 And we are live. I'm Anthony Johnson, founder of 21 studios CEO of the 21 convention Welcome to episode 15 of today's red man group today in the show I have with me the one and only role of Tomasi alumni speaker of the 21 convention and founder of the rational male rhinestone alumni speaker of the 21 convention and Moderator at Mary red pill Dodam and sharp of the sharp reality Who's also back on Twitter at whatever username he will tell you in a few minutes And finally we have new to the show Texas Dom or Tex Big on Twitter and he runs a website at I think Texas Dom comm correct. That is correct Cool. Thanks for coming on. Welcome to your first red man group. Thank you So each one of you what do you guys got going on what's new in life and life and work and the red pill? Well, yeah I know listen we're already stepping over each other's dicks like Ryan was not to do Long story short. Yes. I am back on Twitter at Donovan's Den So I imagine I don't know the over-under is probably six months until they kicked me off again because dude I'm stupid. I cannot help myself with these binges, but but anyway. Yeah. Yeah back on Twitter still on Instagram Now Donovan sharp comm is the only place to get my content Other than of course, you know when I do stuff like this when I do stuff with O'Shea You know individual content that I do put out is only available on Donovan sharp comms Not the way I wanted it, but they kicked off YouTube twice Vimeo kicked me out blah blah blah blah blah there's a reason for that and you guys are gonna fight out here Within the next couple hours Ryan, what do you got going on man? Right now we just finished the 60 days of dread everybody else is posting their little brag reports Mine as well Simple stuff personal wise just bumping pay switching jobs that kind of thing beyond that just early morning workouts spa treatments and Enjoying that new bulletproof coffee that had a lot more recommended to me. Hope I kind of fucked up the recipe But oh, yeah, Dave asked actually Dave asked where the founder bulletproof coffee is a speaker from the convention back in 2012 No shit. Yeah, we know well totally He probably be a big fan, I'm actually guessing he puts tons of shit in his coffee. Yeah, he's always Some people put like micro doses of LSD in their coffee, so your CBD oil is like very tame Confidence man, you don't have to put that out there Well now that I'm back from that long-ass trip Obviously, you know my my voice is kind of fucked up today, so I apologize for that but We had some good times I mean, I thought it was pretty fun to be down in Florida and just hang out for a while you hang out for a day We had a good time. Yeah, that's probably the the the big thing that we did. I guess was You've got a couple sharks, I just got new fish I think I'd like to I think I would like to see if we could maybe add something like that for some of the speakers at the 21 convention where we oh, yeah Oh Boat and go out like once that once the convention is over like just get a bunch of guys to go out there and just That'd be gangster, man at the rate. We're selling tickets. That's gonna be very easy We're over half sold out already in a few weeks. Which is are you kidding? No, I'm not even not even shitting you dude Wow, wow full maga dream train gang and got no ain't got no breaks I love it. I love it. So anyways that just over the last week again, I'm sort of getting back into Working on the fourth book again. Just keep gotta keep going keep going Just I don't know dealing with a lot of haters on on Twitter recently I don't think I'm having any risk of getting kicked off at any to any time But like then I go and I see something like, you know, Andrew Tate just got kicked off Twitter, too So Which is which you know to the surprise of no one But uh, you know wait so his brother's account got banned. Yeah, his brother's account got banned now, too So he's so he's uh And then yeah, so it's just I don't know just sort of working on things and just keeping keeping things going You know as far as the I've got I'm taking on some guys who are I'm doing consults for right now I Presently have three consult guys. I think I might have room for one more but I I usually don't take consults because You know, it ends up eating up and chewing up a lot of my time but in other ways it's it's kind of good because It presents me with problems and it presents me with like situations to sort of consider or reconsider and then When I talk to these guys, it sort of helps me sort of, you know, for meant ideas For posts for, you know, just things in general and it's I think it's always good to sort of keep yourself Doing new things. I think when it comes to, you know Well, my case comes to red pill awareness and stuff because a lot of the stuff that I wrote way back in the day I still come back to you and I still got you know, I can I can always refer back to old posts because everybody says, you know There's a rational mail post for every you know every incident But when I talk to these guys or I talk to people on Twitter or when I'm talking with Pat Campbell or when I'm talking with you Guys, it's it really helps me because I kind of go back and I review old ideas And then I end up refining those ideas. So it's It's it's very very helpful. So I just want to say that, you know, thank you You know, thank you to the guys that I'm working with right now because you're actually helping me, you know Come up with new shit. You get that at the convention too, right personally guys head up to you You know, I should probably add that too. It's like we've talked about this before it's like the reason that we have the guys that we do You know in the lineup, which is just incredible this year I just I understand why it's starting to sell out because it's just so I mean, there's so much quality I mean, where where you find this many guys, dude, it's an all-star team man. Yeah, all-star lineup You know, I mean Ed Lattimore Jack. I mean, we had last week. We had Ed. We had Jack Donovan We had Jake Campbell. We had all these guys, you know, and that's just like a touch I mean imagine having all these access to all these guys, you know And now we've got Robert and now we've got Robert Glover, too. So yeah, Dr. Glover. Yeah, that's what Not even just the speaking either. It was the funny things my first one last year I remember just going down to the lobby to grab some lunch and then all of a sudden Tanner was there Christian was there like half a dozen the guys were there then Ivan showed up And for a lot of those guys that were there at the convention staying at the hotel Just wander about then go and chill with somebody if you want to pick their brain It's so easy all I told Christian was he if you're willing to run your mouth I'm willing to listen. He talked for like an hour. Yeah You know again, it's it's great because it's I think it's sort of a more real, you know, a well-rounded I don't say education, but a well-rounded, you know group of voices talking about specific aspects of How they use red pill awareness in their particular, you know, their demographic their lives their jobs If they have them, you know, how they're how that's working for them how it's working for them. I mean, there's so many different Angles here that I think that I've always been about aggregating men's experiences You know, so I can connect these dots and you know be as useful and helpful as I possibly can be but I mean This is just this is this is the convention. I've wanted to see for a while now I mean, this is the red pill some that I kind of have been, you know I've had in the back of my head for a while, but I think this is this is as close to it as I Think I can I gotta say is the founder that when I started this at 17 that it's really become like a dream come true Not that I knew every step of the way that I wanted it to turn into this I don't have that much foresight looking in the future But being able to get all these speakers and aggregate the speakers like you aggregate ideas has been fucking awesome And it just gets better and better every year, especially since finding the red pill or even getting close to it Like when I had Tanner and Andrew the private man back in 2016 That's been this continual progression to fucking bad assery and I love it you guys are the best I mean, this is this is like absolutely great For somebody that wasn't there last year, let me tell you I I watched the Twitter feeds of the guys that were there and I was Really jealous that I wasn't there by the time this thing was wrapping up So definitely if you're on the fence and you're thinking about going sign up Thanks. Yeah, I think you have a ticket, right? Fuck yeah, golden ticket Charlie the top factory bitches. We actually there's actually a mock ticket We made a couple years ago a golden ticket that we gave out to somebody at the event like a free ticket So put it in a candy bar. So let's text. What do you let's just get a more familiar with you? I mean like what is it that you do and just like me let it let us know, you know I'll let the listeners know like I Would just say that I'm in a long-term marriage. I know it's not probably the most popular thing out there But very married for about 30 years Yeah, you know It was about to all go deep six a few years ago and we got our stuff together and we sort of pursued a formal Dominant submissive lifestyle and we both embraced it and we've never gone back and then a buddy of mine Happen to send me an article from the family alpha and I read that I'm like and this guy thinks just like I do and then Next thing you know, I'm he mentions red pill I end up on the reddit and then after that I end up on Twitter I find you guys are all on Twitter and it's just a outstanding Manusphere type content and it's been no going back ever since Yeah, it comes and goes right the Twitter feeds come and go because we all get banned Well, I don't know about y'all but Me and roller Yeah, I got banned from rep a woman for whatever reason Because I think you know most of my stuff is on the sidebar But like every time I go and I post something they just delete it speaking of red pill women It is it is an abject disaster It's it's it is it is so funny to to listen to these women and God bless their cute little hearts They're trying to do something positive over there I'm not gonna besmirch women who are trying to be better But at the end of the day women can't be better without the help of men Women cannot be left to their own devices even when they're embracing what they believe is their version of the red pill They can't do it and any any man their whole downhill things it used to be the guys around the red pill We're like administrators. They never really contributed. They're just like we'll do the the architecture stuff And then they're like we don't need no man and they fucking all fucked off and now everything's all fucked up Because they got bullied in the leaving to join the hens and then they came back when the user names It's it's really ridiculous. It is red pill women is just like 2x the 2x chromosomes reddit Right if you ever go to the 2x chromosomes reddit like it's dude It is all kinds of fuckery like you know I'm pregnant and it could be one of three guys or you know I've got five dates set up for the weekend Should I fuck all five guys or should I just fuck for you like that fuck three that kind of shit? But red pill women is getting it's getting to that point and any time Man or woman comes in there with rock solid iron clad red pill like real red pill advice like listen You need to submit to your man need to be transparent You need to be accountable whoever the poster is is met with just outright vitriol. It's like oh my god We would never do that. I'm like, okay, is this red pill women or not apparently not Yeah, it's a weird thing with them because I know women have a different Path and we got it's just weird because there's an objective like truth around it and it can't really I Guess if you sugarcoat it, but then the problem is you water it down So there I don't envy that position and I 2x chroma like why you dude That's like watching drag queen drag queen shows like why you're not Listen, you're absolutely right. I do have my guilty pleasures. I listen. I like what I listen I don't watch the mori povich show on the regular but when it's on you gotta watch like there's something about When it comes to three-year-old shamanica, you know Drake Drake one you are not the father Drake one is great fans and doing back What's in the girl's like? Oh my god, it's maybe five other guys can't get enough of that stuff It's it's it's sort of the same thing It's low educational programming. I love it clops are clops are in the chat says isn't red pill women just a cookbook and a treadmill Yes, absolutely want to be a red pill woman. Here's a here's a cookbook Here's a treadmill. That's it Before we get into more today's content I wanted to say that Rola's works got me late a number of times But so has Texas Dom's got me late one time with the really It was really fantastic time and I actually was visiting his site and reading it before I went out and banged the scroll and Actually tweeted out in that day like one of the things that actually made it pulled it off Just wanted to say thanks and site that his work actually has done that for me. We've been a big hope Appreciate that now. You're gonna have to give us some details Yeah, buddy. It's actually hell of a story. I tracked down a girl on Instagram off my spank bank from like college And then I told her that and then I banged her It was fucking fantastic and then you know a couple months before I was plating her so it's a very good time It's super hot present very very good time. She went down. She gets that right. Oh, yeah. Hell. Yeah Making sure making sure you're not backsliding or anything double D's Bad examples of what men should expect The thing that you guys all seem to have in common is throwing ropes and helping out other guys and That's that's the thing that I appreciate the most out of that and that's the where I went from Being more just kind of focused on this whole DS kinky kind of bullshit and having fun with that It's a whole lot of fun. Don't get me wrong But then I saw that there's a whole greater world out there And there's a bunch of miserable son of bitches that were like me that are running around out there And so then, you know, I'm reading Rolls work and read, you know, Ryan had a post the other day a couple months back I guess about the lost boys. I mean, there's this whole generation out there, man They're lost and you know, you throw the ropes, right? Hopefully they pick them up and grab them and pull themselves out So a text text in your in your situation you You've been married for what 30 years now About that now. So so what how old were you when you got married? 27 27, okay So would you say that like when you were when you were how long did you date her before you got before you guys got married How about two years two years and was it like Was it like you weren't having sex or you were having sex before that or did you only have sex after that? It was a different time. No, thanks for going really well, man You know, we decided we want to go ahead and get married and have kids in the whole nine yards, man I'm we'll build this could be at that point. Okay. How old was she then? And and so Like when you got into that marriage, would you say you were more alpha? Before you got into that marriage or was I mean, yeah Gradually happen. That's the same story, right? Everybody. I was I was alpha. I was body garden in Houston I was bouncing at night clubs. I'm a pretty big guy I was doing all this kind of stuff here in college working security and Concerts and just having a hell of a life and you just got kind of solid and Slow down a little bit and then I mean this is shows my age, right? But then all of a sudden this thing called age starting hitting. Yeah, so guys were spinning plates started going Oh, wait a second. You can die from fucking now You know, we just worried about, you know herpes or something, you know And so a lot a lot of guys like myself started slowing down a little bit and looking around and Ain't gonna lie. That was a powerful motivator. There's a lot of stuff going on at the time You know, but yeah, life was good for her for quite a quite a number of years And then we just kind of got things got a little stale and we're working too hard You know started to get to that roommate stage almost and then I got fat and You know and I took it off her granted and she started getting a little lazy as well And it was about it was almost over a few years ago. We were both You know, was it more was it more like a mutual thing like you were you just kind of gave up So she gave up or were you like really more like beta blue pill from the beginning and you thought it was gonna be like Sort of any egalitarian type marriage To be honest Well, I Somebody sent me a picture of what we looked like 30 years ago whenever we were just starting to date And I looked at that guy in that picture. I'm like, I cannot believe what happened to this guy along the way And it's kind of went away, but you know came back and you know a little bit of starting to get in shape You know and started to I actually red-pilled myself before I even knew what a red pill was So, you know, this is fix me to be over. I better get in shape and start doing something about it I think that's interesting because like you are obviously from like a different generation from most of that well, certainly most of the guys are probably listening to this but like you're even a different generation for myself and You know, it's it's interesting to see because I've written posts about this before About the progression from like they say the sexual revolution and you know hormone You know advent of hormonal birth control through like the free love era up through like, you know The 70s the 80s into the 90s and just like and we're talking product to now a problem since a sexual revolution I'm gonna I think we've been like five generations past since the sexual revolution and What I find interesting particularly like to get a guy like, you know from your demographics like experiences what similarities do you see between like the sexual marketplace of now and What you were seeing back when you were like in your 20s and do you know Like can you make any comparisons or well, obviously a lot of shit's changed Okay, I mean a lot of stuff is I think has come to a head since the sexual revolution But I still think that you know from a biological standpoint from an evolutionary standpoint I think that men and women are still the same hypergamy hasn't changed in you know A hundred thousand years But the context within Which that like strategy is expressed has changed dramatically in just the last You know 50 almost 60 years now. I was just wondering what What similarities do you see between like the time you were dating and before like right before you got married? And you still see now and maybe you even see them in your own marriage with you know With how women are you learn a lot in 30 years? Are you living with? Women haven't changed at all in that in that regard. I mean take out social media and the Selfie craze and all that Women in sexual marketplace was still going on back in the day. None of that changed. Um, it's just uh It went nuts with technology You know now you've got all these girls that are getting on instagram and everything else and the hyper burning ramp, you know But yeah, I tweeted this morning that tender is america's number one single mom factory. It looks like it looks like it's getting a lot of play Yeah, but To answer your question roll. I mean the bottom line is I don't think any I think the the whole sexual marketplace thing Has been going on forever Uh, I grew up in the 60s and I saw a bunch of guys that got soft and put flowers in their hair And they were all getting laid taking acid and getting laid in the woods. I'm thinking hey, that's a great life Looks good for me in the 70s hit and then all of a sudden you got the feminism starting to kick in And guys like my dad my dad was a cop. My dad was a very awful guy And uh, all of a sudden he started softening during the 70s because everybody was attacking him all the time Somebody gave him a little old statue of a pig and it said mcp on it and showed a fat family guy Peter griffin looking guy with a screw going through it and it said male chauvinist pig on it They gave it to my dad for a birthday present one day Now look at this thing and my dad laughed about and stuck it on the shelf and I'm like good I'm just saying I mean that that's that's where we were in the 70s, right? I mean it was feminism was kicking in and It's just create a lot of miserable people along the way Yeah, I think that I really think that that's where I mean that was the outset. I think of Well, really the beginnings of where we are right now because I think that when Hormonal birth control came out and when we had the I mean obviously as soon as that comes out suddenly You know coincidentally we have the free love movement. It just happens to be in the right place at the right time We have Feminism really, you know Reinstitutes itself and become something, you know just this juggernaut that we know of it You know what it is today. I'm as far as social engineering is concerned But like I think you're right exactly because of what what happens is when a woman says don't worry about it I got hormonal birth control. We can fuck as much as we want and now it's not about you it's about Who you are as a person? It's like it's like how you feel about yourself inside and it's the beauty of the creature and within or some bullshit like that And yet they're still fucking alphas But they are trying to be more feminized and for trying to be exactly what you're talking about They're leaning more towards this sort of dandy kind of thing because I think that at that point You got to understand that during the free love generation You're looking at kids who are now, you know, the baby boomers now, but you're looking at kids who were You know 19 20 22 You know In that you know in that 18 to 24 range right there who were still learning about Really what what their gender roles were supposed, you know worse You know what traditional conventional gender roles would be in opposition to what the the free love generation was teaching them Because at that point guys thought it was the best thing in the fucking world they thought that they could just go and you know ditch their their Their burden of performance and say because they don't have to worry about it anymore because women don't care about their burden of performance anymore Because we can all just have sex on the fly and I have to worry about it anymore And we could just we can just have fun being these happy little bonobos in the woods and just screw as much as we want to And then I think later on what you see is you see these guys kind of adapting to this new Sexual marketplace and so then you have these guys who who see this Really great open sexual marketplace and so what happens in the 70s? You see these the alphas turn into like the disco kings or the macho guys that we call You know chauvinist pigs right now and and really what happened Yeah, exactly and so those guys those flower children who are getting laid suddenly they get they get so you know replaced by the guys who are the disco kings and the The you know the more hip guys who still want to have sex with a lot of women, but they're you know They're more of this I won't say cads, but they're more like these libertine guys And so they get pushed out and then in the 80s, you know things switch around because In the 80s, we're looking at ridiculing men and ridiculing masculinity And it's the dr. Huxtable Homer Simpson That's the archetype for men at that point and it just goes on and on and on up to Really where we're out right now, but the the case is is that men are adapting to each new um Each new sexual marketplace or each new shift or you know, I mean socially evolutionary shift within The sexual marketplace, so would you say that that's what we do Would you say that the man is fear is an expression of that too? Oh for sure for sure. Yeah I mean the man is fear right now is I think a male space that We I mean if women want to come into that male space and they want to talk about whatever fine But I don't think that the man is fear. I mean it's to To the best of my knowledge anyways I think the man is fear doesn't really try to chase women out of it, but They're not going to pull punches I mean from from the man is fear that I My ideal man is fear is like yeah women can come in there and say their piece, but they're going to You know, it's like I said it's a hot kid It's a hot kitchen And you should and if you can't stand the heat then get the fuck out kind of thing Let me tell you Rolo as a woman. Let me tell you Let me jump in there was one thing for sure that hadn't changed from the moment I was in high school in the late 70s chad exists Yeah That exists through the eons and the ages and that does not change nice guys get slapped down beta orbiters were all around us Back then as well. Nothing of that has changed Iowa You know my high school quarterback from my own football team nice enough dude. He uh our senior year He had two cheerleaders pregnant at the same time Both of which carry will carry the term. Yep Pregnant in grade seven came back came to high school with a kid In seventh grade dam Wow There's always that one chick There's always that like one or two girls in school who are like the pregnant You know, I'm gonna have a baby and there was like they they figured okay Your life is ruined, but let's use you as some sort of example. So, you know, so that all the other girls around you won't get pregnant Yep Let's dive into uh today's topics we were talking about in private before the show got going Uh You guys have that picked out it was uh run the by me Well, I was yeah starting off as alpha just like text was talking about When when men I was going to use that as a segue actually Well, you see I tried earlier. I said speaking You know, but you know, nobody called I didn't prove my speaking skills I was just gonna say the right, you know, I was talking we were talking about this before we came on but like The reason I'm I'm sort of grilling text here about his situation is because it's a very common uh Very common occurrence that I hear from Pretty minor and Ryan could probably back me up on this but from married guys or from guys who are what we call awakened well married that they believe that Before they got into their marriage when they were dating maybe they were in their 20s And they got up to You know 27 28 29 years old and then maybe that's just when they decided to get married and they were these very alpha guys They were they were spinning plates. They were really super You know self self aware self important Like spinning plates living sort of that alpha lifestyle Even if they didn't really consider themselves alpha lifestyle they were they they believed that you know They they believe that their their sex appeal was due to their, you know masculine dominance Uh, you know their their looks, uh, you know, what does they achieve fine? You know, whatever that they they felt made them kind of alpha All of that goes away once they get married and because they get into these situations where Uh, they believe like what we were talking about before they believed in this egalitarian equalist marriage That you know was another result of the sexual revolution where we're all going to be equal and where you know men and women are supposed to be You know on a on a level playing field and so we're throwing away all of this What what text was saying about the throwing away all of this masculine dominance And all of that dominance that was very very attractive to That guy's girlfriend before they got married Goes away because now we're supposed to live in this perfectly egalitarian equalist You you do yours. I'll do mine and we're going to be private, you know separate entities and you end up becoming, you know Like roommates like like you were saying Uh, but they they go from being this very what they believe is being very alpha outside of marriage to being very beta within marriage Now I again, I would argue that's because of egalitarian equalism But there are also other factors involved in that as well. Um, it's it's because there is that familiarity There is that comfort. There is that sort of anti seductive Um Rapour I guess for lack of a better term is just you know, this sort of this oxytocin induced Yeah, I was gonna say it it has biological origin too, right? Women push for this independent feminism There's also and this is a very well steady fact is that when men get married their testosterone drops They they have done stories from guys who have been, you know, these these single Dudes who are, you know hitting it and and living in a masculine dominant way And then they get into a marriage and they're they've done these tests where they where they tested blood Like serum testosterone They've seen that it is lower in men who are married than men who are not married Well, I think the reason for that is simple Yeah, I was gonna say I think the reason for that is simple is because marriage civilizes men Um, and I don't know probably where you were going But does it civilize them or does it is that an evolutionary Step to make sure that the like the parental investment You know Dynamic stays together so that the guy doesn't have so much testosterone that he's out looking for more more ass Or is it also this is it because men who are outside of that monogamous relationship Does you know having a higher testosterone level remember? This is an environmental This is a like a social environmental Thing that triggers that this isn't some biological thing that triggers that it's a social thing Like getting married and getting into an into a monogamous relationship. Well, it makes you less hungry I think I think it makes you less hungry and you can I mean you can look at it from any perspective in any In any field, you know, you go to the you go to the rap industry a guy works really really hard You know, he's he's nobody knows who he is. He's laying down tracks in his bedroom He's paying you know paying 13 bucks an hour to lay down tracks and in a studio He's paying 20 bucks an hour to use all of a sudden he drops a you know, a couple of hit records He makes a few million dollars. He's not quite as hungry anymore. So his heart is not going to be as edgy It's it is quite literally I mean, I'm still bitching about his mom or something, right? That's very nice. So what I what I'm saying is I got the topic single moms Topic for today is we're going to talk about how guys go from this sort of red pill alpha understanding of the world is objective, you know perspective of women while they are Outside of a monogamous relationship and then as soon as they get into that their story changes and they have to find ways to reconcile What it is that they know about women because of their red pill awareness with this Really this blue pill idealism of having this nice egalitarian marriage or whatever you want to do good boyfriend girlfriend kind of thing So there's this there's this sliding as I was saying that a lot of the guys that I talked to who are married and Ryan Ryan maybe you could speak to this is that They get into a situation and they say oh man. Rollo. Help me. I was so alpha before I got married and now I'm married I'm beta and I lost the frame. How do I get the frame back and and nine times out of 10 Those guys didn't have the frame to begin with That's what they don't tell you But they think that they think that they were they were alpha before and they were getting laid and then suddenly They get married or they move in with a girl or they get serious with a with an ltr and they They suddenly Lose the frame. They're not getting as much sex and it's like exactly what I was talking about in iron rule number I think it's number four What you know Shacking up never move in with a woman that you're not going to end up marrying at some point because really what happens is You would think that you're gonna have sex on tap because you are You know paying for rent and you're living together and you think you can just do it whenever you want to When in fact all you're doing is reducing competition anxiety. You're reducing urgency You're reducing all of the things that led to her being hot to have sex with you in the very first place So when you get into those situations when you get into a monogamous situation I find that guys stories change they change to being something That's a little bit more accommodating of the woman that they're with they try to make up I mean, we've always said this before one of the reasons that I always sort of Advise against guys getting into these platonic friendships with girls is because they put up with so much more shit From a girl that they would ever from their own guys. I mean there's there's stuff that I have me personally Okay, I have put up with as with my girl friends back in the day that I would have probably got in a This fight with my gut moving my boys if he had done the same fucking thing, right? And I'm What is it that that triggers that way? I understand you guys are probably going to get into this We're going to probably talk about scarcity mentality and abundance that that one right there is is pretty much a given but again, it's these guys who get into these situations and They and and I'm seeing this in the man's sphere right now. I'm not going to name names, but I mean I could Well, I could name Tucker max. Okay. You know Tucker max is a really good example of this Okay, and there's a lot of other guys like Tucker max, but I'm just gonna use him because he's really easy He has you know, he was the I hope they serve beer in heaven guy, you know, he was the guy who was That they're here in college. You're following this guy watching exploits with chicks then what happens is he ends up I guess he ended up getting a chick accidentally pregnant and Recants his whole, you know, uh, his whole alpha bad boy lifestyle in public by the way on on tv I mean because they love to make example and the feminine pair loves to make examples of Look And he's not an asshole. Yeah, right Then what happens if you look at the cover of his first book and the cover of his most recent book It's like the first book is him with some chick with a Blanked out face and it says your name here kind of thing And like he's gonna nail his chick the next book or the book he has next is like him Holding a baby and his face is blanked out and his wife is there with him and it's like the ultimate capitulation. Is it exact? That's bad. That's terrible. This is the guy that has to go back and he has to sort of reinvent himself and you know delete his past and Recreate himself as someone who is yeah, I know a little bit about that red pill stuff But I'm gonna tell you this you know this purple pill this watered down message because it fits better with My lifestyle right now. So it's like the apologetic alpha like permanently Listen, listen, there's no such thing as an apologetic alpha. I'll put it to you like this and listen check this out There there's there's a well, no, no, but but listen to what I'm saying. This is kind of tongue-in-cheek, right? I saw this meme that says there's a word for men who don't have beards. They're called women Well, there's a there's a there's a word for apologetic alphas We call them betas if you're an alpha male like if you really are if you're a captain of your own frame You don't apologize for shit Like what's this guy doing? He goes from being with a chick to being with a baby like get out of here with that But you know what that means that means he was never really that guy in the first place That's what that says to me that shows to me that is lack of congruence If all it takes the point lack of lack of congruence If all it takes for you to completely recant the lifestyle and say I've been wrong Hey, you have your jimmy swaggered moment I've sinned You know, I'm gonna come short of the glory of god blah blah blah blah blah If all it takes for that kind of role for that kind of Of a reversal. Yeah that kind of rollerversal is you accidentally knocking up a chick Then you are never that guy in the first place you my friend Like you're a fraud like that's what that is Well, I sort of agree if you sort of disagree with you donovan Rola wrote a post on blue pill alphas and I do support the idea that they exist But like you're saying it's it's a deep in congruence. Sure, right So When I wrote that, okay When I wrote the just real quick right when I wrote that it was because I people were trying to make this association that if you are alpha You are automatically red pill. You are not that's I there's no that is yeah, I agree I can give you an example after example of these guys who are very very blue pill conditioned But are also very very alpha and they'll those are the guys who make the worst white nights The other guys who will just stand up there and say, yeah, you apologize to malady, you know And they'll do dude listen listen listen Nothing nothing Boils my blood Then a dude Guys i'm here to tell you nothing makes me more ready to fight someone When some dude tells me to apologize to a woman or when he apologizes for me, right? I'm sorry about dude. It makes me want to put my fist On behalf of all men everywhere and I you know, it makes me feel like saying dude like you know She's not fucking you right like you get that don't you that that is what that is exactly why uh, the good man project will always fail It'll always be seen as these capitulating Surrendering pussy guys who think that they're gonna speak for all men and apologize for all them, you know the The bad things that you know what man listen deep down these guys who apologize. This is the thing man It blue blue pill men to me are fucking cowards Because it's and it's not like you have to find red pill truth To know what you want and a woman to know the way women are supposed to act You don't have to find it you have it deep within you because you are a man Blue pill men are men who are simply afraid to reach down and grab their fucking balls and be what they're designed to be Right like that's what that is and the only reason why they're blue pill in public is because they think it's going to curry favor With women like the only reason you're talking that way is because you think susie over here is going to fuck you That's the only reason if you and i if you and i were face to face in one room You wouldn't talk to me like that because you know i'd fucking crush your face Or or you would agree with me like behind closed doors blue pill guys Yeah, fuck bitches this and that and the other but then when they're in front of all their female friends Oh, no women are equal women are strong dude shut up. Yeah, they signal lots of game get out of here with that Right, so i'm gonna tie this all together in a nice little bow, which is actually it's perfect that you're here text because your story I think just the greatest example for it So you were saying you uh used to be an alpha and then you slowly went beta And preface it here that i really don't like using alpha as an archetype because it kind of muddies the waters Just think of them as like sets of behaviors. You probably had a ton of alpha behaviors Maybe a couple beta ones because you weren't a complete fucking psychopath. That's fine Here's the thing though 10 000 like when we joined when I joined married red pills, maybe 5 000 people. It's around 20 000 now Every single story sounds exactly like his mind did his does and that's exactly like you said to hunter Hey, that's the exact same story. I fucking had And it's we are not that special every guy does the exact same thing and it's just like you were saying gone of It's not They weren't they didn't have the alpha personalities like they had them But they weren't self aware as to why they were important They just kind of went with the flow right so when a girl applies pressure to Civilize you you're gonna go with like a bad poker hand Yeah, and it's like oh, she's on my team She's got my best interest and she maybe does in her mind But in practice it doesn't work that way And sure enough, it's the greatest way to get your get your frame back It's frame isn't something you have it's something you are first off right But and that's exactly like text was talking about with his roadmap first thing he did got into shape There is no fat fox with alpha behaviors. They're just right That makes you attractive. You got to build and I posted a link into the youtube Comments here. I'll post it again because it was a while back But it was a study that showed out of all like the dark triad personality traits that only narcissism Was linked to better sexual strategy And the whole point of frame is narcissism. You got to build a healthy level of I know people think of it as some kind of uh Disorder like, you know having autism, but it's not it's just extreme man And if you go to the far side of the spectrum, you got borderlines, which are extreme woman The idea is you've been far too much in the borderline where your identity is based on fulfilling the other persons Which is just like rollo was saying with the tucker max your face here You're not a person you're a set piece in their life And that's where that slowly becomes beta thing comes from So it's really hard to cloch that you basically have to put a guy into asshole school for a bit Teach them how to say no and on the extreme levels. It's uh tickets are now on sale to asshole school at the 21 connection dot org By the way, testosterone replacement therapy can can get you in to to asshole school pretty quickly All about it, dude. I'm all about it. Yes Yeah, tons of little things people will learn like for example, some wives just do the once a month duty sex thing And the guys are frustrated. How do I get through this? Such an easy solution is just stop having duty sex and It doesn't happen all the time But the guys you do what you're supposed to do is just get up say this isn't working for you Don't get mad just put your clothes on and go do something else with your time Same as my gym bag theory. I talked about at 21 convention If you want to get out of once a month duty sex The best thing you can do is get up right in the middle and go do something else Telling you right now There will be a shitstorm a shitstorm of feminine power thrown at you deny her your seed and you will see what comes out behind the mask You guys are always wants to fuck somebody just not you Right, she gets crack at it is the rule of thumb And that's the narcissism part of it and you start building you get the right first refusal, bitch But if you refuse, yeah Yeah, and everybody and but you got to be hot otherwise like she's gonna call your bluff and it will be a bluff And that's where the lifting part comes and the learning game in that and that's all fine Yeah, and at the end of the day it's it works because you're not bluffing about you want a better life You're just not putting up with things that are subpar if she's giving you duty sex you stop fucking her then you go do your thing If you go to hit on her and she shoots you down Well, you're going to the gym anyway So you're doing that like you're making your time a scarce resource and it's based on them being valuable to you So the same way that text for example trained his wife essentially to be lazy and gain weight in that He can train her right out of that. He trained her to be a good woman and it's the same thing And I think a limitable man he said this is that uh, a woman is a reflection of her man So if you got a really shit wife, you got to look in the mirror first That's right. That's right. Yeah, and you and maybe she is a cunt and that's fine. But until you get the shit together You don't know that Listen at the end of the day your woman is a reflection of you like guys can talk all they want all my wife is fat And she's bitchy. Okay, that might be right But guess what dude like that's because of you your wife is fat and bitchy because you allow her to me Exactly and the the single guys with plates same thing if the chicks that you're with are treating you like shit Then why the fuck are they around that's a you problem my friend? Totally basically they're following your lead for better. That's right exactly Well, what we see out there is that you know guys basically get lazy women have to step up They get resentful and say oh, they don't want to fuck you anymore. They don't want to be around you You get fat. You look in the mirror. I wouldn't fuck that. That's why I should cheat And so you start working that thing out though I mean you start you start working out and getting better And you start stepping up and your frame comes back a little bit and you take some of this burden off her She doesn't have to worry about the shit that you've been fucking up so bad for the last couple of years Now she's not worried about this. She's not worried about paying the bills. She's not worried about those other things She can embrace her submissive inside That's right The things that she wants to do and make the house look nice and plant the flowers outside and make sure dinner's ready And all these other wonderful happening for somebody else will Yeah, so it's a two-way street. I mean you feed them. I'm giving her something in return I'm taking the burden off of her and she's feeding me back by taking care of me in ways that I didn't even know I needed That's an interesting camera stops right here Yeah, let's let's not make this what we call a patreon episode, right? I've been known to patreon a few episodes in the past But yeah, you and and again I'm sure you guys get a lot of emails and we read it all the time on reddit and in post Yeah, my woman doesn't do this and she doesn't do that. Here's the thing man And there's really no other way to put this but the responsibility is on you If your woman if your woman feels like she has to do everything else If she you have to relax your woman. You got to take care of the shit that she's worried about or she's not Going to take care of you. It's just like tech said Relationships are it's quid pro quo. You scratch my back. I scratch yours. I'll listen. I'll take out the trash I'll paint the house. I'll fix the fridge. I'll repair the washer and dryer You suck my dick plant the flowers and have dinner ready every night. It's an exchange. It's an exchange of services That's what this is Your woman has to be relaxed and she has to know that the masculine activities are being done for her to embrace Her feminine submissive side. It's the only way it can be done One caveat on that to covert contracts a lot of guys fall into that trap like you're right But when they do it with the expectation that she will provide her side at the other end That's the part where it kind of comes into trouble. Yeah, women don't owe you anything, right? They don't so you kind of have to be outcome independent So like you're doing this and she will do this stuff in return because that's what couples do That's the frame. Yeah. Well, see this goes back to duty sex This goes back to duty sex if you're upholding you're into the bargain and she's not upholding hers Then guess what? It's it's time to get the fuck out of there. You know, I mean Yeah, find something better to do and you indirectly well, yeah find some yeah somebody to do something better Anger friends. Well, there you go. But but you directly tell her that you're on your way out the door That's the dread. That's the dread part of it. It is I think it's some weird manipulation like it's not like you're not bluffing. It's not a manipulation I am doing this you do what you want with that information. It's not that hard Yeah, well and guys are two guys are two because they're well first of all most Well, it's just a face and most guys are beta and they believe that if they Don't make it work out with their wives and they're going to be in a really tough spot Because maybe they got you know, most guys don't get laid more than they don't was it What's the average partner count? It's like three or four guys from I think it's like seven seven Yeah, the average man is up with seven women. So, you know, on average the guy is going to sleep with seven women Well, you know that guy that's the weekly average for today's woman. By the way, just a little fat That guy is Most likely Especially if he buys into all of this blue pill conditioning buys into the soulmate myth if he buys into one It is if he gets you know, if he buys into this attitude American dream Well, yeah, well this yeah American dream, but American dream for a guy is submission from American dream for a guy right now Really? I mean from the institution of marriage is putting yourself on the line With you know, it's a it's a suckers bed and the suckers bet keeps getting worse and worse Well, you know the the rewards certainly don't outweigh, you know getting getting involved that we could talk about that all day We've had a many a migtail show where we talked about I mean how how long is it until men are getting married in pink vagina hats Right probably already. It's probably already happened. I would say we're probably That's where it becomes tough for these guys is because they they feel like they have become blue pill When actually they were probably blue pill before they even got married But they don't understand things and I and ryan probably knows it's like one of the worst things that can happen to a guy Is that can be you know 50 60 or years old and they're in a marriage of like 25 30 years And they're awakened while marriage well married and they become red pill aware and they don't they don't realize all this time that they've wasted You know that they could have been you know doing something differently or they could have had a different effect if they had just been brave enough To take chances if they had just been brave enough to institute Dread if they had just been brave enough to not warrant to do exactly what you're talking about be outcome independent and do that You know get up in the middle of sex and say fucking i'm out. I'm gonna go fine I'm gonna go play golf or whatever you're gonna do um If they had that they don't give themselves permission to do that first of all because they're beta and they've they've you know Most of these guys are already in that situation But they don't realize that if they had just done something if they had demonstrated instead of explicated I think that that's really what it comes down to that these guys in these in these marriages is they're afraid to demonstrate They'll talk about verba. They'll talk a good game. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I wear the pants of my relationship That or they will give you ultimatums if she doesn't do this. I'm gonna you know that doesn't Or they'll negotiate no, it's higher and they just don't get that because they don't they're afraid to actually pull a trigger They're afraid and the reason why they're afraid is because they have that scarcity mindset They're afraid to scare her off or piss her off. Oh my god if I don't get the pussy I'm never gonna get it. They don't say this to themselves But it's it's a subconscious It's a subconscious thought if I piss her off Then i'm never gonna get any pussy and and by the way women know women can smell they can taste They can taste the scarcity. This is why they give you duty sex. Ah, let me fuck him to shut him the fuck up Then i'll set my you know alarm. Okay 30 days from today. I'll fuck him again Maybe if you play, you know, you know, it's pretty low rollo How you were saying how they get angry over like that all the last time I'm finding it's we don't have a lot of them, but it's usually the opposite It's like that guy who did 30 years of prison and then gets acquitted because he was innocent. He's just happy to be free Yeah, there is funny like the the shortest anger phase in guys is the guys who have the largest reason to have one You know, let's also mention this though. So All these things that or I agree with everything it was just said but at the same time There is a steady stream of propaganda That's being force-fed to guys Maybe not organized but in disorganized fashion from every facet of the culture And that's the blue pill. That's the lie and that is being shoved down every guy's fucking throw it from every from church school Work university, you know family at this point multiple generations So it's like there's a lot What I see right now what I see right now is I see a group of guys who either they Were red pill before they got married they got into it and they are trying to make some sort of excuse or some kind of reconciliation between their red pill selves and The need to be like in this, you know, what they think is a blue pill idealized relationship with a girl They they don't want to hurt feelings They they they don't want to agree with the stuff that's unflattering of women that the red pill while he was single He was a whole hundred percent on board with but now that he gets into A situation with a woman with a long term. He starts looking for ways to kind of go. Yeah Well, I never really agreed with that I never really thought that that was and and again like a chucker max again It's just this reconciliation of of trying to balance this Really hard objective truth that the red pill presents to these guys And they use that to get into the relationship that they're in and then suddenly it's it's the dream girls with dynamite Are dream girls and children with dynamite situation where these guys have got their quote unquote dream girl They think maybe she's red pill They think she's a quality woman and they get into these situations And what do they do the first thing I do is they start trying to find ways to capitulate to her sensibilities or to to reconcile Them being in a relationship is because they know on the back of their head and their hindbrain that the truths and the Especially the unflattering truths that the red pill presents to them Is tough to make work Well, you're still with that girl if you still have your blue pill ideals Firmly up your ass. Okay. So They'll start looking for that. That's how purple pill gets started. Is it so it's this halfway pointer It's I agree with this point Until what they say doesn't agree with me staying in this relationship with this woman because I don't know how she would take that or I don't know, you know, we got to be more We got to respond to when you suddenly it's all about you and suddenly it's mental point of origin When you are, you know, you know single and red pill and it's all about you and suddenly Yeah, because it's all about you you get you get a hot chick and you get a girl that you you really want to spend some time with What do you do the first thing when you get into that you start making all about her What is that though when you said it's not that uh It's not that she gets mad. It's that he's worried. She'll get mad and I think that's a funny distinction there Like women's not actually beta eising some of these guys. They're doing it to themselves because they want to believe in this unicorn It's almost like they have to screw themselves over. Um, I don't want her to get mad So i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna acquiesce to her and with regards to hurting their feelings Oh my god, I don't want you don't want to hurt her feelings. Listen girls are like muscles You got to break them down to build them up, right? Like this is this is this is how it has to be And if you listen if you're not You know what I mean, right? Yeah, listen text was all about this If you're with a woman if you're not with a woman who can and I mean these women are few and far between But if you're not a woman who just like rollo said can come to grips with these unflattering truths At least out loud then nothing's ever gonna change if she's gonna bitch complain Well, that's not really like it is then guess what one of you guys is gonna change You're either we gonna you're either gonna become blue pill or she's gonna become red pill Either way you guys are not gonna be on a different program You guys are going to be on one program one program or the other which program you're on really depends upon you You know something I was thinking about donovan that's very much in line I think with one of the things you just said is that the blue pill is almost like Causing men to unintentionally bait and switch women into relationships. Yeah, like hey, I'm super alpha just kidding beta Like they you know so listen girls want listen girls want you to be selfish They want they want you to be their mental They want you to be your own mental point of origin and the reason for that is women don't want to complete you You guys remember the the film and those of you guys who are old enough You guys remember the film jerry mcguyer, right and tom cruise walks in and renaise elwiger is all you know Whatever he's like you complete me and all the women are like Well, guess what that's attractive when tom cruises doing it on a movie screen That doesn't work in real life like all listen There's all sorts of beta behavior that we see on the television screen and by the way romantic comedies is porn for women That is quite literally the equivalent when a guy spanks his junk to pornography That is the equivalent of a woman watching a romantic comedy But when they see guys like Hugh jackman and I think it was the guy from 300 You know you see all these romantic comedies and all of these beta behaviors looks super attractive because it's those guys And this goes right back to what rollo was talking about blue pill alphas I'll tell you guys a quick story a really good friend of mine tall good-looking blonde guy He used to be a blue pill alpha in that girls always flock to him this guy had no game But he has underwear model looks as far as he was concerned. Hey girls are great All you bitter guys out here you guys are getting it wrong because girls are great Of course you think girls are great girls never try to screw you over because they think they think they're fucking Liam or or chris hemsworth That's why you think girls are great, but in the back of his mind He still has the same blue pill mindset as anybody else out there He just happens to be wrapped in a more attractive package than most men I think guys end up giving up their freedom along the way You know and the day you try to get it back I think the ultimate freedom is to look her in the eye even if a long term together and say look I'll be okay without you. There it is. I want you there it is But if you dude, I believe you're okay without me with that look Door goes both ways for both of us, you know, and I know that and she knows that And so it kind of keeps us on our on our game a little bit more, you know I was gonna say I attribute a lot of the success of my marriage for 22 years To well first of all my career my career has put me into situations where I'm around young beautiful women quite regularly or certainly a lot more in the past anyways, but Uh just working and doing what I do And being you know sort of still in the game or still in the marketplace though still married And so there's always this kind of passive dread that I think that a lot of guys are very Uh sketchy about like if they if they're a woman if they sense that their woman is in some way jealous or is in some way Uh thinking that they're you know, they're gonna lose them They they just bend over fucking backwards to kill that dread that dread that would otherwise really improve their Their relationship with their wives if they just would just let it be I'm not saying go out there and And you know go flirt with your waitress or whatever like that, but if the waitress flirts with you There you go Don't deny it and don't don't fight back against it. Don't you know, don't try to you know, hold your wife's hand and say It's okay. It's okay, but there's that there's still that competition anxiety and even if it's in the back of their head And that's why I'm I'm not a big fan of ultimatums. I'm not a big fan of of telling a woman if you don't do this, bitch So I'm out, you know that kind of well, here's the position Yeah, not only that is strong position. We can listen not only that It's it's a verbal thing if you give a woman a verbal ultimatum Yeah, that comes off as try hard But when you like ultimatum should come indirectly in other words your thoughts and actions should give women the ultimatum Just like ryan said when your woman is giving you duty sex, all right Well, no big deal. I was headed to the gym anyway that gives her an ultimatum You can either fuck me like you mean it or you can sit here and figure yourself by yourself until eventually I'm out the door You don't have to say it, but your actions will give a woman that built an ultimatum Well, here's that here's and that's a well and we're real quick that that's part of demonstrate Do not explicate and what that means is that your actions are always going your actions trigger Imaginations in a woman and the right woman's imagination is the best tool in your toolbox So she's imagining these things if she comes to it organically on her own if her girlfriends say wow, your Roll is really hot, you know, I you're so lucky to have them or something like that If you have some sort of third party affirmation, so if you have it's it's so fucking difficult And I think every guy every any guy in a relationship will say it is very difficult to get Social proof and pre-selection Within a marriage because that woman already knows who you are. She's lived with you. She's had kids with you She knows how your fart smell. She knows what you'll look like in the fucking morning She knows everything about you so to generate and to find some way To generate social proof and to generate pre-selection while you are in your marriage That is a that is key and to do it without seem like you seeming like you are doing it So it's like again, it's demonstrating it. It's not talking about it because talk doesn't do shit talk is just Negotiating desire pretty much any conversation you could have with a woman Whether you're talking about mowing the fucking lawn or turning on sprinklers or washing the fucking dishes or paying the bills Or keeping the lights on or whatever you got to do all of that is you negotiating getting like Pretty much that's what it comes down to when you're when you're in that that that kind of a marriage Well, here's a good tangent topic or segue topic off of that What's the difference between boundary setting and maintaining boundaries and ultimatums other than action not words I've I've a very long I've a very long post on that I've got a post on uh on ultimatums ultimatums in my in my opinion ultimatums are declarations of powerlessness And what that means is a one especially it's easier to understand this if you think of it from the perspective of a woman If a woman tells you you better do this or i'm i'm not going to give you sex You better if she delivers you and it's Ultimatums come very natural to women because women feel very entitled they have very If things don't work out in their little solipsistic brains Then they will resort to an ultimatum They will be as overt with it as they possibly can and what that is is that's a declaration of powerlessness In saying that I am at my wit's end and I have no other recourse And I I can't play the game with you any longer or I can't win at the game that I want to play So give me what I want because I'm powerless and give me what I want And that's really my opinion from when it comes to to ultimatums when it comes to boundaries though There's something that guy I have a um, I've got a post called, uh, I think it's called mutiny and it's I've got another one called boundaries as well But it's these guys who believe that their wives are their Their second in command like they they they're they're a little bit higher than they are Yeah, they're yeah, this is my he's my co-pilot dude. You're a stewardess Get the interest I tell guys, no, there's only one captain and then there's whoever else is on board the ship with you Whoever's gonna he's gonna help with you help you do that because ultimately it's great to get advice from your number one But that number one is only there because you are the captain in the first place So there's that aspect of that that I'm gonna let text jump in here and just saying because I know I know he's gonna say But um, and then so I was gonna say setting boundaries is yes You got to set boundaries within a relationship, but the best way and really the only The only way a woman will ever appreciate boundaries is if you demonstrate what those boundaries are You don't say hey, look if you go out on a girl's night out I'm never gonna fuck you again You know what you do you let her go out and then you're you're somewhere else or you're demonstrating What happens when she does that and if she does that again, that's what's gonna happen again She'll figure it out Of fucking things that are gonna happen and I'll to mean them as a classic limb kick Yeah Tough time with what people say. Oh the key to a a healthy relationship is open communication Bullshit, you know what it is. It's what you communicate. It's not that you communicate And so when when women say that, oh, you know, we have an open communication. Well, what's that old communication? Oh, that's a negotiation Yeah, yeah, exactly comes back to negotiation I don't really think you should go out with your girls on girls night out because it makes me feel bad inside, you know Well, if you're going and you're Relating that message if you're relating that instead of demonstrating what happens and what those boundaries really are Then you're like, okay, you know what you're gonna go out on girls night out fine I will going out on a stag my when you get back because that's the boundaries. I have said Yeah, my woman doesn't have girls nights out in vegas and you let them How learn that behaviorally because you can't I tell them that you will not tell me Text text go ahead. Go ahead I don't even know where I go with that Now we have a saying in my house only one person can drive the bus at one time Right. Yeah, that's been the problem. We had this power struggle for years and years and and The essence of a dominant submissive lifestyle is it is a consensual power exchange Um, and even if you kind of delve off and go into this little fantasy slave master thing, which is a lot of fun, by the way You know, it's she's giving up her power. I mean you you have to drive the bus and she's expecting you not to crash it You know, and she's completely giving herself over to you. It's it's a trust thing and it happens pretty well after a while But you know, I do agree. There's no, you know, I'm getting off getting up at the steering wheel and walking the back for a sandwich And having her jump in to take it over it doesn't work It doesn't work. No, I like that. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, that's what it's gonna say is uh I I've told rich I've told rich cooper this before is that that that is really the The ultimate expression or the ultimate test for whether you are a dominant guy within the relationship Is to ask yourself this question and say does my wife does my girlfriend? Whatever does she trust me with her life? If I say, hey, we're gonna go uh skydiving today and I packed you a parachute Is she gonna put the parachute on and go, okay, let's go or she gonna be like You know, or is it gonna be like Are she gonna allow you to drive the car and I have talked about this before it's like my own wife was the first woman whoever Said here are the keys to my car. I want you to do the driving you're driving this car That really has sort of set the tone for my marriage ever since was like she expects me to drive the car Literally to go and drive the car By the way, text, um, I wanted to see this earlier in the show when your dad got that, um, that Hey, you know, you're a chauvinist pig Trophy what he was what he was supposed to do ha ha ha and put it in this drawer But what he did that that my friend was a shit test, right? Let's make fun of him for being a chauvinist pig. This guy agreed and amplified. Ha look at that I'm gonna put that on my mantle because I'm proud of who I am Listen, your dad moistened panties. Your dad was red pill before before we even like this is what happened Oh, my oh, you know, you're such a chauvinist pig. Ha ha ha ha and they expected him. Holy moly $50 super I was just about to say Yeah, like like he was supposed to say well, not really not this dude said yep putting that on my mantle I am who I am Girls listen back when I was in Vegas slaying sluts. I got this all the time that have been you're controlling and possessive Yes, I am dude. You own it man. And at the end of the day feminism That's what i'm saying. Oh, you're so controlling and possessive. You're just now Figuring that out like you didn't you didn't read the fine print Like that's what this is man Feminism is one giant shit test and the men who spit in the face of feminine of feminism are the guys getting laid the guys Have been fulfilling relationships The attractive ones that are otherwise, they're just there you go. There it is. There's a caveat They're the guy that ended up on national news for moving out of their parents house at 30 He just called he just called the cops on his dad today apparently so That guy the 30-year-old guy that's still living with his parents Any of us get to know who this fucking guy is this is like Thanks, cnn, I guess By the way, we talked about that on pat camels. By the way, by the way, that guy is gonna get less pussy than nicolas cruz The niggas how much does he get now? Well, listen, obviously he's not getting any but if he thinks this notoriety is gonna lead to women You got another thing coming brother Like dude like honestly like nobody here is advocating going and shooting up a school But again if you do something violent like women Like like violence arouses women whether it's legal or otherwise dude women don't get wet over dudes who get national prominence for suing their parents because They made him move out like that doesn't happen. Get out of here with that So we were uh, actually I was out of prison in missouri and we were doing some uh Narcotics testing on some envelopes of mail that was coming in and uh, yeah the real shit Oh, yeah, I opened up a letter and I'm looking it's got some stains on it We're gonna test these things and I started reading it. So yeah, I'm allowed to read this and started laughing They don't do that. You don't want to read it and she's talking about how I really come to to appreciate who you are Even though we've never met Unbelievable Hi with you and I want to talk to things and I'm like this can't be really good Seriously tongue in cheek here, man If there's ever a blue pill guy out there who thinks to who who really who just is bad with women Dude go to prison right commit some heinous crime and go to prison Dude, you'll have women throw in their panties at you at a higher rate than anything man again tongue in cheek But that's this is this this is how sad the world is today You have to you have to commit like ridiculous crimes to get put in prison to get any respect from women And it shouldn't be like that and the removal of birth control removed all responsibility That is directly correlated with that We got questions coming up. Yeah, I just put the put the word out for some See if we got some in Man hell on a super chat. That's that's great. Yeah, dude I mean Matthew O'Keefe with the $50 super chat. Holy moly. Yep. A little cam shows doing well guys Hey, there you go There you go Anthony Anthony dream swinging dick johnson that gets you to the helicopter one yesterday, right? The american dream dude right here Yeah, it's funny as I see I see a lot of I you know how like I think the word or the term or the idea of incels has sort of now Passed into popular lexicon good. It's like right when right when these guys like It was funny because that if it's four years after Elliott rogers And I mean I wrote several posts about incels back then and now I'm sort of Considering writing my next post about incels because there's so much going on with it with respect to you know You know guys thinking that they're oh, you know people thinking that incels are owed sex And I see just podcasted for podcasting and in interview after interview and just these you know These talking heads talking about incels as if they are like, you know fucking experts in incels and how Yeah, and how we need to to curb them and it's like everybody's just can't you know I was reading article after article from women who are saying, you know Oh, well, these these are the new terrorists. These are gender terrorists and all those other stuff And so a week later. What do I see in in twitter the most popular insult that like Feminists and leftists and s a w's all they're saying is like you're a dickless incel. Huh? They finally got their version of cock. There it is. Yep. That's exactly right Good question. We got some questions here guys. Let's get into a little bit first one's very simple from user booboo Can fact eyes attract women? No Yeah, why would you want to how fat are we? Talking right Honestly, I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be mean here. But but but but if you're a fat guy Okay, you know what that was actually a little bit of boop old ottoman coming out, right? Listen, dude, if you're a bad guy, like why are you trying to fuck like how do fat guys fuck? How do fat people fuck dude? No, don't no. Don't do that. Don't don't don't be lazy. Can fat guys attract women is code for I want to be able to attract women, but I want a shortcut to be able to get there. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's not how All you have to do is stop eating That's one of the one of the biggest problems I think I have with like mainstream pickup artists like the guys who are just out there and like they're just 100% game game All the time the only you it doesn't matter what you look like you can just go your game Like I've seen these and you guys should look these up I've seen these posts or these podcasts or these videos of these guys who will put on a fat suit Right. They'll put on like they'll look like they have like fat and then they'll have more big baggy clothes and make it look like They're overweight and then they'll go out to just to prove to you that it's all about game, right? And game can can overcome like, you know being 300 pounds and I'm like, well, you know, even if that were true Why would you want to be that way? I mean and I was like I was I was flying back from florida last week And I'm going through a couple of airports that go to an airport if you ever want to lose faith and fucking humanity Let me tell you Look at how many people are overweight and are morbidly obese And I I think I don't know what the the statistics are right now But at the last I looked I think it is 68 of the american population is overweight And a third of them are are medically morbidly obese if you can put yourself in just a normal weight range You've just set yourself above 70 of the other guys that might be trying to get laid, right? And if you're fat Yeah, can you get laid? Can you use game to get laid when you're fat? Yes, you can't but you are not going to be fucking a fitness model No, you're not you're not you're going to be able to get to a a specific point or specific degree or specific level of You know sexual market value that might be a little bit better than or or anything that you're getting It might be better than than what you're getting right, but I don't see why you wouldn't I think honestly, I tell guys this I say, you know, I do see that game is very important I think it's I think it's probably if I had to rate them all game is the number one important thing But that doesn't mean that looks aren't important. That doesn't mean that affluence is not important That doesn't mean that status isn't important all that stuff is important But they the deficits that you have have to be made up somewhere else So if you're this if you're like Louie Anderson or whatever and you're this huge fat guy and you're funny Dude and you make a lot of money that might be able to offset enough You're never going to have really genuine desired sex, but you're going to still have sex You know, you can see anybody can go be a sugar daddy any anybody can go get laid I live in Nevada you but the endowment literally you know, how easy it is to just go to an outhouse and go get laid If you want to get laid, yeah, that's not a problem. It's like what is what is generating? Genuine desire and it's not you being fat. I'll tell you that right now because there are no there to my knowledge If somebody can like post this if they want to to my knowledge, there are no dating sites for women who are chubby chaser Because men will fuck anything because we have we we set our own preferences by what has been successful for us in the past But you will not see you'll see the dating sites for very rich men You will see the ones that like executive introductions those those exist But you will not see a chubby chaser site for women because Because women's sexual physical standards have never changed Well, that's because women have more options than men It was always been this masculine ideal for for masculine beauty for women and that's that is the guy who is ripped He's got the athletic, you know that classic Greco-Roman look where he's you know, he's got you got some muscle too Maybe he's not like, you know, huge bodybuilder guy. Maybe that's intimidating But he's got to have some definition. He's got to have some build. He's got to have a v taper He's got to have you know the jaw. I mean there are some universal standards for a way that a guy should look According to women because their standards do not change They are the most static that you could possibly think and that's why it pisses me off when women go Oh, men have this horrible physical standard that we can't ever live up to we can't we can't live up to that You want to know what that is man? Listen, go and look at any niche porn. There are midget sex. There are blonde sex There are skinny sex. There is pasty white sex. There is black sex. There is There is a million different different categories of porn, you know for women You want the physical standard for women is it's that Greco-Roman standard? Never let's get Texan. I was talking to a friend of mine, a younger guy on Tinder He said you want to know how fat you are. He said get on Tinder and see who swipes on you I love sex so much. I love sex too much to ever let myself get that Well, I like Ryan's comment that fucking while fat is like driving driving drunk. Sure. You can do it But you really shouldn't That's fucking brutal But see here's the thing like like guys who are and I'll call them low level Low level mig towels and we hear a lot of this and rollo you hear a lot about this Well, basically, you know, if you have if you have money and looks you get women That is that is the lazy man's approach to life What you're saying is what you're doing is you're giving yourself permission to be a fat lazy fuck And not do what needs to be done to be attractive to women So on the other side of that coin, we have women just like rollo said Well, I'm not a 10, right guys only want 10s. They have these irrational beauty standards So I'm never gonna I'm never gonna get with a guy of value. I'm never I'm never gonna be a 10 So I'm just gonna be a slut It's easy for women to be women to be sluts and it's easy for men to live in their mom's basement and eat Cheetos and play world of warcraft for well call of duty now I guess I should update my my lines there, but yeah play video games for 18 hours a day Let's move on to the next question from Sean Layton Uh, I think it's to be a quick one. I'll just try to answer it and if anyone else was an analyst Let's jump in go for it Sean Layton says what does y'all's take on ayahuasca and do all of you plan on trying it I would say go to goldman unleash.com and see what goldman one of our speakers last year and this year has to say on it Yeah, goldman has entered the spirit world probably more than any other red male person I've ever met Yep. Yeah, I think he's probably he's got like several posts about it. I think he's done it twice now, but I understand that it's supposed to be sort of eye-opening as you know existentialism or existentially opening you to some new experience or something You know, if it's not cbd oil, I'm probably not doing it ayahuasca is definitely not cbd oil I um I don't know. I I have a I had I did a lot of drugs when I in my in my youth. I've done lsd. I've done shrooms I've done marijuana. I've done cocaine. I've done Ecstasy, but I mean we're talking I mean, I did I this is my rockstar 20 was a bad dude, man And that's so like when somebody says oh, you should take ayahuasca Or you should try taking ellet like I haven't taken before like they say you should take lsd It'll really open your expand your experience Like yeah as a creative person. I kind of felt like that, but I don't want to turn my mind to silly putty. Okay I mean I want to have I want to have I I'm better sober Then I will ever be enhanced whether I'm drunk or I'm stoned or I've added something to my brain I mean, I I understand like I've taken modafinil before I know that I've taken cratum I've done all this other stuff too. I just to try it out. So I know that what what people those are, uh, Neutropics or something. Yeah Modafinil and cratum are both metropics. Yeah, and modafinil I got I got kind of a kick out of for a little while but I developed such a Tolerance to it within like, you know, the first few times I was taking it that doesn't take a while You have to and then I got I got an allergy allergic reaction to it. Like I got like shit on my tongue for Oh, that sucks Wow, god damn Yeah, I don't mind race fans CBD oil too. I have never tried modafinil but I just started doing CBD like two days ago I just started doing it like yesterday. So Um, here's an interesting question here. Um The holy devil says guys, can you recommend and I don't want to hijack this here because I know Says guys, uh, can you recommend some red pill influence today? Today everything is bullpill songs except rap books movie series. You cannot relax Well, I can't tell you this right as far as music is concerned Dude, rap is at rap is really the only like consistently red pill at least Rap like back on the night at the 80s 90s and early 2000s. If you're looking to say mumble rap ain't shit What's that that mumble rap? Oh, no, no, no that ain't shit. No, no I'm talking about dude. I'm talking about the old school days like the nwa dr. Dre Those guys yep. Yep. There it is dr. Dre 2001 As far as like books that I would recommend listen, we listen We've got the godfather of the red pill right here the rational male series read the manipulated man by ester velar Um, uh, what was his name the futurist wrote the missandry bubble basically everything in the sidebar of the red pill subreddit Um, the the predatory female by the rev by the reverend lauren shannon. That's a good one The book of puke is also a good one. Um, yeah, yeah, I mean those are the red pill books red pill movies I think blue valentine is very red pill. It's very sad, but it's very red pill I have a warning tale I have a book coming up the uh, the art of the dick pic. I don't know if you guys saw that my That's red pill right you get listen listen 200. We will read it Listen 200 pages, which is 200 angles of anthony's dream dick, right? That's red pill as fuck I would say look Just real quick. I just look for guys who are have a more of an objective Objectivist outlook. I think is really important. Um, you're not going to find guys too many guys are going to go I'm a red. I mean other than probably myself. You're not going to find guys are going to go. I'm a red pill Right, right? They're gonna they're going to just want to focus on particular aspects of the red pill but like I think that uh, I always I always say Uh, what robert green is a great great author 48 laws of power. Um artist seduction. Oh, yes That's a very good. I would I would also recommend the red queen Selfish gene that that might be a little Dry reading for some guys, but like if you want the information that's really good And I'm going to go ahead and recommend this but other book is called a hormonal by uh, dr. Marty hassleton if you can get past her sort of Feminist virtue signaling the research and the numbers that she has are just absolutely They lock into ovulatory shift and pretty much everything I've ever talked about when it comes to hypergamy is all backed up in that book There's an old science fiction series. That's uh called gore geo art. It's all master slaves So if you want to read a masculine, it's like pretty something different books I know it's everybody said it's poorly written and all that my girl And I absolutely love these books Pulp fiction Pulp fiction used to be a very red Guys, I'll uh recommend this book as well. It's a super normal stimuli. I found it uh, probably about six months ago Something like that It's a good book on understanding the things that women do to make themselves appear more attractive everything It's all I mean the book is not written from red pill perspective, but from a red pill perspective You'll understand it really well You understand why girls are putting on lipstick fake tits all kind of push up brush like that You understand like the evolution or history of it. It's called super normal stimuli Good book. There's a there's another book that's out by dr. Warren ferrell who is I kind of have mixed feelings about But like his last book is called the boy crisis and it's like how we are educating our boys to be like defective girls Right now and it's all all statistics and all research backed up I've been using a lot of the the numbers that I've picked up from this book for You know when I'm talking with pat or I'm I'm answering questions and stuff like that Again, I don't I don't necessarily agree with what they think is there, you know, perfect egalitarian equals outcome But the the studies and the numbers are bulletproof We had a question as well from uh one sec just can you get uh, whoever this guy is at me on twitter? I got a shopping list for you. It's a bit bigger. So I won't waste the time spouting it off here when nobody will remember All right, thanks Okay, so the question we had next was I wonder if this is warlock from the red poll reddit Warlock wisdom. What's your perspective on husbands who can handle their wives, but not their daughters? Oh That's a good one assuming the question is has good. Yeah, it's a good foundation to it. I don't know I don't have a daughter I think I can probably speak to that because I am married and I have a daughter. Um I think I handle my daughter quite well. Thank you. Um, she is I I always tell guys that, you know, you need to be that masculine Red pill role model role model of masculinity for your daughter you want your daughter to sort of see you as What she's going to base her understanding of masculinity on for the rest of her life. And so Uh, you can sort of get an idea whether you're being successful at that or you're being a failure at that Um, just based on like who is she dating and what are you going to nail that decisions? Are she making that kind of stuff? But I think what the specific question here is is that A guy can handle his wife, but he's like I'm going to just say he sort of submits or he like Wait, he doesn't check his daughter. Ables is yeah, it doesn't check his daughter doesn't enable her. Uh, I think that a lot of guys When they have trouble with their daughter, they are transferring their understanding of You know, their their perspective or the woman how woman kind You know understands men And so what they're doing is they're taking this sort of pedestalization that men already have of women And those guys when they have a daughter they take that pedestalization and they put their daughter on that pedestal And so they they don't want to deny her anything. They want her to you know They want most guys most beta guys will just to prove their feminist cred Will put their daughters into taekwondo or they'll put their daughters into into little league baseball Or they'll put their daughters into any masculine kind of thing That's basically what they would want their son to do because they believe wait just so you know I believe in egalitarian equalism look my my I put my daughter in a boxing class or some You know some shit where it's like it's something traditionally masculine. I think that guys do that Sort of more from themselves to prove to the world that they're not they're not the sexist typical asshole shoving a pig Big father. I'm going to uh, she's gonna be a boy scout. You know, she's gonna be this She's gonna do anything a boy can do and then those guys get behind that and then that guy ends up later in life Being exactly who this guy is talking about With how do you not handle your daughter? Well, the reason you can't handle your daughter is because you put her on that pestilence because you treated her as if She is your little feminist project And don't be surprised when the when the frankenstein monster that you created comes back and gives you shit And you don't know how to handle it or brings you back brings you back a kid out of out of marriage single mama Hey, I don't have a lot of regrets in life, but I can tell you Um not getting a little red pill not getting my act together with my wife until after my kids were gone Was probably the one regret I have they did not get to see A proper father acting like a proper man and I regret that now my son's 27 And we've had leadership talks for the last four or five years. He's red rollo's first book Good No, he's on it. I mean he he participated in uh fraternity of exiles We didn't in a march a couple of while back and I mean he's he's on the self-improvement track, right? And he's unfortunately he's got the same red pill lens now. We all be right. You can't watch a movie anymore You can't read. Oh god. Yeah, listen to a freaking song. I get it, but I mean I'm making up for it now, right? but It should have would been nice if they could have seen it from the get-go Do you have daughters two tucks? I do And she's a damn mess So there you go keeping it real. I appreciate your honesty. Sincerely listen. I've talked about my own mother before I'm listening. I talked about my mom. I love my mom But listen man, she's she fell victim to the feminist narrative too. She jumped on the carousel after she got separated from my from my dad Nobody's immune to this stuff. I'll keep it short and sweet three kids just got divorced And the dad's going back for custody again. Oh, yeah Yeah, well, yeah, so I mean it's it's real. She's real, but uh, you know, that is a regret But I'll also tell you guys this rollo made a very good point Um when he says you can tell you're doing a good job as a father Or you can tell the job you're doing as a father By by her choices and men and I'm gonna make a direct contrast between white Between white fathers and black mothers If you're a white father and all of a sudden at the age of 17 Your white daughter is dating black guys, then you my friend are a failure as a dad That's got that's got nothing to do with her choices or anything like that because here's what's happened Just just just like text just said you are a sorry example A man to your daughter your daughter watched you get pushed around get bossed around your Watched you have do well didn't watch you have duty sex with your mom Basically, she watched you get rocked all over for 17 years and she and and and it's not like women And people say well women go out and they look for men like their fathers They look for men like their fathers only if their fathers are masculine men, right? Women don't go out looking for blue pill beta men. Otherwise, we wouldn't have any such thing as in cells Okay, these blue these in cells would be getting laid because they would be looking for for men like their father But when white fathers asked themselves, where did I go wrong? Like, why does my daughter date black guys? She's looking for that masculinity that she didn't see it in you and she associates Here's what she associates masculinity with not your skin tone. So now we're going to take it to black mothers Why is my son dating white girls because you were a sad excuse of a woman, right? Well, i'm a good mother really is that why your son dates nothing but white girls now? Well, i'm a good father really is that why your daughter's fucking black guys You need to look at yourself in the mirror and say listen My daughter's choice in men my son's choice in my son's choice in females is a direct reflection on who I am As a mother or a father white fathers and black mothers have that in common They get pissed off when their sons or daughters date men and women of the opposite sex And it's almost like a reverse quasi inverse projection because they know deep down The reason that their daughters are dating black guys or their sons are dating white girls But they don't want to they don't want to admit it to anybody be better Donovan i wanted to ask you too. Did you have a uh Sort of a related tangent. Did you have a dispute of the day with alan roger curry? I saw something on his patreon about that Yeah, yeah, um, you guys cool now. What's going on? No, no, we're we're we're we're totally cool We um, we were on oshae show um last sunday And um, I was on oshae and we we were talking about a um, we're talking about the difference between like My assertion as far as pickup game is concerned is to get the girl's phone number rather than giving a girl your phone number And the reason why I feel this way is because which is more impressive a guy who says well I gave my phone number to 250 girls this weekend or the guy who says yeah I got 16 phone numbers from 16 different women now on his side of the argument He's um And he uses that he uses this mode one approach. So basically we had a philosophical disagreement Well, he felt that he felt that I had disrespected him because of because of the way I talked to him and listen He feels the way he feels um, and I feel the way I feel Out listen alan roger curry is is uh, he's a veteran of the game He's an elder dude alan roger curry was running game before it was even called game So when it comes to knowledge of women, I'm gonna defer to that guy I'm gonna refer to i'm gonna defer to that guy every time that being said I have my own perspective like alan ARC is 55 years old I'm not some 21 year old who doesn't know anything not that he not that he didn't apply that but we had a philosophical difference I watched the video. I called him directly. We you know, we aired it out and everything is cool So i'm not gonna get into these beefs where and somebody actually alerted me. Hey alan roger curry said this about just said Okay, well, I'm not gonna go into this back and forth beef or anything No, dude me nor me and arc are 100 cool. He's coming on my show on june 14th Everything is back the way everything sounds to me like sounds like men's sort of shit out Like yeah, this is the way it works, right? I didn't go I didn't go and yeah Yeah, I don't I don't I don't like it and you see this a lot with women They don't directly confront each other nor should they because that is a masculine thing to do But i'm not gonna go on some i'm not gonna go on some rampage or whatever I had I had issues with what he said he had issues with what I said we talked it out We're cool. He's coming back on the show nothing's changed. This is all men handle shit You guys are both speaking this year at the convention. So you guys can Shake hands and sing kumbaya as well a couple months and then we'll duke it out in the parking lot Oh good good. We'll live stream in periscope rollo. You got that one. I got the reach on him though All right, we have any more questions. I think we had a few more in there There's a lot of chat per usual Well, it's gonna say is the um for a la ronja curry It's it's not uncommon for guys to have a disagreement with the guy because he's all about Direct game. He's all about go up and ask the girl out and just like put it on the line And that's right. I think that that that has a lot of merit to it. I think that that Especially when it kind If he's about one thing it's about being pragmatic and it's about being efficient He's not not wasting time and not fucking around going. Oh, do she like me? Does she not like sure? He's that's his I think both Both this books I'll tell you something else here I'll tell you something else too a lot of guys in the chat were like, oh, why is the rc getting emotional? No, a rc didn't get emotional He got passionate and he had he had a good reason to get passionate and the reason why is because this is his life's work Right like the mode one approach. This is a brand. He has worked on for the better part of the last three decades There's no way he's gonna come on There's no way he's gonna come on a live show and say, you know what? Maybe the mode one approach is flawed No, he's gonna stick by his brand as he should By the same token if I disagree with elements of the mode one approach I'm not afraid to say it. I'm not afraid to you know I'm not afraid to have a back and forth But at the end of the day we're on the same team and when it comes down to it Alan Roger Curry and we both speak the same language. We just use a different dialect That's what it is. It's like nothing to see here There's generally disagreeable it'd be kind of fucked if you guys agreed all the time over every Exactly I don't like that emotional or you mad bro. Shit either that bugs me Like yeah, that's stupid. I'm gonna give a shit about something You're gonna hear me raise my voice and speak with some candor. Oh, you're goddamn right at well. Oh, yeah Are you mad bro? Yeah, come here. Let me tell you I tell you what if I get asked about joining him on a podcast and I say I'm not going with that, bitch Oh, yeah, dude Listen, I just reached the debate rollo good Wait say what I I invited ruche to debate rollo on 21 live You're not the first one rich did that too. Okay. Yeah, and he totally he just totally ducked out of it He's like rollo's a bitch Like i'm not doing it, but he did No, he he debates like random losers on youtube like Just random fucking assholes. So it's like why Did you watch that thing with the valenti chick Maybe I've seen a little bit of him debating people like random google hangouts I won't rich the cook notes because he couldn't be bothered to get past 15 minutes I hear in a 20 year old twitch streamer clucking like a chicken and I'm like That's a 40 year old man arguing with a 20 year old woman online for fucking hours. That's what I was saying I say you're you're arguing with children who are just they just want you there to throw Fucking tomatoes at the monkey in the cage. That's all they want. Yeah, and here's the thing His whole shtick is I'll get you laid. I can teach you game how to be suave and deaf in there Well, fucking give an example. You got a four hour podcast there Try to put on a little bit of charm. Maybe even throw a flirt. Maybe even an opener Not uh, I gotta yell like I'm an angry fucking weasel Well, the thing was is is that originally I mean this the thing with between me and air c It didn't start off that way. I was on with oshae Alan allen decided. Hey, you know, I disagree and oshae said hey Well, alan roger curry wants to come on. I said yeah bring him on like let's let's do it I don't I don't mind debating and here's the thing we actually I don't know about him But I learned something You know like like I learned every time I talked to you guys I learned from you Even if I even if I disagree with something like the things you say, you know what there are elements of that That's maybe I didn't quite see you know in in a in a in a certain way and another guy alpha male strategies Decided to jump into sort of like a three. It was like a royal rumble of sorts It was dude three and a half hours of just knock down drag out fun And awesome. Yeah, dude. It was great. You should check it out And we all learn from each other and we all were civil and this and that and the other and then of course alan You know put out the video and you know, listen, I'm not going to say that that was right or wrong Like I said, I handled it I'm not going to say anything disparaging about alan because alan is who he is and I am who I am I'm not going to apologize for being who I am and he's not going to apologize for being who he is But we're two grown men who had a disagreement on air He handled it his way. I handled it mine. We're still cool. He's coming on my show and that's that I get some toxic masculinity guys. I get so many guys like saying, oh You should you should debate ruche or you should debate uh, jordan peterson or you should debate this guy or whoever All right, first of all, if I were to debate those guys, I think it would probably be one of the most boring ass debates You ever listen to because there's so little that I I mean, I agree with a lot of what ruche is saying I agree with a lot of what peterson is saying and so they say well, you know You know, you just focus on these these the issues that you don't have or that you do have a problem with I'm like, I'm I can do I can make a better case For what I disagree with in a post or I can I can I can write you a more detailed I you know, so you can track down what I'm talking about and you can understand the dynamic But I mean, I'm all I'm all about it. But You know, I don't think I like I think a live debate I doubt they would change their minds But if you guys did debate I think it would highlight whatever those differences are Like you and drum Peterson, for example, the dominant hierarchy thing He's all about the dominance hierarchy until it's a family all of a sudden that shit goes out the window Which is bullshit that egalitarian set Well, and the other things and I've got a I got a post coming up about this too It's like Peterson is is a good example Of one of these guys who got married very early and never really experienced the sexual marketplace in their life I mean they got they you know, he's been with the same woman for a very very long time I'm guessing she's probably I'm betting that he probably or she's probably the only woman that he's ever had sex with his His dating experience and his understanding of women Really comes out. I think in Or lack thereof comes out and a lot of the stuff that he talks about So what I would say is that there's there's these guys who and this is usually true of like guys who are like These evangelical pastors where they meet their their wife when they're 19 at church camp and then they get married when they're 20 years old And they're well, and then they want to tell you Oh, I know everything about dating and I know everything about men and I overthink about women and I understand And basically their advice is just basically placate to women and pander to women and be You know be as supportive as you possibly can and be as you know Uh, my understanding, you know, and don't don't rock the boat and it just is bullshit It's the same blue pill bullshit But they're they think that because they got into a relationship and they've been in a marriage for as long as they have That they that makes them qualified to talk about the the nature of men and women I'm like it simply doesn't have not just not just qualified qualified with authority Yeah, they don't have they lack the life experience to really understand Then you give back to that sample size equals one I always have to be careful whenever i'm talking about what my girl and I've done It's a sample size of one, you know, and I got to be real about that Yeah, that's exactly the reason exactly the reason why I tell guys don't use my marriage as some sort of Benchmark or some measurement for your own or what you think you have Well, rollo's a message did it so why can't I Well, that's right. Yeah, I said well rollo's married or how can rollo talk about this when he's married I'm like, well the reason that I've had such a successful marriage because I'm red pill aware and because I've internalized it And because it's part of who I am and it's worked out very well for me Is it going to work out for you automatically? Are you going to be a rollo clone? No, it's not going to and I'm never going to tell you to do that Well, let me say if there's two rollo you in your rock star 20s That was you operating in the sexual marketplace in a masculine way. That's not what women should do But you did I've got a really unique experience in that like I've gone from being like this blue pill chump in my High school days to being like this kind of alpha You know semi pro musician rock star guy back in the back in the late 80s and early 90s And then I've been the abject, you know, almost omega guy with a Bpd girlfriend to becoming you know to to dropping that and becoming more like of a Lesser alpha. I guess if you go by what heartyce talks about and I've done all of that I've gone through, you know, my notch count is like 45 women Which I used to think was a big deal and now I don't because I know guys in like the triple digits now Well, you're still you're still like 600 higher than the average male. So But I've also been married this line could talk to you about marriage I could talk to you about uh, I could talk to you about being in a marriage and Keeping you know keeping it fresh through and the thing is is a lot of people try to disqualify rollo They say well, he dated girls back in the day. Well, guess what text just he just confirmed it for us Dude girls are the girls are the same now as they were back in the 60s Listen, man the environment listen the operating system is the same The hardware in the office might be a little bit different But guess what a mac is still going to be a mac a pc still going to be a pc women are still going to be women I can talk to you about I can talk to you about how you know being in my line of work and Sort of being a social scientist really as you know, my promos and things that I've done, you know For my career and then I can also tell you about how to raise a daughter from you know An infant to adulthood and I can tell you what happens as part of their acculturation and I can I can tell you You know that there's so many I have such a wealthy experience I I don't think that ruche is going to be able to tell you the kind of stuff that you know He's not going to be able to tell you about how I feel that when people I think that when people say hey We want to see rollo versus You know jordan peterson or rollo versus ruche. I think to me that has sort of a sideshow appeal They're not really That's all that that that's all that is like that that's basically red pill mma. They're not looking for confirmation They're looking for after me now. I'm here in texas. We say Don't wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty in the pitch. Yeah, right like It doesn't make any sense because people have already taken their side, right? Like like like like there's nothing that the other person is going to say that's going to get you on their side You just want to see oh my god my guy owned your guy and then the other guy's no my guy owned your guy To me there's nothing to be gained. Well, I mean I don't I don't think you know, I think I've I have credited ruche and two of my but in the first two of my books I still think he's got a lot of good things to say most of that is the stuff he had in his past Um, I think that he's also gone through what a three-year ltr He's come out of that and he's suddenly come back to being red pill again Uh, he had shifted his narrative from well, this is what happens, right? Well, first he was very yeah what we were talking about in the beginning here Is like he was very very much red pill and and I like I said, I quoted the guy I used to be really good friends with the guy. I was on his private forum on on bruce v forums We we've bounced ideas off of each other um, and then he sort of made a shift right about three years ago And oddly enough, that's when he got into this ltr with someone that you've met and now that that is over Now he's come back to being red pill and having his advice and everything else. I'm like great I'm glad to have the guy back But it's a perfect example of what we were talking about in the very beginning of this show Thou guys will they'll they'll be very very red pill. They'll have they'll get into an ltr They'll get into some sort of situation where they've got a where they feel in the back of their head because they still have never really killed off All that blue pill idealism To the point where it would help them in a marriage or help them in an ltr And they they slide they backslide into this this blue pill uh, you know I don't know making compromises compromising what they know of the red pill truths They compromise it so that they can reconcile those red pill stuff that they know and but it doesn't apply to me You know and he's a good example of that. I don't I don't have a problem with him I think he's still doing I'm glad to have him back. I but that's why I reached out to him But you know sure a little but it's it's easy for well It's not easy to be red pill like like we all know that there are costs But it is easier to be red pill quote-unquote when you're single You want to show me someone who truly is a red pill aware male? Put them in an environment where it's not Easy to be red pill like a long-term relationship or a marriage if you can if you can if you can remain um If you can if you can keep and apply your red pill awareness within the context of a sexual relationship Long-term or otherwise with a woman then that says to me that that's who you are But if all of but again just like your guy tucker max if all of a sudden your your shift in gear is this that the third Well, again, you were never that guy to begin with See I'm with you on that and I kind of disagree with rollo in that I don't like having him back because now I don't know what to think It's like you said if you're not consistent, then he's just telling you what I want to hear It's like uh, no offense to anybody likes him, but Mike sernovich. Well, yeah, I write a ruse. So yeah I think I was I think I had this I had this conversation with anthony or maybe it was sambota one time I said, you know, it was right around the time when Donald trump was starting to make waves and he wasn't I don't think he was the candidate just yet But it looked like he might be and so you saw a lot of guys in the in the manifest fear of the red pill community who used to be very You know very into the intersexual dynamic side of things and they shifted gears and they shifted into into election mode And so they suddenly they became, you know On the street journalists and they were at they were out protests and they were at the the dnc and the rnc And they're they're going to all these places and they're doing all this kind of stuff And they were basically shifted over and I think in some cases it's believable and in other cases It's not but I told I told sam. I said look you will see these guys completely change their Their direction and their motivation. They're they're gonna be they're not gonna be the red pill guy anymore They're gonna be the political pundit guy now and now that trump has been in office for you know as long as he has And that all of that electioneering and all that kind of indignation has died down These guys don't know what to do with themselves They they're like they they just gotta have to wait until the next election cycle They're gonna have to wait until they can find the next I wouldn't have minded that either It's just when they turn around and then said fuck all these guys on their way out. Yeah, exactly Exactly Throw the red pill under the bus because And you read something of theirs now. Are you telling me what you think I want to hear or are you telling me? That's possibly true. I need to learn I don't like that. All credibility is going at that point. That's the problem. Yeah, exactly Guys, we have a question that was asked uh twice So I think we should get to before we close up the show The user was his name is exagerizi his first question uh, he clarified it now too, but the first part was How do you care? How do you carry yourself socially even though you are redpilled others around you have more life experience The attitude told you in the chat man. Just be pleasant. Keep it light Are you talking to him? Start talking about hypergamy against people I just met. No, it's like, hey, it's very nice to meet you Oh, hillary clinton. Tell me more. I've been out with the midwestern pound He's out of this world that hates men He's out of more to the question his question now adding to it is I want to hang around Or superior people so that the that they rub off on me But I can't really shine when they are demonstrating higher value by simply telling their stories, right? Shine to who? Yeah, I don't know where this guy's going with this Well, if you want to be around those kinds of people, yeah 21 studio or 21 convention dot dot org. I think it is Well, I want to hang around better people Be valuable to them. That's all you got to do and if you're trying to shine on women And you're not the biggest status guy in the group And maybe go find yourself a subgroup where you can shine Alpha as a status there's yes, there's only one alpha in a group But there's billion there's an infinite amount of groups We'll make yourself another one Maybe if you put rollo next to the stone temple pilot smat off that example and guns and roses He's probably going to be the other one. That's db man, but that's fine That's what I mean They're like the higher status and the rock star thing, but you put rollo in his own band all of a sudden now He's king dingaling That's uh being a contextual alpha There you go. Whatever whatever your context is you can the guy who is teaching the class is the automatic There you go, and this is why And that's why the professor fucks his students my friend South korean kid can have korean chicks all over him at an overwatch tournament. You can figure out a group to be You guys don't find this amusing, but I used to teach jump rope at the gym like the wreck of all the center It was all the women that came and then I would fuck them Yes, and uh, I was still purple pill. So I didn't know I was like, is this unethical like I don't know should I be doing this but I did it anyway I think people need to get that that myth out of their head though They need to think that they think that if they just go hang out with the right people that all that shit's gonna rub off on them They're gonna magically Absorbing like through osmosis. Just yeah, you're the average of the five people you hang around No, that's not gonna happen. Did you need to have me to be able to I always tell guys like You know men need other men to relate within to hang out with it. We need our tribes, okay But if you're setting out to build a tribe That's where you fuck up because men Women talk and men do and men need to have something that they do So what is it that you like? You're not just gonna go and say, oh, I'm gonna go join this entrepreneurs group Well, what do you do? I don't know. I'm just gonna join this group and hopefully those shit will rub off on me And I'll be an entrepreneur too like magically by you know association. No, it doesn't work that way You've got to have some sort of direction to yourself You've got to have some sort of mutual interest that these guys also share with you as well So that could be anything. I mean, you know why guys go and play golf all the time and they talk and they do business deals because they They're all into golf and that's what they do, right? Well, this is exactly how I formed the convention too back in the day the very first one that the whole company essentially I sucked with girls and I wanted to get better with women and then I attracted, you know 80 dudes that were like, hey, I want to bang more chicks too And before you know, we had speakers in a conference and here we are at 11 12 years later Well, it's like what I think really the guy needs to ask himself What is it that I'm really passionate about? What do I really like? Right? And then now I'm gonna go and say, okay Well, I really like Snowmobiling so I'm gonna have to I want to be a really good snowmobile or so I'm gonna hang out with some guys who are really some good kick-ass snow Yeah, then you're gonna learn some shit because you all have the same interest and you all have some Directive you can't just get together just to like magically be more confident I get to get together and bang more women. Yeah. Well, right That might be your passion Well, listen, I can imagine Anthony with the jump rope The jump rope in class. So Stacy, I've got the vintage jump rope being collection at the house. You want to come by and take a look? Oh, sure. Then he you know, you know, it was it was a lot simpler than that. They got very over They got very very much into it. Yeah Jump rope in class with the titties where the titties bouncing. Is that what uh, yeah jump higher? That's it Let's do let's do the girls had nice butts not nice boobs, but some of them had nice boobs All right, I'll ask him a question. Do I'll give him a quick little anecdote to illustrate this when I was in college He's a looking guy. I had a friend named Paul Six foot two 220 pounds looked like the rock Fucking amazing gorgeous man. And you know what happened? I didn't get status when we hung out. I liked him But when we were out and chicks were there I was the one that after he shot them down they would try to make me the emotional tampon When I got success is when I would go out sergeing on my own So I just kind of accepted it But yeah, so if you're going around status people to have it osmosis Lee add to you It's not going to work. You're just going to be you're just going to be the uh The janitor I guess the best way to put it But if you're if you're hanging out with guys with more live experience pick their brain, you know take advantage You know, maybe find a mentor in the process Well, I think it goes back to what rollo said, you know, uh pick a passion I mean if you're a a glassblower, right just be the best and listen The I say this all the time a man who's an a plus at one thing One thing is going to fuck hotter chicks than a man who's a b-minus at everything So you can be shitty at everything in life But if you are the world's great or not even the world's greatest If you're the best fucking glassblower or underwater basket weaving expert that you know, then guess what? You are going to attract the track to people. That's just how it is. Just be the master of your own universe He man That us Is good a lot of guys like that too a finding with you have more experience guys and just It's a validation thing where you're like you're the top of your trade. I want to pick your brain and learn from you It gives a guy a bit like it tells him he's made it when other people are looking to me for guidance Yep, so don't be shy about it. A lot of guys have actually been working hard to have that kind of respect And as long as you're willing to put in the effort and pay attention to what he's talking about and take him seriously Yeah, you'll reap the benefits you can't just show up and learn by osmosis and listen You can't hang around more except like people say well if you want to get rich hang around rich people No, if you want to get rich hang around rich people and develop rich people habits That's how it happens He can't hang you can't come to the 21 convention and laugh and chuckle and shake hands But if you don't apply anything that we talk that we're going to talk about in october You've wasted your money. No, you got to internalize that stuff. You have to listen to what we say We have to bounce ideas off of each other Yeah, just don't just don't ask them stupid questions, you know How many girls have you how many girls have you fucked on them and dude? I lost count at like a thousand like How big is your dick don't have been I don't know an inch and a half. I don't know Give or take elite dong Yeah, right exactly. Oh my god, don't if you have a two or oh you ever hear girls say, you know, you know You live with your mom. You have a two inch dick and might agree and amplify it. No, no sweetheart That's two and a half inches I'm saying guys, let's start winding the show down. We're beginning to run out of time. Let's actually do that Let's do it in a very explicitly promotional way What speakers or what speaker in particular are each of you excited to meet this year the most at the convention I mean, there's probably a couple obviously in each case, but If you have a few one or two you wanted to pick out and meet are you looking forward to meeting? Who are they? It's easy for me. It's alan roger korean. Definitely rollo okay You're a hero rollo I would like to I'm cash because I've met most of these guys already. So I would say that's a mugging. That's a mugging. That's a mug right there. Dr. Sean Sean Smith is he's the guy that I really want to just sit down and just like Take out a notebook with and just like pick each other's brains. No, no love for a lot more dude. Where's it? Oh, yeah, that's right Busted I mean, how do I pick one though? Roller, you were supposed to look you were supposed to say donovan sharp man Like didn't the PayPal come through donovan sharp only because I say I say Sean Smith because he's got the I mean he's got the correct I just want to see how big Ed's hands are like there aren't many people that I'm physically afraid of like I've been in many fights, but I know I want to get a picture of jack donovan and and let him work together I'm getting pictures with all y'all I'm getting pictures on otter listen Listen, I'm gonna keep it real guys like I'm there to speak and I'm gonna be mr Donovan sharp, but I'm gonna be a bit of a fanboy. I'm just letting you guys know up front Yeah, same Yeah Last year the one I'm surprised didn't get more press was Joe Navarro I think he was from last year's speeches. He was probably your best I loved having him there Yeah, he was fucking those guys are like, yeah, it's the ones that have nothing to do with red pill They're on their own thing and they just give they're just they always come from some shit and they teach you something which is awesome In his case the FBI so true not too bad I think I'm looking forward to actually breaking Brandon having a beer with some of these guys that I've been talking to For so long now online for the last couple years, you know like a hunter drew 100 particular dark triad man, um, you know, there's a bunch of guys that I I talked to you know, it's like I read all this stuff. I'm like you don't I'm gonna be fanboy all the way. You know. Oh, yeah This is so funny, man Like just to kind of just to kind of circle it back I remember when I first like when I first started getting into red pill writing And even now like and if I can be a fanboy even now it just completely blows My it blows my fucking mind that I am on a podcast with rollo fucking to massy again Like it is it's it to me It's just unbelievable and rollo. You remember this a few years ago. I remember I saw you. I recognize that you were on Oh god, you were on mcarran. I think you took a picture on on mcarran I had no idea that you lived in reno, and I recognize you're how does like wait a minute those look like the It looks like he's on mcarran So I was like, oh my god, rollo. It's a messy message to be back And here I am a few years later on a podcast with this guy with this guy. It's just unbelievable We're really gonna have to go take a shit after this and see if it still stinks. Yeah, baby God Smells like roses brother Well to answer to answer my own question. I'm most excited. I've met a lot of you ready I'm excited to meet you of course donovan, but for me it's a tie up between shan smith and richard granon I think Richard granon's the youtuber that invited to speak on like cptsd narcissism stuff like that Okay, our specifically malignant narcissism not the kind that we talk about in a productive sense and a masculine sense Ryan did you want to hop into? No, well, I'm just looking into that. I didn't know about his thing until just now and you got me hooked Oh, Richard granon. Yeah, Richard. I sent you a PayPal to right since you paypal, too Now you're on you're on dude I think Richard granon will be it'll be like Richard granon and uh, dr. Glover I think rubber Glover will be like the Joan of aros this year The guy's coming in from outside the man's fear to bring a lot to it I mean kind of a part of it anyway, but not on the level that we are I think guys that come in from outside of the man's fear. I think to be honest with you I think they give I think they give the red pill even more credence. Oh, yeah Because it's like, uh, it's almost like they're saying yes, this this makes sense Like, okay, it has a bit of a name But I'm living the red pill life even though I don't really call it the red pill So I think it I think it lends an incredible credence and credibility to the red pill movement Yeah, I should also I should also add that uh, christian mcqueen is going to be there. He's not going to be Are you kidding? I know he's going to be doing I've never met him before but yeah And then uh, also, uh, uh, George Bruno is going to be there too, but he's George Bruno Drew bae uh techs will be there There'll be a lot of guys in the audience who are speakers former speakers or on that level. So it's going to be badass Hey, christian mcqueen's a famous guy too. I finally get to see what's underneath that fucking hat Wait, what's what's with the hat? I'm not following her. No rollo doesn't have he doesn't have a head actually that the hat is the head Oh, he always wears glasses or that. Yeah Go back Yeah Yep All right guys Let's wrap up. I appreciate all of you guys coming on today, especially you techs From now on new to the show. I look forward to meeting you in a few months here in Orlando. We'll see you soon Yep, um Guys, everybody watching live check out the youtube description for links to each person's twitter account and their website stuff like that Uh, much appreciate you check out their stuff by the book support. They're doing on patreon, you know, everything like that Appreciate everyone tuning in live for that you For those of you who watch the recording, thanks for that as well Make sure you hit the like button subscribe to our channel if you haven't yet and check us out on itunes by going to Google google and typing in 21 radio itunes pull it right up We're getting more of the show is actually uploaded there, uh, right after it's done within a few hours So you can tune in live there's or after the fact there's well for the recording Also, we've sold over half of the tickets this year already in a few weeks to the 21 convention 2018 Where you can meet all these speakers live that we're just on the show today as well as like 20 more on top of that If you don't have a ticket yet, you should should get it right now at the 21 convention dot org That's dot or g a link to get tickets is also at the top of the video description and there'll probably be a card as well at the top right of this video Thanks, i'm going to sign out you guys can stand the call privately after we're done everyone else adios