks who have not felt like he lives up to his points i like that guy i like him too i'm i'm in for this dude uh 250 points this is the guy in the in the in this thing and uh getting started box yeah it's that guy up front there oops sorry it's that dude there on the worm is who we're talking about sweet model yeah nine inch move nine wounds three up save base i like everything i'm seeing there this guy's rocking 250 points he can take any of the marks uh when he charges on a two up he deals d3 mortal wounds he has a solid attack profile it's not amazing but it's solid like he makes a good number of attacks two of his attacks he's he's actually like at a like his own personal taxes at five which is a fairly high number for an attacker um for like the rider often riders will like be at three or four yep with their weapons um and so like what that why that's significant he's actually like five on one weapon three with on the other right like it really invites like a rune blade or something that's like neg three rend absolutely yeah like give him the the face sword or whatever out of the out of chimone face sword or like room blade in uh the other realm yeah and you go to like five attacks threes and threes neg three rune two damage like that's pretty good yeah and then and then all the other things we've talked about so far because obviously he can get buffed by all that stuff right so and i agree i think that's definitely the hot pick um he's got a five up mortal wound protection um his little demon blade can also inflict mortal wounds uh which is cool he can self heal which is nice um and he can buff cast knights cast chariots and gorbys chariots um basically he has the same command ability as the old cast lord on demonic mount which is still around by the way uh they're both they're both basically he's just the big brother version of the cast lord on demonic mount yep um and he's getting all four profiles like when you look at he's having to choose weapons like oftentimes when you look at like the cast lord on manticore like you're losing some of those weapon profiles here you gain both of these weapon profiles and the five up uh out like mortal wound save correct um where like normally you have to give up uh one of your weapon profiles for a shield to do that right and he can give knights and all that other stuff plus one to hit and re-roll charges which is cool it's a good way to make knights stronger right so and he's and he's on a three up and he's not um he's not a monster which means that he and he's not on a large base either no like he's on a 90 mil oval so he easily fits in terrain for that two up and he uh and because he's not a monster he can easily get lookouts there yep uh he has eye of the gods uh which is you know cool so if he gets in there like i think this dude in godsworn champion is is like a super hot pick because getting him fighting more in the hero phase having another regular cast lord on foot behind him making him fight twice like it's solid this dude will do some heavy work for you especially if given like a neg three rend weapon right yep yep so i dig that one uh the godsworn champions of ruin points wise i don't remember all the battalions off the top of my head i have to go look at the right that sounds right they're all yeah they're all like them and the nergal battalion is they're all interchangeable yep sorry yes he's on the 92 mil base yeah the big he's on like the um fulminator you know base whatever yep okay godswrath uh this is again same setup in that it's one hero four to eight units from all the core cast stuff but this one actually can include a cast warshrine which i do enjoy not just one cast warshrine has to have one or more that's right which i like more two of them is good yeah yep uh this the the unit of heroes on this one is a little different though it's cast lord on mans core cast sork lord on mans core cast lord on demonic mount cast lord on carcadrack cast lord on foot or cast sorcerer lord so none of the other fun weirdo heroes yep and then its ability here is in your hero phase you can pick one cast warshrine from this battalion and roll a die for each enemy unit within 24 inches of that warshrine invisible to it for each six that unit suffers d3 mortal wounds like not a bad ability that you're just getting for free on a huge swath of the battlefield right like imagine every hero and every chaff unit that's in there and you just have a chance to ding them for a d3 mortals and to me it doesn't actually matter godswrath is just doing a lot of the stuff that i like right like it's letting me get my warshrine in there which would have been a drop it's getting letting me get my cast lord on carcadrack in there most of the units i like so yeah i think this is another decent pick right yep i would agree with that like if i'm wanting to run a similar like generalist battalion that is not wanting to focus on a combat hero then this is what i do yeah agreed um and then finally the ruin bringer warband uh one unit from the following list which is the cast lord on demonic mount or cast lord on carcadrack and then four to eight units of all the mounted stuff knights chariots gorbys chariots or cast marauder horsemen and each time a unit from this battalion finishes a charge move you can pick one enemy unit within one inch of that unit if you do silverlady on a 2 plus they suffer d3 mortals um interestingly about that if you do pick the cast lord on carcadrack he'll trigger that twice when he charges yep right because he already has that built in so um that's that's not the that's not the interesting thing about this the interesting thing about this is in this battalion every chariot that you have will do five mortal wounds on average on a charge sure sure because they're already the basic chaos chariot already ogre charges basically oh it's not just ogre charging and i want to talk about this okay the chaos the basic chaos chariot let's talk basic chaos chariot okay so hold on back it up the basic chaos chariot i think they are interesting they are 120 points yep for one they can be in units up to three and they are battle line in your army right yes so these are important things to to note so let's let's drop some base stats hold on i've got to flip over to this stupid chariot yep there he is that matters but you can go ahead and do that 12 inch move seven wounds four up save yep and most notably he has an ability called swift death which i think is what you're referencing well hold on uh yes but also spare the lash is it's a run in charge but there's not actually not a lot of run in charge in this army right um but it is a run in charge um yep and then swift death so he can get an 18 inch move plus a charge um and uh you know like auto running six but more importantly swift death it's the it's kind of the ogre charge in that you roll a dice uh you know pick an enemy unit within one inch of uh pick an enemy one enemy unit within one inch of this unit and roll a number of dice equal to the charge roll for that charge move yep not unmodified unmodified yep so if you're bonusing it with cogs or being in you know slanash god seekers you know whatever sure or blood stoker sure or a blood stoker is giving you plus three to charge right adds five dice to this rule yep sure um but just generic on an average of a seven charge plus the d three wounds from the other battalion you're going to average five mortals coming in without buffing it you're averaging five mortals right because his is for every five plus that enemy suffers a mortal wound right so normally ogres are either on a six if they don't if they have if they're not a monster or don't have at least eight models and they're four up if you have eight models or you're a monster this guy's right in the middle he's just always a five plus right so yeah like giving him blood stoker cogs god seekers and slanash anything that buffs his charge number right right um just makes this guy come crashing in with a lot of potential mortal wounds and then if he's in that that thing on a two up he does another d three another d three and so it just actually adds a bunch of very interesting options um and really leaves the gore beast behind yeah i agree the gore beast chariot's the big loser here i literally have no idea why you would use the gore beast chariot i know because swift death is just so much better it's so much better than what they're doing yeah yeah and so like you know you could fit like eight chariots in that battalion sure and just i mean more if you put them in units but i don't know why you would no but yeah but you don't get more mortals on the charge correct you want individual chariots yes yes yeah and so like you could you know dish out on average like 40 mortals of charging wounds every turn pretty decent pretty decent uh it's just like it's a crazy it does exactly what it says on the tin like it brings ruin it's this insane charging thing right uh somebody asked flail or greatsword on the chariot uh i mean i know what i would do uh it's great blade every time for me yeah it's never flail it's never flail because on anything because you never want d six attacks that's always the wrong answer correct i would also point out that your one chariot can automatically be the exalted chariot here because there's no limit it doesn't say like you have to have a unit of three to get a champion or whatever and so like you know the exalted chariot here gets plus one to hit so his great blade hits on twos right twos and threes neg one run two damage yep yep uh yeah so always sword and yeah i the chariot thing's fun so i like i like actually all three of their basic battalions i think they all have potential for interesting lists um i mean knights one of the big problems with knights is they have to break the enemy when they charge um making them slam in for an extra d three mortal wounds is just more damage you know i mean like it it helps so it can help them get there then there is one for every god plus the overlords yep we don't need to we don't need to like beat by beat all of these what i will say is they've brought back they're the old version so bloodmarked is one mortal slaves to darkness corn hero yep and eight mortal slaves to darkness corn units which pair ends units can also be heroes correct exactly so again these can very easily one drop your army because you could have like four actual traditional units and five heroes and jobs are good right um notably about these battalions which is actually really cool is every one of these battalions so blood marked for corn fates worn for zinch plague touched for nergal and pleasure bound for slanesh um all of them are part of the corn faction and the slaves to darkness faction for blood marked or you know the pleasure bound is part of the slanesh and slaves to darkness right so they each count as both a slaves to darkness battalion or a their own god's army battalion yep which is cool so if you want to run like he knights with slanesh allegiance but use this battalion you can and you can bring all the mortals in and go nuts right and let me just say like i uh i'm a long time fan of plague touched like it was my it was my jam um and i'm glad to see it playable and not only playable i would argue it's probably the best of the battalion options um plague touched yeah plague touch is absolutely the best one yes yeah which basically what happens with plague touched is if you tack a unit from plague touched um and when you when you're attacking if you end up rolling a six to wound it kicks back a mortal right on you um which is not as good as the six to hit uh but guess what it's still going to kick back mortals and interestingly plague touched used to only like be this if you deployed units in in multiples of seven um which was ended up being this like a really weird incentive structure where you'd have like a block of 28 chaos warriors or 14 chaos warriors um in order to gain like this effect on that unit and now it's just all units in the warband including your chaff including everything else right um and so it's just a so much and you always choose a unit and your hero phase one of your units in the battalion roll d3 or roll these x on a two plus it's going to spit a d3 mortals onto a nearby unit yeah i would also argue the blood mark is a good one as well because like if a hero from this battalion slays any enemy models in the combat phase you can pick one unit from the same battalion wholly within 12 that hero and add one to their attacks characteristic until your next phase like right that's just a good ability you're often going to have melee heroes who are fighting there's often going to be other units near them just adding and like you know the nature of combat is that you're going to activate one and then other people are going to go later right so just buffing them with plus one attack is pretty good it's a it is a case for corn uh chaos knights um because like corn cast knights obviously are going to like double benefit from getting their like bonus attacks on the horses um and so like going in with like a lord on carcadrack and then like following up with the unit of chaos knights like that's super punchy it is super punchy it's a great combo they obviously bonus each other it's pretty easy to keep those knights within a reasonable range of the lord on carcadrack right um similar moves and all that sort of thing so like it's it's a it's and again every time you're pushing those chaos knights up then they're in his aura they're getting all of that you know suddenly they're hitting on a lower number they're like hitting on twos re-rolling ones wounding on twos you know like it's with a bunch of attacks that actually makes them into a pretty potent melee threat um the slanesh and the zinge one are pretty much garbage they're they're useful enough because they're a battalion right so like they can be one drops the the fates worn especially because it's 10 it's a 10 unit battalion right like you can definitely one drop with fates worn yes nergal like it's painful at eight units because you want to fit in the demon princes for just spoilers um and so you're like really feeling it with nergal i can't even imagine trying to fit that many units into fates worn yeah and i wait i want to put a pin on what doom and darkness is saying because i agree with this point he's making in the comments that the corn battalion works well in blades of corn itself which obviously as i stated it can be taken in the corn allegiance so you're good to go there um where you're stacking the plus to attack with like blood stokers wrath mongers aspiring deathbringers you know whatever um and no i like blood stokers is still good because it's getting you in it's charging harder and then your blood secretor for plus one attack like you're just you can be shooting up attacks right wrath monger plus one aspiring deathbringer plus one blood secretor plus one this thing plus one you know like you could have a unit up at plus four attacks in corn yep right like that's bonkers level um and so there you go uh finally we should mention the overlords of chaos three to six host of the ever chosen baron units pass this is the most mind-numbing thing right pass so let's talk about what this would look like tom verand guard our battle line in your host of uh the ever chosen battalion you know right uh if all the units uh are host of the ever chosen so okay cool so three of them are 300 points yep so archion is 800 points yep three units of these are 900 points that put you to 1700 yep okay and the overlords of chaos is 120 so now you're at 1820 and you have 10 models on the table right sounds like army you have fulfilled all requirements of both the battalion and the normal army building as you have three battle line and one leader yeah you basically get to select a second an additional circle for all of your verand guard units so they can have plus one damage on the charge and fly or whatever yeah no okay cool beans like I guess you the army is all of that and a war shrine probably right is the army you'd build and you have 10 points left over yeah yeah I mean here's the deal your three drop so you got that going for you with your 11 models uh yeah and what I would actually probably do is like a sorcerer on foot and a and like a 70 like a 10 pack of of of something of one of the objective holders but you're not going to do that because like realistically like it's just not good you're going to run like if you run archion it just says a full disclosure if you're going to run archion you're going to run archion you're going to run one pack of air and guard probably and then a bunch of support pieces and objective holders sure like that's your army if you run archion you're not running this battalion uh yeah but it's whatever it's if you if you're all in on that idea right um yeah that army has and by the way that army has style points galore okay like it is the coolest of the cool it's probably not competitive but it is sweet as all get out like make it is sweet it is not competitive uh but it is I mean it is thematic yes all right you know let's talk about some other war scrolls we haven't talked about yet Tom we can finish this out let's let's grind through some other war scrolls yep I feel that we have have have to talk about cast knights and cast warriors right we've kind of talked about knights um let's just continue that on talk about knights first nights nights nights nights nights nights nights all right so 10 inch remove three wounds four up safe same as they always were second verse same as the first can be marked anything great uh they get plus one bravery from their standard yep right um they can add one to run in charge from their hornblower cool built in both in charge always good yep and their doom knight gets an extra attack okay great yep they can have no longer plus one to hit correct um they either have insorceled weapons and runes shields or cursed lance and runes shields um and in addition the boss by the way can have a cursed flail and a runes shield so whatever which you're never gonna have what you're never gonna have because it's a bad weapon you just give him the same thing as everything else whatever um all right so knights insorceled weapons are three attacks at threes and threes neg one one damage the cursed lance is two attacks at fours and threes no rend one damage but of course importantly if you charge then you get to improve the damage and the rend by one uh uh yeah or sorry the let me repeat that you get to increase the damage by one and the rend by two there you go if you charge so they become four three neg two two damage on the charge yeah and how good that is is largely based on what you're doing right like if you're they only have two attacks with a lance base but if you're in a world like the blood marked warband we just mentioned yeah or you have an allied uh blood secreter in your army right or whatever um whatever the the sort of thing is if you're pushing that number way up if that's on like four and five attacks and you're really all about charging like if you're in that that uh uh uh ruin bringer warband or something you know where you're charging dealing mortals again like four or five attacks with their lances re-rolling a lot of hit and wound rolls where you don't care that they're on fours if you're pushing that number down uh in ways if you have a lord to give plus one to hit and you're getting re-rolls yeah like yeah yep exactly then all of a sudden those lances can become absolute monsters my my lances are my choice if i'm running knights i'm running lances if you've built to that what i would say is it depends on what you want to use your your knights as because i think there's actually knights need to come down 10 or 20 points they're 50 there there are 180 points right now sure i think they should be 170 160 something like that okay um when you look at like what mighty skull crushers are doing or whatever you know or pigs or you know all those kind of things um that have the same wounds count and are in the same sort of area and in similar melee focused armies by the way right um in general i don't like comparing army to army but you know it is a useful sort of watermark metric especially when they are so similar when they're so similar similar wounds in a similar role in a similar army that's fighting in a largely synergistic melee profile right yep yep yep yep um the uh the thing that's interesting to me about gas knights is if i was going the synergistic build if i wanted them to be like my hammer then i agree with you you buff the attacks and you pick the lances and you try to break them on the charge right yep because off the charge you're going to do nothing your damage will fall like a rock off the charge right yep yep now if i wanted knights to be operating more independently and be more like and fill more of an anvil role right where they're out there to be kind of a heavy chaff anvil which by the way i think is a valid role for them right yep like you can have some guy following them around giving them re-roll saves and they're kind of will they'll go out there and they'll do work i think the weapons are the better choice there because you want them to operate fairly independently right yeah and having built-in rend they'll be more consistent over the turns they're they're not trying to like charge in and break something they're trying to move up and be in the way and last and you want them to attrition out their enemy right yep yep so that will be more consistent damage over turns yep so uh there you go oh well we're happy to help might make right and hey that working on Christmas is never fun but i'm happy we can entertain so i think knights can be really good but you've got to build toward them by the way uh i'm building toward knights baby i got i got knights in these two boxes i'm building toward knights i'm buying for the future this is my discussion tom i think right now warriors and knights aren't good but i think in six months i think they're gonna see slight point adjustment down that's my prediction yeah in the ghp slight but it'll be there and i'm ready to go i'm ready to capitalize sure like let me say this i i am uninterested in marauders agreed even though they are the right like buy right now yep um i i want like if i'm making a if i'm running this army i it's going to be on the backs of chaos warriors and cast nights yep agreed i'm going real steel baby i want the i want those armored masses of you know the the the true face of chaos which to me are the knights and the warriors right yep yep give me that lord on carcadrack the lord on demonic mount give me that cast lord on foot that's why i'm working on this guy and converting him up who's one of the first things i did because i'm super excited about i love this guy and i use the corgis call model which i think is just like a big base model for a cast lord and like that's the army i want to play is the most competitively optimal hell no but like i've got slanesh for competitive armies now i'm good it's fine it's it's been weakened and it's competitive enough i've got iron jaws for competitive armies i'm good no i would agree with that uh i think that um i like knights and i and like in my plague touched war bands like i keep trying to make knights work like i'm not willing to give up on them even now at their point calls i really think they're not optimal but i'm but i haven't given up on it yeah i think they're really optimal in corn i really do like that's where no i i agree that i think that they are better on they are better in corn period yep uh all right chaos war oh we said the points last night yeah they're they're 180 180 yes okay chaos warriors uh 100 points for five of them yep which is 10 wounds obviously five inch move two wounds four up save pretty standard they still have the same weapon options they always had so the chaos hand weapon two attacks three threes which is nice that got better uh no rend one damage the halberd at uh two inch range on threes and fours for one damage or the big old greatsword uh for fours threes neg one one damage um notably uh they cannot they can have the shield in both the hand weapon and the halberd you can also choose to give them two hand weapons so they have four different potential profiles only one of which has rend and these guys are expensive right like a block of 20 of these is 40 wounds but it's 400 points uh laughably comparable to the hearth guard berserkers um same i mean i know you say that i i don't agree but i i understand what you're saying sure like they are they are head and shoulders when stacked with nervel they're one of the most defensive units in the game agree they're like they in nergal these guys are the super anvil right right um a hundred percent agreed they can be given all the marks they have the same sort of leadership thing so plus one to run in charge which is what matters they have if they have the shield they're a five up mortal wound save which i think is good yep they always re-roll all saves as long as they've got at least 10 models yep which is amazing and if you do give them the pair of hand weapons which is wrong you can re-roll all hit rolls that is incorrect there are better ways to get re-roll hit rolls keep the five up save and yeah go from there uh notably the re-roll all save rolls isn't contingent at all on having the shields which is kind of cool yep yep so you can have like due to the greatswords who are still re-rolling all their saves they just lose their moral and protection like my big like i'm a fan of nergal cast warriors in blocks of 15 like i think eight or 20 because then they can get the plus one save out of the war shrine uh as doom parked out just pointed out if they're in corn they could get bronze flesh go to a three up so yeah yeah like i really like them in nergal like a lot yep they become very hard yeah they can have if they're near the general they can be neg one to be hit and shooting um they can you could ally in other nergal dudes if you wanted like the five up after save right for the what's that guy's name the harbinger or whatever the harbinger of decay yeah you can easily put these guys on a three up re-rollable all the time if they're near the harbinger there'll be three up all the time five up that's pretty awesome six up with the war shrine around right um if it's against a mortar wound thing they go and the war shrine's around they're fine the harbinger's around five up five up six up quite yeah as um somebody had said that they can the units can be mixed weapon they cannot like a lot of that that's just how they word it now a unit of chaos warriors has any number of models each armed with one of the following weapon options they've traditionally armed that as the models or each armed the unit right they've traditionally interpreted marauders by the way have the same wording um as do chaos knights and everything else they've traditionally interpreted that each unit to say they all have to be picked the same um i mean it's one of those things that could be clarified in the FAQ similar wording in the past has said that no in fact they have to all be armed the same and that seems to be what's implied here as well and let me be honest with you just please god make them one profile okay i know you all think you want them to have a mixed profile that's terrible that's a nightmare situation i do you want to have slow games because this is how you get slow games because then you got to go in and look and figure out okay well let's see i got three great sword guys attacking um i've got two halberd guys i've got one two weapon guy and then i've got my two guys with a shield one of them's engaged so let me roll these three attacks over here on this profile and then these two this is where slowness in games happens period it's not a movement it's in crap like this yep okay like it is a nightmare for fighting you get god forbid multiple units get piling into things it's like oh great well let's just sit around and spend the next two hours resolving this one fight because you have 20 cast warriors with four different mixed weapon profiles fighting three different units won't this be a joy no it will be the worst the worst okay so like i know we all think we want that we don't it's bad when they moved uh our boys onto one unified profile they did that because it was super annoying to be rolling all those individual things and you know what everybody was happy it was a better world okay right there you go all right uh so yeah i mean i think cast warriors are probably pointed correctly honestly at five for a hundred uh yeah i hate that but it's probably true yeah with all the synergies and bonuses they can get if they were our boy costed which is their nearest analog we could make right you know our boys are five for 90 our boys have built in rent same number of attacks same attack profile but built in rent right yeah and easy access to plus one to damage the difference here is these guys are naturally tougher our boys are still more offensive these guys are more defensive yeah yeah um because they have the built-in easy access to re-roll the saves the easy bonus to mortal wound protection like these are not your hammer no like we all want to go like we all imagine in our mind that cast warriors march forth and just chop everything to death but they're not like they're just not as written they are your anvil and that is their unirole right there you go and they're i think they're a darn good anvil by the way right um and yes compared to liberators i think they they you know are quite they compare quite positively so yeah you know there you go uh let's see there's uh we should talk about a few other of the war scrolls let me talk tom i want to sell you on this here you go tom you're ready for what i say the hammer is yep besides super buffed cast knights which we just mentioned chaos marauder horton no it's definitely not that tom i want to talk to you about the beauty of chaos chosen okay here we go you can't see his face but his face is upset let's talk about chosen i was not hot on chosen at the beginning i've come around let's talk about chosen chosen he had five for 140 10 wounds for 140 points not great but not terrible uh they are two wound models each they're garbo models you should just convert them out of cast warriors now but whatever um the original chosen are not good models but they're easy enough to convert so there you go they're armed with soul splitters six inch move two wounds for upstate they have the plus one run in charge and all that stuff they can be given any mark they have an ability called slaughter leaders which i really don't care about too much but it works like this if a model from this unit makes an attack that slays one or more enemy models after all this unit's attacks have been resolved you can reroll wound rolls for attacks made by friendly mortal saves and darkness units wholly within 12 of any friendly unit with this ability until your next hero phase cool so if they kill something they exploit they they push out a bubble of rerolling wounds not bad but i see it as i see it as like sprinkles on my ice cream it's not really doing anything right but it's kind of fun that it's there okay soul splitter if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a soul splitter is six that attack inflicts one mortal wound on the target in addition to any normal damage okay why i like chosen is because they can uh they can actually get and absorb all the bonuses we just talked about yeah and they can get to making a outrageous number of attacks right at decent hit wound rend damage and they can actually punch really hard for a relatively low points cost by the standard of this army they're a relatively like they can absorb a lot of buffs and on a decently small footprint put out a lot of punch um they don't require as much synergy as the knights to pop off and but yet they can actually do some decent work um i think they're underrated i actually like them i think they're i think they can do some good work what's what size base are they on 40s i think they're on 40s yeah i need to look up the base chart to be honest but i'm pretty sure they're on 40s that sounds right let's just go with that for now um and honestly if i was if you were gonna say like will vince the regular chosen models are garbage how would you make some the i mean how i would make some how would you do it tom uh i would use wrath mongers yep that's exactly correct or or uh probably what's the other wrath monger not rough small reefers or wrath mongers you use those bodies oh i would use sole reefers and i would convert reefers i would mix with uh plague king bits like future blight kings um i would mix with their bits like i actually i say that i have 10 of those no chosen are on 32 mil bases i'm sorry there you go i went and looked up the basin chart i'm sure somebody was already answering that while i was looking yep doom and darkness was already answering but yeah they're on 32s even better not my swinging around with them being on 32s uh i mean if they were three wounds a model you say that but i think that's too much they don't need three wounds a model you know the one thing they do need two inch reach yeah they got that big long weapon if they were two inch reach normally they don't care but if these guys were two inch reach so i could like have them swing over the top of other people fighting over a warrior anvil block yeah then i would be really on about them right as it is now i'm giving them like a six or seven out of 10 i think they're good i think they have potential that's what i'll say this army is starved for hammers and they're a pretty decent hammer that's yeah i mean they have a low mobility there's six inches they're not terrible on foot six is not they're not dwarves and they're almost dwarves um there is they're as far away from dwarves as they are from like uh the entire ogre army when it's hungry they are not dwarves um but they're also they don't have run in charge yeah i just i'm not sold on them like are you running them in 10 packs is that what you're imagining well i think five or 10 yeah i need to play around to see which one i liked better five or 10 small ish footprint high potential output damage that's my answer yeah i'm just not sold okay well that's okay you could not be sold i'm gonna try them out um i have some zinch chosen converted so there you go yeah like i mean don't get me wrong like i think that there's probably potential there um i know that other people have been real hot on them but uh i just don't know how they get delivered uh well do you either teleport and roll an eight or you just move across the battlefield because who gives a what do you mean how they get delivered like things that move six will get there they just don't get there around one you know if not everything needs to get there around one like the six inch move will get you into the fight it's a five round game you'll be where you want to be attacking stuff in round two yeah and then like it's fairly fragile like you say that like we're playing on boards that are 80 feet across you know it's just not that far man yeah uh let's talk about a couple other fun units they compare favorably to hammers sure all right but they do have the elite model problem having less models sure i get and yeah six inches is elf movement yeah that's right okay i want to talk about some other fun scrolls here tom shall we yep let's talk by the way uh what do we have to do gw to get these other three models that are in this tome released the ogroid the fomeroid and the the the mind stealers franks like so can we please get those out where are they just is that coming soon like anytime now guys mm-hmm okay let's talk about the ogroid miramadan uh because i think he's like i think all three of them are interesting ish is that a fair way to say it interesting yeah i mean what i'll say is this like all of these are second-class citizens in this army because they're they actually don't gain like they're basically allies in the in the allegiance because they don't need any of the oral or abilities well that's true they don't gain any of the aura abilities however um they can like the ogroid can still be buffed by the war shrine because he is a mortal slaves to darkness unit sure and he is still a hero and he has the eye of the gods right so he can actually go make himself better by killing heroes okay okay or or monsters or whatever i'm just saying it's thing yeah he's 140 points he's a six inch move dude with eight wounds on a four up save he's got a ranged attack that's like whatever it's fine he could throw one he could throw a spear three up three up neg one d three who cares um and then in melee he has a two inch reach six attacks three threes neg one one damage and he has big old horns but he has one attack with three three neg two rend three damage okay cool um if his unmodified hit roll is a six it inflicts two hits so he has the slanesh aura of chaos built in mm-hmm right which is good by the by uh and his berserk rage you can reroll hit and wound rolls for attacks made with melee weapons by this model if any wounds or mortal wounds were early we're allocated to this model earlier in the same phase so he kind of wants to fight second against stuff that isn't going to kill him um i actually think he gets rather good if that turns on it's almost like an enlightened type thing right mm-hmm so you just want to make sure he's not fighting a hammer that's going to smack him down in one round uh but i like that incentive where he isn't vying to be your first pick right oftentimes heroes and your your hammer units want to go first he kind of is okay with sitting around and then striking back and like i said he can be war shrine buffed right yeah so like okay that's cool you know seems fine um and he's a hero so cool i dig him uh shall we talk about my favorite non marked thing the kitty cat yeah let's talk about that kitty cat oh boy howdy do i love me a kitty cat mind stealers for ranks oh where have you been all my life you adorable cat llama you are my jam i love this model i want this model i want to be paying this model the fact that i'm not paying this model right now hurts release this model okay 100 points 10 inch move 10 wounds five up save first of all i love the wound to point ratio on this guy this is how monsters should be pointed agreed chaos mortal monster slaves of darkness mind stealers frank's great so he has a mortal still so okay he can like take buffs i don't know why you would care most of them don't really apply his melee attacks are all completely uninteresting and not of note that's not why you took him uh why you took him is well one he has this weak ability called telepathic dread where uh anybody within 12 inches any enemies within 12 inches of him are minus two bravery that's not terrible like for the occasional battle shock fair enough but most importantly he has an ability called dominate mind in your hero phase you can pick one enemy unit within 12 inches of this model and visible to it if you do so both you and your opponent must secretly place a die so that it shows any number and then reveal them if the numbers shown in the die are the same this ability has no effect if the numbers shown in the die are different the enemy unit you picked fights at the end of the combat phase until the next battle round uh you cannot pick the same unit as the target of this ability more than once in the same turn whether this ability has an effect or not uh super cool it's multiple things to note fights at the end of the turn until a combat phase right until the next battle round so if you're going at the bottom of the turn it's only your turn right if you're going at the top of the turn and that they're the top of the battle round right get it for both players phases or for both players turn yeah that's true um he's I love this this always strikes last ability I love a minigame I love a dice based minigame it's highly likely to be successful uh obviously because it's you know it's not super likely you both pick the same number what's that I'm rolling that dice every time you can roll whatever you want I'm picking mine because I'm gonna play the funny minigame don't be a party pooper tom uh I'm all about this guy I love this dude man he's great what a what a sweet monster um yeah this dude's awesome I love him 100 points he finds his way into a lot of my lists I built right he needs to be released so I can actually use him but he's cool beautiful model freaking gorgeous so there you go sure and then the foam right is just a big melee dude and I don't think he's very good at all so there you go it's fine I would take the Sphinx every time yeah uh okay we talked I don't think we need to go into the cultists anymore furies are good because they're flying skinks we've talked about it before but they're expensive yep uh the soul grinder is still bad because he's marked now what's that it's really sad they can't not can't be marked yeah they used to be able to be marked they cannot be marked now yeah it's kind of dumb um the slaughterbrook can only be marked corn the vortex beast can only be marked zinch by the way that's not required you can you can non mark them if you want sure um but whatever the soul grinder is still bad because he's on 160 mil round like that's the issue sure his rules are fine if he was on like a chariot base he'd actually be somewhat interesting right but he's not he's on a giant pie plate and he doesn't fly and he's like impossible to move around so nope I want to want to end here tom talking about the endless spells shall we close out on them sure so we have three endless spells uh the eight fold doom sigil the dark fire demon rift and the realm scourge rupture uh in which in order of points the eight fold doom sigil is 40 the demon rift is 50 and the rupture is 60 yeah doom the doom sigil is what makes it into my list and it's one of the most like dumbly worded abilities it is very hard to read so the doom sigil is this one i'll hold up it and so there you go it's this thing i'm holding it up so people can see it on camera since it's assembled and sitting right next to me yep okay it should say plus one attacks right but of course it has to be couched and all this nonsense it couldn't just be a thing you throw out there that just gives plus one attacks of course why not why not make it way more complicated it should just be plus one it should be predatory and plus one attacks for units holy within 18 uh yeah sure so but here's how it actually works 40 points casting value of five which i like nice and low uh obviously slaves the darkness wizards can do it and it has to be set up holy within 12 it's on a relatively small base so no big deal yep all right so you throw this thing out there keep track of the number of models that are slain within 12 inches of this model each turn okay so check one bookkeeping yep exactly requires bookkeeping uh at the end of each turn roll a dice for each model that was slain within 12 inches of this model during that turn so it's working a lot like the chalice right if people are familiar with the fec chalice for each three plus the player whose turn is taking place in other words your opponent will pick what i'm about to say if it's their turn and this gets triggered must pick one slaves to darkness unit holy within 18 inches of this model add one to the attacks characteristic of that unit's melee weapons excluding those of the mounts boo why it's just so so arbitrarily dumb just stop again strike through like i would have struck through this whole spell and said try again that's what it acts until that player's next hero phase which let me just point out this can do nothing right if it's their turn and a bunch of models die and they roll some three pluses and they hand out a bunch of plus one attacks and then it flips over to the battle round new battle round and you roll for turn and you take the turn the bonuses go away yeah oh yeah well hold on plus one attacks until that player's next hero phase no so if you take the turn if the if it's their turn you get bonuses at the end of their turn and it flips to your turn you keep those bonuses oh you're right because it's that player sorry other way around let me reverse that if they double turn you this bonus does nothing sorry and all the keeping and rolling that you've just done has been a waste of time and has no effect on the game correct wonderful so you just recorded 18 models that have died you've now rolled 18 dice they have now chosen a bunch of units units that they had to choose you mark all 12 units and then you roll for priority they win and then everything that you just did has been pointless pointless yeah and then you have to clear all the markers and start again yep awesome okay I mean I like plus one attacks on a bunch of units but like it feels like there is an easier way to get at this than whatever the heck is going on in this spell yeah right doesn't stack doesn't work on mounts like I just it's it's it's too weird it's too complicated for design uh no no yeah no good no explainer dark fire demon rift here's one that I think has potential especially depending on how the meta shifts yeah right yep this one's 50 points yep it is predatory yep but it can move up to 12 inches and it can fly yep uh cast on a six and you set it up wholly within nine inches of you when it's set up you immediately make a move as per most predatory spells so it's effective range away is is 21 inches it dings everything within 22 yep uh after this model has moved each unit that has any models it passed across and each other unit that is within one inch of it at the end of its move suffers d3 mortal wounds which when you initially read that you're like okay like that's all right there's plenty of endless spells that just do that thing that I just described right yep yep yep bunch of d3s over what you moved within an inch cool nice nice that it hits both what you moved over and everything in a radius where you land you know there are some that don't do that so that's good oh but but but wait it gets worse fueled by sorcery add one to the number of mortal wounds inflicted by this endless spell for each wizard and each other endless spell within 12 inches of this model just within not wholly within within uh after it has moved like you crash that thing into the middle of a zinch line with like pinkies everywhere and a bunch of their dumb casters all castled up or a hallow heart castle yeah see I hear that and and that's what I that's where my head went first right is to pop those bunkers sure um and that's good but actually like I realized like in the new world when zinch arrives this can be in zinches hand oh sure yeah yeah you get into their face they're like oh hi hi take my mortal wounds exactly yes this is exactly it works both offensively and defensively right right like because they just wait until you get close and then you're like oh you're in my pocket here have 12 mortal wounds deal with that dark fire demon rift yep and just like hey here's a d3 plus nine mortal wounds to everything that I just passed over which I'm just gonna like hop it around a little bit and then land so it's still getting all of my own stuff and uh boom goes the dynamite to your units yeah yep this is a powerful spell right uh I would point out by the way that mr gaunt summoner in zeech is a slave to darkness wizard there are other things you could take too but he is right right so he can cast this uh the doomed chicken cannot obviously because it is a slave to darkness wizard only but gaunt he can right yep uh so that's cool I dig that uh realm scourge rupture cast on a seven uh again predatory moves nine inches set up holy within nine which is really hard actually because it has to be as I'll describe it's this base like it's quite big and it has to be set up holy within nine of you right so like whenever you have to set up something exactly like this and it can only move in this direction like the way you set it up where it's only going to go in the direction you literally initially point it like the like the um like the guillotine thing which name eludes me um you know you're you're actually not going to be able to fit at the full line out right it's going to come back quite a bit by the way uh I want to jump back uh on the demon rift uh zeech uh if they still have destiny dice can just remove it can just remove it like likely you'll be able to use destiny dice in the new world yeah the spell on the spells oh sure yeah I understand sure yes against them yeah potentially like so they will likely like so they are in no fear for one round you don't know like again necessarily like depends on the casting depends on what's going on depends on what bonuses you have blahzy blahzy blah right right but sure yes the the powerful magic armies that you will screw up are also going to be the ones who are in a pretty decent place to dispel you of course sure right right um uh all right so the rupture uh when it's set up it moves like always it always moves in a straight line um you must place it width ways in the direction you wish to move it whenever it moves it moves in a straight line it cannot move backwards after this model is moved each unit that has any models it passed across in each other unit within one end of it suffers d3 mortals so again cool same thing but in addition until the end of the battle round so again this this sort of end of the battle round thing yeah you have the move characteristic of each unit that has any models it passed across in each other unit within one inch of it which is cool having move is good um it's just again it's a spell that could do nothing because it could be your turn at the end of the round you hit them and then you know battle round ends and like okay they don't it did damage but nobody moved anywhere yeah like it could just like it's just so weird yep to me the dark fire demon riffs a big winner though i think that guy's a potent spell uh offensively or defensively because like i said most of us have two or three castors and honestly an endless spell that can move over with a decent move of 12 inches it's pretty reasonably summonable on a six they can pretty easily pop for a d3 plus three to a lot of different units that's strong right like that's strong for 50 points so there you go it is predatory so i mean obviously it can come it can come back and ding you but if you're a cabalist you can also push it out you know you could ritual it out and do get more pushes out of it right you could double tap yeah well that would only be if you double turn is like the rituals are a starter turn i understand i'm saying you can't i'd love to be able to push this like cast it and then push it but you just can't you cannot but you can but um but you can get a lot of extra use out of the thing because of that right yep totally so yep uh anything else we want to say about slaves to darkness tom and your worst rind you want to try to flip back to your video here for the end and see if you crash because it'd be really funny um sure try yourself back on we'll see if it works i can't see my window nice hey there's tom look he's clear it's nice we can all say bye to tom he said he had to put up with a lot at the beginning of the show but he's fine now we're we're here um yeah i mean overall i'm gonna say i like the book um i think that points could use a little bit like it just feels like a lot of stuff is really expensive um which i don't mind i like starting in that place it means your investment can only be better i agree with that um i think that chosen are probably too expensive for what they currently are um i think that they need to come down 10 points or they need to be three-wound models which is the three-wound thing that's gonna right they can't adjust that easily with the new book um like the reality though is that they are like they suffer from the like elite model problem um so even though they have a high number of attacks like they can't take oh they can't hold objectives um if everything else is dead you're fine you'll need one model sure sure but even 10 of them at 30 attacks is not like yeah i don't know but yeah i i don't know i i could bring some points down but overall it's fine i agree great book i do think points are just a scotch high i mean like probably 10 or 20 little adjustments that'll happen in the ghb um will ask is would you recommend this book for every chaos player i.e corn, nergal, zinchen, slanesh my answer is a wholeheartedly and enthusiastic yes um because it it absolutely applies to all of that like if you like chaos you can run this in slanesh i was building a couple lists to run with tom and like some of them were slaves to darkness armies some of them were uh like slanesh armies or whatever you know yeah um and i'll do the same with nergal yeah i'll run this in in slaves to darkness or run it in nergal and really have to make some hard decisions as to which one i want yep i think it's it's interesting and competitive you know it'll be as far as zinchen goes obviously that whole world is about to change so we'll we'll know in a month what that actually looks like or less than a month realistically um but yes i think it's it's a it's a truly fantastic book um like from top to bottom i was very impressed by it fixed the silly nergal demon prince thing and we're and we're we're just in a wonderful place um i love it i'm super excited about it so yeah overall great book well done uh i think this was like one of the new writers so he who led the project so you did a great job wonderful it's compelling especially given that the uh the allegiance was that like a 27 percent matched when i thought it was down to like 10 but sure it was very low it might have been that low but it was low and the point is is that um i i think this will very very very much correct it move it back to the fat metal sure agreed yep all right everybody well there we go uh you know as we close out here if you're still watching remember hit the like button that really helps to get this out uh all that kind of stuff we're here every week so subscribe i'm supposed to say this stuff at the end of videos they tell you that helps so smash that like button uh hit bells and stuff whatever you do i don't know these are things you're supposed to say right i'm not sure but anyway this is a good book merry christmas everybody thanks for spending your christmas with us uh i'm glad we got to do this today i hope everybody had a wonderful holiday don't forget about the save rc thing it'll be in the link congratulations again to red wizard for uh his wonderful uh christmas present and let's help him out now and make sure that he gets to keep his dog and it gets to know his young child and uh as always everybody thank you so much for watching uh really really appreciated and uh as always we'll see you next wednesday bye bye everyone uh next wednesday by the way being like new year's so see you then