 Yes, so Ding E, as you can see in this example of his painting from 2016, hit upon the motif of a cross. Well, actually the motif of the cross, it could be this way, it could be an X shape, it also includes lines, dots, all these geometric forms. He hit upon that in the late 1980s when he was working in the evenings. During the daytime, obviously at art school, he had to do the courses he was assigned to do, and he and his friends were experimenting in the evenings. And so from around the early 1990s, he kind of hit upon this idiom as his way of doing something that no one had ever really done before. I think it's right that the motif itself is meant to be without meaning. It's not meant to mean plus or times, or in Chinese a plus means sh, means ten, it's not meant to mean ten, it's just a mark. So you could say it is iconology without iconography. In other words, it's an icon or a form that doesn't have a symbolic meaning. And so instead, you are forced to, if you want to derive meaning from it, to derive meaning from the way that it's depicted, the use of the media. So for example, here you see lots of different layers. The artist has cut through multiple layers of paint to create these banked-up different colours. So it goes from white to black to green, and then you can see the wood medium at the bottom. And so you can look at it at a local level, or you can step right back and you can see big patterns emerging in this kind of constant shifting associations that we bring to this, because we don't have any anchors in meaning as such, so the mind plays. And that really is the joy and the excitement of looking at Dingy's work, this motif so simple, yet extraordinarily complex.