 Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. It's my pleasure to welcome you all to this session of Financial Planning Day on Saving for College. This session is presented by the San Francisco Office of Financial Empowerment and our Kindergarten to College program. My name is Nicole Agbayani. I'm the director of the Office of Financial Empowerment. And I'm joined today by my colleague Mohan Kanungo, who is the program manager for the City's Kindergarten to College, or K2C program. Huge thank you to our hosts today from the Financial Planning Association and the San Francisco Public Library. We really appreciate all the work you've done to pull this fantastic day together for us. Before we get started, I also wanted to share a quick housekeeping note. We are recording this session. And we will make the recording and the slides available to everyone after the event today. All right, so taking a quick look at our agenda, we're going to start off with a brief introduction to the Office of Financial Empowerment and our programs. We'll spend the bulk of our time talking about our Kindergarten to College program, how it works, and what some of the benefits are of saving for college with K2C. And we'll share some related resources at the bottom half of the presentation around some programs, including Cal Kids, some student debt relief, and a bit about financial coaching. And then, of course, we'll have time at the end for questions. All right, so first off, just to briefly introduce, San Francisco's Office of Financial Empowerment. We are a small but mighty team that is housed under the umbrella of the Office of our Elected Treasurer, Jose Cisneros. Our mission is to support the economic security and mobility of all San Franciscans. And we spend a lot of our energy focusing on lower income folks in the city, and in particular on programs and initiatives to support low income families. We've been doing this work since 2004 here in the city. And fast forwarding to today, you can see on the slide here some of our flagship programs. We'll spend most of our time today talking about Kindergarten to College, but we also have smart money coaching, which offers free financial coaching to anyone who lives, works, or receives services in San Francisco. Our Bank on San Francisco program provides access to safe and affordable bank accounts for folks in the city who are unbanked or underbanked. And we also run a number of pilots and initiatives out of our office that aren't necessarily full-fledged programs. So for example, we've done a lot of work to support the city's guaranteed income pilots since the start of the pandemic. And we've recently also been doing a lot around student debt relief for San Franciscans. So I'll be back a little later in the presentation to talk more about some of this. But for now, I'm going to turn it over to my colleague Mohan to introduce himself while I tee up a short video for you all. Hi, everyone. My name is Mohan Kanungo, and I'm the Kindergarten to College program manager. I've been with the City and County of San Francisco's Office of the Treasurer for just about two years. I'm super excited to be here to talk to you about a college savings initiative that I think is really fantastic for any K to 12th grade student here in the San Francisco Unified School District. But if you don't have a student in the district, we'll be sure to tell you about some initiatives here at the state level just launched called Cal Kids and what's also known as 529 Scholar Share. So in just a moment, we'll play a short video to give you a sense of what K to C is all about, Kindergarten to College. And we'll be sure to take time for your questions as we go through this. All right, ready for the video? In 2011, we launched the Kindergarten to College program to open up college savings accounts for all the kids in our public school district. I feel happy to know that I have saved a little for my children. We actually offer cash incentives. If you make a deposit, we'll put even more money into your college savings account. We have the possibility of having double the amount that we save. Saving makes me think more about college. When I grow up, I want to be a veterinarian. Awesome. So we'll overview next what K to C is. Kindergarten to College is part of the office of the San Francisco Treasure. And we launched over 10 years ago in partnership with the San Francisco Unified School District. And what we do is we open a savings account for every student kindergarten to 12th grade. And we actually seed that savings account with $50. And we offer awards and incentives that encourage families to grow their college savings over time. We'll go to the next slide. And part of the premise of this program is really based on research that shows that just by having a savings account dedicated to college savings and a child's name can increase the likelihood of them going to college and also being more likely to graduate from college. And these differences are really pronounced, especially for lower income families. It helps in many ways to facilitate that college going mindset when there's even a small amount of money, even as little as $500, that really helps spark that conversation and makes it known for a student that we believe in your future. And so with sitting County being the one that actually opens these accounts automatically for students and seed it with $50, we're saying to all of our students that you have a future we're saving for. And we'll go to the next slide. So today, in terms of our impact, we've really grown this program since our launch and we have over 49,000 accounts. About 23% or about one in four of those participants have actually contributed their own money, meaning they've deposited money into this account. And the total amount saved is $11 million. That includes both contributions, personal of families and students, as well as money that we've matched or we've seeded initially. What I feel particularly proud of is that two thirds of that money is actually participants money and a third of that is coming from the next slide. So some key features of the kindergarten to college account is that there's absolutely no fees. There's no minimum deposit, no monthly maintenance charge, nothing of that sort. Part of the design of the program intentionally was that it would have no impact on public benefits. So in fact, we don't collect a social security number or ITIN number, which is an individual tax ID number. We open these accounts automatically for students. And so it's not necessary to declare this as an asset on applications for public benefits. We offer a number of deposit channels for them specifically. So you can go into a local city bank branch to make a deposit, say with cash or with a check. We actually have deposit days sometimes at city bank branches that allow students to actually go in and practice putting in money into their own account. So at a city bank branch one way is to be paid, oops, where you can check, drop it in the mail, just write your student's account number on the back and it gets routed and then deposited into the account. You can sign up for bill pay through your bank. So we have some instructions on how to select kindergarten to college as the recipient. And your bank will either complete that payment electronically or send a check. And you can sign that on a one-off or recurring basis. And finally, if you have any payment you receive electronically automated for direct deposit to have some of those funds automatically deposited into that child savings account. These funds as well are dedicated for college. So it's restricted in that you can't withdraw the funds unless there's a financial emergency or hardship in which case we can give you the money back but otherwise the money is gonna stay there specifically for college to make deposits and engage with the account. And when that student graduates, we distribute the funds and we're super excited because our oldest students now our initial cohort of students are actually seniors. And so we are gonna have the rubber hit the road and actually have the opportunity to distribute thousands of payments to seniors this year. And we're super excited to also evaluate the impact of that. And lastly, a key feature of this account is that you can view your balance online. So when you do send in that deposit or go into a branch you can actually log in, view your balance see those transactions. And in fact, we reward or incentivize that action. So if you register and create an online profile for the first time we'll give you $20. And every year that you log in and view your balance we'll give you $20 just by being engaged with that account. We wanna reward and acknowledge that you're participating and sparking that conversation with your student. And if you have some questions we'll make sure to take time at the end to answer all of those. We'll go to the next slide. And you heard me talk at length here but just to kind of recap it quickly the four ways. I wish I had a way to do a pop quiz quickly but one is to visit that local branch. Two is by mail, three is direct deposit and fourth is bill pay. And so we have some details there about what you would need to perform each of those actions. Like you'll need an ID when you go in to make a branch to pop as it you'll wanna write in your account number on the holidays. Almost like a stocking stuffer if you will or pass it out for a birthday if you wanna give an account rather than buying a gift that's one strategy some families use. Direct deposit, we have a downloadable form. So I want to say your payroll department and they'll sign you up that usually might take a one or two payment cycles for that to go into effect. And then as I mentioned, bill pay is what you sign up for your bank on your bank side. You can do that typically online and you can do it on a one off basis. So you don't have to commit to doing it with a set frequency but if you're comfortable doing that you could do it once a month every two weeks or whatever is comfortable for you even small amounts really add up over time. We'll go to the next slide. So some of the ways that you can earn the incentives and awards that we talked about include when we open an account for the first time you can get a $20 bonus or award by making a deposit of any amount. So if you're a kindergartner we're gonna send you a welcome kit in the mail in November and it's gonna have your account number and it's gonna tell you to act quickly make sure you make a deposit before the end of the school year. And if you deposit $1 or $20 or $100 whatever deposit amount you put into that account just by taking that first action we're gonna give you 20 bucks. We offer everyone every year a $20 matching incentive. So if you put in $20 we'll match it $20. It's a dollar for dollar match up to 20 bucks. We have something called the growth incentive which functions similar to interest. It's not interest technically but based on the value of the contributions you've put in you'll get a small amount awarded every month. And then as I mentioned earlier we have this incentive that encourages you to log in view your balance online either for the first time when you're registering that account or once a year. And these incentives change every year simply because beyond that $50 seed that everyone gets we fundraise additionally. So last year we actually had a really big incentive that awarded folks up to $100 by making a contribution. If you made contribution of any amount you'd get $10 up to 10 times. So we will do some creative things like that as well. And we have particularly an equity incentive we can go to the next slide that's really intentional for students in particular schools and neighborhoods. So in a moment I'm gonna drop in a link to some of the things I shared the how to make a deposit brochure that we have so you don't have to remember everything I said and also our incentive flyer. But now I'm gonna kick it back to my colleague Nicole the OFE director who's gonna share with you some really exciting resources as well. I think actually Mohano, lean on you for Calvin. Sorry, I made a mistake. Thank you. So we have some additional resources that are still college savings related. And the first one is with ScholarShare 529. So I see there's some questions or comments here in the chat that again we'll get to in a moment at the end. But to help share what a 529 is, 529 refers to the tax code that actually creates an exemption to have this type of an account that provides tax deferred growth or tax tax free growth on the amount that you put into this account. So as long as the funds that you contribute and then you withdraw are gonna be intended for college education or post-secondary education for the beneficiary the growth that accrues over time because this is an investment vehicle will not be taxed. And that's at both the federal and state level some states because 529s are set up and sort of sanctioned by each state even though it's underneath the federal tax code there's a way with other states if you happen to move or live elsewhere that there's some additional benefits as well but there's no, there isn't a tax deduction it's really about whatever money you put in the growth over time being something that you're not gonna have to pay taxes on. And specifically here in California we have our program kindergarten to college that's sanctioned by our local treasurer Jose Cisneros but then we have at the state level the 529 scholarship program that's sponsored by the state treasurer and they have some really cool, exciting incentives. For instance, if you're a lower income family that has an adjusted gross income of $75,000 or less you might qualify for this $225 matching grant and there's also particularly with our program an opportunity if you want to save in both K2C and ScholarShare 529 to contribute to our account earn those incentives that we talked about and then at some point maybe when you have a balance of $500 or $1,000 you can choose to move that over to the 529 account at ScholarShare. We do that really seamlessly. We can wire the funds over. It's also an opportunity if your student ever leaves the district San Francisco Unified then we can transfer not only the money you've put in but those incentives over to a 529 so that you can grow that over time. And there's not a silly question so I see that from Erin but we'll make sure to get to it. We'll go through the next slide and then one really exciting initiative that just launched this year is what's called Cal Kids. And so actually Governor Newsom announced this and Governor Newsom was then mayor when K2C started. So he actually attended our anniversary celebration recently and gave the preview about this really exciting announcement and there's two parts to Cal Kids. One is an at birth initiative for newborns. Every newborn after July 1st who's born in California is gonna receive a Cal Kids account with $25. That's regardless of income, right? Every newborn. The way that basically works for newborns is that about 90 days after the child's born the birth information is relayed to the California Department of Health and then the state is able to actually send a notification in the mail that tells you about this account and how to view your balance online. And when you view your balance online or say connect it to a 529 you can start to earn more than that $25 really quickly and have up to $100. So you can get more than that of course but they have some incentives there that get you there really quickly. There's a second part of this that's for low income public school students throughout the state of California and that gives you an award of $500 to $1,500. And there's two parts to that for school age children. So if your child was enrolled in public school last year including they were a senior and graduated but first to 12th grade as of last school year they should receive by basically now or the end of the year a letter in the mail that tells them whether they have $500 to $1,500. And that amount ranges based on whether or not their low income in which case they get at least 500. If they are also somebody who's been part of the foster care system then they'll get another $500 and if they've experienced homelessness then they'll get $500 additional. So that's how you can get at least 500 up to 1,500 if you are considered a lower income public school student and typically that would have been assessed through what's called the free and reduced lunch form that was typically collected by the district from families to allow for funding for a lot of different programs at the schools and that's how they will know if your student is low income or not. So that was because of COVID there was an influx of money at the state level everyone across grades that was low income got that and we'll hear about it. And if your student just comes into the district or is coming into first grade every year moving forward first graders are gonna be able to get this as well. And yeah, Cal Kids is very specific to California in that the funds have to be used I believe for an educational institution in California of higher education, but five to nine scholar share or K2C is not restricted in that way. We'll go to the next slide and now we're gonna hear from my colleague to share more of those resources and particularly maybe for some of you that have student loan debt or thinking about that. So there's some really cool announcements so Nicole, Mike is yours. Thanks so much Mohan and I'm gonna switch gears just a bit here for a couple of slides to share some headlines around student debt really for you all. So the first program that I wanna highlight is called the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program. This is a federal program and it's designed to benefit public servants who work in government, nonprofit or public education and are paying down federal student loan debt. So the program allows eligible borrowers that have a balance to have the balance of their debt forgiven after working 10 years in public service and making 10 years worth of qualifying payments. We're a couple of days away from the end of a one year temporary waiver program in which the requirements around PSLF were made more permissive so that more people in the country would be able to qualify to receive debt forgiveness. So that temporary waiver period does end on October 31st of this year. So just two days from now. If you're just hearing about this for the first time I think two days is a bit of a tight turnaround to get all of the requirements fulfilled for submitting an application before the end of the waiver period. But that said the link on this slide that I'm sharing now and this presentation will be shared with you afterwards. This link points to our website where we have another great webinar we've recorded that takes folks step by step through a guide of how to apply. And I think it would be really useful if you think you might be eligible and you wanna watch that and see if you think you can get all of those steps done in the next couple of days. So all of that said, I also wanna reinforce that the end of the temporary waiver period on October 31st is not the end of the program. So once again, public service loan forgiveness as a program will continue after the October 31st deadline. And so if you're someone who works in public service and who has federal student loan debt then this is absolutely a program that we want you to look into and make sure that you're aware of. And what you would do is essentially take steps annually to certify each year of your employment in public service as you work your way towards meeting that 10 year requirement. So either way, our website is a great resource to take a look to learn more and see if you might qualify. Also on the topic of student debt I wanna share a couple of announcements that have been in the news a lot frequently. So I'm sure you've heard as well. So the first is that all federal student loan debt repayment which is currently paused it's been in a status of forbearance since the start of the pandemic. So the end of that payment pause has been repeatedly pushed out during the pandemic it's actually been pushed out eight separate times as the pandemic has lasted longer than all of us anticipated. And so I want to make sure to make everyone aware that that final extension of the deadline will be the last one. And so our latest extension takes us through December 31st of 2022. So the end of this year. And after that date, so effective January 1st 2023 a federal student loan debt will begin it will resume again in terms of repayments becoming due. And so just for everyone to be aware that repayments are coming down the line in January of 2023. And then finally the second piece that I have here on the slide which is the most exciting news is the Biden administration announced over this past summer that it will be forgiving student loan debt of up to $20,000 for eligible federal student loan borrowers. This particular program is a one-time measure. It's estimated to support approximately 45 million Americans that will receive either full or partial relief. So we're excited. And we think this will be a real game changer for folks in order to determine who is eligible the Department of Education is gonna look at income from the years of 2020 or 2021 whichever one is lower and they will provide that relief for individuals making up to 125,000 a year annually or households making up to 250,000 annually. And if you qualify with your income and you were a Pell Grant recipient you'll be able to take advantage of the full $20,000 in student debt forgiveness. And if you were not a Pell Grant recipient you will be given $10,000 in forgiveness. A couple of things to note about this program are once again that it's a one-time benefit. There is an application process to be able to take advantage of it and that application will be available from now. It's currently available all the way through December 31st of 2023. So we have just over a year for folks to apply to take advantage of this debt forgiveness. It is currently available online and we've taken a look at the application. It's very fast. It takes about five minutes. I think you don't need to create a login or provide any kind of backup documentation without initial application. You simply need to complete about five questions and then hit submit. I do wanna take a quick note. I'm sure folks have seen in the news that there's been a court order around this program that currently has the program paused. I wanna clarify that despite the pause in the program the application is still open. And so if you are eligible you should definitely still apply for it. The Department of Education is still reviewing folks' applications and essentially the court order temporarily prevents the administration from dispersing relief. And so they're teeing up everything up until the moment that they can disperse relief and will begin dispersing relief as soon as the court order is resolved. So the bottom line is definitely continue to apply if you're eligible. And then a final note I'll make on this is that if you're someone who qualifies for one-time debt relief and that debt relief would completely eliminate or cancel the rest of your debt the Department of Education is really encouraging folks to apply soon. They've set a goal for themselves of having anyone who applies before this November 15th of 2022 that to process those applications so that in an ideal world folks will never have to start repayment. So come that January 1st 2023 beginning of repayments the administration hopes to have those applications processed already so that you don't even have to get back into starting to repay and you don't have to worry about it. So these additional organizations that I've listed here the Student Bar Protection Center and the Student Debt Crisis Center are subject matter experts that our office really leans on for updates around this. And we sometimes partner with them to do webinars on more extensive topics. So I would say I definitely encourage you to link to their websites as well when you get this presentation if you wanna learn more. And of course you can always stay in touch with our office OFE for the general updates as they come as well. We'll be watching it too. And one last program I wanted to take a little bit more time. So I mentioned this at the top of the presentation but really quickly wanna take a moment to also plug our smart money coaching program. As I mentioned, it's San Francisco's free financial coaching program. We provide services to anyone who lives, works or receives services in the city regardless of documentation status and in multiple languages. The coaching is free, confidential, one-on-one guidance that folks really help to guide themselves. They make a plan with their coach. And you can see some of the things that we address there and particularly if you perked up and thinking about some of the student debt issues this is things that our coaches have been helping a lot of San Franciscans on this past year or just generally wanting to make a plan for savings and make a plan for saving for your kids college. That's definitely something that we can talk to you about as well. And so you can see it's as easy as calling the number on the slide or visiting us at our website to make an appointment. And we highly encourage you to take advantage of the service. So I'll pass it back to Mohan to finish out the presentation and then we're excited to dive into your questions. Thank you, Nicole. And sorry I was sharing some links so I just dropped in the couple correct links there. So we'll make sure that you have them for both debt forgiveness generally and public service loan forgiveness. We share the smart money coaching one but we'll reshare it as well in a moment. And just wanted to wrap up with some of our contact information and first to share some of the testimonials we have. One of the cool things we have with kindergarten to college is also besides those incentives we have different arts and poetry contests. We have a summer virtual college tour. We get to collect a lot of our students' stories and that's what's really powerful I think in being able to do this work. So here we hear from one student who says in the future I wanna attend a better university and be successful. Saving money for college can help me to have a sufficient financial support to accomplish my future college dreams. We'll go to the next slide and we have more of those testimonials on the K2C site. So to stay connected with the next slide there's a few ways you can follow us on Instagram and Facebook. We also have a page that posts a lot of that same content in Spanish. So you can follow us at K2CSF our website again is K2CSF.org and that's the same for our social media handles except the Spanish version is K2C Latino. And with our next slide you can see some of our tutorial videos. We have these in multiple languages, English and Spanish. We have one in Cantonese that overviews what K2C is, how to register and view your balance online, how to log into your account, all of those things we can help walk you through. And we also have a news that are in multiple languages that you can sign up for where we promote and advertise workshops and some of those contests that I mentioned with our last slide or two. Finally, I mentioned our website but just to plug it again K2CSF.org and our general email. If you have an inquiry where you wanna really talk to someone on the phone you can call 311 in San Francisco by selecting the Treasures Office and Tax Collector you'll be able to get routed and ask your question about K2C. I saw some questions for instance in the chat that we'll address more directly about like does my student have an account or that kind of question you can go to our site and we actually have a lookup feature where you can type in your student's name and zip code and date of birth. You'll be able to get their account number. If that doesn't work you could call us at 311 in San Francisco or that 415 number and provide your student's info and we'll make sure to follow up with you and give you a ring and walk you through any additional questions that you have. So wanna thank you again wanted to allow for at least 15 minutes or so of questions and maybe we could just start from the top and so I'll maybe go with the first one I had seen just refreshing my memory and so the question from Jenny is in the future when the child applies for college will this be an account considered as part of their assets? Will it affect how much you get from FAFSA? And so I can answer that question somewhat from the perspective of K2C. I think Cal Kids is a brand new initiative that you'll want to get some more guidance perhaps from them directly on or from a certified financial planner. My answer is a bit admittedly of a non-answer in that the FAFSA application will change every year and have different guidance or rules about what you want to disclose or not. Generally, this is again, not formal advice from a financial planner. I'm not a financial planner or tax attorney or expert on financial aid is that since this account the kindergarten to college account is technically owned by the city and county of San Francisco there's likely not a need to disclose the balance that's there when you apply but if you receive the funds after say, start of that school year and when you reapply there might be a need to disclose whatever money scholarships are otherwise that you've received. The funds in that account are not, wouldn't be seen as income I'm pretty sure because the monies that's been put in presumably has already been taxed and the incentives that we offer are kind of scholarship. So I think the best thing is when you get to that point to really evaluate what is the best advice based on how they ask the question for FAFSA for a college's financial aid application and see how to answer it truthfully and in the best way. Generally though, as we know a lot of financial aid ultimately can be loans. And so I think there is a benefit to saving early both for that college going mindset that we talked about but having some money that can provide a lot more flexibility than just loans themselves. I see another question that came in about really financial planning question about having maybe decided to move away from saving in a 529 and put that money into Roth. I don't know if we have any financial planners that can jump into that question but I think we have some resources at least that like connect you to someone to help think about that strategy over time in terms of the growth that could happen or tax implications. Personally, I'm aware of the benefits of kind of saving in a Roth for a variety of purposes to have flexibility in taking money out later. I wouldn't be able to say if it's absolutely better. I think with all of these things trade-offs and the question I always pose from a financial coaching point of view is what's best for you? What's gonna be best considering the tax implications and trying to research that as best as you can? What are the benefits of that growth over time? So admittedly, K2C is not an investment vehicle just to speak more definitively compared to a 529 but you can have that practice of having a student go in and contribute their own money, save up a little bit. At some point you might want the benefits of a 529 where you can select an investment choice that says my student's gonna graduate in 2025 and that helps you manage risk over time and adjust the portfolio so that as they near graduation it's in more conservative investments that mean that it's less likely to just take a dip but for some people they may wanna just put money in an account where there's no risk of that money being lost or they want more flexibility so it's not just college savings, which a 529 is for. So I think you're sharing some really interesting strategies, J that all of us could consider. And then for Eric- Would you like me to just weigh in on that? Well, I'm not gonna say much more than what you did but from a financial planning standpoint, it does depend. It depends on your particular situation but a good rule of thumb when you're thinking about investments and in a Roth IRA, you would be thinking about investing that money because it's if you use it for retirement that's usually a longer term goal. So a good rule of thumb that I use just to remind my clients is if your time horizon is greater than 10 years away yes, potentially you can be in investing in the stock in the bond market. So you can do that by saving in a 529 getting into the passive glide path for your child or your student, that's fine. Or you could save in a Roth IRA and then potentially withdraw those funds tax-free in the future. And when I say funds, it would be your contributions. So the Roth IRA is gonna be a little bit more complicated because of course there are certain triggers that you need to be aware of not withdrawing earnings depending on whose Roth it is. There's just a lot more complications there. So if you wanna keep it simple, having the kindergarten to college or the Cal kids is really awesome but you're not gonna get a lot of growth necessarily in that money but you won't see downturns either. So yes, it does depend on your individual situation and you wanna be prudent about where you put money at a risk. Back to you Mohan. Thank you for that expertise. And I see just a couple of K to C maybe related questions that I wanna address before we can get to the final few minutes with student loans. So one question was again, not silly is this program available to students outside of San Francisco or in another county? So K to C is really specific to students that are enrolled in San Francisco Unified School District. And if you happen to move or leave to school district there's ways that we can move that balance over to a 529 at Scholar Share. If you live in another county like Alameda County they actually have some similar college savings initiatives both something that's at birth and something for school-aged children. And as we mentioned as well, Cal kids is a statewide initiative that's super exciting both for newborns and school-aged children. So I'm gonna drop in a couple of links to those and you're welcome to message me directly if you know where you live and I can try to think of what I know offhand if there's a related local college savings initiative. And then the other question I saw is like well my students might be homeschooled or they part of this. There are some homeschool students particularly if they have a disability there's a certain program I'm forgetting the name of where they might be technically affiliated with the district. So again, I would recommend going to our site and using that lookup feature with the student's information if they don't pop up with an account number you could still call 311. We'll go to Nicole to just maybe answer the couple of questions that may have come in about student debt. Sure, so I'm seeing a question from Teresa who is just gonna be starting her work soon in public service with the VA. Teresa that's fantastic. Congratulations on your new role. Public service loan forgiveness is definitely something that you should look into if you continue your service either in that government role with nonprofit or in public education for the next 10 years. You asked a question about why this temporary waiver period has been more permissive. The way in which it's been more permissive is really for folks who have already been working in public service and have basically have their years of service but have found at the end of that trajectory that they were unable for one reason or another to take advantage of the program. So to speak in a little bit more depth about it, there's actually four criteria for taking advantage of PSLF. You of course must have 10 years of employment in public service and have made 120 qualifying payments it toward your student loan debt during that time. So during those 10 years, but in addition to that you need to have a specific loan type of direct loans and you need to be in a specific type of repayment plan an income driven repayment plan. And so many folks didn't have the full details on all of this eligibility criteria, worked very hard for 10 years of service and then found at the end of those 10 years to their huge disappointment that either they had a different type of loan, not direct loans or they were in an incorrect repayment plan and had the heartbreaking experience of being rejected after so many years of service. And so essentially the temporary waiver period was an initiative undertaken by the Biden administration to fix and true up those past issues by for a one year period, this temporary waiver period it allowed folks who otherwise had the years of service to be able to retroactively go back, consolidate their loans into direct loans and it removed the requirement for being in an income driven repayment plan. And so allowed folks that otherwise would have qualified but weren't able to check every box to be able during this temporary period to apply and be able to receive a credit for their years of service. So as I mentioned in the presentation we're coming to the end of that temporary period on the 31st. So in just a couple of days from now but since you're just on the beginning of your public service journey, Teresa I think you'll be in really good shape definitely take a look at our website so you can understand more about those specific criteria but I think you're in great shape for having all of the criteria in place at the start of your public service employment to be able to take advantage of the program after your 10 years of service. Let me see. I see a question from YAH around tax taxation at the California so the state level for debt forgiveness. And so to my knowledge at the state level the one time debt forgiveness that the Biden administration is currently has is currently taxable in the state of California at the federal level it is not taxable. PSLF I don't believe is taxable at the state level but the one time forgiveness that the Biden administration has currently up to $20,000 is currently taxable. That said it's well on the radar of our California legislators and we're hoping that they will make a fix so that it is not considered taxable but as of current law as of today it is taxable. So unfortunately, but thank you for raising that and thank you for the question YAH. I see maybe one last question or two that relates to just like should I save if my students a junior and I see some good like even discussion in the chat and I would just say yes with K2C or otherwise every little bit counts even a hundred bucks you can get to really quickly by putting in $20 of your own money viewing a balance online but also with something like a 529 because let's say your students gonna go be a freshman next year or in a couple of years they could still use the money in a 529 for graduate school. You can also switch through the beneficiary is if say one student decides they don't wanna go to school or higher education you can designate somebody else. So don't let that be a reason I think we all we can all have reasons why we may not think that it's worth it and there's conservative options as well that you can choose as those investment choices particularly with the 529. Great, well thank you Mohan and I just once again our last seconds together wanna give a big thank you to everyone who's joined us and for your fantastic questions and engaging conversation in the chat. We encourage you to take a look at OFB's website and K2C's website as an ongoing resource for you and feel free to reach out to us if there's anything we can do to answer your questions or if you'd like to see more focus in a specific area where we can help. And so with that we'll bid you guys a due to the 345 session. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks so much, Nicole and Mohan. Excellent.