 As a breakfast in Plasti, Biafrica, the unambursed state governor, Charles Saludo, on Friday visited the detained leader of the indigenous people of Biafra, Namdi Kano, the governor whose visit was part of a wider consultation with critical stakeholders in such a lasting peace and security. In the southeast set that iPop leader was in a very high spirit, Namdi Kano, who expressed sadness over the loss of lives and protest in the southeast called for restoration of peace in the state. He described the numerous deaths as sacrilegious killings of innocent peasants, killing kidnapped and all forms of criminalities including brutal enforcement of senseless seated-home other but were tweeted by sundry groups claiming to be acting on behalf of iPop. We have a guest joining the conversation this morning, Nika Gulley, it's good to have you join us. Good morning. Thank you for welcoming me. All right. Nika Gulley, what do you make of the statement and thoughts of Namdi Kano as regards the situation in the southeastern part of Nigeria? Thank you very much, Namdi Kano. I think before I comment on Namdi Kano, I would like to comment on Namdi Kano. I give him to those for taking a step to go and visit with Namdi Kano and also have discussions with him in his work to look for solutions to the security issues, specifically in the southeastern, particularly in a number of the way he is governed. I think this is what a leader needs to do. If security cannot be fought only with guns and bullets, there has to be discussions. Government will be willing to listen to agitations, to understand why Nigeria's cities will either take up arms against the state or have one grievance or the other, and see how this thing can be discussed and resolved. So to that extent, I want to thank Dr. Nasrub Choludo for taking this step. And now, back to Namdi Kano in terms of what he said, from what he said, he has totally absorbed iPod from the senseless killings that are happening in the southeast. He absorbs iPod from the secret home orders that have been introduced, all of that. I am not in the position to say whether Namdi Kano is telling the truth or not. That is a job for the security agencies and our law enforcement agencies to dig into the matter. If the Nigerian law enforcement agencies are so smart as to have gone all the way to Kenya to go and adopt Namdi Kano and repatriate him to Nigeria through intelligence, covert operations and everything that is put into it, that same security and law enforcement apparatus should be able to investigate the killing in the southeast and in it of somebody. Is that the feeling on iPod of which Namdi Kano is the leader or the feeling on the people that Namdi Kano alleges are the ones behind the killings? We cannot allow the killings to be going on and there is a threading of blames between Namdi Kano, the Tredra government. Because for the families of those who have been killed, this threading of blames does not happen. And for those who are in the southeast, they know that it can be anybody's turn tomorrow. And that same public security is not good for the country, is not good for the economy, is not good for the quality, is not good for the orderly conduct of society. So we have to have an resolution for this. All right, well said, Nick, I understand and like your opening salvo, but let's really talk about this issue of insecurity in the southeast. Just how far reaching do you think this particular consultation or wide consultation of the number of state governor, Charles Soludo, can really go to stem the tides? Yeah, so the issue of insecurity in the southeast is unfortunate, it's really unfortunate because for most of us, we just read it on the news, so many number have been killed, so many number have been killed. And we just want to the next breaking story. But for the families who are directly impacted by this killing, they have lost loved ones. A gap, a void, a gulf has been created in their life and they are living with this every day. It's not going to be easy to fill the gap that has been created. So these families are going through a lot of trauma. And Nigeria is not a place where a family such as such a tragedy and the government, the social services, send counselors to them to help them cope with the trauma. We don't have things like that. So lives have been destroyed, families have been thrown apart. This thing has to stop. That is the first thing that has to happen. Now, not to stop it. There is no one-size-fit-all solution. All of the valuable means to bring peace to the southeast must be explored. They must and have to be explored. We are the traditional citizens. They should pretend over their various communities. These people that come now, key security agencies, key citizens and all of that, they're not falling from the sky. They are living within communities and the people in those communities, they know them. When they go and commit atrocities or come back, they are aware of this. And this is where the traditional institution needs to open. It provides the necessary information to the security agencies. Even before they do that, they can call these people to talks, to the ground table and say, this senseless killing doesn't make meaning. There are other ways that the officials can be satisfied. That is traditional. You have the government at various levels. There are local government and there is a state government. In all of the southeast, in all the south-east states, you have five governors, you have three. All right. I think we have lost him. We'll try and reconnect with him again. So, Massey, I really needed to find out just how far this consultation would go because he talked about blame trade. It's iPop. It's not iPop. Those trying to masquerade themselves as I spoke. At the end of the day, families of these victims, they are yet to get closure on all of these killings. Closure can be a very big and sensitive issue, trust me. It can be difficult when people want to get closure. And that might just necessarily be what they need at a time to just end it. Maybe the closure, the found of that, okay, this is what it is and this is also involved. And then we have a declaration, I mean, arrests being made and what have you. But it still brings us back to the point where we would have to talk about where is the place of the pleas? Because it looks as if every other time that we leave, we constantly talk about, oh, it feels like it's a helpless situation. Are we really in a helpless situation? Isn't this a government? Don't we have the security architecture that's been put out to ensure that at the external level, you have the military who saddled with responsibility of ensuring that the territorial integrity of the country is protected against external aggressions. And so you come to these, you know, internal affairs of the country, then you respect that the police started with our responsibility. So whether or not this IPOP is not IPOP, somebody's parading or masquerading and impersonating where is the place of the police, the Nigerian police force in all of this, why haven't we have? Is it that we have been overwhelmed and overcome by the happenings? It is really, really sad. And fine, you know, when you asked O'Penney about what he made about this mechanism position, he said it's another true face that except he has repented, you know, because he had initially gone out to the public and said that those who, or those ebos too, who do not support him the cause, you know, should be killed. And now he's saying that he is not aware of the killings going on in the South, that it is not IPOP. And if on the seat at home order allegedly being, you know, done by the IPOP members, he knows nothing about it. Yeah. So like I earlier mentioned that he calls for a little concern. Prior to this time, we should have been very observant. So you look at the patterns and the behavior at the time where you had IPOP coming out to say, hey, I mean this IPOP, there's a group called IPOP, indigenous people, up until when you have the government saying they have been prescribed as terrorists, I mean the prescription that was on. Right. You should have actually looked at how was the pattern, well, how was the behavior activities, what really happened at the time and juxtaposed that what was going on really to understand. There's been a disclaimer. If you have a disclaimer that's been put, it means that the security agency, it means that the Niger police was, should get to walk and find out who are these persons behind. If the IPOP is saying that we're not responsible for this, then who is responsible for all of this crime and criminality? Like he's rightly said, Nick, that these are, you know, they were, you know, very organized as it is to go to Kenya to, you know, Nambi Canada as it is, that they should also go the extra mile to do their job and ensure, you know, those who are behind this particular killing, through the masquerade or not, they would be brought to a book. I also must commend him, Chancellor Luto, for the initiative that he's taken. He is just, his belly spent three months in Nambi Canada. This would score him a political point. You know, well, maybe. But the fact, what I'm trying to say is that I think maybe because the seat at home is actually more prominent in Nambi Canada, but I think this issue of Saudi's security, you know, the Saudi's leaders, governor, should come together again. There was a time they did and they came out with a bubego, you know, to stem the tide. But ever since then, I don't know how far a bubego has gone. I think they need to meet yet again to discuss this issue of killing, sir, in the Saudis. I know it doesn't just happen in a number of states. It also happens in Nemo state and some other eastern states. They need to come together, you know, forge a common front and find possible solutions to all of this. So there's been a lot of speculation as to some persons were responsible, carrying all of these activities out. I mean, at a time, you hear some governors having a hand in the insecurity in the region and in some states. My concern is if you have a region, let's be very honest. Let's put the cards on the table. I mean, the cards on the table. And let's look at the conversation. If you have a region who's saying that this is what we're calling for, these persons are asking for a republic. They are asking for self-actualization. They want to be self-sufficient. I mean, they just want to be independent of the entire system. That's Nigeria now. Should it not be a consent of, you know, the center? Should the center not be concerned about this? Why have we gone through? So why is the center not concerned about this? These are questions that I ask myself on a daily basis. And I don't know. I'm sure that it might just also be a Nigerian question. Why is the center not concerned about this? A group of persons are saying that we have been marginalized. We haven't been carried along. What you're asking for, we want to be. We want to be on our own for several reasons. And why haven't we had a conversation if we're very honest with the mode of a Prandi? I mean, we're saying that, okay, we don't want you to go away. It's not compulsory. It's not compulsory. It doesn't state anywhere that's compulsory. As a matter of fact, as an individual, I do have a right to denounce my citizenship as an Nigerian. That's what we need to know. I can decide to say I don't want to become a Nigerian anymore, like I want to denounce my citizenship. The constitution guarantees all of that. And so it is not a betrayal. It is not contrary to the law. But why are we treating all of this? Why is the center not concerned? And why has the center not incorporated this? We've had a constitutional review. Why has this not become a crux of the conversation? Why has the Ninth Assembly not considered all of this? And with the fact that you have this governance and House of Representatives and senators in a different part because you're also part of the system? What's going on? What's going on? But we have Nick Agulier back on air or on the air. Thank you for staying with us, Nick. Yes, thank you. We're talking about issues. Some days are just like that. Mercer and I have been, you know, making conversations concerning all of this. The agitation in the South is self-determination, the place of the leaders, and why the center is not listening to all of that. But I asked the messy, the place of the South is leaders in all of this. You have rightly said that Salud should be commended for what he's doing so far, consultation and all. But don't you think the South is leaders have to even do more to forge a common front? Yes, they have to do more. Me in a federation called the Federal Republic of Nigeria, that is made up of over 200 or more ethnic nationalities. So we are not homogeneous. Even that, it becomes imperative that if any equal nationality feels that they are better outside the Nigeria federation, then we have to be, they have to be given a voice. They have to be given a voice to be heard because refusing to give them a voice becomes imprisonment. I mean we are personally holding them to be part of the Nigeria federation but not against their will. But how can they be given a voice? The only way to give a voice to any nationality that agitate to leave the federation on Nigeria is through a referendum. But unfortunately the constitution of Nigeria does not have a referendum. Clearly we are very clear about this. The constitution we operate, the so called nationality constitution, this is a contract now that will put together by the leaders who we are intending to transmit from Taki to Agda. They couldn't have given us the civil constitution that will challenge their power. The military are not knowing, are not known for that. All these why, for 42 years now, what we needed is for the national assembly to actually take this constitution apart and rebuild a four pack democratic people constitution for Nigeria that grants the city rights such as a referendum, death determination. Because if we have a referendum in the constitution, then the referendum will become if the majority of subcontinents in Nigeria decide they are wherever they are, all over A and B, in the 30 states of Nigeria, they want to go back to the five states of the country so that they can form their own nation. But then again, so that one wonders what happens with all the moves that has been made to ensure that this issue of a main security in the south is brought on there. First of all, the governors met sometime last year and they talked about Ibubago and all that, but is that still nothing has changed in recent times? Then what's the essence? Of course. We have been disconnected with Nika Gully. So the conversation would continue and we would have the back and forth and I always would like to ask, I don't think it's because we don't understand the dynamics and we don't understand the implication of all of this as a people. We have stakeholders, you can't take out the government from the equation. We understand it, but there's no willpower, there's no political will, if you want to say, to go ahead with the actions. The problem with us is not that we don't know what the problem is because usually you ask yourself, is it that we don't understand what the problem is? I mean, is it so difficult? Is it rocket science? Because rocket science is very possible. The question is, do we have the backings? Are we honest with our thoughts and we're looking at the conversation? Are we even really honest with the people that we say we have been elected to represent our interests, this person's elected us to represent because that's the proclamation that's been made. And so yes, I was elected president, I was elected governor, I was elected whatever house of representative member and what have you bought is that in its true sense. So what we're doing, are we leaving up to that expectation? That's a really hard one. We know what the issues are. We are not doing all that we need to do and Nigerians are just dying by the numbers and the police and the security agencies are not really being proactive about this and yet lives should be lost by the day. It is really very sad what's happening in the south-east, what's happening across Nigeria in security, generally, with the killings here and there, the banditry, the kidnapping. I just wonder when we'll get to that point. I remember growing up, kidnapping was really alien to us. The issues of terrorism and the banditry was not even close. We only just watched it in movies and see it in western films but I don't know how we got to this extent. Because we're evolving as a people? We're punishing us for our sins. No, nobody's punishing us. We're evolving and it's part of humanity. We're evolving. We're interacting with the global community and we're also not paying attention to the consents that we have as a people. For instance, let's look at the 23s here and we have a lot of persons who are saying they want to become president but how many persons are paying attention to the real issues. So we have seen presidential aspirants who have come out to say, I want to continue from where he stopped. What does that even mean? Because if you continue from where he stopped, where did he stop? What is going on with where he stopped or where he started? These are the issues. People feel that they're not part of the system and we understand that when you had the amalgamation process, the fact that you had the regions come together. So you had governance at the time, not the way it is. So you had a regional government, you had a regional system and then we had the amalgamation of the southern, the eastern, you know, everyone came together 1914 and yay, we became an entity called Nigeria. But a lot of persons do not feel. So we have seen a lot of things that have divided us and further divides us as a people. So you don't even know where to start because the issue of security, if you want to deal with it, it's encompassing. It's not just limited to the fact that you have a group of persons who don't believe in a certain thing and so you say the Boko Haram is on one side. You also have security from the issue that people don't think that they should be together. Whether or not it's iPop but you have a group of persons who have decided to say when not, we don't want to be as an entity. Some persons have decided to impersonate these group of persons and then they begin to commit crime and criminality. These are issues which you care. I mean, so it's a lot from security issues, from the fact that people, unemployment is also an issue. So you have crime and criminality happening from unemployment. You also have the fact that you have to deal with a group of persons. You also have the fact that some persons don't feel that they belong and what is the government doing if you look at how resources. Because you have a government. Government came into existence for a certain purpose and we exist. The government is in existence for a certain purpose. People have decided to give their will and say we will submit our will to government and that's why it's barbaric for people to take the laws into their hands. Because you have a system and that's why it's wrong that someone would feel that all my religion has been blasphemed. Someone has said evil against me. Let me take the law into your hand. It therefore shows that the government, the essence of governance and government has failed and that's why people are taking the laws. It's not supposed to be so. That's why you have government and that's why you have governance. So let's get back to the drawing board. But with all that's happening, you look at those who are aspiring to become president, nobody seems to be saying anything. It feels like there's a disconnect. Don't we understand what's going on? How do we solve the problem? All right. There's a whole lot of that is really bedeviling the country and the fundamental issues that we need to go back to the drawing board, like Mercy has said. If this is the breakfast, we'll take a quick break and we'll return with more. Stay with us.