 We are back. We got new managers getting hired. We got a manager search still going on free agents opt-outs opt-ins Let's do it What's going on everybody welcome back to talking baseball the first official kind of off-season Episode and we're gonna find our own gears here Obviously this show has not had an off-season Episodes as we go, but we are excited to figure out what it is how it works and all that my name's John Boy I'm coming to you from New Jersey. I got my co-host Jake coming from Denver Rockin a Knicks hat, but this is a baseball podcast not a basketball podcast. This is just the number nine Oh, just isn't a Knicks hat. It's just number nine and I want to correct you on another thing again This isn't this is your talking baseball first off-season podcast I was doing talking baseball 94 95 Just talking to my wall and my dog. So I'm pretty well traveled in this. So don't you know, this is technically year I mean like year 15 or so You're 15 of talking baseball off-season, right usually it hasn't been recorded or shown That's that's my bad and a mistake. I shall not make again, and it's alright. Okay Patreon new Patreons this week sponsoring this episode are Christina Thelon That's a tough one Talon Felon You know I have no I have no no gauge on that one. What do you got? I like Thelon. It feels like a Thelon Jonathan Larson Noah Hughes or hug he's Jacob Stolzenbach a strong name Stolzenbach. Wow. You better be a stocky dude Michelle wood Daniel Russell and Rob White That's I had Stolzenbach is like a long picture like six seven That works to you just you just can't be average body Okay, just don't be average Jacob Stolzenbach. Yeah, that's the name that commands a presence Those are our most recent patreon supporters and subscribers two dollars a month You can hang out listen live and some jerseys. I've got to do the October raffle actually cool. All right Anyway, Jake, it's been a little bit. I think the longest break we've had on the show in a while because we're doing daily episodes How are how are you doing? I'm great man. I'm I'm excited. I mean, it's it again This is part of a bigger philosophical baseball free agency problem that you and I ran into last winter meetings that I mean free Agency technically kicks off what midnight tonight. Yeah But nothing will happen in the NBA world that leads to like 48 hours of pure chaos and it's awesome In MLB, it's like all right like honestly the chaos is gonna be in the next couple hours With a couple opt-ins opt-outs to be decided a couple, you know for the Yankees I know we're kind of assuming that they're gonna reach a contract with Brett Gardner before free agency starts and other teams Have situations like that Cole Calhoun. We like putting those two in a bucket. Anyways, but it is exciting it it it You know, it feels like the World Series just happened the Nats just had their parade, but now it's like all right 2020 free agency. It's a little bit of a bummer. It's not gonna be like I'm not gonna know Garrett Cole's team in the next 24 hours, which in the NBA I would but I'm excited and it's I Do like as I joked about I've always been a huge baseball fan And you know, I I like this side of baseball a little bit more of the the free agency that coming together The teams or are you gonna trust your minor league third baseman? Are you gonna go out and bring in a Todd Frazier? So I love that stuff and there's there's a couple fun teams that I'm already locked into so I'm good man I'm good. How are you nice? I'm doing well. I'm in the midst of a move Yeah, the lease a couple days ago today is Monday. I think Tuesday Wednesday are two full move days And then I'll be in New York City. Oh, wow. Okay, like it's it's happening quick Yeah, my credit card is Getting really tested. We got a furnish a whole apartment two bedrooms We haven't bought a couch yet because all the couches at Ikea can go Kill themselves. Yeah, the Ikea couch selection was rather putrid If if someone out there is a part of a furniture company, they need a better middle tier of couches It's either like shit or like expensive $5,000 couch. It's like give me a good. Well, there's also there's also a big divide between looks nice and Kitchy and new and modern in the living room Versus comfortability very hard to get both. It's either like a basement couch or a living room couch And I want a living room couch look with a basement couch sit And it's like do you want the comfortability of someone like Edwin and Karnassie own as your DH? Or would you rather try out the young guy and your your farm? I think that's what you're trying to say you I was hoping you were gonna make a great Comparison, but no you started bad and then quit. Yeah Okay, so as we've been doing do you have a burn for us? Oh I Could what do you need burnt? No burn Starling Marta he's opting in No Yeah, alright, so there's we're gonna start actually with the managers and that whole situation Because a lot of this happened while we were covering the world series and we just kind of skipped it And so we'll get to this later on There were how many openings take one two three four five six seven eight openings for manager Six of them have been filled two are still searching and Let's just go down the list. Is that cool with you? That's cool with me, Jim Brad osmos gets fired from the angels and they bring in Joe Madden I like this. I treat as soon as Joe Madden left the Cubs. I tweeted the angels should go get him right away I Trout needs a chance Like Trout needs to be in a playoff race I'm not saying this gets them in the playoffs not in that division, but hopefully Madden can help them get into the race He is a good manager. He grinds my gears I think he's the most exhausting man in baseball and I think he exhausts places that he goes and Then starts fresh but I do think Madden going into a new team if they can put some talent and He he has now managed the rays who had not a lot of talent but he got them to a world series and he did the most shifting and the most Weird line-ups and all this crazy shit to get the most out of his players when he was with the rays And then when he got traded to the Cubs and he had all this talent He shifted the least amount in all of baseball and they asked him and he said well, I have good players now I don't need to do that stuff. So he's kind of equipped to manage two kinds of teams I think he's a good manager still personally. I think he's exhausting But I like this move for the angels Yeah, and so we we were Connecting the dots on this a little bit because it seemed a little bit a plus B trout Madden LA Madden's time running out in Chicago He was with if you don't know he was with the angels organization for 31 years before he went to the rays He was with the California slash Anaheim slash Los Angeles angels 1975 to 2005 so I'll tell you what I'm gonna be honest. I didn't know that So there's there's a comfort level there Just in the organization. He was Mike Socia's bench coach During during some of their high times during the world series in 2002 So yeah when when all the connected dots came out on this and made a lot of sense And yeah, and you'd like to think that they're gonna be spending in free agency a little bit Obviously the West Coast co-rumors will get into that But yeah, I if you're a baseball fan, you should be rooting for Mike trout to get to October somehow and It's he's a good manager. There's no argument against that Yeah, you can't really you can dislike him cuz I kind of don't like Joe Madden Yeah, but I can't say he's not a good manager. You're a hard no magicians in the clubhouse guy So are you if we're being fair? Well, if I I'm allowing my players to beat up the magician It's like kind of it's letting out steam. Don't bring a magician into the clubhouse It's your number one rule. Hey magicians. I Like the dress-up parties that Madden does don't bring penguins into my clubhouse. Oh See, that's where you and I are gonna. Yeah, you're a hard line in the same You've made out with a penguin and I might have a team penguin in there So the cubs got rid of Joe Madden. They parted ways and they bring in David Ross this is a complete change in In Manager it feels like David Ross has never managed before very much an Aaron Boone situation almost the same exact thing a player's player Everyone love everyone loves him goes into broadcasting people love him Goes and manages he's never been a coach in the dugout. He's never been anything now He has a catcher which is a little more game management ship than third baseman one in the comparison to Boone. I Think he'll do a good job. I think the managing position changes now and David Ross is one of these guys. That's gonna be more like an Aaron Boone. Keep the clubhouse loose Keep the guys motivated Relay why decisions are being made the way they are by the analytics department above so I think that there will be a year of growing pains here, but I don't but I I like the kind of balls in this of it Yeah, and it's you know He he was part of that cubs team he played with a lot of these guys So that's I mean you could put that in the good bucket You could put that in the bad bucket too because if things if things get off to a rocky start You know, you're gonna hear all these rumors like I don't know It's it's just that that mental mind fuck of I will if if you're peers with someone and then they're technically above you That's a mind fuck. I will say this. I don't think David Ross I think he was always a authority figure because that team was so young that cubs team It's not like he's gonna be managing guys that he literally was eye-level teammates with Like Joe Girardi when he came to the Yankees with Posada and Jeter and Williams and stuff or Bernie wasn't there anymore, but they were kind of you know They didn't think of Joe Girardi as like a father figure Grizzled vet listened to what he says as much as this seems to be on the surface Well, it's Sports you often can't relate things to the to the real-life business world But you know there is like If you're someone's boss, you're not supposed to get crazy drunk and go out partying with them and like I don't know like yes Rossi was an authoritative figure in their clubhouse But when they were in the world series like that's someone you poor champ pain down his throat Yeah, that's that's someone you just look at differently a little bit that being said and we are Yankee fans That's a hot take you leave one of those hot take five-star reviews that says hey these guys are Yankee fans Those are our favorites It the Aaron Boone thing has worked out really well for the Yankees and it's it's not like completely out of left field I mean he was a catcher like you said he's so well like throughout but he's like one of the more well-liked baseball players Currently now just from being on like dancing with the stars and shit like that. So It's it's a popular hire and Again, I think the interesting thing because didn't you have one quote that was like he's he's in for analytics But he still definitely believes in being a baseball guy and stuff like that. I don't know I like that quote though because that's what it is Yeah, put that on a shirt So, yeah, I don't know it's it's gonna be and this was and maybe this is the advice We could give to cubs fans is that you know a lot of the shots nowadays and this will probably be different than Joe Madden to a degree a lot of the shots come from the GM and the analytics team So there's only so much decision-making that truly happens that a manager sometimes is a scapegoat or Aaron Boone looks like a genius this year because half the roster gets hurt and a lot of those guys thrive. Yep All right. Well, we talked about Joe Girardi. He's going to Philadelphia replacing Gabe Kapler who was never a fit and kind of just Didn't gave Kapler's first game. He made like an illegal substitution in the bullpen that couldn't happen or something he brought I think it was like the first two weeks. He made a couple of ones and it was like, oh boy Yeah, and then it never panned out like you wrote he was in over his head from the jump. Anyway, Joe Girardi gets the filly's job What's his deal? Three I don't they don't have it here. He has a three-year deal. I don't know Joe Girardi is gonna bring a determined Ness, what's the word there determinism to this Philadelphia team? And I think he'll fit the city a little better than Gabe a little more Joe Girardi's kind of corny and I saw him speak once like live and he's very like, you know, he can I don't have corny's right word, but he can be a little too Not pretty but he's very gritty like in his managerial play Right, like I don't think he's gonna be like chopping it up and fucking around with the guys But like he will make sure they're every game matters. I Think this is the interesting part with Joe Girardi It's it's will he change a little bit because at the end of his Yankees run It was kind of this revolution of managers and you know You kind of got to be the the Joe Madden loose guy or the young guy because baseball's such a long season that if you're someone like Joe Girardi who was pretty rigid with the dudes it kind of the word we heard was that it kind of wore thin amongst some of the young guys So and when he went to the MLB network, we saw more of Joe Girardi being his personality Like he has a good personality, but when he puts on the manager cap, he gets a little more militaristic So it's gonna be interesting to see if he just goes straight back to that because that has been what's worked for him As a manager or if he is a little looser around the edges because I think the guys would love that They've had some clubhouse like I don't know if they've actually had clubhouse issues But there was the whole Santana and area to fight Areata through Harper under the bus area throws everyone under the bus It might be area. It might be area is the problem who just opted into his contract. So he's still there so we'll see all that gets handled because I Don't know. I just don't see Joe letting things Get crazy in the dugout clubhouse Yeah, and it their problem was over fortnight like they were playing too many video games. I can't see Joe Girardi like Joe Girardi was so tight for a while that there was a big story that he took the team on a bowling trip And that was him like loosening up. Yeah, if that's the loosening up How's the fortnight in the clubhouse gonna work? So you think Girardi's not playing fortnight? Okay, man Yeah, and I I think we we have to say this because it's well they are clearly different levels of players at this point But we mentioned Mike Trout instantly when we hear Joe Madden It's gonna be Bryce Harper. Can he get the best out of Bryce Harper? I think I think what you and I think is that those personalities are gonna actually line up pretty well Like they're both kind of intense locked in dudes. So that relationship seems to make sense there So, I mean that's good and that's a guy that this team just invested so much money in And yeah, just circling back on Jake Arietta No, it's funny yet People like you more when you pitch better. So don't have a four six four ERA next year And maybe some of your clubhouse stuff. I wish we were doing a talking bait I wish we were doing a talking baseball back when Arietta was a free agent Because I remember just shouting from the rooftops like there's no way he's gonna be good They get nothing nothing in his Abilities said he was gonna sustain that success for another five years Yeah, God couple couple big years for the cubbies I young winner. I know but and it was great. He was fantastic, but it was like this ain't gonna last Yeah, he was He was one of those Pitchers that he was clearly starting to decline a little bit But you still paid money for pitchers and now Dallas Kike was like what the fuck man Yeah, wow, that's a great comparison. I wonder look at their age and stats and all that Yeah, damn. All right Jace Tingler Replaces dude, I'll let you roll with Jace Tingler because he's kind of you've been on him For five ten years. It's the most unique hire This dude has never been a manager or coach in a dugout He had some weird half-assed title. He was in the Rangers dugout for a little bit He managed in winter ball and stuff like that, but he really has no coaching experience in the MOB level but Apparently he speaks two languages, which is actually I think very important these days he because especially the Padres they have a lot of Latin young players and Everyone loves him and it seems like this was their guy like they didn't do a round of interviews. They're like no We want Jace Tingler it's a bold hire and I Reward them for their boldness Yeah, and with with the boldness it could he could end really sour really quick too, but And I think the the BS position I forget the title of it But I think the if you're looking for a parallel from recent years I believe Rocco Baldele before he got hired in Minnesota. He was in that same position. It was what's the title? It's something Player organizer or something. I don't know It's a it's a very new age MLB position, but I think it normally goes to the well-liked guy That kind of knows analytics. It's kind of the guy that has been behind the scenes Calling a lot of the shots and now they're going to the forefront. So yeah, knock knock them dead Jace Tingler knock them dead I mean, I'm rooting for him. It can easily be a situation where he fails But if if he does find success Then we're have a we or might have a big shift in how managers get hired because you have David Ross Aaron Boone That's the old school like their new school managers, but like hey hire baseball guys. They've been around baseball They know baseball now. You got Schmidt or am I saying that wrong? Cardinals manager oh Snip his name no snicker. No, that's that's waves. I Am having a brain. I always think of dry chute now shilt shilt Shilts he never played in the majors I don't even think he played in the minors and he never managed in the majors at all He never sat in an MLB dugout before getting hired He went through like college pitching coach college assistant up the ranks up the ranks of college and then to MLB And he he put the Cardinals on a pretty nice run there to end the season So if he works out if Tingler works out this whole thing might get a little revamped Yeah, it's kind of the last last time I'll reference business stuff because I was pretty bad in that world But it's it's like it's just having a good leader like It doesn't matter if Mike Schilt used to be that good by at baseball Can he get the 25 dudes on the Cardinals to play their best baseball because that's what we're trying to do So Tingler's lot previous like names of his positions were field coordinator and player development coordinator You hate those titles. I just what are they? Yeah, do other teams have these titles or did you just say hey, we want you around What would you say you do here, Jayce? Jayce Tingler good for him good for I hope it works for the Padres because they're about to hit their window And if he's the guy it's kind of crazy, but that's cool Well, it's so crazy and we'll talk about this a little bit in our next segment But you know how how much of Jayce Tingler is gonna be decided like oh, hey the Padres Opened up the bankroll. They signed Garrett Cole I bet Jayce Tingler would look a little better as a manager if he had Garrett Cole for 33 starts instead of Whoever's gonna be on the end of that rotation Quantral your guy I'm gonna go to the Mets. They just announced Carlos Beltran Carlos Beltran if you're surprised that he's a manager There's been a lot of people that have been paying attention aren't surprised he He is highly respected in the MLB when the Red Sox played the Yankees This season Alex Cora and the Yankees beat the Red Sox in a couple series Alex Cora said you can tell Carlos Beltran's On their side now like that's like he's like the kind of the fucking baseball whisperer that travels around He spent time with the Astros and Their club when they won the World Series He spent time in the Yankees front office when they just went on this run and the craziness of this player development and new players So he's gaining this knowledge. He he Interviewed for the MLB for the Yankees position back in 2017 But he had no idea what an interview to be a manager even was he just kind of got called in But then he got like experienced that so he gets this Mets job. He was a met great for a little bit there This one I like this one for the Mets Beltran Seem set up for success. We'll see I think he's bringing Collins Terry Collins to be his bench coach So we can have that dude who knows the day-to-day of like, hey, this is you better schedule out You're that's the thing that like I think gets overlooked is planning ahead like Terry Collins and say like this is good But you got to think about this series in June like we got to get to that or like we got to get to there Or who's your shortstop after you know and just how much you have to think about how far to expand how close I don't know. I've never managed. These are things that a manager can help with so I actually like that Is that official that Collins is his bench coach? I'm not sure. I I can I can I saw that real quick. I saw that out There and I thought that was a smart, but I like that for the Mets good for them Yeah, and we've seen that with a lot of these these new managers You know is to have a guy who's done it before Larry Rothschild was there with Boonee I wouldn't be surprised if David Ross has has someone like that around the team Yeah, I think I think Beltran's my favorite signing And again normally in a society where as you mentioned I am a Knicks fan It's easy to do lol Knicks. It's easy to do lol Mets They get Beltran and I how many times did you hear me say during this regular season Jim that if you're hiring? Why don't you hire someone from Houston's pitching department? You hire someone from the Yankees hitting department put it together and you're gonna have a good team That's kind of what Beltran's been doing And and I don't know I I don't want to underplay all the managerial stuff because I I do believe in top top-down run organizations But Carlos Beltran is so well respected by the players He's so well respected throughout baseball and I mean even if you know if Carlos Beltran can Unlock one or two guys on the Mets. I Mean that could take them to another level. So I love the hire Yeah, and then the last hire of the six that have been finalized is Mike Matheny going to the Royals and I break down all these hires Jake as Okay, you got an established dude and Joe Madden and Joe Girardi or Okay, you have a new rookie manager, but they're your guy the Cubs seem to like David Ross from the jump the Padres I don't even know if they looked at anyone else Jase Tingler was their guy The Mets looked at a lot of hires, but Carlos Beltran has Been rumored to become a manager and be you know primed for that for a while So you either have okay the young guy coming in for his first time But you have faith in him or an established great manager the The Royals go with Mike Matheny who is as safe and vanilla and boring as a choice You can get and I think the Royals are still a couple years away And this might just be a placeholder. They can't think he's the dude Yeah, a couple different things going here and one one thing that I'll I'll set you up is basically like like you were saying you Like the Jase Tingler hire because it's bold and maybe there's a chance it works out. Matheny is basically the opposite. Yeah So that that's kind of the scope you're looking for it's It's not exciting. You're right like it We we would love if the Royals came in they hired some hot shot and they're like hey We're gonna do this whole thing differently. It's gonna take a couple years, but buckle up We'd be like all right Royals. We'll see you there. Hopefully this is cool They brought Matheny in as a special advisor last year so the organization does like him and You know, they they did know that well, they knew this could be Yoast's last year So I don't know they do like Mike Matheny. It does seem a little vanilla, but he's familiar He he already has a year familiarity with the organization Year familiarity with some of the players. So yeah, it's not exciting, but I don't know It's it's what do the Royals have coming up the farm I mean, do they believe that they they like the way their whole organization is set up for the next couple years that if They can get better the next two years Mike Matheny's in a in a good place to give him a chance I don't know but yeah, not not the sexiest of hires his numbers from st. Louis look pretty okay But the the end of that run was pretty pretty mad Yeah, I think he was Disliked by fans. I think they were like get him out of here. Yeah Yeah So Jake the other two teams left that need managers are the San Francisco Giants and the Pittsburgh Pirates There is still Buck show Walter who wants to manage hmm, I Think he fits with Pittsburgh pretty well just kind of attitude Yeah, but I don't know who wants that Pittsburgh job like if we'll buck show Walter Take one of these jobs. Will he be wanted for one of these jobs or we wait out another year? It's tough. I mean maybe Pittsburgh if they gave him the right insurance like if they were like, hey buck Here's the deal We're gonna give you five years and we've seen what you've done and at in Baltimore and some of your other stops like You know, well, we we are open to the full buck show Walter experience and yeah, maybe that's what buck wants I don't know Maybe he doesn't Maybe bucks saying fuck that give me a solid team. Yeah So, yeah, it kind of depends where bucks had added and yet It seems like San Fran's not fully a fit for for buck show Walter in my head Like I want the geekiest dude ever because I think their their GM they hired is a geek So like just go with that. You see what the Giants are doing. They like gave capitalers in consideration Yeah Why? That's that's the guy you fire before the next guy Well, that's like we're gonna have a bad year and a half. So we need to hear the other news Bruce Bochie isn't retired Love that. He's taking a one-year sabbatical. He wants to manage again in 2021 It's genius. Everyone thought he was retired and he went on mad dog radio and was like, no, no, no, no This is a sabbatical. I want to get back out there. See how I feel retired from the Giants I don't like where that's headed Well, maybe the Giants do a one-year manager change up and bring him back Bring back Bochie. That would be that would be awesome I I now have to root for that unfortunately, but I think part of it was to they brought in like They did the whole analytics full revamp, but they were gonna give Bochie one last year to be Bruce Bochie So I think that dream might be fading away a little bit, but I still like it. Yeah Crazy, I don't I don't even know if there's any leads for these these Pittsburgh or whatever Twins bench coach Derek Shelton has interviewed for the job for the Pirates Pirates job kind of sucks man Yeah, that's a beautiful view in a nice ballpark. I don't know why you'd go there Hey, man, those are two of my favorite things. I'm in. All right higher Jake. You got anything else on managers I mean, obviously we'll update where there's a lot to go through right there since we missed it all In the end like I'm not here. I'm not here to hate on another team's choice until we don't know We don't know how any of these guys will go the only one that I'm gonna give shit to is Mike Matheny seems like such a boring choice in a season in a change it's changing tides of either you know New exciting guy or proven good manager Madden Gerardi show Walter proven good managers Yeah, I don't know that the only counter I'd have is that for some of these organizations like like the Royals who they're not gonna have World Series aspirations next year is sometimes you just need Good organization and a guy who's done it before and a guy who's gonna do the right thing So like like you said like you thought there might be some growing pains with some of David Ross's stuff this year Mike Matheny shouldn't have that. That's true. That's good. He should be stable He should be able to run through the motions and then it's you know, can you Can you get something else out of these out of these guys? All right, we're gonna take a quick break then we're gonna come back and talk about the pitchers that are topping the free agent list All right Free agent season is Coming and as this rolls and This will probably be the only episode where we kind of deep dive into the top free agents and our thoughts and then hopefully It's more reactions to where they sign and news and that's how the episodes will go forward But if you're doing a baseball episode you got to do this conversation Jake With Strasburg opting out which is fucking nuts that he has a hundred million dollars guaranteed 100 million dollars guaranteed for four years and he gets like 35 a year at the end of it guaranteed and He says Nah, I'm gonna go get myself more and it's the smartest move Because he will easily get himself more money and more years It's just wild to really think about it Yeah, we we don't get thrown in those positions a lot But yeah, it's a and I was blown away because the last year of that contract when Strasburg was 34 years old He was due to make 45 million that year So in my head I had mentally turned off the Strasburg switch and I was like oh you don't turn down that ever ever And then he goes out. He has an incredible season. I think he pitches the most innings. He obviously does his World series and playoff heroics He's like the perfect candidate the former number one pick. It's not not fluky or anything So yeah, I mean he's he's probably gonna get the same AAV ooh, it's been a while since we've talked about Annual value of contracts, but yeah, he's gonna get two or three more years He's gonna get six or seven at the value that he was gonna get for four and at this age You have to go and do that. I think this is going to be Garrett Cole and Strasburg will be the Machado Harper where are they represent? Are they both Boris clients? I Believe so I could double-check pretty cuz that kind of actually changes things Because then it's Boris bidding against Boris Last year is Harper Machado is Boris versus I forget who Machado's agent was but they are both Boris So they're both Boris. So okay, that's gonna be fucking weird for Boris Because one of these dudes is gonna set the market the others gonna get just under it And it might take forever for this to wind out. I mean Garrett Cole. This is his first time becoming a free agent Same with Strasburg They're gonna go listen to every pitch from every team that wants to pitch them Go get yourself the free flights and the free meals and the dinners in a bunch of cities and get told how great you are And how much they want you and how much they love you go do it go take the tour Like I'm not gonna blame anyone for not doing that sounds like a bunch of fun Go get you know priced out and pimped around and have some fun It's gonna they should both do that and then they're gonna it's Boris versus Boris. It's kind of weird Boris versus Boris We bought we got both of them like what seven years. I mean they will have to beat the Corbin contract That's how it works. Oh Yeah, and I mean they're gonna wreck the Corbin contract. They're gonna wreck David Price's Most most money gotten by a pitcher, I think it's two twenty one million or something like that or two two eleven But yeah, I think both of these guys are gonna be north of that they're They're in semi in their primes and they just did special things both of them Garrett Cole's last two seasons are about as good as they can get and Steven Strasburg Just won the World Series MVP with some of the best playoff stats You'll see and there's like Steven Strasburg has a little bit of the story like we saw him He's like, yeah, it's too tight than these We hired these crazy Anibal Sanchez and Gerardo Paris started hugging me and I was more relaxed and it's like okay So you have to sign them with Strasburg. That's the catch. Yes, baby shark comes Is this two years in a row? Is this two years in a row now that the World Series MVP becomes a free agent after the World Series? Steve Pierce last year Pierce yeah, try to go back before that I Guess it was springer before that right and He didn't yeah for Houston. So so two years in a row and I think Strasburg will get more than Pierce Don't talk out of your butt hot takes early hot takes Jake I like this starting pitching spread for this year. Okay. I Think you've got top dogs, right? You've got Garrett Cole and Strasburg and those are the two Then I think you've got solid Upper echelon, but not Garrett Cole Strasburg Like you've got then maybe two starters, but like okay a solid three you could be happy about I Mean you got bum Garner and Ryu and Wheeler Those three You'd be happy with them, you know like the upside is there the middling middle road is also there But Wheeler has so much upside give that dude some pine tar, please Yeah, and enjoy Houston Zack I've I've been been been dreading that been dreading that been dreading that tweet for about six months now But I mean all we learn is a perfect fit for Houston if Zach Wheeler goes to Houston. He will replicate Garrett Cole. Yeah With Brett Strom pitching coach over there and their their analytics department and whatever like yes He's got the same peripherals that Cole had before Going to Houston. They're like pretty similar so it's it's so funny and obviously we're anticipating a lot here, but I mean, it's this whole circle that's going around in baseball and we've seen it with Yankee fans where it's like Oh, the Yankees they they regret not trading for Garrett Cole a few years ago It's like well the Yankees probably wouldn't have made Garrett Cole as good as he has become now because Houston has a special sauce with their Pitching right now. So using that formula Zach. We learn Houston. It's a Hads up it adds up Ryu. I think he's got to stay in the NL same with bum You and I are very much albias guys There's a little albias. We're not too shy about that. I don't know about Ryu. I Mean I he had an incredible year. Someone's got to get excited about Ryu. I have heard some cubs rumors I Don't know. I mean who was um, who's our guy a little while that came over From the Dodgers and was hated baseball, but was the Yankees ace for a couple years. Corota Corota Yeah, I don't know. I think what Ryu did last year that plays anywhere Yeah All right, then then you have Where is it where that where the hell is it you got Dallas Kajko? I don't know if he's gonna have to wait as long this time Someone might be like, oh, so he he doesn't have the the draft pick attached to him So that's that's a story with a couple of guys this year grand al when we get to the hitters But yeah, Kajko has no pick attached to him so he can kind of get settled in with the team if he wants Oh to Rizzy. I mean he's gonna get picked up by someone as you know a 3-4 maybe potentially a 2 But and probably a more of a 3-4 pitcher on that rotation if it's a team trying to Win now. I don't know what yeah, he will look like but oh derizy will probably get some money He had a good year and I think his slide are graded out pretty top notch So that it seems like some team will definitely fall in love with that call Hamels He's an older guy that probably just wants to get signed. He might take a two-year contract Somewhere he had a pretty good last two seasons with the Cubs So he's up there Tehran Pineda Gibson Purcello those are the kind of guys that you you have to give a chunk of money to But you know to eat innings and be a pro pitcher that they'll get picked up There's some interesting guys on here Jake like Geo Gonzalez Ivan Nova Homer Bailey Brett Anderson You're these guys gonna get the Kikel treatment or that is like is Matt Harvey gonna get picked up like he's gonna get a triple A He'll be invited to camp. I don't think you can guarantee him any money Felix Hernandez I Think like yeah Felix Felix will get invited somewhere and there there'll be a pitching coach that'll say hey Maybe we can craft you a little bit. I but I mean his arm has been through a lot. He's he's 34 going on 44 No, I think what you were saying is that like okay this when when we go into the hitters late later There's a couple positions where it's like. Oh, well if you needed a guy there, you're kind of fucked Starting pitcher if you need a one, I mean, there's a couple of jit ones out there There's a couple borderline twos There's some threes and then kind of the end of rotation guys that you and I are are dipping our toe into right now You know Pineda Kyle Gibson Wayne writes technically a free agent. Please go back to St. Louis Tanner Rourke Wade Miley Brett Anderson These are guys that have you signed them like I don't know you can kind of pencil in 160 innings of Okay, baseball, which hey some teams actually no not some teams every team needs that Yeah, we're at Homer Bailey didn't he didn't need wasn't he doing pretty good after the trade or am I making that up? He's got he's got two starts After the trade he's got two blow-up starts. Otherwise. He was he was pretty good Yeah, he's settled in I mean he had a 43 era and like you mentioned two of those are blowouts, but yeah, he kind of locked in in Oakland Yeah, yeah, his era is not gonna look good. He's got a two innings pitch nine earned runs But if you take it game by game, he was actually pretty good post trade. So he might get One year to your dear. I've no bring him back Cincinnati No, he went to the A's I know but I'm saying Cincinnati game the giant contract. Let's run it back Sure. The first one didn't work out Good time. Do you have a sleeper here? Oh Like do you if okay, let me give you five guys Okay, and you tell me Who you would want the most and who you think's gonna get the best deal Just don't put don't put Jordan Lyles in there No, I'm gonna I'm going kind of like the the second tier bum gardener. Are you Wheeler? Kikel odor is he I think Wheeler gets the best deal out of those five guys. I think so too just because he has the arm talent and Basically what analytics and all these teams now think is that if you have that we can mold you So yeah, I think you're right. Honestly, man I if if I'm a team so basically we have to do this like without Houston because Houston's kind of an unfair advantage Because if they bring in Zach Wheeler, like yes, I think Zach Wheeler's gonna have a chance to almost contend for the side young But any other team I'm gonna assume he's gonna be Zach Wheeler So I'm gonna kind of eliminate Houston for now. I would love for a you man. He had a crazy year He had a crazy there's injury concerns with him though, right? I mean, he's older. He's he's 30. He's 32. He'll be 33 start of next season But 2018 he had a big injury that cut his season in half 2016 and pitch it all because of injury So that's two of the last four years have been shut down due to injury Yeah, and I mean he's older So the teams would be a little scared anyways, but Jim his last 44 games started over the past two seasons He's 21 and eight with a 2 2 1 er a like I'm sorry like put those put those stats next to Zach Wheeler stats and you're gonna say no contest So I don't know. I think I'm more in If your team ends up with Ryu and Zach Wheeler got more money I think you should sit there and be pretty happy with yourselves. Yeah. All right. Okay. What about this this now the second tier? like the Bumgarner Oda Rizzi. No, no even lower. Oh All right, which Okay, here's here's a random five at the bottom of this list ready. Oh Boy Drew Smiley Ivan Nova Michael Waka Homer Bailey who you want out of those four? This is tough. I think you and me secretly like Ivan Nova I Liked what I saw from Homer Bailey. I mean this is this is tough. That's such a crap shoe I I'll go on an old Jakey Laurel is I love the old fallen warrior So I'm going with Homer Bailey just because what he was doing in Oakland was like kind of dominant Drew Pomerance was a starting pitcher went to the relief for the Brewers I think he's gonna get He's gonna get someone's gonna take him as that long man or relief like guy like hey this guy Oh, yeah, Drew Drew palm is a reliever now and then you got Colin McHugh also same boat kind of like what's he gonna be picked up for and Stuff like that and why? The relief pools pretty thin The relief pools really thin and last year it was pretty good. There's like four out there that were like really nice You got will Smith will Harris Dillon, but tanzas who's coming off injury Daniel Hudson who just closed out the world series What is track record doesn't say that he should get good money at all right fine I like him, but come on. He's not gonna like Fernando Rodney technically a free agent. What um, Joe Smith Is this just all the Astros relievers? Yes Chris Martin the guy who got hurt for the Braves, but had been pitching really well Um, what reliever is gonna get the most money is it is it will Smith? There's like parents if it's pop if pomerances are getting reliever getting you sign as a reliever really There's not a lot out here. It's very thin. Yeah I don't know. I could I could see a team convincing themselves that Daniel Hudson figured something out, right No, I mean to your deal Not a lot of money. I mean look at what's that look at what zack britain and adamadovino got and and uh, David robertson no one's getting that here Yeah, that's uh Yeah, sorry for our uh If you're a team out there that bullpen is is the red flag. There's uh It's slim pickets. Yeah, my bullpen is also the easiest to fix in your in your farm system sometimes Sometimes because any starter you can be like go give us a minix right All right another quick break then we'll come back and do the uh offensive free agents All right, jake Another national is the most coveted offensive free agent strasburg ops out But rendon man, he is going to set the market. I think here as An offensive player or a field player wherever you want to talk about him He's the guy, right? He's the leader of this free agency class Easily easily and we are we are waiting to hear because the only hitter that could that could give rendon a conversation Will be jady martinez We're we're going to know in the next couple hours if he's opting interrupting out, but he's a pure dh at this point I mean rendon plays a quality third base. He has to opt out, right? Um, we'll see it's kind of an interesting situation because there was this stigma that free agents don't get paid Anymore even though last year's guys actually did get paid decently. He's only a dh. So I mean jady martinez has The nl teams are out So it's how many al teams need a dh And he has been really good. He's owed 20 million. I think he's going to opt out I think you can talk yourself into like I could see the white socks or texas rangers Um, and it would be similar to kind of what happened with the raaldus Chapman opting in place for the rays How about that the old jady martinez for kime trade? Yeah, um, so I I think he's going to and this is one of those weird things and I think it's funny that it well, we haven't brought it up to this point But it's so funny that there are family factors and things that tie into these decisions that like that I mean, there's there's a lot going on for these guys like you you have to decide where you're gonna live in stuff Uh, but yeah, I think jady martinez It seems like the city of boston kind of wants him to opt out I've I've heard some mixed things, but I think boston if jady does opt out They'll start talking themselves that they can resign mookie if he doesn't mookie's fully gone Um, but yeah, I mean rendone easily easily will set the position player market And then if jd's opts out, he's the second and then we were saying this before we started recording third base Has some good depth if you're looking for A third baseman you got Josh johnelson who went off the bringer of rain you got todd frazier who had a decent year and Is respected highly regarded also my best friend, so Right shut up about it. Um There were some others I saw that i'm blanking on remembering right now Pablo sandoval mike moustakis Uh Ask crabs he could play a little third if he needs to ask cabs is out there Um, yeah, I mean rendone's the special guy if if you sign donaldson I mean you're gonna fully be bought into that and the potential of him having a pretty special year And then yeah, like someone like moustakis. He's he's an impactful guy todd frazier astruble cabrera If those guys come into town you you feel comfortable with your third base position. It's not a question mark Um, so the third base has has some decent options out there in free agency Yeah, do you know what his uh, what just someone in the chat just asked what's jade is opt in Do you know the numbers? Uh, I want to say it's 20 it's 20 mil per year. He has another option next year Um And I I forget if that's the final two if that would be two years or three years But it it seems like jade martinez would at least be able to get the same money and an extra year or so Um, because he is 32 now Let me see if I could get his contract up. So, yeah, if he if he ops in it's 20 23 mil and then 2021 is 20 mil 2020 is 20 mil So third base, there's a good amount of options shortstop. Do you want de de gregorias? Because that's your option Yeah, hey, jose glacius. He'll tell you he hit in the 280s last year. Um, but yeah Shortstop is uh, is pretty empty and you and I have circled around the the de de gregorias conversation a couple times I just don't know a team is going to talk themselves into de de gregorias because a he's the only guy And his hitting numbers are pretty impressive all things considered. Yeah Yeah, and then I mean you got like brockholt utility But really short stops very thin Yeah, it's uh Like there's there's not even anyone that you're like, well If he does this it's like no Wilmer floras And good short stops don't hit free agency. That's why Um, I I got into it with yankees twitter a little bit because I said if de de gregorias comes back and plays Like the de de gregorias we've seen the past two years Um, he was gonna get huge paid Um, he didn't his ops was down 100 points. Uh, he had tommy john surgery So he's uh, he's a full-on wildcard this this free agency and there's some trades that can happen as well But we're just doing free agency right now You also got echeveria and floras, but you're not going to get these guys to be your everyday short stop No, if you're going free agency, it's de de and glacis, but really de de First baseman jake mitch morland ryan zimmerman matt adams jose abray you edwin incarnacion justin smoke eric thames For for me jose abray who's not being talked about enough. He's he's 33 He can't he's not great at first base anymore. I don't think he ever was but bodies started going in so you have to have to plan on him being Mostly a dh with a little bit of first base He led the al and runs batted in this year On on kind of a sad Well, no, it was a fun white socks team, but it was a white socks team that wasn't heading anywhere I don't know. He seems like a guy if he's on the right ball team and gets a little spark like He can still hit he had 33. Yeah 33 home runs 123 rbi's So one of the more solid hitters you can get What what team needs someone like that? That's um the team that I just keep in the al you have so many teams not even trying still right So you have to find a team that's trying to win in the next two years and needs a first base dh and Who who is that that can afford free agents like what does that limit it down to one or two teams? White socks red socks the team the team that keeps popping up for me. That's really interesting Um that I think they're going to make a big splash or if they don't someone like jose abray It would be a good consolation surprise. It's a texas rangers. They've got a new stadium. They had two pitchers emerge last year Um like they are going to sign someone flashy. I don't know if it's one of the top guys There's there's some links to rendone too, but if they come short on rendone like Bringing jose abray you bringing a couple of those pitchers we talked about and you can really You can make the depth of that ranger team so much better because last year it was like Okay, if we run into lance lin and mic minor We're kind of fucked like those guys are dealing. Um, if you don't see them, it's like, all right The rangers kind of suck you'd rather have jose abray or than edwin and crassione doing the same kind of thing, right? It's interesting. I I think it's a conversation. Edwin's a little older Um, and I don't know we saw edwin play the field when he needed to and it wasn't horrible. So Um, I I I think you'd be more locked into a braille for a solid season Second baseman there's a good amount of options here. You got, uh jonathan scope scooter jenet dozier who might be hung over still kipnis Um zobarist that's kind of an interesting one moustakas can technically play some second base So there's there's uh, it's not like like I don't know if you're in love with scope or scooter jenet Who you don't know what you're getting at all But I think it's I don't know. That's kind of weak pool It yeah, it feels like a classic case of If if you bring any of those guys to be your eighth or ninth hole hitter, you're like, okay, sure Like let's let's see if we could get some good stuff out of jonathan scope that if he can find the His his swing again, but yeah, those guys don't get you too excited Someone who's kind of first base second base who we haven't mentioned yet, jim who he might get a little bit paid Howie kendrick Yeah, if you're looking for contact I mean dude hit fifth for the world series champions Yeah crazy Starlin castra is a free agent. They didn't pick up his option Talk about how easy it is to fall off the baseball map. Yeah Well, you go to miami you go to miami and you're done Goodbye I mean, I don't even know starlin castra stats Was he doing anything in mar? How do you get motivated to fucking play in miami right now? I don't know Two full seasons duty played 162 games last year Oh Awesome, but come on Pretty average numbers like at pedestrian numbers not great Only 22 home runs Which is his career high By one Yeah, so set his career high in rbi's 86 starlin went out there and swung it last year, babe Damn All right. The other infield position is catcher. There's a good amount here. Um, if you want a back up 162 Oh my god, you see the only player to play 162 I don't know Hold on 2019 Games played mlb leaders I mean, it used to be a lot of guys jeter cano would do it all the time Games played now. Okay. So simian also played 162 Soler played 162 valar on baltimore fuck And maryfield Damn, man. Those are some besides simian on oakland. That's miami, kansas city and baltimore field and guys up 162 Run it out there. How the fuck aren't you gonna give Those guys a day off. I hope they were asked and they said nah, I'll play Because I mean you're playing every day on the orioles and you're not given like dude Can I get a breather this clearly doesn't matter and it sucks It's gonna be one day coach It's it's one of my my favorite speeches. I've stumbled into this year, but we forget like these dudes love baseball Like starlin castor starlin castor would not have played 162 games for the marlins He didn't fucking love the game of baseball That's crazy damn Catchers you got churrinos castro gomes flowers weeders lucroy austin romain francisco servelli martin Maldonado russell martin wellington castillo. There's a lot jake Well, yeah, there's there's a lot of guys that are Fillers and you're you're comfortable with them at spring training Grand dawg's the guy who can change your lineup, man. He's the only one that's like going to be coveted the rest You're getting them as a platoon catcher. I don't think you're going to get any of those other guys and be like He's our number one. Maybe churrinos give him a shot. Maybe jason castro, but the rest are kind of You have a platoon situation or a spring training battle or something like that Or they're yeah, they're they're a guy that A lot of these guys would be if you had both of them on your team You'd be like, oh we've we like to think we've got a solid one a and one b Like that that that would be the the kind of bse here But yeah a couple if your team needs a catcher you should be pretty happy with this This'll kind of be an interesting group to see how the dominoes fall in free agency because I don't know. I mean our team's going to really be Fight in each other between some of these guys are they going to be saying? Oh, well if we waited out, maybe we could sign one of them for two million instead of four million I have no idea Right. I had no idea how it plays out. I think it's going to take a while for some of those guys to get looks We'll see. All right Outfield and then we'll wrap this up kind of a weird long-winded episode. So I hope you that we didn't lose you at any point Outfield Jake You got Hunter Pence JD Martinez obviously number one Number two is kind of Ozuna Marcel Marcel's gonna be looked at pretty nicely I like Marcel his he is a violent bat. He can play the corner Yeah, a couple teams are gonna talk themselves into Marcel then you got Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? Pueg? Yeah, yeah And Brett gardeners up there Alex Gordon gold glove winners up there Castellanos Nicholas Castellanos gets traded off the tigers and goes off for the cubs Be cool if he can find himself on a contender and have some fun. I think he'll get a good look And then some other big names here are Let's see that new guy from japan yashi tomo Tutsugo No idea how you say them need him another guy from japan shogo akiyama or is that I'm blanking Avasail Garcia He'll get some looks Corey Dickerson contact guy Arzuna is the exciting one Brett Gardner. I think the Yankees will try to lock up Pueg you're bringing a lot. You're taking a lot on if you get Pueg Where do you want wait? Where do you want Pueg to land? Oh, that's a fun game How about like This is rant literally This is me not thinking at all, but I like them in the Padres, right? Like just getting some excitement going in san diego Just having him being kind of the The crazy guy that gets them going on a day-to-day basis Yeah, I don't I don't even think it's a fit, but that's that's where my mind went Where would you want to see Pueg? I just need him in bright lights. He didn't belong in cincinac Okay Damn, sorry sensei. No, like don't go to the brewers Okay, wow Don't go to the diamondbacks. Don't go to the Rockies. Don't go to the marlins Oh, how about uh the angels put them next to trout boom done Calhoun leaves Pueg comes in Pueg and Madden. Yeah, I think we're I think we're still looking for the Calhoun Option news. I bet if this was talking angels, they'll probably say they're working on a contract right now, but uh Yeah, I mean Pueg Pueg in that lineup being a threat. Sure Madden doing weird stuff Pueg trying to play off of it gets a little weird at points. Yeah, I'm all for it. Give it to me Okay, cool like it All right, I think that kind of ends this episode jake. Do you have any uh big takeaways after going through all this and looking all these names Me this was too much. Like I need I'm ready to react to news instead This is a lot of guys. It's a lot of guys a lot of free agents a lot to talk about No, I I mean, I love it because you could just go down so many different avenues I mean if if this was talking red socks, you'd say, okay, JD's gonna opt out We'll bring in castellanos for a similar price. We make him our our dh You just the wheels start turning and if you're every fan base You see two or three guys on here that you're like, hey I think if we bring in a stribble cabrera and he hits like he did on the gnats He could be a pretty good two-hole hitter for us and then you know four months from now We're like, hey cabrera looks terrible and that's baseball. So I I don't know I I love it I'm interested to see What teams come out of left field? Um And you're right like they're kind of what we ended with Pueg is You know, you want those guys to end up somewhere that matters and like we lost a year of Manny Machado last year I I didn't watch him play Um, I only saw him when I made a breakdown of him Yeah, so and uh, that's and hey, maybe the Padres turn it around. We like Jay Stingler But uh, yeah, you just you you want these guys to be in people's faces because they're some of them are just So talented. Yeah All right, thanks guys. We will be back if anything major breaks. Obviously, we'll jump on right away to do that otherwise, we are still kind of Figuring out the format here as we go through the off season But thanks for hanging out with us. If you have suggestions, send them in follow us on twitter Leave a review five stars only appreciate you. See you later. Enjoy your week. I will be spending two days moving to new york city gonna be Not fun, although i'm very excited See you later jake sucks