 Hello everybody hoping you can hear me. Hello hello. How is everyone today? Welcome to my first official Lovecast. Hello everyone in the chat. I see you all in there. Do a quick refresh here. Make sure you are able to hear me. Please let me know before we get started. Hi Morgan. I guess you guys are able to hear me. Okay okay awesome. Alright let's get started. Let's get started. Welcome everyone. Again this is my official first Lovecast podcast livestream. We are going to be discussing today the avoidant lover your avoidant the avoidant attachment style. Okay this is something a lot of you I posted a poll to see what you wanted to talk about today and a lot of people said mostly relationships. So I thought okay let's take a look at the avoidant attachment. So there is a book called Attached. The new science of adult attachment how it can help you find and keep love and it's by Mir Levine and Rachel Heller. So there are three attachment styles. Basic attachment styles that they have discovered in relationships. Those three are the avoidant attachment style, the anxious attachment style, and then the secure attachment style. So I thought we would start tonight with the avoidant attachment style because I feel like a lot of you are probably or have experienced the avoidant attachment lover. The avoidant lover. So we'll take a couple of excerpts out of the book to talk a little bit about this. I know some of you are already aware of it and some of you have probably never heard of it or you haven't haven't gone in deep. So we'll address that a little bit here and just remember before we get started I'm going to do the podcasts every Monday Wednesday and Friday 7 p.m. Eastern 6th Central 5 Mountain 4 Pacific and then I will make an attempt to also do them on Saturdays at noon okay. So tonight we're going to talk about the avoidant and then Wednesday we will talk about the anxious attachment style and then Friday we'll talk about the secure attachment style and how each of these look how they play out. They can also give you some insight into if maybe this is a style that you have or that you a dynamic that you have felt and or if it's someone that you are connected to like a partner okay. Yes there are different types of avoidant as well as like fearful anxious dismissive all that but we're just going to keep it real simple with this tonight's podcast and I'll go for an hour and then I'm going to leave the chat up and live stream for a while so you guys can you know chat amongst yourselves and what have you okay. So let's see how we're going to get into this. So there's a lot of stories in this book and I don't know if you've come across this book before but there are some deactivating strategies that an avoidant will use okay in relationships in order to it's kind of like a runner trace runner chaser energy from what I've gathered the closer that you try to get the further that the avoidant will try to run and it does tend to create a dynamic in the relationship even if you come into the relationship securely attached it can turn into if you get involved with an avoidant the avoidant will run and that can create anxiety within you and that can cause you to chase after an avoidant who then runs even further and generally they tell you that when that's a dynamic that's playing out the best way to deal with that situation is to stop chasing and to retreat so some common deactivating strategies for an avoidant is where they will say or think to themselves that they're not ready to commit but they will stay together with their partner nonetheless sometimes for years. Another deactivating strategy that avoidant will use is they will focus on small imperfections in you like the way you talk dress the way you eat or anything anything else and allow that to get in the way of your romantic feelings. Okay now some of you might relate to some of this yourself and some of you might be seeing this in a partner. Another common deactivating strategy then avoidant will do is they will pine after an X which is called like the Phantom X. The fourth thing that they will do is they will flirt with other people. It's a hurtful way to introduce insecurity into the relationship. Another thing they will do also is they won't say I love you but at the same time they will imply that they have feelings towards you but they won't typically tell you that they love you or they will kind of round about in the way in a way tell you that they love you but maybe not really be direct with it there might be indirect with it. The other thing that they'll do is they will pull away when things are going well like not calling for several days or not calling for several days after an intimate connection that you've had right. So these are all deactivating strategies. Another thing that they will do which I find this interesting is they will tend to form relationships with an impossible future. So for instance for example like if you are married or if generally like if you are already in some type of situation that would cause an extreme obstacle or block them knowing that there would be no way free to overcome whatever this obstacle is they will intentionally form that relationship with you because they it's almost as if they know that it can't go anywhere okay which can tend to get you stuck in a lot of ways. They have a tendency to check out mentally when talking when you're you're both communicating and you might notice at times when you're having a conversation with your person and then they just check out and you're like did you hear me or did you are you listening to me or am I getting through hello McFly anything going on. So there's a tendency to check out mentally. They will also keep things secret or leave things foggy in order to maintain their feeling of independence. They will also tend to avoid physical closeness. For example not wanting to share the same bed not wanting to be physically intimate maybe walking several strides ahead of you. They find a way to put distance or create distance. If you are busy with something like up to your neck and work you may find that's when they're calling you because you are unable to really answer the phone. They'll create distance by tending to stay involved with you mostly through texting or through apps or they will tend to if they don't call you they'll generally give some kind of reason like their phone broke or they lost your number or they'll talk on the phone with you for a little while and then all of a sudden they suddenly have another phone call coming in and this scene you may notice this this happens or they have a set time period for the length of the call that they are willing to have with you. So it's almost as if they will have a tendency or a set time just to speak with you. In other words they'll give you just minimal amount of time to stay connected but then they're busy or they've got something to do or they're very busy and they'll say they'll call you back. Those are some of these are deactivating strategies that and I'm sure there's more and if you if there's others that you might think or you know about or you've experienced feel free to leave them in the chat or in the comments. These deactivating strategies are basically like a protective protective mode okay and they have a tendency to do this because there's a fear of getting too close and then being abandoned and it really never has anything to do with you unless there has been a dynamic in the relationship where there has been closeness and then something may have happened where they may not feel safe and then when they feel like it's safe to open up then something happens where they don't feel safe and then they they go back and forth. So you're you may feel at times like you're on a roller coaster in this relationship or in connections with with people like this. So to get into a little bit more there's a there's a thing here called the Phantom X okay. This is a phenomenon where your person has an attachment still to an ex whom they or may have been abandoned by that they're every person that they get involved with they attach that ex's qualities to you in in some way. I don't know if you've experienced this or not. So what I'm trying to get out here the Phantom X kind of thing is is a difficult thing because some of you may not even know about this or you may not know about an ex which can cause you to be really confused about the relationship and if you do know that there is an ex but you find out that your person still kind of feels like they're keep trying to recreate the relationship with that ex through other romantic relationships or in a relationship with you that's when you you might actually think it has something to do with you but it really doesn't. This book talks a lot about the person who actually is dealing with this issue okay. It's interesting because avoidant attachment styles are also well Joanne not see here's the thing about narcissism okay like a fully diagnosed narcissist it's a very rare thing for that to actually happen but that's something that's more done by like a psychiatrist or a psychologist you know everybody has avoidant or anxious attachment traits in one way or another and it doesn't necessarily make that person a narcissist so it's better to look more at the character traits of a person to try to understand it there's nothing you can do to fix an avoidant that's something that if you're involved in a relationship with them that's something that if they're not aware of it's it's helpful to make them aware of that but you you cannot the more love that you try to give an avoidant and the more security you try to give it it kind of actually makes them push away even more and that doesn't that actually would just cause more problems usually when you're involved with a person who is suffering from an avoidant attachment style the best thing that you can do is to stop chasing but if you are in if you have an anxious attachment style which we'll get into on Wednesday your anxious your which is avoidant and anxious are very insecure attachment styles so if you're anxious and you're involved with an avoidant you have to actually heal from your anxious attachment where you also have a fear of abandonment so that's the one thing that both styles have in common the anxious fears being abandoned the avoidant fears being abandoned so the anxious will push further and grab on even tighter to not be abandoned and the avoidant will just not get too deep so as to not be abandoned to understand they have the same fear but both of them approach it very differently one doesn't and one does heavily and that's why you tend to have the runner chaser dynamic because if you've ever noticed when you if you've had the anxious if you have the anxious type attachment style when you have pulled your energy back which is what we talk about in the readings when you pull your energy back you will tend to notice that your avoidant will then come back towards your way and some of you will stay in these long-term relationships with this type this type of relationship and realize at some point how come every time I pull my energy back this person comes back into my life they want to have love they want to be there and be a part of a great loving partnership but they have a great fear and so they will tiptoe back in and try to resume the relationship again and then you will if you haven't healed your anxious attachment then you will smother and do as much as you can to try to keep that person there and that scares them and then they run away and that is the dynamic and so it's imperative for both attachment styles to become securely attached okay but since today we're just talking about the avoidant attachment that I feel like we should focus on that the most let's see I'm gonna just pick out a couple of excerpts from okay so here's what this says right tapping into the secure mindset creating a secure base for your partner and especially for yourself one of the most important roles we play in our partner's lives is providing a secure base creating the conditions that enable our partners to pursue their interests and explore the world and confidence okay so the following secure behaviors look like this be available respond sensitively to their distress and this is for those of you who are in this relationship and want to stay in it you don't have to fix anyone it's not your job okay but if you you don't have to stay in it you could seek a more secure relationship partner you have every right to do that and and you would probably be best doing that for yourself because secure attached securely attached people can pretty much gel with anxious or avoidant or secure relationships and other people so respond sensitively to their distress allow them to be dependent on you when they feel the need check in with them from time to time provide comfort when things go wrong don't interfere provide behind-the-scenes support for their endeavors help in a way that leaves them with the initiative in the feeling of power allow them to do their own thing without trying to take over the situation micromanager undermine their confidence and abilities and encourage providing encouragement and be accepting of their learning and personal growth goals boost their self-esteem I know a lot of you are kind of like I am not doing that well that's fine you're not obligated to fix your relationship by yourself but I feel like it's really important for you to understand first what type of relationship you are okay and for you it's important to spot smoking guns very early on and treat them as deal breakers okay effectively communicate your needs from day one do not wait until the end or till it's you know you're halfway through subscribe to the belief that there are many yes many potential partners who could make you happy never take blame for anyone's offensive behavior when someone acts inconsiderate or hurtful be secure and acknowledge that says a lot about the other person rather than you expect to be treated with respect dignity and love okay so the the anxious attachment I'm sorry the avoidant attachment they they tend to have as I said deactivating strategies in order to not get too close okay and you have to be discerning and recognizing that okay avoidant attachment style in people tend to be fascinating those types of people because they are the loners of the world they are the people who say I don't need anyone or they're in relationships but they're not deeply connected they don't really make very strong bonds with the other person okay but there's something about them especially to an anxiously secure it an anxiously insecure attached person there's almost this gee I wish I could be like that gee I wish I could not get so deep into things gee I wish I could not be so not overthink about everything and not worry about losing somebody you know there's a there's a little bit of a I don't want to say enviousness but there is kind of like you can learn a lot if you're anxiously attached from an avoidant about scaling back your energy and and not feeling so overwhelmed at times with people where if there's a codependency issue and things like that but I think it's really important for you to also know that avoidant attachment per someone with avoidant attachment style is not it's not a healthy relationship okay it has a it has a tendency to be very damaging to relationships okay now there is a part that talks about and I just want to shift I will say and if I didn't say this yet if you didn't hear me say this avoidance and anxious attached styles tend to find each other often often they are the most common type of a relationship out there okay and it's it's a little it's a little disheartening to think about it but how many times do we have this runner chaser phenomenon happen all the time it's always that you know you may even have experienced where you start dating somebody and things are going really well and then they just drop off the face of the earth or they're just complete they're just gone or things are going well and you're communicating a lot and you're spending a lot of time with each other and and it feels like things are progressing and then they're gone or they just start pulling away or they start pulling out and then what happens is you will start calling more or you're strong you want to get answers you you want to try to find out but this person is disconnected in some way and so then they start kind of giving you one word answers and you're like now questioning yourself did I say something wrong what did I do now you now you're looking at yourself and you're trying to figure out how you can recover this you know and some have even gone to great lengths where they will like change their hairstyle they will do something different with their physique they will some will even start adapting to these behaviors themselves and start stifling themselves and say oh well maybe I've talked too much or maybe I should share my emotions you know and it actually can have a very depleting effect on your psyche and your soul when you're involved in a relationship like this and especially if you identify yourself as having an anxious attachment so the goal here is for you when you're involved with someone who has an avoidant style the goal is for you to step back pull your energy back and not blame yourself you don't have to dim your light so that someone else can shine the goal for you is to look inward and and become or remain secure within yourself okay because that's an energy of being centered when you are centered then you are able to make decisions coming from a well-balanced place if you're anxious you're on the outskirts of yourself and you're grasping at straws maybe trying to make a relationship work or trying to hang on to something you know so it's a struggle it's really a struggle I'm trying to see yes Tracy he comes back like gangbusters and within a week slowly starts again yes so the avoidant partners very much they want love and they want that connection just as much as the anxious partners do just as much as anybody does and this and the thing about it like I said is that there's this there's a strong fear of abandonment it's the goal is not to change the other person the goal is to remain centered yourself so you will find that you've felt like you've become a revolving door for your partner where they're in and out of the house in and out of the house you know they're they're here one minute and then they're gone and then they're here what in the next minute and then they're gone rather than you leaving the house through the revolving door chasing them down to drag them back in you just stay where you are you know and then at that point if this person still keeps coming in and out then you have to get yourself in a position to say you know I'm sensing here that you are in and out a lot and I feel like maybe it's a struggle for you to get close or you have a fear of that I'm not going to chase you down I'm not going to force you but I want you to know that at some point you're going to have to face yourself I at some point will have to lock the door because I'm standing here in us trying to be as safe and as secure as I can you know I feel generally that when you get yourself into a more safer position where you're not you're it's like a calm safe space like the temperance you're balanced and you're in harmony with with yourself that actually can cause your avoidant to realize that you're not going to push them into opening up you're not going to push them into any demands that you have but you also have to ask yourself this one question am I getting my needs met is this person who has an avoidant attachment style able to meet my needs right is this enough for someone to just come in and out of your life that's definitely a question you have to start asking yourself okay let me see what else I can find here that we can talk about you know it's interesting and I implore you to take a look at the book it's right there on the screen that you can read about there's a little test in here there's some tests that you can take as well to find out if what your attachment style is I would bet most of you probably have anxious attachment style let me look at yours your questions here so technically the avoidant creates the situation ship friend zone type scenario wanting love but scared of it that's exactly it a lot of those friends with benefits relationships that are initially created are usually anxious attachment people don't create them anxious attachments want to get married in three days friends with benefits relationships are generally created by avoidance or I wouldn't say so much dismissives maybe somewhat in there but I feel like the dismissive avoidant is a little harsher because they're a bit more brutal but yes that's that's basically what it is and that's why I always feel like if you if you have an avoidant attachment style yourself you very well could probably handle a friends with benefits okay and sometimes you might ask yourself how are some people able to do that well it's generally because of that they don't get deeply involved they're able to do that the avoidant the word avoidant for them is just synonymous with protection protective mode right I'd say cats have avoidant attachment dogs have an anxious attachment cats have avoidant attachment if we could look at it in any other kind of way that would be the perfect way cats are very independent cats are very like their loners they do their own thing they come in when they want your love and then they go peacefully off to do their own thing they're very calm dogs are like no I gotta be up your ass up your ass up your ass I want your love I want you love that's the anxious I stopped chasing him a long time ago you're currently in separation 900 miles apart I'm taking this alone time to go deep within and figure out if I still want a relationship with him okay I think the one thing to leave out in the relationship is any type of criticism criticizing I'm trying to find other little things here that I can talk to you about when it comes to the avoidant you know it's like I said avoidants just really have a great fear of abandonment they have a fear of getting close and so basically I feel like they may have experienced closeness in a very crucial part of their life and that closeness with a particular could have been a caregiver or maybe just the world came crashing down on them and they retreat they retreat it's kind of like someone has been through a war zone that kind of energy so here I'll give you a couple of things that you may be able to identify that your person or if you meet someone new that might have an avoidant attachment style here's a few other things and also once you hear this stuff and you see that book you might be very confused if you're in a relationship with an avoidant and you might be taking things very personally and and it's not to say that maybe you have or you haven't heard the other person I mean we are human and there is a possibility that maybe there were some fights or some things that were said but I feel like if you recognize some of these signs in someone that you're currently connecting with or a spouse or a lover dive a little bit deeper to try to see what exactly is going on in that connection so here's some of the signs avoidance will always send mixed signals secure people will be reliable and consistent okay avoidance value their independence greatly secure people make decisions together an avoidant devalues devalues you or their previous partners okay and devalue does not necessarily mean verbal abuse devalue could just be anything that leaves you with a feeling of you're not a priority okay a secure person will be flexible in their view of relationships okay an avoidant uses distancing strategies whether emotional or physical and a secure person communicates relationship issues well so with an avoidant using distancing strategies emotional or physical could be if there's an issue that needs to be discussed or talked about or sorted out an avoidant will run from the company but they view it as confident confrontation they view it as they're in trouble or they take it all upon themselves that let's just keep everything surface and sweet and then we won't have these problems but they don't and it's kind of like they live in a child's mind they don't really understand that relationships require addressing issues together whatever kind of issues there are so an avoidant will have a tendency to say oh I can't talk right now talk about it later and then kick the can forward over and over again so as to avoid talking about it or they will just they'll create some kind of strategy to distance themselves from you know what whatever the issue might be an avoidant will emphasize boundaries in the relationship okay so an example of that is where an avoidant will say I have this big work project and I absolutely cannot bend on that I can't I may not even be able to call you or that's just one example there they will emphasize how important their boundaries are and where the an a secure a secure person in a relationship can reach a compromise during arguments or situations that are going on okay in other words they can give you feedback they could say you know okay we have something we need to sort out and they will reach some type of a compromise they will put some kind of effort in to over to deal with an argument or recognize that this is imperative to the relationship being successful and that they will find a way where again an avoidant will emphasize real strongly that now they're not able to do that they have something else going on or we can talk about it later or they just kind of they do a lot of the putting off energy okay an avoidant has an unrealistically romantic view of how a relationship should be okay so they might have it in their head that it has to be their way and in their particular way and so that kind of is like having the emperor in the reverse that's kind of like a dictatorship in some way my way or the highway kind of thing they will dictate how the relationship will go so it was so that it will suit their needs they have no other way to be in the relationship with you unless there's an element of they can avoid and run away whenever they feel uncomfortable a secure person is not afraid of commitment or dependency okay an avoidant is a mistrustful they fear being taken advantage of by their partner and a secure person doesn't view relationships as hard work okay the avoidant does definitely they have a they have a strong fear you know of opening up and then someone taking advantage of them or being abandoned they don't trust they really have artistic because they don't trust themselves okay the avoidant has a rigid view of relationships and uncompromising rules and again that's that emperor in the reverse that's that dictatorship okay where the secure person closeness creates further closeness okay so the avoidant has to have things particular way and they refuse to budge on their their views and how they want they think or they want it to be and it's very discouraging because you oftentimes could feel as if you are working for this person you know it's it's they've they set the rules they set the ground rules and they they refuse to bend on them again it's it's a protective mode okay to create distance from becoming close okay the avoidant during a disagreement needs to get away or explodes and I think we talked about that right introduce in I don't know how this relates but the secure person will introduce friends and family early on early but an avoidant so during a disagreement if there's a disagreement like I said there's a then there's a confrontation and they got a run they run they run or they make their excuses or they turn around and they blow it up in your face and create this massive argument so as to derail you and then they use that as an excuse why they have to get away because they can't deal with this arguing when they created the argument in the first place okay that's a deactivating strategy from having to sit down and create a bond to resolve issues okay the other thing an avoidant do they never make their intentions clear at the start they never I'm gonna repeat that they never make their intentions clear from the start and I know a lot of you will be calling me up for a reading and the first thing you want to know is and I see it in my chat too on Sundays what does this person want from me what do they want do they love me why are they here okay that's because they are giving you mixed signals and they don't make their intentions clear where a secure person will naturally express their feeling for you a secure person will naturally tell you right in the beginning what they intend why they're with you why they chose you why they want to keep moving forward okay so when you are in a relationship with someone whether it's in the beginning or after some time because you could have your avoidant partner say to you that they want to be with you and that they're interested in this but they may be very vague as well a lot of times an avoidant will say to you well you know we'll see where it goes like that is such an avoidant statement if ever there was one when there is a connection that's being made and someone says we'll see where it goes they're basically telling you I'm giving myself an out in case I start feeling like you you're getting too close and then I get a run you know a secure person is it's not about it's not getting in a relationship to see how you're gonna be more so they're sure of what they want there's a purpose for dating there's a purpose for being with you and someone who's secure will meet you and say well I'd like to get to know you and then at some point they'll express to you exactly they won't leave it open-ended and say we'll see where it goes you know that's too vague a secure person will come to a place where they say you know I really like you and either one I would like to go further and explore more with you because my intention here is that I would like to be eventually in a committed relationship or further than that and or I'm not really feeling this way and I'm going to move I'm going to sever the relationship but I really enjoyed your company and I'm gonna move on you're not really it's not what I'm looking for you'll get an answer you'll never have to be in a position where you have to question and an avoidant will always leave you in a position where you are questioning and constantly having to ask where is this relationship going what are we doing here if you get yourself in a position where you have to ask your partner what are we it's because they're not making it clear and they have no intention to do so okay you could you lose so many years with someone like this be very indirect and very vague an avoidant partner has difficulty talking here we go about what's going on between you which is why you're asking what are we what's going on with us are we friends are we lovers are we friends with benefits are we in a relationship I'm confused they leave you lost on the highway with no signs how to get off or where to you know where to go a secure partner does not play games okay this does not mean and I have to say like I'm not a doctor your partner this person could be a narcissist they could or they might not be they might just have these avoidant traits you know there's no sense in spending all of your time trying to diagnose someone fully the point of this podcast here is for you to just recognize some of these signs but at the end of the day whether you're involved in a relationship with a narcissist or an avoidant or an anxiously attached or a securely attached the question is what's going on with you okay because it does not really matter what your person is a hundred percent if you are not feeling well if you are feeling abandoned if you are feeling insecure in the relationship you have to tend to your needs first if your needs are not your partner is not able to meet you halfway with your needs to be met okay so the golden rules are this no I don't know that they're incapable to love they could be on their own incapable to love but avoidance and anxious type people wouldn't hurt to have a little bit of therapy there's plenty of counselors out there or spiritual guidance to help with these things you know I can tell you one thing you can't fix this person you know because even if you give them space that's exactly what they want is the space and giving it to them would be good but what they do with that space is really what matters and if you give them space don't gaslight yourself and think well I've given them plenty of space and now they're coming back so maybe this time things will be different no if they haven't done the work to heal that you know about then it won't be different you'll just repeat the cycle again and it's the same with the anxious attachment style when you pull back it's really important that you do a bit of self-discovery I think it's possible I think anything's possible you know with spiritual healing scarlet I do but the golden rules here for you is in this relationship number one determine whether this person you're with seeks intimacy and closeness okay the second is assess how preoccupied or distant they are with the relationship and how sensitive they are to rejection or how sensitive or insensitive they are to the space you give okay don't rely on just one symptom of the avoidant look at various signs look at these signs okay assess your partner's reaction to effective communication so when you want to have an effective conversation or to sort out some issues does this person look like a deer in the headlights and then they run make their excuses or disappear is this you know something that goes on with them listen and look for what your partner is not saying or doing that's what you want to pay attention to don't look at what they are saying don't look at what they are doing you want to look in order to assess what their style is look and see what they are not doing and what they are not saying because that's how you can identify an avoidant is there a reason why after being discarded they try to tip toe back in guilt regrets well because they don't want to lose you you know but they do need a tremendous amount of space tremendous amount of space I don't know that it would be guilt or regret it really depends on the way after the it depends on the breakup so if you were the one to tell your avoidant partner that you're breaking up and you don't want to pursue the relationship anymore they would probably be relieved most likely but if you ghost them and leave them no way to contact you I wouldn't think that they would be relieved I think that they would be scrambling and trying to figure out how to get you back just to get you back in place there is such a thing as easy simple love and that comes with learning to be more secure within yourself right and that's why we talk about the self-love and the self-healing and so in this book here called attached there is a section on being a secure partner and so I can give you a couple of things what a secure partner looks like secure partners first of all the one thing is you'll feel safe safe with when you feel safe within yourself you trust yourself and you feel secure and a partner that you're with that is also secure you will feel safe and secure in the relationship not because they come in to rescue you but because they come insecure and and safe as who they are themselves right so it's just a default so a secure person is reliable and consistent okay a secure person makes decisions with their partner a secure person is has a flexible view of relationships versus well just has a flexible view it's kind of like they know that they're they're aware that a relationship could not work and they're aware that a relationship could so if they're aware that the relationship could work they don't try to distance themselves from it and if they're aware that it couldn't work they don't feel unhappy if they're not in it anymore they're very secure a secure person communicates relationship issues well they're not stifled they feel confident and secure and expressing how they feel and what they think a secure person is not afraid of commitment or dependency they don't review relationships as hard work at all they understand that closeness creates further closeness they introduce family and friends early on they naturally express feeling for you and they don't play games so they're very above board okay no a secure partner well secure partner can be okay on their own and they can also be okay in a relationship absolutely you know I mean of course a secure person has feelings and if a relationship is to end of course it would be sad but they wouldn't be grasping as straws to try to get it back they would accept it a lot quicker that kind of thing you know a secure person with it who's securing themselves has that confidence and says basically if a relationship ends everybody has grief everybody has a period of turmoil when you know love is lost but they know that they a secure person knows that they have themselves and they know that no matter at the end of the day no matter what happens they'll be okay they've had some kind of self soothing or are good security in their life at some point but I also believe that secure partners can be in a relationship with an anxious or an avoidant and they can it can make them ill you know and a secure person will be more inclined to see that right away because they're secure and they will tend to deal with the issues right like a lot quicker they won't they won't run away and they won't grasp at the relationship they'll try to talk about it but if they feel their partner is dismissing them or if their partner is too insecure without them then they will have a tendency to say you know I don't think it's gonna work and they'll wind up you know moving on so yeah it's a very interesting thing I don't you know I know like sometimes my cards talk about the narcissism thing I really try not to get too deep into that because I feel like that work it's thrown around so nonchalantly anymore I mean you might as well just say jerk you know but I'd rather say maybe spiritually disordered I think that might be the better but I can't the cards already chosen so so when someone's secure they'll understand and do what's best for their partner when someone's anxious well we're not gonna get into the anxious I'll get into the avoidant if someone's avoidant they'll feel very uncomfortable with increased intimacy and they will respond in one of following ways they'll either say you're too sensitive you're too demanding or you're too needy they'll say I don't want to talk about it they'll tell you to stop analyzing everything they'll say what do you want for me I didn't do anything wrong they will consider your needs on a certain matter only to disregard them again very soon after or they'll say gee my gosh I already said I was sorry so I feel like those might be some of the things that you could have dealt with or could be dealing with in a relationship with an avoidant there's just an extreme anxiety about getting close and the fearful or the anxious attachment has extreme anxiety about having distance and that's why the energy the runner-chaser that's how that dynamic develops so what do you do you stop chasing if you're anxious and you stop running if you're avoidant and you both meet halfway in the middle but you stay steady you both become secure so if you were if you were to end your relationship with your partner because whether you want to call them anxious or avoidant if you were to end the relationship with them then you would just say I'm ending the relationship because I don't feel safe and your partner could say to you well how can I make you feel safe and you you would say to them become a safe person and then the rest you know they have to discover on their own you know but you have to take care of yourself at the end of the day okay you have to do you have to have your you have to get your needs met in a way that's going to make you feel strong and secure within yourself because like I said you also could be secure going into relationship and find yourself becoming insecure because of the relationship because of your partner's attachment style you won't feel that way with a secure securely attached person okay you'll feel safe with them you know and I know you know if you can think of some of the people in your life or throughout your life that you had that good safe sense about them you know the ones who are secure and the ones who are not you could also probably think of people in your life who are very avoidant some of you could have been your father's where your father's were very avoidant they didn't come home a lot they're always working they spent very little time or minimal time with you for some it could even be your mother's you know dependency is not a bad thing dependency is necessary in a healthy relationship to being able to depend on each other in it in a deep relationship is very important and when you become a secure person if you have children they become secure or even if they're grown when you start displaying secure behaviors in your life within yourself people feel like they can trust you they want to be around you you're consistent they know what to predict sure crazy can be attractive but not for long term not for long term so you have to get to a place now where you have to ask yourself okay what is this is my it's my partner avoidant I would not get down deep into oh your partner is avoidant because of you okay don't go down that road your your partner understand most likely came into the relationship this way long before you ever knew them okay and usually to create such a strong dynamic of being avoidant that tends to come from possibly childhood or some very deep seated issue that caused the avoidant at one time were able to trust and then you know the this would be a pretty profound type of thing for that to happen but it's a deep rooted dynamic but it has it can be healed it definitely can be healed you know there's plenty of counselors or therapists or people out there who know a lot about this and they it's really just about learning to trust yourself you know and if they are willing to take the steps you know it's not an overnight thing but I I believe that things can be healed okay so if you guys want to ask me some questions about what we were talking about we could do that for a little bit and then afterwards I'm just gonna leave the stream run if you guys just want to chitchat amongst yourselves we can do that oh I forgot I had a cup of coffee here Tracy says he is very scared he's only had himself to depend on he's afraid if he lets me in and I abandon him it will ruin him and you know it's funny about that Tracy I mean you know it takes time for someone who's an avoidant to be able to trust because they have very deep rooted mist issues with trusting and if you were to stick it out in somewhere another become secure he could warm up a bit more but at times during the process he will retreat a lot it takes a really long time and you guys like everybody situations different you kind of have to ask yourself how much time do I have it's not even I mean yes it's about love and if you love that person of course but it doesn't hurt to try to redirect your person if this is someone that you know this is your person for life it doesn't hurt to redirect them gently into maybe looking into this themselves and getting some help but if they're not willing to even make any kind of effort even if they got picked up a book anything then you really have to get yourself to a position where you have to ask yourself is this gonna work for me right yes it's very slow process Darren says Kelly difference between dependent and codependent okay it's interesting you ask that question Darren because in this book attached there is a section here it's called the code of the myth of codependency here it is let me see what it says here so codependent means being too enmeshed with the other person and and you must learn to set better boundaries says if you develop a strong dependency on your partner you're a deficient in some way and are advised to work on yourself to become more differentiated and develop a greater sense of self the worst possible scenario is that you'll end up needing your partner which is equated with addiction to him or her an addiction we all know is a dangerous prospect and while the teachings of codependency movement remain immensely helpful in dealing with family members who suffer from substance abuse as was the initial intention they can be misleading and even damaging when applied indiscriminately to all relationships so it seems to me like maybe codependency has more to do with a person that has an outside an external addiction that you are trying that you're competing with but I feel like if you are in a relationship with someone I don't feel like unless there's that dynamic playing out dependency is necessary for a relationship to work because it's trust building and it's a bond where we rely on each other Pablo says I need to rewind and listen again this will be my workout that's awesome Pablo okay let's see thank you Joanne and Max says can an anxious attachment and get so damaged by an avoid an attachment that they become avoid themselves yes absolutely and I said that in the very beginning that an anxious attachment will often reach out to try to salvage and bring the dismissive I'm sorry the avoidant inward to them and the more that the avoidant runs from that the more the anxious attached person will then say to themselves they'll begin to stifle their natural well it's it's hyper attachment for the anxiously attached but then they will tend to resort back to stifling and not reaching out at all because of the fear and not expressing themselves and then they become the avoidant themselves that's why it's really important if you identify as an anxious attachment style to become secure within self and that will take you know depending on the level of the depth of your anxiety you know that will that could take a deep deep therapy or it could take maybe just a few things for you to understand and just start implementing changes you are so welcome be Mack the campus I've healed and love myself today that I'm learning to put up healthy boundaries that's good fear definitely can hold people hostage TJ so true yeah it's really it's kind of like a child with a parent when a child needs to depend on the parent in order to understand that it's safe to go out there into the world that's what we do for each other and partner love partnerships we're there we have each other's back we provide a soft place for our partner to land that says hey I got you you know I always think about it's crazy my favorite movie of all time right was Jerry Maguire don't ask me why I just I don't even know it's such an old movie and I watch it every Christmas I don't know why I just do so there's a scene in and I'm sure you guys are familiar with this there's a scene in Jerry Maguire the Cuba Gooding junior plays a football player and his wife is in there in the scene throughout the movie and the way they are with each other the way they have each other's back supporting one another being there standing up for each other you know that's creating intimacy in a deep deep bond and that can be very scary because it almost seems like it's so far off in another world but finding finding a healthy partner you will attract a healthy partner a secure partner when you become secure most anxiously attached people tend to attract avoidance and most avoidance tend to go for anxiously attached types it's crazy but because of the dynamic that roller coaster you know so it's a very interesting dynamic we want to kill the runner chaser thing you know yeah it does dependency is very healthy dependency is very good we like dependency we like being able to come home or talk to our partner and tell them and know that we can depend on them to listen and maybe to give positive feedback we like to be able to have someone in our lives that we can come home to that we feel safe and then we can just be ourselves be our true authentic selves where there's no filters and there's no eggshells you know dependency is a wonderful beautiful thing we don't want to be dependent on alcohol or drugs or sex or any of that stuff we want to be dependent on healthy relationships but healthy relationships have to also be created and it starts with two secure people right so a lot of tidbits in there about the avoidant and if you are able to get yourself to understanding what a securely attached person looks like and striving to get yourself to be more securely attached especially if you were in a relationship with someone who was unhealthy whether they were anxiously attached or avoidant type you still at the end of the day want to get yourself securely attached within self because a lot of you you know that probably have dealt with some traumatic things in your life as well that need a lot of healing so yeah that is that's what everyone's looking for if he's cheating on me with someone will he be the same way with her do you mean if someone's if your partner is cheating on you with another person will he cheat on them and you're welcome Vlad I mean I feel like cheating is could also be a deactivating strategy you know it really though there's so many variables and dynamics that come with that it really just depends but I can tell you that I'm always telling him be authentic with yourself to the truth about what it is you want well you know I believe that the best way to deal with people is by showing them who you are and not telling them who they should be right because we are not even though Virgos especially tend to be the healers of the zodiac and we tend to go with the whole let me fix it show what you're trying to sell rather than tell people what you're trying to sell because I feel like and even in your relationships be an example of what you're trying to tell other people and people will believe you they'll be more convinced than and even your partner will be convinced that you are what you are trying to get them to be they need to see it you know so when especially women will have a tendency to write those long letters and tell their partner how they need to fix this and what they need to do and you know telling them how they need to change and this is how their life could be better and all that and I mean not necessarily women I guess men do it too but I can only speak for women because I'm a woman but I think that that is really you might as well just be giving them a self-help book you know and a self-help book does shit for anybody who is not willing to look at themselves so just be be the example that you want to set show yourself show people show your partner show your lovers be secure telling other people that they need to be more secure I mean I think if somebody asks or if you really care about someone and you want to help offering gentle guidance is always good in a relationship of course but if you feel like you're dealing with someone who's like a deer in the headlights and constantly run away running away the more letters you write the more love you give the more gifts appreciation all that overload is just going to keep them a distance you need to regroup resettle back within yourself and you can love your person but you need to be loving yourself first you got to keep yourself priority no matter what type of relationship you're in will you have will you have the same detached energy he gives to his person if if he is Miss Allen if he is an avoidant if he has a very strong avoidant attachment he will continue that in all of his relationships unless there's some type of intervention or somebody says something to him or it's or it's shown to him or he comes to terms with himself how he's living his life otherwise he will continue to do that with the next one and the one after that and if you know him you will see that he's in and out of relationships in his life or he has a lot of surface relationships or he has a lot of you know friends with benefits kind of situations where he's short term relationships or he dates around he might even have like a serial dating kind of thing going on you know that's why I say there's a there's a tremendous amount of avoidant attachment style types on those dating apps and if you are an anxious attachment style type probably not good for you to be on there because it's just going to increase your anxiety even more and more when you get connected most people who want to have long-distance relationships to start off that way that's a deactivating strategy and I talked about that and you'll have to go back and listen again most people who have avoidant they get on those dating apps they start off long distance are generally going to keep it that way exception to the rule there are some securely attached people on there but most most of them on there are in that okay well we're long distance they've already they've already started the relationship by creating distance so don't go down that road with these visions of grandeur that this person you know keep it real within yourself and ask yourself if you meet someone who's very very far away from you ask yourself why are they seeking relationships with people who are thousands and are like it on a completely different continent that's a red flag where are the dating sites for you find mentally healthy I don't know I mean I don't I'm not necessarily saying dating sites have no mentally healthy people I feel like you have to be really discerning you know and and you got to really like ask a lot of questions and you know check things out I was with an avoidant for a long time and I had no idea this person was avoiding and it took me a long time to learn and when I finally learned I was like oh I see it really isn't anything to do with me the relationship never got better but it really doesn't have anything to do with me it's the way that person came into the relationship from the beginning I have there's nothing I can't fix childhood trauma issues or things like that or however somebody's parents were you know and at that point I was like I gotta let this go because it's just not gonna happen what are some things you can do when you know you're anxious to pull back so your avoiding person comes forward what are some things you can do when you know you're anxious to pull back so you are avoiding person I'm not really sure I understand that question Tracy sorry maybe oh yeah other distancing strategies are also filters on photos the fear of being seen in a particular way you know are always wearing an extra I mean these are all psychological things but and I can't say for sure cuz I know you know I'm a woman I like to wear makeup but I think that excessive amount of makeup can bring people in but it also is it's kind of a passive aggressive thing it can bring people can draw people to you but it can also there are women out there I know that well they will go to sleep with caked on makeup and they will wake up and put more caked on makeup it won't take their makeup off generally for anybody they don't like to be seen without it and that's kind of a distancing every lot we all have insecurities you know and we all like I said you're not a narcissist if you're like a woman who doesn't want to get in a bikini you're creating a distance strategy there because you don't want anyone to see a specific thing because you don't feel like you don't want to be judged or if you you know have a cellulite or stretch marks or things like that you know it doesn't make you like an avoidant but the avoidant thing is like all across the board in the relationship you know it's not it's like truly just a running away it's a runner energy what can I do to pull back so my person comes forward it's very hard for me oh well there's a flaw in your sentence there Tracy because you're manipulating the situation what can I do basically what you're asking is obviously you're anxiously attached because a person who has anxious attachment so I would ask that particular question so what you're basically asking is what can I do to get my person to come forward so that's you doing something and that's what an anxiously attached person would do is to try to create a way to pull the person back towards them and so when we talk about the anxiously attached on Wednesday I'll explain a lot more about that because what you don't want to do is coerce or try to pull anyone towards you you want people to come towards you by their own will and naturally right and if it's very hard for you to be alone or to it's not to be alone you may feel like being without your partner's anxiety inducing and very alone and will cause you to feel alone that's that's just fear probably I guess yeah you're right Cal's like the best thing you can do is focus on becoming more secure within yourself if you feel like you are anxiously attached so there's plenty of videos on YouTube there's plenty of books there's plenty of articles on the internet on how to become a safe secure person and that basically is just all about healing that which made you anxiously attached right it's kind of like self soothing learning to self soothe the anxiously attached person needs to learn how to soothe themselves it's like when you're anxious or you're stressed you're having anxiety you know some people run to a pill or they run to a drink but it's most healthy if you can take control of your faculties and take control of your mind your mind's very powerful and it's not in charge of you you are in charge of it and if you can get yourself into a position to control the mind mind control to calm yourself that's self soothing that's self love the self healing I mean who's perfect right you may even some of you may even be anxiously attached and find yourself at times to be in an avoidant phase you know and exactly M. Kelly that's what it is it's shadow work you know and the last thing you want to do is avoid the rest of your life another person because how will you ever know if you've healed from your anxiety or your avoidance if you're never in a relationship again so you don't want to get yourself in a position where oh I I'm so anxious I can't be a relationship so now I'm just gonna avoid for the rest of my life you don't want to do that either you got to find that sweet spot and that balance put all the energy you give to him on yourself well I mean it's really just about getting yourself secure because the one thing the avoidant does not want is for you to abandon him in this particular case here they don't want to be abandoned which is probably why they keep coming back so it's not like I would say put most of your energy into yourself and still love that person in the way if you intend to stay with them to not over love but to attend to them tend to them the way you would a flower right when a flat when you have a flower growing you don't want to overwater your flowers or they will they will be gone and if you give them too little water or none then they will be gone see want to give them just the right amount but the majority of your focus is on you because once you finish watering your flowers you go back and do you what you need to do right setting up good boundaries yeah yeah do you guys feel like you're more interested in hearing about the avoidant or the anxious or the secure like where do you where do you lean the most are they aware they're like this or is this some type of illness they developed do they want to be this way I mean some could be aware of some people aren't aware you know especially if this is something that was developed in childhood it may just be the way they've lived their lives they may not be aware it might just be natural for them they're aware that closeness and vulnerability scares the heck out of them they're aware of their you know the avoidant feels anxiety and they also feel love it's just that that when they're when they get too close they get anxious and for the anxious when there's too much distance they get anxious right so they're not avoidance they're not stone cold robots by any stretch of the imagination they're very deep feelings they love very deeply they just fear the intimacy and the closeness some avoidance can be wonderful people just amazing people most they could be very kind and supportive and loving you know but they have a limit okay and Kelly wants to avoid the wants to understand the avoidant Tracy says he wouldn't probably I'm secure enough to avoid my anxious that's awesome both are equally interesting I agree could be a trauma response absolutely he's a wooden you're smart and have lived I have I sure have so yeah I feel like we've touched a lot and I think that if there's anything you could do for yourself going forward after knowing this is maybe do a little bit of reading about that or watch some videos there's plenty of videos out there because I feel like you know the end of the day it's really about you and how you feel and what you want in your life and what you need what's going to work for you and the more secure you become the more you're able to spot the anxious or the avoidant type of attachments and people right so there's nothing but education is power you know yeah so I think that's about it I actually was only going to talk for an hour but an hour and a half seems to be better so Wednesday I'm gonna leave this I'm gonna leave the stream running for you guys all right if you want to stay in here and chit chat and talk what do you think should I should I not I might leave it run maybe I'll leave it run for like a couple hours if you guys want to just continue your conversation with each other you're welcome Joanne but Wednesday we're gonna talk about the anxious and then on Friday we will talk about the securely attached and how that looks and what that looks like all right and then Saturday I'm going to do a podcast I intend to but I'm not that's kind of going to be fluid I'm not exactly sure I will lose he's anxious now he's called me two times in five minutes will keep calling me out my boundaries are up not answering oh yeah that yeah it see the dance gets played blue lotus sometimes there's you know the more you pull away from the avoidant then they become anxious to try to get the relationship back and then they get it back and you overgive or you give and then they pull away again it's you just have to stay very secure you cannot answer the phone because he's anxious because you're worried that he'll explode you have to just stay secure I'm probably gonna do something on my where I have my bookings for you guys to go more into depth maybe that might help you if you want to get some sessions with how to deal with the anxious and the avoidant style we'll see how that works out but so I so when I leave him will this make him worse not necessarily if you if you tell him you don't want to do the relationship anymore probably be okay with it if he's if he's an avoidant type he'll probably be alright with it I say okay take care I wish you all the best that will give him exactly what he wants if you express that now if you if you just disappear on him with no warning or nothing it could cause him to scramble and and get anxious and worried and tried to return and grab a hold of the relationship again but it could take a while a real long time right so you know generally remember anxious avoidance they want love but they're not as keen on being in relationships as the anxious it's not really something they need they want the love they want to be appreciated and loved but they're okay to be without it Cal you must be trouble for any guy they won't get away with much you all have them all figured out I know I'm too smart for I think I'm just too smart for anybody not necessarily because when when love walks in all logic and common sense tends to walk out doesn't it Tracy you know that's the wonderful thing about love that's what makes it so amazing and so great is when we lose our minds and our common sense and we just take that risk and go and have fun I mean if we're just too logical and cerebral in our relationships I mean boring you're welcome sweetheart I'm glad that I was able to do this I already know so much about toxic love I want to learn my healthy secure love should look like yeah we should focus on that we talk a lot about the toxicity in relationships don't you I do be Mack I do I was just thinking today if I could just have it I was married to a tech guy for like 10 years we were together like 12 years he was all tech tech at one time I did something on his computer he was like how did you look how did you know how to do that and I was like I learned it by watching you and I'm very techie myself but he yeah I need another one that's for sure someone that can like sit down and be like okay well this is how this works and this is how that works but anyway enough about me I enjoyed the chat yes we will I will be back on Wednesday 7 p.m. Eastern 6 5 and 4 all through the previous time zones all right you guys here in the U.S. so I'll put up the link there for the upcoming next one and we'll talk about the anxiously attached keep that in your mind schedule and Friday we'll talk about the securely attached and with that type of relationship looks like all right so I'm gonna leave the chat up for I guess another hour you guys can chitchat away and then I will see you at 10 30 this evening are in two hours for tonight's love rating okay so have an awesome awesome evening I will talk today greetings morning wherever you are and I will talk to you guys later all right take care bye