 Live from Copenhagen, Denmark, it's theCUBE, covering KubeCon and CloudNativeCon Europe 2018, brought to you by the CloudNative Computing Foundation and its ecosystem partners. Hello everyone, welcome back to theCUBE, exclusive coverage of CNC, of the CloudNative Foundation, Compute Foundation, part of the Linux Foundation of KubeCon 2018 here in Copenhagen, Denmark. I'm John Furrier, co-host of theCUBE here with Analysts this week. Lauren Cooney, who's the founder of Spark Labs, brand new startup that she founded to help companies bring innovation to CloudNative, bringing all of our expertise to companies also here on theCUBE. Lauren, great to have you this week here in Europe. You've done so much work in the area of open source over the years you've done. I mean, you were radical, renegade, progressive, pushing PHP, bringing that to Microsoft, doing a lot of great things. And now we're in a new modern era and you're bringing that expertise, but you're also on the front lines of the new wave. CloudNative, so what's your take? What's your analysis? I mean, you've got so much going on. I mean, it's not, you can't just retrofit old school open source, but it's got to build on the next generation. What's your thoughts? It has to build on the next generation, but you also have to look back at what has happened in the past. I think what is incredibly important to see is the mistakes that have been made in the past so that people don't repeat them. One of the things that I'm seeing here and hearing a lot about is, multiple distributions of Kubernetes out there. And when I hear multiple distributions, I get worried that they're going the open stack route and there's going to be too many distributions out there. I would rather see one or two standard, become kind of more standard and people building on top of that. Just, I think it's the right way to go versus the splintering of the community. If the community is going to stay together, you're going to have to narrow that down. What's the rationale for the distribution? Because we've seen this before, certainly in Hadoop, we saw people come out with distros and then abandon them and then people coalesce around. They'll just die on the vine. I mean, fundamentally, they just will die on the vine. It won't be, if it's not de facto already, you're probably not going to get a de facto. What should companies do? Should they have a distro now? They should map to one of the key distros right now. They should basically use what is out there already, the one that they feel is right and for their users and for their company long term. I really enjoyed a couple of interviews we had yesterday. I want to just kind of revisit a couple of them. Tyler and Dirk, we had Tyler on from the new programming language Ballerina that was launched, he's part of WSO2. Dirk is from VMware, a former early Linux guy, a Linux foundation guy, worked at Linux Turtles in the early days. These guys know open source, right? So you look at some of those leaders, right? And they say, hey, this is about the people. What are the things that we can draw from the past that are still relevant today as the new formula of Kubernetes and horizontally scalable cloud, cloud native, thousands and potentially millions of microservices coming online, new kinds of dynamic policy based infrastructure, software, everything's coming. Service mesh, can't forget service mesh. Service meshes are going to be huge. What do we have to keep and preserve and what is being built out? That's new. Well, I think that you need to preserve the feeling of the community and what's going on there. I mean, these communities actually, it's communities, not community. And these folks are coming along for the wave, right? And I think it's important to make sure that people are aware of that. And there's lots of different personalities and lots of different goodness that can be brought to the table with that and the recognition of that. I also think that for the most part, I do believe that this is one of the strongest communities out there. And it will continue to be for a number of years. I want to get your thoughts on some of the Ed Onek he said from Cisco because he was very complimentary of the CNCF as our other people. And we have been complimentary as well about keeping everything tight to the core and allowing people to innovate. So you have, and we've commented on theCUBE and other CUBE cons about this and they've been doing it which is let the innovation foster on the technical side as well as let people flex their business model opportunities. And not so much just for the sake of commercialization because if you have too much commercialization, you might stun the community of growth organically. So there's a balance. And I think CNCF has done a good job there but they've kept the core of Kubernetes really tight which has allowed the de facto standard approach to be Kubernetes that has created great opportunity and people are super excited by that. What's your analysis of what happens next? What needs to happen? What's the momentum phase two of this? Well, I think part of it is how do you monetize, right? It's looking at, and this is part of what Spark Labs actually does is we actually work with companies, some that are in the CNCF and we work on them in different ways to monetize. Is it a services wrapper that's going to work? Is it additional features or functionality? The innovation comes with the technology but with that technology you have to have the business model kind of in mind when you're building this out so you can figure out how to make money as these smaller companies especially are looking to do and as some of the bigger companies need to do as well. I really think it's important for the CNCF and the Linux Foundation. I know they're on this so it's not critical analysis so much because it is more of an observation. You have a long tail of startups and kind of a fat tail if you will that are out there and you got the big whales out there, Google, Microsoft, Amazon and others at the top. There was a comment in Austin, a snarky comment, I won't say by who but I was looking at the logo board of the sponsors and the guy said all those startups, they might be dead in 18 months and it made me pause and say, okay, that's an observation because they were brand new companies. That can't happen. We need to have a model of preservation for startups to experiment, to grow. There's something that you're doing at Spark Lab. So what's your view of this and the reaction to the fact that this has to happen? What can we do as an industry and a community to make sure the startups- I think the Linux Foundation is doing one of the best things that can be done out there and other open source foundations do too. Is they create the infrastructure so that folks have the support for marketing or legal or something along those lines? But so companies are allowed to innovate and then the Linux Foundation basically bets on the innovation and they bet on multiple innovations with multiple companies. So they allow these companies to thrive while giving them the support inside of that. And I think that's really helping a lot of these companies along. Well, Dan Colon always says it's the membership organization so no members, no business model. So I mean they're incented to make sure that hope that these guys can survive and certainly there's going to be some misfires and people with natural evolution. So what are you most excited about? I got to ask you, I mean you're out on your own now. Congratulations on your startup. Thank you. Super exciting for you and I'm happy that you're going to go out on your own. What are some of the things you're excited about? What do you get digging your teeth into in terms of projects? Share what you're doing. I'm super excited about these companies that are coming out with true multi-cloud. So allowing applications to run across multiple environments, public, private, et cetera. And we've been saying that we can do it for a decade or something like that. But fundamentally that wasn't the case. You did have to rewrite code. You did have to do a lot of underlying things to make that occur. One of the things that I'm super excited about is being able to take those companies and figure out how to actually get their product to market faster. Some of these guys are still in stealth. They need to move really fast if they want to catch up. I also love working with them on figuring out how to build out their teams, figuring out how to monetize. What are the next steps? What are the business plans really behind this? What is the one, three, five-year model that they're going to use? I also love helping them get the money, of course. I think that's the fun part too. Yeah, it's always fun. Startups are great. What I'm excited about, I got to tell you, I got to share with you just some personal feelings. I love this market right now because I've seen many waves of innovation. I think this wave of cloud native, whatever you want to call it, this massive wave or sets of waves coming in. And you got blockchain and other things going on behind a decentralized application, which I think is part of this set coming in. Is that it's bigger than all the other waves combined. And because there's so much value creation on the horizon. And I think historically, this moment in time, historically is going to be a point where we're going to look back and saying, the Kubernetes de facto standard galvanized set of industry, a new guard of players where we're going to establish a new way methodology of doing things. And we're documenting it. So, and secondly, the role of community, as you point out, is so important here and it's strong. But now we're living in a new age of digital. So we're seeing formations of new kinds of community engagement digitally, not just the events. So I'm excited with theCUBE and what we're doing here and what the Linux Foundation is doing because there's now going to be potentially exponential growth and acceleration around the combination of community, the community growth with this new modern commercialization on digital. I mean. It's definitely increasingly important. And you have to look at it from, you know, the technologies making it happen, the technologies looking at, you know, edge computing is going to make digital happen really when you look at all the end points and things along those lines. And I think that it's going to be great for everyone involved in that. Yeah, and we can learn a lot from looking at the Facebook example of how fake news swayed the election, how people were weaponizing content for, you know, bad things. There's also an opposite effect. We believe that you can do the for good. So yeah, I think digital will have a big role in the next generation community formations, community growth, shortcuts to the truth. Really, that's what it's all about. It's about the people. So certainly we're going to be documenting it. Thanks for your commentary. Appreciate it. Great to work with you this week. Day two of exclusive coverage here at the Linux Foundation's Cloud Native Compute Foundation, CNCF's CubeCon 2018. This is where Kubernetes service measures Istio. A lot of great projects from a lot of smart people. We're here on the ground covering it live. For day two, we're back with more coverage. Stay with us for day two coverage after this short break.