 The DeFi team has just published the DeFi Bible called The Wall Street Errors Over, Decentralized Finance, DeFi is Finance 3.0. It is the future of finance. We've been in it from the start and this is just the beginning. Do you wanna stay safe and earn a high yield on DeFi? Get the book, get it before it increases currently only for the first two weeks $1.90 and this is just the beginning. Hi, how's everybody doing today? I am your host, Rich here on behalf of RichTVLive with our very special guest, Michael Rosmer. How are you doing today, Michael? Doing fantastic, Rich. Great to be with you today. Great to have you on the show. Michael is a international tax expert and co-founder of DeFiYield.app. And DeFiYield is the world's only safe DeFi cross-chain asset management protocol based on machine learning. And you are an author as well of this book, correct? The team is the author of it, yeah. I don't want to take the credit, but I contributed to it, so. Okay, so you contributed to this. This is an amazing book called The Wall Street Era is Over, an essential guide that covers all DeFi details and throws light on all of its secrets. The DeFiYield team has just published the DeFi Bible, The Wall Street Era is Over, the DeFi Testament on How to Stay Safe and Earn a High Yield in DeFi is Out. The DeFi Bible has arrived, The Wall Street Era is Over, it will become the DeFi Testament for many people in the years to come. Decentralized Finance, that's DeFi and or DeFi is Finance 3.0, and it has just begun. We've been in it, the DeFiYield team has been in it for years and truly believe it will totally transform the global financial system in the years to come. How to safely earn high yield in DeFi? These are gonna be the questions they will answer in the book. And for the first two weeks, the book will be on launch price of $1.90 by before increases. So Michael, is it possible to hide crypto from the IRS? Great question, great question. I mean, it's getting harder and I would generally recommend not doing it just because the nature of the blockchain which is so awesome, but also challenging is that it's a public ledger, right? Anyone has access to it. And so the truth is, some things are really complicated. I talk to clients all the time who are like, hey, with all the yield farming and ICOs and ICOs and all these things I've been doing, like good luck with the IRS figuring it out because I can't figure it out. But that being said, over time, they're gonna use machine learning to go and figure out big data analytics to scour the blockchain and figure out who you are and make connections. And so I recommend don't try and hide it from the IRS. Instead, try and find some legal ways to minimize your tax as much as possible. Very good, very good. And does the IRS know when you're selling or buying crypto and if so, how? Typically they don't know. However, just for the first time this year, you were asked to declare whether you bought any crypto, whether you sold any crypto and we're starting to see this in a variety of different countries around your tax returns, you have to declare, do you own crypto? What are your wallet addresses, things like this? And so as soon as they got a database, you were wallet addressing it. Now they can monitor every transaction that goes in and out of there on a lot of the major blockchains, maybe not Monaro and things like this, but a lot of them. And so as a result, yeah, it's gonna become more and more that they'll be able to figure it out. How are crypto taxes calculated? This is a great question. So it depends a little bit on how you earn it. And so you coming from a trading background would be really familiar. If you're doing long-term investing, then that's often quite different than if you're doing short-term trading. So we have kind of earned income, short-term capital gains is the language in some places on the trading side, whereas if you buy and hold, then it's sometimes a long-term capital gain. So in Canada, you can get the 50% reduced rate. In the US, you get something similar, you get 20% for now, but I can just talk about basically doubling it. That's about 44.3%. So that's not so good. Germany, over a year, you can get nothing. And then you have other types of income that you would get or other types of, based on the way that you earn the income. So for example, if you're staking, if you're yield farming, if you're lending, then that's earned income. So usually it's partially earned income and it's partially in the form of potentially long-term gains. Now, interesting thing is that some countries tax it differently. So for example, some of your audience, one of the things that's really popular right now is for people from UK and other parts of Europe to move to Portugal. And in Portugal, they don't tax the change in price. Basically they treat it like a currency and they say, hey, if you had British pounds in your bank account and it changed price relative to Euro, we're not gonna tax you on that. And they treat crypto the same way. So after full-time trading, yeah, it's amazing, right? It's fantastic. I'm Portuguese, so I might have to go back home. I didn't even know that. Maybe, yeah, absolutely. No, like if you have a bunch of crypto that you're like, you bought Dogecoin at two cents and now it's whatever, went up to 70 cents. And you're like, this is a good place to cash out. In France, if you're trading, they don't actually tax you until you convert to fiat so you can convert between cryptos for years and years and just compound your portfolio. Not paying any tax on that. In Cyprus, they have no tax on the sale of securities at all. So that's pretty good. So yeah, it's just like a lot of the time when I'm talking to people, they're not just talking about, hey, how does it get taxed, but how do I pay less tax? And so then it's like, well, you maybe can go someplace that it's a little more favorable. Fantastic. And do I need to report crypto on my taxes? If you have gains, then in most places, yes, you do. It depends on where you are, but yeah. Usually holding it, not necessarily, right? Usually if you buy that's not a taxable event, but when you sell, usually that will be. And again, in some places, if you switch say from some sort of a coin into a stable coin like Tether and you trade back and forth, maybe that's not reportable, but in some places that even is as well. What kind of tax am I expected to pay on my crypto? So, I mean, like I said, if it's short-term, you're earning it regularly, then you're typically talking with full earned income. It's just, that's what it is. It's earned income basically. And if you're in a situation where you're a hardware, you are hardcore for the long-term, then you're gonna be expected to pay capital gains on it. Okay. And I have some transactions where I didn't sell my crypto for regular currency. So for example, I sold some Ethereum and bought Bitcoin instead. Do I need to pay taxes for such a transaction? You know, most of the world, I would say you do. So again, it's always country by country, right? You get the example of France where they don't have that. The US didn't, they have something called the like kind exchange until like 2018 or something. And they got rid of that now. So at this point in time, most of the time, yes, every time you change from one to the other, unfortunately it's taxable that would be in Canada, that would be in UK, that would be in Germany, that would be in a lot of these places. Now, go ahead. Maybe we're a few countries like Netherlands, they do something called box three income where it's kind of like a wealth tax. So if you're making a ton of money off it, it's an outrageously good deal because they tax you this super small percentage of your total holdings, not based on the transactions. So another really interesting nuance depending on where you go. So another cool thing was I've recently and in the past been paid for services or for work in Bitcoin. So how do I report this income given that the price of crypto keeps fluctuating? I mean, I was being paid last year in Bitcoin when it was at 10,000, then it went to 60,000. So how does that work like with the fluctuations? Yeah, so normally what it would be, and this is a, you kind of need a tool like DeFi yields to keep track of it. So go and connect your wallet or something because in theory what happens is you get taxable at the moment you receive the money. So whatever the price is, and of course the problem is like you said, it's fluctuating all the time. It's not even the same for one exchange to another, right? There's a little difference. So you'd be taxable when you receive it based on the current price and then any change in price, you'd be taxable as a capital gain when you actually sell it. Okay, okay. So if I am mining cryptocurrency, do I have to pay self-employment tax and what expenses can I deduct when I report my taxable income? So I would recommend for a lot of people who are doing crypto seriously, right? They're yield farming, they're mining, they're doing these sorts of things. You probably want to set up a business. You want to be able to write off all your expenses. I mean, you deal with that all the time just generally in life, right? It's way better for us to spend our pre-taxed dollars than our after-taxed dollars. And so then you can write off the cost of your electricity and the cost of the mining equipment, et cetera. So that's something. And there's a really interesting thing taking place in the US right now. A guy who's mining tasos ended up suing the government saying that in his opinion, because what happens is what they've decided right now is that mining income is income, right? It's like, okay, you're earning income. But his argument is if you're running a farm, like a real farm and you're growing produce, you're not taxable on that until you sell the produce. And he's like, this is the same. So we're going to see how it goes in the courts. It would be really cool if all of a sudden you could defer and just be earning this mining income and pushing that down the road for years and years until you sell. I mean, I know of a guy who had $100 million worth of Bitcoin he'd mined over the last 10 years or something. So imagine that. That would be incredible. Cause a lot of people that are in the crypto space don't ever plan to sell. Exactly. They're just, this is hodling. I think there's a huge amount of hodlers in the crypto space. And that's why some prices have increased. Yeah, yeah, I was reading some stats that it's like over 70% of wallets or something are long-term wallets. And some of those might be people that have just lost their wallets or lost their wallets and they don't have access to them, right? True, yes, that's a whole other thing. There's a whole business in there if you can figure out how to crack the encryption and go and get some of those keys. Yeah, that would be an incredible business right there. So the IRS doesn't specifically talk about the tax treatment for cryptocurrency that you receive in a hard fork. Do I need to disclose this in my tax return? Well, I mean, so this is an evolving area of reporting, right? So let's forget about the idea of like what you have to report and just talk about tax. I mean, technically you received a growth on your investment. Now, it's debatable. I would, if I was gonna do it, I would say that's increasing my, like I would add that on or to start with my cost base, right? So let's use an example in 2017, you had Bitcoin was forked to Bitcoin cash, right? Everybody who had Bitcoin all of a sudden got Bitcoin cash. I would basically have reported that as a capital gain long-term because I would say, okay, well, it was really just a growth in my underlying asset. It's not like I got paid something. That being said, if you were to get into it, they might debate it with you, but you're likely gonna get away with it by doing that. Okay. And this is an important question. So let's say I have not been reporting my crypto investments in my tax returns for several years. And I think this is almost everybody. What can I do about it now? All of a sudden now everybody's got to report, nobody's been reporting for all these years. Now what can we do? Run for the hills. No. No. No. No. I mean, again, you know, it depends a little bit on the country that you're in, but there is some cases, streamlined reporting stream, basically is streamlined filing you can do to kind of get caught up. And they have some ways that they can enable you to, you go through that process. It's, well, in some of the cases, the reality is it's gonna be tough, right? You're in Vancouver. I mean, Quadriga, the exchange was there. They went down. Einstein, the exchange was there. They went down. You know, you've had tons of exchanges. There've been exit scams, obviously, Mt. Gawks, the famous hack. There's like so much that's been chaotic over the last number of years that who the heck can keep track of all this stuff? You might not even know, like I went and I found an old wallet of mine that I hadn't paid attention to until like I think last November or something. And I was looking back, I'd used it to actually pay for some things online back in 2015 or something. And I'm looking at that thing that used to be $200 to say I got $60,000 or something, right, as it fits. And so, you know, like you might not even think about that, right? Where did it come from? So, I mean, you have to kind of put it together and try and do the best you can to get caught up. But that being said, it's gonna be pretty challenging. Unfortunately, the tools are getting better going forward to make it easier for you. How are cryptocurrencies taxed and how do taxes work with crypto? What do you mean by that distinctly from any other asset? Correct. Yeah, so usually they're taxed pretty similarly to other assets. Now again, it depends country to country. Like I said, in Portugal, they have rules specific to crypto. In Thailand, they have some rules specific to crypto. In most cases, they get taxed like securities. So if you're paid in them, then it's considered earned income, almost like somebody was to, you know, transfer you stocks or something in lieu of something like that, basically trade a good in lieu of cash. And then otherwise it's taxed as an asset that, you know, is appreciating or possibly be appreciating in value depending on, you know, when you bought. So this is a question I'm sure a lot of our audience is very interested in. So do platforms and we use Coinbase here a lot and Binance. So do platforms like Coinbase or Binance or and Binance report to the IRS or the SEC? Yes, yes, they do report to the IRS. Obviously they report, you know, in the country that you're in, right? So, you know, there's some people who maybe have another passport or something like that or maybe never declared their Binance account. One of the things that has happened is Binance has gotten into some trouble. They now Binance US separate from Binance and you know, Americans who are going and using BPMs to log in in order to try and get, you know, perpetual futures and better trading pairs and more liquidity and things like this. So that definitely does happen. And in that case, they don't know to report because there's no KYC, right? But in so far as a bunch of these exist, Coinbase, Kraken, a bunch of the major exchanges will report to the country. In Canada, the IRS or the CRA has made a big point of going after like, what is it, is it Bitstamp? And then what are some of the ones in Canada right now? The one I use is Endax. I don't know if I'm going after Endax, but that's the one I use. I know CoinSquare is here in Canada as well. Yeah. But I like Endax. I've been using them since 2017 without any problems and they've been really good to me. So I know they do report. They do report, they've been reporting since day one and that's why they're still in business. There you go. Yeah, that's like kind of a trend, right? Just more and more of the tax departments are saying, hey, listen, you have to turn over the information of all your users, at least users from our country. And I would expect that that's going to, it'll be pretty much unanimous or universal, which is another thing about DEXes, right? If you're using decentralized exchanges, there's no reporting because there's nobody to report. That's right. That's right. What's the most common misconception crypto users have regarding taxes? It's a good question. I think one of the biggest ones that I hear people say that they don't seem to understand is usually like every crypto transaction is a taxable bet, right? Every time you sell. And so maybe you did a ton of trades. I was talking to somebody the other day who I don't know that do 10,000 trades a year or something, right? A lot of trades. Yeah, exactly. And so they have this mindset of like, hey, my tax could add up to more than I've earned. That's not true because you can also claim the losses on the other side, right? So it goes both ways. So that's a good thing for you. I think that's a common misconception. I think the idea that crypto should be or is taxed somehow differently from any other asset is a common misconception. I see a lot of common misconceptions around certain countries. Like it's really popular right now to go to Portugal. That's like in the crypto community, lots of attention to Portugal. And the thing is Portugal has a good treatment if you're a hodler, but if you're somebody who's earning off staking, off yield farming, off mining, off daily trading, things like earning it through crypto, then it's basically treated as earned income. So people seem to have some misconceptions around that. Those are pretty common. Yeah, those are a few of them. So big news just came out where treasury calls for crypto transfers over 10,000 USD to be reported to the IRS. What does that mean for crypto? Oh boy, it's a good question. I mean, it's not different than a lot of other assets, right? We've been having things and rules forever or for quite a while at banks. Now it is, at this point in time, those regulations that are proposing are only for businesses. So fortunately, between you and I, when I send you crypto or you send me crypto or whatever, that's not reportable. That being said, I mean, there's a good chance they'll go down that road and they'll start saying, hey, listen, you know what, we wanna know about all these transactions or they just identify all the wallets connected to you and then it's all public on the blockchain anyway and they can just have a computer go through and identify all the transactions that went into so and so's wallet there. I think that the whole host of regulation that they're bringing on crypto is a bad thing. So to me, banks are bullshit. They're really ruining themselves. The whole AML story is basically they've created this big boogeyman to go after and they've spent enormous amounts of resources which mainly affect little guys, right? Small businesses and private individuals. I mean, Apple and Microsoft don't care about AML rules, right? It's easy for them to have a whole department to take care of it. So it's no big deal for them. And so I think crushes competitiveness. I think it adds bureaucracy and inefficiency to the system. crypto is all but weeding a lot of that stuff out. And so it's gonna be super interesting to see how they can go down on Coinbase, which is now a public company, Kraken now has a banking license. Nexo is talking about getting a banking license. They can go after those guys, but how do they go after it if you're talking about decentralized finance, right? Where you're sitting there and you're doing every transaction through a decentralized exchange and wallets can be spun up like that. And how's that gonna be handled? It's gonna be really interesting. It's gonna be quite a battle over the next five to 10 years, I would guess. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see if that's gonna actually help create more mass adoption because in my opinion, in order for mass adoption to happen, it has to be regulated because the government, not that I want it to happen, but the governments which, you know, the government's control everything really around the world, they don't wanna lose control. And this is essentially them losing control, right? So in order for them to maintain control, they're going to wanna regulate it, which in my opinion will create mass adoption, but I don't feel like we'll have mass adoption until it's regulated. Because otherwise that's a government's essentially just giving up control. And I don't think that that's gonna happen. I mean, it's gonna be interesting to see how much governments want to have autonomy between themselves though. That's gonna be a really interesting one, right? Because in my perspective, what's happened is they weaponized the financial system. And I think one of the things that happens is you can control to a certain extent and that's fine. But when you try to calm it down too hard, it creates the opposite reaction, right? When people wanna escape, which is basically the whole impetus behind something like Bitcoin, right? It came out of kind of the 2008 financial collapse of what it ate abusing and all this kind of thing. So I think that they will definitely wanna try. And it's one of the reasons why when PayPal, to me kind of this full run was really initiated by PayPal saying, hey, we're gonna allow people to buy. And I would tell people like, don't buy through PayPal because you don't control your own crypto, right? PayPal controls your crypto. And governments are gonna be super happy for you to buy crypto through PayPal, through your brokerage account, through all the traditional custodial means, right? It's like, hey, listen, if you wanna treat it as an asset, they have no problem with it. That's fine, it's reported as control. It's when you want to send it to friends and family and receive it without any sort of interference, that's really gonna help. An issue with, I think probably what you're gonna see is they're going to give out licenses and encourage a lot of big institutions to say, hey, yeah, sell it to your clients, provide custody, provide all this stuff because they know they can control those guys, right? It's really hard to control all the individuals. But if you wanna control JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs, that's easy, right? It's like, great, we have a main place to go, it's a public company, we have an executive, we can arrest if he doesn't do something wrong, right? That's right. And so that's probably the direction that we're headed. And I don't know how far that will go because the flip side of it is, Iran is spending money on mining Bitcoin because the US has basically kicked them out of their financial system. And so, do countries want to give up that sovereignty that they can achieve by controlling their own crypto? I don't know, that's really interesting. And then the other thing about it that's kind of crazy is obviously the Elon Musk tweets were out whatever it was a few weeks ago where he mentioned the environmental thing. Kevin O'Leary is talking about the same thing, right? About like, hey, listen, how was this Bitcoin mined? And one of the funny things is Bitcoin is actually not truly fun to write. Every Bitcoin has a history. You can follow back the entire history of that Bitcoin. And so that will weigh in on, you may end up getting some sort of a divide of like the more valuable Bitcoins and the less valuable Bitcoins because these ones are allowed to be in the regulated system and these ones aren't allowed to be in the regulated system. It'd be really weird to see, like, will there be a schism in that way? I don't know, it's gonna be a crazy space to see over the next awhile. It's been a crazy space since I've been in it and since I remember watching Bitcoin go from 1,000 to 21,000, then down to 3,000. Now we've seen it go back to 64,000, back down to 29,000. Today it's at 36, 37,000 and everyone's trying to predict where it's gonna go and I'm like, nobody knows where it's gonna go. Nobody knows where it's gonna go. Nobody can predict where it's gonna go. But what we do know is over time, Bitcoin is going up. And I think the number was, I don't know if this number is correct, but I think since the beginning of time it's up like a million percent. Like a ridiculous amount. So if you had got in early stage, it was less than a penny. And today you're holding Bitcoin at over 36,000 US. You're up a staggering amount of percent, like over a million percent. It's mind boggling. So when you look at a chart, yeah, it's gonna have its ups and downs is extremely volatile. But over time, this is an asset that just consistently grows similar to the S&P 500. S&P 500 over time, it just keeps going up. Yeah, there's ups and downs and there's crashes and there's COVID and different things that make it go down. But then it just goes right back up. And with Bitcoin, one of the things that I love about Bitcoin and Ethereum specifically, those two coins is they've got tight coin supplies, very tight coin supplies. So with mass adoption coming in and everyone buying and getting a piece of the pie, that's going to over time, just bring the price higher just through simple supply and demand. Because there's only so many Bitcoin for everyone to get. And there isn't that many for everyone to get. There's only 18 million in the world. So because there's only 18 million right now, that tells me that there's not enough for everyone in the world to even have one. So because of that, that's gonna drive the prices higher, in my opinion. There'll be volatility along the way, but in my opinion, this is an asset that will only go higher due to the fact that it has a tight float. Same thing with Ethereum. Where should, and you've mentioned this a little bit and obviously you talked about Portugal, where should people move in order to pay less tax on crypto? We know about Portugal. Any other secret hiding spots or places that people should go? I mean, so the popular ones, okay, so if you're an American, then the popular one is Puerto Rico. So it's the only place Americans can go unless they renounce their citizenship. And to be fair, more people are calling me than ever to buy second citizenship and go and renounce. So that's a whole frame right now. Yeah, it's like exploding. This being said, probably the four most popular places that I've seen this year are Portugal, Cyprus, Dubai, so UAE and Thailand. And each of these has their own little nuances, like Dubai is just plain zero tax, so that's great. Then Portugal has their little things. Cyprus is a little bit better, but I think people prefer the lifestyle in Portugal most of the time more, but tax-wise technically Cyprus is better. And then Thailand has some weird rules that can allow you to pay basically zero tax if you structure it properly, but it's not quite the same. So yeah, those are the most popular places, but there's many that people are going to go. That's where I would kind of start by looking. So Biden, since he's come into power, is really getting his hands involved in everything and he's growing the budget to control crypto taxation. What do you think about this? Oh man. I mean, I can understand what he's up to, right? It makes sense to me kind of, I think he said he's increasing the IRS budget by $80 billion. So a lot of XG wants to increase the audit rates dramatically and so on and so forth. So yeah, I mean, I get, you've probably seen this, right? Is there is a growing gap between people who are making lots of money and people who are not making lots of money. And I mean, the thing that nobody's talking about is there's a lot more people who are making a lot more money. Like crypto is a fantastic example of this. You think like maybe a year ago or so, the market cap of all the crypto was less than a trillion. It went up to over 2.5 trillion. We're talking about adding $1.5 trillion of net worth to a pretty wide range of people. I talked to just a high school English teacher who has never made a lot of money and is suddenly sitting on multiple seven figures. I talked to people from all kinds of different, somebody who's an artist who's creative who's never really done anything crazy and now they've got a few million dollars and so on and so forth. So in that sense, it's pretty democratizing, right? In terms of wealth. But then those people discover that, oh, hang on a minute, the government wants to take half of that from you or some crazy number. And yeah, so I mean, I think more and more what you're going to see in the world, this is just not a crypto thing. This is a broad thing. Is that if you, Rob Peter, anyone who wants to rob Peter to pay Paul can always rely on the support of Paul, right? And so, you know, you have a group of people who are saying, hey, this isn't fair, you know, so you should be paying your fair share and we're going to go after you. And I think what we're doing is we're doing a lot of really dumb things. We're doing a lot, we're giving free money to people and basically encouraging people a lot to be productive. And at the end of the day, we need real productivity. And this is a time where it's never been easier for people to relocate. Hey, like you can go all over the world. You can get residency permits. Tons of countries have digital nomad visas now. You can go and you can work from a laptop from anywhere. And as a result, a lot of the people who are most enabled are leaving and you have global competition for the people on the other end, right? You're sitting in Canada. Well, the reality is my brother works at Electronic Arts in Vancouver and they've got a studio in China and most of the work gets done in China. At some point in time, you're just going to say, okay, well, why are we hiring people in Canada, the US and Australia and UK and Germany? We can get somebody for one fifth of price somewhere else. That's going to drive down wages locally, which is going to put more pressure to see where we get the money. We go to the people who have money. And those people are then going to say, hang on a minute, I don't want to be mistreated. I'm going to leave. And then it's just, so it's a tough situation right now, which is why I think a lot of people are coming to me saying, hey, listen, I want to buy a second passport. I want to get a residency somewhere. I want to set up banking outside the country because I don't know what's going to happen if I want to be prepared in case it does happen. So NFTs, non-fungible tokens have just taken off. I personally don't get into it. I'm not an art collector. So I think the whole thing is nuts. But it's obviously on fire. It's hot. It's like the new hottest thing. Are NFTs taxable? Yeah, so NFTs are an interesting one because you can look at them from three different perspectives, right? The first is that of the creator. And by the way, I don't know if you've seen Gary Vaynerchuk did an interview with the bank class. Pretty interesting what he's doing with NFTs for basically like tickets to his events and all sorts of stuff that goes off. And so it's worth checking out if you're at all interested in the subject. But so if you're the creator of the NFT, then it's going to be, if you sell it, it's like you sold a piece of art, right? You're an artist, you're a piece of art. Okay, you make some money. Then there's the person who buys it, right? And I mean, look, at the height of the NFT craze in February or whatever it is, somebody would buy an FG one day for a dollar and sell it for $120,000 the next day. It's just ridiculous, right? Crazy. So yeah, so that's a capital gain, right? When you're talking about that. The third most interesting thing, this to me is like the main kind of coolness about NFTs is artists now have the power if they produce a piece of art and the NFT gets resold to get a royalty every time it goes from one person to the next. And so potentially that could be considered royalties and come has special rules around it. That can, for example, if you're in Portugal, they have something called the non-virtual residence which means like a special tax status for you for 10 years, you haven't lived there over the last while, royalties are then tax free for you. And so that's pretty cool, right? So there's other consequences of it, but yeah, you have those three ways and it's gonna be really interesting, the kind of innovation we see over the next few years. Wow, Michael, this has been an amazing, amazing interview. You've gone through all of these questions and answered them very, very carefully and constructively. And I think that this has been a really big breakthrough, I know for me and for our audience to learn more about taxation, where to go, how to pay taxes, what type of taxes to expect and essentially just learning more about the cryptocurrency and the DeFi space. Once again, for anyone that is watching, go and get your book, Wall Street Era is over and anything else you wanna say to the audience that's watching before we say goodbye, Michael. I mean, if they want more information, they can go and check out, I have a YouTube channel, Offshore Citizens, they can go and check that out and go and see if we have, you know, videos every day. So tons of content on this subject specifically. Definitely go and play around with DeFiYield.app, you can connect your wallet there, it'll track your portfolio, show it for you, show you all the transactions. We're the only ones in the world that have some really cool features in order to help kind of keep your investment safe from rug pulls and hacks and scams and things like this. So a lot of really cool things happening there. I would really encourage people to go and check that out. And yeah, that's a kind of follow along, Jeffrey, check out the book. If you're interested in DeFi, to me, DeFi is gonna be a multi-hundred billion dollar industry over the next few years. And so, you know, it's like the internet in the late 90s. So maybe you missed the internet in the late 90s. Don't miss this. Thank you so much. Michael Rosmer, the co-founder of DeFiYield.app. I'll put a link to your YouTube in the description of this video once it goes live. So anyone who's watching can get access to your YouTube as well. And remember, if you guys like this video, please smash the like button, comment down below, share the video everywhere and subscribe. Rich TV Live is strictly for information education purposes. Please do your due diligence, do your research before you invest in anything that we talk about here in Rich TV Live. Always invest in the best, the best is blessed and you deserve the best. Thank you for watching. If you're not winning, you're not watching. We bring you the winners here in Rich TV Live and we bring them to you first. Thank you for joining us, Michael. Thank you for watching everybody. Have a nice day.