 Hello, welcome. Welcome back to clock talk. I'm crystal here and I am still in all calm and today we're going to be Connecting Hong Kong to the states through the concept of what it means to be Asian American Okay, well, so Asia-american. Let's just say that in Hawaii We have so many Asians there that it's really not even an issue In the West, you know also I grew up in the West and there's been mostly a lot of Asian Americans In fact, they were 45% in the West and on the East Coast a little bit less, but what happens in Hong Kong? We don't think about what does it mean to be Asian American in an Asian space when we're seen and I say we as in people who are Asian American are seen as a Strangely perpetual foreigner and yet connected through culture, but not quite so it's very very ambiguous So I've got my perfect guest today to talk about this in between states teetering between Asian and Asian-American and I have this just I don't know This is the no old friend. So we're gonna come way back and let me just introduce it She was a former TV presenter. Yes in Hong Kong, but I just learned that she was a former model in Hawaii wall She's a columnist. She's a writer. She's a comic, but she doesn't admit it She was a radio host charity founder voiceover artists all that great stuff and a mother of three So, all right, let's welcome Gloria. We'll welcome to think tech Hello So we are friends very yes, and let me just Premise that I know Gloria is usually like, you know, she you just took your vaccination So I'm just gonna say if there's any reason you feel any weird vibes from Gloria It's because she threw up all night, right and you do not look like you're sick at all So I'm just gonna give that to you Yeah, I have never been sick with a vaccination. I have no idea why this one hit me so hard, but anyway, I'm here Yay. Yay. And you know what? I'm just thinking like Just to kind of go start off tangent is this whole COVID thing brought about this really, you know In the States and anti-Asian discrimination, you know with Trump and the kung-fu and all that crap. So What does it mean to be discriminated against you know Because we have been living where you have been living in Asia for so long You know to take it into a different context of not maybe discrimination is not the word but feeling like an outsider Can you talk a little bit about how you first came to Hong Kong at a Y first? so I first came to Hong Kong as a Bit of a shopping spree come out here Hank for a bit and then I was shopping in one of these shopping areas and A woman came out to me and said would you like to make some money doing a commercial? So I said sure why not more shopping and then I just kind of snowballed from there and I kept saying to my parents I'm coming back. I'm coming back and I just kept getting more and more work and then from modeling it went to Being a television presenter and then from there I started to work as a colonists for the newspapers and then I had children and You just don't want to uproot your children and I also wanted them I thought this is a good opportunity for them not to be like me because I cannot speak Cantonese in Hong Kong Which is that a whole different story but yeah, no, no, that's part of the story. Let's talk about that So because language barriers, that's a big part of why we're judged, you know what I first came out here, too You know my my Chinese was a little I had a little mine was better than yours because my dad's from Hong Kong So I had a little better Okay, but still all right, but you're Mandarin speaking. So there's the difference You have the Chinese background, but it wasn't Cantonese. The point is for There's a name there's a term for us. They called this. I don't know. They told you that Jup singui jup sing meaning bamboo which is implying. It's like we look Chinese me outside But we're kind of empty and all on the inside. It's so derogatory But then they loved to use that term a jup singui, you know, I you don't know anything. Yeah, not you know So did you get that? When you first came out here they just even say that I didn't look Chinese and even now Especially if I wear a mask or something people will immediately speak to me in English They don't even bother speaking to me in Chinese. So I I didn't speak put on why I spoke Shanghainese at home, which does have no good in Hong Kong at all All and I was trying to learn to speak Cantonese and people get frustrated with me and just say oh fine Let's just speak English because they said not only did I have a very funny accent when I spoke Cantonese But it sounded also that I had a bit of a Shanghainese accent So was your Shanghainese accent almost like American-like Shanghainese too So it wasn't even like proper Shanghainese or was it proper Shanghainese at Hong Kong people didn't know about What is very interesting was I thought okay, I grew up speaking Shanghainese My grandmother didn't speak any English so I could speak Shanghainese to her and then I ended up Going to Shanghai and I started speaking and they all started laughing and they said you said like a really old Old old woman like a hundred year old woman I was like what and they said Because in Shanghai the slang goes very very very quickly and it moved and I just didn't know any of the slang So here I am saying stuff like money But now the word for money in Shanghainese is like a ticket like a train ticket And I didn't know any of that slang and so they said that the way that I pronounce things was almost like I don't know I guess you can compare it to Elizabeth and English or something So they how do you say I've got no money in Shanghai, isn't it? No, something like that. You don't say don't be anymore. So it's top y'all. Oh See, yeah, so wow, okay So it's like a very different and then they would look at you like and and then you would start speaking I would start speaking and then little by little you see the person's head kind of going It's because they didn't understand what I'm saying. So then people said oh, it's just easier to speak to you in English So I didn't have that opportunity to kind of improve my Chinese because people just got frustrated and just started speaking to me in English Okay, but back up to your parents. So were they first Generate you were first generation because your parents your mother is from Shanghai and where's your dad from? Can you get a little bit of context to how the diaspora affected who you are? So both of my parents this is an interesting story as well So both of them were born in Shanghai my father was in the British section My mother was in the American section. They kind of diverged so when when The Communist came my father was the oldest son So he was sent to Taiwan and he went to school in Taiwan My mother came across the border to Hong Kong, which is why she couldn't speak Cantonese My father couldn't speak it at all. So that's why I never really even heard it at home or or anything like that And then they met in New York on my mother was on that show to tell the truth I don't know what and you could find it on YouTube So some somebody been loading all the old episodes on to YouTube And so it's pretty amazing to be able to see your parents speaking Because back then we'd all we would have movies, but you don't have anything where you could actually hear them speaking and My my mother was playing. I think she was impersonating a Korean airline pilot So because what right back then in the states Asian is Asian, you know, she could pretend She's probably never it was and my dad happened to be watching the program with my mother's cousin In in or curse at the studio. No in York on TV. They're watching it on TV. Oh, okay All right, he's led to my mom's cousin. Oh, she's kind of hot and he goes though I know her I can introduce you and then tada Wow, yeah But you know, I mean I'll aside from the really entertaining fact that they got through media that you know the show that put them together That the movement of people historically, you know, this is the thing about um The crappy American history that people are built To learn is we don't really fully understand how the Asian Americans became What we are today, right? Like so why are some people from Taiwan on why are the some from Shanghai that went to taiwan or went to Hong Kong And you just explained it in your personal parent story Um, right and and what did that mean to you because then like you said you didn't grow up speaking Cantonese your mom you spoke Shanghainese at home partly but Not having that Chinese language did that Rob you of your cultural connection To your chineseness or did you feel that that wasn't you know, can you speak to the language issue? Well, I thought it was interesting because I was your oldest child So I went to a nursery school And then one day my mother got a call and they said she's wet her pants Come and get her because you can't be in the school if you wet your pants My mother got into the car with me and said, why did you do that? I know you know how to go to the bathroom and I said, yeah, I told her I had to go But she just kept looking at me and then um, she said what what exactly did you say when I said it I had told the woman in Shanghainese because as as a two-year-old You know, you don't think oh the different languages. I thought there's just a different way of saying things So apparently I said in English I need to go to and then I said bathroom in English I mean, I sorry I said I need to go to in English and then bathroom in in shanghainese So they didn't know what I was seeing and so then my parents said that because of that they didn't want me to get confused and because You know immigrants want their children to assimilate into their country into their new country to write So then they decided, okay, right. We're gonna only speak to her in English But it's interesting how that evolves right because our generation back then near that that big Capillai word assimilation it was the way to survive It was the way to show that we wouldn't be made fun of if we had you know Accents or a lack of understanding of marine culture and yet now the younger generation the next generation I should say Embrace like your you embrace that Chinese culture you instilled you made sure your parents your kids all learned Chinese well So is it because you're compensating for what you didn't have or you recognize obviously the need for it in today's world? Yeah, it's when I first came to Hong Kong and I started working and especially as a television presenter People used to say to me. Oh, it's too bad. You can't speak Cantonese because there would be so many more opportunities for you and They kept saying you should try to learn you should try to learn it I'm just I'm just not one of these people who are very good at languages My brother is amazing at different languages. He can pick it up very quickly. I'm just one of those people who can't So I figured we just insert that your brother is Daniel with people who don't know Just saying let's say my brother and everyone. Yes. So um, so he can pick up all these languages He did very very well. I mean I I did okay, but there were more opportunities and um, and I just said to my kids You know, I I think that if you try to Learn another language, it's going to make your world a lot bigger and as you know over time the world has become a lot bigger with travel and all this stuff and Just having that opportunity to be able to speak two languages You could do whatever you want, but you're going to have more opportunities of your bilingual Yeah, also, you know, I want to just add the word transnational in here because living in hong kong now As you know, the flow of mainland chinese coming over to has shifted the language Vibes here. Also, you see you're more Mandarin than Cantonese And so even in that sense within chinese culture, there is that that difference of language like okay So everybody needs to learn Mandarin now. It's not just Cantonese, you know The domestic helpers need to learn you do they have to speak english Cantonese and Mandarin and but it's just really fascinating How things are flowing and changing and shifting Yeah, and 25 30 years ago It people didn't like it when when you spoke putola All right, it has call They really didn't get and so because my father couldn't speak Cantonese One time he came over and I had something wrong with my light switch So he said okay, take me to the hardware store and um, and I'll get whatever part it is that you need So he walked in there and he said to the woman and putola I need whatever And she turns around and she says oh husband You talk to this china guy. I don't want to talk to him Like that and I thought thank god my father doesn't know what she's saying because He wouldn't it's so happy about it. Yeah, but she just completely ignored him But I think it's an it's an economic thing, right? I mean a lot of this stuff it's even for my kids too, right? I want them to have The ability to speak different languages because I would like them to have better economic opportunities It's the same as in Hong Kong people started realizing Oh, there's a lot of people coming in here and they're speaking putola. So we need to start at least Being able to provide whatever it is that they need and and or at least understand and and that kind of stuff So I think but it's a big sorry. Yeah I see I cut you off But how how does it make you feel when like you know going back to the u.s context and again the rise of these very narrow minded kind of right wing Conservatives who say go back to your country, you know when they feel like the ethnic minority is a threat to their stable white center, you know, does that make you feel like Things haven't really changed and you know, why is there still this ongoing perpetual? Foreigner kind of narrative going on in the states I could talk to you for hours about this because I'm very Disappointed with the way things are going in the state. I actually sat down with my father Before he passed away and we were kind of He had some friends that were living in In california where where he lives very nice area very well educated people The two aunties chinese were in their 80s sitting there waiting for the bus and the this guy walked by and spit on them This is during kind of the height of co-grid and said this is all your fault and and he was yelling and screaming at them and and My father and I were talking about it because it was in their little local newspaper about how how badly these women were Treated and my father said I know these people and these this is not the america that I came to He says when I first came to the states and then when we first moved to the west coast He said we saved money and we bought a house up in the berkeley hills. We were the only chinese In that neighborhood. He said everyone came and welcomed us and they were very interested He said okay, you know, there was a stereotypes. They asked us if we were running a laundry When I said I was an engineer. He thought I was a train engineer, you know, not an electric Oh, because you were a laborer came over for the gold rush Right traditionally a lot of the asians that first came over or the chinese that first Over to california, especially on the railroads. They were working in farms and and so then there was this new way of a people They came over like my parents Who'd come for school who came to study in the united states who were educated and had other types of jobs So he but they were very welcoming of maybe curious Not understanding but still welcoming and so for my father's day that you know, this is how it's turned out What 15 years now? He said it's such it's not the united states that your mother and I wanted to come to to to raise children in It's so sad to see them see that too to see that cycle when it's building up the the immigrant life Of the kind of all-american greatness or whatever that is And and seeing it shift and and come back around and and and actually reverse itself But you know, you remember that case. Well, there are several but with this older guy who was uh Assaulted, I don't know. Where was it san francisco? But anyway long story short, I see decided to move back to china He said i'm fed up with this country. This is just yeah, so yeah, it's just interesting to see the attitudes like your father Seeing the kind of the unfortunate consequences of where we're going today. So let's switch it back. Let's go back to asia and thinking about when we first moved over here You know, hong kong was a very fun place at the time, right? It was at the peak of kind of Globally and it was just so fun and there were opportunities everywhere and for us being asian american going back to that point Is that I feel like and and and you know Correct me if i'm wrong that we were almost like the exotic other in a sense that there weren't that many asian americans Here at the time And they treated us up with curiosity like okay, so we got away. I i got away with saying ridiculous things about tv Whereas a local chinese would they go oh, she's just the western side of her she can talk about sex Right, did you feel Yeah, no there were there were a lot of things that they just kind of rolled their eyes and thought oh well She's a foreigner. She doesn't understand fine. Whatever. We'll we'll let it we'll let it go, right? And then and then there was the other side of well, you know You really should learn a little bit of this whatever the culture is or whatever the language is And try to assimilate a bit more but you know when you go out when we first came here It was just partying you're right making money just partying so I can't care was like as I I made money and I could go out the king of partying how many times when you approached by some colonized british guy not colonized a colonizer british guy who came up to you and says oh your english is so good No, it used to happen all the time I used I was on the peak tram one time and these uh these southern women got onto the tram And then they kept commenting about how cold it was So I thought oh, I'll just and they were old ladies So I kind of leaned over and I said oh, don't worry once the train starts going the windows will close and it will Oh my god, your english is so And then it was like ethyl ethyl come over here. Listen say something And so then I said um, I said oh no, I I was born in the states That's why my english is so good and she said you're a little lucky for you and I thought huh Yes, how fortunate of you to be able to hurt to be american Yeah, and then back then thank you for that though Why are they like there are still people today who still have that kind of attitude Yeah, because they're they're not thinking outside the box They're only experiencing what they what they grew up where they haven't really traveled that much. They're not that worldly But I find that now it's a lot different There's a lot more people who are at least a bit more at least the ones that that kind of travel and At least want to come out here. I mean the ones that don't want to come out here and are not open to anything new, right? so um, but you know, I feel like There's like an invisibility of that Of of the idea of being asian-american in some places in asia What I mean is like, you know, so when I went to Shanghai to to screen my film not too long ago I went to NYU Shanghai. We just you know, it's an interesting international body of students who are half local match nationalist and half international and I spoke to some of the asian-americans there And they said that they're an invisible group because They're american but they're not quite american the locals see them They see their face as being chinese, but then they don't Recognize the difference. I mean or or they recognize the difference, but then they'll say okay so then you're american but then when it comes to job markets or Representing america they're not white americans. And so they're kind of like they slip into this funny category And it's just interesting to see that Invisibility. Yeah, my friends of that we used to call it the twilight zone. You weren't really chinese You weren't really western And where where do you fit in? So you just have to kind of carve a niche for yourself Um and having the language really really really makes a difference. So my kids, especially my oldest one They don't think he looks asian at all And uh, all of a sudden he starts speaking potomac or or Cantonese and they're going And uh, yeah Yeah, so and that that's the other thing. Um when when you see a westerner who speaks Really bad and chinese they go. Whoa, so good. And then if I think you just a knee hoe and then there's like, whoa Yeah, and then if I speak Cantonese, they're like, oh your accent's so horrible Although I could tell that you're shanghai needs and All this kind of stuff, you know, you're called at a different level than everybody else So it's a bit unfair also as well. So I don't know you just even with it you see it Well, why do you think do you think it's changed like since you've come to hong kong? When of course, you know, hong kong has been shifted in in in so many ways But in today's context of being asian-american in hong kong. How do you navigate it? How do you? You know, when you go to the local wet market and and talk to these local ladies like, how do you How do you make yourself seen I bring my son He's the one who goes to the wet markets and and bargains and things like that but Yeah, because it it goes back to the language again and you really do need to to speak the language I mean, there's some really really nice people and they've gotten to know me I live in the same place for a really long time. I go to these shops. They know who I am They they just kind of go, you know, there's the guai paul which is the the foreigner Well, let's talk about that term because will we say guai lo guai paul? So guai is the word ghost in chinese character paul is like lady, right? Do you find that derogatory? Do you find that just okay? It's just a term of endearment for people who don't speak chinese who are just, you know, foreigners or ladies It is it is what they use here. So you just get used to it I mean, I wouldn't really want to be called that all the time But what what can you do so and then you'll hear it all the time. It's just and people will say, oh That's that's not a good term. It's you know, it's it's not politically correct and and people go off What else am I supposed to say? Right? So and it's a very wide term. So you could be british You could be jamaican. You could whatever and you're still a guai paul So as long as you're not born and raised here Then you're a guai paul if you can sometimes you're very chinese. So we were talking last time I saw you That you had Rearranged your thumbs wrong because for some reason you thought he needed to the feng shui to be right And he went in and is like you're the best like completely the opposite direction And so there was some very deeply rooted chinese traditional thinking in your body And where does that come from and how do you navigate, you know, so how much are you chinese? How much are you american? Yeah, I think You take the best of both cultures. So I had Chinese parents didn't quite teach me that much but my grandparents did and they would they would say Okay, well you need to do this or or that but um, and then I have a father who was an engineer So he's very Kind of straight forward thinking he's like feng shui. No, that doesn't mean anything and then my mother who really believed in all that So, um, yeah, so what we were talking about was because my son is my second son Is born in the year of the dragon, which is not supposed to be a good year for him So he's I've made him wear this pendant And because why not right if it helps it helps And so that's what I'm going to take from from the chinese culture and then um, and then if he wears it, that's great but uh, you know might as well just kind of Increase the benefits of whatever is is going on. So if this is going to help him, sure I'll change his room around. I should have told him first Or he walked into the bedroom Well, that's a bit So, you know, so now you have you have three kids. They're biracial. They speak um multiple languages How what are your expectations of them navigating space because two out of three of them are in Hong Kong right now, right? So it's interesting to be them kind of having um, I've been educated here in an international school with a chinese You know slant and then going to the u.s for college and then coming back What do you how do you think they're going to navigate the life as multicultural people today with language? Well, I think that they they've already got a much better step up than I ever did So they because they can read and write. I mean reading and writing is also important for chinese and then um, and then being able to speak I I always said to them I don't mind whatever job that you're going to get But I really do want you to learn the language Because that will benefit you whether you're a hairdresser You'll be able to get more clients if you can if you can speak Different languages if you want to be a labor that's fine, too Or if you want to be a data science technician or whatever that is definitely going to help you So it was more about giving them that extra kind of boost and um, you know Statistically they say that it's better for children to learn languages when they're younger I started in and when I was at Berkeley and it was just too hard I had a full course load and I was trying to learn chinese and trying to read and write It was it was very very difficult. So that's why I wanted them to go straight into it So they were in a bilingual school and um, and Pretty full immersion bilingual immersion So um, then it was yeah, no, it's impressive and you know when I had dinner with you and your boys and you know They were able to order low in a you know local dive You know, that's where you feel pride because it's like hey My boys know how to navigate the space and you don't feel like an outsider because of the language So it goes back to that and I think it also goes back to how much effort we make but you know not to um Criticize people who don't have the language right because a lot of people don't have access to it Um In the states, you know, there is not that support system perhaps even if you want to you know, like my you know I want my son to learn more. There's nobody speaking to him in it. Is that an excuse? I don't know but I think the way the world is going in a way. We are all interconnected through You know virtual spaces and and global kind of there's there's no excuse to not learn But I think you pointed out some very important points about um language and its connection to culture So I think we want to leave it at that because we have time is up But um, it's just really fascinating and I think like you said we could go on forever and ever to think about the wonderful past in Hong Kong in the glory days and being kind of an outsider in a place that is Our culture and yet not and going back to the states and seeing it the other way too So we need to have more of these conversations and um really appreciate this is gloria wool Sharing her thoughts on just being kind of in between spaces and embracing both and being everything at the same time So thank you so much for your time gloria. Thank you