 Hello and good morning everyone. I am Eleni and I'm here with Professor Tom Koyen from the Ken University in Belgium. Welcome Tom, good morning. Yeah, so for everyone that is listening today, Professor Tom was a guest editor for the Joint Dramatic Issue, past free care at the Fenns Congress 2017, but he's also giving a plenary lecture today at 2pm CT on metabolic adaptations as drivers for antibiotic tolerance in microbial bifilms. So without further ado, I will move forward and ask you the best question that I have for you today. Can you walk us through your current area of research and what are you investigating at the moment? Yeah, so I'm currently leading the laboratory of pharmaceutical microbiology here at Ghent University in Ghentem in Belgium. In this research group we have several research lines. The first one focuses on fundamental aspects of microbial biofilm formation. We try to get a better understanding on how microbial biofilms form and we're especially interested in gaining a more fundamental understanding in the mechanisms behind the tolerance and resistance to antimicrobial agents that we observe in these microbial biofilms. And from this fundamental part we try to make the translation to more applied microbiology as well. We try to translate these novel insights that we obtain in our basic understanding of microbial biofilms. We try to translate that into novel concepts for treating biofilm related infections. So that's the first research line and then a second obviously related research line that we're exploring in my laboratory as well is investigating the interaction between microbial biofilms and the hosts to see if we also in that regard we start from trying to get a better fundamental understanding in the factors that govern these interactions but also there try to make the translation to translate these findings into something that could be useful to guide novel approaches to treatment of various diseases. So that's in a nutshell what we do. So you mentioned about general life, but do you test that in specific pathogens? So what kind of pathogens are you focusing? Yeah, so we do research on a lot of different organisms. So maybe first I should say that historically biofilm research has really focused on single species biofilms, biofilms formed by one bacterial or fungal species. Of course if we look at biofilm related infections we often see that these are polymicrobial. So if you take biopsies or you take samples from infected patients and you look at these in the laboratory you will often find different microorganisms that live very closely together. So we gradually and the entire field is gradually moving away from focusing on single species biofilms only and so in a lot of our research we are using polymicrobial biofilm because we know that the interaction between the different organisms is actually important as well. And not only the interaction between the different organisms but also the interaction of the entire community with the host is important as well. So we do study quite a few different organisms. Now the thing is we have two I would say two main or maybe three but main areas of interest. So number one for sure is the respiratory tract. So a lot of the research we do focuses on respiratory tract infections. We have a keen interest on microbiology in the lungs of patients with cystic fibrosis which as you know these patients are very susceptible to respiratory tract infections and these respiratory tract infections are often biofilm related. So this is an important area for research. So that guides us a little bit towards the organisms that are frequently found in these patients. Pseudomonas aeruginosa is probably number one there. We do quite a bit of research on that one. But we also look at some of the I would say the not so usual suspects that we find there. And I have a long standing interest in in brokaldiria bacteria and the main bacteria belonging to the brokaldiria cepatia complex which are also respiratory or also pathogens that are found in the respiratory tract of cystic fibrosis patients. They're much less frequent than Pseudomonas aeruginosa. So historically they have been they have been under studied a little bit as is often the case. I did my PhD on these bacteria. I stumbled upon them really by by coincidence I would say and they've stayed with me for for my entire career so far. So that's also one of the reasons why we like to why why why I like to keep on studying them. Especially since there's still a lot to discover about these these bacteria. And so this is respiratory tract one focus. And then we also have a keen interest on biofilms in the context of chronic wound infections and then a bit more recently also an interest on biofilms and all kinds of all kinds of medical devices going from endothelial tubes to prosthetic joints etc. So we do study quite a diverse collection of organisms. What state was missed that you said about the polymigrobial biofilm. So I think it's it matches better with what actually occurs during an infection. So it's not often one bacterium that it's present but it's the interaction between two different ones. So that's very very interesting. So obviously we talked about different pathogens but for you what is like one of the most fascinating or your favorite pathogen and for what reasons. Well I think I gave it away a bit in my in my previous answer of course. No surprise there. Again I have been working with Berkeley Recipation Complex Bacteria since since 1996. I would yeah that's 1996 when I started doing my PhD work with Peter Van Damme. And so I think you know you start working on these organisms you learn more about them and it's a really and as I said I mean they stayed with me ever since it's an intriguing group of organisms. Why mainly because these are actually environmental bacteria plant associated bacteria that have some very interesting properties. For example they have very large genomes that is a bit at typical for bacteria. They have three chromosomes. So the genome organization is is a bit unusual. They produce a lot of secondary metabolites probably secondary metabolites they need for competition in the soil with other bacteria. And at some point these bacteria have been able to make the jump from from this this environmental plant associated lifestyle to to become a human pathogen. And these are really opportunistic pathogens they will they will if you're a healthy person without an underlying condition. They will not make you sick but for example in cystic fibrosis patients. They can have very I mean infection with Berkeley Recipation Complex bacteria can have a very negative outcome and can often lead to death of the patients. So it's that it's that two sides of the bacteria in your plant associated to produce all kinds of secondary metabolites. Have really interesting properties like antifungal and antibacterial properties but at the same time it's it's a pathogen that can have very very negative effects result in a very negative outcome for infected patients. So it's the different sides to to to the same bacteria that that make them that make them interesting. Talking about the mechanisms of resistance. What is something to share with everyone about antimicrobial resistance it can be related to the pathogens that you were studying but it can be also a general thoughts about antimicrobial resistance. Well I mean, there's a couple of things that are that are obvious of course but that are nevertheless worth worth repeating. Especially in these challenging times. So first of all, when we look at when we look at the numbers of antimicrobial or infections caused by antimicrobial resistance microorganisms. If we look at the numbers of antibiotic use we still see that this is high too high. So I think this is this is the number one concern. We recall we're of course all concerned and rightly so for the moment with with a certain viral infection. But but let's not let's not forget at this point that that's many people die every year worldwide due to infections with antimicrobial resistance antibiotic resistant microorganisms bacteria and fungi. And so this is a major health concern a major health issue that will stay with us for for many years to come. And so there have been estimates that that by 2050 actually worldwide more people may die as a consequence of an infection with an antibiotic resistant bacteria than than people that would die by due to cancer. And again I know it's kind of difficult to do these to predict these these numbers in the distant future. But if you look at these studies I mean it's clear that this is a problem that that will have a long lasting impact. So it deserves it deserves attention. It deserves continued attention in different areas. I mean we do need new antibiotics. So we do need new forms of partnerships between between governments super at the supranational level and pharmaceutical industry. That's one thing we do need to to make make general public but also people in various levels and various parts of health care to be very aware of the problem. And we need basic research. So I think we do need we do need investments in these areas we need investments and coming up with new antibiotics we need investments in public awareness. And we do need investments in basic research to figure out to get a better understanding on what is causing this and also to get a better understanding of potential solutions to this to this problem. It's a problem that's going to stay with us for a long time. So it deserves all the attention. It's not the coronavirus pandemic. Which kind of shows us that pathogens are really something small creatures that are hidden and we sometimes not pay enough attention to them. And sometimes they can we can be really bad for the environment for humans in general. So what do you think the coronavirus pandemic has taught us about how the scientific community response to crisis. What do you think we have learned. That's a very difficult question. I mean it's difficult and easy at the same time it's difficult to formulate a definitive answer. Of course it's easy because there's so many so many aspects to it. I think if you look at it purely from a microbiological point of view of course it's as you said I mean it makes people aware that there are microbes out there that can have a huge impact on our daily life. I mean as microbiologists we all knew that. The general public was probably not so much aware of that until the beginning of this year. So that's one thing. I don't think it's a good thing. That as microbiologists we will never have to convince people again that microbes can have a big impact. So that's a plus. Secondly of course what have we learned as scientists. I mean I think what we have learned as scientists goes broader than just microbiology. I think we have learned as scientists that it turns out to be extremely difficult to implement evidence based decisions. We have learned as scientists that it's extremely difficult to convey the scientific evidence to people in power, to governments, to people that make the decisions. That is not easy. I mean we have seen that in all different countries. So that is something we have learned as well I think. And we probably should, yeah, there's no solution. I mean there's no easy solution for that. But we probably should learn from this both as scientists but also to people in power, governments, people that make the decisions should learn from this as well. Is how that evidence based policies can be implemented in a better way than it has been done over the last couple of months I would say. I think as scientists we find it, we find it, what do you think it's? If there is evidence and you think it's the most logical thing to implement that and translate that into policy. What we have seen is that it's not the case and that is of that has been frustrating for scientists. And at the same time it probably has been frustrating for policy makers and the broader audience that the communication that comes from the scientist is not always been completely coherent. And because that's the way science works. We are a scientist. We are used to have doubts. We are used to discuss and look at things from different perspectives. But of course that doesn't translate well if you want to move to policy making or if you want to implement strict measures in public health safety, etc. So I think we learn a lot as we as we go but hopefully we will remember these lessons for for future prizes. I will now move to a more lighter topic because we talked a lot about the research and about AMR and COVID. So I know that a lot of attendees at this conference are early career scientists. So what piece of advice can you give to them having passed through that stage of your life and being an established researcher now? Yeah, that is a bit of a difficult question. First of all, I think general advice from me to a large group of people, I'm not sure whether you should follow my advice in general. But anyway, I can highlight a few points. I think this also goes back to my own career, of course. You always reflect on things that happened in your own past and try to come up with advice based on that. So that's also the limitation. But anyway, I think it's crucial that early career researchers, people that started research, you need to find a topic, something that really interests you. But okay, I mean microbiology is so broad and science is so broad. I mean, there's always going to be things that interest you. So probably rather than if you choose a direction to start working in, I mean, it's probably not so important or not so crucial that it's that exact topic because you want to work on that. But maybe what I think is probably more relevant is that you look at the research environment where you will be working in. This is something that has gained a bit more attention over the last couple of years. So I think good mentoring is really important and good mentoring can take many forms. So don't expect any specific advice on that from my side because I think I've personally had very good mentors that have very different styles. And so you have to find something that works for two parties involved. So if you have the possibility to talk to people that have been working in a lab before you joined that lab, talk to them. Talk to them and ask, okay, what is the culture here? How does mentoring work? Are people supportive here? Is there a positive lab culture instead of a toxic one? I think these are things that are very important. What you see is sometimes that people think, okay, well, this doesn't seem like a great place to work, but the topic is interesting and they have some high impact publications. And so I will be able to make a career here. But I think it's much more important that you work in an environment where you can be happy in an environment that fits you. And again, this can be different for different people. So this is not a general guideline like it should be like this, but you should find a place that matches with your ambitions, with your personality, a place that you think where you can be happy and productive at the same time. So that's maybe, I think that's probably the most important advice because if you start your scientific career in a good way, I mean, that's great. And that may create the right conditions for you to continue in science. If you start your scientific career with a very negative experience, then that's really a pity for all parties involved. So try to avoid that at all costs. That's probably the best advice I can give in that regard. Thank you for the advice. I think it's very important to especially now about the environment that we are in and to make sure that we have good mentors. So moving on to a very different topic and this is going to be my last question for you today. So who is your favorite microbiologist and why? I mean, I knew you were going to ask this question, of course. It's a tricky one. Yeah, I mean, I'm a microbiologist about the favorite microbiologist. No, I mean, I don't want to insult anyone. So I gave this, I mean, I gave this some thought and I think, you know, I decided to go with Bill Costerton. Bill Costerton was passed away a couple of years ago. So Bill Costerton was a Canadian microbiologist. He did most of his later scientific work in the United States and who actually was, I mean, was the pioneer or the godfather, whatever you want to call him, of biofilm research. So he actually came up with the concept of biofilms, published some very important, very influential papers early on in his career and stayed in the fields until the end of his career. So his scientific impact has been on the field where I'm working in has been enormous. So that by itself I think is a good reason to pick him. But on top of that he was a very generous person. I met him quite early in my career. So my first steps in microbiology were actually in microbial taxonomy. And so I switched to the biofilm field, microbial taxonomy, then some molecular epidemiology and I switched to biofilms a bit later. I saw the lights. Let's call it like that. And so I was making my first steps in that new discipline within microbiology when I had the pleasure to meet Bill Costerton a couple of times at international meetings. And so I had no track record in that field. Nobody knew what I was doing, who I was. And there he was, like the guru of the field. And he always had a very open mind, not only to me but also to other young researchers, people that came into the field. He was very approachable. He would give you advice. He would introduce you to other people. He was just very generous. And I think that, of course, that goes back to what I said about mentoring. That creates a very positive atmosphere. And I think that I like to think that that has actually set the stage for the microbial biofilm field. Of course, there are always discussions and not everybody gets along great. But overall, this is a field that is very collaborative, very open in terms of sharing information, very open in terms of setting up collaborations. And I like to think that that at least partially is due to the legacy of Bill Costerton, who started doing it that way. So for that reason, he is my favorite microbiologist. Very, very interesting answers for me today, Professor. So we started hearing from your career. We moved to antimicrobial resistance. We talked about coronavirus and some piece of advice for me for our early career scientists. So I would like again to remind everyone that Professor Tom is going to give a talk today at 2 p.m. CET on metabolic adaptations as drivers for antibiotic tolerance in microbial biofilms. So thank you to Tom for being here with me in this interview and I'm looking forward to hearing your talk. Thank you very much, Leni. Thanks, everyone. Bye.