 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we are joined by Tikhanda Singh Pawar, former Deputy Mayor of Shimla and is also a candidate from Shimla Urban Constancy for the CPIM in upcoming Himachal Pradesh with Hansa by elections. Welcome to NewsClick, Tikhanda. So first of all let's start with what is the vision of left vis-a-vis these elections. CPIM is fighting 11 seats. So you mean the vision for the state? Yes. Himachal has a very interesting characteristic as far as the development of the state is concerned because we were a predominantly backward state with very low production base as far as industries are concerned. And that's when we got statehood in 1971. So what is the model that should have been adopted? Congress, in fact there was a movement down below which was led by the communists that meant land forms movement. But it was completely taken over, I could say, I can say hijacked by the Congress and then Dr. Weispar Maher. And he played a very pivotal agenda which I can mark was literally left of center, left of center. Where large scale land forms took place. At the same time we had a huge development of social infrastructure. Now can you imagine Pranjali in 1980s we were 100% literified. Every village and if you visit Himachal you will find that the density is very low. Some house would be a kilometer away, just once in the house. Even there those poles were erected and the electricity was taken. At the same time you had education, you had health infrastructure. This all continued till the 80s, 85s, till 90s I would say. When we just swung to what we call the neoliberal power where the FRBMs, the Fiscal Responsibility Emergency Management Act and see the political repercussion. That is very interesting that has happened. The political repercussion is so you developed a very strong social infrastructure with a very strong stimulus and support of the state. And of course which was given by the center, there was hardly any private investment so no private capital came. They didn't even have the capacity to do that. So it was the center that really helped the state. But post-85 you see once the state started withdrawing, once we just swung to another form of developmental model. You will find after 1985 every government lost. So even stalwarts like Veer Badrasingh or P.K. Dumlu, they couldn't repeat their governments back. Those issues still remain private. So what are these issues? The issues are that the people look at the state government as one of the major investors, one of the major areas that are going to help them out. That are going to help them out in emulating their problems. For example unemployment is a huge problem. But let me just say one very small example. When I said that we were 100% electrified in 1980s or 1985, I guess the number of people that were employed in the electricity department. There were just 6 lakh subscribers, maybe 6 to 6.5 lakh subscribers, but we had some 23,000 workforce. So 45,000 workforce. Now we have 23 lakh subscribers but the workforce has gone down to 15,000. It has declined while the demand has increased threefold. That's the new concept. So you have to reduce your fiscal deficit. How do you reduce your fiscal deficit? That's how the FRBM enforce all those MOUs and all that you sign. I'm in focus that the fiscal deficit should not increase more than 3% of your state GDP. So what is the way out? And the Centre said we will not give you a grant if you do not. The way out was do not fill your waking posts. That's why we find, forget about the 1990s baseline. Even today if you find there are more than 1 lakh vacancies lying in different departments. So social infrastructure is the major issue here. That's one. The sick thing is, as I told you because the huge infrastructure ones you create, that also creates a middle class, that also creates consciousness amongst the people. Post 2004, all those who are employed and still we have a large number of people who are employed in government departments, health, education, electricity board, I think the number would be around 3 lakh. So post 2004 all are under the NPS. So all that glossy picture came after 1990s where your money will go to the stock market and then you will have inflated pension stuff and you will have a rise in pension. Now they are realizing someone who is drawing a salary of 80,000 rupees lands up getting a pension of not more than 4000 rupees whereas the person should have got 40,000 rupees. So that's a major issue and it's not that it's come out of the blue but they fought down and the government actually completely mishandled it. The BJP is completely a worse to it and they targeted the people and of course they took it head on, the BJP government. So there's tremendous, tremendous fear or if you just talk to the government employees against the government and on this important issue of. And third I think also what is important because the state as I told you is a very characteristic state. So forget about the communists, I can even tell you some of the congress leaders, even Dr. Parmaran who hijacked the communist movement altogether I can say, when he retired he went back to his home in a bus so he had nothing. So that corruption was not seen here, politics was still kind of clean politics. No, not clean, something that you have to serve and even madam Stokes I mean from Tioke, she had a very clean image. Likewise Gaur Sahib in Congress, I'm talking about congress leaders. Gaur Sahib whenever he used to contest from Kulu, he used to lose a part of his land. Now people gain land once they, so you know people are actually easily, they can easily understand the kind of corruption, the kind of money that is flowing in and it's not just one but it's like even the BJP in Congress. So I think that's also a very major issue. People are looking at people who would be of course on these major issues but also corruption is a way and we've seen how the police recruitment scam was highlighted and of course they had to just get rid of the paper. So taking this as going back to where you had started from that how communists played an important role in the movement and made sure that Himachal had social security and all that. Communists have been there in the movement throughout, they're always on the streets. We've witnessed various movements regarding apple farmers, regarding students but still the presence of the communists in the assembly has been limited to one since last assembly elections and there was no candidate before that. So how do you see CPM as an alternative force right now in Himachal? Okay so let me just put this question three phases. The first thing is actually the earlier communists, they were there in the assembly, I think we had six or seven, that was the undivided communist party. So post-64, the biggest loss I think the communists got because of the split in the communist movement and then the new form of the communist movement that you're talking about is like post-1980s. So this is the this is the manifestation of ISPY, so you know the ISPY is formation took place in 1980s and we've been winning the elections in the universities. So you know there's a whole bunch of people coming from that period, be it Singha or be it Kashmir, Thakur, be it President John John and of course many others, I mean not just to name a few. So they still represent that student knack, they've not been able to really and they mean we have not been able to go back to our base and base. It's only recently that some breakthrough has taken place in the farmers movement and also in some of the workers agitation particularly in the hydropower but this is insufficient if you talk about taking Himachal as a whole. Himachal is very wide, Himachal is very diverse. You just go across the state and you come to know the kind of diversity languages so I think the two view left as an alternative right now would be too premature to utopian as well. Yes they have reasons because of the students movement because of ISPY, we are everywhere. This transformation will take a little more time with the way things are precipitating, the way things are unfolding. It's just that I think we as left we have to go back to the people and try to just build movements which are pan state, we're still restricted to building movements limited to particular regions. So we are more of that regional stuff not a state as of now. So it takes some time. So let's now come to your constituency which you are fighting elections for, Shimla, Arban. What are the key issues that you are pinning your hope on? Because as we know Shimla, Arban has been, it's a centre of Himachal politics right now and we've seen water problems here, we've seen road transport problems here, you've been a dipty mayor yourself of the city. So where are your hopes right now vis-à-vis Shimla? See I'm really enjoying this election for the first time and you won't believe Pranjil because Shimla is completely pedestrianised. And if you just look at my watch, so it measures my footsteps. By the end of the day I've finished walking around 24-25 kilometres and this is not a, I'm trudged up and down, you know, climb stairs up. So I'm really enjoying this because of three major reasons. One is there's nothing against us. So people are really fond of us when we visit them. The second thing is that the five years of the BJP triple engineer, the municipal corporation, the MLA who is also the minister and the central government, they have actually put the city on the head instead of putting the city on the feet. I'll try to explain that. And the third thing is that people are also comparing our work when we were in the municipal corporation leading that institution. And the five years. So they're saying, yeah, you were damn honest. Whatever you've done, you brought the smart city, you brought that water project, but they were completely, completely messed up this town. And I think the primary reason is why they did so is because we went to the people. So there is no people's interaction, the interface between people and governance was completely missing in the city in the last five years. So actually people's participation was completely missing or completely absent. Also because of the reason, because BJP has a very strong nexus with the contract. So most of the contracts take, for example, the smart city. I was instrumental into writing the smart city. And of course, the financials we worked out, we were one of our former finance secretaries, Mr. Baldy. Then we had one additional commissioner. So three of us actually, we were very instrumental into writing the smart city. And we all always had this impression that water would be the first thing that has to be addressed. But the people said, no, we went back to the people. They said it's mobility. You see, Simla had never seen traffic jams. Now you're starting traffic jam for two hours. And the smart city was to address this. How are we going to address this? Here apart from horizontal mobility, it's vertical mobility, which is extremely important. Because if you see the altitude difference, you go to a place called Ramnagar, focused on widening the roads and, you know, erecting those retaining walls where massive money was spent. And can you believe the smart city was, money was spent on, I think one crow was spent on planting flower pots in the forest. Have ever seen or heard that? You have a forest, a beautiful dense forest, and you plant flower, you know, flower pots there. So they have ridiculed the entire concept. And people are realizing this. At the same time, whatever was been, we were able to do, for example, on solid waste management, we were able to reach out to 99%, 95% to 99% of the houses. They have kind of dismantled that. So that's, that's me. Another thing which, which they have not been able to handle at all is, you know, this was something, I don't know how, how, how, how is it continuing Punjab? But, you know, the whole question of drugs, it's a very major issue in the town. The parents won't come to you. But I have seen, because I've been visiting the houses where mothers talk about their children. They don't want to come in the forefront, but they say, well, what is the future of their children? For the simple reason, many of the young, bright boys and girls have been addicted to that. And in a recent survey, we found out that the major reason, the primary reason for this is unemployment. So it's quite integrated, you know. So, so yeah, when we're going back to the people, I'm enjoying the campaign, but at the same time, it's very frustrating also. Because, you know, the issues that are coming up are really serious. So since we are running short of time, concluding remarks on your seat and overall the Himachal Pradesh elections, why do you think, as you have said this? I think the GDP is going to lose. It's for sure. I mean, come what may, the kind of money that they're going to pump in. And the second thing is which, which people have to realize, they're also angst about the Congress people. You know, they say, even, I mean, the Chief Minister has been openly proclaiming, in fact, it's an admission of their defeat. They're saying that even if you do not win, we will form the government. What does that mean? So, you know, there's certain people who would, I like they've been able to, they've been able to just win over one of the important Congress functionaries recently, Mr. Harsh Majan, who was like an idologue for some of the Congress. Yeah, few people who are my age or my contemporary, you can say. So, it's a very interesting thing. So, we'll have to keep vigil, the people will have to keep vigil, not to elect those people. And I think the left is definitely going to have a better presence. We should jump from one. We were one, definitely we're going to go, we're going to get that seat. But I mean, I can galvanize the mood of the people. They are definitely, they are wanting more because, you know, the five years has seen, I mean, all those, for example, the old pension scheme, which is very important, very major issue here. So, they've seen how the left has fought. And of course, the, the wavering standard, the Congress in 2003, if we just link some of the videos, you'll find the most ardent advocate was Congress. But now Congress is realizing that, you know, this is a very major issue. And that's why in two states, they've already gone ahead, even the Alma de Pati in Punjab. It's a very major issue. So concluding remarks is BJP has to go, it is going. People have to keep vigil that some of the people who get elected shouldn't just jump over, so elect good people. And I think the left is going to definitely increase its strength. Thanks a lot, Tickinder, for giving us your time and we wish you all the best. That was Tickinder Singh Pawar, former deputy mayor of Shimla and a candidate of the CPIM for Shimla Urban Constituency. Keep watching news click for more such interviews and our coverage of Himachal elections. Thank you.