 Thank you everyone for joining today. Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy and as sane as can be expected. I know I'm trying to juggle taking care of my one and a half year old while working. So everyone's kind of got their own situation as I really appreciate everybody taking the time to discuss what is a really critical issue in the midst of the COVID-19 crisis. And that is the issue of housing stability and security. So we are really fortunate to be joined today by Diane Yantel, who is the president and CEO of the National Low-Income Housing Coalition. My name is Yulia Panfill. I am the director of the Future of Property Rights Program at New America. Our program looks at land, housing and property rights issues both domestically and internationally. And as everyone during this time we're trying to understand how we can best help in the crisis. And we're really lucky to be hosting Diane to tell everyone a little bit more about the current housing implications of COVID-19 and what is being done to address them. So Diane, welcome. First, let's start. If you could just in a few words tell our audience what does the National Low-Income Housing Coalition do? Sure, yeah. And thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. So at the National Low-Income Housing Coalition our work is about advancing federal policy solutions to ensure that the lowest income people have decent, safe, accessible and affordable homes. And that was a tremendous challenge before coronavirus and it's only worsening because of it. Sure. And if you could set the stage a bit, could you just describe in macro terms the current housing makeup or situation for most Americans? So broad numbers in terms of percentage of renters versus homeowners. The general percentage of income spent on rent or mortgage payments, approximately what average or median rent or mortgage payment looks like in the US. Any sort of broad picture that you could paint for us? Well, I'll paint the picture from our perspective which is the lowest income renters. So we focus on people who are at 30% or below area median income or below the poverty line. They're known as extremely low income. So these are families, for example, you might have two working families with two kids and together they're combined or two working parents with two kids and they're combined family income is less than $25,000 a year. Or it may be a single person with a disability who is relying on disability benefits and they are bringing in about $12,000 a year. So we're talking about people who are deeply poor and our research shows that for them, there is a shortage of seven million homes that are affordable and available to them across the country. So another way of saying that same number is for every 100 of the lowest income renters, there are just 36 homes that are affordable and available to them. So as a result of this severe shortage, we have about 8 million families who are extremely low income and they're paying at least half of their income towards rent each month. Many are paying much more, they're paying 60, 70, even 80% of their income towards rent just to keep a roof over their heads each month. And you can imagine that if you have such limited income to begin with and you're paying so much of it for your home, you're just one financial emergency, one unexpected expense away from not being able to pay the rent. And for many of these lowest income renters, of course, coronavirus and the financial fallout from it may be that financial emergency. And just to add too that there are also in our country about 550,000 people who don't have homes at all. They are experiencing homelessness, they're sleeping in shelters, they're sleeping in homeless encampments. And for them too, obviously the challenges that coronavirus presents are severe and urgent and unique. Absolutely, and let's jump into that and the kind of the impacts that coronavirus will have on these lower income renters, homeowners and homeless populations. Before we jump in, just a quick note, we will be taking audience Q&A. So if you have any questions, you can just drop them into the Q&A box at the bottom of your screen and we'll be taking those questions. I'll read out the questions for Diane at about the half hour mark. So turning to COVID-19, as we are seeing, you know, just this morning we saw numbers of skyrocketing unemployment claims, something like 3.3 million as jobs are being lost and hours are being cut due to COVID. How are you seeing this impacting housing stability for the populations that you work with? Sure, and there's a lot to say there. I'd start with the people whose needs are most dire and most urgent and that's people who are experiencing homelessness. So as I said, there's over half a million people who are sleeping in congregate shelters or they're sleeping in homeless encampments in tents. Some are sleeping in their cars or in RVs. And for any of those situations, the people who are experiencing homelessness are very high risk, both of getting very sick from the illness if they were to be exposed to it because many people who are experiencing homelessness are also experiencing some of the underlying health conditions that put them at real risk of severe illness and even death from the disease. They're also at risk of spreading the disease because of the nature of how one lives when they're homeless and if you're in an encampment or if you're in a shelter, you know, you're sleeping shoulder to shoulder among other high risk people. So there's tremendous needs there. We are in close touch with a number of homeless shelter providers and outreach workers across the country and they are facing like really overwhelming demands and challenges. Many of them, you know, they're frontline workers just like doctors and nurses are, but they don't have the equipment that other frontline workers, that some other frontline workers do, right? They don't have masks. They don't have hand sanitizer. They don't have gloves. They don't have the things that they need to keep themselves and others safe. So as a result, many of these shelter providers themselves are getting sick and they're not able to show up at work. Volunteers aren't able to show up at work. They're having a hard time keeping their doors open. We know of close to 20 shelters that have closed over the last week because they don't have the resources they need. They're certainly not able to take in more people in need. And they're also not able to, they don't have the resources or the ability to separate people for social distancing at the least or for isolation and quarantining when needed. So there's a tremendous set of needs there and we can talk about sort of how we meet those needs. But then also, as I said, when we have, you know, eight million deeply poor families who before coronavirus came to the country, were struggling to keep roofs over their heads. And now from the financial fallout, as you said, you know, they're losing hours, they're losing jobs or they're getting sick and losing hours as a result of that, now they can't pay the rent and the rent is due on April 1st. So there are, we have to ensure, especially in the midst of a public health emergency, right, when our collective health depends on our ability to stay home, we have to ensure one that we're housing people who are currently homeless and also that we are preventing any additional people from becoming homeless. And if we're not very careful and not providing the policies and the resources needed, we'll see a huge spike in homelessness in the coming months. Absolutely. And you know, there's the kind of famous statistic that something like 60% of Americans say they couldn't afford an unexpected $500 expense. And this, you know, rent and mortgage is usually more than that. So this would absolutely, as you said earlier, Diane, this would be the sort of economic shock that we could anticipate will put people over the edge and sort of out of their housing. Could you touch up for a moment on a particularly vulnerable group, which is seniors? So as we know, seniors are particularly vulnerable to the impact of COVID-19. There's also a large demographic of seniors living in poverty or without a stable income. Can you talk about the particular implications on seniors? Sure, I mean, as you say, seniors, we all know very well from the news that seniors are at very high risk from this illness and we have to be doing all that we can to protect them from any kind of exposure to the illness because if they get a chance or they're gonna get very, very sick and possibly die. The vast majority of people who are extremely low income, who are already struggling to pay the rent, they're either seniors, they're people with disabilities or they're people who are, have all of the underlying health conditions that come with living in poverty, right? They have asthma, they have obesity, they have diabetes, they have other chronic health conditions. So really the entire population of extremely low income renters are very vulnerable to this illness and certainly seniors most of all. In homeless shelters, there are a number of seniors, there are a number of seniors who are actually sleeping in tents on sidewalks as well and in homeless encampments. And right now, there's very little ability to keep them safe, to do all the things that we know are needed to keep them safe. And again, that comes back to the shelter providers and the outreach workers just not having the resources. For example, in a homeless shelter, if there are seniors in that shelter, they ought to be in separate rooms from everybody else just to be extra careful that they don't be exposed to the illness, but shelters don't, for the most part, they don't have the ability to do that or they should be put in hotel rooms again to be kept safer. There are also a number of subsidized housing developments across the country. Again, in many of them, in all of them, there is a significant segment of seniors living within them, but there are also some developments that are targeted directly for seniors only. So you have full apartment buildings that are subsidized by the federal government that are housing very poor and elderly tenants. They are too, so they have their own apartments for now that they're able to stay in, but those housing providers, for the most part, and especially the ones who are subsidized by the federal government, they don't have the resources they need to be doing all the deep cleaning that needs to happen in those buildings, again, to keep people safe. So you're right that seniors are really very vulnerable to this disease. There are things that we can be doing to keep them safer, but until now the resources have not been available to do that. So very little, unfortunately, has been done. Thanks, Diane. And I'm glad that you mentioned the need for not just housing, but for safe and adequate housing. So it's not enough to provide housing, particularly for seniors who are so susceptible to this illness. We have to make sure that it's adequate to meet their needs. Yeah. Well, and actually, if I could just Yeah, please. take me something for that too. That's absolutely right. The housing itself has to be healthy in order for people who are in that housing to remain healthy or get healthy. And that's another challenge that we have with our country's public housing stock. So we have about two million families that are living in public housing across the country. And again, before coronavirus even came, we have a tremendous challenge with repairing public housing and keeping it in good shape because we've had decades of disinvestment in the programs that are needed to actually repair those units. And so many public housing developments are in very poor shape and there's mold and there's many other issues that make those homes unhealthy and unsafe for the people who are living in them. Then you add coronavirus and the potential for contagion and people who maybe are exposed to coronavirus living in those units. And you can see just the challenges that we face. And you can see too just how short-sighted, right? All of our disinvestment, all of our lack of attention to the issues of homelessness and housing poverty and housing health and safety have led us to. These challenges that we face now are so tremendous. And if only we had recognized months or years ago how central housing is to our individual and our collective health, we'd be in a very different position. And so at least I hope that as a country, we learn that lesson from these challenges and we do things differently in the future. Absolutely. So I'm switching to kind of, we've painted a broad picture of why this is such a crisis. Diane, what is the federal government currently doing to try to address the fallout, the housing fallout of COVID-19? If you could touch on maybe some of the contents in the stimulus bill as well as any other solutions that are being put forward by the federal government. Yeah, so there's some relief there, thank goodness. And after like many, many long hours and incredible effort from people across the country to educate and pressure members of Congress to do something, they are starting to do something. So I think, first let me just briefly say what the policy solutions are. And then I can say what is being done so far. So from our view, of course, we're focusing initially on the most immediate and the most dire needs. And again, those are among people who are experiencing homelessness and cost burdened extremely low income renters. So what's needed there is there is a program called emergency solutions grants. These are flexible dollars that homeless shelter providers and outreach workers can use to meet all of the needs that I've talked about. And in the first two stimulus packages or spending packages, there was nothing for ESG or no resources whatsoever for homeless shelter providers or outreach workers. There's also a need, as I said, to keep extremely low income renters housed, make sure that we're not adding to the homeless population. And for that, what's most immediately needed is a moratorium on evictions and on foreclosures. Nobody should be at risk of or even worried about losing their home in the midst of a pandemic. And together with that, there has to be really substantial rental assistance provided so that low income renters aren't saddled with more debt at the end of this crisis and so that small landlords can continue to maintain and operate properties. So until this week, Congress had done nothing on any of these issues. But now in the current spending package that's about to pass the House tomorrow and probably be signed by the president tomorrow too, there are some really significant resources that will provide some immediate relief to communities. So there is $4 billion of funding for emergency shelter grants. Again, half of that money is required to get out to communities within 30 days. So that's gonna provide some really significant relief for the outreach workers and the shelter providers and for people experiencing homelessness. There is a somewhat limited moratorium on foreclosures and on evictions. And we can talk if it's helpful about what the distinctions are there. There's no specific rental assistance provided but there's some big pots of money that can be used for that purpose. So it's a very good important first step. This bill is just what's needed right now. There will be much more needed in the long term and Congress will pass certainly at least one, if not two more packages. And at that point they'll be focused on stimulating the economy. And that is when we will have an opportunity, I think, to get some resources for affordable housing construction and repair, which serves the dual purpose of stimulating the economy and getting people safely and affordably housed. So there is some relief happening now. It's a huge relief. I know to us at the coalition who have been hearing nonstop from the tremendous needs at the local level and especially a relief for our partners at the local level. But now we have to work with HUD to make sure that they get those dollars out quickly and effectively and to the resources, to the communities that need them most. And there's gonna be some challenges there too, frankly with this administration to get those dollars out as quickly as they're needed but we'll keep working on that. Great. Diane, coming back to one of the kind of measures that you had mentioned, which is a partial or a limited moratorium on evictions and foreclosures. So could you speak about that in a bit more detail? My understanding is that this is specifically for FHA-insured properties. So can you sort of break down the distinction for us? Who is covered? Who isn't covered? Yeah. It's broader than that now. And it's, you know, one of the challenges is that there's a piecemeal approach going on rather than a blanket uniform policy. So it's challenging right now to see where the gaps are and where the holes are and then to think about how to fill them. You know, we have pushed for it and what's most needed is really just a uniform blanket moratorium on evictions and foreclosures for everybody for the length of the pandemic. That's not what we have right now. One thing that we have at the state and local level is some real momentum to create or put into effect these type of moratorium. So last I checked and it changes by the hour. Last I checked, there were over a dozen states who had implemented some type of moratorium on evictions or foreclosures, sometimes both. And there were about two dozen cities and counties that have done the same. So for people who live in those communities, they have the assurances that they need. Of course, it doesn't help the people who don't. And it's not always clear who exactly those moratoriums cover. At the federal level, there are now moratoriums or a few different actions from the administration and now what will be in this supplemental bill that will be passed. Well, on the foreclosure side, there are moratoriums for borrowers who have mortgages that are backed by FHA, as you said, but also Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the VA and the USDA. That's a very broad swath of mortgages throughout the country. There are some estimates that it would cover 80 to 90% of home owners with mortgages. I can't verify those estimates. We're still running the numbers, but that's what some had estimated. Now, there's also, for many of these borrowers, if they also request forbearance, in other words, some relief from paying their mortgage payments, they have to commit to not evicting tenants that are in their properties, whether it's multi-family properties or single-family properties. So again, it requires an action by the borrower first for the tenant to have that security, but there could be a pretty wide swath of renters that are covered under this. There's also in the legislation that will be signed soon, a broad moratorium on evictions for any tenants in subsidized housing, whether that housing is subsidized by HUD, by USDA, or by the Treasury through the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit Program. So again, it's a little piecemeal. It's hard still to look at the full picture and see where the gaps are. There are certainly still gaps, but I'd say we're getting closer to pretty broad protections for renters and homeowners. The challenge is that, even as we have these moratoriums on evictions or forbearance for mortgage holders, is that, especially in the case of the evictions, we have to make sure that many of these small, sometimes mom-and-pop landlords can continue to maintain their properties and they can't do that if the rental income is not coming in, especially if that goes on for a long period of time. That's why rental assistance is so important to be paired with these moratoriums and we still don't have the resources we need to ensure that. We definitely wanna make sure that at the end of this, whenever it is, when we come out of this crisis, that we haven't lost some of the precious, little affordable housing stock that we have. So we have to protect the renters and we have to make sure that we're not losing the stock itself. Right, and that's a really interesting consideration. I think it's easy to vilify the landlords for evicting tenants, but at the same time, we have to make sure that, as you say, the landlords can also be paying their mortgage. So there's two things go hand in hand and I think that the policy that you described earlier of sort of making a commitment not to evict a condition of mortgage forbearance is a really clever one. So that's pretty unprecedented too, I would say that, in previous disasters, mostly hurricanes, other natural disasters, there's often moratoriums on foreclosures on federally backed mortgages. That's not unique. That's something I expected they would do this time and was glad when they did. Taking the next step on that forbearance piece and requiring a commitment not to evict tenants. FHFA went first on that just a few days ago and required that of mortgages backed by Fannie and Freddie and that's an unprecedented step. I don't think we've ever seen that after a disaster. Now the Congress's following suit, I think it's really a recognition of the magnitude of this disaster and the new creativity and willingness to go further than we've gone before to respond to it. So what else should the federal, and then after this we'll move to local very quickly and then finish up, but what else should the federal government be doing that they haven't done yet? So if you were to choose two or three of the most urgent priorities that lawmakers have not yet adequately addressed and should, what would they be? It's a great question. Well, on the one hand there's certainly good news around the funding that Congress is about to provide for emergency solutions grants of $4 billion. We're really pleased with that, but we know that the needs are much greater than that, that we worked with some very well-known and well-respected researchers, Dennis Colhane from the University of Pennsylvania and some of his colleagues. They did an analysis of how much money shelter providers and outreach workers will need to actually meet all, to keep people safe and keep people alive. And it's closer to $15 and a half billion. So there are some ways that we can get those additional resources from disaster funds, from FEMA, from state and local and other places, but Congress will need to provide more in order to really meet all of these needs. The rental assistance piece again is a very big one that so far is not being met. We're gonna need tens of billions of dollars from the federal government to meet those rental assistance needs for all the reasons that we talked about. And then there's also a number of challenges that subsidized housing providers will face in that you have people who own and operate subsidized housing. Again, similar to the outreach workers and the shelter providers, their staff are getting sick, they're having to telework, they're trying to figure out how to keep people housed with the limited staff time that they have. And so there are some waivers that are gonna be required. There's gonna be a lot of creative thinking that we need to do together with Congress, with HUD, with our partners there to make sure that these owners are also able to continue to operate their programs so that the very low income people that live within them stay housed through the crisis as well. Okay, great. Diane, you had mentioned earlier that there are, at least a dozen local states that have passed moratoriums on evictions and foreclosures and there are other local efforts that are pretty forward thinking and creative in dealing with the housing fallout of this crisis. Are there any local efforts that you would like to highlight as particularly effective or innovative? Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of amazing creativity and innovation going on, despite or maybe because of the challenges and the pressure they create. It's hard to name just one because we have so many incredible partners at the local level, some in Connecticut, some in California, some in Seattle, in New York and some of the real hotspots where coronavirus is spreading fastest and creating the biggest whisper of these very vulnerable people where they are in different cases pulling together private resources, foundation resources, sometimes state and local resources to fill the gap that the federal government has left and do what they need to do. So for example, in California, there's this amazing group called Destination Home that's run by Jen Loving in Santa Clara. They've been incredibly creative and worked together with Cisco that provided them with, I think it was $10 million to quickly create a rental assistance program to get people who are in homeless encampments or in shelters into apartments. And they've been working really fast to do that. It's incredibly effective. I think within 15 hours of the announcement, they had received almost 2,000 applications. So it shows both the creativity and the public-private partnerships that are happening and the overwhelming demand that can't possibly be met by the private sector or the philanthropic sector. Also in Connecticut, in California, in Washington, they're recognizing that many of the hotels are increasingly vacant for all the obvious reasons. And are creating some partnerships and some contracts with these hotels in order to move people from shelters or encampments into hotel rooms for all the reasons that we talked about. So that's been helpful and creative as well. And on the eviction and moratorium side, too, there's been some really strong leadership in many cities in California, at the state of Indiana, the state of New Jersey. There's really a long list that have stepped forward early to recognize the need to provide assurance to people that they won't lose their homes during this crisis. And so in different ways have created these moratoriums. It's interesting too, sometimes the moratoriums are coming from the state level. The governor is mandating these moratoriums. In other cases, city councils are passing similar kind of policies. In some cases, it's the sheriff's associations who were saying, we're not going to enforce evictions because we recognize that people should stay housed. All of this really much needed leadership that hopefully will trickle up to the federal government to show similar leadership with the uniform policy. Diane, I wanna ask about the actual delivery and implementation of these really innovative solutions. So as we know in this country, only approximately one in four household who is eligible for housing assistance actually gets it for a multitude of reasons. So there's a delivery problem, there's an access problem, there's an awareness problem, even in sort of air quotes, normal times. So how do we make sure that the aid that's being offered through both the federal and the state and local packages and at those levels is actually getting to people and that they know how to take advantage of it? Yeah, it's an interesting question. I'd say that the challenges that we face, as you said, in better times before coronavirus, we have a system in our country where it's a housing lottery system and only one in every four households, as you said, gets any assistance and 75% of the people who need assistance that are eligible for it get none. That's not a delivery problem. That's a resources problem. The only reason why that is the case is because the federal government is not funding the solutions at the scale necessary to end homelessness and housing poverty. We have a pretty efficient delivery system in our country, both for housing assistance through public housing agencies and private owners and through the homeless assistance system. They are very skilled people who do this work and the challenge that they face is simply not having the resources from the federal government to do more. So I'm sure with this level of fast ESG dollars getting out that there might be some bumps in some communities, but in most communities, they are eager and ready to get those resources and put them to good work. And in the case of the way Congress has out, it will be allocating most of these dollars. These pots of money is about half of each pot will immediately or within 30 days, that's immediate for the federal government will immediately go out under existing formulas. So there's not a lot of work that needs to get done there. It just goes through the system to the providers who are ready to receive it and put it to work. And then the rest of it will require and allow for even a little bit more targeting of those resources to communities that are maybe have the highest level of unsheltered populations or the greatest risk of transmission of COVID-19 or a combination of both. So the delivery system is there and is ready. And the challenge is getting Congress to write the check. So now that they will, I'm confident that in most communities, these dollars will be put to work very quickly. That's wonderful and encouraging to hear. So on that note, why don't we turn it over to some Q&A and I'm just looking through the questions. And actually let's start with this one that I think is really interesting and kind of nuanced question. The question is, how is the current COVID-19 situation helping us rethink our approach or the way that we look at vulnerable populations and how is it making dire circumstances more relatable? So often this person is writing, often our incredible vulnerable neighbors are stigmatized and judged. How is this situation serving as sort of an equalizer and making their circumstances more relatable? I don't know. I think time will tell, right? I think it's too soon to say. I think in some cases we're seeing the stigmatism actually increase. I talked earlier about some of the hotels that are contracting with city or states to house, temporarily house people who are homeless. We've seen, I know of cases of hotel owners who once they learned that it was a homeless person who was gonna be living or staying in that hotel room, they canceled the contract. And there's been in some communities, I think really increased rhetoric that's harmful to people who are homeless because of a fear of spreading the illness. On the other hand, I think for sure everybody or I hope that everybody is recognizing in a very personal way how interconnected we are and how much my health in my community, my family's health depends on the health of everybody in our community. And that if we're not housing everybody, we're not going to be able to contain this disease. I think that people are starting to recognize that and wake up to that. Certainly we've been talking for a long time that housing is healthcare. And I think this moment really brings that home and forces us to feel that in a very personal way. I hope that that then translates to a willingness to do more in the future. The other thing I think that is really laid bare by this crisis are the massive holes in our social safety net and how deliberate public policies led us to this shredded social safety net. And again, where that leaves us now, I think more and more people are feeling the worry about their paycheck and their ability to keep a roof over their heads. And that too, I hope translates into a willingness to do more once we come out of this crisis to fix the social safety net, to end homelessness because we can, we choose not to, we have chosen not to up until now. So that if we face a pandemic in our country again, we're not in this situation again. And for all of the other reasons we should have been doing this for months and for years. But it is, for sure, it's a teachable moment. It's a moment where all of us, I think, feel things that we've talked about or maybe never understood much more personally and directly. But I think it's much too soon to say what that means and how that translates to future change. I'm a very optimistic person, generally. And I have to say in that case, I don't feel very optimistic at the moment that we will learn the lessons we need to. But I'm determined to try to get us to. So speaking of stigmatized populations, another question is asking about prisoners who are being released due to COVID-19. How are those prisoners' housing needs being addressed? They're not. That's a great question. And that's another one. That's something, that's a need that existed before COVID-19 is just that much more acute now. It's something that we have been working on for a long time when we talk about repairing or reforming our criminal justice system to ensure that when people who are currently incarcerated are able to go back to their communities, that there are homes that are affordable to them. We know through a lot of research that recidivism rates skyrocket when people don't have a safe home to return to for obvious reasons, right? And that becomes just that much more challenging now as we're looking at some communities recognizing that tremendous risk for people in jails and prisons from COVID-19 and are starting to think about letting people out of jails and prisons, which we should, it just makes that much more urgent that we're providing resources to communities to maintain and create new housing that can accommodate all the people that need it to stay housed. And that goes to the next spending package because there will be at least one more and Congress is already coming up with their list and the staff are already starting to write it up. Producing affordable housing will be very needed for this reason, right? If we're talking about really releasing people from jails and prisons at a significant rate, again, as we should, we need to be building affordable homes for them to stay in. And that the construction of these affordable homes also has the benefit of stimulating the economy. So it's a win-win and we'll certainly push for that. Similarly, funding to repair public housing has a similar effect in both ways and something that we'll be pushing for through a stimulus package. Absolutely. This question is from Joan Service at the Arizona Housing Coalition. First, she thanks you for your advocacy, Diane. Hi, Gail. And her question is while we wait for Congress to pass a stimulus package and thanks to the work of the National Low Income Housing Coalition, there's adequate support, Joan is saying, for folks facing housing insecurity and homelessness in Arizona. In Arizona, she's mentioning the legislature just passed an aid package as well that supports federal funds but can't supplant the federal investment. So her question is, what are your suggestions on how to braid these resources together? Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it becomes a little bit easier now that we know what resources are coming from the federal government so local communities can start planning and should start planning right away to know that, for example, within 30 days, communities that get under the existing formula money through the emergency solutions grants, another $2 billion will be going out within 30 days for those same purposes. And similar with CDBG, very quickly about $2 billion will be going out to communities who already receive it through the same formula. So now you have something of an idea of new resources, new federal resources that will be coming to your community within a month. And I think you should start to plan and strategize for how, if at the state and local level, there are resources on the table, how these federal resources will be used in tandem so that we're meeting all of the needs that exist. Diane, another question related to local efforts. Have you seen any examples of grassroots organizing to demand that local or state officials pass more or take more proactive measures to increase housing security during COVID-19? Yeah, especially around eviction moratoriums. I think there's been some tremendous organizing. Some of the eviction moratoriums at state and local level came pretty quickly and came I think directly from the leadership of policymakers who saw the challenges ahead and just went ahead and implemented them. Others are absolutely a result of a lot of pressure that policymakers are feeling from renters in their communities that are demanding action from them. So there's definitely been a lot of important and effective organizing and advocacy that's pushing the policymakers to implement some of these solutions. This question is related to Wall Street and this idea that Wall Street and many shareholders pose challenges with regard to social policies that are perceived to have a negative impact on the market. Do you have any thoughts on any efforts that are underway to re-educate Wall Street or shareholders? I'm not sure I get the question. To re-educate Wall Street and shareholders about... My guess is about sort of why it's important to support social policies that are traditionally perceived to have a negative impact on the market. Well, I think in the way that we always have, I think there are partnerships to be had in some cases with Wall Street or with big banks or with landlords. There are places where we can find agreement and we do and in those cases, we push forward, create these partnerships and create new solutions. In other cases, I think like I was saying earlier, I think maybe this kind of moment in time teaches us the damage done to markets when there are such tremendous challenges for low income people who suddenly can't pay their bills in any ways. I think certainly the housing industry is recognizing and feeling very concerned about the number of mortgages that won't be paid and what that means for their bottom line. And so maybe that inspires people to join us towards solutions. But and in many cases, we won't agree because we have different outlooks and we have different goals in mind. And that's where organizing and advocacy and pressure through the media and through direct actions even, get us to the results that we need. The question is about the sort of what people can do to protect themselves. So the question is, we're seeing in the news that evictions are continuing despite the talk about moratoriums. So what can everyday renters and also homeowners be doing to best protect themselves from losing their homes? Are there rights or resources that they should know that they have, for example? Yeah, and it's a great question and it's hard to do nowadays, right? Because not only things are changing so quickly, but just the news in general is so overwhelming and there's so much to try to absorb. It's hard to sift through it all and know what impacts you directly and what you need to do related to that. So that's one of the things we've been working to do at the National Loan Come Housing Coalition. So we have what's called a Disaster Housing Recovery Coalition. This is a group that we convened after Hurricane Harvey about two and a half years ago and it's grown since that time. It's now about 850 organizations nationally and together we work towards equitable and complete recoveries for the lowest income people from disasters. So we've mobilized, we've been working now for about two and a half weeks related to coronavirus and we'll be working for the duration in all ways to assure this equitable and just recovery for the lowest income people from this disaster of coronavirus. One of the ways that we do that is on our website which is nlihc.org, that stands for National Loan Come Housing Coalition. We have a page on coronavirus resources and what we put there is the information that's relevant to housing and homelessness. So we keep an ongoing list of all of the moratoriums that we know of at the state and the local level for evictions and foreclosures, all of the resources that we know that are available, all of the guidance that's coming out from HUD and from FEMA and from CDC that's relevant to housing and homelessness. And we're doing that with the hope that it helps sort of turn down the noise of this tremendous news moment and provides easily the information that's most relevant to low income renters or to the people who serve them. So for a renter who's wondering if they're covered by any of these moratoriums which is a really fair question and kind of hard to answer because it's such a patchwork of solutions, I'd really urge you to go to our website and see if in your community there is a moratorium on evictions or on foreclosures or other resources that might be available to you. We've also been doing weekly calls. Monday will be our third national calls that everybody is invited to join. You can find the information, how to do that on our website as well. And that's where we hear from people in communities across the country and share information about what's happening at the federal level, both to share resources for individuals and local organizations that are most relevant right now but also to inform our advocacy at the federal level. I'd really love to kind of just underscore the usefulness of the National Low Income Housing Coalition website and some of the resources that you guys have been putting out. I know that in preparing for this conversation, I perused the website and found the resources to be really straightforward and helpful. So I would really encourage everyone tuning in to check out the website and also the national calls which are recorded. So I wanna take this opportunity to actually ask a moderator's prerogative ask my own question, which is about how to get some of these great resources out to vulnerable communities who may not have internet access, for example, or who might be stuck inside their homes. What is the best way, and this is the question that we received earlier from a local group, trying to make sure that it, as you said, gets this patchwork of information out to vulnerable renters. What are the best strategies for those who aren't online? Well, I think there's a lot, yeah, especially not being online now is a particular challenge because so many people are required to stay home, including outreach workers and others who are usually in daily, at least touch with some really low income people. I'd say look in most communities, there are some really strong organizing groups that are led by impacted people, that are led by people who are homeless or that are low income renters themselves. A lot of really powerful groups out there that are already doing this work that could use your support, I'd say. So to think about connecting with the groups that already exist and in whatever ways you can, finding ways to amplify their work and support their work and increase their capacity to do the work. Same with shelter providers, I'd say, find the ones that are doing the work in your community and find out from them what they most need to be able to keep doing what they're doing and do more and then provide that. Great, so I'm just going to ask one last question. The question is, there has historically been a shortage of rental units in the housing stock even prior to the pandemic. And I'll add that, in particular, that's true of affordable rental units. And now there are stories highlighting situations where a single individual, for example, is leasing multiple units and then subletting them on Airbnb. Can you speak to the impact of this phenomenon on some of the housing fallout of COVID-19? And I'll just add a little bit to that and say, are the Airbnb renter or landlord community, are there any ways that they could be helpful in this situation? Well, sure, they could be helpful. I mean, if there are units that are vacant that could be used, for example, to house somebody who is homeless or about to lose their home, that would be tremendously helpful that's needed in many communities. I think that, I think there's good actors and bad actors in many segments of the economy, including in the housing economy. And there are places where we have to make sure whether it's at the local, state or national level that nobody is trying to or actually benefiting or profiting from the challenges that low income renters are facing right now and people who are homeless right now. And that includes ensuring that there are, there's no rent gouging going on. After many disasters, there are often local anti-price gouging policies put into place, exorbitantly raising the rent because there's a disaster happening right now and there's more demand for your unit is price gouging and it should be prohibited. Also, we should be ensuring that there are not some unscrupulous landlords, which are not all landlords, but there certainly are some that are taking advantage of the chaos and the urgency to evict people so that they can raise rents in their units. These are things that are happening and we have to do more to ensure that it doesn't. But also, you said something about the construction, I think, or it made me think about construction of affordable housing, which is also, things are gonna get really tough, things are gonna get worse before they get better and the fallout might last for some time and that's because in communities like, say, California, where there's already such a severe shortage of apartments, period, whether they're affordable to low income people or not, there's just not enough homes for people to live in and in some communities, the construction of housing that's in the pipeline or underway is starting to be halted and I'm pretty sure soon if things continue on the trajectory we're in, all of it will be. This means more shortages down the line and more challenges for the lowest income renters. So the ripple effects of this disaster and of both the way we're needing to respond to it now and the financial fallout from it will last for a long time and I think will really require of us even more dedicated advocacy, broader coalitions calling for the solutions and more direct work supporting local organizing organizers who are building the power that we need to get to the change that we want. Well, thank you so much, Diane. With that, I'd like to finish today's webinar. I wanted to mention that we will be hosting another webinar in the next week and a half or so with some local perspectives from housing leaders in Indianapolis, Winston Salem and Phoenix. So please look out for an announcement about that sort of part two webinar. In the meantime, I really would love to thank you, Diane, for taking the time. I know that you have been incredibly busy advocating for these solutions with Congress and all over the country. So we're really fortunate to have you. And yeah, thanks so much. I hope everyone has a great rest of your day. Stay safe and healthy.