 Okay, hello everybody. This is Tony Addison from you knew wider and the University of Copenhagen. Welcome you to this webinar. And we are just letting people into the meeting at the moment. I think we have a very good audience today. This video is part of our program on domestic resource mobilization, which is a new wider research project supported by the government of Norway through norad. And today, we thought we would have some presentations on what we're seeing in the lead up to the climate change meetings shortly to take place in Egypt. We've had a series of meetings at wider, including around table a couple of weeks back discussing any issues, particularly focusing on the energy issues, and particularly focusing on the the oil and gas sector, which is going to be very much the topic today. As we said on the introductory slide, we'll be videoing this meeting so you'll be able to watch it on the wider YouTube channel. Later on, there is the normal chat function in which you can make some comments or ask some questions. We only have an hour today for the webinar so we're going to have to proceed relatively smartly. So we'll see whether we can get to some chat or Q&A later on but we'll have to give prominence to the presenters today given it's our long webinar. Our speakers today will be beginning with Catherine McPhail and Etienne Ronson of EnergyCC, which is a group with very long standing experience in the energy business, advising companies, governments, and others with extensive experience in this particular field of work. And they've been working with wider on issues, particularly to do with oil and gas and reducing emissions in the oil and gas sector. So I'll be talking about today, but also issues of oil theft as well. And those papers are on the website. They have actually prepared a paper, a draft paper, which will eventually come out as a wider working paper, which discusses some of the important energy issues leading up to the COP meetings. And that's actually on the website of this meeting for you to download. The presentation by Catherine and Etienne will be then followed by Matt Mood Mahildan, who is one of the UN climate change high level champions for the forthcoming COP 27. I'm very familiar to you all being extensively involved with the UN through being a special envoy on financing and the sustainable development agenda. Matt Mood, as you appreciate, is extremely busy in the lead up to the meeting so I'll be very grateful to have him in this meeting, and he'll be coming into this later on. So further ado, if Etienne could put up the first slide, that would be that would be helpful on the share screen, using this wonderful zoom technology that we've all got so familiar with over the last two years. This first slide, before Etienne makes the presentation, Etienne and Catherine make presentation just shows some of the multiple challenges that we face at the moment we are in a sense in a triple challenge. We've needing to improve resilience for health, particularly as we recover from the COVID pandemic. Air quality which is directly connected to emissions is also part of the health agenda. We're all engaged in trying to improve energy security, particularly in the development context because we know there's so much energy poverty in the developing world. We're all trying to improve economic growth but growth that's sustainable environmentally and reduces poverty. And I don't need to remind the audience here today of the multiple challenges that we face with that agenda, recession, post conflict recovery, and of course the war in Ukraine. And at the center of that is of course the substance of the COP 27 meeting, how we are going to accelerate progress on reducing carbon and methane and other greenhouse gas emissions, which is going to be the focus of Etienne and Catherine's discussion. So let me now leave the floor to Etienne and Catherine from Energy CC to make their presentation. Thank you. Great. Thank you very much, Tony. And first of all, I'd like to say to all the distinguished participants it's really a pleasure to be with you today and thank you all for joining. I really look forward to your participation. And before I get started, I'd also like to thank Tony Addison and you and you wider really for the leadership on how reducing wasted gas emissions presents immediate opportunities to create cleaner and reduce climate impacts. And we also delighted that many people who joined around table that Tony chaired in September on this topic are also with us again today. And this really brings together the strap line of COP 27, which is together for implementation. So next slide please. Tony has already set out some of the global challenges and what we observe is that solutions to these global challenges are often approached in separate silos. So we see a real opportunity to tackle these issues that Tony raised in a more coordinated way through gas flaring and venting. There are two messages that will be setting out in the course of our presentation. The first is that reducing emissions creates benefits that extend well beyond climate. Policy makers now have visibility of the multiple benefits simultaneously for human health, for food security, for public revenues, for energy efficiency, and for climate. And more broadly wider research shows that there are a large number of developing countries, which are dependent on oil and gas production. The World Bank finds that much of the wasted gas occurs in developing countries. And our second message today is that solutions exist to reduce these emissions. We know where the emitters are. We know how much they emit. We know the cost of these emissions in financial, economic and importantly in social terms. Some of these solutions are already being pioneered in developing countries. And there are also immediate opportunities to scale up action. So if we can go to the next slide please. On many of you will have seen the 2022 Sustainable Development Report, which finds that for the second year in a row, the world is no longer making progress on the UN SDGs. So there's two messages from this slide. First of all, the volume of global gas fled and vented is very large. 7.5% of global gas is wasted, and at current prices about $10 per MMBTU. This has a gas sales value of $100 billion US dollars per year. And importantly, and as you can see from the chart on the right hand side of the screen here, this 7.5% of global gas fled and vented actually causes 54% of the total social cost of global natural gas produced unused. And if we go to the next slide, we can see this in a bit more detail. Here we are setting out what we call the social cost of atmospheric release. This is based on a model that I don't have time to go into today, but we have been able to quantify using this model in dollar terms, this scar as it's called on human health, agricultural yields and climate. On the left hand side you will see the social cost of eight different atmospheric releases starting from methane CH4 at the top down to carbon at the bottom. Now there's two points I want to talk about in terms of results here. The first one is for different emissions affect climate, air quality health and agriculture in different ways. The second is methane. If you take a look at the top bar chart, which says methane CH4. It has a disproportionately large impact on human health. What you see is the health impacts from air quality. WHO finds that air pollution is the leading environmental health risk that humans face from premature deaths. The dark green bar is the health impact from climate changes. So this would include diseases such as malaria and dengue. WHO also finds that of the 4 million premature deaths in 2016, 91% occurred in developing countries. So I think the lesson for policymakers is really we see an immediate benefit to many sustainable development goals by reducing methane and other atmospheric emissions from gas flaring and venting. Let's talk a little more detail of the large local benefit if we could go to the next slide please. So this slide is a satellite image, Southeast Asia you can see on the left, focusing in on Indonesia and Jambi city, which is a pretty large city in Sumatra. But you can see from this satellite image how there are many houses within a very short radius of this flare which is in the center. This also includes food stores and coffee shops. Now Jambi city is short of electric power. So this wasted flare gas could be monetized for local power generation put into the grid and we'll talk more about gas monetization later on. And there's a lesson here for policymakers because the satellite data also shows that Indonesia has 200 gas flares. So it highlights the opportunities for energy access and importantly for clean air as championed by clean air Asia, which is an international NGO that has been working for several decades on air quality. So if we go to the next slide please. This next slide is come takes us to Nigeria, and we are in the Niger Delta here you can see the location on the left hand side of this flare. And on the right, this is not exaggerated but an expanded view of the slide. And what is striking about this particular vision from the satellites is how the agricultural fields are actually right on the boundary of this large flare from an oil and gas facility in Ogbe village. Now this creates a lot of health risks. I've talked about methane but the OCS volatile organic compounds are carcinogenic. There's a lot of cancer risks. So again, there's, there's a lot of risk and a lot of opportunity from reducing these emissions. Next slide please. So here I want to speak specifically about super emitters. So when we were so pleased to see a cop 26 the global methane pledge such a great success, and now signed by 120 countries or more. We were thinking about well what could we do to support this pledge, and we were very struck by a comment in the documents about how it was going to particularly focus on high emission sources. We know from satellite data that more than 60% of all gas flared comes from just 700 flares out of a total of 10,800. So if you look to the right of this slide you'll see the figures there. So this really helps to highlight how if we target the largest flares, this would yield major reductions in greenhouse gas emissions. And the top super emitters list, which combines both the flaring that I'm talking about here. Importantly with methane emissions. This will go a long way to benefit policymakers, operators, investors and local communities in ways that are set up on the slide I won't read them out. Importantly, many of these global super emitters are in only a few countries. Again, many developing countries. Most all these countries, however, are members of organizations or MDBs that have already pledged technical assistance and project support for the global methane pledge, including the EBRD and the Green Climate Fund. So let me go to my last slide before we'll hand into Etienne. The last slide is actually an extract taken from a Center for Global Development blog. Center for Global Development is based in Washington DC. And I believe there's some participation by CGD in this webinar. So this again sets out some key actors if we are going to accelerate implementation. But what I'm going to focus on is the third point regarding the IMF. Now the IMF is a unique institution in that it holds mandatory article for consultations with all 190 member countries. It's been playing a leadership role since the Paris Climate Agreement, including in its analytical work. And this work also includes a proposal that methane penalties are based on a deemed basis as they call it. So this would mean that the government does not have to prove how much methane is emitted. But rebates would be given to operators that prove themselves through independent assessment such as satellite monitoring that they emitted less. I was very encouraging just last week at the annual meetings. The IMF announced that its new resilience and sustainability trust, which is focused on pandemics and climate has become operational and is ready to start lending operations. And again, is a pathway towards linking finance to methane and other atmospheric emissions reduction. So let me stop there and I'm going to hand over to Etienne to continue with the presentation. Thank you. Thanks very much, Catherine for for that introduction and summary. The third is that flaring and venting emissions are large hundred billion dollars annually in sales value. They're harmful for local health for regional architecture and for global climate. And the emissions from flaring and venting cause a cost more than half of the total social cost from all use of natural gas. We need to reduce these avoidable emissions. So the question really is, why does routine flaring and venting assists when the benefits for not doing so are so large. When we study specific cases of emitters, we know that solutions often readily exist, as Catherine already mentioned. These require not one but a combination of actions and actors, a multi dimensional approach. And this is highlighted in the diamond model that you see on the screen on the right. Each of the four quadrants of this model brings a part of the solution to reduce emissions and each element works in concert with the other elements. Measurement of emissions enables useful actions towards emitters. And if emissions are measured, this information is often not available to the right parties to take action, whether these are regulators, local community governments, or NGOs. Transparency is key for decision useful information on repurposing the gas wasted gas monetization technologies exist. And are now much more easy to deploy a more commercial to implement. But these solutions require regulatory support for gas aggregation for third party infrastructure access for lifting of import restrictions so that these technologies can be imported. And meaningful penalties that can induce the oil and gas operators to implement emission reduction measures. In the next part I will highlight each of the elements of the diamond model in a little bit more detail. We work a lot with satellite measurements of emissions, multiple satellites scan the whole planet on a daily basis and measure a range of things. And here's a data set that from one super emitter flat that be evaluated in Nigeria, or from the comfort from our office in Singapore. These, there are some 11,000 gas players on the planet as Catherine already mentioned, and each one can be individually identified by its spectral signature and by and its rate measured by the light it admits with multiple readings per day. If there's no cloud cover at least a substantial data set builds up over a period of time. In this example, player observations span 10 years and each rate measured is a little red, yellow dot in the graph on the right. Some 4000 measurements in total for this single player. It provides very valuable information to trend flare rate performance and benchmark rates with other assets. And with further spatial information such as from Google Maps, it then becomes possible to study and screen potentials opportunities for repurposing this gas being wasted. Whether for local power generation, or to be used as an automotive fuel as a compressed natural gas, or for gas aggregation and export. What is remarkable is that this particular or be awful or become gas plant flare is connected by a pipeline to the Bonnie liquefied natural gas plant LNG plant. And does the gas could be exported. At a time when the LNG plant operates at less than 70% of its capacity and more natural gas is desperately needed globally. And intriguing that for why this gas plant ranks as one of the top 1% largest gas flats on the planet. The evaluation of the will be awful or become gas flare is one out of a portfolio of 62 flares evaluated for Oxford policy management and the foster project by UK's fcdo. It actually has a good track record in reducing gas flaring from 21 billion cubic meters in 2005 to 7 billion cubic meters in 2020. However, significant opportunities to reduce flaring remain of the population of 62 flares we studied these are located onshore in the northern northern Niger Delta, and represent one third the total gas flare fled by Nigeria. These amounts to have one and a half million tons per annum of LNG output with a market value of 730 million US dollars a year. And as I mentioned, much of this gas flat is already connected by a pipeline to the Bonnie LNG plant. All the flares only require short distance tie ins to this existing infrastructure. The scale of gas fled in Nigeria and many other countries offers highly significant opportunities to increase fiscal value for government and energy security for Europe. Bonnie LNG provides half its LNG output to European markets. In addition to highlighting the scale of the opportunity to repurpose gas being fled. The OPM project also revealed another key aspect. Government is often missing decision useful information they need to set the right policy. In Nigeria, there are flaring penalties that are only a quarter of the amount for marginal oil producers. Producers that produce less than 10,000 barrels a day. However, our study found that three of the four global super emitters in the northern Niger Delta are actually marginal oil producers. So the assumption that small producers flare less and therefore should attract a lower level penalty simply does not hold. Finally, satellite data can also assist regulators to prioritize where to focus their attention and which assets to visit for inspection and follow. The transparency that satellite data can provide on emissions is therefore very useful for governments and regulators, but there's another way how data transparency can help. With information available for each global gas flare on its location and rate, it is possible to develop a super emitted top 100 or top 200 lists. We are currently looking at the opportunity to superimpose methane emissions for each of the global flare super emitted. Flare combust natural gas imperfectly and sometimes can actually do more damage than just gas venting. The project that we wish to execute will draw attention not only to how much gas is wasted, but also to flare quality and therefore the social impact on health. In our wider research, we have documented the chemicals emitted from flaring and their impact Catherine already showed the summary slide. There is abundant evidence that volatile organic compounds VOCs and black carbon emissions, among other chemicals emitted by flaring are casino genic. I also refer to recent reporting by the BBC on the impact of gas flaring at Basra oil fields and the links to cancer such as leukemia. In BBC's latest heart talk program yesterday, the issue was acknowledged by the Iraqi environmental minister. We have the ability to create a global top 200 super emitter list such that efforts can focus on addressing the disproportionate portion at harm is relatively small group of individual emitters has on society. In the graph above is shown the largest global flare in 2020 indeed located in Iraq. In a field operated by look oil. The top 100 gas flares are shown on the right. Gas wasted by the single flare on the left, provide sufficient fuel for more than 92,000 commercial vehicles if they would be running on compressed natural gas. The black smoke visible in the Google image on the left bottom is indicative of the harmful chemicals being spewed out and as reported by the BBC. Iraq flares enough gas to be able to support a very large energy plant, but not only that. The way it is next door to Iraq and is importing natural gas with expensive LNG. It is less than 50 kilometers from the buzzer gas flares to the border of Kuwait. As highlighted earlier in the presentations, there are solutions to repurpose gas emitted by large emitters, but now also for much smaller emitters. The solutions deliver local power or does provide compressed natural gases fuel. There are even mini and micro LNG solutions. Previously it was difficult to implement these gas monetization projects in remote areas, local engineering skills and infrastructure constraints prevented easy delivery of such projects. Modern gas monetization technologies are modularized and literally come in a box with only hookup of the gas source required. Because of the standardized and modular design and industrial fabrication process project costs are much lower than before. However, the issue with these emission reducing technologies is how to get these imported into the countries where they are most needed import tariffs and red tape. The government creates too large an impediment to implementing these technologies. Governments can help by reducing barriers to importing emission detection equipment and got gas monetization modules as shown here. During my presentation already highlighted a number of times that governments and regulators can provide an enabling environment to reduce emissions penalties on emissions such as implemented in some countries are useful and necessary. However, penalties are not just a solution to obtain more government income from oil and gas operators. Governments and societies benefit a lot more if the gas is not wasted, but used. Therefore, the level of penalties is important. Specifically, these penalties should ideally be set at the level that provides sufficient motivation for oil and gas operators to stop their emissions. There is a difference between carrot and stick. The government can support gas monetization, for example through legislation from third party access for infrastructure and reducing import duties on technologies as already mentioned. There's one further point of highlight. We often hear that the assessment of regulators of emissions is inaccurate, particularly if this involves remote sensing, and therefore companies object to the penalties. In this case, we say that oil and gas operators are responsible to measure their own emissions and have their measurements certified by third party and to provide these verified emissions data directly to the regulators. IMF proposes a very elegant solution to implement this scheme. It proposes to set physical penalties being based on deemed emissions, and these could be obtained by satellite data. If oil and gas operators then think they emit less, they could measure their own emissions and have these certified as the basis for potential rapiates on penalties paid. Finally, I want to end where we started the discussion. Reduction of emissions is not just for climate. Many sustainable development goals benefit from these emission reductions, but in particular energy access, health, and climate. Solutions seldom do we find a solution that has no downsides. As most solutions for complex problems require trade-offs between short-term and long-term between local and global, between priorities on how to spend investment monies. Here, we have presented the solution framework that is practically self-funding. The natural gas resource wasted has commercial value and a truly large value as we have shown. Moreover, the solutions are win-win-win, a win for local energy access, a win for economic development, a win for fiscal income, whether through penalties or gas sales, and a win for climate, and particularly a win for health. With that, I thank you for your attention and will revert to the summary slide to invite any questions. So thank you very much, Etienne and Catherine, and there is an excellent draft paper by EnergyCC on the meeting website. I also refer you to the wider working papers that they've done on particularly methane emissions, which are on the project website. So those are must-reads. So without further ado, I would like to welcome the UN's high-level champion for climate change, Dr. Mihildin has kindly joined us this afternoon in what is an extremely busy agenda in the lead-up to the meetings in Egypt very shortly. So if we can turn MacMood's camera and audio on, please, and I invite him to address the meeting. So welcome, MacMood. Greetings, MacMood. I think we can hear you. Very good. That's a very good start. Then perhaps you can get the camera on as well. That's very good. Good. And we can see you as well. Terrific. Excellent. Well, perhaps talk about energy I'm calling from Geneva today. For some reason there is no electricity in this room, but we're using what remains of the daylight. But many thanks, Professor Tony Addison, for inviting me. I managed to hear the concluding remarks from the previous presentation that gives me a good starting point about the interconnectedness and interlinkages between what we are trying to do in the climate action agenda and the rest of the SDGs and what we should be expecting at COP 27 on matters related to energy in particular. And I will just start by quick reminders of the state that we're in today when it comes to energy and the inequality of access. When we consider that Africa still had the largest figure of energy poor globally, where more than 40% of the total population lack access to electricity, which are around 600 million people living without something that has become essential to others. And when we keep talking about Africa's contribution to total emissions to be around 3%, we shouldn't be forgetting that this is coming with a huge sacrifice. And these emissions are not there because Africans are using more friendly technology to environment or to the Paris Agreement. It's basically because of extremely low production, extremely low consumption and lack of access to essential services including electricity as I just mentioned. There's an area that just for your consideration when you have the political economy dimensions and the dynamics and the discussion. Why the cause of many developing economies, including African countries not being taken seriously in negotiations because so far, perhaps the, the leverage power is very much limited. The percent is not like the multiples of that in the case of India and the more multiples of that in the case of China. So a vicious argument could say, especially with the talk today about returns to fossil fuel. And the calls from the African Union to use natural gas emulating a similar call from the EU after the war in the Ukraine to consider more utilization of fossil fuel. That would really be dramatic. And with very negative impact on emissions and very negative impact in the future because perhaps Africa can have a good starting point without major need of restructuring because there is not there isn't very much to restructure. And we can really start afresh with clean green technology. That requires three things. And this could be based on a recent discussion that I just had with Professor Duflo who won the Nobel Prize on her way to work in targeting poverty that needs finance technology and behavioral change. And we're not seeing much of that really flowing to developing economies, including the African ones with very limited investments, including in renewable energy. And I think the recent figures are telling us that the share of renewables in the global efficiency mix have grown significantly from 18% in 2000 to more than 20, the 26% in 2019. And we can see as well the impact of solar and wind. Thanks to the advances on cost reductions associated with them. But again, when we check the share of Africa and all of that is very much limited, although that we can always look at the bright side of light. And we say that countries like Egypt has one of the biggest solar plants in the world could be number four after the ones in India and China. And Morocco is not doing that as a hydrogen is being taken more seriously than ever before with the six African countries leading the work on green hydrogen standards and a country like mine. And the host for COP 27 has so far 16 m we use on green hydrogen. A few of them are going to be ready to be announced with full fledged plan and offtake agreements. So it depends really where are we trying to put the emphasis on. We cannot say a glass half full or half empty, because there are many glasses around in in developing economies and the there is a great deal of inequality and discrepancy, and there is lack of funding for all kind of serious work when it comes to just transition. Of course, I like to mention a couple of things before I get into the concluding remarks on what we should be expecting from COP 27. There is something about the debate about just transition or just transformation. The just transition. It's very much there in the literature and basically moving from fossil to to green. But the transformation is putting into consideration the developmental impact. And one thing that came strong from Glasgow last year is the, the project that's still a potential project in South Africa because it's not fully realized yet. And facing out from coal investing and renewables, looking after the impact on the local community that could really be considered as a good transformation project, not just about using a technology to the other but was mindful to the impact on local community. But that needs really that starting point that I had building on the excellent summary of the presentation before me about the interconnectedness between the different action that we're we're trying to pursue. As as rightly mentioned, if we reduce emission that will have an impact on health and inequality on gender and other aspects. And I would say that that the sustainability at large, then suffering from a reductionist approach for it to me to be we own to own mainly mainly climate action and climate action to me to mean only decarbonization and having a dollar sign to carbon. This kind of reductionist approach is not useful. Yes, you have achieved everything else as I was telling couple of friends from another country. If a typical African country or a typical developing economy had achieved the level standard of living and in human capital and other areas of progress as you did perhaps they can really similarly and they can really reduce the whole matter in a couple of actions related to to climate like this, but climate action climate agenda globally and specially in the developing economies, especially in a world that is changing fast in a world that is overwhelmed by crises. And when I say a colleague shared with me her talking points earlier, saying, Well, the world is experiencing triple crisis, and the world is not really even united about what what triple crisis that we're facing. Is it climate inflation and recession, or is it climate debt and inflation, or is it something else. Because we haven't seen it with this kind of the globalization and deficit of trust and a lack of sharing of mutual concerns as we are having it today. So, to answer that, and I'll be very brief. I would suggest that we need to follow five things coming from COP 27. First, a more holistic approach to climate action. By that you would really put the climate action agenda not just mitigation adaptation. Loss and damage which so far has been lost in endless discussion by the way, this could be another discussion. And we have been reminded strongly with this file with the recent cases in Pakistan. And you add to those three finance. This is basically our Paris agreement. That holistic approach, as I see it from COP 27 is putting the whole thing. We add to that biodiversity you add to that the rest of the SDGs. So here you can really talk about the impact of actions in the climate agenda on the rest of the SDGs. It needs not just finance technology and change of behavior, which is a good starting point, but that needs policy coherence and effective institution in delivery. The second point that you may share with me. I think that people especially in developing countries have been exhausted and frustrated by many promises and lack of delivery, including the famous 100 billion from Copenhagen, which is even if it is delivered and never is. We say that advanced economies didn't deliver because actually some of them did. Six countries out of 1023 are delivering more than 100% of their fair share and for their contribution, but the rest are between 5% and 70%. The thing is here that even if we have the 100 billion, that will not cover more than 2% of the gap for transformation. If we take the IEA reports, for instance, focusing on energy alone and the transformation required in the energy sector, not adding the rest of the cost associated with other actions and climate and for sustainability at large. So here you will be seeing this kind of eagerness to see implementation taken seriously. So this means that we need to have a dollar sign attached to every promise we need to have a time frame and we need to have some sort of accountability mechanism, not across countries but at least within countries and even within companies through their own general assemblies if a company pledges something they need to be fully accountable to their pledges. The third area and Tonya we're just finishing a meeting with the DSG Amir Mohamed and colleagues as well. This is building of your excellent work on extractives. So we built on that we have another five region around tables, but not this time extractives alone, although that they were in the background, including discussion of the critical raw material that we just finished here in Geneva yesterday. But we discussed the role of the Regional Economic Commission in building pipelines of projects in mitigation adaptation to answer positively the call by the GFans, the Global Finance Alliance for Net Zero, because GFans said we have the money but we don't have the project show us the pipeline. So we're busy during the last four months working very hard. We have the presidency of the COP, along with the UN system, GFans and the Champions team, based on the Moroccan partnership, and we have now a decent list of projects investable owned by the countries in the different aspects of the work. The fifth dimension of the work is basically about localization, which has started in Egypt, and saying as very simple, perhaps a political economy question, why a country like Egypt holds this big COP 40,000 people to be in Sharma Sheikh what's in it for us. And I know that there are many things that are there for Egypt to host such a COP, including paying attention of things that could resonate in Egypt in the transformation and getting more investments in renewables in taking matters related to recycling more seriously. In many other things, including actually changing curricula of universities and schools to put climate and sustainability, as we have seen it happening now so there are many positive things in investment finance and beyond. The final thing is on finance. So I mentioned holistic approach implementation, regional dimensions, localization. The final part is finance. So we'd expect then us to talk beyond the 100 billion. There's a very important paper that the Egyptian presidency along with COP 26 presidency commission next turn and and then a song we and 12 scholars with them are practitioners to share a blueprint of priorities of finance. As you know, financing climate has been dependent on that instruments globally, and more so in developing economies. So I'm working hard in order to see how can we diversify this kind of reliance on that instruments. We have some good instruments for debt reduction mechanisms, including swaps that work nicely in countries like Seychelles, Belize, I would add to that the recent case of Barbados because it's not project-based, it's KPI policy-based. There is some good suggestions for building up carbon markets, taking ESG seriously and dealing with the problems of greenwashing, and finally how to align the budget of the state and municipalities with climate action and sustainability. So it's a it's a very rich agenda in which you can really see aspects related to energy and mitigation and decarbonization, including the hard to abate sectors, cements, steel and shipment, very much in the forefront. But again, the encouragement here while we are appreciating the specialization and the targeted focus by the specialists, but we need to put all in a more holistic approach given the kind of circumstances that the world is facing today. Over to Tony. Thank you very much, Macmoo. That is a very rich agenda and I can see that you guys on the process leading up to COP and indeed in the meetings are going to have very little sleep on the world's behalf as you try to take action on all these measures. And I particularly like the approach you took about bringing in finance, bringing in the debt reduction side, because of course that is another worry for the global economy at this present time. Now we have about 10 minutes for questions and we already have one question in the chat and please do feel free to contribute audience if you do wish to pose a question before we close in 10 minutes time. The question that's come in is from John Hicklin and John says on the specific issue of dealing with the waste of gas and Etienne and Catherine outlined that at least 7% of global gas is being wasted through flaring and venting. He asks, can the IMF bring its technical advice on taxing emissions into its policy advice in its annual consultations with oil and gas producers and Etienne and Catherine referred to the article for consultations and no doubt then maybe other processes that could be used as well. And then John says, could this provide a quick and practical way, emphasis on quick and practical to add some degree of accountability and transparency. So that's the question. We have some views on that but we've learned actually from the research that Energy CC has done that not only are we wasting a lot of gas but we're also losing a lot of public revenue because you know that gas can actually contribute to public revenues aside from contributing to energy supply. So, could I actually ask Matt Mood, do you have any, any views on that yourself Matt Mood. Well, naturally, this question was mainly a domain for MDBs and the World Bank to answer through some technical assistance and projects funding such activities in dealing with flaring and dealing with waste. And we had, I remember during my days at the World Bank there were many successful projects in Iraq and technical assistance was provided for countries which do not normally borrow from the bank including the GCC. So there were many good examples on that. The IMF has entered, quoting Kristalina the MD as a new partner in the climate agenda. And when it does that, it does that within its own mandate. At the end of the day IMF is a place for fiscal monetary policy dealing with balance of payment crisis. Given that the impact of climate and through exposure to the balance sheet of the state and the balance of payments to climate shocks, the IMF entered this field, but with an assumption to do this work with strong partnership with agencies and organizations and institutions that may have the comparative advantage in field work. Of course, when it comes to using a fiscal policy, that could be a good answer to that point I mentioned earlier that was raised by Professor Duflu the other day about changing behavior. You can change behavior through many things, long term through education, cultural change, but differently you can do it immediately through tax incentives and grants and credit incentives as well. There could be a consideration for that but the good part of this you mentioned article four and article four now is including sustainability and climate action as part of the article four reviews which is a comprehensive mandatory exercise that has great deal of value. Then I know that you tackled briefly the RST, the resilience and sustainability trust fund, but this will be only for countries with program for with the fund. You need to be eligible and qualified. Eligible, this means that you need to have a program with the fund. Of course, the first eligibility that you need to be a member of the fund, and this is the majority of the, all of the membership actually not the majority the membership of the fund, with the exception of three I think, then you need to have a program with the fund that's very few countries that do that from time to time. And then you need to be qualified in addition to your program of the fund so we have a standby agreement or extended finance facility. In order to have the benefit from the RST, you need to be qualified for that. That qualification could really be the entry point in which some sort of soft conditionality based on what kind of public policies are there in order to deal with some issues including how to implement better because the minimum is basically if your country would have an NDC, the National Determined Commitments and Contributions of the country. So at least you can just submit it and say, I'm going to apply it and not just going to declare it and I will not apply it so that would be a good tool as well to incentivize the promises and the pledges and the good intention that are there in the NDCs. I think that's a very good statement of the linkages and potential there of multilaterals. I'd just like to go back to Catherine Inetti and on this point about emissions in the gas and oil sectors. One thing that you've emphasized in the work for wider is just what a harmful effect these emissions have on human health. So in some senses, governments are saying, well, we're getting all of this nice revenue from our oil and gas. But of course, the population particularly has Etienne satellite images showed the population near the facilities is very much suffering from the particular matter and all the other nasties going up in the atmosphere. So in some senses, the health budget is going to have to spend more on that. So that's a bit of a net loss. I mean, can we think about ways in which we could help further on this issue. A country's really aware of the health damage from venting and flaring in the oil and gas sector. Well, perhaps I could jump in here. I mean to the point about John's original point about can the IMF provide transparency and through its technical advice. This is absolutely on the mark because what we set out is this four point model which includes transparency. It includes the regulatory measures, the fiscal measures. But it also includes the gas monetization and the measurement by satellite. So the technologies that satellites are deploying for measurement is extremely important. So I think that would be very helpful. Now the point about the health impacts on the local communities, of course, but where we see again is that given that you can spot exactly where these players are. We know exactly how much they're emitting. You can then design gas monetization technologies that capture that flare gas and provide energy access to the people we've been hearing from so eloquently. How many people do not have access to electricity. So this could be repurposed the gas for domestic energy supply. It could be reduced the health impacts because you've captured that and it would be air quality. Again, that whole air quality piece which the human health. So this is really, as we say, multiple benefits by deploying transparency, technology, regulation and satellite monitoring through independent measurement. But Etienne, let me hand over to you. Briefly Etienne because I want to give the last word to Matt. Yeah, very briefly. No, I think I can just echo what was just said. I think the transparency piece is very important. People are still in denial about what emissions do and there should be no reason for that now. I mean, the impact on VOCs on human health and black carbon on human health are established and now we can measure these emissions. So the debate is really, I think, around more transparency on the issue. So I refer to the BBC reporting on the impact of gas flaring emissions in Iraq. And I think it's this kind of knowledge that then spreads that I think is helping a lot. Particularly on the transparency on super emitters and is exactly what we aim to do. We try to get this population together of 200 super emitters. And then we can be very focused on getting the biggest bang for the buck in terms of reducing emissions and repurposing gas that can be used for much better use than just going up in smoke. Thank you very much, Edwin. So I'd like to give the last word to Mac mood to give us a sort of creed occur, you know, as we're heading off to all these meetings and discussions in your home country in Egypt and can you inspire us. What would your final thoughts and remarks be before you dash to your next meeting or initiative. Which is waiting for me next door there my next meeting, but let me be super fast. First on the health and development and climate and the interlinkages between them all. I think if this world is not reminded strongly after this and ask the experience with COVID of the interlinkages that there is nothing that we can be doing more to remind people of the interlinkages between the health sector, the economy and vice versa. There is going to be in one of the meetings at the cop, a report on health and climate establishing these interlinkages by evidence. And one thing that I found reading this report that the health sector itself in some countries is a net emitter. And that needs itself to be treated with and they and the contribution of the health sector to global emission is no less than 3.5%. So we need to do something about the health sector itself, of course, it takes a heavy burden in dealing with the impact on climate if there is a disaster like what we see in why 1500 health facilities in weeks. So the health sector itself is being impacted. People died because of the increase in global warming. There is an impact on nutrition. So all of these interlinkages are very much established and that again, lend support to our view of a holistic approach. And then but we for that holistic approach, we need some sort of comprehensive answers that starts and doesn't do not end with finance and the issue of climate finance and development finance and that could be an area of consideration for research. And I would like to ask Tony why there is this kind of unnecessary tension between the climate camp and the development camp. Why the climate finance people are not really interested in discussing development finance at the same time. Some people say because they are in fear that the issue of additionality could be compromised, but I think there could be other reason, including some sort of bureaucratic reasons behind that. Anyway, that would be discussed as well. I think the main thing that I would be expecting from from the cop, not undermining the importance of policies or institutions, or the science based kind of approach that if we're not going to be seeing investment finance and projects flowing where the mitigation and adaptation are required, we are going not to be seeing this kind of implementation that we hope for the issue of flaring great to be guided by satellites great to be guided by the most important technologies. And they showed me some, some of the work that you are doing on Nigeria as well. But if that is not going to be projectiles positively speaking here with support of data, and there is that new global early warning system that the secretary of the government is pushing, and that should is being done with WMO. And I know that they have many partners on that. This will be a new source of data. But again, we have this data, translate them into actionable measures, get the right finance and push through the leaders and the leaders and not necessarily politicians, otherwise we'll be waiting forever to get their act together, but there could be many solutions that could come from those who are in the field and expose directly to the trouble until we get the adequate support that we're after. But we'll see. Charm is going to be seeing all of these participants including political leaders, corporate sector leaders, but community leaders as well and thought leaders, which are as important as the others if not more in times of crisis. Thank you very much, Magmood. I think you've given us a very bold statement there and agenda for action. And I thank you very much and indeed Etienne and Catherine for the presentations today we reached the top of the hour gone a little bit above. And I'd like also to thank you the audience for attending. Please go to our website for the research that is behind this discussion this afternoon, and there is another wider event on the 22nd of November in the DRM series so please sign up for that if you if you would like to Thank you everyone. Wishing everybody a good afternoon or evening or morning wherever you are and thank you for participating in this event. And again, thank you to the high level champion who's now going to rush next door to his next meeting. Thank you.